I am told by other ADDers I am not alone in this, but documentation is hard to come by. Even my doc seems to think it is more due to depression than nuerological in nature. Basically, I will either not sleep at all, wake up hourly, or be near impossible to wake up regardless of the amount of sleep I have gotten... My hours are all screwed up now anyway so it is hard to convince people other than my immediate family (who does not believe in my diagnosis although they were the first to get the news when I was a child. I had to wait until adulthood to be re-evaluated and have it "re-discovered" to get treatment because my parents didn't really believe the results of the long drawn out and detailed screening I got at age nine. Results? Brief treatment and then removed from same and told to straighten up and fly right, or else....) who having lived with me my first 19 years are aware of my "unique" sleeping patterns and the fact that none of the "common sense" solutions ever attempted worked at all.

This is the one symptom that causes me the most grief in recent history... At least on the professional front. At home emotional intensity, defensiveness, anger, and forgetfulness are the biggies all of the above aggravated by a briefly antogonistic med mix and my normal impulsiveness and inability to edit my speech worth a crap.

I have aquired a new confidence in myself recently. Especially with successes in the past where I thought I would find only failure. Why? Meds, a coach, information, and a willingness to listen even when I doubt the advice offered. Desperation is a great motivator. The sleep thing while not the biggest issue I have is among the most frustrating because I don't even know where to beging working on it. Doc thinks it is stress. Stress certainly makes it worse, but it will happen in cycles with or without stress. I have tried all the common sense easy solutions. Even the more difficult lifestyle change solutions. I need real insight here from some one who has licked this problem.

E-boy, does your brain ramble when you can't sleep?
Not being able to wake up is a new one for me, I wake at the slightest shadow movement.
I wish I had the sleep thing licked and could pass on great advice. Maybe it's a hormonal thing? I say this because (I know your not a woman duhh) but I can hardly sleep at all right before and during the onset of menstruation. I finally made the correlation after decades of this problem. Have you ever been checked for thyroid problems? I think I sleep better when I take extra iodine in one form or another. L-tryptophan helped me a bit to. It isn't on the market anymore in that form yet it is found in milk and turkey and other foods. Wouldn't it make sense that our insufficencies in our bodies would cause some insufficiencies in our brain. Just rambling, againnnnn...
Janine

My sleeping can get really out of wack. It's been a lot better since I started taking Celexa (and recently switched to Lexapro). After years of trying to understand and manage my AD/HD I learned I also suffer from anxiety.

You really touched on a lot there.

Sleep patterns follow interest or concern.

My sleep patterns also follow stress.

And temperature... if it gets warmer or colder, like a season change, i end up needing to sleep for three days. Some times this can happen several weeks in a row in the spring or fall.

In ability to edit speech happens to me, because when i am saying something i haven't said before, I don't "hear" it first... i get a "flag" that says "answer ready" and i hear it the first time like everyone else,,, when it comes out... very tourettes like.

I am forced to operate without "private internal speech."

LivingwithADD,

Anxiety was my first diagnosis. OCD, GAD, Panic attacks to be specific. Add depression as well. After a couple years and lots of different, but ineffective, or nasty side effective meds, they re-discovered my ADHD and when they started taking it into account and started me on a new med (Lexapro) for the anxiety and depression my anxiety, which was extremely severe at this point went into complete remission (lucky me). I also slept, I mean really slept, for the first time in my life on SSRI's. Unfortunately, I still have the sleep pattern issues and I still have "episodes" when people try to wake me that involve saying all sorts of nasty things that I have no memory of. I guess the extra rest with the meds is nice, but I would rather my wife was not afraid to wake me. Hell, I would rather no one had to wake me ever! I go for months on end waking up instantaneously totally alert on time before the alarm clock on nearly any amount of sleep. Then Blammo! No matter how well rested, or how well I take care of myself, I can't wake up for an earthquake (slept through several biggies growing up in bay area california before moving to Idaho) let alone an alarm clock. One time I nearly squished my poor wife. She is a little bitty italian lady. All of five foot three she is. I, on the other hand weigh as much as 250 (much lighter now thank you) and am a full foot taller. I rolled over on her one night and she couldn't get me off or wake me up. Finally she wedged her legs under me, and kicked (she used to be competetive in both skating and judo, so she is pretty strong for a bitty thing). Anyway she kicked me clean off the bed and I had a two foot drop to a hard wood floor and still didn't wake up! The next morning I was bruised, sore, and cold and couldn't figure out how I had gotten on the floor or why my wife was ****ed at me... :-(

HELP!!!!!!!!!!! God I am a mess! I need a new brain. Big dumb swedes were all well and good when there was a market for vikings, but these days there aren't many job niches for big dopey barbarian types. I make a good speed bump, but that seems about it these days... SIGH!

my e-mail is Email address removed by admin for those who wish to correspond with information. Anyone who wishes can write.

