hi all,

first i want to say i love these forums--i've been reading them for 6 months now but never started posting.

second, i have something a little unpleasant to deal with (background information in following few paragraphs--if you want to cut to the chase scroll down to the next "---------" break).

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i have add inattentive type. like many others, i believed add was a 'made-up' disease or condition that anyone could be classified as... until one day when i read a detailed description online and started noticing some criteria/symptoms that were really descriptive of very unique, esoteric traits that i myself had (for example, trouble listening when spoken to directly among many others).

the strange thing about my case was that i had always been fairly successful in academics, although i never studied as much as i should have in highschool and was absolutely incapable of paying any attention to teachers (even though my friends listened without difficulty).
i would always have to ask a peer "what are we supposed to do?" after a teacher gave us instructions. often times, i was even embarrassed because i knew the teacher had just explained the assignment... still i was unable to listen.

at this point in my life i had (once) been given an adderall ir (5mg) by a friend while studying in the library. as those of us who take adderall regularly know, this isn't much, and i probably hardly felt it (although placebo did its duty). when i told my girlfriend id read about the symptoms of add online and thought i might have it, she blew it off. i was deeply affected, however, by how accurately some of the add traits reminded me of myself, and i didn't let it go that easily. i spoke with my father who has a phd in biochemistry, and he was a little dismissive but not entirely--actually, the reason i believe he acted this way was because he didn't like the 'stigma' people are given after being diagnosed. a few days later, back at my fathers house, i found books about parenting tips when your kids have add... and the books were thoroughly highlighted and underlined, etc.

obviously my dad had also realized i had add.

anyway, to make a long story short, i eventually went in to a psychiatrist, was diagnosed with adderall xr, and my dose slowly increased from 20mg to 30mg twice daily (60mg total) over the course of about 5 months. my psychiatrist is a very nice person and is good at what she does but she is no doctor and i am probably more knowledgable with regard to the chemical and biological effects of adderall than she is, so she is not much help on the technical side (these forums have helped a lot).

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now for the problem: i am not proud of this, and know that it is bad, but because my tolerance seemed to increase, i got in the habit of occasionally taking an extra pill (30mg, up to 90) when the meds didn't seem to be working. this was bad, i know, but it seemed to be very under control (i'd realize right away it was stupid and it wouldn't happen regularly).

somehow, over the past two to three weeks, the frequency of this has really increased and im taking about 90mg to 150mg xr about 3-4 days out of the week on average. this is not in one dose but over about 3-12 hours (one every 2 hours for example). and i do not 'snort' it or anything like that--everything is taken orally.

i know this is not okay, and with that in mind i told my doc id like to try strattera (i did not tell her im taking too much adderall occassionally). i am now on day 4 or 5 of that.

because i know what i have been doing is dangerous and it truly isn't what i want to do (i don't want to abuse a med!), i'm trying to come up with a plan for how to taper off the adderall. like i said, my doc knows nothing about the chemistry and i don't think she'd be able to help with this which is why i'm not involving her. i know from past experience that adbruptly ceasing adderall causes some really unpleasant tired and, to a lesser extent, depressed feelings. what i've read online suggests the way to go is tapering off your usage. basically, i have two questions:

1. i've been taking adderall for about 10 months total but only using too much for about 3 weeks and it has been intermittent (e.g. not every day, in fact most weekends i didnt take any). how long will it take for my body to get used to being without adderall? ive read that adderall is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, which has probably caused my body to compensate. is there anything i can do to get my body back on track? to help it not expect adderall?

2. do you think i should quit adderall entirely, or should i just decrease the dosage significantly (one idea was down to 30mg once daily as opposed to the prescribed 60mg)? it really works well when it works so i'm kind of upset about losing the benefits, but like i said i do not want to risk addiction or becoming a drug addict which is why i'm attacking this now.

3. do you have any tips for foods, supplements, vitamins, etc that can help your body erase any dependency on adderall (i read something about certain enzymes helping)?

