I’m embarking on a long journey to get what is the holy grail of ADHD medications for some and the devil’s pill for others: desoxyn. I tried everything I could have access to and that where I’m know. If there is a molecule with the potential of helping me to turn my life over, why shouldn’t I try it?


I don’t expect it to be easy. I live in Canada and Desoxyn isn’t available here. Meanwhile it’s possible to import medicine of this kind with a special exemption of the Minister. Now, I need to convince my psy and it’s not going to be easy since it’s surely means a lot of paper work.

Wish me good luck. I will use this thread to keep you informed of my progress or lack of it.<O:p</O:p

Have you got your Testing done (and the Report)? This is often needed to get meds for Adults, especially specific ones.

Good luck..I haven't even heard of it..I'll go google :-)

Why desoxyn without first trying other available medications? :confused:

I tried everything I could have access to:
-Ritalin
-Ritalin SR
-Concerta
-Dexedrine
-Dexedrine time release
-Adderall XR
-Strattera
-Wellbutrin
-Modafinil
-Adrafinil

And I'm not counting "natural products" like fish oil and other stuff (nothing illegal). I even tried beta-blockers to counter the physical effects of stimulants. Low dose of any stimulant make me nervous, anxious and increase my beat rate. Desoxyn is supposed to be smoother on this side.

Have you got your Testing done (and the Report)? This is often needed to get meds for Adults, especially specific ones.I got all the test by more than one psychiatrist. The one I will try to see again to get involved in this process is specialized in ADHD. I hope she will be comprehensive.

Good luck..I haven't even heard of it..I'll go google :-)
No surprise. Desoxyn is somewhat taboo since it's methamphetamine. It's so obscur that even if it's an approved treatment, it doesn't deserve its section on this forum.

The junkies take much higher dose and they smoke it. It's considered to be highly addictive. The main reason of this is that you feel very little side effects compared to others amphetamines so you can take a load truck of it and feel great (for a while...). It's all about dosage and responsability.

Why desoxyn without first trying other available medications? :confused:CF CF CF LOL.don't you PAY ATTENTION ? I tried everything I could have access to and that where I’m knowhehehe

Heh I am out of meds...and I reckon that has a lot to do with it :foot: sorry OP!

How much cost a consultation with a physician in the USA? I might need an american prescription. It's going to be a lot of trouble since no refill is permitted.

I tried everything I could have access to:
-Ritalin
-Ritalin SR
-Concerta
-Dexedrine
-Dexedrine time release
-Adderall XR
-Strattera
-Wellbutrin
-Modafinil
-Adrafinil

And I'm not counting "natural products" like fish oil and other stuff (nothing illegal). I even tried beta-blockers to counter the physical effects of stimulants. Low dose of any stimulant make me nervous, anxious and increase my beat rate. Desoxyn is supposed to be smoother on this side.
I noticed that Focalin is not on your list. I would suggest that you talk to your Dr. about the possibility of trying Focalin before trying the Desoxyn. The main reason I suggest this is because Focalin was so different than any other form of methylphenidate that it actually felt like a completely novel substance to me.

.

It's so obscur that even if it's an approved treatment, it doesn't deserve its section on this forum.
I disagree with you completely about that statement. I feel that any treatment that is legally approved for the treatment of this dissorder should have its own section on this forum. Especially before any non-approved treatments for this dissorder are allowed their own section here. People should be aware of all the available approved options first and foremost. I did not find out about Desoxyn until about 8 years or so after I was diagnosed. It would have been a great tool for me to use if I had only known about it sooner. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to available treatment options, especially when they are time tested, and completely legal.

Having taken Desoxyn myself over the years I have found it to be the most therapuetic of all the prescription stimulants, and by far offered the least side effects for me.

How about we shorten it up a bit

"Ignorance is not bliss"

Lars is a wise man :D

My doctor was open minded enough to try Desoyxn (for the first time in his career) on me, due to my very poor response to almost all other medications and combinations of medications.

Desoxyn has cured all my add symptoms, which were very severe (including tics, huge hyperfocus vs inability to sit still, chronic oversleeping, and all the rest).

