I have a couple of issues I need input on:

My sister called yesterday and told me (with her doctor's permission) she had stopped taking all her medications. She took a variety of meds including 60 mg Prozac & 30 mg Adderall for clinical depression, self-cutting, OCD, anxiety, and (Dx: August 2006) inattentive ADD.

Since September she's been seeing a therapist who practices a form of therapy called DNMS (Developmental Needs Meeting Strategy (http://imagoconnection.com/emdr.htm)), a form of therapy that believes that unmet childhood needs (inadequate parenting, abuse, neglect, etc.) can retard normal neurological development and cause the adult problems through dissociation, anxiety, OCD, etc. The therapist uses "resources" within the patient to "go back" and meet a past unmet need in the patient's mind and "unstick" that neurological moment of childhood.

My sister is doing so well with this therapy that she no longer feels the need for medication. Good. Hopefully the tools she is learning will enable her to remain medicine free. She never liked the idea of taking medicine in the first place.

Now the input part:

While I was talking to my sister about all this, I felt threatened and anxious. I'm not sure why. I am happy for her. She sounds better.

So why am I uneasy about all this? Is it threatening my identity as an ADDer? Did I like knowing she was more screwed up than me? Now she's OK and I'm struggling? I don't think it's jealousy though. I think it's threatening my ADD paradigm and the security of knowing who I am (or at least thinking I know).

Does my reaction resonate with anyone else?

SL :confused:

Although I have not felt this way about my ADD, I have been guilty of being jealous because my siblings didn't get dyslexia as a side kick. I was the only "lucky one" and yes I felt cheated because I was the more screwed up one with the learning disability who couldn't spell cat out of a sack.

a form of therapy that believes that unmet childhood needs (inadequate parenting, abuse, neglect, etc.) can retard normal neurological development and cause the adult problems through dissociation, anxiety, OCD, etc. The therapist uses "resources" within the patient to "go back" and meet a past unmet need in the patient's mind and "unstick" that neurological moment of childhood.

Despite my shared feeling of sibling jealous I am unsure how you will feel about my next statement. . . . .

The therapist is full of small read ants (or crap) which ever you prefer.

May I please direct your attention to the following quote from this thread (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16810)

Etiologies- Genetic ( these data were all derived from research studies) The usual maker for statistical significance is 1.5 SD (standard deviation) 's from the mean, which equates to a %tile ranking of 93. In other words, the absolute lowest chance of these data being accurate is 93%.

1) Family aggregation of the disorder: 25-35% of siblings; 78-92% of identical twins;15-20% of mothers, and 25-30% of fathers; If the parent is ADHD, then theres a 20-54% chance of the offspring being ADHD (increases the odds 8fold)

2) Twin studies of Heritability 57-97%)

3) Shared environment 0-6% (not significant)

4) Unique environment (15-20% )


Molecular Genetics : Candidate genes on DRD4,DAT1,DBH-Taq1 (on chromosomes 3,5,and 11)

Candidate region: chromosome 26p13 region

If one person in a pair of identical twins has ADD the chances are over 50% that the other one will too even if the other twin was reared in a separate house by different parents. These identical twins separated at birth were a lot more like to both have ADD than fraternal twins (who do not have identical chromosomes) that were reared in the same home by the same parents. Meaning that the home environment may influence the expression of the ADD traits it is by no means the cause of it.

I would not be jealous by your sister being conned into an illusion. The improvements can be a placebo effect or the result her increased awareness of these traits.

According to my mother I was hyper active in the womb. She said I kicked and squirmed so much she thought she was giving birth to a soccer player. My mother did not drink, smoke or do drugs, I was not born prematurely nor was I under weight but I am ADHD I was born that way.

OK, Gut reaction here, may or may not be based on your reality. Ready?

Since she's your sister, were you raised together by the same parents? Is it possible that when she talks about "unmet needs" that you realize you had some childhood needs that were never met as well?

Whether or not those needs have anything to do with ADD or anything else, even just talking about childhood needs can cause some people to feel anxious or depressed. Even feeling "threatened" isn't a stretch, if it's things that weren't all that good that happened in your own childhood that you were remembering.

mead,

You may be right about my sister's therapist being full of crap and the placebo effect. To be fair: the therapist knew my sister was on meds and never objected, never tried to get her off of them; in fact, I think she knows my sister's psychiatrist and worked with him (?).