4. my current plan is to stabalize at 50mg (total per day) for two weeks. after that i will move down 10mg per week until im at 0 (unless i decide i should stay at 30 or so total).

thanks, i really look forward to hearing your input (especially anything scientific / authoritative... it's surisingly hard to find information on this drug).

ps: id also love to hear from anyone else who has switched to strattera with success. i dont think i notice anything yet (4-5 days in at 18mg a day right now). i'm not 'doing' adderall for 'fun'--i take it because i have add and even though i recognize ive let myself lose control (to a small extent) i really want to treat the 'condition' if i can.

thanks guys and gals!
note: please don't reply telling me my doc should answer these questions and be involved... i dont think you're wrong and i think the advice is well-intentioned, but my doc would honestly probably tell me to talk to the pharmacist.. she knows very little about the drugs she prescribes.

Unfortunately my first thought is that you need a new doctor who knows more about the medications she's prescribing.

I'm sorry, at the moment I can't answer your questions. I know our straterra section does have a thread on success stories. I'll come back when I'm not on my way to bed. :)

Unfortunately my first thought is that you need a new doctor who knows more about the medications she's prescribing.

I'm sorry, at the moment I can't answer your questions. I know our straterra section does have a thread on success stories. I'll come back when I'm not on my way to bed. :)Cool, thanks a lot for even replying. I'm pretty embarrassed to talk about this because I'm so dissapointed in myself for not having better self control. It's frustrating because it's so easy to make a mistake (e.g. it takes 2 seconds to take an extra 30mg or whatever) and even if you realize it was a bad idea a minute later, there's not much you can do. I guess that's the nature of these kind of substances but I'm still pretty upset w/myself. I'm confident 'll get past it--I know it isn't okay and I haven't had addiction problems in the past--I'm just not looking forward to the way my body/mind will feel if I stop too abruptly.. maybe that's the only way, though. I'm also thinking I will give my girlfriend the prescription and have her 'dispense' it to me, at least for a while to make sure this doesn't keep happening... I think the main thing I have going for me and the thing that comforts me most is that I acknowledge and fully realize that this is bad and that I have a problem. While I've never had to deal with addiction (and, honestly, I don't think I'm addicted now, just an idiot) so I don't know how accurate this is, we always hear that the "first step" is admitting there's a problem.

By the way, does anyone know if you can get a tolerance to an increased dose in just a few days? For example, if you were normally taking 30mg but then for 3-4 days you took 60mg, when you went back to 30 the day after would it be less effective? Or is it a slower process?

cmil, i'd love to hear some of the answers to your questions. I am somewhat on the other side of the fence. I've recently been diagnosed with innattentive ADD basically ALL the same stuff you described (did ok in school, graduate school, ibanker etc..). I just started taking Strattera as my first med and it has been absolutely horrible for me. It has made me tired, irratable and much less motivated. I thought maybe I was on the wrong dose so I took one extra pill and it threw me for a major loop. I decided to stop it all together and i'm starting Adderall on Monday. Please keep me posted on what you find.

As far as the chemical reactions it is my understanding that strattera works on nurepinephrine and not dopimine. I've also been treated for depression in the past and tried Welbutrin which also didnt work for me, which also works on nurepinephrine. It is my understanding that Adderall works more on dopamine. Therefore I guess what i'm asking or saying is Strattera might not be the answer for you. Again, i'm only speaking from my experience and frankly I haven't even tried Adderall yet. I'll keep you posted. If you have any opinions on this I'd love to hear them.

cmil, i'd love to hear some of the answers to your questions. I am somewhat on the other side of the fence. I've recently been diagnosed with innattentive ADD basically ALL the same stuff you described (did ok in school, graduate school, ibanker etc..). I just started taking Strattera as my first med and it has been absolutely horrible for me. It has made me tired, irratable and much less motivated. I thought maybe I was on the wrong dose so I took one extra pill and it threw me for a major loop. I decided to stop it all together and i'm starting Adderall on Monday. Please keep me posted on what you find.

