I'm just curious if other ADDers have Allergies and/or Dark Circles under their eyes!

I have Allergies, but unfortunately they're not sure what I'm allergic to.

I also have dark circles under my eyes. I'm not sure if it's my Allergies, or if it's related to the poor sleep I often get because of my ADD.

I think I read somewhere that there supposedly is no connection between ADD and Allergies, but I personally believe that ADD and Allergies go hand and hand!

Perhaps they are close on the human genome or something.

Anyway, thanks ahead of time for taking my poll! :)

Nope no dark circles, but allergies yes. Hay fever in the spring.

... allergies - there is a connection between allergies [atopy] and ADD ...
... ->- 'histamine' -<- ...

the key agent of the allergic response
~and~
the n/t of the waking state ,,,

... the early generation of antihistamines {20-25 years ago] - would make me feel drowsy - and *?at peace?*

I personally believe that ADD and Allergies go hand and hand! - yes -

-think histamine as the main agent in fighting off parasitic infections (worms) -> into a world with no real need to fight against worms.

-then think exaptation ->- adaptation

... think mind buil on top of the chemical for the IgE-mediated allergic response.
...serendipity
- remember - evolution has to work within the constraints of what it has to manipulate.

Think heightened sensitivity to histamine in the brain
->-
heightened sensitivity to histamine in the periphery

...as seen in the allergic response to allergens ...

... the hypersensitive immune system results - just a little too eager for *our* own good.

I have allergies (though none of them are major, I believe), though I have received formal treatment for those (injections, medications). I don't have dark circles, though I've had extremely itchy eyes in my earlier years.

I get dark circles under my eyes when I'm on dex.

I have both and my allergist told me they are connected Seek. They call them allergy bags.

I wonder how you get rid of those dark circles.

I was watching a television special on Jackie Kennedy Onasis, and the Onasis girl had really dark circles under her eyes, but she went to somebody and got rid of them somehow.

I'd like to get rid of my dark circles! They really bother me. They make me look tired and worn out all the time even though I feel fine.

Allergies to cats and dust, and probably miscellaneous pollen types. Allergy shots didn't help much, but corticosteroid nasal spray (ie Nasocort) did help, as did decongestants and occasionally antihistamines.

My main problem, however, was not that my allergies were overly bad, they really aren't, but that my sinuses didn't drain properly, and surgery was performed and helped quite a bit.

However, none of the above made much of a dent in the ADHD. I also was diagnosed with sleep apnea and had surgery for that. It cured most of the sleep apnea, but again, did not help much with the ADHD. I was certainly more awake during the day, but still wasn't organized.

What a cool run around the old block ~Seek~ and a bit of memory sparking as well . . .

I am allergic to only one thing Earth!

Mold, dust<- old dust, weeds,

Citric acid. . . .

No circle under my eyes, I seem to be developing some unwelcome wrinkles through. . . .

Blast from the past . . . wonder if science will ever catch up?

Even in a larger context, the term "science" implies "derived by the Scientific Method,"
which is inescapble in discussing a medical condition/disorder such as ADHD.


Reminders from the beginning of my trip ,like a toast to the roads we have traveled, the trials shared, accusations made , and criticism endured. . . .

SB's explanation (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=275331&postcount=135)


1.A new theory, courtesy of Ian's love of snakes and Tammy's allergy to tomatoes

2.Kekulé was the first to deduce the ring structure of benzene; he dreamt one night of the Ouroboros, a snake eating its own tail, and that upon waking he was inspired to deduce the ring structure of benzene.

3.Forget for a second the interesting duality of benzene ... a cloud of electrons or alternating double bonds?
Forget even the *emergence* of the ring structure ... and instead concentrate on the structural stability of the ring.
Where is meta- on a benzene ring ...?... it's kinda' obvious, dudes ... (meta, ortho,para) :-)

4.Now look deeply into the structure of the amino acids, the building blocks of life, and what do we see? Histidine and Tyrosine as the two ring (soluble) structures, histidine more so, but tyrosine also.
Tyr (mildly hydrophilic) and His (very hydrophilic) as *stable* *water* soluble organic structures, with more than a passing resemblance to one of the nucleotides, guanine ... purine ...G (A,T,C are the others) ... if the Tyr and His are forced together.

