View Full Version : My quest to get Desoxyn


Jackinbox
01-13-07, 03:49 PM
Iím embarking on a long journey to get what is the holy grail of ADHD medications for some and the devilís pill for others: desoxyn. I tried everything I could have access to and that where Iím know. If there is a molecule with the potential of helping me to turn my life over, why shouldnít I try it?


I donít expect it to be easy. I live in Canada and Desoxyn isnít available here. Meanwhile itís possible to import medicine of this kind with a special exemption of the Minister. Now, I need to convince my psy and itís not going to be easy since itís surely means a lot of paper work.

Wish me good luck. I will use this thread to keep you informed of my progress or lack of it.<O:p</O:p

QueensU_girl
01-13-07, 07:26 PM
Have you got your Testing done (and the Report)? This is often needed to get meds for Adults, especially specific ones.

~boots~
01-13-07, 11:48 PM
Good luck..I haven't even heard of it..I'll go google :-)

Crazy~Feet
01-14-07, 12:55 AM
Why desoxyn without first trying other available medications? :confused:

Jackinbox
01-14-07, 01:39 AM
I tried everything I could have access to:
-Ritalin
-Ritalin SR
-Concerta
-Dexedrine
-Dexedrine time release
-Adderall XR
-Strattera
-Wellbutrin
-Modafinil
-Adrafinil

And I'm not counting "natural products" like fish oil and other stuff (nothing illegal). I even tried beta-blockers to counter the physical effects of stimulants. Low dose of any stimulant make me nervous, anxious and increase my beat rate. Desoxyn is supposed to be smoother on this side.

Jackinbox
01-14-07, 01:45 AM
Have you got your Testing done (and the Report)? This is often needed to get meds for Adults, especially specific ones.I got all the test by more than one psychiatrist. The one I will try to see again to get involved in this process is specialized in ADHD. I hope she will be comprehensive.

Jackinbox
01-14-07, 01:53 AM
Good luck..I haven't even heard of it..I'll go google :-)
No surprise. Desoxyn is somewhat taboo since it's methamphetamine. It's so obscur that even if it's an approved treatment, it doesn't deserve its section on this forum.

The junkies take much higher dose and they smoke it. It's considered to be highly addictive. The main reason of this is that you feel very little side effects compared to others amphetamines so you can take a load truck of it and feel great (for a while...). It's all about dosage and responsability.

~boots~
01-14-07, 09:17 AM
Why desoxyn without first trying other available medications? :confused:CF CF CF LOL.don't you PAY ATTENTION ? I tried everything I could have access to and that where Iím knowhehehe

Crazy~Feet
01-14-07, 01:40 PM
Heh I am out of meds...and I reckon that has a lot to do with it :foot: sorry OP!

Jackinbox
01-14-07, 02:06 PM
How much cost a consultation with a physician in the USA? I might need an american prescription. It's going to be a lot of trouble since no refill is permitted.

lars
01-14-07, 06:09 PM
I tried everything I could have access to:
-Ritalin
-Ritalin SR
-Concerta
-Dexedrine
-Dexedrine time release
-Adderall XR
-Strattera
-Wellbutrin
-Modafinil
-Adrafinil

And I'm not counting "natural products" like fish oil and other stuff (nothing illegal). I even tried beta-blockers to counter the physical effects of stimulants. Low dose of any stimulant make me nervous, anxious and increase my beat rate. Desoxyn is supposed to be smoother on this side.
I noticed that Focalin is not on your list. I would suggest that you talk to your Dr. about the possibility of trying Focalin before trying the Desoxyn. The main reason I suggest this is because Focalin was so different than any other form of methylphenidate that it actually felt like a completely novel substance to me.

.

lars
01-14-07, 06:25 PM
It's so obscur that even if it's an approved treatment, it doesn't deserve its section on this forum.
I disagree with you completely about that statement. I feel that any treatment that is legally approved for the treatment of this dissorder should have its own section on this forum. Especially before any non-approved treatments for this dissorder are allowed their own section here. People should be aware of all the available approved options first and foremost. I did not find out about Desoxyn until about 8 years or so after I was diagnosed. It would have been a great tool for me to use if I had only known about it sooner. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to available treatment options, especially when they are time tested, and completely legal.

Having taken Desoxyn myself over the years I have found it to be the most therapuetic of all the prescription stimulants, and by far offered the least side effects for me.

Zach326
01-14-07, 06:55 PM
How about we shorten it up a bit

"Ignorance is not bliss"

Lars is a wise man :D

FuriousBroccoli
01-15-07, 02:30 AM
My doctor was open minded enough to try Desoyxn (for the first time in his career) on me, due to my very poor response to almost all other medications and combinations of medications.

Desoxyn has cured all my add symptoms, which were very severe (including tics, huge hyperfocus vs inability to sit still, chronic oversleeping, and all the rest).

Every other drug had a big side effect. i.e. Adderall made me depressed, introverted, detatched, and obsessive. It also lasted about an hour, so even xr was constant pill popping.

Desoxyn has given me almost no side effects except for some appetite loss which has not affected my weight. It's not up and down - one dose a day and I'll get by, two doses and I'm covered 24/7 - I sleep better while on it too.

It's also done something wonderful to my motivation, social anxiety/ability to talk (i.e. extrovertedness), and energy. I lacked all three before and was coming to accept that as something incurable.

If I double up my dose I can feel the fringes of hypomania. So I feel I had whatever the opposite of mania is, and now I'm just "normal" at this dose. Every aspect of my life has got so much better since I started Desoxyn and I feel as though I'm finally "me", the person trapped inside the add all these years.

Maybe other people get these results without Desoxyn, but we're all different and this is what worked for me and I actually see less addiction potential because it's so smooth and long lasting. Also, at least for me, there is absolutely no high because of my strange add-related stimulant tolerance. i.e. I tried cocaine a few years ago. Felt nothing until I did a near-overdose sized line for a normal person, which just made me tired. So I didn't do that again ;p

Bipolarruledout
01-15-07, 05:44 AM
It should be noted that this does have a VERY long half life compared to the other stims. What dose are you taking if I may ask? I'm glad to see your doing so well on it.