As far as the chemical reactions it is my understanding that strattera works on nurepinephrine and not dopimine. I've also been treated for depression in the past and tried Welbutrin which also didnt work for me, which also works on nurepinephrine. It is my understanding that Adderall works more on dopamine. Therefore I guess what i'm asking or saying is Strattera might not be the answer for you. Again, i'm only speaking from my experience and frankly I haven't even tried Adderall yet. I'll keep you posted. If you have any opinions on this I'd love to hear them.Too bad the Strattera didn't work for you, but I definitely wish you luck with the Adderall.

I think the worst problem I have had with adderall is that I obsess over whether or not it's working and end up planning my whole day around it, which is obviously not good. I think you have to think of it as a 'helping hand' but definitely not something you should rely on.

Just to update you guys in case anyone is following, I know it's only been a couple days but I've done quite well and don't think that there was any kind of increase in tolerance caused by taking too much a few times. Yesterday I took just 50mg which is actually less than my prescribed amount and didn't have any of the 'down' feelings I get when I have gone cold turkey in the past, so that's a real relief. I've also been planning on visiting some relatives in another country but didn't have any dates set, so I set those for about 6 weeks away from now which, if I stick to my plan, could be perfect in terms of giving me time to taper off the Adderall altogether prior to the trip. And once I leave, I'll have two weeks without any possibility of taking it sense I won't have it with me, so I hope that will help me break the pattern of taking it each day.

I've been taking Strattera for 6 days now at just 18mg per day and I think I might be starting to feel some of the positive effects, but I'm not sure.

For example, this morning when I woke up I actually felt like reading a book right away--I haven't had this urge first thing in the morning since I started on adderall because I always felt like I should wait until the adderall had kicked in sense it would be so much easier. Now I don't know if the Strattera was (or even could have been at just day 6 of 18mg) the reason I felt like reading this morning, but I really hope so. It would be such a relief and an improvement for me to be on a med that worked well and that didn't give you the "ok it's kicking in now" feeling because I end up just waiting for that and when it's gone I feel like I should take more (adderall) or otherwise I can't function optimally (even though this probably isn't true).

jkron, what did you feel when you upped your dosage on strattera (that you described as throwing you for a major loop)? And how quickly did this occur after taking the med? I really can't tell if the strattera is working or not yet but like I said earlier, I think it might be starting to.

PS: Has anyone else noticed how hard it is to get informative information on how these meds really work? I constantly find contradictions from one article to the next, not to mention the fact that 99% of the literature on Adderall is controversy and opinion, not medical fact. Frustrating! I'd even be willing to relearn some basic biochemistry to help me understand how the med works, but I can't find anything good (and I've been looking off and on for 6 months to a year).

Hey cmil, so there are alot of questions you have there and so im going to try and just give you a general idea and opinion of a response. Obviously, keep in mind that you would need to consult your doctor before trying anything.



So the good news is that you have only been on adderall for a relatively short period of 10 months. Now, the way adderall works does create great potential for substance abuse through its "stimulating" method of function. It is like any other "drug" including alcahol. The feeling that is accomplished through the use of such drugs is acquired by the drugs causing your brain to release/impede certain chemicals (such as dopamine) in an amount that your brain would ordinarily never do. This is what creates that "drunk" or "high". Overtime your body does become tolerant of any changes that come around and doesnt necessarily "compensate", rather you become used to the feeling.