The thing is I would never have thought my sister had ADD. Depression, anxiety, OCD: yes, yes, yes. When she told me last summer she was on Adderall and had been diagnosed with inattentive ADD by her psychiatrist, I was surprised. She has a house, two kids, a busy soccor-mom schedule, PTA/Girl Scouts sort of life (all which would depress me -- sorry in advance :o), but she has a husband who is organized a stabilizing factor also.

So maybe she doesn't have ADD like I do. Adderall did help her focus but it did cause her insomnia (which it doesn't me).

At least for the moment my sister's found a tool that helps her focus on positive internal "resources" instead of using her harmful or wasteful coping methods.

meadd, I can't argue the data. We'll see where my sister is several months from now. I know she does not have the same ADD symptoms I have.
_________________________

DianaS,

Your hypothesis may be spot on -- I don't know. My sister is very focused (obsessed) with the past and with guilt, which I'm not. Am I in denial? Maybe.

When we talked yesterday, I felt threatened/anxious when she told me she was off all her meds. I knew from other conversations she was dealing with the past (or perceptions of it) and that her relationship with our mother was a big issue for her. None of those conversations bothered me, but her getting off the meds did.

Thanks both of you for raising good issues and for making think through my feelings.

SL :)

When we talked yesterday, I felt threatened/anxious when she told me she was off all her meds. I knew from other conversations she was dealing with the past (or perceptions of it) and that her relationship with our mother was a big issue for her. None of those conversations bothered me, but her getting off the meds did.

Do you think you felt threatened because she may, in the near future, strongly suggest that YOU should stop taking your meds? And then you will feel defensive about your taking meds, and you'd rather not have to feel DEFENSIVE with your own SISTER. ?????

Also, maybe you feel as if you are finally "figuring out" what your struggles are all about - and now with your sister telling you about how she's DITCHED all of her meds (which are similar to yours) and is onto the "REAL ANSWER" - well, the thought of THAT being what you soon will discover you need to do seems really overwhelming.

For some reason, I don't give a big fooey what my siblings are doing for their mental health issues. They seem TOO INTENT on selling THEIR issues and answers to me and the rest of the world. I just smile and nod (but let it fly right out the window).

We're all trying our best to be our best. Whatever path your sister is on doesn't indicate that it should be your path too. What is your relationship like with this sister?

Good luck to you, SolarLife.

Sincerely,

Sue

Sue,

You're very insightful.

The first point, no; I've been too head strong and have no problem disagreeing with my sister.

Your second point is more pertinent and it had come to mind. After years of searching and stressing; coping and failing; I've found a paradigm that explains my behavior (or lack thereof) and through this acceptance I feel I can go forth and adapt myself to the contingencies of life.

So, yes, I think she rocked my existential world. That's why I questioned her ADD Dx in the first place: if she doesn't have ADD then there is no threat, or she's fooling herself, her therapist is inept, and she'll soon realize you can't cheat neurological destiny.

Excellent, analysis, Sue. Cheapest therapy I've ever had! :rolleyes:

My sister and and I am modestly close. I've realized recently I know far less about her than I had thought. I'm (in most cases) an open book, while she is more quiet and retincent.

I've been candid with her about my feelings of threat and my concern for her off the meds, but as supportive as possible despite my sceptism and unease. I think our genetic link also made the threat more real.

I do wish her the best but know I'm on the right track despite a moment of panicked doubt.

Thanks so much for helping me confirm what's going on,

SL :)

SL -

YOU MADE MY DAY :D when you posted that you found my 2 cents confirming. THANK YOU for finding my input RELEVANT!! :) I've been questioning my own sanity this week. :confused:

Sue

SL -

YOU MADE MY DAY :D when you posted that you found my 2 cents confirming. THANK YOU for finding my input RELEVANT!! :) I've been questioning my own sanity this week. :confused:

SueSue,

Don't sell yourself short. You helped me put things in perspective.