Every other drug had a big side effect. i.e. Adderall made me depressed, introverted, detatched, and obsessive. It also lasted about an hour, so even xr was constant pill popping.

Desoxyn has given me almost no side effects except for some appetite loss which has not affected my weight. It's not up and down - one dose a day and I'll get by, two doses and I'm covered 24/7 - I sleep better while on it too.

It's also done something wonderful to my motivation, social anxiety/ability to talk (i.e. extrovertedness), and energy. I lacked all three before and was coming to accept that as something incurable.

If I double up my dose I can feel the fringes of hypomania. So I feel I had whatever the opposite of mania is, and now I'm just "normal" at this dose. Every aspect of my life has got so much better since I started Desoxyn and I feel as though I'm finally "me", the person trapped inside the add all these years.

Maybe other people get these results without Desoxyn, but we're all different and this is what worked for me and I actually see less addiction potential because it's so smooth and long lasting. Also, at least for me, there is absolutely no high because of my strange add-related stimulant tolerance. i.e. I tried cocaine a few years ago. Felt nothing until I did a near-overdose sized line for a normal person, which just made me tired. So I didn't do that again ;p

It should be noted that this does have a VERY long half life compared to the other stims. What dose are you taking if I may ask? I'm glad to see your doing so well on it.

This does however bring up a somwhat retorical issue as to just where we should draw the line with ADD treatments.... whos to say that everyone (ADD types) would not do even better on it? How do you reconsile quality treatment vs. unreasonable performance enhancement? Do doctors have a valid point in NOT scripting it or is it purely political? Perhaps I'm just envyous.... I have never found anything to truely motivate me to do the things that need to be done and I know it's not "normal".... it's the number one thing I hate about ADD....alas it's cheap, crappy barr adderall for me. :(

I'm on 5mg tablets, 2-4x a day. I'm actually thinking of cutting to 2 and supplementing with dexedrine as needed. And this is coming from someone who has a huge tolerance/metabolism.

Regarding your open question, what's unreasonable performance enhancement? I think it's only unreasonable when the side effects or long term usage is damaging. However, I think our brains are wired in a way such that they can't sustain beyond "normal" long term. If I wasn't ADHD, I have no doubt I'd burn out and become a mess on Desoxyn pretty quickly. Ditto if I took more than my theraputic dose. To get really personal, I actually left my wife because she started stealing my meds. They ruined her life, whereas they saved mine.

So I think your original question is easier to answer than you suggest - we ADHD people just want to be normal, we can't be "unresaonably" advantaged on any drug even if we wanted to.

I noticed that Focalin is not on your list. I would suggest that you talk to your Dr. about the possibility of trying Focalin before trying the Desoxyn. The main reason I suggest this is because Focalin was so different than any other form of methylphenidate that it actually felt like a completely novel substance to me.

.
Focalin isn't available in Canada and I don't think it worth the trouble considering how bad I react to methyphenidate. I will read more about it. Maybe it's the levo form of methyphenidate that I have trouble with.

I disagree with you completely about that statement. I feel that any treatment that is legally approved for the treatment of this dissorder should have its own section on this forum. Especially before any non-approved treatments for this dissorder are allowed their own section here. People should be aware of all the available approved options first and foremost. I did not find out about Desoxyn until about 8 years or so after I was diagnosed. It would have been a great tool for me to use if I had only known about it sooner. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to available treatment options, especially when they are time tested, and completely legal.

Having taken Desoxyn myself over the years I have found it to be the most therapuetic of all the prescription stimulants, and by far offered the least side effects for me.Sorry, to have been misunderstood. I should have use another word than "deserve". In fact, I share you opinion. What I wanted to mean is that desoxyn is kept in obscurity, sadly.

Following the advice of Lars, I decided to add focalin to my list of US-meds-unavailable-in-canada-I-could-try. I did some research and discovered that a dextromethylphenidate pill has been approved in Canada since 2003</ST1:p. Its name is Attenade and the manufacturer is Biovail. Sadly, even if it’s approved, it’s not yet commercialized. I don’t know if Biovail has any plan to commercialize it.