This does however bring up a somwhat retorical issue as to just where we should draw the line with ADD treatments.... whos to say that everyone (ADD types) would not do even better on it? How do you reconsile quality treatment vs. unreasonable performance enhancement? Do doctors have a valid point in NOT scripting it or is it purely political? Perhaps I'm just envyous.... I have never found anything to truely motivate me to do the things that need to be done and I know it's not "normal".... it's the number one thing I hate about ADD....alas it's cheap, crappy barr adderall for me. :(

FuriousBroccoli
01-15-07, 07:08 AM
I'm on 5mg tablets, 2-4x a day. I'm actually thinking of cutting to 2 and supplementing with dexedrine as needed. And this is coming from someone who has a huge tolerance/metabolism.

Regarding your open question, what's unreasonable performance enhancement? I think it's only unreasonable when the side effects or long term usage is damaging. However, I think our brains are wired in a way such that they can't sustain beyond "normal" long term. If I wasn't ADHD, I have no doubt I'd burn out and become a mess on Desoxyn pretty quickly. Ditto if I took more than my theraputic dose. To get really personal, I actually left my wife because she started stealing my meds. They ruined her life, whereas they saved mine.

So I think your original question is easier to answer than you suggest - we ADHD people just want to be normal, we can't be "unresaonably" advantaged on any drug even if we wanted to.

Jackinbox
01-15-07, 11:54 AM
I noticed that Focalin is not on your list. I would suggest that you talk to your Dr. about the possibility of trying Focalin before trying the Desoxyn. The main reason I suggest this is because Focalin was so different than any other form of methylphenidate that it actually felt like a completely novel substance to me.

.
Focalin isn't available in Canada and I don't think it worth the trouble considering how bad I react to methyphenidate. I will read more about it. Maybe it's the levo form of methyphenidate that I have trouble with.

Jackinbox
01-15-07, 11:58 AM
I disagree with you completely about that statement. I feel that any treatment that is legally approved for the treatment of this dissorder should have its own section on this forum. Especially before any non-approved treatments for this dissorder are allowed their own section here. People should be aware of all the available approved options first and foremost. I did not find out about Desoxyn until about 8 years or so after I was diagnosed. It would have been a great tool for me to use if I had only known about it sooner. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to available treatment options, especially when they are time tested, and completely legal.

Having taken Desoxyn myself over the years I have found it to be the most therapuetic of all the prescription stimulants, and by far offered the least side effects for me.Sorry, to have been misunderstood. I should have use another word than "deserve". In fact, I share you opinion. What I wanted to mean is that desoxyn is kept in obscurity, sadly.

Jackinbox
01-15-07, 01:48 PM
Following the advice of Lars, I decided to add focalin to my list of US-meds-unavailable-in-canada-I-could-try. I did some research and discovered that a dextromethylphenidate pill has been approved in Canada since 2003</ST1:p. Its name is Attenade and the manufacturer is Biovail. Sadly, even if itís approved, itís not yet commercialized. I donít know if Biovail has any plan to commercialize it.

lars
01-15-07, 07:32 PM
Do doctors have a valid point in NOT scripting it or is it purely political? Perhaps I'm just envyous.... I have never found anything to truely motivate me to do the things that need to be done and I know it's not "normal".... it's the number one thing I hate about ADD....alas it's cheap, crappy barr adderall for me. :(
Good question. In the case of my Dr, he had never heard of Desoxyn before I mentioned it to him. He never knew it was an available option. I was just like FuriousBroccoli in that I was the first patient that my Dr. ever prescribed Desoxyn for. The results were wonderful, but both my Dr & myself were both sad that we had not learned about it sooner than we did.

As far as you finding something to truly motivate you, maybe you can find that in a drug. I can say that since I started taking stimulants for this dissorder in 1992 I have never been able to find a drug, and or combination of drugs that is what I would consider a "panacea" for all my symptoms. Sometimes I felt that I had found a "panacea," only to realize after a few days, or maybe a week that I was simply experiencing the "honeymoon" effect of a new drug.

I have found that some of these drugs certainlly work much better for me than their peers. From what I have read here at this site and elsewhere, it seems that some people do claim to experience complete relief from a certain drug, or a combination of drugs. I wish I could say I was one of those people.

.

Jackinbox
01-15-07, 08:43 PM
Maybe a "Desoxyn awareness day" is needed :rolleyes:

lars
01-16-07, 05:33 AM
Maybe a "Desoxyn awareness day" is needed :rolleyes:I could not agree with you more about this idea.

The only thing that I can think of that anyone would consider negative about this drug (from my personal reports of this drug) is how expensive it is. I only wish more people were aware of it as an available option since most people have insurance, and for those people with insurance, cost is really a non-issue.

.

Jackinbox
01-16-07, 10:20 AM
Ok. There is two ways I can use to get to my goal.

1. Passing thru the Canadian healthcare system

Step 1: I need to convince a physician (I will try to convince my former psychiatrist) to get a special exemption for me. Itís not sure that itís going to be approved for adhd since itís not considered a ďsevereĒ condition nor is it life-threatening.

Step 2: I need to get the drug imported. Since they are stimulant, itís not going to be an easy task.
If I import it my self, I have to do it in person and go in the US to buy it. The problem is that itís not sure that an American pharmacy will accept a Canadian prescription for this kind of drug. I heard that a special prescription is needed for desoxyn. Is that true?

Maybe a registered importer could get the drug. The ease the process, I would need to be part of a trial with a psychiatrist affiliated to a University. I donít believe a psychiatrist is going to create a trial program just for me but I donít close this door.

