View Full Version : Kratom for ADD


prurigro
02-20-07, 08:06 PM
kratom is an unscheduled plant whose leaves are available in many health food stores and on the internet-- I'd heard it had enjoyable relaxing effects similar to opiates and small stimulating effects at the same time (a lot of people take it for opiate and stimulant withdrawal), I wanted to try some on my dexadrine holiday over spring break just to see how it might help add

The results are fantastic, its not powerful at all like stimulants and it doesn't make you sleepy like opiates-- I found myself calmly enjoying house work and being able to focus almost as well as stimulant medication, usually my state of mind is racing but on this I feel very calm and relaxed. I've been reading school work and I haven't been frusterated or found myself thinking of something else (not reading the words as I "read") yet-- basically what dexadrine does for me

anyway, I I'm not exactly sure its method of action, but people might want to consider trying it on holidays for their actual meds or possibly as a short term replacement when you dont have any. I know its addictive like stimulants if taken too often, but if taken here and there it seems quite beneficial -- any thoughts comments or similar experiences ?

netsavy006
02-20-07, 08:33 PM
honestly, I never heard of it. Thanks for mentioning it...

RMHGordon
05-28-09, 09:53 AM
I've been using Kratom for about 2 years now and can share my experiences:

Kratom leaves contain mitragynine:

In small doses its activity is reported to be stimulant like, while in higher doses more opiate like. These effects agree with the profile of mitragynine's actions developed by study of its action on the brain. It has been shown to be adrenergic (like some related alkaloids from yohimbe (http://www.addforums.com/wiki/Yohimbe)) at lower doses while at higher doses mitragynine acts on the mu and delta opiate receptors. The mu opiate receptors are responsible for the enjoyable effects of the opiates, analgesia, and physical dependence. Its potential for treating drug addiction, perhaps in combination with ibogaine (http://www.addforums.com/wiki/Ibogaine), is being investigated. It is orally active.

Mitragynine itself acts primarily via μ-opioid receptors, although its oxidation product mitragynine-pseudoindoxyl, which is likely to be a major component of kratom that has been aged or stored for extended periods, acts as a fairly selective δ-opioid (http://www.addforums.com/wiki/Delta_opioid_receptor) agonist (http://www.addforums.com/wiki/Agonist) with little affinity for μ or κ receptors.<SUP id=cite_ref-pmid11960505_1-0 class=reference>[2] (http://www.addforums.com/forums/#cite_note-pmid11960505-1)</SUP> Another alkaloid with a major contribution to the μ-opioid activity of the kratom plant is the related compound 7-hydroxymitragynine (http://www.addforums.com/wiki/7-hydroxymitragynine), which while present in the plant in much smaller quantities than mitragynine, is a much more potent μ-opioid agonist

It is legal in every country except its country of origin and Austrailla. I'm the inattentive type, so for me it really only helps me "feel" better like an opiate would, but I do get spurts of happy/productive energy with very high doses. Now that I think about it, hyperactive types might find it beneficial.

I'm reading now that its being used in Russia for treatment of opiate withdrawl, which I can totally understand. You may read that Kratom can become addictive, but I've not encountered that aspect of it in the last couple of years. I'll order 4 oz. of 10x at a time, and it will only last me 4 days, so it becomes an expensive alternative. The effects last for up to 4 hours or so, and I've never slept better after consuming an ounce throughout the day.

There are many different varieties, some are just junk, while others are really potent. Stay away from the resins, capsules, and leaf, and seek out the powedered, standardized (5x, 10x, 15x, 20x) versions. The worst side effect is its taste! Like dirty sagebrush!

Oh, by the way, the naitives to Thailand have been chewing kratom leaves for about the last 1,000 years, there have been no reported OD's in the US from the use of this product, and its not Salvia! (There's an effort now for the ban of Salvia in the US, and they want to throw Kratom in as well)

FinallyAnswered
05-28-09, 10:08 AM
I'll add that nausea is a frequent side effect, which usually goes away when laying down. It is expensive though and it does taste horrible. The best method is to make a concentrated tea so you don't have to drink a big glass of the nasty stuff.

