I was diagnosed with adult ADD about a year ago, and have been on either brand name dexedrine or Adderall XR several times a week. I had success on both of these, particularly the dexedrine, in terms of focusing at school, getting things done, etc.

HOWEVER... right when I need these drugs the most (I have a big series of licensure exams coming up in a few weeks) these drugs all of a sudden seem to make me overwhelmingly tired and mentally slow!

This is basically the opposite of the effect that I usually have. I doubt it is a tolerance issue as I never took either of the drugs more than a couple times a week, and often took weeks off at a time. I have been getting a decent amount of sleep, but am under a huge amount of stress now... which has been made worse by the fact that my meds have suddenly become unreliable.

Does anyone know why the drugs would basically all of a sudden have the opposite effect that they once had? The fatigue issue would happen once in a long while (maybe 1 in 25 times) but now seems to happen most times. Any info would be greatly appreciated, as I am really not sure what to do while doing the rest of my studying (a lot to go) and taking these tests.

I had the same thing happen to me, but lately it's gotten better. Do you find that it works with your very first dose in the morning, or only with subsequent doses? What are your meals like in terms of timing with dosages?

I am not sure whether something I am eating is having an effect. I had a pretty big meal about an hour before taking 7.5 mg of dexedrine today. After taking the dex, I then got a weird cloudy feeling in my head and was so tired that I had to stop what I was doing and lay down for a while. Even after getting up, I still felt less sharp than usual for a while and had difficulty with my studying.

I should also note that sometimes after about an hour or two of being really groggy and often uncontrollably tired (have to take a nap), I then tend to get the true stimulant effect. Almost like there is some kind of struggle/delay in getting the stimulant to start working.

If I can reverse the line of questioning :) , how long/frequently had you been taking a stimulant before it started to make you tired and groggy? Did you notice any pattern in food intake, sleeping, stress, etc. that made it have this opposite effect?

I would greatly appreciate any personal accounts from those who have had this happen, to try to track down some similarities in what might be causing it.

I experienced this when drinking a lot of coffee and also not sleeping enough. Coffee and sugar will keep me awake. Adderall will not.

In my case, taking a choline supplement usually helps. These are available at most vitamin sources. I prefer CDP Choline. Lecithin is too weak for me and Alpha GPC is good but expensive. Taking too much can result in a bad headache, otherwise my only reaction is the fog clearing (ahhhh.)

I've pinned the blame on Insufficient sleep or overindulgence in sugar as contributing to or causing this.

fredrickson, I've had the EXACT SAME SYMPTOMS. It may be food-related, but I've been unable to sense a pattern. Today, before I took 10 mg. Adderall XR, I had an egg on toast (2.5 hours prior to dose) and a cup of coffee immediately before dose. The coffee raises a red flag, but until recently, I had a cup before my morning dose with no problems at all. My working hypothesis right now is that I need a stronger dose, but I am by no means wedded to this theory. My doc says most people find an effective dose, then it becomes ineffective, at which time she bumps the dosage, and then the patient is fine. In other words, it's common for the original effective dose to become too little over time, but then one increase usually takes care of it permanently. Granted, you will find many people in disagreement with that hypothesis on here, but that could be explained by doctors not starting off with a minimal dose and then working their way up. It could also have something to do with the liver, rather than the brain. If I take my XR as soon as I wake up, I can feel the second dose hit me exactly 3 hours and 55 minutes after I swallow the pill. However, yesterday I took it at 11 a.m., and the second dose didn't hit me until around 5 p.m. It's very strange. I think the new Ritalin patch may help avoid these issues.

Are you sleeping o.k at night? How many hours of sleep at night do you average? Perhaps the adderall is effecting the quality of your sleep. What about sleep apnea? Just food for though.:eyebrow:

I, for one, am sleeping great. When this happens, I feel great, take the Adderall, and suddenly feel like slipping into a coma. I believe this is what frederickson is experiencing, too.

yes sargon, that is exactly how it is for me too. i feel fine, and then am overwhelmingly groggy and tired shortly after taking either adderall or dexedrine.

the question of dosage is an interesting one. but if the dose being too low is related to the sudden fatigue, why would it have a NEGATIVE effect? it would seem that an ineffective dose might not have much of an effect, but why would it make one more tired than nothing at all? maybe the body is expecting more? i don't know...

as for sleeping, i am not sleeping very well. but in the past, even when i had not slept very well the stimulants would wake me up and i would be okay on poor sleep. i have more stress now, and have been taking creatine monohydrate (an exercise supplement which can cause some hydration issues), but nothing else has changed that i can think of.

addlawstudent - are you saying that choline stopped the adderall induced fatigue? or just fatigue in general?