5.Tyr and His as great biochemical choices for important functions ...

-------PART1--------
body
His-->Histamine-->Fighting off infection (mast cells,parasites), and these days, Tammy, allergies (atopy) i.e. hypersensitivity
Tyr-->Thyroid hormone-->The hormone of movement and metabolism (wigglers and runners) i.e. hyperactivity

-------PART2--------
mind
His-->Histamine (also a neurotransmitter)-->ever tried an anti-histamine and felt tired :-)-->central control of the waking state
Tyr-->Dopamine --> friend dopamine --> va va va voom!

-------PART3--------
The mind developed from the body, by transferring over tried and tested, useful, stable and suitable functionality from the body ... as the substrate for the formation of the mind.
MIND.............................................. ........BODY.......................DUALITY

ADD*** [histamine n/t]<----His--->[mast cell histamine]*allergies(asthma,eczema)
ADD***[dopamine n/t]<----Tyr--->[thyroid hormone]*hyperactivity


***awakening dreamers, novel structure of mind

Hyperactive allergic moderators*** :-)
...look above won't you ... :-)

Now, we see that movement relates to the mind's functioning, just as Tammy has been teaching us here, and as Ian has been teaching us in the exercise forum.

Also, we see that hypersensitivity to IgE (events of the atopic allergic reaction), are to be expected when both the central histaminergic and dopaminergic systems alter.

So...
Hyperattentive Hyperdrive vs. Hypersensitive Hyperactive
m.........i.........n..........d_______b.........o .........d.........y_______duality
m.........i.........n..........d_______b.........u ..........i.........lt_______on body

I have no idea where that last post came from :-)

Ho well ...

SB

...best not delete it :-)


~Underlining, bolding and coloring mine~

SB isn't alone

Histimine and cognition (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15243869&dopt=Abstract)

This review presents a link between histamine and cognition and provides an overview on the effect of histamine and selective ligands of histamine receptors on experimental models for learning, memory and cognitive functions, with a special focus on recently developed H(3) receptor ligands. Studies suggest a tremendous potential for H(3) antagonists in cognitive function disorders. ***End Quote

~bold mine~

Shoe two. . . ready shoe two. . . .

Thyriod and hyperactivity (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/03/970312165726.htm)

Resistance to thyroid hormone is a thyroid disease characterized by elevated levels of serum T3 and T4, as well as inappropriately normal or high concentrations of serum TSH, evidence of a reduced response to the actions of thyroid hormones. ADHD symptoms were identified in interviews by psychologists and psychiatrists who did not know which subjects had resistance to thyroid hormone.

TSH concentrations did not correlate significantly with any of the symptoms of ADHD. High concentrations of T3 and T4, while not significant in symptoms of inattention, were significantly and positively correlated with symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity in thyroid hormone-resistant subjects, Hauser said.

In family members who were not resistant to thyroid hormone, neither TSH nor T4 concentrations were significantly correlated with ADHD. Elevated levels of T3, however, were signicantly correlated with hyperactivity/impulsivity symptoms but not with symptoms of inattention, he reported
***End Quote
~Underlining mine~

Thyroid would explain the pain and the fact I could make my self stop moving just like every one else there wasn't a thing wrong with my internal speak, my EF or my FE's this expains why sitting still hurt me while it didn't hurt others . . .the electric behind the ouch. . . .

So based on the above yea I think ADD and allergies may have some connection as SB pointed out oh like a year ago. I mentioned a citric acid allergy we both apparently share, he connected the two but I don't know how some thing to do with snake and Ian. . . histamine sleep . . . ADD sleep problems . . .allergies . . . .arousal . . . . I see pieces of a puzzle. . . . . . .it has been a long difficult journey . . . . but science may be catching up! It's about time . . . I am tired of people telling me I lack some kind of function that creates paper work and takes up office space. . . .NOT disordered running on high octane and have sensitive CNS. . . .would explain the food allergy myths Toooooo. . . all from a diversity in perspective by a couple of radical meta-minded ADDers . . .