I forgot to thank you all for the quick and thoughtful responses. This place is a wonderful resource and source of support and I wish I could have made more use of it on the underway time. It might have prevented being placed on limited duty and I could still be out there helping smite bad guys and stuff... :-(

Just you wait, I'll be a productive member of society yet! Maybe... ;-)

E-Boy

I suggest you research Sleep Apnea. They symptoms you mention are right in line with Sleep Apnea. In my case, I had sleep apnea, undiagnosed, from childhood to age 37. I had a tough time being woken in the morning, I did poorly in school, and I was considered lazy I guess. As an adult, I could not concentrate well, I had bursts of anger, could not wake to an alarm clock, etc. The symptoms are many and vary somewhat between people. Sleep Apnea has many side effects, including changes in neurological function. I use to always hunt for words I was trying to say, and my memory - lets just say FORGET IT! This can cause many problems, some serious physical effects if not treated, later in life leads to a serious heart-lung condition, but even at this early age can cause problems. First of all, it prevents one from getting REM sleep. Without REM sleep, a person never regenerates neurologically at night, and every day has to function without a necessary rest that most people do get. Without REM sleep my life became very depressing and a series of failures that otherwise should not have occurred. I did not know this until they did a sleep study on me at age 37, and found I had ZERO REM SLEEP pattern in my EKG. As sson as they added a treatment, my EKG showed large and long doses of REM Sleep. When I awoke, clueless to what went on the nigh before, I stepped out of bed and felt 100 lbs lighter, and the room and everything looked 3 times brighter. I felt happy, and asked what drug they gave me. I said it was the best drug I had ever had in my life, and they said REM SLEEP! Wow - my depression was lifted - thanks to REM. And my memory improved and I went back to college!

So...I would seriously suggest that you check this. MArk my words, doctors generally overlook this diagnosis; I had seen some of the best doctors in a tri-city area with misdiagnosis upon misdiagnosis, and then a medical friend stepped in and sent me to a neurologist.

If it is sleep apnea you will be glad to get it diagnosed and treated.

Sleep better! And yes, now people can wake me up.

Jon

You are the second person to mention this to me... I suppose it is not outsider the realm of possibility. Being in the Navy, it is not as if it costs me anything to get this checked except my time, and in any case a sleep lab monitoring my brain function while unconscious sounds like a good way to figure out what is happening even if it is not sleep apnea. A win/win situation if ever I heard one. I shall ask my doctor for a neurology consult for a sleep lab immediately!. Thank you for another lead to follow. I would still appreciate any other inputs from people though. Sometimes the simplest suggestions have given me the best results.

Thanks healthwiz. If this pans out the beer's on me! You'll be drinking most of it too as my limit's two on my meds. ;-)

:)

I'm a light drinker and a cheap date!

Jon

Janine,

As a matter of fact my brain does ramble. In fact, it does all manner of odd stuff. I couldn't always even tell you what was cooking in there at any given time. I just know when it is done. *Ding!* Half baked idea coming up! Actually some of them are damn good but that's besides the point. My brain just kind of humms along and I get lost in there. The wife gets mad because she thinks I do this intentionally. I just get lost in there. It's a big place! Even in my head! So much to think about and it's all interconnected even if other people don't see it, or I can't always remember quite how I got where I ended up.

Seems like my most entertaining conversations are with other ADDers. We seem to follow each other.

In fact, as a tech me and another ADDer (I didn't know I was ADD at the time, but this should have been a clue) set a school record on a lab problem. It was rated for four hours and he and I knocked it out in five minutes. If there had not been two lab proctors present we would have been accused of cheating. It was weird. We finished each others questions. We handed each other tools before we had actually asked for them. We were just on the same page thinking in parallel... Very weird and strangely powerful. I remember it was a friday and when we walked out after five minutes of trouble shooting and five minutes of formal write up, the rest of the class thought we were getting an easy problem and going to be off for the rest of the day. Goudas (my ADD lab partner), and I went to sleep behind the computer racks, as it is the only warm place in a computer lab. We were woken up six hours later by our very irritated classmates. They insisted we had somehow shortcutted it and tricked them into thinking they had an easy ride... We were the talk among the instructors for some time. That record stood until the school was closed some ten years later. :-) See, ADHD isn't all bad.