One thing I've observed is that the groggy feeling is akin to what I feel when the Adderall wears off ... It's almost like the body metabolizes it instantly, and you're instantly put into the wear-off period. I'm thinking maybe the brain, now anticipating a larger dose, uses the existing medicine up prematurely. Of course, I'm probably totally full of ****, but that's one way I've thought of it conceptually.

What about your blood pressure?:eyebrow: Is their a change in blood pressure directly after dosing? Just trying to help.:)

That's actually a good question, but I haven't looked into it. I do know that sudden drop in blood pressure can be a symptom of adrenal fatigue, which is one of the things I've considered. Here's what I do know: The dosage that used to work now sometimes causes fatigue, as Frederickson described. The medicine's the same, my diet hasn't changed, and everything else is essentially the same. Therefore, something about ME must have changed. Could be adrenal fatigue, could be something like dopamine depletion, but the simplest explanation at this point is probably that a change in dosage is required. I think this has to do with metabolism, either by the liver or the brain. I wish some of the gurus on this site would weigh in!

The ***** about taking amphetamines are the issues with food and acidity. Taking a dose too close to a meal slows down absorbtion and delays the meds from working their best. That is my big problem with Adderall.


J

The ***** about taking amphetamines are the issues with food and acidity. Taking a dose too close to a meal slows down absorbtion and delays the meds from working their best. That is my big problem with Adderall.


JI'm not sure about the meal slowing absorbtion. I am new to adderall and I am finding that if I eat a decent meal even close to the dose I feel better on it.

I just saw my doc again on Tuesday who understands and specializes in treating this this disorder and she has given me this list twice now telling me how important it is to avoid the foods on this list one hour before and one hour after taking a stim med.

I have posted this a few times now and am wondering what others think about it.

(These things are acidifying and make stims less effective)

Fruit juices
Gatorade
Granola bars
High-vitamin cereals
Lemonade
Oral supspension anitbiotics
Pop-Tarts
Powerbars
Soft drinks, colas
Vitamins containing vitamin C
Products with citric acid.<!-- / message -->

Seems to be working for me so far.

the account of what just happened may be of interest...

since i am now getting weary of my amphetamines, i took a caffeine pill (200 mg, amount in one cup of coffee) before studying as a compromise. i was a little tired and needed a boost for focusing.

shortly after taking the caffeine, i felt EXTREMELY stimulated for about half an hour. i would say overly stimulated and almost too much to focus, giddy and nervous with mild stomach upset. just from a cup of coffee?!? and then... the fatigue hit me like a brick to the head and i had to lay down and nap for half an hour. after waking up, i now feel okay and mildly focused.

something weird is going on as i used to take caffeine before exercise, in the morning, etc. with some regularity and never had this happen. as sargon said, i wonder if something has changed such that the stimulants are hitting me too hard at once and forcing my brain to shut off. on another board someone had mentioned this as a possibility.

as for acidic foods, i actually have an extremely acidic stomach and take a proton pump inhibitor (reduces stomach acid). that could be playing in here, but i have taken that for a long time, well before these problems started.

this is really frustrating, and with the test of a lifetime coming up not really sure what to do. stress levels going through the roof... which may be contributing to the weird stimulant effect?

Frederickson, have you been sleeping well?

Perhaps focusing some good nights sleep may help some?

You know, something just dawned on me, speaking of alkaline or acidic.

I tried the alkaline diet for a time last year and felt great. I am planning getting back to it but it does take quite a bit of will power.

On it, you can eat acidic foods but at an 80% alkaline-20% acidic intake. the more alkaline, the better.

I'll look for more links but here is one to start with. http://www.energiseforlife.com/alkaline_diet_resources.php


<TABLE borderColor=#c6d9ec cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR class=arial12 borderColor=#6d86c0><TD bgColor=#d8e4f1 colSpan=2>Alkaline Foods






</TD><TD borderColor=#990000 bgColor=#fff2f2 colSpan=2>Acid Foods






</TD></TR><TR class=ariel11 vAlign=top><TD width="26%" rowSpan=3>Vegetables



Asparagus
Artichokes
Cabbage
Lettuce
Onion
Cauliflower
Radish
Swede
Lambs Lettuce
Peas
Courgette
Red Cabbage
Leeks
Watercress
Spinach
Turnip
Chives
Carrot
Green Beans
Beetroot
Garlic
Celery
Grasses (wheat, straw, barley, dog, kamut etc.)
Cucumber
Broccoli
Kale
Brussels Sprouts