I have never had any allergies but since starting concerta my dark circles are worse than ever! I've always had them and no amount of makeup will cover them up. Think they're hereditary (thanks mum) I also get sinus problems and think that's the meds too as I've never had it before.

Interesting observation! I have had severe allergies all my life (and, interestingly enough, have severe ADHD), have asthma, and yeah, dark circles under my eyes most of the time, even when I have adequate sleep. I've heard the dark circles=allergies several times, but i've also been told dark circles are an indication that someone is a bit dehydrated. Not sure if thats true.

I believe allergies have alot to do with ADD and ADHD. Even my chiropractor told me the same thing. There is a wonderful book out there that tells alot about the effects that food allergies have on ADDers. It tells that behaviors, thinking, writing skills, ect. are all effected by allergies to certain foods and dyes.The name of the book is ...."Is This My Child" by Dr. Doris Rapp. I found a copy at my local library. And eventually bought myself a copy because I was rechecking this book out so often.

I think that the secret to understanding our physiology - is partially revealed by tracking down chemical structures which perform markedly different functional roles in different anatomical sites.

perhaps a site of exaptation ->- adaptation ...?...
perhaps re-use of extensively tried and tested machinery ...?...

So histamine is one ...{as above}... and another - perhaps the big enchilada is *ATP* - {previously described on ADDF} - the ~number~ of biological roles which this guy performs - is bewildering.

Here are a few other enigmatic organic molecules ... not trying to tie these into ADD - here ...

->- adenosine
->- POMC derived products particularly alpha, beta, gamma MSH {previously described on ADDF}
->- 5HTXx-R eg 5HT2c-R isotypes {previously described (very briefly) on ADDF}
->- melanin pheo-, eu-, neuro- melanin {previously described on ADDF}

... {just the first few to pop out ... }

Lord *~§~* ... I salute thee ... ->-tabasco-<- (http://www.allergy-clinic.co.uk/what_is_allergy.htm) The "allergic salute" is seen when the person’s hand constantly rubs the nose and is associated with facial grimacing or so called "Pulling of Faces" because the nose, eyes and ears are so itchy. for thine own insight into the forces at play in genus Homo species neosapiens subspecies ~§au§age§~ ->-sauce-<- (http://www.cultsock.ndirect.co.uk/MUHome/cshtml/semiomean/semio1.html) Allergic "shiners" are often a give-away – these are darkened areas of skin around the eye sockets, which are a result of increased venous congestion in the sinuses. They often resemble "Black Eyes" or look like "Mascara" around the eyes. There may be characteristic Dennie-Morgan infra-orbital folds or linear creases under the eyelids. ->-rocks-<- (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/fyi/news/08/30/aborigine/ayers.rock.jpg)

I've always had the dark circles below my eyes, and I suffer from dust allergies year-round. I think there is a minor allergy to some pollen as well. But it's the dust allergies that have me congested and/or sniffly most of the year.

allergy and ADHD - onset at similar times ~4 or 5 years old.

allergy and ADHD - both increasing at 'alarming' :-) rates.

allergy and ADHD - Western (not third) World conditions

allergy and ADHD - prevalence similar

... (perhaps allergy is a little more prevalent based on literature review) ...
don't forget though the *under*estimate in ADD prevalence (due to the nature of diagnosis) (perhaps on catching the tail of the distribution)
~and~
... the *over*estimation of the prevalence of atopic disease due to heterogeneity ... intrinsic and extrinsic asthma (for instance).

... maybe ADHD and allergy are both running at 5-15% population prevalences ... maybe ...?... guess work though.

Maybe it'd be helpful to line up the disorders, diseases, traits, conditions which affect man - to try and determine whether the temporal prevalence distributions, incidences bear any correlation .

Pretty sure that allergy will overlay perfectly over ADD - given good statistics on prevalence rates - noting that these almost certainly don't exist (though).