Physical dependence comes on quickly.....after a week or two of continuous usage, you will suffer withdrawal when you stop.....so be very careful.

ADHD Nurse
07-27-10, 10:24 AM
Hi. I'm taking Adderall with good success, but am interested in taking Kratom as a healthier alternative. However I can't find any stores that sell it. How do you buy it and why is it so hard if it is legal? How do I know a reputable website? Thanks ADD NURSE

ADHD Nurse
07-27-10, 10:48 AM
Hi, I'm on Adderall 10mg tid with pretty good success, but would like to try a healthier alternative for "holidays". Do you know a good way to purchase Kratom? Only can find in on-line and that way can be sketchy...don't want to throw away my money...I live in MA. Thanks anyone who can hellp! ADD Nurse

super1
08-22-10, 01:58 AM
Hi, I'm on Adderall 10mg tid with pretty good success, but would like to try a healthier alternative for "holidays". Do you know a good way to purchase Kratom? Only can find in on-line and that way can be sketchy...don't want to throw away my money...I live in MA. Thanks anyone who can hellp! ADD Nurse

Hi... there are many online vendors for kratom, and I agree that some can be sketchy. Avoid any that use bad marketing techniques like claiming kratom to be some type of legal high. If anyone purchases it for that reason, they'll be very disappointed. Also, I'd avoid any headshops that sale it, as in my experience, its of lower quality and ridiculously expensive when compared to the more reputable online shops.

I am part of an online store that sales kratom, and we offer samples for those that are curious and don't want to spend much. My store is http://www.entheofarm.com (http://www.entheofarm.com/)

(Please remove my website if its against forum rules. We do have a very reputable shop, and I thought it would be helpful to post here.)

mindfulness
03-22-11, 09:44 AM
I started taking Kratom to help ease the transition of coming down from my Adderall at night. For me (and apparently others), Kratom works amazingly well for this.

After a few months, I found myself taking Kratom and Adderall together. This had a positive effect and seemed to make the Adderall more effective.

As I soon learned, Kratom can be very addictive, especially if taken over a lengthy period of time. I've been using Kratom now for over two years and am having extreme difficulty abstaining from it. Although I don't take large amounts of the stuff, I must have it every day, sometimes twice a day. I've spent thousands of dollars purchasing it and rarely have any money.

If you feel you are prone to addiction, as can be the case with ADD people, please do some research before going the Kratom route. As they say, "all in moderation," - but somewhere along the line I slipped up an am dearly paying for it. Not only is my pocket hurting, but my memory, motivation and physique have declined as a result of prolonged usage.

Just wanted to share that bit of wisdom for what it's worth. I'm going to eventually get off this plant - It won't be easy, but I really look forward to getting my life back together like it was before I got involved with it. Please be careful!

GreenThumb
06-22-11, 02:57 PM
I use Kratom as an alternative to opiates for pain and found its added side effect was controlling adhd symptoms when i was trying to lower my cannabis tolerance (in CA, have doctors rec, its legal and it works). Problem is that CB1 receptors turn off selectively as to not overwhelm the brain with thc, which becomes an issue after years of use regularly. The only way to combat this is less use to get stronger effects... hence the kratom. I will post more about other topics, but this was one close to my heart

ericl123
08-06-11, 07:13 PM
Kratom probably helps with ADD and focus mainly because of the increase in dopamine levels. I believe I read that dopamine turns into norepinephrine. Kratom is actually a sedative by nature. Once you become accustomed to regular use you will no longer get the feeling of determination. Your dosage will go up and you will become just sedated and euphoric. It's not FDA approved so I don't recommend it, but even if it was FDA approved I would still not recommend it. It's addictive and expensive. I know a lot about this topic so take my advice. Using incense more than twice a week is bad.

samson smith
09-12-11, 12:41 AM
Hi. I'm taking Adderall with good success, but am interested in taking Kratom as a healthier alternative. However I can't find any stores that sell it. How do you buy it and why is it so hard if it is legal? How do I know a reputable website? Thanks ADD NURSE