Do doctors have a valid point in NOT scripting it or is it purely political? Perhaps I'm just envyous.... I have never found anything to truely motivate me to do the things that need to be done and I know it's not "normal".... it's the number one thing I hate about ADD....alas it's cheap, crappy barr adderall for me. :(
Good question. In the case of my Dr, he had never heard of Desoxyn before I mentioned it to him. He never knew it was an available option. I was just like FuriousBroccoli in that I was the first patient that my Dr. ever prescribed Desoxyn for. The results were wonderful, but both my Dr & myself were both sad that we had not learned about it sooner than we did.

As far as you finding something to truly motivate you, maybe you can find that in a drug. I can say that since I started taking stimulants for this dissorder in 1992 I have never been able to find a drug, and or combination of drugs that is what I would consider a "panacea" for all my symptoms. Sometimes I felt that I had found a "panacea," only to realize after a few days, or maybe a week that I was simply experiencing the "honeymoon" effect of a new drug.

I have found that some of these drugs certainlly work much better for me than their peers. From what I have read here at this site and elsewhere, it seems that some people do claim to experience complete relief from a certain drug, or a combination of drugs. I wish I could say I was one of those people.

.

Maybe a "Desoxyn awareness day" is needed :rolleyes:

Maybe a "Desoxyn awareness day" is needed :rolleyes:I could not agree with you more about this idea.

The only thing that I can think of that anyone would consider negative about this drug (from my personal reports of this drug) is how expensive it is. I only wish more people were aware of it as an available option since most people have insurance, and for those people with insurance, cost is really a non-issue.

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Ok. There is two ways I can use to get to my goal.

1. Passing thru the Canadian healthcare system

Step 1: I need to convince a physician (I will try to convince my former psychiatrist) to get a special exemption for me. It’s not sure that it’s going to be approved for adhd since it’s not considered a “severe” condition nor is it life-threatening.

Step 2: I need to get the drug imported. Since they are stimulant, it’s not going to be an easy task.
If I import it my self, I have to do it in person and go in the US to buy it. The problem is that it’s not sure that an American pharmacy will accept a Canadian prescription for this kind of drug. I heard that a special prescription is needed for desoxyn. Is that true?

Maybe a registered importer could get the drug. The ease the process, I would need to be part of a trial with a psychiatrist affiliated to a University. I don’t believe a psychiatrist is going to create a trial program just for me but I don’t close this door.

2. Direct access to the American healthcare system

This one is the “simplest” way and consists of one giant step: Get a prescription for an American physician. I can travel to Maine or Vermont in about 5 hours. I need to find a very comprehensive psychiatrist there! I’m wondering how much it would cost me. Could I take some kind of insurance?
If I could get my psychiatrist in touch with an American psychiatrist, it would be the best of both ways.

Depending on your education and what kind of work you've done or do, you may be able to get TN or H1B status in the US and work here. I'm from Quebec originally as well, so let me know if that's an option for you and are interested.

Working in the U.S. to get a medication... it would be a last resort solution! I'm not sure my girl friend would agree with that... I have a B.S. in Computer Science and 1/3 of a MBA. I'm looking for a job where my ADHD wouldn't be too much of a problem. Programming is real pain when you have ADHD...

Why the 'quest to be on Desoxyn-do you think it will be 'the magic pill'? Most reports, even Lars says he'd rather be on Dex for it's greater motivating and drive features. All you trouble to get a pill which is, to be frank available in other forms on any city street corner. Take the best of whats around and keep it?:rolleyes: .

I'm not considering Desoxyn (Or Focalin, I added it to my "list") a magic pill more than I would consider Ritalin or Dexedrine a magic pill. However, if you read reviews about it on this forum or remedyfind.com you will see that the success rate is quite high even among people who did not react well to others meds. For me, ADHD is a serious condition affecting negatively my quality of life. When I talk about this, the most common reaction is “Get over it”. People don’t understand how important it is to me. I will “get over it” when I will be sure there is nothing I can do about it. <O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

Street version of methamphetamine is impure and of variable quality, often with chemical left over by the process. I don’t want to take that kind of risk. The common dosage for Desoxyn is 10 mg, it's a small quantity and hard to mesure precisely.<O:p</O:p

http://www.ovationpharma.com/images/products/desoxyn/mininfo-1.jpg:)

Yes i agree it seems to top the lists at Remedyfind for combined ADD, Narcolepsy. The folks who have posted say it's the best they tried.