2. Direct access to the American healthcare system

This one is the ďsimplestĒ way and consists of one giant step: Get a prescription for an American physician. I can travel to Maine or Vermont in about 5 hours. I need to find a very comprehensive psychiatrist there! Iím wondering how much it would cost me. Could I take some kind of insurance?
If I could get my psychiatrist in touch with an American psychiatrist, it would be the best of both ways.

pedalpounder
01-16-07, 11:58 AM
Depending on your education and what kind of work you've done or do, you may be able to get TN or H1B status in the US and work here. I'm from Quebec originally as well, so let me know if that's an option for you and are interested.

Jackinbox
01-16-07, 05:17 PM
Working in the U.S. to get a medication... it would be a last resort solution! I'm not sure my girl friend would agree with that... I have a B.S. in Computer Science and 1/3 of a MBA. I'm looking for a job where my ADHD wouldn't be too much of a problem. Programming is real pain when you have ADHD...

attention
01-17-07, 10:26 AM
Why the 'quest to be on Desoxyn-do you think it will be 'the magic pill'? Most reports, even Lars says he'd rather be on Dex for it's greater motivating and drive features. All you trouble to get a pill which is, to be frank available in other forms on any city street corner. Take the best of whats around and keep it?:rolleyes: .

Jackinbox
01-17-07, 05:35 PM
I'm not considering Desoxyn (Or Focalin, I added it to my "list") a magic pill more than I would consider Ritalin or Dexedrine a magic pill. However, if you read reviews about it on this forum or remedyfind.com you will see that the success rate is quite high even among people who did not react well to others meds. For me, ADHD is a serious condition affecting negatively my quality of life. When I talk about this, the most common reaction is ďGet over itĒ. People donít understand how important it is to me. I will ďget over itĒ when I will be sure there is nothing I can do about it. <O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

Street version of methamphetamine is impure and of variable quality, often with chemical left over by the process. I donít want to take that kind of risk. The common dosage for Desoxyn is 10 mg, it's a small quantity and hard to mesure precisely.<O:p</O:p

attention
01-17-07, 09:08 PM
http://www.ovationpharma.com/images/products/desoxyn/mininfo-1.jpg:)

Yes i agree it seems to top the lists at Remedyfind for combined ADD, Narcolepsy. The folks who have posted say it's the best they tried.

It pre 2000 came in 5-15mg SR doses, but only 5mg IR, as pictured now. I have read of someone taking 60-80mgs for over 40 years for Narcolepsy without becoming a burnt out type, so sans abuse it's fairly safe.

Good luck.

Darksanity
01-17-07, 10:42 PM
This med is my holy grail. I would dream getting prescribed this. I didn't you could get a "special license" to get it in Canada... I'm in Canada also and it really ****es me off to not be able to get it. The worst thing is that it's only because of Methamphetamine's social taboo status that it's not avalaible here. A simple dose does a better job than the etremely axiogenic Adderall XR with MUCH less nasty side effects.

Who the **** makes does laws and control the drugs?!?!

Jackinbox
01-18-07, 02:11 AM
Iím not a lawyer and I have limited understanding of what I have found so far. If I want to get Desoxyn using the Canadian system, I need an exemption by the Minister (I think):

Exemption by Minister
56. The Minister may, on such terms and conditions as the Minister deems necessary, exempt any person or class of persons or any controlled substance or precursor or any class thereof from the application of all or any of the provisions of this Act or the regulations if, in the opinion of the Minister, the exemption is necessary for a medical or scientific purpose or is otherwise in the public interest
http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-38.8/bo-ga:l_V::bo-ga:l_VI//en?page=4&isPrinting=false#codese:56


If you have a prescription, you can import a 30 days supply of a controlled substance.:
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/substancontrol/pol/pol-docs/travellers-voyageurs_e.html

You need to get a prescription from an American Physician to buy Desoxyn in the U.S.

attention
01-25-07, 11:35 AM
Hows your quest going to get these?:

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/rxdrugprofiles/drugs/images/P05328E6.jpg

jennyjay
01-25-07, 11:55 AM
I just asked my psyc doc's nurse about this. She said she would ask him and get back to me. She called me back and said "HE dosen't use that medication."


Anyways, I am on 80 mg of reg. adderall a day. Its just not the same anymore though. I have been on it for a long time now, since '99. I tried Dexadrine and ritalin (and concerta). They all make me extremly emotional. Strattera didn't do anything for me what so ever.

I guess me and my doc will be talkin about it at my next appointment.:eyebrow:

attention
01-25-07, 12:45 PM
If "he doesn't use that med" whats to talk about?

jennyjay
01-25-07, 12:54 PM
I meant he will talk to me about why I thought of that and what to do about the current situation with the Adderall. I have noticed a definate decline in my work productivity in the last few months. I feel it is partly due to the Adderall not working as well as it used to.:cool:

JR1973
01-25-07, 01:51 PM
I spoke with my doc about Desoxyn a few weeks ago. He'd never heard of it and it wasn't in his PDA either. My next appointment in a few weeks I'll try to bring in the prescription info from Ovation to show him. He seems pretty open about my suggestions and I'd like to at least compare it to Adderall and Dexedrine.


J

Jackinbox
01-26-07, 11:33 AM
I spoke with my doc about Desoxyn a few weeks ago. He'd never heard of it and it wasn't in his PDA either. My next appointment in a few weeks I'll try to bring in the prescription info from Ovation to show him. He seems pretty open about my suggestions and I'd like to at least compare it to Adderall and Dexedrine.

This remind my when I talked about Adderall to my doc. Adderall had been available for about 3 months and I told he that he wouldn't find it in his book. After trying to find it, he gave me this answer: "It exist only on the internet". I got another doc...

Jackinbox
01-26-07, 11:53 AM
Hows your quest going to get these?:


Well, it's pretty much on hold now. It's clear that I'm not going to get any help from my doctors so I'm on my own. Anyway, it would be impossible to them to prescribe it. I need an American doctor.