So if you are looking to discontinue the use of adderall, you need to ask yourself why. And if it is because it has become dangerous on your hands; in other words it has become addictive, then yes you may want to discontinue it all together. But if you feel that it works for your add and that you just have become tolerant of it, then you may want to try different techniques/methods/and variance in everyday routine in terms of adderall and your body: Your diet is crucial to effectiveness. A healthy intake of vitamins and nutrition will help balance your body. Also Exercise is a great tool that is great for depression, maintaining health etc. For the short term, it may be a good idea to not take any adderall as you may be saturated with the chemical stimulants caused to release by adderall. You can think of your brain as a sponge that is soaked with chemicals and also dried out, so if you keep soaking it, it wont dry anything unless you stop and let it dry out before reusing it. Then slowly proceed to a cautionary intake again, maybe a 20mg a day or only on days when you need it. Again your doctor needs to approve anything you do. (Work with ur psych and your general physician together)


Hope this helps! Good luck

cmil, My experience with the Strattera was one of complete lethergy and disassociation. I upped my dose to 40mg from 25mg and I felt like the world slowwed down and it took me awhile to actually get my thoughts together. Personally that is not what i'm looking for. I like my ability work quick cognitively, even if it is all over the place. Strattera also gave me serious fatigue and just didn't want to talk to anyone. I could definately see how someone with the hyperactivity component would benefit from this drug, but for me i'm purely innattentive and have never had hyperactivity, which is also why it has taken me so long to figure out that ADD is probably my problem (i'm 34 yrs old).

So if you are looking to discontinue the use of adderall, you need to ask yourself why. And if it is because it has become dangerous on your hands; in other words it has become addictive, then yes you may want to discontinue it all together. But if you feel that it works for your add and that you just have become tolerant of it, then you may want to try different techniques/methods/and variance in everyday routine in terms of adderall and your body: Your diet is crucial to effectiveness. A healthy intake of vitamins and nutrition will help balance your body. Also Exercise is a great tool that is great for depression, maintaining health etc. For the short term, it may be a good idea to not take any adderall as you may be saturated with the chemical stimulants caused to release by adderall. You can think of your brain as a sponge that is soaked with chemicals and also dried out, so if you keep soaking it, it wont dry anything unless you stop and let it dry out before reusing it. Then slowly proceed to a cautionary intake again, maybe a 20mg a day or only on days when you need it. Again your doctor needs to approve anything you do. (Work with ur psych and your general physician together)Thanks for the reply!

A lot of what you have advised I've been trying to do over and over--particularly the exercise and nutrition components... the problem is, adderall really affects my hunger level. I try to force myself to eat as many calories as I know I should, but it's incredibly difficult when you just don't feel hungry.

I think your advice about slowly proceeding to a cautionary intake again is good as well... but I wonder how long it will take for my sponge, to borrow your term, will take to be completely cleared out. I know that if I were to take 20mg XR alone right now, I'd feel absolutely (or very close to) nothing... which I guess illustrates a tolerance. With regard to vitamins, do you just take them at night? That's what I've been trying to do, because I know that Vitamin C (among other things) negatively affects the absorption of adderall.

cmil, My experience with the Strattera was one of complete lethergy and disassociation. I upped my dose to 40mg from 25mg and I felt like the world slowwed down and it took me awhile to actually get my thoughts together. Personally that is not what i'm looking for. I like my ability work quick cognitively, even if it is all over the place. Strattera also gave me serious fatigue and just didn't want to talk to anyone. I could definately see how someone with the hyperactivity component would benefit from this drug, but for me i'm purely innattentive and have never had hyperactivity, which is also why it has taken me so long to figure out that ADD is probably my problem (i'm 34 yrs old).Damn! Just what I didn't want to hear :). You and I sound very similar w/regard to our ADD "types." How long did you give Strattera a chance for? You also might want to be careful with the adderall (I'm not saying not to take it, because it does work very well) just to make sure you avoid the issues I'm posting about--I know I could easily have avoided this problem if I weren't such a fool ;).

Thanks for the reply!

A lot of what you have advised I've been trying to do over and over--particularly the exercise and nutrition components... the problem is, adderall really affects my hunger level. I try to force myself to eat as many calories as I know I should, but it's incredibly difficult when you just don't feel hungry.