Thank you,

SL :)

... or perhaps (apologies if already mentioned) - the idea of an intruder poking their magnifying glass on the intimacy of your early years - looking (perhaps with over zealous abandon) to throw darkness on some of your sunny memories - her desire to find problems and to say 'I told you so' - more than her desire to help.
She hasn't factored in the idea that she may be doing more harm than good - by sullying previously fond memories.
I'm afraid that I'm with Tammy here - I don't like this idea - I've heard it mentioned quite some - but do not believe that there are a couple of plugs which have been placed into our rrreality models by a couple of events - which can be removed by recollection of the events - magically dissolving away all of the anxiety and depression in one short tug.
I do however feel that the reason for {anxiety, depression} is individual - and relates to being something which our real self does not want.
We need to let go of the expectations and find out what the real guy on the inside wants - it sure ain't a Mercedes Benz.

the idea of an intruder poking their magnifying glass on the intimacy of your early years - looking (perhaps with over zealous abandon) to throw darkness on some of your sunny memories - her desire to find problems and to say 'I told you so' - more than her desire to help....

I do however feel that the reason for {anxiety, depression} is individual - and relates to being something which our real self does not want.
We need to let go of the expectations and find out what the real guy on the inside wants - it sure ain't a Mercedes Benz.
SB, I love the way you put this. So true.

SB,
My guy on the inside wouldn't mind a Mercedes Benz! :D

SolarLife,
Only time will tell whether re-visiting old skeletons from her closet will benefit her or not!

Most people understandably find it cathartic to talk about their past. Bringing one's past troubles to consciousness and affording them expression is often very therapeutic. Especially with the anxiety and depression related problems from one's past.

I would imagine that confronting one's anxiety and depression symptoms could impact the severity of one's ADD too.

However, at some point most ADDers realize that confronting the past does nothing for the constant barrage of new stresses in an ADDers life.

I mean, it's almost like saying if you have a brain tumor (ADD) and you often get headaches (anxiety) and your vision is impaired (depression) that if I give you an aspirin for your headaches (anxiety) and glasses for your impaired vision (depression) then you will no longer have a brain tumor (ADD)!!

There is no doubt that treating one's symptoms will help with one's overall mental status, but it's hardly a cure for the root cause of the symptoms.

I spent years treating only the symptoms of my ADD and it got me nowhere. Now days I put all my effort into treating my ADD and thankfully most of my symptoms have subsided.

As for the anxiety that you feel?? We often spend so many years keeping those skeletons locked a way, that when someone threatens to let our own skeletons out, we naturally start to panic! :)

Take care my friend! :)

:-)
... it's an issue which becomes more apparent to me by the day - it's the way in which our feelings - mostly negative are rationalized (how we address why we're having them) in our own heads.
It's not possible to just evaporate away debilitating negative thoughts.
Think positively - works for a while and then the resolve weakens and we're back in trouble.
Depression, anxiety - an epidemic of our times.
There's clearly something wrong with ?something? in order for there to be such widespread problems - in an age when one would have thought we've advanced sufficiently, to carve an environment around us which is happyhappyhappyogenic.

Instead no.

I believe that we've shaped our own pattern of evolution - towards mind - that our mind has developed - an actual process of evolution - and that the consequence of developing such powerful minds - is that they crave 'action' :-)

Charon - in a threadIlost - you mentioned the pleasantness of feelings of ADD thought (not wanting to come out of hyperfocus).

***That's it - that's it - exactly.***
Please hold onto that thought - mention and re-mention it.

It's the sign of the link between mental and emotional centres which leads to all the bad stuff (anxiety etc) - but also can lead to the good stuff (EXACTLY) as you describe.
It's the basis for us to turn around the epidemic - but people need to know how good those feelings are.
They are the very antithesis of the bad stuff.

Because they are the very antithesis of the bad stuff.

Honestly - the importance of your observation must not be underestimated.

Imagine that the pattern of neurotransmission when in the throes of ADD thought - full on non-linear multithreaded thought - lighting up our minds like a Christmas tree - that's your (our) own very personal proof of the prime directive.

The prime directive is merely that the [mind,brain] defines itself by the need to fire.
There's more - an explanation of all of this going back to the lonely pre-Cambrian worm (the first nervous system) ... (incidentally - all in threads in section::Science {here}) ...

...whoops - and my point, I guess...

... is that understand our relationship to our mind - what has defined the development of mind - and one sees that all of the pain which conscious mind dumps on the more ancient emotional centres of the brain - can be seen for what it is ...

- essentially - as - nothing more than the mind screaming 'I need to work' ... which is where all the bad stuff comes in
- the mind doesn't particularly care if we feel good

-it only cares about action.

:-)

remember the helicopter scene from the Matrix?

remember the speech Agent Smith delivered to Morpheus?

