View Full Version : Puzzled about creatine...


Miriam
02-16-07, 05:23 AM
I've been kicking this issue around in my mind a while, but I'm going to need the help of a few brains heftier than mine: Is supplemental creatine good (or even just harmless) for the ADD brain?

Before I was diagnosed with ADD I used creatine monohydrate when I worked out. I am a strong responder to creatine. That is to say, it helped me develop nice muscle tone and work out daily without getting fatigued or sore (I didn't get bulky or puffy either-- a good thing for a female). Without creatine I'd get nasty lactic acid buildup after every workout almost no matter how long I keep at it. Now I've talked to a lot of people who said creatine did nothing for them, but I am proof response varies. My dad is the same way-- I wonder if we have a deficiency of creatine?

Sorry to digress... I took a break from creatine around the time that I was diagnosed. I started Strattera then and didn't want to be taking too many things that dehydrate me. Once I got used to the Strattera, I tried loading the creatine again and I can't be sure, but I thought it was somehow cancelling out the Strattera. Suddenly I turned into a stressed out scatterbrain again, and the creatine was the only thing different. I got scared and stopped taking creatine. I've researched the crap out of this and I can only find creatine in ADD studies used as measurement of brain activity. No mention of what supplements could do to someone with ADD.

There are a lot of articles about brain benefits from creatine. Here's one about strokes and Huntington's:
http://www.hdlighthouse.org/TreatmentNow/updates/0086Creatine.php

It's also supposed to help memory and intelligence:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3145223.stm

Here's one that's tough to understand but centers on creatine levels in ADD brains:
http://www.neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/16/1/63

Maybe my creatine/strattera thing was just a fluke. I'm training for a race and would like to go back to creatine, but I'm a little nervous. Anyone got a theory about whether ADDers should take or stay away from creatine?

SB_UK
02-18-07, 03:50 AM
hiya -
- so what follows is an ad hoc theory - just plain plucked outta' the air - please feel free to tell me it's dumb :-)
... haven't looked into any of those links yet - nor read your message in any depth in order to avoid biasing my opinion.
So - I had no opinion before reading your thread title - and am still not sure whether I do - but if placed on the spot - I'd be of the opinion that creatine might make ADD worse.
I'd need to know oral ->- bioavailability and also elevations in central (brain) CrP (creatine phosphate) levels on account of oral dosage.
This info should be out there in 'white paper' land ... (just haven't looked)
... OK so - the idea would be ...

-1- orally absorbed creatine might lead to higher central (brain) levels of creatine, and with concomittant creatine kinase expression increases - also an increase in CrP levels.

-2- if CrP elevates - then energy in the brain can be obtained via the trans-phosphorylation of AMP/ADP ->- ATP.
note:this is a very fast process.

-3- energy is obtained (FAST->-order of speed->-SLOW) via
-a>- bioavailable ATP,
-b>- ->- then via ATP generated from CrP,
-c>- ->- ->- by glycolysis (energy obtained from simple sugars (carbohydrates)) generating
-c{i}>- ->- ->- >acetyl CoA (low efficiency aerobic respiration) which feeds into the citric acid cycle and then potentially into the electron transport chain (high efficiency aerobic respiration)
-c{ii}>- ->- ->- >by glycolysis (energy obtained from simple sugars (carbohydrates)) generating lactic acid (low efficiency aerobic respiration)
- really not so great a mechanism for generating energy (in man)
- sure no oxygen required
- but the cramp (in skeletal muscle)

CrP would hold off -c{ii}- (cramp) by generating additional energy offa' the -2- ->- -1- process

oi vey!!!
:-)
-d>- ->- ->- ->- by glycogenolysis (energy obtained from complex sugars (carbohydrates)) ->- these are broken down into simple sugars and follow the pattern described in
-c-
-c{i}-
-c{ii}-
-e>- ->- ->- ->- ->- by beta oxidation (energy obtained from fat) (high efficiency mitochondrial aerobic respiration)

So ->- the rationale is that elsewhere on the forum we've been describing a shift in the metabolic pattern of the brain (due to the energy requirements of a rapidly developing mind) away from energy generation by the 'faster' methods (-a-,-b-,-c- above) and ->-towards->- more sustainable aerobic methods (-e- above) - which stands some chance of powering our thunkin' organ.

The corollary would be that pushing the brain back into -a- to -c- inclusive would be reacted against - the experiential perspective you describe of confusion + CrP would fit.

Please take all of the above with a grain of salt - there're a few holes - for instance - the ADD daydream or pattern of non-linear thought which we experience - requires energy - the confusion + CrP might be due to a massive energy infusion which launches the individual into full on non-linearity ... rather amusingly this'd cross over with the 'don't feed your kids too much sugar - it causes hyperactivity, ADD and an inability to concentrate' ...
... maybe there's a grain of truth in that idea - which crosses over into your CrP observation.

By the way - I lift too --- and find that the major impediment I have these days - is 'cramp' ... probably my single greatest problem - I'm trying stretching and shifting to more aerobic/anaerobic weights-work [weighted resistance bar dips, pull ups] away from anaerobic/anaerobic stuff.