Kratom is known as Mitragyna speciosa. kratom are very glossy, dark green color, and which can be distilled into a thick extract for medical treatments. There are many places available online in these days where you can find herbal and nutritional remedies. kratom is also available in medical stores. You can take help of Google search engine that gives information of the best place where you buy kratom.

mortalzilla
09-29-11, 03:10 PM
I joined this forum specifically to comment on Kratom use. I would strongly advise against it. I have used Kratom for roughly 4 years now and I can tell you from firsthand experience (and the observation of others) that the plant is very addictive. Incidentally, I also have ADD - but can't say that I've ever used Kratom (or anything else) to treat it. Kratom MIGHT help for 2-3 hours, but (with regular use) the tremendous cost you will pay in terms of health, money, time and depression FAR outweigh any positive effects you will see. If you are considering trying Kratom, do yourself a favor first and google "kratom withdrawal", "kratom addiction", "kratom hell" or any variation thereof.

I have been trying to stop using this plant for almost 4 years now - the longest "dry" stretch I have had was maybe 3.5 months. The withdrawals are awful, as in 5 straight days of SEVERE depression and restless legs horrible enough to prevent sleep completely for the first 4 or 5 nights. I have heard it said that they are worse than opiate withdrawals, and while I haven't experienced full blown opiate withdrawal, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this is true.

Don't be fooled by the fact that this plant is currently legal, it is very dangerous. I brought my predicament on myself (I take Kratom because I like the sensation, not out of any perceived need), I would hate to think that one would unwittingly put themselves into my shoes while simply trying to deal with their ADD.

Just read the thread and wanted to offer my .02

SweetCode
09-29-11, 04:06 PM
Tried kratom recently and honestly I really didn't like the effects, I felt hyper and uncomfortable the whole time , one thing I really notice was that I had some pain in my leg and that disappeared during kratom effect.

On my body it fells much more like a recreative drug than a medication, of course the experience vary a lot for each person and strain, maybe I am hyper sensitive.

And as mortalzilla said don't be tricked by the "legal plant" status , it's a really strong medication.

mortalzilla
09-29-11, 10:28 PM
Tried kratom recently and honestly I really didn't like the effects, I felt hyper and uncomfortable the whole time , one thing I really notice was that I had some pain in my leg and that disappeared during kratom effect.

On my body it fells much more like a recreative drug than a medication, of course the experience vary a lot for each person and strain, maybe I am hyper sensitive.

And as mortalzilla said don't be tricked by the "legal plant" status , it's a really strong medication.

I agree that it is more of a recreational thing. It's almost indistinguishable from taking a few vicoden, though I have heard others say that it does have some pain relieving qualities.

The one exception to my "recreational" comment is kratom's use in weaning off harder drugs. I know that it has been used successfully for coming of opiates as strong as heroin due to its ability to mitigate opiate withdrawals (which is neither here nor there in the context of this discussion, but figured I'd mention it).

Anyhow, just wanted to warn others to be sure to do their research before trying it out, it's an exceptionally sneaky drug that bears serious consideration before use. I'd prefer to have never heard about it myself.

johnsanders11
09-30-11, 06:05 PM
I'd have to disagree. I've used it for several years w/ great results. I know some others who bought what they thought was kratom but was in fact other things. If you do want to take it make sure to use a reputable vendor and not one of the fly by night sites that are popping up left and right.

I guess like anything else, each person reacts differently too it.

mortalzilla
10-06-11, 12:32 PM
I'd have to disagree. I've used it for several years w/ great results. I know some others who bought what they thought was kratom but was in fact other things. If you do want to take it make sure to use a reputable vendor and not one of the fly by night sites that are popping up left and right.

I guess like anything else, each person reacts differently too it.

Yeah, my brother and his wife, who have been doing kratom daily for 3 years straight, both disagree that it's addictive too.

I can say without a doubt that it's kratom I've been using for the last 4 years - 15x, full spectrum, resin, liquid extract, and my favorite - Bali PC. I've ordered from multiple sources and bought locally at times and haven't ever had a bad experience (ie: I've always received what I paid for, and yet I've never felt compelled to post a link to their site in a public forum - I wonder why?).