</TD><TD width="25%" height=142>Fruits



Lemon
Lime
Avocado
Tomato
Grapefruit
Watermelon (is neutral)
Rhubarb



</TD><TD borderColor=#990000 width="24%">Meats



Pork
Lamb
Beef
Chicken
Turkey
Crustaceans
Other Seafood (apart from occasional oily fish such as salmon)






</TD><TD borderColor=#990000 width="25%">Dairy Products



Milk
Eggs
Cheese
Cream
Yoghurt
Ice Cream






</TD></TR><TR class=ariel11 vAlign=top><TD>Drinks



'Green Drinks'
Fresh vegetable juice
Pure water (distilled, reverse osmosis, ionised)
Lemon water (pure water + fresh lemon or lime).
Herbal Tea
Vegetable broth
Non-sweetened Soy Milk
Almond Milk






</TD><TD borderColor=#990000 width="24%">Others



Vinegar
White Pasta
White Bread
Wholemeal Bread
Biscuits
Soy Sauce
Tamari
Condiments (Tomato Sauce, Mayonnaise etc.)
Artificial Sweeteners
Honey



</TD><TD borderColor=#990000 width="25%">Drinks



Fizzy Drinks
Coffee
Tea
Beers
Spirits
Fruit Juice
Dairy Smoothies
Milk
Traditional Tea



</TD></TR><TR class=ariel11 vAlign=top><TD>Seeds, Nuts & Grains



Almonds
Pumpkin
Sunflower
Sesame
Flax
Buckwheat Groats
Spelt
Lentils
Cumin Seeds
Any sprouted seed






</TD><TD borderColor=#990000 width="24%">Convenience Foods



Sweets
Chocolate
Microwave Meals
Tinned Foods
Powdered Soups
Instant Meals
Fast Food




</TD><TD borderColor=#990000 width="25%">Fats & Oils



Saturated Fats
Hydrogenated Oils
Margarine (worse than Butter)
Corn Oil
Vegetable Oil
Sunflower Oil




</TD></TR><TR class=ariel11 vAlign=top><TD>Fats & Oils



Flax
Hemp
Avocado
Olive
Evening Primrose
Borage
Oil Blends (such as Udos Choice)



</TD><TD>Others



Sprouts (soy, alfalfa, mung bean, wheat, little radish , chickpea, broccoli etc)
Bragg Liquid Aminos (Soy Sauce Alternative)
Hommous
Tahnini




</TD><TD borderColor=#990000>Fruits



All fruits aside from those listed in the alkaline column.



</TD><TD borderColor=#990000>Seeds & Nuts



Peanuts
Cashew Nuts
Pistachio Nuts




</TD></TR><TR class=ariel11><TD colSpan=2>General Guidance:



Stick to salads, fresh vegetables and healthy nuts and oils. Try to consume plenty of raw foods and at least 2-3 litres of clean, pure water daily.





</TD><TD vAlign=top borderColor=#990000 colSpan=2>General Guidance:



Steer clear of fatty meats, dairy, cheese, sweets, chocolates, alcohol and tobacco. Packaged foods are often full of hidden offenders and microwaved meals are full of sugars and salts. Over cooking also removes all of the nutrition from a meal!



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


How Alkaline Are YOU?



It may be very useful for you to see where you are now, and to test your alkalinity at various stages during your transition to an alkaline diet. For dietary testing, we offer pH testing kits (http://www.energiseforlife.com/item--Alkalive-pH-Stix-pH-Test-Strips--96.html), vitamin deficiency kits (http://www.energiseforlife.com/item--Vitamin-Mineral-Amino-Acid-Deficiency-Testing--TESTKIT0002.html) and food intolerance kits (http://www.energiseforlife.com/item--York-Test-Food-Intolerance-Indicator--TESTKIT0003.html).

To boost your alkalinity, we also offer a range of alkalising supplements from Alkalive (http://www.energiseforlife.com/cat--Alkalive--ALK.html), Innerlight (http://www.energiseforlife.com/cat--Innerlight-Supplements--INN.html), Tony Robbins (http://www.energiseforlife.com/cat--Inner-Balance--IBA.html) and Udo Erasmus (http://www.energiseforlife.com/cat--Udo%20Erasmus--UDO.html). These are incredibly useful in becoming more alkaline and all give a your body a boost of essential vitamins, minerals, fats and enzymes.



<!-- InstanceEndEditable --><!--<body onLoad="MM_preloadImages('../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c2_f3.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c2_f2.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c3_f3.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c3_f2.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c4_f3.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c4_f2.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c5_f3.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c5_f2.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c6_f3.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c6_f2.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c7_f3.gif','../images/top_menu_tabs_r2_c7_f2.gif')">-->I have heard of people taking meds for acidity getting off of them after starting on this diet.