I contacted the Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH). They have highly reputed specialist of ADHD. Also, there is a program for international patients. They can provide me a quotation of the "treatments". I guess that it must be unusual that an international patient seek for psychiatric "treatment". The idea is to get an evaluation (and prescription) from them and having it transferred to a doctor close to the border. By car, Boston is a 7 hours trip from Quebec City. It wouldn't be practical to get a prescription every month (needed for desoxyn, I think).

I could try focalin before. At least, I wouldn't need to refill my prescription every month. Anyway, the problem now is money. I'm jobless and can't afford this adventure. I expect the overall expense to be in the 1000 - 3000$ range.

So, I will "get over it" for some time and do my best to live normally without medication. I will get a job and see how I do.

pedalpounder
01-26-07, 01:37 PM
Working in the U.S. to get a medication... it would be a last resort solution! I'm not sure my girl friend would agree with that... I have a B.S. in Computer Science and 1/3 of a MBA. I'm looking for a job where my ADHD wouldn't be too much of a problem. Programming is real pain when you have ADHD...
Computer Science! How appropriate.

We're hiring in our test department. There are programming and non-programming jobs involved. Testing suits ADDers well because it is extremely difficult for a manager to tell how well his employees are testing the product. It's as difficult to know how well somebody is doing his work in this field as it is to do the work itself. So that gives you the flexibility of doing the work at your own pace. And what I've noticed is people who think all over the place (like ADDers) are more apt to think outside the box and find those really weird, hard-to-find bugs in software.

Plus, we arrange work permits (TN, H1B) for canadians. Your girlfriend could work at the Canadian Consulate in San Francisco, since that job is "in Canada". There is a large group of english and french canadians that hang out around here so you can feel somewhat at home. The salaries are awesome here (fresh out of school grad would start at about 75k US and quickly move on up from there). And the medical perks: 0$ copay on medication, 0$ copay on doctor visits.

Oh yeah, and it's not -40 outside :P

Just ping me if you're interested :)

Jackinbox
01-29-07, 07:51 PM
Thanks for your offer. It could be interesting to work in California. My brother is there. Sadly, it would be impossible for my girlfriend to move. She is deaf and getting a job in an english environment would be much harder than in french.

Scattered
01-29-07, 08:03 PM
One thing that can sometimes help with your meds is to take period breaks from them. Because stimulents made my tics worse, I started taking them only when I really needed them and find that I get a lot more mileage out of them then I did when taking them daily. Exercise can also help your medication work more effectively.

I'd be real careful in asking for desoxyn, even though I understand for some folks it really works well. You might scare your doctor off from giving you any kind of stimulent medication, even though your motives might be perfectly pure, if he decides your just trying to get a hold of a popular street drug legally.

Scattered

Jackinbox
01-29-07, 11:26 PM
One thing that can sometimes help with your meds is to take period breaks from them. Because stimulents made my tics worse, I started taking them only when I really needed them and find that I get a lot more mileage out of them then I did when taking them daily. Exercise can also help your medication work more effectively.

I'd be real careful in asking for desoxyn, even though I understand for some folks it really works well. You might scare your doctor off from giving you any kind of stimulent medication, even though your motives might be perfectly pure, if he decides your just trying to get a hold of a popular street drug legally.

Scattered
This would be an option if meds worked from the beginning. My Peripheral nervous system is too sensible for conventional stimulants. Anyway, I decided to go unmedicated for some time.

Scattered
01-30-07, 12:10 AM
This would be an option if meds worked from the beginning. My Peripheral nervous system is too sensible for conventional stimulants. Anyway, I decided to go unmedicated for some time.I was responding to the original thread question. I probably should have referenced it with a direct quote. I can't use stimulents with any regularity these days either or I'm ticking like a grandfather clock.

Take care,
Scattered

Anise
02-02-07, 01:40 AM
PLEASE think about trying Focalin... that drug is like a miracle for me, and I haven't found anything else that works. Adderall works maybe 1 out of 4 times that I take it; the rest of the time, it feels like it doesn't do anything (and I've been all over the map with dosage.) It really doesn't even have side effects; it just... doesn't do anything. The Ritalin patch was NOT good for me. If I ever have to switch medications, my doctor wants me to try Metadate or Provigil, but I LOVE Focalin!! :) And it's so much easier to get that Desoxyn!! Give it a try and see how you do.

lars
02-02-07, 01:58 AM
Hey Anise, and welcome to the forums. I agree with you concerning Focalin.

Having taken Desoxyn several times over the years, I would certainlly recommend that Focalin be tried first before going for Desoxyn. I found Focalin to have virtually no side effects either. Even though Focalin is a part of the methylphenidate family so to speak, it's effects or side effects are anything but, from my experience. I found it to be very beneficial, and if it was not as expensive as it is, I would likely have tried it out for much longer.

That being said, Desoxyn is a wonderful drug, and for many people it is simply the only thing that works. I love Desoxyn and I consider it to be among the most therapeutic among all the prescription stimulants, however it is very expensive, and it also tends to cause me to experience very mild sedation. It's not pronounced sedation per se, and whenever I am not in school I actually like the mellow feeling it provided me. However as a full time college senior who is also preparing to take the MCAT, the last thing I need at this time is any sedation concering my ADD medication.

We all respond differently to these things, but I think that Focalin is certainlly one of the most overlooked drugs for this dissorder, next to Desoxyn that is. ;)

JR1973
02-02-07, 10:32 AM
I'll also chime in with a vote for Focalin. I've recently tried Focalin XR 20mg courtesy of the free coupon. Way different experience than my trial with Concerta 54mg. Concerta gave a powerful sense of mental stimulation but had a lot of other bad effects such as bad drowsiness that progressed as the day went on. Focalin XR was a powerful stimulant but didn't give me any drowsiness or anything bad. I would choose to stay on it but Adderall seems to be a little better for me. Adderall gives me a little more of a benefit with my mood in addition to helping me pay attention but as we all know, meds vary from person to person.