I had meant to ad to my original post that I have read about others who have not had problems after using kratom regularly over extended periods, but this runs contrary to my personal experience (as much as I wish it didn't, I really like the stuff when I am not busy hating it).

Anyhow, my point here wasn't to vilify kratom but rather to warn anyone considering using it to be cautious. In the wrong hands and under the wrong circumstances, it can be dangerous. If you're one of those who has had nothing but good experiences, more power to you, I wish I could say the same.

samson smith
10-07-11, 03:51 AM
There are many benefits of extract which includes things like the energy boost that it brings about for chronically lethargic people. It is most effectively treated their depression, pain, and even eliminated their fever. In today more and more people are gaining interest in buying Kratom extract.

aalina
10-27-11, 05:03 AM
Kratom's primary pharmacology is mediated by the alkaloids . While these molecules share structural similarities to the psychedelics, there is no psychedelic activity or similarities in effects to such substances. Instead these alkaloids primarily interact with the opioid receptors. Accordingly, kratom is known to prevent or delay withdrawal symptoms in an opiate dependent individual, and it is often used for this purpose. It can also be used for other medicinal purposes and is sometimes used recreationally.

samson smith
10-31-11, 06:19 AM
I really like the smell of fresh kratom leaves. I love the pain relief and attitude altering effects of kratom. But its bitter alkali taste, makes kratom so special.

saul.a
01-12-12, 05:27 PM
Just to throw in my 2 cents, I will have to agree with both the good and the bad of kratom, but all in all, if you can keep yourself in control of your usage (easier said than done) it can be of much help with ADHD symptoms. If you are someone who can not control usage, if you have abused drugs in the past, etc., stay away. Far away. I say this because I did become a daily kratom user and at that stage, complete cessation of it after extended use results in an awful withdrawal. It took months to taper down to the acceptable levels I am comfortable with using. I will explain some of my own experience, some tricks I've learned and please form your own conclusion.

Before getting into that. I must say this: if you choose to use kratom, there are several rules that must be consistently followed, otherwise you will experience awful side effects. I call them the golden rules of kratom. They are:<O:p></O:p>
<O:p</O:p

1. ALWAYS take some sort of motion sickness medication prior to use. This is not negotiable. Do this and you will probably have about a 85-90% chance of not getting nausea. Do it not and you can guarantee that you will feel sick to your stomach for the rest of the time you are awake that day. (Bonine is usually better as it is non-drowsy, but dramamine can also be used if bonine not available). Just like opiates, kratom causes your body's inner-ear equilibrium to be off, thus causing motion sickness. Not many people know that. I only know it by accident and trial and error.
<O:p<O:p</O:p
2. NEVER consume kratom if you have even the most mild hangover. It will make your life miserable. Even if you only feel the faintest of hangover symptoms, the kratom will multiply those symptoms by a thousand-fold. I believe this to be for the same reason as above; when you are hungover, your body's equilibrium is off, not to mention your stomach is a trainwreck. If you do not follow this rule, you have a good chance of vomiting uncontrollably until your body has rid itself of everything in your stomach. I know this from experience

3. LESS IS MORE. Kratom is both a stimulant and a depressant; How, you ask? Well, in smaller quantities, it has stimulant like effects, similar to yohimbe, but with some euphoric properties similar to opiates and an effect on concentration that could be a close runner up to some of the meds we ADD’ers take. That being said, larger quantities will have depressant effects; another issue with larger quantities is tolerance. You do not want that to rise because kratom is addicting and expensive. If you are in the early stages of use and you aren't getting the same bang for your buck off 2 or 3 grams, do NOT increase; take a few days off. As I said and other posters said, this can be addicting. Just like many of our meds, once you get on the rising dose elevator, it’s difficult to go back down.