... about the need to redo the Matrix reinstating suffering ... because the utopic artificial reality had failed ...

what does the average chappy think about when he's hsppy?
Nothing much.
Why do the majority of great creative leaps get torn from the minds of the mentally precarious?
Reshaping rrreality to balance something unbalanced within them.

Occasionally - the truly great creative expression will reshape a single rrreality - prior to colouring the realities of all.

... about the need to redo the Matrix reinstating suffering ... because the utopic artificial reality had failed ...
***the 'academic' reality (however) would have worked ... ***

silly little nasty virtual artificial intelligence-based web agents.
silly silly them.

Just before incurring the wrath of Solar :-) ... try just one thing for me - better in Summer --- try to engage hyperfocus whilst sitting with forehead facing the sun (eyes pointing down).
Music playing - perhaps (it works - maybe helps).

Only one other mention of this on the forum (which I have seen thus far) - but -
~well~ imagine those feelings amplified *vastly* ...

... I really am not exaggerating ...

... was waiting for someone to post on that very subject - 'the positive feelings whilst in non-linear thought' - before expanding on this idea ...

... explanation-wise ... returning to your observation on Indian communities - check out the idea of the third eye (Shiva) - and what happened when Shiva's consort placed her hands over his normal two eyes.

There's more of a scientific explanation to the idea - but that particular story from Hinduism - is kinda' more fun - and makes the point sufficiently ...

http://images.exoticindiaart.com/madhuban/dg66.jpg

Shiva and his consort

Is that Melanoma on the consorts elbows! LOL :D

Is that Melanoma on the consorts elbows! LOL :DShe should really get that checked!

Hey, wait a minute; can't a guy steal a cheap graphic without some lame *** remark :mad:!

She looks a little bit like Lucille Ball and why is Shiva so blue? :(

SL :)

They would have made both of them blue, but indigo was just to expensive!

dude I and dude II
(aka dudes)

... it ain't no photograph
... but ain't she a picture?

:-)

Dude I & II :-)

I got your back SB...love the avatar...

http://image.wetpaint.com/wiki/solarlife/image/2vV$ZWUmYXfYpBBt1Xhcg$Q==86889

Your hypothesis may be spot on -- I don't know. My sister is very focused (obsessed) with the past and with guilt, which I'm not. Am I in denial? Maybe.

Solar thank you for taking my rather direct impression so gracefully.

We so often look at the negatives of ADD and poor “working memory” or ease of becoming distracted but some of the sooo often over looked positives I have found with my ADD was that poor working memory meant I didn’t remember to hold a grudge. My tendency to be impulsively honest tends to get the matter right out in the open rapidly ready or not. My ease at being distracted means I don’t obsess for very long (an hour at the most), then I rarely remember to re-obsess later because I am too busy with the world in front of me to dig up the past. When the past is over in my world it is over. . .it is often referred to as being a prisoner of the present . . .some how this is seen as an all bad thing?




She looks a little bit like Lucille Ball and why is Shiva so blue?

Blue such as the blues, blue eyes cryin in the rain, the third eye is to make her “color” normal again, the third eye doesn’t need the other two for vision. The area called the third eye is also a pressure point. Touch slowing and gently it can be useful for eliminating head aches, tension and anxiety. Hit hard with rapid deliverance of pressure can knock a person off their feet. Ever been hit there with a base ball? I have knocked me to the ground, boy did I have a head ache.

An interesting twist I learned while studying martial arts and pressure points at the same time, The ones I was taught to striker with sudden force to harm were the same as the ones that can heal when pressure is applied more gradually beginning with a light touch,. I found it very interesting that the “pressure points” of harm or healing were the same but weather or not the other person suffered or experienced relief depended upon how the pressure is applied. I believe emotions are the same way as pressure points damage can be inflicted or health can be restored depending on how the pressure is applied!



https://www.healthforums.com/images/tools/acupressure/acupressurechart2.pdf

http://www.dimmakworld.com/ (darn thing refuses to hyperlink right)

Firstly, which points to attack. These points include but are not limited to what we in the west refer to as pressure points. The basis of selecting these points are based on the ancient medical theories used in traditional Acupuncture and Chinese medicine.
***End Quote

A guy that does TirgerStrike.com says the same thing. . . these guys made a killing by figuring out the same thing I did by reading a book and taking a class.

