Quite unexpectedly I found myself in a debate with my husband about the subject of 'focus'. (Friendly debate, I assure you.) The source of the debate came from Dr. Brown's comment in "Attention Deficit Deficiency" , where he says: 'Often people think of "focus as holding a camera still and adjusting the lens for a clear picture of an unmoving object.' And then he talks about focus actually being a constant readjustment and reevaluating of what's important in a task like driving--focusing on driving actually involves not only keeping in mind the destination, route, and arrival time, but checking mirrors, speed, monitors, position of other cars, constant adjustments to speed and direction.... in other words, his point seems to be that focus for a specific 'task' often requires orchestration of several changing parameters, requiring a competent 'conductor', i.e., executive functions.

My (very literally minded) husband commented on Dr. Brown's camera analogy as something that 'never happens in real life' (sort of like when a physics problem starts with object of mass A is moving along at speed B on a frictionless surface.... a what surface? You've just taken it out of the realm of real life, even if there was a reason to it.) While not dis-sing Dr. Brown, he felt that this was a case of extreme oversimplification to the point that no one would ever really think of focus that way, that Dr. Brown was setting up an obvious fallacy to demonstrate an argument against. He of course followed this up with the point that Einstein did the same thing to demonstrate a point, so he wasn't saying it was intellectually dishonest... he was just saying it wasn't an example out of real life.

Well, folks...:D

That is exactly how I've always thought of focus, as a very narrow unwavering attention to ONE clear goal or item, and holding that static relationship. Like a spyglass or spotlight clearly and unmovingly in clear view. So Dr. Brown's comments on the complex nature of focus were very helpful to me, demonstrating the ongoing monitoring necessary in many everyday tasks that most people take for granted.

This puzzled my husband no end, and after awhile he said, "it must be an ADD thing. Maybe it was a good illustration to use if he was writing to ADD'ers, and they would understand it." Now, them's fighting words. ;)

Seriously....
Does anyone else have an opinion on this? I realize it's just a word definition, but I feel like if I understood the debate I might know more about why my focus (and hyperfocus) seems so different from other people's. I speculated that for me, one 'task' as defined by a non-ADD'er might appear to me to be a group of multiple 'tasks' that needed to be individually concentrated on and completed because of the ADD, and that our differences re: focus might come from that.

When you think of focus, do you think of it like the narrow spotlight on an unmoving target, or more like the athlete thinking, 'focus, focus' while he vividly sequences the several steps in his next event in his mind? Or something else entirely?

Words are important, and time spent making sure you have a common understanding of words is time well spent. And since focus and attention are so tightly linked this is really a good issue for us. And then there is hyperfocus.

Yes, the dictionary definition is more like focusing a camera. But things that involve living organisms aren’t that static. Driving is a multi-tasking process involved in getting from A to B safely. So you can say that a single, narrow, unwavering, focus on the single task of driving actually encompasses all those other things.

Or a cat in the bushes getting ready to pounce. That’s pretty serious focus, but there is the continuous adjustment of balance, tensing of muscles, judging the prey’s position and attention, finding the absolutely best moment.

One of my most tightly focused tasks recently involved installing a new microwave/range hood on a Sunday afternoon. I knew I needed to get it done or we wouldn’t have a kitchen all week. There were several steps, involving removing the old one, moving the hole in the wall for the exhaust (studs in the way), modifying and reinventing ductwork, modest rewiring, removing then reinstalling cabinets, etc. I really got focused. Missed the supper that was going on 15 feet away. Toward the end I was aware of being watched by my teenage kids who were coaching me to slow down, breath, eat, stretch. Afterwards they said my monomaniacal focus was “pretty weird”.

So: I consider both that, and the cat hunting, to be very tightly focused activities. Narrow spotlight. But they are multitasking at the same time. Which means my conception of focus, when applied human activities, is not the same as focus when applied to a camera (unless you consider autofocus and a moving camera?).

I hadn’t thought about it, but I guess I’m ok with two senses of the word. It’s the sense of attention that is being described, regardless of if the object of the attention is static or not.

(But I’m still not OK with multiple meanings of “procrastination” because they lump very different motive forces and intentions. Am I too focused on that?)

(It sure would be neat to be able to take other peoples minds out for a test-drive – I get the sense that you have something a little different going on: pick up the spoon, put it in the pot, stir as three separate tasks rather than the single task – stir the soup?)