<O:p4. DO NOT USE THIS RECREATIONALLY. Would you use your ADHD meds to get high? If the answer is yes, you are not medicating, you are abusing drugs. Kratom, if used properly can give you motivation, courage and focus. You can do the most mundane, boring and repetitive tasks and you will probably have a smile on your face and not a care in the world; this is what the Thai's use this for. They use it in the mornings before a hard day's work. I will explain my own experience with this

5. If you are taking ADHD meds, my best advice would be not to use kratom while your meds are working. If you crash, etc., then you might get some help from kratom to get over the hump. If you use them concurrently, you are wasting your money. Kratom is more expensive than your meds, assuming you have health insurance and there is no co-pay for kratom.

On a side note, I am not encouraging nor am I condoning the use of kratom; however I firmly believe that knowledge is power and knowledge can help save a person from making the mistakes others have made.

<O:p</O:pAll that being said, I will explain why and how I know so much about kratom. I started using kratom a little over 3 years ago. I heard it was an acceptable substitute for opiates. I had taken my share of opiates in my life and I'd be a liar if I didn't say I enjoyed their properties of decreased social anxiety, etc. One thing that has always been said about undiagnosed ADHD- it can often cause the undiagnosed to self-medicate. One thing I noticed about kratom that was different was that it gave me motivation; something my ADHD has waged a constant battle against. At first, I used it every once in a while. It actually took me several purchases to actually find something that was not fake or inferior; I had given up, but the last try and a little research sealed the deal.

At the time I was gearing up to deploy to Afghanistan. </ST1:pPre-deployment phase consisted of grueling hours, sleep deprivation and much to accomplish in little time. I began to notice the kratom would help this. My job was in the Communications field (radios, GPS, etc.); if you are not actually doing hands on, and are stuck reading or studying to get your knowledge up, the stuff is very dry. The kratom made it interesting. I could have been reading about the sleeping patterns of juniper beetles and I would have found it intriguing. My use of kratom went from occasional to somewhat regular.

Toward the end of pre-deployment, I was using kratom almost daily. I was working circles around people. I was a junior guy with no prior deployments and little real experience in my field yet I was putting in 18 hour days to learn, train and catch up to the guys who made it look easy. The kratom helped this extremely. By the time we were getting on the big bird to take us to the unknown, in a little over 14 weeks I gained the knowledge that took many others months if not years.

When we got to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.addforums.com/forums/ /><st1:country-region w:st=<ST1:pAfghanistan</ST1:p</st1:country-region>, it only increased. We hit the ground running. After a couple days of “assimilation” or RSO&I as they called it, we were doing what we trained for. I still had not become a daily user, but I was close. When the mission tempo increased, my kratom use increased as did my productivity. I began to accelerate far beyond many of the people who trained me and after a few months, I was the expert. I was the go-to-guy. At that point a certain chain of events caused our missions to become much more dangerous with much more at stake. My kratom use had become daily, with me taking 2 or 3 grams about every 4 or 5 hours or so. I would often work 20-30 hours straight, with an hour or two nap mixed in when possible. I did it all with a smile and I did it better than most. I was focused, clear and ready to take on anything.

About 6 months into the deployment, while I was using kratom multiple times daily, I had gotten near the point in my supply where it was time to order more. This was quite regular, I had it timed to the day, as the orders would always take 7 or 8 days max to arrive. After 9 days and no package, my current supply ran dry. I have said many great things about kratom but I will say this: for 4 days I was miserable. The euphoria died, the motivation along with it and I crashed and burned. This was withdrawal. This was misery. Through this misery, I still had to provide the same level of productivity and put in the grueling hours as there was not an option for a sick day or a vacation. I still did my job, but I did it with aches, pains and anxiety. I had contacted the seller numerous times and he couldn’t figure out what happened. In the end, it was held for several days extra as it was in the same a shipment with another Soldier’s package containing a large bottle of vodka (which is illegal for US Military in Combat Zones) that broke. Despite the misery, two good things came from this: I reset the tolerance that had grown exponentially and I realized the power behind this substance. I had abused it and I had payed.

