this is interesting, both conditions have symptons resembling ADD

http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_2006/Depression_06/D_roller_coaster.htm

i'm sure i'm high histamine, it says they are allways motivated but i gues add counteracted that one as its the only sysmpton that doesnt fit me

Wesley I have been interested in the link between my hyperactivity and histamine levels for a long time. . .I do think there is a connection but some of things with the theory in the hyper link don't fit me at all.

I have a several allergies some are respiratory others are food. I am impulsive yes but not compulsive, and I am the opposite of obsessive, Although I do have sever problems with insomnia I an not a light sleeper, when I do finally fall asleep the only difference between me and a dead person is I have a pulse and respirations.

I am not a perfectionist although I am a busy person. My metabolism is fast. . . shows up on lab test, plus six to eight hour drugs are gone in 4. to 5. My body temperature is low I average 96.8 and am rarely bothered by mosquitoes, fleas, or ticks. Big Nose, and feet is me and my fingers and toes are long (my second toe is longer than my first) also but I am small framed, every thing on me tends to be long and skinny. I do not produce a lot of saliva, my teeth are not . . . .I have head aches frequently (but I live with Gary) but I have an average to above average pain tolerance. . . .if I notice I have a body part then there is probably some thing wrong with it. . . . .the sex drive well I will leave alone this is after all a family friendly forum.

Like I said I think there is a link between histamine and ADD especially hyperactivity however there is still some thing not quiet right even with this approach. . . . .but I good find none the less! Thanks.

my body temperature seems to be low too (yet warm hands etc), also i am not frequentle bothered by mosqueto's

one question? do you get a hangover often? i dont seem to get them very often
i'm also not really an addictive personallity, but could be because of OCD as i'm obsessing i should only use drugs on euphoric days (the really good days)
even alcohol

on very bad days, i even don't take my medication, but i gues this obsessions are good actually:D

... that's an interesting site - how did you stumble across it?
the oddest of things though - a load of info on histamine - and yet a persistent spelling error of histimine not histamine throughout the piece.

I've had fairly significant allergies in the past (treated for them though), but I don't fit the high-histamine table on that website very much at all (inattentive type). I don't think there is a connection at all with me. I don't really fit the mold of either table presented, though I do have a couple of traits from each one. I'm probably closer to the low-histamine end though.

one question? do you get a hangover often? i dont seem to get them very often

I have not had a hang over sense I took an IV certification class many years ago. The discussion was about osmosis and fluid movement and how the balance of fluid between the cells of the body and the blood. The fluids mentioned were D5W-popular IV solution containing dextrose a simple sugar and NS another IV solution containing 0.09% Sodium Chloride – another IV solution were mentioned as well as the ways in which they influenced the movement of body fluids. Being me complete with my wiggly bouncy body and global type thinking walked away from the IV certification class knowing the cause of hang overs how they occur in connection to alcohol consumption . . . chemical dehydration combined with slight inflammation, both of which are easily reversed. I have never had another hang over again because I now understand why it happens.

I've had fairly significant allergies in the past (treated for them though), but I don't fit the high-histamine table on that website very much at all (inattentive type). I don't think there is a connection at all with me. I don't really fit the mold of either table presented, though I do have a couple of traits from each one. I'm probably closer to the low-histamine end though.

HF suggestion of bed time reading material for meadd823?. . . . I few articles of interest found.



From Nature.com (http://www.nature.com/bjp/journal/v131/n6/full/0703692a.html )

Histaminergic fibres are known to project to the striatum (Russell et al., 1997; Inagaki et al., 1988) and autoradiographic studies have demonstrated the presence of H1, H2 and H3 histamine receptors within the basal ganglia (Palacios et al., 1981; Arrang et al., 1987; Bouthenet et al., 1988; Ruat et al., 1990). Functionally, intrastriatal injection of H1 and H2 receptor agonists modulate the motor and cognitive behaviour associated with a learned helplessness model of depression (López-Garcia et al., 1993), whilst microinjections of histamine into the nucleus accumbens can induce a marked increase in locomotor activity (Bristow & Bennett, 1988). Striatal histamine may also play an important role in methamphetamine-induced stereotypic behaviours (Ito et al., 1996).