I read Baroody's Alkalize or Die book which got me started and some claim that cancer cannot exist in an alkaline body.

(Some food for thought)

The last time I had a really good response was last Thursday, when I dosed the second I woke up, on a completely empty stomach, and had a caffeine-free latte instead of my normal cup of coffee. I'm going to go without coffee tomorrow, too, as I'm wondering if coffee might have something to do with it. I took my first and only dose today around noon, as I had two cups of coffee for breakfast and wanted to wait until it and breakfast were out of my stomach. I did notice that by the time I took the Adderall, I was already quite tired from the coffee wearing off.

THANKS FOR ALL THAT INFO!!! There is a woman who supports many of us on another forum (for another health condition altogether) - and she is ALWAYS TOUTING this "Alkaline Diet." I really want to try this.

How long was it before you felt a change? AND - were you able to stick to it very long?

THANKS!

Sue

Yup.

Before getting into other possibilities, it is good to see if the problem is with the drug itself.

1.How much are you taking per day (in mg)
2.What brand (Dexedrine, Adderall, Ritalin) ?
3.On any other Medications?

4.Take any herbals, over the counters, caffeine, etc?
5.What is your BP? (over 120/70?)

6.Any chest pain? Ever?
7.Shortness of Breath (SOB) when doing normal activities?
8.Short of breath on Exertion (SOBOE)?
9.What is your Respiration Rate? (respiration rate; normal is 12-20)

10.What is your body temperature? Above 98.6 (normal)?

11. How much sleep are you getting each night?
12. How much are you eating each day?
13. How much water/fluid are you getting each day?

14. What makes your severe fatigue better/worse?
15. Do you have these severe fatigue attacks ever when OFF your meds a few days?

you need to check things like blood sugar. caffeine can stimulate adrenaline release. that can then result in hypoglycemia (low blood sugar or a rapid decrease in normal levels of blood sugar... it's the rapid changes that cause the feeling not that the blood sugar level is actually very low) which causes extreme tiredness. i don't eat much in the way of carbohydrates (bread, pasta, rice, sugar, cookies, muffins, cakes, pastries, .... you get the picture?) because it causes rebound hypoglycemia and wreaks havoc in my ability to concentrate and have energy. i try to keep my blood sugar stable eating proteins, fats and some carbohydrates (no more than one slice of bread per meal) and it has made a huge difference. even to the next day... if i 'fall off the wagon' on a sunday, then mondays are drugged experiences. totally unpleasant and easily avoided.

yesterday i took dexedrine and i was definitely hyped up for a couple hours, but it still felt a little different than usual. more jumpy and less calm. and then, inevitably i got tired after about 3 hours and had to sleep.

i have not changed any medications queensugirl, and while my hands and feet feel pretty cold, i don't suspect any blood pressure or sugar issues as i tend to eat very well.

sargon, how long had you been taking the XR before it started to make you tired? had you been taking it every day? i am curious to see whether infrequent usage may have something to do with this, or whether it may be an issue of tolerance from continued usage.

the worst part about this whole ordeal, and it is really starting to depress me, is that for this week of tests i totally need to adjust my sleeping schedule. i am normally most productive late at night, and tend not to go to bed until after 2 am. when i had morning tests in the past, i would take a stimulant and the lack of sleep would not effect my performance. now that i feel i can't really on the stimulants anymore for this purpose, i am trying to get up earlier and readjust my sleep schedule which is making me tired all day and extremely unproductive when i should be most productive :( :(

i am really at a loss for what to do, and feel that despite getting straight A's throughout graduate school that i am now doomed on these tests.

I think solitary bee is on to something. I read an article about caffeine and hypotension, and I think it may be at the root of it. Frederickson, what are your coffee drinking habits? I would urge you to stop all caffeine consumption for a week and see what happens. Right now, I feel really good (dosed 2 hours ago) and I haven't had a cup of coffee since Saturday.

i don't drink much coffee, and none on days that i take a stimulant. oddly i found that caffeine alone (in anhydrous pill form) was hitting me strong quickly, and then also making me very tired.

two questions... sargon and others, are you overly stressed? i have heard that the combination of extreme stress and a stimulant can "overstimulate" the glutamate system of stress management, causing the brain to essentially shutdown and induce sleep.

also when you get tired shortly after taking the medicine (within an hour), do you feel a strong stimulant effect first and then get so tired that the adrenaline of an important situation might still not even keep you going? or at least clear up the fog?

the nightmare scenario for me would be if a wave of stimulant induced fatigue hit me DURING my tests, which would surely mean failure. so... after being extremely worried about this decision to the point of not being able to sleep, study, or do much of anything i have decided not to take adderall or dexedrine during the week of my huge tests.

while i will be at a disadvantage due to my not having stimulant on poor sleep (can never sleep the night before tests) and tendency to get distracted easily, i figure i can do as well as i can without being at risk for a true disaster situation if the meds wore off/made me tired during the 4 hour tests.

does this seem reasonable? even though i have been a miserable unproductive wreck the past few days, i really can't experiment with new meds or roll the dice that i will have a sleep-inducing reaction during the test.

please wish me luck!