I pushed through the rest of the tour still taking kratom as it gave me that edge; it gave me that motivation that had long since run out from many of my comrades. We had been gone nearly a year and the stress, the tension, the long hours, the constant danger and the fatigue had long since set in for everyone; however I was still going strong. The kratom for lack of a better phrase had made me numb; I had grown to love all its magical properties and I had become numb to the fact that I had been away from my family for a year. When I look back on all of this, I both love and hate kratom at the same time; I love it for the machine it turned me into, I hated it for the fact that I had become numb to many emotions, as if I were a robot. Perhaps just war in general does that to a person, but I’d have to guess the kratom amplified it.
<O:p
I came home, I got my month off and I then returned to work (I’m a Reservist). Although I had made a deal with myself that once I returned home, the kratom use would be excessively scaled back to the point of almost illimination, I continued to use it at a rate that soon came to exceed my use in Afghanistan. I had some sort of kratom in my system for every second I was awake. The transition coming home from a deployment is hell. It is abrupt, confusing and violent at best. The kratom helped give me that same numbness that I now required. I no longer even “felt” anything from the kratom, but if I didn’t have it, I felt awful.

Long story short, it took a little more than a year and I am now no longer the habitual kratom abuser I used to be. I had never been diagnosed or treated for ADHD and I finally took the step to do that. It took me being able to admit I had PTSD and getting help for that before I even thought of crossing that bridge. I discovered the miracle of medication; for most of my life, the stigma associated with it (based on ignorance) far outweighed any benefits I thought I’d receive. I was finally able to taper down off the kratom. I no longer use it out of necessity, but occasionally I will use it to augment my current medications. As we all know, Vyvanse does not last the 12-14 hours that Shire says it does, so a light dose of kratom provides a heavy duty seatbelt for the inevitable crash.

When all was said and done, at my worst I was probably spending close to $250-$300 a month on kratom. I now pay 12.50 for my Vyvanse and the Wellbutrin is free. I guess you could say I was self medicating when I used the kratom. As I said earlier, I often hear that many people with untreated ADHD often self medicate. I was one of those people.

Please take all I have said and make your own conclusions on kratom. As it is said with medication, it should only be taken if the benefits outweigh the possible side effects. Kratom is a powerful substance; if used correctly, it can be a great tool to give that push to get things done and to even excel. If used incorrectly, it can result in a very dark and lonely place that I never wish to visit again.

unim21
08-02-12, 05:21 PM
Just to throw in my 2 cents, I will have to agree with both the good and the bad of kratom, but all in all, if you can keep yourself in control of your usage (easier said than done) it can be of much help with ADHD symptoms. If you are someone who can not control usage, if you have abused drugs in the past, etc., stay away. Far away. I say this because I did become a daily kratom user and at that stage, complete cessation of it after extended use results in an awful withdrawal. It took months to taper down to the acceptable levels I am comfortable with using. I will explain some of my own experience, some tricks I've learned and please form your own conclusion.

Before getting into that. I must say this: if you choose to use kratom, there are several rules that must be consistently followed, otherwise you will experience awful side effects. I call them the golden rules of kratom. They are:<O:p></O:p>
<O:p</O:p

1. ALWAYS take some sort of motion sickness medication prior to use. This is not negotiable. Do this and you will probably have about a 85-90% chance of not getting nausea. Do it not and you can guarantee that you will feel sick to your stomach for the rest of the time you are awake that day. (Bonine is usually better as it is non-drowsy, but dramamine can also be used if bonine not available). Just like opiates, kratom causes your body's inner-ear equilibrium to be off, thus causing motion sickness. Not many people know that. I only know it by accident and trial and error.
<O:p<O:p</O:p
2. NEVER consume kratom if you have even the most mild hangover. It will make your life miserable. Even if you only feel the faintest of hangover symptoms, the kratom will multiply those symptoms by a thousand-fold. I believe this to be for the same reason as above; when you are hungover, your body's equilibrium is off, not to mention your stomach is a trainwreck. If you do not follow this rule, you have a good chance of vomiting uncontrollably until your body has rid itself of everything in your stomach. I know this from experience