This is really scary when I know that I know some thing only to find out exactly how true it really is.

I noticed independently that I was being taught the same pressure points in martial arts that I began reading about when I got curious about acupressure. I go to make my point here by looking for the two charts this guys just comes out and says it. Any time I find out that some thing I instinctively know is like way true it always surprises me. . .silly as that is.

Some really cool third eye stuff.


http://www.crystalinks.com/thirdeyepineal.html

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7204/thethirdeyenz6.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thethirdeyenz6.jpg)



The original point and click was designed by Smith and Wesson

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2192/sexy089ov6.gif (http://imageshack.us)


:p :p :p

I am toooo tired to be posting!

... black and white with a solitary object in colour - you've noticed the pattern under my new style ...
that image -
across the board - yumm! ... :-) ...
10 10 10 10 10

...~...

-the chakras as established sites for endocrine glands
-the pain Tammy described - similar to the pain of another chakra - the solar plexus - and the groin.
-as Tams mentions 'the “pressure points” of harm or healing were the same'
-the key sites of Chinese and Indian medicine - martial arts, acupuncture and the Hindu chakras - converging
-emotion instigated from the exact same anatomical locations - pain or pleasure - 'the “pressure points” of harm or healing were the same'
-anxiety - butterflies in the stomach - another emotion - felt in one of the core chakra points
-the rich neural plexus within that region

... now ...

How about?

- the time-scale for the evolution of man - defined by the chakras (as landmarks) from the closest to the ground as we stand ... ... .... uppawards.

...remembering that man has changed our longitudinal axis during our transit from bug onwards.

These chakras represent richly innervated areas to signify their importance (yes - still now) - but as we ascend - each higher chakra - 'trumping' - the lower sites.

... 'trumping' - *though* needs qualification.

The rich neural networks around the chakras - an explanation of Tammys' observations.

Happiness naturally defined at each stage by 'action' at that site - though not lost as we ascend through time - and evolution - and higher (vertically) - chakras emerge.

As a new chakra emerged - the meaning of life for that new species - electricity surging through the neurones inhabiting that site.

The chakras:

{crown - head}
{third eye - forehead}
{throat}
{chest}
{solar plexus}
{groin}
{between the genitals and the anus}

ana ...
is this the link between your comment ...?...
'7th wave (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=314826&postcount=347)'
{chakra number}
~and~
-the abstraction layer which we now occupy ...
... each layer representing a cycle of ...
[1] 3->4->13(1')

Yes.
It's absolutely what I was referring to.


ana ...
is this the link between your comment ...?...
'7th wave (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=314826&postcount=347)'
{chakra number}
~and~
-the abstraction layer which we now occupy ...
... each layer representing a cycle of ...
[1] 3->4->13(1')

:-)
thanks
:-)

Solar thank you for taking my rather direct impression so gracefully.

We so often look at the negatives of ADD and poor “working memory” or ease of becoming distracted but some of the sooo often over looked positives I have found with my ADD was that poor working memory meant I didn’t remember to hold a grudge. My tendency to be impulsively honest tends to get the matter right out in the open rapidly ready or not. My ease at being distracted means I don’t obsess for very long (an hour at the most), then I rarely remember to re-obsess later because I am too busy with the world in front of me to dig up the past. When the past is over in my world it is over. . .it is often referred to as being a prisoner of the present . . .some how this is seen as an all bad thing?I like the way you phrased this, and it reflects very much my own experience. I'm coming to realize that prior to spending time on this forum and reading and learning so much, I suffered from a lot of anxiety not living up to a paradigm that I should not aspire to. That the linear thinking of non-Adders is not my way of processing information; that the organizational techniques, the conversational, the one-track thinking; is not my way.

So much of my unhappiness has been in trying to think (behave, feel, act...) like a non-Adder. I can see something -- an idea, a global picture of a thing with great speed and without knowing how I know it or grasped it (can't readily give you the logical steps); yet other times I can listen to someone tell me something and not remember or understand it two minutes later.

I, as an Adder, need to learn to transform my language to match my way of processing information. The language game I was born into conflicts with the hardware I was given.