~finite period of time in our lives
~constantly making decisions on our next choice of 'task'
~those decisions are made by 'behind the scene' processes
~focus ->- when we're engaged in the task which our subconscious processes have lead us to

if we want to do the task - hyperfocus
if we don't - no focus

... so focus as either there - or not there -

"there" - when we've been lead to choose a task which we want to do - where want is not defined by the conscious mind 'wanting' ...

... focus as the description of our attention being trained on a task which has been chosen for us by our subconscious weighing sales.

focus == attention ...?...

... noting that ADDers have a closer association between wanting
"where want is not defined by the conscious mind 'wanting' ..."
and
attention
{or
focus}

Quite unexpectedly I found myself in a debate with my husband about the subject of 'focus'. (Friendly debate, I assure you.) The source of the debate came from Dr. Brown's comment in "Attention Deficit Deficiency" , where he says:And then he talks about focus actually being a constant readjustment and reevaluating of what's important in a task like driving--focusing on driving actually involves not only keeping in mind the destination, route, and arrival time, but checking mirrors, speed, monitors, position of other cars, constant adjustments to speed and direction.... in other words, his point seems to be that focus for a specific 'task' often requires orchestration of several changing parameters, requiring a competent 'conductor', i.e., executive functions.

My (very literally minded) husband commented on Dr. Brown's camera analogy as something that 'never happens in real life' (sort of like when a physics problem starts with object of mass A is moving along at speed B on a frictionless surface.... a what surface? You've just taken it out of the realm of real life, even if there was a reason to it.) While not dis-sing Dr. Brown, he felt that this was a case of extreme oversimplification to the point that no one would ever really think of focus that way, that Dr. Brown was setting up an obvious fallacy to demonstrate an argument against. He of course followed this up with the point that Einstein did the same thing to demonstrate a point, so he wasn't saying it was intellectually dishonest... he was just saying it wasn't an example out of real life.

Well, folks...:D

That is exactly how I've always thought of focus, as a very narrow unwavering attention to ONE clear goal or item, and holding that static relationship. Like a spyglass or spotlight clearly and unmovingly in clear view. So Dr. Brown's comments on the complex nature of focus were very helpful to me, demonstrating the ongoing monitoring necessary in many everyday tasks that most people take for granted.

This puzzled my husband no end, and after awhile he said, "it must be an ADD thing. Maybe it was a good illustration to use if he was writing to ADD'ers, and they would understand it." Now, them's fighting words. ;)

Seriously....
Does anyone else have an opinion on this? I realize it's just a word definition, but I feel like if I understood the debate I might know more about why my focus (and hyperfocus) seems so different from other people's. I speculated that for me, one 'task' as defined by a non-ADD'er might appear to me to be a group of multiple 'tasks' that needed to be individually concentrated on and completed because of the ADD, and that our differences re: focus might come from that.

When you think of focus, do you think of it like the narrow spotlight on an unmoving target, or more like the athlete thinking, 'focus, focus' while he vividly sequences the several steps in his next event in his mind? Or something else entirely?
Wow....this is something I've never thought about. I often think of myself as a simple person, these are the kinds of questions I don't ask, but if asked, I enjoy discussing. When it comes to a debate about something I have no previous opinion on, I love to hear and obsorb other peoples opinions and talk through it and try to understand it. Mind you I am very open minded, so even when I do have a very specific opinion, I am always willing to hear another persons opinion. But to me this is interesting and I think of it as education, since I only graduated high school and never went to college, so this is my higher education, so to speak! LOL Does that make me sound dumb? If it does, Oh well! I am a simple person and I am ok with that ..... that's simple, not simple minded! :D
Anyway, I agree with you Charonshanti, now that I've had time to think it through and read the other posts. I am the same way, I too think of all the steps as individual steps, it might be why some things are so overwelming to me. Like doing laundry, it's not just doing laundry. It's walking to all the bedrooms, collecting the dirty clothes, then ya gotta get it down to the basement to the laundry area, then ya gotta sort it out (after folding this is my least favorite thing), then get the clothes in the washer, decide how much laundry to put in so that it's not over loaded, then decide what size load it is, and the temp., then the laundry soap, turn it on, close the lid. Then after it's done washing, an hour or so later, ya actually have to remember to go back down and get it into the dryer, which I forget most of the time. So for me it's usually 3 or 4 hours later, or after I've gotten into bed and sudden realize it's still in the washer. Put on the glasses, the slippers, go down stairs and get the stuff in the dryer. So after ya switch all the clothes over to the dryer and put the fabric sheet in, then ya have to set the dryer, close the door and turn it on. Then you have to remember to go back after the hour or so(which of course I forget a lot also, big surprise) and get it out of the dryer, put it into the basket, lug it back upstairs, then folding commenses, I hate this part. Now each individual item is a seperate task in and of itself!!! Now I am exhausted, I am too tired to actually do the laundry now!! LOL I never thought about it this way, but I guess that really is how I think about it, not as one task, but several tasks all in one.