Functional significance
The data presented provides an explanation for the observation that histamine enhances striatal acetylcholine release in vivo (Prast et al., 1997). The rapid depolarization induced by histamine acting at H1 receptors readily brings cholinergic interneurones to threshold for firing action potentials and suggests that histamine may be a significant neuromodulator in these cells. In behavioural studies, intrastriatal injection of histamine has been shown to have a marked effect on behaviour and locomotion possibly through modulation of cholinergic cell activity (Bristow & Bennett, 1988; López-Garcia et al., 1993; Ito et al., 1996). Furthermore, since it has been demonstrated that histaminergic transmission may be altered in diseases of the basal ganglia such as Huntington's disease (Martinez-Mir et al., 1993), it is conceivable that modulation of histamine action in these neurones may offer considerable scope for therapeutic intervention (Graybriel, 1990). ***End Quote

~Underlining mine~

Just connecting a few dots. I still think that matoblism and throysine come into play as mentioned by SB some time back .. . . beginning in mete-minds and going into details in “not Einstein”. . . . . .essantially displying another possibilty besides dysfunction Executive Functions which for those like me the neurochemical possiblity seemed more plausable. . . executive functioning theories didn’t line up with my personal experience much like the hyper histamine presentation there were some parts which help true for me but it lacked some thing and several more of the assumptions were simply “off”

I mean have any of you every met a hyperactive ADDer who didn’t have a fast matabolism, who didn’t consume mega food and remain skinny. . . .Wigglies are produced by the brain in a physical sense and have nothing to do with the lack of inhabitory internal speach crap perposed by some in the main stream.

Another consderation is those of us who are strickly hyperactive make up only some thing like 6% of the ADD population, we are the smallest sub-type where most people are combined.

My persepctive was greatly influenced by these discussion the introduction into the histamine theroyne connection by SB and my own observations that as I become older and my matabolism begins to slow I am actually aquiring more inattentive traits. My fast matabolism has been shown in past lab test I was not hyper thyriod as displyed in TSH results which were normal despite my T3 &T4 up take was high. . . .Although my T4 up take has slowed my TSH (thyroid stimulatiog horomone) has remained with in the normal range. . . . . . but as my uptake has slowed my ADD traits have shifted in direct perportion. . .

HF I think this is the disparty you and I are seeing with the hyper histamine appraoch. Thyroid is not being accounted for. . . . if it boggles the brain don’t feel bad my neurophyschtrist brain is kept active through these presentations. I am both patent and brain boggler. . . but he is a very kind and patent man not threated by my invetigations in the least. . . . the type of secruity required by any one who is going to treat my ADHD. . . .and tolerate me!


More light reading about histamine and hiberation which should accuate the arousal physical activity effects of histamine and dopamine.

Biomedical.com (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2202/4/24)

It was suggested that the increase in extracellular dopamine may be due to reduced degradation, caused by a decrease in catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and monoamine oxidase (MAO) activity, as well as reduced re-uptake activity. Tissue levels of HVA have been shown to decrease already during entrance into hibernation [45,46] and another dopamine metabolite, 3-methoxytyramine (3-MT) disappears altogether [46], indicating a decrease in dopamine release. HVA and 3-MT levels stay low throughout the hibernation bout and arousal from hibernation [45,46]. Dopamine D2 receptors decrease during hibernation [45]. The observation that dopamine release is reduced and yet extracellular dopamine levels increase during hibernation may reflect the changed needs placed on the motor system. Since active locomotion is not required, dopamine release (and presumably synthesis) is reduced.

However, in order to maintain the functional stability of the striatal dopamine system components (e.g., prevention of receptor up-regulation, which would lead to supersensitivity in the motor system during and following arousal) and to maintain the postural control necessary to achieve the rolled-up posture of the hibernator, the dopamine degradative pathways are altered in order to maintain elevated extracellular levels of dopamine. In view of the studies indicating that histamine regulates dopamine synthesis and release through H3 receptor activation and our findings presented here showing that H3 receptors are active and perhaps upregulated during hibernation, we propose that histamine, through the action of GABAergic neurons, may play an important role in downregulating dopaminergic activity in the basal ganglia during hibernation.