I think the intellectual & poetic tools Adders have at their disposal can help them come to peace with their uniqueness in a world still dominated by linear thinking. We have nothing to apologize or feel bad for. We think differently, we do things differently, we're late or hyper-on time, we jump around from subject to subject, we can't remember our home phone number, but we can remember the something visual with near photo recall; we quickly get mad when distracted but quickly forgive and forget when wronged; we cry easily and laugh heartily. We want a world where work is secondary to play and discovery; and art and life are lived now.

meadd, I took no offense to your query because I agreed with question and felt kinship in your response.

I've not responded to SB_Uk and others yet because I'm still thinking about their perspectives (they have not fallen on a deaf ear); but it's funny how in good ADD fashion that original post seems like some one else wrote it. In way someone else did. I've spent my life measuring myself by non-Add standards and my sister (not with malice or ill intent) in a back handed way said "your not normal and now I am."

Tomorrow I'm going to see a therapist (not my psychiatrist) to talk about what's been happening to me since I started my ADD Tx. When I asked the therapist what his psychological model(s) was, he said he did postmodern therapy (also called Narrative Therapy). I started to laugh when he told me. I think it's perfect. Perfect for Adder especially. What's important are the stories (narratives) we tell (and re-tell) that make us who we are. As Adders we sought treatment to become "normal" and some achieve a degree of normality; yet for some normal never comes because it isn't something we understand nor should understand. When I first took Adderall I thought I had discovered the Holy Grail; yet for all the good it is doing for me, it's not made me normal or organized or disciplines. I've discovered (an discovering) (I have SB_UK especially to thank) that I am who I am and that I will not be happy by denying that I am an ADDer. Forever must be gone guilt, regret, sadness for being different.

Yes, a sink of dirty dishes needs washing but it ain't the end of the world if it isn't today.

SL :)

... remarkable - your speed in catching - and reflecting these ideas back to us - I took m-u-c-h longer ...

... evidence - that you have it all - see it all - knew it all ...
{wasn't enough time to alter your rrreality}

... if anything - just the slightest of perspective changes ...
... nonADDer society kinda' does that to us ...

... ... ... and the reason why the forum is going to prove just a little bit special to the humble ADDer ... ... ... is exactly that ...

... the self-affirmation from being freed from the constraints of nonADDer boxes - into free flowing ADDer thought ...

... "torch on" - I believe is the phrase - something tells me that you've a soon-to-be-realised desire - to soar ... :-) ...

... remarkable - your speed in catching - and reflecting these ideas back to us - I took m-u-c-h longer ...

... evidence - that you have it all - see it all - knew it all ...
{wasn't enough time to alter your rrreality}

... if anything - just the slightest of perspective changes ...
... nonADDer society kinda' does that to us ...

... ... ... and the reason why the forum is going to prove just a little bit special to the humble ADDer ... ... ... is exactly that ...

... the self-affirmation from being freed from the constraints of nonADDer boxes - into free flowing ADDer thought ...

... "torch on" - I believe is the phrase - something tells me that you've a soon-to-be-realised desire - to soar ... :-) ...
SB ---> I mean it when I said that you helped (are helping) me to see. THANK YOU. So many on this forum have helped me, but your way, your différance has challenged me to look outside the box--> which is to look within and sing a new song.

In early September you replied to a positive post I had made, but one that still reflected my desire to be 'normal': the butterfly post (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=332036&postcount=4). As I cursorily looked back on that thread, I failed to acknowledge your post. I didn't understand it. It excited me because it was pregnant with promise and meaning I didn't grasp. I knew you meant something significant. But I was sharing how normal I was becoming and you were talking about butterflies with NASA images and metamorphorsis! Your post seem hyperbolic despite the success. Not to denigrate those who followed with great advice, but your post hit nail on the head: it didn't focus on how to be more normal but how to be more ME, and to watch out. (Quite frankly, although your post intrigued me, I thought you were a little daft :-) )

It's amazing how that post now mean so much.

I would never have started this thread today, yet such palimpsests can be revealing too. This thread bore fruit, not what I expected but good fruit nontheless.

Indebted,

SL :)

http://www.smtechnologie.com/logitheque/uploads/photos/1216.jpg
... ...

That's fantastic (no pun intended)!

A little thank you from me:

http://image.wetpaint.com/wiki/solarlife/image/20+Vokb+2nYF1d7ImVWnH$w==15939/GW148H150

SL :)

Aww how sweet. . . . .

oh I am saupposted to be posting. . . .oops! I am supposed to be making coffee toooooooo.



We want a world where work is secondary to play and discovery; and art and life are lived now.