(It sure would be neat to be able to take other peoples minds out for a test-drive – I get the sense that you have something a little different going on: pick up the spoon, put it in the pot, stir as three separate tasks rather than the single task – stir the soup?)Ursus, I would love to be able to see things thru other peoples' minds occasionally. So yeah, you've got the general idea... except not quite that simple, thank goodness!:eyebrow: But it's very hard to build habits because only a few steps will go together in a habit. Some people's list might read 'get ready in the morning', my mental list includes brush teeth, floss and fix hair as three separate items (not counting that fix hair is actually composed of 3 separate tasks!) Nothing ever gets done in the same order twice. Well, very few things. Sometimes brushing my teeth gets done twice because my mind is racing around somewhere else and has forgotten that I already did that once this morning....

..the practical impact of this is that one step does not naturally lead to another as it would in a routine, it's 18 different steps in no particular order or efficiency, and they each have to be individually remembered and initiated. Fortunately driving remains one task in my mind, but in other areas I sometimes have to break other things down to a level that boggles other people.

Andrea, you and I think so alike. This is a perfect example. For me sorting a load and putting in the washer is one step, don't have to think about that too much, but the taking it out and folding is not triggered as a continuum of 'running the laundry through'. I have to remember it separately, even though I intellectually know that they are related. And it's not uncommon for me to get distracted in the middle of loading the laundry and the machine runs a whole load of detergent and water.

Like doing laundry, it's not just doing laundry. It's walking to all the bedrooms, collecting the dirty clothes, then ya gotta get it down to the basement to the laundry area, then ya gotta sort it out (after folding this is my least favorite thing), then get the clothes in the washer, decide how much laundry to put in so that it's not over loaded, then decide what size load it is, and the temp., then the laundry soap, turn it on, close the lid. Then after it's done washing, an hour or so later, ya actually have to remember to go back down and get it into the dryer...Sometimes I've wondered if the severity of a person's ADD could be measured by the number of subtasks they break one main task into. Sort of like driving... how far ahead in the lane do you look? Some people look right in front of the car all the time and have to continually adjust to stay in the lane. Others look focus several carlengths ahead and the ride is pretty smooth. My ADD would be comparable to looking about a carlength and a half ahead when I go into tasks--if I look more than a few steps ahead I get lost. Meds are definitely extending the range of my forward focus and the complexity of what I can keep in mind as a single 'task'.

I should perhaps mention that until I learned about ADD I did not realize that I broke things down into so many substeps. I really appreciated Dr. Brown's discussion of focus because it really points out how many places in one 'task' the brain can drop the ball.

Hmmmm.... ok, the cat getting ready to pounce finally resolved into focus... Yeah. In a cat's conscious mind, if it could be called such, maybe there's a single intense point of focus, the mouse or whatever. But his brain and body are doing all sorts of things getting ready to follow thru. So I guess both definitions of focus would apply depending on the conscious or unconscious level. Yes? Excuse me, I have to go ask my cat....

....I hesitate to write this, because I don't want to derail this wonderful thread. But speaking of checking out another's mind, have you read Motherless Brooklyn? One of the best books I know for putting you inside a different head. In this case it's some sort of tourette's/OCD type of space - but that's some kind of distant kin to ADD....

Sounds good to me... I'll be looking for it. Is it a pretty easy read, or heavy textbook? Another one for getting into someone's mind, but which I frankly haven't had the courage to read, is "Into the Darkness: My journey into Alzheimer's," in finished by the wife of the author who started it, based in part on her observations but mostly on interviews of his recollections of his immediate past during the times he was lucid.

So in the book I quoted from earlier it goes on to quote another definition, about attention having to do with 'detaching attention from other objects so as to concentrate on keeping a clear view of one object or one train of thought.'

It occurs to me that the current discussion in our household about focus distills down to another definition--what is "one" object or "one" train of thought? For some, stirring the soup in three steps may be it--the "one task" on which they are concentrating.