Today, I was fine until late morning, then I started getting tired. But right after lunch, I picked back up again. This, I believe, supports the argument that it's related to blood sugar. Right now, I'm tired again, but I think it's just the meds wearing off. Could use a 5 mg. IR booster, but I want to make sure I sleep tonight, as I have a big day tomorrow. I definitely think there is merit to not taking the meds if there's any danger of extreme tiredness during exams. I have a stressful job, but I'm not experiencing it as particularly stressful right now, and I'm sleeping pretty well.

I have experienced the same thing frederickson. I have a couple points:
1) if you stomach is very acidic, I heard that acid can react with the adderall and reduce it's effectiveness. so maybe take it in the morning without any orange juice or acidic breakfastes. maybe eat some starches in the morning to soak up acids.
2) regardless if it's working full strength or not due to acid in stomach, I get the waves of tiredness. it was horrible, i didn't know when they'd come. I think, as you talk about teh caffeine pill, or any stimulant, what's going on is your body has a natural amount of energy it can output before it gets tired. stimulants increase this temporarily. but imagine what happens if you are tired naturally and then go and do a large amount of activity - it will make you super tired. the same thing is basically going on when you take stimulants ==> you are ACTUALLY tired but just don't feel it because of teh stimulants. so you go and do a lot of activity. but then when the stimulant wears off, what you feel is the NATURAL body situation now, where you've just overextended yourself (but not feeling it since you were on stimulants), and now are SUPER tired. that's not a bad thing , you're just feeling what is really going on with your body. and your body is telling you you need to rest, so you should go and rest. people who are on the stimulants all the time never get proper rest, I believe, and "blow out" their natural system of activity/rest cycle. for that reason, I stopped taking it. now , 2 weeks later, I'm still feeling the tiredness, but not as bad.. I plan to keep my adderall and use it as "go pills" every once in a while where i need to be up late, but not for ADD.

looking at the chart above of acid/alkaline foods, it has some errors. all citrus fruits are acidic. and dairy tends to be alkaline.

you have tomatoe right, a lot of people think of tomatoe as acid but it's very alkaline.

a good rule of thumb is this:

if it's bitter, then it's alkaline.
if it's sour then it's acid. certainly lemons are sour! and so you have it wrong , lemon should be under acid.

I'm having a good effect today. Better than yesterday, and it's now two full days without coffee. Did a 10 MG XR this morning at 6:30 and will take a 5 MG IR at 2:30 p.m.

I have always felt slow and tired on any amphetamine medicine or drug for that matter.

how has the adderall been affecting you recently sargon?

i had been having such anxiety and worry and inability to study that i really did not have much to lose yesterday and took an adderall 20 mg XR. it worked very well, calm and focused and actually reduced my anxiety.

now i'm anxious again thinking about whether i should use the adderall for my exams (i always have, tough to break the routine now).

I've had the same issue sometimes. I'm on regular adderall and not XR. I think this thread deserves the attention of some type of medical professional. I've seen this question posed in many threads here before.

Some people even talk of taking a pill before bedtime to help them get to sleep.

If you could answer the questions that QueensU_girl asked you that might be a good start for you.

Frederickson, did you take some time off from the meds? I wonder if that's a key to all of this. I agree, we need some experts to weigh in on this. That D.B. Cooper fellow seems to know a great deal.

I doubt it is a tolerance issue as I never took either of the drugs more than a couple times a week, and often took weeks off at a time.


I dont have time right now to read the other responses, but I want to share my opinion.

I think your problem is the fact that you only take it sporadically..?

Is that doctor's orders? I bet you are suffering withdrawl symptoms on the days you dont take it.

I take it every day, whether I am doing something that requires concentration or not........

Does anyone know why the drugs would basically all of a sudden have the opposite effect that they once had?I wish I knew why this happend. I am very curious about this too.

Adderall always made me feel very sedated, compared to Dexedrine which has always been quite stimulating for me. I have never been able to understand why I experience such a paradoxical reaction to one stimulant, and not to another.

Hopefully someone will come along with an answer to why this happens.