It pre 2000 came in 5-15mg SR doses, but only 5mg IR, as pictured now. I have read of someone taking 60-80mgs for over 40 years for Narcolepsy without becoming a burnt out type, so sans abuse it's fairly safe.

Good luck.

This med is my holy grail. I would dream getting prescribed this. I didn't you could get a "special license" to get it in Canada... I'm in Canada also and it really ****es me off to not be able to get it. The worst thing is that it's only because of Methamphetamine's social taboo status that it's not avalaible here. A simple dose does a better job than the etremely axiogenic Adderall XR with MUCH less nasty side effects.

Who the **** makes does laws and control the drugs?!?!

I’m not a lawyer and I have limited understanding of what I have found so far. If I want to get Desoxyn using the Canadian system, I need an exemption by the Minister (I think):

Exemption by Minister
56. The Minister may, on such terms and conditions as the Minister deems necessary, exempt any person or class of persons or any controlled substance or precursor or any class thereof from the application of all or any of the provisions of this Act or the regulations if, in the opinion of the Minister, the exemption is necessary for a medical or scientific purpose or is otherwise in the public interest
http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-38.8/bo-ga:l_V::bo-ga:l_VI//en?page=4&isPrinting=false#codese:56


If you have a prescription, you can import a 30 days supply of a controlled substance.:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/substancontrol/pol/pol-docs/travellers-voyageurs_e.html

You need to get a prescription from an American Physician to buy Desoxyn in the U.S.

Hows your quest going to get these?:

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/rxdrugprofiles/drugs/images/P05328E6.jpg

I just asked my psyc doc's nurse about this. She said she would ask him and get back to me. She called me back and said "HE dosen't use that medication."


Anyways, I am on 80 mg of reg. adderall a day. Its just not the same anymore though. I have been on it for a long time now, since '99. I tried Dexadrine and ritalin (and concerta). They all make me extremly emotional. Strattera didn't do anything for me what so ever.

I guess me and my doc will be talkin about it at my next appointment.:eyebrow:

If "he doesn't use that med" whats to talk about?

I meant he will talk to me about why I thought of that and what to do about the current situation with the Adderall. I have noticed a definate decline in my work productivity in the last few months. I feel it is partly due to the Adderall not working as well as it used to.:cool:

I spoke with my doc about Desoxyn a few weeks ago. He'd never heard of it and it wasn't in his PDA either. My next appointment in a few weeks I'll try to bring in the prescription info from Ovation to show him. He seems pretty open about my suggestions and I'd like to at least compare it to Adderall and Dexedrine.


J

I spoke with my doc about Desoxyn a few weeks ago. He'd never heard of it and it wasn't in his PDA either. My next appointment in a few weeks I'll try to bring in the prescription info from Ovation to show him. He seems pretty open about my suggestions and I'd like to at least compare it to Adderall and Dexedrine.

This remind my when I talked about Adderall to my doc. Adderall had been available for about 3 months and I told he that he wouldn't find it in his book. After trying to find it, he gave me this answer: "It exist only on the internet". I got another doc...

Hows your quest going to get these?:


Well, it's pretty much on hold now. It's clear that I'm not going to get any help from my doctors so I'm on my own. Anyway, it would be impossible to them to prescribe it. I need an American doctor.

I contacted the Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH). They have highly reputed specialist of ADHD. Also, there is a program for international patients. They can provide me a quotation of the "treatments". I guess that it must be unusual that an international patient seek for psychiatric "treatment". The idea is to get an evaluation (and prescription) from them and having it transferred to a doctor close to the border. By car, Boston is a 7 hours trip from Quebec City. It wouldn't be practical to get a prescription every month (needed for desoxyn, I think).

I could try focalin before. At least, I wouldn't need to refill my prescription every month. Anyway, the problem now is money. I'm jobless and can't afford this adventure. I expect the overall expense to be in the 1000 - 3000$ range.

So, I will "get over it" for some time and do my best to live normally without medication. I will get a job and see how I do.