So possibly "one" is different from person to person. "One train of thought' for me may be a lot smaller than for most people--- because my executive functions aren't reliablly monitoring and following through on as long a routine as they should, and then conscious intervention is qrequired to get back on task. Adding in ADD distractability, the attention focus has to be more intense, more tunnel-vision to exclude other objects from one's current subject of attention and keep them from intruding. Voila'. Hyperfocus. It's the most perfectly formed intense focus I've ever experienced. Somewhere in there.... didn't I skip over normal focus? Hmmm. Someone else will have to describe that; having little or no experience in that field,

SO... yeah. No wonder I subscribe to the spotlight beam theory, because that's how I experience things--discrete events, moments of intense focus just on one item or one part of a task.

Focus or prescence for me is when i look with my eyes, and see what im seeing...

When i do i focus exercise, i feel my self "pop" back to reality, and out of my mind...

And usually the first thing i notice is , that i wasnt conciously looking at my surroundings....

Hmmm ive never actually put it that way before...

For me to focus, is to look conciously... that was one of those "aha" moments!!

So, my focus can be on the random, wandering thoughts of my mind.... or i can choose to focus on what is real and infront of me...
I choose reality!!

I think your husband is mostly right. Dr. Brown is attacking a definition of 'focus' that may be common but is also rather simplistic.

This 'common' meaning of 'focus' is not limited to ADDers though. I would guess that most people if they were to describe 'a state of focus' would come up with something along those lines, that is a narrowing of concentration and attention upon one task. Dr. Brown's example of driving shows that focus is not all about narrowing concentration. His passage may have been clearer if his description of 'focus' also included 'purposeful'. When you drive or do any task, your attention may change from one object to another, and the scope of your attention may change as well, e.g. from the distance between you and the car behind you, to the level of congestion on the road in the 50 yards ahead of you, but your purpose remains constant. When I think of focus in this context it becomes more relevant to what I see as my symptoms of ADD, forgetting what I'm doing, like reading, listening to someone else, walking into a room to get something, opening up a program etc. but not forgetting where I am or what I'm looking at.

Relating loss of focus to loss of purpose also resonates with Dr. Brown's comments about ADDers having impaired working memory and limited capability at the executive planning functions, like making goals.

Focus for me is when my full attention is given to a particular situation or thing. When I can remember details of what was said, or can talk about it, and fully know what I am talking about.

How do we really see if a particular thought is within "context" of what one is doing? I tend to think that everything is on-topic in one way or another, so I can't really think of thoughts being "on-topic" or "off-topic". I see [lack of] focus as how far thoughts trail off from the intended task. For example, thinking about drag-racing while driving is deviant, but perhaps not as deviant as thinking about eating, unless of course you are currently eating while driving. I do see focus in the same way... though there are many gradients of focus here, and overfocus can be problematic as underfocus, as some activities naturally require multitasking (such as driving, as has been mentioned before).

... as some activities naturally require multitasking ...I can't even imagine driving and the entire process of navigating the car being the sole process occurring within my state of conscious awareness.
I believe that the extent to which the cogs of mind need to turn - to process the visual stimuli and effect the occasional movement {turning the wheel, changing gear} - is not sufficient to maintain our focus -
and so the radio comes on ...
... dependent on what's on though - the mind [brain] still might be creaking from lack of stimulation - at which point kicks in thought ...

The observation that we need to multitask whilst driving is enlightening.
We can't do it - need to multitask for the sole reason that it is not sufficient to light up our minds like a Christmas tree [neurotransmission].

ADD thinkers have a huge great monster Norwegian spruce of a tree - not some 4' plastic imitation - the only problem though - that decorating the spruce is hard work ... ... ...

... but Ho Lordy! ... you wait till you see the two trees side by side ... no comparison - an understatement.

...everything is on-topic... ... for the same reason that we cannot have a random thought ...
... there's always a way from A to B ... meaning that every A connects to every B.
This can only be the case if there's a structure in which one might be able to pin point every A and B.
rrreality.
That structure is the mind.
A collection of rrreality models which forms each of our internal [patterns of] rrrealities.
That structure is the mind.
The mind has a shape.
:-)

... it looks like a [fresh] doughnut.

Quite unexpectedly I found myself in a debate with my husband about the subject of 'focus'. (Friendly debate, I assure you.) The source of the debate came from Dr. Brown's comment in "Attention Deficit Deficiency" , where he says:And then he talks about focus actually being a constant readjustment and reevaluating of what's important in a task like driving--focusing on driving actually involves not only keeping in mind the destination, route, and arrival time, but checking mirrors, speed, monitors, position of other cars, constant adjustments to speed and direction.... in other words, his point seems to be that focus for a specific 'task' often requires orchestration of several changing parameters, requiring a competent 'conductor', i.e., executive functions.