I just rambled big time though didn't I? DOH!


"E-boy, does your brain ramble when you can't sleep?
Not being able to wake up is a new one for me, I wake at the slightest shadow movement.
I wish I had the sleep thing licked and could pass on great advice. Maybe it's a hormonal thing? I say this because (I know your not a woman duhh) but I can hardly sleep at all right before and during the onset of menstruation. I finally made the correlation after decades of this problem. Have you ever been checked for thyroid problems? I think I sleep better when I take extra iodine in one form or another. L-tryptophan helped me a bit to. It isn't on the market anymore in that form yet it is found in milk and turkey and other foods. Wouldn't it make sense that our insufficencies in our bodies would cause some insufficiencies in our brain. Just rambling, againnnnn...
Janine"

Damn, but I'm talkative as hell today! Sorry for all the garbage folks...

E-boy

Sounds lik eyou had a perfect match team mate that day! You might look up Goudas and see if you can team up on something together...might perform some miracles. Never know....

J

My brain rambles on and on and on.....
I actually come up with excellent routines for my aerobics classes during the nite whilst trying to drop off, yet when i awake they are gone, just a dim memory lurkin in the back of my head somewhere never to be seen again!!
I also used to talk and sleep walk when i was younger and things like leavin a doll alone in the toy box without another doll to keep her company (???) jwould irritate me for hours and i would not sleep!! yet i could not get out of bed because i was afraid of the dark and what was under my bed!! I used to cover my ears incase a vampire would bite them off(another strange idae of mine)and i also had to have everthing in even numbers ie 4 dolls not 3 or i would be upset!! Jeez beginnin to think i am justa raving looney!!
Michelle

Not a looney michelle. Sounds a bit like OCD actually. No worries, it isn't anything to worry about unless it takes over your life.

I think many children are like that about organization. Rules are very cut and dry in a child's world.

Jon

Ack!
Sleep!

I have the worst sleep history. In high school (five years ago) I was a total insomniac. I couldn't fall asleep to save my life. Same thing with first year of college. Then the next year it was hypersomnia. I would sleep for twelve to fourteen hours a day. That was corrected with SSRIs and a diagnosis of depression. I no longer take SSRIs due to side effects. Now my biggest problem is falling asleep. It takes me between one to four hours to fall asleep. I also have the brain rambling thing going on. Sometimes it is problem solving, often it is just random daydreams that I can't let go of.

I have a shift job, 24 hour on and 48 hours off, which doesn't help me. But since nobody else at work seems to have insomnia problems, I contribute this to my past history.

Mostly I am irritated with not being able to fall asleep. I don't really want to go on sleeping pills.

I also take Ritalin, but this doesn't seem to hinder sleep. I took 10 mg one night and was able to fall asleep two hours later.

How does a sleep study work? I never thought of something like that. Is it expensive?

Oh, I should be in bed right now...

Sleep study is one night in the hospital sleeping in the very comfy sleep lab

It detects a wide range of sleeping disorders.

Insurance often covers it if you have insurance



Jon

There are a plethora of reasons as to why your sleep is disturbed and in random cycles. I'm a firm believer in seeking information, but if you can't find a resolution with your current doctor, then I suggest it's time to find someone new. I agree with Jon, you will more than likely spend time in a sleep lab and it will be the best thing for you.

I've been taking taking Dexedrine and this stops most of my sleep disturbances which I've had most of my life...

I fall asleep very very easily and will sleep soundly untill I will ,almost always, wake at about 2:30am and will not be able to fall back to sleep for an hour or two.....

I have the added problem of PMS that will cause me 2 weeks each month of nightly sleep disturbances with or without meds. ! I'll some times take a pm OTC sleep pain reliever. I've found Melatonin helps some what also....

I get so weird ( weirder than normal, that is...lol..) say things like " I put the cat in freezer" in stead of " I put the ice cream in the freezer" .... lol..... I'll find my kids laughing at me and I have to ask what I said ... lol ....

I wish I had some advice for you, I'm also trying to work it out....

Question??? if your on a trip or just not sleeping in your own home do you have problems sleeping? I don't sleep and this causes me to have an awful time on my trip. The lack of sleep leaves me feeling sick,disconnected, teary and anti social..... I've learned to be sure I take a sleeping aid with me... Just wondering if it was just me.....

Paula