J

Jackinbox
02-04-07, 03:07 PM
If I decide to go ahead with my plan, I will ask for Focalin first. It would be much easier to import this drug. A focalin equivalent as been approved in Canada about 3 years ago but never commercialized. I don't know why.

Phred
02-04-07, 06:32 PM
I'm following this conversation with interest. I'm an inattentive type and my current regimen is 400 mgs of Wellbutrin and 20-40 mgs of generic methylphenidate. This combination sounds like a "silver bullet," but it seems to just make me hyperactive and spacy rather than lethargic and spacy. This combination has not kept my career from being badly impacted by ADD.

Since I get only partial relief from methylphenidate, my doctor has indicated that he would be willing to prescribe amphetamines, up to and including Desoxyn. (He has ADD himself, and is not stimulant-phobic.) However, I have hesitated to take him up on the offer.

Are there any inattentives on this thread that have had improved results when they switched from Ritalin to amphetamines?

I'm grateful that lurking in this forum has taught me that all stimulants are not the same. I wish you luck in your quest for something that really works.

Darksanity
02-12-07, 11:19 PM
Ritalin to Desoxyn will make you a lot of good! But you would have to stop the Wellbutrin...

lars
02-12-07, 11:50 PM
.
Are there any inattentives on this thread that have had improved results when they switched from Ritalin to amphetamines?
Hi Phred, and welcome to the forum.

I'm an inattentive who has experienced profound differences between methylphenidate and various forms of amphetamine.

Both Dexedrine & Desoxyn have been very hard to beat from my experience. Considering the fact that Desoxyn cost $2.00 a pill, it would cost me $24.00 a day to dose as prescribed. In contrast it cost me $3.00 a day to dose with the Mallinckrodt 5mg dextroamphetamine tablets. I have concluded that the Desoxyn, abeit a great drug offering great differences, is not so great as to justify the extreme price difference; for me at least.
.

k10magic
04-10-08, 07:40 PM
Any updates?

kwalk
04-10-08, 09:11 PM
I also have tried all the stimulants and have had the same reaction as you. I'm going to see a new add specialist on monday and I have read her site pretty well. She said that many people who experience the side effects you are describing do better with tenex or clonidine added to it. Anyway I'll probably be giving it a try myself, I'll let you know how it works for me.

Check out her site:
http://www.ncpamd.com/Watkins.htm

Jackinbox
04-14-08, 07:06 PM
I finally gave up on the idea of getting desoxyn. As a canadian, it would have been a lot of trouble and might well turn out to be impossible. The other reason is that any stimulant worsen my tinnitus, especially dexedrine, to a point I can no longer tolerate any. I'm pretty sure desoxyn would do the same.

Since I begun to use Wellbutrin again, things improved a lot. I'm more or less out of depression and I could even say that I'm functionnal at work. I spent the last two years in the realm of so called "nootropics". Name something, I tried it! I take large dose of piracetam pretty much everyday combined with either CDP-Choline or Alpha-GPC. I exercise more too, which make a big difference.

I came to the conclusion that my memory issues are more a burden than my concentration problems. It's probably the case for many I-Adders. Sometimes, it's terrible how I struggle to retrieve information or to simply hold something in my short-term memory. I have trouble speaking when this happen. Piracetam+choline helps quite well on this side.

ozchris
04-14-08, 10:24 PM
Sounds like a good plan I wish you luck in finding something that works for you.

Just don't expect too much from Desoxyn. It's very expensive too I hear :(

trying
07-22-08, 12:27 PM
Jackinbox, it might be worth considering, since peripheral stimulation is an issue for you and you cannot acquire desoxyn to try, adjunct guanfacine with (for instance) dextroamphetamine, which some doctors are using, the combination purportedly reducing peripheral "adrenergic" side effects such as increased blood pressure, heart rate, jitteriness, perhaps tinnitus, etc.

calvary1980
07-26-08, 03:23 PM
I wasn't aware Dexosyn was in canada. I thought all we had was dexedrine, ritalin, vyvanse, strattera, concerta, wellbutrin. by the way does anybody know if there are any generic versions of these?

- Christine

Jackinbox
07-27-08, 01:24 AM
I wasn't aware Dexosyn was in canada. I thought all we had was dexedrine, ritalin, vyvanse, strattera, concerta, wellbutrin. by the way does anybody know if there are any generic versions of these?

- Christine

No, it's not. I wanted to get it from the US but it's way too complicated since methamphetamine is a regulated substance.

calvary1980
07-28-08, 02:09 AM
back up. lol we have Focalin in Canada?

- Christine

Jackinbox
07-29-08, 09:12 PM
back up. lol we have Focalin in Canada?

- Christine

Last time I checked, Dexmethylphenidate (Focalin) was not availaible in Canada. It has been approved under the name Attenade a few years ago but has not been commercialised yet.

calvary1980
07-30-08, 01:43 AM
this is what Canada has.

http://www.purdue.ca/pdf/Pill%20Brochure%202007%20eng.pdf

we have a drug the americans don't have called biphentin.

it's essentially concerta but with some minor differences.

biphentin comes in 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 80 mig capsules. concerta comes in 18, 27 and 54 mig capsules. biphentin releases 44% of it's medication within metabolization. concerta only releases 22%.

whats the difference between apo and pms methylphenidate?

- Christine

Batman55
08-01-08, 02:26 AM
Interesting, some other folks here who also get serious peripheral nervous system effects from stimulants...

Really, what gives? How and why?

For instance I have ADHD and most stimulants cause serious anxiety, increase in blood pressure, and a high energy effect. Isn't that how stimulants tend to work on people *without* ADHD?

What gives?