Working in the U.S. to get a medication... it would be a last resort solution! I'm not sure my girl friend would agree with that... I have a B.S. in Computer Science and 1/3 of a MBA. I'm looking for a job where my ADHD wouldn't be too much of a problem. Programming is real pain when you have ADHD...
Computer Science! How appropriate.

We're hiring in our test department. There are programming and non-programming jobs involved. Testing suits ADDers well because it is extremely difficult for a manager to tell how well his employees are testing the product. It's as difficult to know how well somebody is doing his work in this field as it is to do the work itself. So that gives you the flexibility of doing the work at your own pace. And what I've noticed is people who think all over the place (like ADDers) are more apt to think outside the box and find those really weird, hard-to-find bugs in software.

Plus, we arrange work permits (TN, H1B) for canadians. Your girlfriend could work at the Canadian Consulate in San Francisco, since that job is "in Canada". There is a large group of english and french canadians that hang out around here so you can feel somewhat at home. The salaries are awesome here (fresh out of school grad would start at about 75k US and quickly move on up from there). And the medical perks: 0$ copay on medication, 0$ copay on doctor visits.

Oh yeah, and it's not -40 outside :P

Just ping me if you're interested :)

Thanks for your offer. It could be interesting to work in California. My brother is there. Sadly, it would be impossible for my girlfriend to move. She is deaf and getting a job in an english environment would be much harder than in french.

One thing that can sometimes help with your meds is to take period breaks from them. Because stimulents made my tics worse, I started taking them only when I really needed them and find that I get a lot more mileage out of them then I did when taking them daily. Exercise can also help your medication work more effectively.

I'd be real careful in asking for desoxyn, even though I understand for some folks it really works well. You might scare your doctor off from giving you any kind of stimulent medication, even though your motives might be perfectly pure, if he decides your just trying to get a hold of a popular street drug legally.

Scattered

One thing that can sometimes help with your meds is to take period breaks from them. Because stimulents made my tics worse, I started taking them only when I really needed them and find that I get a lot more mileage out of them then I did when taking them daily. Exercise can also help your medication work more effectively.

I'd be real careful in asking for desoxyn, even though I understand for some folks it really works well. You might scare your doctor off from giving you any kind of stimulent medication, even though your motives might be perfectly pure, if he decides your just trying to get a hold of a popular street drug legally.

Scattered
This would be an option if meds worked from the beginning. My Peripheral nervous system is too sensible for conventional stimulants. Anyway, I decided to go unmedicated for some time.

This would be an option if meds worked from the beginning. My Peripheral nervous system is too sensible for conventional stimulants. Anyway, I decided to go unmedicated for some time.I was responding to the original thread question. I probably should have referenced it with a direct quote. I can't use stimulents with any regularity these days either or I'm ticking like a grandfather clock.

Take care,
Scattered

PLEASE think about trying Focalin... that drug is like a miracle for me, and I haven't found anything else that works. Adderall works maybe 1 out of 4 times that I take it; the rest of the time, it feels like it doesn't do anything (and I've been all over the map with dosage.) It really doesn't even have side effects; it just... doesn't do anything. The Ritalin patch was NOT good for me. If I ever have to switch medications, my doctor wants me to try Metadate or Provigil, but I LOVE Focalin!! :) And it's so much easier to get that Desoxyn!! Give it a try and see how you do.

Hey Anise, and welcome to the forums. I agree with you concerning Focalin.

Having taken Desoxyn several times over the years, I would certainlly recommend that Focalin be tried first before going for Desoxyn. I found Focalin to have virtually no side effects either. Even though Focalin is a part of the methylphenidate family so to speak, it's effects or side effects are anything but, from my experience. I found it to be very beneficial, and if it was not as expensive as it is, I would likely have tried it out for much longer.

That being said, Desoxyn is a wonderful drug, and for many people it is simply the only thing that works. I love Desoxyn and I consider it to be among the most therapeutic among all the prescription stimulants, however it is very expensive, and it also tends to cause me to experience very mild sedation. It's not pronounced sedation per se, and whenever I am not in school I actually like the mellow feeling it provided me. However as a full time college senior who is also preparing to take the MCAT, the last thing I need at this time is any sedation concering my ADD medication.