- Maybe we'd have to throw obesity and TIID into the pot too -
pretty sure that rates of increase of these metabolic conditions will overlay (also) -
- noting *though* that these states come through later in life than A and a {above} (and so the distribution'll be right-shifted) .

I have had allergies since my son was born (or rather during my pregnancy and from then on), Also at the same time I developed Excema (sp?) I believe that the hormone changes brought this on.

Extreme itching to the point where my eyes were literally shut. The itching was tortuous. Ragweed or generally called hayfever.

Now I have been doing the immunotherapy for about a year. It has really helped I'd say 90 to 95 % relief.

No dark circles just puffiness

SEEK you can use a concealer to cover those unsightly dark circles (just kidding:D )

a concealer ...?...

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:tUwFcLOj1mbW-M:http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/IGS/IGS218/IS084-004.jpg

... 'all the rage' ...

... as sported by the A-list {as they fall off the catwalk} ...

boing!

I've had dark cicles since i was very young, you have to keep in mind this is normal to some eastern europeans and even scandinavians.

LOL :D I wasn't expecting that! LOL :D

...?...

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=tbn:tUwFcLOj1mbW-M:http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/IGS/IGS218/IS084-004.jpg

... 'all the rage' ...

... as sported by the A-list {as they fall off the catwalk} ...

boing!

I wonder how you get rid of those dark circles.

I was watching a television special on Jackie Kennedy Onasis, and the Onasis girl had really dark circles under her eyes, but she went to somebody and got rid of them somehow.

I'd like to get rid of my dark circles! They really bother me. They make me look tired and worn out all the time even though I feel fine.me too :(
I inherited them from my dad...
I have heard a lemon juice mix can lighten them...do a google :p and when you find something that works, let me know please :D

I have heard a lemon juice mix can lighten them

If your allergic to lemons?

If not careful it isn't the disappearance of the dark circles that make them less noticeable but the watering of the eyes from misplaced drop of lemon juice oops. . .AHHHH

Errrrm, I hate to burst everyone's bubbles here, but allergies increase histamine levels, yes? So one would expect people with allergies, and thus higher histamine levels, to be more alert and attentive, no?

And one would also expect allergy medications to help ADHD, but I have yet to see any evidence of this (although in fairness modafinil may affect histamine receptors and there is evidence that it may help with ADHD...but again, it would be mimicking the action of histamine, so if allergies and excess histamine levels were responsible, one would expect modafinil to make ADHD much, much worse).

Finally, what about people with allergies and asthma and such who are not ADHD?

Errrrm, I hate to burst everyone's bubbles here, but allergies increase histamine levels, yes? Yes, from what I have been told, that is true.

So one would expect people with allergies, and thus higher histamine levels, to be more alert and attentive, no? Actually, I would expect people who do not have allergies, and thus lower histamine levels, to be more alert and attentive.
I know I can't think as clearly when I suffering from a cold or allergies.

Hoving said that, I'm not one of the people trying to sale all of us on the histamine connection. :)

However, I do believe there is some kind of correlation between ADD and Allergies. Maybe they both are close to each other on the human genome or something.

But, I'm not saying that allergies cause ADD.

What I am saying is that it seems like the incidence of allergies in ADD individuals seems rather high. Is it a higher incidence than the general population??? I really have no idea, but that would certainly be nice to know, wouldn't it? :)

What started this thought process of mine was that I noticed that many of my fellow ADDers have dark circles under their eyes (As I do). Which started me wondering if their dark circles were allergy related, or if they were sleep related.

A prosaic story:
Just as an interesting side note, all this talk about allergies and histamines reminded me of an interesting story. Quite a few years ago some Psych Doctors noticed that their depressed patients took a lot of cold medicines! The Psych doctors started wondering why so many of their patients were taking cold medicines. Anyway to make a long story short, they discovered that the cold medicines were raising their patient's serotonin levels. They then decided that they should try to come up with a medication that would raise serotonin levels without the cold medicine effects to see if their depressed patients would get the same benefit that they got from the cold medicines! What they eventually came up with was Prozac, and the rest is history! :)

What do I gather from that story?
1) It makes me wonder why so many depressed people had colds in the first place! (Probably Depression = Lowered immunity would be my guess!)
2) Are they suggesting that the people didn't really have colds, and that they instead were just taking cold medicines for their depression?
3) Did they really have colds, or were they allergies?? :D
4) Could there be some kind of correlation between depression and colds/viruses?? (And even allergies??)