I do not live to work; I work to live. . . it is a necessary thing should I desire to keep a roof over my head and a computer in front of my face. . . . .oh and some food stuff too. . . .have you every heard of a dying man say he wished he had spent more time at the office?





I suffered from a lot of anxiety not living up to a paradigm that I should not aspire to.

Some times the anxiety will interfere more with our lives than the ADD, besides if we refuse to see and accept our selfves as we are how can we see others and accept others as they are. Just as there are positives to off-set the negatives of having ADD there are negatives of off-set the positives of not being ADD. Each person has his or her own strengths and weakness. . . .one of my weakness happen to be being about five to seven minutes late to every thing. . . .including work however I don’t call in very often I work hard when I get there and stay late if necessary to get my job done instead of leaving it for some one else to do. I have stayed late to help some one else who got behind. . . .even though I was caught up on my own work.

See the late thing is a negative but I have more positives than negatives. I don’t focus on the five minutes late I focus on the doing a good job. . .besides because I tend to run late and be scattered I do not get mad when my supervisors run late or become scattered. . . I have been pulled to another division thirty minutes after getting started a more timely person would have been up set. . . my attitude works in their favor tooooo. . . . .

Trying to be some one your not creates the anxiety because the conflict is within self. You knew all along you could not be non-ADD (thus on time) yet you were trying to be a non-ADDEr which isn’t possible. Accepting myself as being an ADDer with time issues (that I do my best to keep in check) means I can acknowledge the time issues as just that, a problem with time. Because I don’t see myself as being a rotten person because I am five minutes late more often than I am on time, I have the energy to play into my strengths and that is using all this hyperactivity to doing the job I am being paid to do. . . .


Some places make a huge deal out of the five minutes late thing I do not work for these kinds of people. See acknowledging my tardiness allows me to see it for what it really is. . . I can also see my positive sides. I am active and like moving about so I don’t mind doing some work while I move about. . . .I work for employers whose focus is in line with my own thus I do not set myself up for failure by attempting to work for people who are going to fire me for being five minutes late even if I am the best employee they have. . . I go for companies who’s main desire is to have the work done and done well with a decent attitude . . those that are more likely to over look my chronic tardyness . . . . .a decent attitude is a strength and working hard is a strength for me. . . .time is a weakness. I know this and allow for it when seeking employment, thus I decrease my chances of failing not by wearing rose colored glasses and denying my problems but by accepting my strengths as well as my weaknesses.

Reality for me is accepting and even embracing my ADD. . . . I can’t change being ADD I can only change my attitude about being ADD! Attitude can change perspective which can change how we make decisions and no the world will not end if the dishes don’t get done tonight . . . . in reality the worse thing that will happen is the reproduction process than seems to go on when these things are left unattended over night in a sink. . . scientist have studied this phenomenon for decades to no avail . . . . . this is why I use disposable dishes or two pieces of bread and a paper towel when possible . . . . . .




I failed to acknowledge your post. I didn't understand it. It excited me because it was pregnant with promise and meaning I didn't grasp. I knew you meant something significant. But I was sharing how normal I was becoming and you were talking about butterflies with NASA images and metamorphosis! Your post seem hyperbolic despite the success. Not to denigrate those who followed with great advice, but your post hit nail on the head: it didn't focus on how to be more normal but how to be more ME, and to watch out. (Quite frankly, although your post intrigued me, I thought you were a little daft :-) )

You have hit the nail on the head as well. One of SB’s gift is being able to sound like he is talking insanity when he is making a point but it works in a very strange way for me any way. . like when his words are first read they leave a wtf . . . some how as time moves on his words stick when all others have faded and one day when my consciousness is busy doing some thing else my sub consciousness pops out an answer. . . once a part of it is grasp the rest falls into place. . .I have had to say oops more than once in open post. Some times I still make the mistake of attempting to over analyze SB when I know that isn’t the way to figure his post out. . . .I gotta play move with the visuals some times I have to wiggle about then the meaning will come clear. SB has always been so patent with me. . .never making me feel like an idiot. .which I appreciate . . . . not making the slow to snap feel daft is another wonderful SB plus! ;)

I once asked Stabile - paraphrasing - if it's possible to express one self without realising 'what' one is trying to express.
In all seriousness - I think I know the answer.
Trust me - you explain my posts to me - by offering your own interpretation over them.