In the brain of mammals, histamine is released from a cluster of neurons located in the tuberomammillary nucleus of the posterior hypothalamus, sending widespread projections to almost all parts of the brain [5,47-49]. Accordingly, the histamine H1, H2 and H3 receptors show widespread distribution throughout the brain [22,50,51]. The morphological features of the histaminergic system and the nature of its actions in the brain, i.e. the regulation of general activities, such as arousal state and energy metabolism, suggest that the histaminergic system may be a regulatory center for over-all brain activity [52].

Along this line of thought, the histamine system would be well-suited to serve as a major controller of the hibernation bout cycle, as a single cluster of cell bodies projecting widely throughout the brain would allow a coherent, focused input to have a widespread, coordinating multi-functional effect. According to this model histaminergic tuberomammillary neurons could receive input conveying internal circannual information and peripheral stimuli, and relay output that affects different brain areas and transmitter systems in a differential manner, depending on the receptor constitution in the target area ***End Quote

This would connect histamine to metabolism I think. . . .SB is good with this sort of stuff he does alphabet soup better than I do. . . . what I do know is we don’t hibernate but there does seem to be an activity difference between inattentive ADDers and the hyperactive ones. I also know I have gone past my usual three page posting limit even with me breaking my responses up. Plus I probably should check out what is happening in General ADD before going to bed. .

...i should perhaps mention that the elevated histamine side is shockingly familiar ->- as is {currently} ->- this bit ... 'chronic black depression' ...

'chronic black depression'

That completely stinks. . . .wish I could make it go away.

i'm gonna try a combination of H1, 2 and 3 recepter antagonists
but for H1 a non sedatieve antihistamine (one that doenst cross the blood brain barrier) as inhibiting h1 can be damn sedating!

I hate the way antihistimines make me feel -


The thyroid thing

Science daily (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/03/970312165726.htm)


TSH concentrations did not correlate significantly with any of the symptoms of ADHD. High concentrations of T3 and T4, while not significant in symptoms of inattention, were significantly and positively correlated with symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity in thyroid hormone-resistant subjects, Hauser said.

In family members who were not resistant to thyroid hormone, neither TSH nor T4 concentrations were significantly correlated with ADHD. Elevated levels of T3, however, were signicantly correlated with hyperactivity/impulsivity symptoms but not with symptoms of inattention, he reported.***End Quote

I had lab results resemble the above.


Expression of Human Organic Anion Transporters in the Choroid Plexus and Their Interactions With Neurotransmitter Metabolites (http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/93/4/93_430/_article/-char/en)

Expression of Human Organic Anion Transporters in the Choroid Plexus {adjacent to cerebellum} and Their Interactions With Neurotransmitter Metabolites
Added to source

The cerebellum has been calling for a while now
source (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287379&postcount=268) Fast forward a few years: James Albus looks hard at the cerebellum and sees a modified Perceptron model at work.
CMAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebellar_Model_Articulation_Controller)
Cerebellar Model Articulation Controller
... with solution within the regularity of structure of this structure - if indeed the structure's structure displays regularity in structure.
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebellum)
The cytoarchitecture (cellular organization) of the cerebellum is highly uniform ...

... so that'd be a ~yes~ then - wouldn't it?
The cerebellum has been calling for a while now
source (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=358450&postcount=34)
StrawBerry fields for ever................
~and~
how does CMAC compare to your pattern matching scheme?
... importantly ...
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebellum)
... there have been many attempts to model the cerebellar function.The insights provided by the models have also led to extrapolations in the domains of artificial intelligence methodologies, especially neural networks. Some of the notable achievements have been Cerebellatron , Cerebellar Model Associative Memory or CMAC networks, and Spikeforce for robotic movement control,and "Tensor Network Theory".

... added to text ...
... time to pick up.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Gray708.png
... noting that ADDers should do ... what ADDers do best
"chasing butterflies"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Gray702.png

~ps~
-<- the cerebellum (from above) [from Wiki-cerebellum [URL] listed above]

Cerebellum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebellum)

Many neural pathways link the cerebellum with the motor cortex—which sends information to the muscles causing them to move—and the spinocerebellar tract—which provides feedback on the position of the body in space (proprioception). The cerebellum integrates these pathways, using the constant feedback on body position to fine-tune motor movements. (End Quote)

Exercise buttocks exercise brain. . . . . some thing that are seen as normal I find disordered. . . . hang that out on the single of your home, office, or television set.