Now take that same story above about Prozac and substitute ADD for the Depression and re-read it.

I would really like to know if there is a higher incidence of allergies in ADD people! It's obvious where this poll is leaning! Does anyone know if this has been studied or not?

All I have is my own family to go by! Every person in my family that has allergies, also has ADD. The ones that do not have allergies, do not have ADD.
So, what's up with that??? :confused:

Just coincidence? Perhaps! ;)

Again these are the connection that I am wondering about!

Thanks for everyones input! :)

But wouldn’t the answer be as simple as
“A,B,C”
as easy as “H1, H2, H3”
(H4?)
… noting that Hy says up and ~See~saw down
and
… hmmm …
up, down,
round and around
left leg in, right leg out …
suck your belly in
… and let it all hang out.


… 5-HT2A isn’t 5-HT2C isn’t 5-HT1E …
*no* 5-H1TE

… exaptation is a biological adaptation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation_%28biology%29) where the biological function currently performed by the adaptation was not the function performed while the adaptation evolved under earlier pressures of natural selection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection).


Exaptation of ligand by receptor isotype switching’d be a bit of a no-brainer,
wouldn’t it?

Hy {up} and ~S~eesaws {down}
… fun fun fun …
a roundabout – round and around
a seesaw - up and down
a swing - side to side


… … … so what has ~S~eesawn?


… well guys – it’s a draw …
… you both win …
yay!

… leading researchers say that you’re both right. …

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
->- kick me (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16842173&query_hl=15&itool=pubmed_DocSum) -<-
Curr Pharm Des. 2006;12(20):2501-9.
Stimulating effects of H1-antagonists.
Theunissen EL, Vermeeren A, Vuurman EF, Ramaekers JG.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whereas antihistamines are generally known for their sedative side effects, this review shows that several studies also found mild stimulating effects on performance for the H1-antagonists …

These stimulating effects were mostly demonstrated in tasksinvolving high levels of [i]attention, e.g. divided attention tasks, vigilance tasks and driving tasks.

The stimulating effects of these antihistamines were often dependent of the given dose; however the relation was not always linear.

The mechanism responsible for the stimulating effects of these four antihistamines is still unclear, though it is hypothesized that it involves other neurotransmitters like dopamine and GABA, or that it acts through the H3 histamine receptor.

Further research is needed to clarify the ambiguous role of histamine in processes of arousal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SB –>- {underline,italics}
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-No- *sale* [of course]
… images of coercion into a certain point of view … by choice of ‘sale’
… objectivity down – subjectivity up …
... bad!

->- *free* ->- take it or leave it ->- *your* call

… but if you’re going to leave it – leave me with a better explanatory model.

So – you not likey the hastyhisty hypotheseesaw …
… so how about a list of alternatives …


1-The ADD and allergy association is not real.
~it is though…
*FAIL*

2-The ADD and allergy genes live next door to each other.
~trivial to find using now classical methodology … if anybody wants to do a lit search and list out all of the allergy loci and ADD loci – I’ll check them out for proximity.

However – allow me to offer a preemptive …
*FAIL*

...maybe epigenetic – not genetic
…simply a *FAIL* down to evolution by mutation taking time
…epigenetic modification does not
…genome-wide epigenetic analyses are about to kick off …

3-{Hypothesis III}

… feed me!
:-)

… any more …?...
… hungry

Hey Seek, if they are baggy in addition being dark? I have a tip for ya...Preparation H! No kidding, it shrinks tissues ;) of all types. Get you a tube of makeup, man, they are not going anywhere if allergy meds have not made them lessen in color by now.