I think your advice about slowly proceeding to a cautionary intake again is good as well... but I wonder how long it will take for my sponge, to borrow your term, will take to be completely cleared out. I know that if I were to take 20mg XR alone right now, I'd feel absolutely (or very close to) nothing... which I guess illustrates a tolerance. With regard to vitamins, do you just take them at night? That's what I've been trying to do, because I know that Vitamin C (among other things) negatively affects the absorption of adderall.

It is a little odd that adderall still affects your hunger/appetite but doesnt seem to work in terms of stimulating you. Because, one is in reality a cause/effect of the other.

So, everyone is different and therefor you cant really say exactly how long it will take for you to become unsaturated, but from what it seems like in your self described patterns, a guess would be about two weeks. A solid two weeks without any stimulants and proper nutrition(healthy foods and necessary vitamins) and exercise(daily exercise helps increase metabolic efficiency and therefor body intake) should really help clear out your system. (btw, it seems that taking the vitamins at night is the most beneficial method as it does not conflict with meds and you still recieve your dose) It may be more time, maybe less, but that timeframe is probably a good start. About strattera, it likely will not be as effective as the adderall is, but it will also be less habit forming because it is a"non-stimulant" which is precisely why it wont be as effective. Try as best you can to control yourself. The fact that you are conscious of your overuse is crucial and essentially means that you have the ability to control yourself.

Over-dose usage notwithstanding, Adderall does not "build up" in the body, it is instantaneous (well, after the annoyingly long time it takes to have an effect that is) and the half-life is short enough to exclude any such thing as "saturation", really.

Over-dose usage notwithstanding, Adderall does not "build up" in the body, it is instantaneous (well, after the annoyingly long time it takes to have an effect that is) and the half-life is short enough to exclude any such thing as "saturation", really.

Hey CrazyFeet, Adderall itself, the amphetamine salt is not what we are referring to in terms of saturation, of course that will process through the body, but that is just a "spark or trigger" so to speak, that releases chems in the brain such as dopamine and seratonine. These chems work through inhibitors on a side of a synapse; which is essentially a gap through which chemicals/electrical charge "bridge" the gap thus creating a connection. Now, without going into extreme detail, the very basic principle of a synapse (gap) there is a side that releases the chem and then the other side absorbs it or inhibits it. So by altering the ordinary amount of inhibition, the chemical "builds up" in the gap (synapse) between either side causing what is referred to as saturation. This is the basic idea behind many neurological meds. It also how people achieve a "high" from certain drugs such as marijuana which increases chem release such as dopamine in the brain to an amount that the brain would never actually release in effect causing a high feeling. I hope that helps.

It is a little odd that adderall still affects your hunger/appetite but doesnt seem to work in terms of stimulating you. Because, one is in reality a cause/effect of the other.

So, everyone is different and therefor you cant really say exactly how long it will take for you to become unsaturated, but from what it seems like in your self described patterns, a guess would be about two weeks. A solid two weeks without any stimulants and proper nutrition(healthy foods and necessary vitamins) and exercise(daily exercise helps increase metabolic efficiency and therefor body intake) should really help clear out your system. (btw, it seems that taking the vitamins at night is the most beneficial method as it does not conflict with meds and you still recieve your dose) It may be more time, maybe less, but that timeframe is probably a good start. About strattera, it likely will not be as effective as the adderall is, but it will also be less habit forming because it is a"non-stimulant" which is precisely why it wont be as effective. Try as best you can to control yourself. The fact that you are conscious of your overuse is crucial and essentially means that you have the ability to control yourself.Thanks for the reply. I really can't tell you guys how awesome it is to have a forum to post at w/such helpful, nice people. I think that the lack of stimulation could possibly be a pyschological issue--because I've noticed that when I take adderall (especially when I take too much) it makes me want to smoke (I have only smoked cigarettes/hookah when partying in college and 'under the influence' of alcohol). I started reading online and saw that a lot of people have noticed the same 'urge' created by stimulants (I actually noticed people posting it about hard drugs like cocaine), so it would lead me to believe I am being stimulated.