3. LESS IS MORE. Kratom is both a stimulant and a depressant; How, you ask? Well, in smaller quantities, it has stimulant like effects, similar to yohimbe, but with some euphoric properties similar to opiates and an effect on concentration that could be a close runner up to some of the meds we ADD’ers take. That being said, larger quantities will have depressant effects; another issue with larger quantities is tolerance. You do not want that to rise because kratom is addicting and expensive. If you are in the early stages of use and you aren't getting the same bang for your buck off 2 or 3 grams, do NOT increase; take a few days off. As I said and other posters said, this can be addicting. Just like many of our meds, once you get on the rising dose elevator, it’s difficult to go back down.

<O:p4. DO NOT USE THIS RECREATIONALLY. Would you use your ADHD meds to get high? If the answer is yes, you are not medicating, you are abusing drugs. Kratom, if used properly can give you motivation, courage and focus. You can do the most mundane, boring and repetitive tasks and you will probably have a smile on your face and not a care in the world; this is what the Thai's use this for. They use it in the mornings before a hard day's work. I will explain my own experience with this

5. If you are taking ADHD meds, my best advice would be not to use kratom while your meds are working. If you crash, etc., then you might get some help from kratom to get over the hump. If you use them concurrently, you are wasting your money. Kratom is more expensive than your meds, assuming you have health insurance and there is no co-pay for kratom.

On a side note, I am not encouraging nor am I condoning the use of kratom; however I firmly believe that knowledge is power and knowledge can help save a person from making the mistakes others have made.

<O:p</O:pAll that being said, I will explain why and how I know so much about kratom. I started using kratom a little over 3 years ago. I heard it was an acceptable substitute for opiates. I had taken my share of opiates in my life and I'd be a liar if I didn't say I enjoyed their properties of decreased social anxiety, etc. One thing that has always been said about undiagnosed ADHD- it can often cause the undiagnosed to self-medicate. One thing I noticed about kratom that was different was that it gave me motivation; something my ADHD has waged a constant battle against. At first, I used it every once in a while. It actually took me several purchases to actually find something that was not fake or inferior; I had given up, but the last try and a little research sealed the deal.

At the time I was gearing up to deploy to Afghanistan. </ST1:pPre-deployment phase consisted of grueling hours, sleep deprivation and much to accomplish in little time. I began to notice the kratom would help this. My job was in the Communications field (radios, GPS, etc.); if you are not actually doing hands on, and are stuck reading or studying to get your knowledge up, the stuff is very dry. The kratom made it interesting. I could have been reading about the sleeping patterns of juniper beetles and I would have found it intriguing. My use of kratom went from occasional to somewhat regular.

Toward the end of pre-deployment, I was using kratom almost daily. I was working circles around people. I was a junior guy with no prior deployments and little real experience in my field yet I was putting in 18 hour days to learn, train and catch up to the guys who made it look easy. The kratom helped this extremely. By the time we were getting on the big bird to take us to the unknown, in a little over 14 weeks I gained the knowledge that took many others months if not years.

When we got to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.addforums.com/forums/ /><st1:country-region w:st=<ST1:pAfghanistan</ST1:p</st1:country-region>, it only increased. We hit the ground running. After a couple days of “assimilation” or RSO&I as they called it, we were doing what we trained for. I still had not become a daily user, but I was close. When the mission tempo increased, my kratom use increased as did my productivity. I began to accelerate far beyond many of the people who trained me and after a few months, I was the expert. I was the go-to-guy. At that point a certain chain of events caused our missions to become much more dangerous with much more at stake. My kratom use had become daily, with me taking 2 or 3 grams about every 4 or 5 hours or so. I would often work 20-30 hours straight, with an hour or two nap mixed in when possible. I did it all with a smile and I did it better than most. I was focused, clear and ready to take on anything.