Thanks for the advice about those allergic to lemon juice, Tamms. I happen to be one of those people and for the record, lemon juice also lightens hair, but to an ugly shade of orange on some of us. The thought of orange bags under my eyes is none to appealing. I will keep the dark rings over orange any day!

The thought of orange bags under my eyes is none to appealing.

LoL!!! A-peel-ling ...hehehe. Just thought this was witty :D

LoL!!! A-peel-ling ...hehehe. Just thought this was witty :D;) One of these days I will get the Humor Award, I hope. I try anyway.

~eg~

[[[10% population prevalence ADD]]]
20% population prevalence allergy

Take 23 people with ADD (from above)

observed
18 (allergic) 5 (not allergic)
expected
5 (allergic) 18 (not allergic)

Throwing ->-
18 5
5 18
->->->-
http://home.clara.net/sisa/fisher.htm
(http://home.clara.net/sisa/fisher.htm)->->->-
Fishers Exact (exact class of test) - valid at small sample sizes->->->-
Highly significant difference suggesting ADD and allergy co-segregate ->->- noting though - that 10%, 20% were plucked out of a 10 second trip into googleboogle.

---------------------------------
The total number of cases= 46
The smallest value= 5
The smallest marginal= 23

Use of * (starred) statistics is advised

The p for exactly this table= 0.000137THE FURTHER BELOW 0.05 - THE MORE ONE BELIEVES THE RESULT.
GENERALLY <0.001 WILL SATISFY THE MOST DOUBTING OF THOMASSES ---------------------------------
The p-value for the same or a stronger
association= 0.000147*
---------------------------------
The p-value for a stronger association= 0.000009
The mid p-value= 0.000078
---------------------------------
The p-value for the same or the reverse
association= 0.999990
---------------------------------
Two sided p-values for p(O>=E|O<=E)
p-value= 0.0002948630* (the sum of small p's)
p-value= 0.000294 (double the single sided p)
Two sided p-value for p(O>E|O<E)
p-value= 0.0000198245 (the sum of small p's)
Two sided p-value mid-p
p-value= 0.0001573437 (the sum of small p's)
---------------------------------
Chi squares (both with 1 degree of freedom):
Pearson's= 14.696 (p= 0.0001)*
Likelihood Ratio= 15.6 (p= 0.0000)

Use of * (starred) statistics is advised
---------------------------------

Conclusion
ADD and allergy are cheeky bed fellows.

Well, except for the fact that it's not a random sample pool, since I presume many people without allergies may simply have chosen not to comment on this thread.

Plus I'm still waiting to hear how allergies would affect prefrontal activity, as well as dopamine levels.

Plus, wouldn't an allergy hypothesis predict that histamine agonists like modafinil would exacerbate ADHD?

------
...1...
------
comment 'no'
- but -
vote 'yes'

-only need the numbers ...
-----------
...2,3...
-----------
... they wouldn't ...
evolution, exaptation ->- adaptation, new function borrowed from older functionality, cross-reactivity of the new system backwards into the older system is where I'm aiming here ...
otherwise described ...

a binds b1 ->- function c
later in evolution
a binds b2 ->- function d

function d good - and so a is elevated.

function c gets pulled alongside d - regardless of whether it's now essentially a legacy functionality.

The IgE-mediated response was originally aimed at hitting parasites(worms) ... ... ...
Histamine sequestered by the mind as a n/t
Histamine sensitivity enhanced (centrally)
Peripherally (pulled along) - hypersensitivity to histamine witnessed peripherally ->- or inappropriate allergic responses to allergens.

Likely that histamine hits different receptors in these two locations and that the sensitivity of the newer functionality - is enhanced over the older functionality - or otherwise put - that the peripheral response is more akin to cross-reactivity ...

a + b1 ->- f(c)
later in evolution
a + b2 ->- f(d)

a elevates and hits high affinity b2 ->-promotes->- f(d)
however
lesser sensitive b2 is bathed in more a also ->- and so f(c) is enhanced also.

Except there's a shortage on parasites - and so our dumbas s immune system picks a fight with Dermatophagoides pteronyssinus poop.