I have heard of the beta-blocker and the Guanfacine/tenex solution, but I'm too apprehensive to try it...

calvary1980
08-01-08, 03:49 AM
anybody can take stimulants but I think people who don't have ADD are more prone to scatterbrain but they usually only take it for the euphoric effects anyways. if your anxiety is that bad your doctor can put you on a benzodiazepine. a regiment of water pills and beta blockers will help your blood pressure.

- Christine

Batman55
08-02-08, 02:02 AM
I take stimulants for both the mood-lifting buzz AND the focus; for me it's almost like the mood lift begets the focus, they're almost tied in...

When I was a drug addict, I was fooling around with dextroamphetamine and found that relatively low doses of it could cause euphoria for me; but at the same time I also get some terrible side effects of anxiety, increase in blood pressure, and other scary things (the side effects increased the longer I had the addiction... suggesting a "reverse tolerance"...)

So, I'm someone with ADHD who also likes the euphoric effects of stimulants. Pretty rare I guess...

SuzzanneX
08-02-08, 02:14 AM
not at all

SuzzanneX
08-02-08, 02:16 AM
The roller-coaster ride begins with a tremendous rush accompanied by feelings of elation and confidence. Unlimited power seems to be at the speeder's fingertips. The pupils dilate; the heart pumps frantically, breathing is rapid, and the mucous membranes get dry. Speech becomes rata-tat-tat gibberish. The user may focus in on one thing to the exclusion of everything else. But the speeder doesn't care because he feels he is at the height of his intellectual powers. This initial flash of brilliance is succeeded by a euphoria, an elevated mood; as the body continues to release stored energy from its reserves; Physically as well as mentally charged up, he feels capable of superman feats. Life is a cartoon and the speeder is the Roadrunner.

The high level of vitality begins to decline as the body's energy. stores are depleted. Restlessness, nervousness, and agitation replace nirvana. The speeder's irritability progresses to paranoia, fatigue, and depression as the ride comes to an end. The roller coaster has -hit bottom. Headache, palpitations, dizziness, agitation, apprehension, and confusion have replaced ecstasy.

Over? So soon? Well, that's easy to correct, reasons the speeder. All I have to do is pop another upper, So the roller coaster chugs into action once again, setting into motion the vicious cycle known as the amphetamine jag. Since tolerance develops rapidly with use of amphetamines, the user needs to increase the dosage each time just to keep up. Feeling down? Pop an up. And so it goes, until the speeder is into a "run," staying up for four or five days at a time, unable to eat or sleep until he "crashes," falling into a deep sleep that can last for eighteen hours.

The sleep of the speeder is hardly refreshing, however, since the dream cycle is interrupted by the drug. True dreams are not experienced. When he awakens, he's ready for another run, and it's deja vu time, up and down on the carnival ride. if the amphetamine is injected, the effects become more intense and the jag is shortened to days instead of weeks. Methedrine is a favorite for this form of self-abuse, called "speeding."

Other patterns of abuse involve barbiturates, either alternating with amphetamines or combined. If the user can't sleep after he pops an upper, he may take a barbiturate to knock him out. To bring back his high, he takes another upper, thereby establishing an upper-downer -cycle. "Goofballs," combined amphetamine-barbiturates such as Dexamyl, are for those who get off on the stimulant-depressant combination. The heavy goofball user can unknowingly become addicted- to barbiturates.

Escalation of dosage, whether through repeated low doses over a period of time, high doses in sequence, or a single large dose, may create a toxic reaction known as amphetamine psychosis, lasting from a few days to a few weeks. The short term reactions to the drug are magnified, leading to an exaggeration of effects.

Loss of appetite may become anorexia, a state in which it becomes difficult for the user to eat at all. Extreme weight loss occurs, and even the act of swallowing becomes difficult. Speed freaks aware of this phenomenon may force themselves to eat and take vitamins, but malnutrition, can still occur.

Insomnia, lasting a day or two for moderate users, extends into days or even weeks during a "run," before the heavy user crashes. Hallucinations, misperceptions, and inability , to function accompany insomnia, and may persist even with abstinence. Consciously aware that he is slipping into a world of delusion, the speeder can do little more than watch as anxiety and suspicion fill the vacuum that was once occupied by reality.

Sooner or later, the high dose user will experience paranoia, with its feelings of persecution. He skulks about, certain the little old lady with the wrinkled stockings is following him. He is positive the kids on the corner are talking about him, his best friends are plotting behind his back, and his girlfriend is poisoning his toothpaste. "Crank bugs," the feeling of insects under the skin (fornication), harass him, and he has begun compulsively picking at his now-delicate skin forming ulcerations. Hypomania, a form of repetitive action, overcomes the speed freak, producing behavior often considered bizarre, such as foot-tapping, coin-flipping, or construction of elaborate, useless mechanical devices. Jaw grinding, tremors, abscesses, and tooth loss are common symptoms of heavy amphetamine use. Several years of aging can occur in just a few months. Sexual performance is impaired and the user can't find words to describe how he feels. He vocabulary drops to a few hundred words, including such pithy quotes as "far out" and "gotanyspeed?"

"Speed kills" is the warning, scary but inaccurate. In fact, amphetamines themselves rarely kill, even in enormous doses. Some of the long-term side effects may kill, but death, when it occurs, usually comes from violence, common to the speed. freak. Paranoia, mood shifts, hyperactivity, and the resulting intensification of emotions, combined with the inevitable change of lifestyle - the hustling, the dealing, the, cheating: necessary for survival in he chaotic community of speed freaks-leads to, a high level of violence, including rape, homicide, and assaultive behavior. When the speeder combines the mainlining. of barbiturates along with amphetamines, results can be disastrous. Irrational and dangerous, this variety of speed freak has not only the downer-induced compulsion for violence, but the upper induced energy to do it.