We all respond differently to these things, but I think that Focalin is certainlly one of the most overlooked drugs for this dissorder, next to Desoxyn that is. ;)

I'll also chime in with a vote for Focalin. I've recently tried Focalin XR 20mg courtesy of the free coupon. Way different experience than my trial with Concerta 54mg. Concerta gave a powerful sense of mental stimulation but had a lot of other bad effects such as bad drowsiness that progressed as the day went on. Focalin XR was a powerful stimulant but didn't give me any drowsiness or anything bad. I would choose to stay on it but Adderall seems to be a little better for me. Adderall gives me a little more of a benefit with my mood in addition to helping me pay attention but as we all know, meds vary from person to person.

J

If I decide to go ahead with my plan, I will ask for Focalin first. It would be much easier to import this drug. A focalin equivalent as been approved in Canada about 3 years ago but never commercialized. I don't know why.

I'm following this conversation with interest. I'm an inattentive type and my current regimen is 400 mgs of Wellbutrin and 20-40 mgs of generic methylphenidate. This combination sounds like a "silver bullet," but it seems to just make me hyperactive and spacy rather than lethargic and spacy. This combination has not kept my career from being badly impacted by ADD.

Since I get only partial relief from methylphenidate, my doctor has indicated that he would be willing to prescribe amphetamines, up to and including Desoxyn. (He has ADD himself, and is not stimulant-phobic.) However, I have hesitated to take him up on the offer.

Are there any inattentives on this thread that have had improved results when they switched from Ritalin to amphetamines?

I'm grateful that lurking in this forum has taught me that all stimulants are not the same. I wish you luck in your quest for something that really works.

Ritalin to Desoxyn will make you a lot of good! But you would have to stop the Wellbutrin...

.
Are there any inattentives on this thread that have had improved results when they switched from Ritalin to amphetamines?
Hi Phred, and welcome to the forum.

I'm an inattentive who has experienced profound differences between methylphenidate and various forms of amphetamine.

Both Dexedrine & Desoxyn have been very hard to beat from my experience. Considering the fact that Desoxyn cost $2.00 a pill, it would cost me $24.00 a day to dose as prescribed. In contrast it cost me $3.00 a day to dose with the Mallinckrodt 5mg dextroamphetamine tablets. I have concluded that the Desoxyn, abeit a great drug offering great differences, is not so great as to justify the extreme price difference; for me at least.
.

Any updates?

I also have tried all the stimulants and have had the same reaction as you. I'm going to see a new add specialist on monday and I have read her site pretty well. She said that many people who experience the side effects you are describing do better with tenex or clonidine added to it. Anyway I'll probably be giving it a try myself, I'll let you know how it works for me.

Check out her site:
http://www.ncpamd.com/Watkins.htm

I finally gave up on the idea of getting desoxyn. As a canadian, it would have been a lot of trouble and might well turn out to be impossible. The other reason is that any stimulant worsen my tinnitus, especially dexedrine, to a point I can no longer tolerate any. I'm pretty sure desoxyn would do the same.

Since I begun to use Wellbutrin again, things improved a lot. I'm more or less out of depression and I could even say that I'm functionnal at work. I spent the last two years in the realm of so called "nootropics". Name something, I tried it! I take large dose of piracetam pretty much everyday combined with either CDP-Choline or Alpha-GPC. I exercise more too, which make a big difference.

I came to the conclusion that my memory issues are more a burden than my concentration problems. It's probably the case for many I-Adders. Sometimes, it's terrible how I struggle to retrieve information or to simply hold something in my short-term memory. I have trouble speaking when this happen. Piracetam+choline helps quite well on this side.

Sounds like a good plan I wish you luck in finding something that works for you.

Just don't expect too much from Desoxyn. It's very expensive too I hear :(

Jackinbox, it might be worth considering, since peripheral stimulation is an issue for you and you cannot acquire desoxyn to try, adjunct guanfacine with (for instance) dextroamphetamine, which some doctors are using, the combination purportedly reducing peripheral "adrenergic" side effects such as increased blood pressure, heart rate, jitteriness, perhaps tinnitus, etc.