So -
hyper-sensitivity is the term in allergology ...
... sitting quietly next to
hyper-activity (which I believe :-) is the term in AD(H)D).
hyper-ion.

1...correlation between depression and colds/viruses?
2...higher incidence of allergies in ADD peopletwo arms to the specific arm of the immune system.

Th1 response
Th2 response

Th1 > cell-mediated response ->- tackles viruses
Th2 > humoral (antibody eg IgE) response
Th2 incorporates the anti-parasitic reaction - the allergic response.

Seems reasonable that if the mind is going ro be built on Th2, that Th1'd be close by.

chillin' in the hood.

I wonder how you get rid of those dark circles.

I was watching a television special on Jackie Kennedy Onasis, and the Onasis girl had really dark circles under her eyes, but she went to somebody and got rid of them somehow.

I'd like to get rid of my dark circles! They really bother me. They make me look tired and worn out all the time even though I feel fine.
I have the same problem with the shiny bags under my eyes and I also have alergies year round. It could come from years of rubbing my eyes all the time. I think there is definately somekind of connection with allergies and ADHD. There has been many posts about this topic already, which leads me to believe there has to be something to it.

Errrrm, I hate to burst everyone's bubbles here, but allergies increase histamine levels, yes? So one would expect people with allergies, and thus higher histamine levels, to be more alert and attentive, no?

And one would also expect allergy medications to help ADHD, but I have yet to see any evidence of this (although in fairness modafinil may affect histamine receptors and there is evidence that it may help with ADHD...but again, it would be mimicking the action of histamine, so if allergies and excess histamine levels were responsible, one would expect modafinil to make ADHD much, much worse).

Finally, what about people with allergies and asthma and such who are not ADHD?

No bubble busting only bubble blowing just don’t let the bubbles in my brain go too far they will get lost. . . .

Maybe the answer lies in the number that goes with the letter in the alphabet soup. . . H1, H2. H3. . . . like soup combined with cracker taste one way and soup combined with bubbles would taste another. . . it is still the same soup but a different mix thus a different action . . . . I think I am never sure though. . .

Perhaps a better explanation comes from this, I believe this person to speak Hyperion language better than I, sense I can’t PM you the picture in my mind this may be the next best thing . . . .

Pharmacology explanation (http://www.gwu.edu/~gwmed05/notes/Antihistamines-Sutherland%20OK.doc)

So once you got that IgE response and you have the allergens coming in through your nose and into your throat, then those mast cells are there to be activated to release the histamine and generate the allergic response. In the gastric mucosa, it is a little different because in that instance histamine is not stored in mast cells. Instead it is released from ___ white cells and this really activates basically the active producing parietal cells. In this case, histamine release, we are going to look at a different types of antihistamine and that one that works on it is the H2 receptor subtype and well go over that as we go through the handout. Finally, histamine can be found in the central nervous system and it acts as a neurotransmitter. The potential role for histamine in the central nervous system include ___ control, cardiovascular regulation, thermal regulation and arousal.***End Quote

But wouldn’t the answer be as simple as
“A,B,C”
as easy as “H1, H2, H3”
(H4?)

***Source Quote Begin AgainBasically there are three subtypes of histamine receptors and they are called, surprisingly enough, H1, H2 and H3 and basically these subtypes of histamine receptors belong to a large family of receptors, that are the protein coupled receptors, ____. In the central nervous system, H1 and H2 receptors are postsynaptic, whereas H3 receptors are presynaptic and because H3 receptors are presynaptic that basically gives them a role potentially in controlling release of other nerve transmitters. So right now, this is all we are going to talk about in terms of CNS and histamine receptors because there are really no drugs we can talk about that are going that are going to be effective in the CNS as yet especially on the H3.***End Quote

Plus I'm still waiting to hear how allergies would affect prefrontal activity, as well as dopamine levels.

Plus, wouldn't an allergy hypothesis predict that histamine agonists like modafinil would exacerbate ADHD?

