i am mostly wondering about how amphetamines stimulate the body but methylphenidate works too

but what causes you to feel the stimulation?
is it due to the increased dopamine?
or due to...?


i know this is really pointles sto know but im curious, (i love my ADD meds i have been so much more willing to learn since being on them and i am supprised how well my body is taking the Barr XR pills compared to the Barr IR tablets i think i am allergic to the tatrazac (the dye they put in it)

... the two drugs aren't really so different - and for sure they affect your levels of dopamine ...
... just wondering though - why do you feel it's pointless to ask these questions?
Is it that you suspect - that absolute solutions do not exist to these questions?

Was just reading this morning in Brown's "attention-deficit disorder" that methlyn inhibits the uptake of dopamine. In other words, the dopamine your brain produces sticks around longer so your brain synapses can get more work out of it. It doesn't actually stimulate dopamine production, it can only make the most of what you're already producing. For people who don't produce much dopamine to start with, the cognitive improvement can be significant but limited.

Amphetamines do the same thing, but with an additional effect, which is that it actually stimulates the brain to produce more dopamine as well as making it stick around longer.

Amphetamine makes the dopamine (and norepinephrine) transporter work in reverse.

So methylphenidate will prevent the dopamine normally released into the synapse from being pulled out via uptake through the transporters. Amphetamine flips a cellular switch that causes reverse uptake:

http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020078

no i was wondering more along the lines of WHAT CAUSES the stimulation not HOW AMPHETAMINE WORKS but is the stimulation we feel increased heart rate, decreased appetite and the general feeling of stimuli its hard to explain but any adder knows what im talking about what accounts for the stimuli but what causes the feeling of the stimuli


let me try once more in a clearer way:

why do we feel the feeling of being stimulated (its more profound when you first start takign the meds and for me ESPECIALLY when i first took the amphetamien based drugs) the body buzz that one might feel the first day or two, or the 'feeling' of the stimulants working, its it due to increased dopamine and the dopamine causes the increased heart rate, eye dialations, decreased appetite, and general stimuli feeling?

i dont want to know how amphetamiens work to increase dopamine or why they work in adders i want to know what causes the

--------------------

the reason i ask is because i stopped taking dexedrine for a month or so and when i took it again i felt that feeling of stimuli and wanted to know why i felt that

its that same feeling that usually goes away but can sometimes stay around but it wont be as profound as the first few days you take it but anyway i was wondering what causes you to get that feeling of stimuli all ive read just states amphetamine binds to X causing the body to get stimulated, or amphetamine stimulates the CNS it doesnt say what accounts for the stimulation is it due to the higher dopamine levels that makes you FEEL stimulated? what causes the stimuli is it something else


hopefulyl that didnt confuse anyone shall i explain more?

let me add this short thing:

what causes the alertness (how does that help out? what causes you to become alert, more awake, and stimulated) is it because of the increased dopamine.

Are you feeling physically stimulated ('hyper') on stimulants? Is that your question?

Are you feeling physically stimulated ('hyper') on stimulants? Is that your question?yes mostly accually i guess thinking about it, it is yes what causes the hyperness, and alertness, the increase in energy the physical stimuli!! i found the word the physical stimuli (i had a hard time trying to say that earlier thanks for thehelp)

... is your question more aimed at the idea - I'm shifting to another paradigm completely here - why person A can feel real pleasure from task B and hate task C - whereas person D might adore task C and hate task B.
To delve a bit deeper - why people feel anything.
Is the question more - why do we have all of those nice feelings when stimulated? Why aren't the feelings negative or neutral?

It's more than just accomplishing more in linear world ...

hmm... no its more along the lines of what causes the physical stimulation. (the increased heart rate, dialated pupils, the energy, alertness, decreased appetite)

i know the feelings you get when you take amphetamines is due to dopamine increases

i want to know if amphetamine happenes to bind to another receptor to cause the physical stimuli
or if
amphetamine causes an increase in another chemical along with dopamine that causes the physical stimuli of alertness awakness increased heart rate
or if dopamine is whats responsible for the alertness wakefulness suppressed appetite increased heart rate

Ah, I see the question now...Amphetamine (and methylphenidate) also raise the levels of norepinephrine. Epinephrine is closely related to dopamine, and is sometimes known by its old name: nor-adrenaline. The two of them together tend to have similar effects, just that some are more prevalent in different regions, but they both use the same uptake sites and norepinephine can be derived from dopamine.

So the "stimulation" is the combined effects of the increases in dopamine and norepinephrine in certain regions of the brain and in the peripheral nervous system.

These chemicals are involved in many different processes in many different regions of the body and brain. The "physical" stimulation that you mention is probably due to the effects of higher levels of dopamine and noradrenaline in the peripheral nervous system. In this case the important factor is where the dopamine and norepinephrine are binding.

The main reason why they work differently in ADDers appears to be due, at least in part, to observations that ADDers have abnormally high densities of the dopamine uptake sites in certain regions of the frontal lobe and prefrontal cortex of their brains. Since ADHD medications affect these transporters, the chemicals will be more likely to affect this region compared to others. So where they are binding in people with ADHD is very different compared to those without. These regions also appear to be very active in non-ADHD persons when they are performing executive-function tasks such as those involving focused attention, decision-making, prioritizing, etc, that ADHD persons consistenly have serious difficulty performing. Now surprisingly, the brains of ADHD people have been shown not to really light up at all when these tasks are performed. This strongly implies that at least some part of ADHD behavior and cognition are due to excess uptake of the catecholamine neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine from the synapic channels in key frontal and prefrontal regions of the brain, as a result of the overabundance of uptake transporters. When amphetamine and methylphenidate are administered, they block of reverse some of the excess uptake, removing one of the actual physical stumbing-blocks of ADHD.

This tends to have a seemingly paradoxical effect (but not truly paradoxical for complex reasons), where the regulatory effects of this region of the brain act to limit a lot of the hyperactivity and impulsivity, thus appearing to make the individual less stimulated. In other words, their stimulatory effect is overshadowed by the lowering of unnaturally high levels of stimulation.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14624805&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16091862&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16894328&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9680049&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_docsum



Also different possible issues involving dopamine and norepinephrine with ADHD:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10450262&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_docsum

wow, thanks alot for the info i figured that dopamine or seretonin or NE might somehow be the key factor, i didnt know about the adrenaline thing though, thats nice info thanks alot! you really helped me out!

Hyperion, thx for the explanation & links.

Quick question... the way I understand it, some people naturally don't produce much dopamine. ADD'ers use the dopamine they have too quickly. If you're both... an ADD'er that doesn't produce normal amounts of dopamine to begin with, AND go thru it too quickly, would there be any way to know that you're in that category? Or is that too simplistic?

What you're talking about is the COMT gene. I made a very indepth post about it over here.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32999