The long-term effects of amphetamine abuse may kill. Malnutrition can lead to an increased susceptibility to disease and bacterial infection. Although pill-poppers are susceptible to most of the same detrimental reactions as needle freaks, injection may lead to even further complications. Needle related diseases such as viral hepatitis, leading to Ever damage, occur; and the shooting of impure amphetamines containing materials not dissolvable in water may lead to blockage or weakening of small blood vessels, causing kidney and hag damage. ?A correlation exists between heavy users and-strokes, aneurisms, hematomas, destruction: of the brain by picnosis of the brain cells, and other cardiovascular disruptions.

Illegally obtained amphetamines are genuine about 70 percent of the time. Common antihistamines, inducing some of the effects of speed, are often passed off as the 1 thing, The insecticide Rotenone, sometimes offered, may. cause nausea; vomiting, muscle tremors, increased respiration, and numbness.

Street speed, the home-cooked stuff,. may include ingredients such as lactose, Epsom salts, quinine, baking powder, ether, insecticides, MSG, photo developer, and: strychnine. Heavy freaks may even prefer theses additives because they have developed a tolerance to the weaker solutions and the impurities may produce a more intense flash. Poisonous-adulterants can cause death, since the intravenous use of these will bypass natural bodily rejection, such as vomiting.

Amphetamine psychosis is considered by some to be a manifestation of pre-existing paranoid tendencies, a latent amphetamine personality which blossoms with the taking of the drug. Emotionally troubled before he enters the speed scene, dependent on other drugs or alcohol, the user's sense of insecurity and ineffectiveness vanishes with the euphoria of speed. Others feel that anyone givers a large enough amount of-amphetamines will eventually become psychotic.







and that too. (author unknown)

CallieT
11-03-09, 11:59 PM
:D
Hey Everyone!

Anyone here from the Boston, MA area able to find a pharmacy who carries Desoxyn? If so, where and what locations have you inquired about or found?

Searching for a local pharmacy in Boston or surrounding towns. Any help or comments would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


Callie

It is not fair to us, that there are some rotten apples who abuse and make a bad name for something which can help people like us function normally, or experience normalcy for a short time!

BoringMike
11-05-09, 04:09 PM
walgreens and CVS will carry desoxyn. They won't have it on hand but they'll order it for you.

Yellow
11-08-09, 11:08 AM
you know, ive tried nearly everything so far (IR): focalin, dexedrine, and adderall.

I am now on:

zoloft 50mg 1x
neurontin 600mg 1x
clonazepam .5mg 1-3x

MY ADHD MEDS:

dexedrine/focalin 0-50mg 3x

i hated adderall, focalin and dexedrine are similar to me, but i dont know if its quite right yet. the only one left is desoxyn, but if dexedrine didnt work, i doubt desoxyn will, and i am hesitant about neurotoxicity.

Anyone with a similar med background have any input/advice/suggestions, as in should i ask about desoxyn or just stick with whats done?

(pls keep in mind, i got serotonin syndrome when combingin with a high dose SNRI, but now I am on low dose SSRI)

thnx

merovingian
12-12-09, 03:20 AM
i hated adderall, focalin and dexedrine are similar to me, but i dont know if its quite right yet. the only one left is desoxyn, but if dexedrine didnt work, i doubt desoxyn will, and i am hesitant about neurotoxicity.

Anyone with a similar med background have any input/advice/suggestions, as in should i ask about desoxyn or just stick with whats done?

Neurotoxicity is a concern. I believe you need to supplement any adderall, Dexedrine and other amphedamines (or methamphetamine) with both an anti-oxident which crosses the blood brain barrier such as vitamine C and L-tyrosine as a precurser for dopamine production. Lots of this stuff comes naturally in a well balanced diet but I like to play it safe and take my daily supplements. With desoxyn, you might be well advised to take 5-HTP due to the extra serotonin release. This is based on my research, I am not a medical professional nor have I received this advice from one. Without telling you what my doc says about it, I would advise anyone taking these meds to run it by their doc to see what they have to say.

I'd try everything if you get a chance. I said it before, work your way from the bottom up in terms of dosage (I didn't like desoxyn in the very beginning). I hated ritalin, addreall gave me a headache but was better, Desoxyn and Dexedrine kills my appetite. Everything is a trade off and I recommend trying it all unless you have a history of serious addiction or substance abuse.

My personal advice about your meds, especially desoxyn which is what I take now, is that...

- you take the weekends off as you can build a tolerance which sucks.
- take as little as you need to stay focused and no more. I take 15mg twice a day M-F.
- it's similar to Dexedrine (to me). I like Dexedrine and Desoxyn because they allow me harness my ADD creativity which I consider the add gift and would not trade it to be "normal". For me, Dexedrine had less unwanted side effects but did much less to help me focus. Desoxyn has a strong loss of appetite side effect for me personally which means I have to sort of time my lunch meals although this tapers off considerably after about 2 months. You can eat though, it's a little weird cause you just don't feel hungry and yet you don't feel full, it's... like I said it's a little weird at first.

I work in a field where sometimes I have to work 15 hour days and if I take my third dose than I can't sleep which sucks but I'm not aware of any med that doesn't keep you up on that work schedule.

I'm trying different meds too at the moment. I want either focalin or perhaps even provigil for when I'm not on desoxyn so I can focus at all times without building up a tolerance to the Desoxyn.

As far as the clonazepam, I take xanax once every few days 1/4 of a .25mg (a very small dose) pill just to take the edge off cause I feel it's better for me than alcohol but I would not personally take a sizable dose of benzos daily for tolerance and possible addiction concerns. But I'm perhaps overly careful about that stuff. Have you tried lexipro or buspar for prolonged anxiety issues?

Hope it helps.

suzanneh
12-14-09, 09:04 PM
I wanted Desoxyn too. Montana Medicaid would pay for SIX 15 mg Dexadrine daily, but only ONE Desoxyn!! Desoxyn works really well, but Dex is second best.