Not only that - but you seem to have this uncanny knack of telling me where to look next.

I'm often struck by this - it's really quite amazing.

Remember (apo)ferritin (a recent example) - and here - your jump into pressure points - perfect.
The number of examples I could find - is quite bewildering.

I'm left wondering whether communication for adders occurs only when the adder learns to let go and allow the 'whispers' to bubble to the surface - without heed to the small-minded linear conscious guy who's skulking in the corner ...

... his delusions of grandeur nearly over.

Remember the Wizard of Oz - when the curtain is pulled back.

'Communication is bilateral'
- from Tom and Kay (Stabile) ...

... perhaps making the point that just as the Universe expands into non-space - so rrreality expands when affirmed by communication between two or more people.

It's remarkable - the image of reality shaping as we delve into our own minds for unrealised whispers.

Whispers - the voice on the inside - one hears - one doesn't understand.
One listens.
One speaks.
One shapes the idea in communication with another.

a shift in rrreality.

One of the skills which adders have - mapping rrrealities.

It's the essential skill for the debater or peace-maker ...
... understand that the mind of another isn't yours - and shape communication to the individual.

It's kinda' funny but if you say tommaytoes and I say tomartoes - then we run the risk of never discussing our mutual allergies to fruit and veg :-) ... and why? ... a long time back :-) ... histamine [mediator of the allergic response and the n/t of the waking state ... ... ... forum thread::metamind ...
... incidentally - also an example of you leading me to the next area for scrutiny ...

:-)

I'm left wondering whether communication for adders occurs only when the adder learns to let go and allow the 'whispers' to bubble to the surface - without heed to the small-minded linear conscious guy who's skulking in the corner ...

Letting go - almost as if you had read a PM I sent to Nova earlier saying that letting go of the physical realm has been a truly expanding journey for me. The "woulda", "coulda" and "shoulda's' and "gotta have", "gotta be" and "if only"are all part the physical realm of preconceived notions that live in a little black box that I simply do not fit into very well. I tried to fit in there like society told me I should but I simply suck at sitting still. . . couldn't do the box thing had to wiggle-LOL!!

I began to live when I let go of what I thought every one else thought I should be. . . . and began accepting my own thinking as right for me. I began discovering a world beyond myself. . . letting go freed me from my own prison.

Being free from the box myself allows me to accept others as they are, where they are. . . I do not have any boxes in which I place people (I lost them some where along the way) people they are as they are meant to be.

I have been accused of many things because of the way I am but then again most of those who throw stones at me are themselves living in glass houses that allow them to see just beyond the top of the little black box but because they are afraid to let go they refuse to leave their glass house, they are in a sense stuck by their own fear of them selves but project their anger at me because I refuse to live where they do. . . I am glad to have such great company that like me refused to move back into the box. . . . dodging rocks in great company is much better than throwing stones alone!

I have great respect for you SB and your response means a lot to me, thank you!

meadd & SB,

Wonderful replies as always.

Life is so damn short and too short to waste on boxes and programs and all the crap we're expected to perform because that's what productive members of society do.

I love the functional amnesia of ADD. I love the many "experiments" of living I lived because of my ADD. Theory is so boring. History such a drag. Let's rewrite history, rewrite our life story with a shift of perspective, a shift of tone. Let's create new metaphors and bury the dead words, words that imprison, words that kill.

Thank you both for helping rewrite my story.

SL :)

ive never been one for been in a box or anything eles mind you i find that doing what other went ofve us is there quickset way to unhappnesss an doing what sercity wents an doing the what ifs an maybes in the end is were you hold your self acontable for what you do an think iam glade madda that youve become more content wint in your life love to know more ofve your jenorny that you going on could be helpfull to others inn the forums in the end we must leren that. TO BE HAPPY WE NEED TO LOVE OUR SELFS DORM

ive never been one for been in a box or anything eles mind you i find that doing what other went ofve us is there quickset way to unhappnesss an doing what sercity wents an doing the what ifs an maybes in the end is were you hold your self acontable for what you do an think iam glade madda that youve become more content wint in your life love to know more ofve your jenorny that you going on could be helpfull to others inn the forums in the end we must leren that. TO BE HAPPY WE NEED TO LOVE OUR SELFS DORMDorm, You said it! Thanks for that. Love the new avatar, BTW. I'm green with envy :D. SL :)