About 6 months into the deployment, while I was using kratom multiple times daily, I had gotten near the point in my supply where it was time to order more. This was quite regular, I had it timed to the day, as the orders would always take 7 or 8 days max to arrive. After 9 days and no package, my current supply ran dry. I have said many great things about kratom but I will say this: for 4 days I was miserable. The euphoria died, the motivation along with it and I crashed and burned. This was withdrawal. This was misery. Through this misery, I still had to provide the same level of productivity and put in the grueling hours as there was not an option for a sick day or a vacation. I still did my job, but I did it with aches, pains and anxiety. I had contacted the seller numerous times and he couldn’t figure out what happened. In the end, it was held for several days extra as it was in the same a shipment with another Soldier’s package containing a large bottle of vodka (which is illegal for US Military in Combat Zones) that broke. Despite the misery, two good things came from this: I reset the tolerance that had grown exponentially and I realized the power behind this substance. I had abused it and I had payed.

I pushed through the rest of the tour still taking kratom as it gave me that edge; it gave me that motivation that had long since run out from many of my comrades. We had been gone nearly a year and the stress, the tension, the long hours, the constant danger and the fatigue had long since set in for everyone; however I was still going strong. The kratom for lack of a better phrase had made me numb; I had grown to love all its magical properties and I had become numb to the fact that I had been away from my family for a year. When I look back on all of this, I both love and hate kratom at the same time; I love it for the machine it turned me into, I hated it for the fact that I had become numb to many emotions, as if I were a robot. Perhaps just war in general does that to a person, but I’d have to guess the kratom amplified it.
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I came home, I got my month off and I then returned to work (I’m a Reservist). Although I had made a deal with myself that once I returned home, the kratom use would be excessively scaled back to the point of almost illimination, I continued to use it at a rate that soon came to exceed my use in Afghanistan. I had some sort of kratom in my system for every second I was awake. The transition coming home from a deployment is hell. It is abrupt, confusing and violent at best. The kratom helped give me that same numbness that I now required. I no longer even “felt” anything from the kratom, but if I didn’t have it, I felt awful.

Long story short, it took a little more than a year and I am now no longer the habitual kratom abuser I used to be. I had never been diagnosed or treated for ADHD and I finally took the step to do that. It took me being able to admit I had PTSD and getting help for that before I even thought of crossing that bridge. I discovered the miracle of medication; for most of my life, the stigma associated with it (based on ignorance) far outweighed any benefits I thought I’d receive. I was finally able to taper down off the kratom. I no longer use it out of necessity, but occasionally I will use it to augment my current medications. As we all know, Vyvanse does not last the 12-14 hours that Shire says it does, so a light dose of kratom provides a heavy duty seatbelt for the inevitable crash.

When all was said and done, at my worst I was probably spending close to $250-$300 a month on kratom. I now pay 12.50 for my Vyvanse and the Wellbutrin is free. I guess you could say I was self medicating when I used the kratom. As I said earlier, I often hear that many people with untreated ADHD often self medicate. I was one of those people.

Please take all I have said and make your own conclusions on kratom. As it is said with medication, it should only be taken if the benefits outweigh the possible side effects. Kratom is a powerful substance; if used correctly, it can be a great tool to give that push to get things done and to even excel. If used incorrectly, it can result in a very dark and lonely place that I never wish to visit again.

Excellent post, and eerily similar. Thank you.

425runner
08-03-12, 12:04 AM
Gelatinized Maca root from Peru, 5 grams twice a day works better then Kratom for energy, focus, and staying awake with no addiction potential and actually tastes good.

ampakine
04-14-13, 04:26 PM
Just thought this thread was worth resurrecting. There should be many ways to inhibit kratom dependence. One way I know of is black seed (nigella sativa) oil. Another way is low dose methylene blue (it prevents tolerance to opiates and other drugs by inhibiting nitric oxide synthesis in the brain). NMDA antagonists like acamprosate are another one. Then theres proglumide (that will inhibit tolerance to mitragynine, not sure about non opioid alkaloids though).

And to add saul.as rule 1: Antihistamines aren't the only class of anti nausea drugs available. Domperidone (motilium) is a dopamine antagonist. Then theres hyoscine which is an anticholinergic. I personally just drink ginger tea and peppermint tea (both anti-emetics), and only use antihistamines if the tea isn't enough.