Yellow
12-15-09, 01:29 PM
lota good advice and suggestions there. thanks

as for benzos, i take klonpin/neurontin for bipolar, not so much for anxiety. zoloft is itself an antianxiety pill and probably more effective than lexapro, especially at the dose im on, and im also on that for bipolar (buspar is good for anxiety, but like i said, bipolar is the issue and anxiety comes along with it). i dont take dex or klonopin everyday, i take nuerontin at bedtime. i avoid takin my dex or kpin because of tolerance/dependance as u mentioned. but also, beause of the 5htp release, i dont think desoxyn would work with zoloft because of serotonin syndrome which is something that i dont want again (i had that with pristiq, an snri, and dexedrine)

grrr
02-07-10, 07:32 PM
noone has suggested making your own....its fairly easy. there is a book by one "dr. buzz" that will help. this is not a decision to be made lightly.

soulexodus
02-10-10, 06:05 PM
noone has suggested making your own....its fairly easy. there is a book by one "dr. buzz" that will help. this is not a decision to be made lightly.


http://blog.internetnews.com/apatrizio/facepalm%5B1%5D.jpg

scuter
05-03-10, 02:17 PM
I'm following this conversation with interest.

Are there any inattentives on this thread that have had improved results when they switched from Ritalin to amphetamines?

I found this forum lazily researching Desoxyn, as [after years exhausting every other [?] possible option] I think I'm at the stage now where I'm resigned to having to move to the US or Chile just to get it together and be functional again.

To your question, yes! Ritalin [for me] was pathetically ineffective - although obviously that's largely due to the fact that stimulants have made me nauseous, jittery and anxious since my first cup of tea as a child. I react to Concerta the same way. And I suspect I will have a similar reaction to Adderall - although I haven't yet given it a chance, due to discovering it was possible to get Desoxyn [albeit laced with impurities] on the street [dangerously and endlessly frustratingly - largely due to inconsistencies which make it correct dosage impossible].

It is not fair to us, that there are some rotten apples who abuse and make a bad name for something which can help people like us function normally, or experience normalcy for a short time!

Callie, whilst the 'unfairness' of society's unfathomable ignorance as it relates to our predicament is acutely felt by fewer than I...I can't skim past your post without comment. Your position [as stated above] is just ludicrous.

I empathise with the frustration, don't get me wrong - but blaming those who have a substance abuse problem who [gasp] wish to abuse safer meth than source street poison sold as meth by criminals...I mean, it's that level of ignorance which is responsible for the tragic and criminal legislation that is Prohibition.

You don't ban automobiles because some drivers cannot drive responsibly. You don't ban remote controls because some 'adventurous' types insert them into orifices they should not be inserted into. You don't ban all small objects because children could swallow and choke on them. You don't ban surgery just because some surgeons are incompetent.

You don't ban humanity because some humans are inhumane.

You don't punish innocents who suffer from a medical condition purely because you [stupidly] believe drug abusers will abuse their meds. That would be....criminal. Not to mention so unbelievably stupid it...defies belief.

"We don't want you abusing pharmaceutical meth. We'd prefer you to abuse street 'meth' cooked by criminals who are not chemists, who aren't exactly known for ethical behaviour, who are not subject to regulation or controls, etc. Oh, and just to be EXTRA EXTRA stupid...we'll make the ingredients all but impossible to procure. Cause um, it's not like the criminals struggling to produce supply to match the huge demand won't - you know - find potentially dangerous substitutes to cook up and pass off as the real thing."

No Callie. There is a metaphoric HELL in which the people responsible for this criminal legislation will burn, but it will not hold those addicts who would seek to mask their unseen pain by 'abusing' a safer substance than the street poisons they're currently buying off criminals [addicts who are as much a victim of a medical condition than you or I - in more ways than most would ever like to believe / accept].

The roller-coaster ride begins with a tremendous rush accompanied by feelings of elation and confidence. Unlimited power seems to be at the speeder's fingertips. The pupils dilate; the heart pumps frantically, breathing is rapid, and the mucous membranes get dry. Speech becomes rata-tat-tat gibberish. The user may focus in on one thing to the exclusion of everything else. But the speeder doesn't care because he feels he is at the height of his intellectual powers. This initial flash of brilliance is succeeded by a euphoria, an elevated mood; as the body continues to release stored energy from its reserves; Physically as well as mentally charged up, he feels capable of superman feats. Life is a cartoon and the speeder is the Roadrunner.
[...poorly written hyperbole redacted...]

Amphetamine psychosis is considered by some to be a manifestation of pre-existing paranoid tendencies, a latent amphetamine personality which blossoms with the taking of the drug. Emotionally troubled before he enters the speed scene, dependent on other drugs or alcohol, the user's sense of insecurity and ineffectiveness vanishes with the euphoria of speed. Others feel that anyone givers a large enough amount of-amphetamines will eventually become psychotic.

I read that years ago on Erowid - maybe a decade ago even. It's far more stupid now than it was then. Provably so....

I'd be lying if I didn't admit to being slightly annoyed to see it re-quoted in 2010. On an ADHD-support forum, of all places....

derpderp
05-04-10, 03:50 PM
noone has suggested making your own....its fairly easy. there is a book by one "dr. buzz" that will help. this is not a decision to be made lightly.

Where is the no-thanks button?

ADHDTigger
05-05-10, 03:01 PM
MODERATOR NOTE:

I am gratified to see that you are all aware of the rules regarding idiocy like "making" your own Desoxyn.

And to the poster who brought us "Facepalm", my undying thanks!

Thanks for sticking to the guidelines, guys!

toogled
08-15-11, 07:58 PM
I have tried desoxyn and its not that much different, alot of people prefer traditional stimulants in particular adderall/dexamphetamine because some people report less side effects with that. I wouldnt make a big fuss about desoxyn unless you are that severely disabled and have involuntary movements like catatonia or something. You just want a drug that works and theres not much difference.

The biggest obvious difference is that you have to take less mg to reach same effect of other stimulants, but you get less mg anyway. You dont get same or large amounts.