Two weeks for the body to 'reset'--that's not too bad! I was afraid it would be much longer.

Also, thanks for pointing out the correlation between loss of appetite and stimulation! Great insight--I think I'd considered that before, but one characteristic of my type of ADD is thinking of stuff and then forgetting about it :).

Honestly, I think my biggest problem is that I am a very personally ambitious person and always want to improve myself and do productive activities, and I know that adderall has shown me the potential without ADD (or at least a reduction in it) so I sort of obsess over whether or not 'it's working' and simultaneously start worrying that it's going to 'wear off' (which gives me the BAD impulse to take more).

Anyway thanks again to everyone who replied, it's nice to be able to discuss this w/people who actually know something about the meds and condition (if that's what you call ADD).

Hey CrazyFeet, Adderall itself, the amphetamine salt is not what we are referring to in terms of saturation, of course that will process through the body, but that is just a "spark or trigger" so to speak, that releases chems in the brain such as dopamine and seratonine. These chems work through inhibitors on a side of a synapse; which is essentially a gap through which chemicals/electrical charge "bridge" the gap thus creating a connection. Now, without going into extreme detail, the very basic principle of a synapse (gap) there is a side that releases the chem and then the other side absorbs it or inhibits it. So by altering the ordinary amount of inhibition, the chemical "builds up" in the gap (synapse) between either side causing what is referred to as saturation. This is the basic idea behind many neurological meds. It also how people achieve a "high" from certain drugs such as marijuana which increases chem release such as dopamine in the brain to an amount that the brain would never actually release in effect causing a high feeling. I hope that helps.I understand completely how such medications as SSRIs work; I have taken many...I am also completely aware that stimulants do NOT work that way. I will be happy to provide research links to explain this :)

I understand completely how such medications as SSRIs work; I have taken many...I am also completely aware that stimulants do NOT work that way. I will be happy to provide research links to explain this :)I would really love any research links you have that cover adderall.

You can combine stratera with adderall if need be. It may help ease the transition. I should mention that I went through a period when I was affraid I was "addicted" to adderall but I came to feel I was just hypersensitive the stigma surrounding it. I can tell your the type of person who reseaches alot online like myself and it's easy to get a little paranoid over addiction. If your truely ADD then amphetamines have almost no addiction potential BUT 150mg a day is VERY, VERY high... however some people take 90mg a day. I have never taken more than 50% my perscribed dose... or about 30-45mg a day. I didn't like my heart rate at even 15mg IR doses..... I'm just saying try to keep it in perspective but in the end it's up to you. If you really feel you can't take the responcability then your doing the right thing. But it's my opinion that respoceable drug use is not always the same deffinition of the medical comunity. Remember... if the doctor perscribes it it's not addiction... but if you "perscribe it" then it is. Some doctors perscribe huge doses! See my point?

Thanks for the reply. Just to update anyone interested, it's all gone very well for me since this post. No more issues, and I'm only taking 50mg per day which is less than prescribed--and this is XR so I guess that means 25mg at a time.

Does anyone have any info on the microtrol delivery system or whatever its called used in XR? I read on wikipedia that it works by delivering half of the med instantly and half in 4 hours, but for me I don't feel this is happening. I can feel it 'kicking in' after about 45 minutes to an hour, and I feel it strongly until about the 3 hour mark, but after that point it tapers off.. I never feel a boost at 4.5 hours or so.

Anyway thanks again for all the replies, this board has been really great and helped me a lot.

Tomorrow I go cold turkey. I'm pretty nervous because I really hate being "down." If anyone has any advice for avoiding this feeling when you first stop taking adderall, please let me know, as I'm really not looking forward to a week or so of exhaustion.

Hey cmil - i know it's been 11 months, just wondering how you're doing?

Tomorrow I go cold turkey. I'm pretty nervous because I really hate being "down." If anyone has any advice for avoiding this feeling when you first stop taking adderall, please let me know, as I'm really not looking forward to a week or so of exhaustion.