My (very literally minded) husband commented on Dr. Brown's camera analogy as something that 'never happens in real life' (sort of like when a physics problem starts with object of mass A is moving along at speed B on a frictionless surface.... a what surface? You've just taken it out of the realm of real life, even if there was a reason to it.) While not dis-sing Dr. Brown, he felt that this was a case of extreme oversimplification to the point that no one would ever really think of focus that way, that Dr. Brown was setting up an obvious fallacy to demonstrate an argument against. He of course followed this up with the point that Einstein did the same thing to demonstrate a point, so he wasn't saying it was intellectually dishonest... he was just saying it wasn't an example out of real life.

Well, folks...:D

That is exactly how I've always thought of focus, as a very narrow unwavering attention to ONE clear goal or item, and holding that static relationship. Like a spyglass or spotlight clearly and unmovingly in clear view. So Dr. Brown's comments on the complex nature of focus were very helpful to me, demonstrating the ongoing monitoring necessary in many everyday tasks that most people take for granted.

This puzzled my husband no end, and after awhile he said, "it must be an ADD thing. Maybe it was a good illustration to use if he was writing to ADD'ers, and they would understand it." Now, them's fighting words. ;)

Seriously....
Does anyone else have an opinion on this? I realize it's just a word definition, but I feel like if I understood the debate I might know more about why my focus (and hyperfocus) seems so different from other people's. I speculated that for me, one 'task' as defined by a non-ADD'er might appear to me to be a group of multiple 'tasks' that needed to be individually concentrated on and completed because of the ADD, and that our differences re: focus might come from that.

When you think of focus, do you think of it like the narrow spotlight on an unmoving target, or more like the athlete thinking, 'focus, focus' while he vividly sequences the several steps in his next event in his mind? Or something else entirely?focus to me would mean being able to actually read past the first two lines of this post...and today I have NO focus :o

I think your husband is mostly right. Dr. Brown is attacking a definition of 'focus' that may be common but is also rather simplistic.

Dr. Brown's example of driving shows that focus is not all about narrowing concentration. His passage may have been clearer if his description of 'focus' also included 'purposeful'.
Isaiah, I like that point about purposeful.

Part of what I got out of the chapter was that generally our brains take routine multi-tasking like driving and typing and turn a lot of it into subconscious routine... if we type a lot, at some point we stop thinking about hitting individual letters and the words just flow thru the fingers and onto the screen or paper. The conscious focus is on the flow of thought, the executive functions are supposed to automate the multi-tasking part so we don't have to think about typing as we're doing it.

Which explains why when the executive functions are impaired what seems like one step may suddenly become many individual steps to consider, because the brain isn't keeping the infrastructure routine flowing in the background. Or the task may hitch because something that is normally fairly unconscious didn't come into play at the right time.

This really explained a lot of my ADD challenges to me.

Part of what I got out of the chapter was that generally our brains take routine multi-tasking like driving and typing and turn a lot of it into subconscious routine... if we type a lot, at some point we stop thinking about hitting individual letters and the words just flow thru the fingers and onto the screen or paper. The conscious focus is on the flow of thought, the executive functions are supposed to automate the multi-tasking part so we don't have to think about typing as we're doing it.

Which explains why when the executive functions are impaired what seems like one step may suddenly become many individual steps to consider, because the brain isn't keeping the infrastructure routine flowing in the background.

Yeah.

I haven't been diagnosed, but a frequent symptom of what I suspect is inattentive ADD, is exactly this. Many times people have commented that I make things out to be more complex than they actually are. Part of my procrastination, lateness and planning is the strong feeling that I am not prepared. I pretty much constantly think that I am not ready and there is more to consider than I am currently doing. Of course I may well have this feeling because of the numerous times where I have forgotten some key element of my day. I envy those who just get started, keep their eye on what they want and trust themselves to be able to cross any bridges they may encounter when they come to them.

One of the ways I think about it is that what we consider multitasking vs. concentrating on one task is somewhat subjective. Someone without ADD may be able to type, compose sentences, and structure their thoughts not exactly simultaneously but flowing easily from one action to the other and back while staying on point with their purpose, writing an essay. While for an ADDer this level of scope may be way too broad and they can't keep that much in mind. Their capacity for learning to do as a matter of subconscious routine is on a smaller scale. Personally, I have a hard time keeping my main point in mind when I'm writing let alone any minor topics or relevant details I want to mention when I am writing anything of length. The more individual steps where you have to consciously figure out the next action, which implies stopping what you're doing and your 'flow', the more potential you have to get distracted or forget.