Allergies???? Histamine isn’t it released during allergic reaction however is present even when in non-allergic state? I could be wrong it is just some brain fart question . . .going along with the idea . . . . Hmmmm (thought interrupted by hunger)


Berkeley.edu (http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/FreemanWWW/manuscripts/IE3/93.html)

In conclusion, a new breakthrough from neural networks may be the insight that GABA can be excitatory, possibly under regulation by histamine. A further point of this story concerns the proliferation of receptor subtypes (Nicoll et al 1990), feedback regulatory mechanisms (Kamermans and Werblin 1992), ionic dependencies (Alkon et al 1992), and multitransmitter interactions (Zorurnski and Isenberg 1991) of neurochemicals. Evolutionary pressures for selection act on behavior, not on single genes or molecular receptors, and the effects of shaping will be seen in the performance of densely interactive masses of neurons. A molecular approach one receptor at a time may further confuse rather than enlighten investigators. Mathematical models that encompass interactive wholes (Mandell and Selz 1992) can give broad pictures that may prove to be necessary for informed development of a more rational psychoneuropharmacology.***Quote End


Out of vegetable soup I only have chicken noodle. . . Trying to find answers about histamine and arousal with prefrontal cortex, and not sure about the allergies except they effect behavior of histamine. . . protein binding stuff I couldn’t explain if one had a gun to my head. . . think SB would be better in that department I am unsure if I would even be able to comprehend the answer . . . unless he went with a simple analogy which many here seem to object to because they can read their alphabet soup. . . I just eat mine


Histamine cars ? (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/botrender.fcgi?blobtype=html&artid=55561)

Orexin neurons are exclusively localized in the lateral hypothalamic area and project their fibers to the entire central nervous system, including the histaminergic tuberomammillary nucleus (TMN). Dysfunction of the orexin system results in the sleep disorder narcolepsy, but the role of orexin in physiological sleep–wake regulation and the mechanisms involved remain to be elucidated. Here we provide several lines of evidence that orexin A induces wakefulness by means of the TMN and histamine H1 receptor (H1R). Perfusion of orexin A (5 and 25 pmol/min) for 1 hr into the TMN of rats through a microdialysis probe promptly increased wakefulness for 2 hr after starting the perfusion by 2.5- and 4-fold, respectively, concomitant with a reduction in rapid eye movement (REM) and non-REM sleep. Microdialysis studies showed that application of orexin A to the TMN increased histamine release from both the medial preoptic area and the frontal cortex by ≈2-fold over the baseline for 80 to 160 min in a dose-dependent manner. Furthermore, infusion of orexin A (1.5 pmol/min) for 6 hr into the lateral ventricle of mice produced a significant increase in wakefulness during the 8 hr after starting infusion to the same level as the wakefulness observed during the active period in wild-type mice, but not at all in H1R gene knockout mice. These findings strongly indicate that the arousal effect of orexin A depends on the activation of histaminergic neurotransmission mediated by H1R.***End Quote

I don’t know if this will be valuable or simply added to my own confusion. . . okay Chicken soup with crackers here I come. . . it’s raining out side and I think my last dose of Adderall needs an up-date.

I tell you Tammy - how do you do that ...?...

:-) ....how... ...?... :-)

orexin ->- hisraminergic circuitry
dysfunctional orexin(s) (LH) ->- narcolepsy
dexedrine ->- vs. ADD && vs. Narcolepsy

->- the three points above are not wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orexin)-contrawiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orexin)versialpaedia (http://www.vegecyber.com/item/10415.jpg)

{vege-}cybersausages ...?...
nooo!!!
The virtual sausage is alive.

The virtual sausage is alive.

Does it come with crackers? -LOL!

What about lactose intolerance?

"Bueller?...Bueller?...Bueller?..." Do

I

O

fffend?

:-)

23 6
23 7

way! funny

46 13
13 46
->- F E T
->->->-

The p-value for the same or a stronger association= 0.000000*

... off the scale wayyy significant.

way! funny

Nope no dark circles, but allergies yes. Hay fever in the spring. same except its year round :)

Allergies

- I'm lactose intolerant (I heard from a med-school friend that most people are anyway)
- I have allergies and asthma
- I have dark circles

P.S. I love reading SB_UK's posts!