I hope this post belongs in this topic thread, so forgive me if it should be somewhere else, I didn't know where to put it exactly except for here.

My question is, is there an indirect/direct relationship between the neurotransmtitters Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Serotonin?

For instance, if a person's serotonin level is increased, does that mean their Dopamine level will be decreased. And if a person's norepinephrine level is decreased, does that mean their Dopamine levels might increase?

I'm asking this because I'm reading this book about ADHD, and it saids that ADHD is associated with having too much norepinepinephrine. But then it's associated with having too little Dopmaine. So if this is the case, then why do stimulant drugs help ADHD people if one of their mechanisms of action is to increase Norepinephrine levels, it would seem to me acording to the book I read, that ADHD people need a decrease in Norepineprine, I'm confused by this.

I also read having to much Serotonin can decrease the amount of available dopamine a person has, I mean, is that true?

I really need clarificaton on this, because I'm on Effexor as well as Adderall, and if what I said is true, I'm thinking that the Effexor I'm taking might keep my Adderall from being fully effective. Since Effexor increases Norepinephrine and Serotonin, is this going to decrease or cancel out what little dopamine I have available even with taking Adderall?

Some good stuff {here (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35288)}
... a recent thread on n/transmitters.

Any use?

We can move the ideas of that thread ... ahead ...
... and if I can take the liberty of referencing the following picture.
http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/graphic0/rockmin/thinsect/olivine.gif... and mentioning the word 'N*ucleus'

eg
SCN*
PVN*
VMN*

It's a picture of olivine.

Imagine each colour represents a different 'colony' of neurones.
A colony has its own very specific profile of neurotransmitters associated with it.

Depending on how far you choose to pursue this question - we'll probably end up with the image of the metaphor unravelled of
- all of the colours above as neuronal colonies
-'N*ucle...'i
- fighting for supremacy within context of {brain, mind}.

Question
What does the fight represent?

Question
Have I answered your question?
clue:
A solidier may have 4 weapons.
Another may have only 3 of those 4 weapons.

mano a mano
- who wins?

The guy weighed down with an extra weapon - who cannot move quickly or that same guy whose 4th weapon is better than the other three ... ... ...
~ps~
->- trick question

:-)

http://serc.carleton.edu/images/NAGTWorkshops/petrology/olivine_250.jpg

It's a picture of olivine.

to much/little of one or more of these neurotransmitters could be the cause. With medication it is trial and error. Sometimes an ssri added to a stimulant can help, other times not. I can't comment on whether effexor cancels out adderall. It's about functioning, if the effexor helps with your functioning then I would say no. I think the idea is to find a balance in neurotransmitters allowing you to function in a productive manner.

I'm not sure about ADHD... but I think the general consensus is that the inattentive type involves less norepinephrine...

I would think that too much norepinephrine could make some ADHD symptoms worse, like distractability from environment (sensory input is heightened), but it would improve others (long-term memory function increase (learns quicker), lessens the impact of poor short term memory when learning). Norepinephrine is the neurotransmitter involved in the fight-or-flight response, and the retention of traumatic experiences (PTSD).

I also read having to much Serotonin can decrease the amount of available dopamine a person has, I mean, is that true?

I really need clarificaton on this, because I'm on Effexor as well as Adderall, and if what I said is true, I'm thinking that the Effexor I'm taking might keep my Adderall from being fully effective. Since Effexor increases Norepinephrine and Serotonin, is this going to decrease or cancel out what little dopamine I have available even with taking Adderall?

I believe others on the forum have stated that medications that have an effect on serotonin (SSRIs, SNRIs, multiple reuptake inhibitors, etc.) can have an impact of dopamine transmission in the frontal area... so it will probably decrease the effectiveness of the Adderall (or any other stimulant), yes.

That would be me.

Theres even a whole class of anti-psychotics based around tweaking certain 5HT (serotonin) receptors to cause a drop in dopamine. Buspar also does this because in reality its a failed anti-psychotic that they tried to remarket as an anxiety med.

Funny you should ask:

Drugs that affect more than one chemistry in the body/brain are called "dirty drugs", in fact.
For example, the old tricyclic antidepressants really affect acetylcholine, in addition to norepinephrine, etc. (Acetylcholine effects cause the anti-cholinergic effect in that drug's "family", such as dry mouth, constipation, sedation, lethargy, etc.)


So, in short, yes. Chemicals working along brain's tracts (pathways) often affect and influence other NT's tracts, chemically. (Serotonin <--> Dopamine, etc.)

This action is indirect, though. The main drug action is the one mentioned in the literature we read (e.g. SSRI works on X), while the weaker agonist/antagonist's action is just seen as being incidental and part of the package. (This was from a lecture by a Psychopharm prof when i was in school.)


You may want to read up on the topic by researching "Psychopharmacology".

N.B. The brain is the least understood bodily organ... ;)

Serotonin is generally inhibitory and dopamine excitatory. Ying-yang. That being said, I think both neurotransmitters can do both depending on where they act. Brain is complex(three pound universe), changes in one system/neurotransmitter can cause changes down stream in others.

Medication is very much trial and error.

Sorry, i'm turning this into a science discussion.

...inhibitory,excitatory... ...Ying-yang...aspartic acid {yin}
glutamic acid {yang}
->-
(http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=389432&postcount=2)p=389432 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=389432&postcount=2)

~1~
...excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate...
~2~
... blocking a glutamate receptor called the NMDA receptor,
NMDA == N-methyl D-aspartic acid
preventing glutamate from transmitting its message across the synapse.