First let me preface this by saying I feel more comfortable seeking guidance from an ADD message board then a law school message board. I just hope there is someone (at least one person!) out there who is in or has been in a similar situation.

Here's the deal. I've had ADHD since 3rd grade and was on Ritalin till high school. I decided to go off medication in high school because I didn't like the effects it had on my personality. Meanwhile, my grades dropped in high school but I think it was more so for lack of caring. I got into a big 10 college and did real well. I have a great GPA due to work ethic more so then problems concentrating. Although I could never really pay attention in class, I would always be able to still take notes and study hard. However, I never had any reading that was difficult or time sensitive.

I recently have concluded that in addition to ADHD, I believe I have RD (Reading Disability). I have always thought something of this but after doing plenty of research, I am convinced. I have consulted with a doctor and am now taking Dextroamphetamine 4 times daily at 15mg. While it seems I am able to concentrate better, this is not helping with the Reading Disability.

I have studied for the LSAT prior to this and even when untimed, I do horriable on the Reading Comprehension section. I cannot grasp the main idea (even w/ strategies from testing companies) and get well over half the questions wrong. I am in the Washington, DC area and have tried to seek out ADHD/RD tutoring companies to no avail. I do very well on the logic games and logical reasoning (short arguments...sometimes have to read numerous times) but I don't want RC to keep me from reaching my goal.

If anyone can give me advice on strategies, methods or individuals who may be able to help me, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

I have never taken the LSAT, but I have found some sites that might help you out :)

Reading Comp tips
http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm
http://www.marin.cc.ca.us/~don/Study/7read.html (http://www.marin.cc.ca.us/%7Edon/Study/7read.html)

LSAT study tips:
http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/acelsat/acelsatfull.html
http://www.prelawadvisor.com/Top15LSATTips.htm


Good luck!!

PS. When I took my certification exam for behavior analysis I was able to request accomodations (had to provide documentation of ADHD), so that is most likely a possibility for you - check into it :)

Hi briboy15, my name is Chris and I was diagnosed as having a learning problem when I was in 5 grade. Back then they didnt tell you what the diagnoses was nor do I think they knew.

I have always had a difficult with reading and comprehension. First of all what are the LSAT's?

I often go to the www.ldonline.com (http://www.ldonline.com)
and typing in dyslexia. I know you weren't diagnosed with dyslexia, but it is a reading problem and they will have alot of suggestions.

Thank you for the links. I will be sure to look into them. Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated.

The LSAT is the standardized timed test for admittance to law school. I filed for accomodated testing when I intended to take the test last year and was denied. I had 13 pages of analysis and was still denied. I'm assuming it's because I never requested additional time on anything in college (never needed) nor on any previous standardized tests (which I did horrible in RC). They would not provide me with a sufficient reason as to why the denied me. I additionally assume that so many people now a days lie and say they have ADD/ADHD just to get more time on the test, that they are more frequent to deny people. It really hurts people that do have ADD/ADHD :(

Hello, future lawyer!

I'm so sorry I don't have any tips for you to improve your reading comp score, but wanted to chime in and let you know that (undiagnosed/untreated) ADHD did not keep me from scoring well on the LSAT (94th percentile) or succeeding in a fairly highly-ranked law school. My undergrad grades, on the other hand, while not terrible (3.5 from a respected California state university) were not enough to get me in to the Ivy League. No reading problems here, but oh-that-lack-of-focus!

I'm sure some of the other links/tips you'll find here will be helpful. With your attitude, I'm also sure you will succeed! Which schools are you targeting?

Best of luck,
mom23
J.D., U.C. Hastings, class of '96

Hi Mom23,

Although I have ADHD, I believe it is not the lack of concentration from the disease that effects me but more so the RD (ADHD+RD), Reading Disability, aspect of it. It is very difficult for me to understand the main idea of a passage, be able to identify key points in the passage (opposed to what is just jargon and not essentially important) and to pick up inferences from the passage. I just started a pretty intense LSAT course (Testmasters) yesterday and believe that the course can really hone in on my logical reasoning sections (I'm already golden on logic games). I am just nervous/scared about the Reading Comprehension section. I intend to do many passages over and over again, but what good does that do if the same problems continue to arise?

I hope to go to a T14 school. I'm targeting specifically Columbia, Northwestern and Penn just because of where my girlfriend would like to be. I have the grades to get into these schools, I just need to get the score. It would kill me if this held me back and I want to do everything to overcome it!

Any further advice would be great! (Sorry for the repetition...just hoping someone can really help out!)

Hi!
You sound a lot like my son just took the LSAT. He took a prep class-300+$ well spent. I highly recommend this. It is about how to take the test, not your knowledge etc. He was always a crappy test-taker and was sooooo worried.

The class really helped him! He got a 159 or 78%, higher than the admit score for many schools-and is being recruited by quite a few schools and is eligible for scholarships too! They also consider your GPA heavily! His is very, very high too. He will graduate magna or cumma sum laude. That shows a disconnect between testing and ability. He also happens to be a veteran with JAG experience that will help him with admissions. He actually did better the day of the test than on all the practice tests. Oh, we think he may have ADD-but he is doing well thus far-I got through college without a dx too-but worked really hard like him.

You are on the right track with all your practice-it will pay off. You need to get tested for reading difficulties if you think that may be a problem before you take the test. They combine scores-so if you do badly the first time and the very well the second, they average. So do not take it until you are fully ready.

You should also be able to contact the testing company to find out what accommodation are commonly provided and then request the accommodations your doctor feel would help you most. They do this for the GRE, but it takes quite a few weeks to get the paperwork through, so don't wait till the last minute. You will need documentation from your doctor-they should have all the details. Email them, the accommodate disabilities more often than you know and are familiar with the process.

Also, take some time off from studying and thinking about this-distance may improve your performance. Sometimes it is too easy to get lost in the panic and worry. Again-take a class-my son says it was the best thing he could have done! Try finding a very successful high school reading disability teacher and talk to them-they may have suggestions-offer to pay for tutoring. You may need reassurance too-I know you can do it!

One last thought-Why not take some time off between undergrad and law school and work in a law office-you would be refreshed by the break and gain valuable experience that will make law school transition easier. My son also needs the money-got out his 1 suit and resumes and is hitting lawyer row!

Hope this helps-Best of everything!
ME

First let me preface this by saying I feel more comfortable seeking guidance from an ADD message board then a law school message board. I just hope there is someone (at least one person!) out there who is in or has been in a similar situation.

I have studied for the LSAT prior to this and even when untimed, I do horriable on the Reading Comprehension section. I cannot grasp the main idea (even w/ strategies from testing companies) and get well over half the questions wrong. I am in the Washington, DC area and have tried to seek out ADHD/RD tutoring companies to no avail. I do very well on the logic games and logical reasoning (short arguments...sometimes have to read numerous times) but I don't want RC to keep me from reaching my goal.

If anyone can give me advice on strategies, methods or individuals who may be able to help me, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Thanks for your response VisualImagery. I def. think the class will be a BIG help; however, I do not think their advice for the Reading Comprehension section will assist me with grasping things such as the main idea, inferences, etc (things derived from a Reading Disability) from the passage itself.

I actually have done pretty much everything you have recommended. I was going to take the test while still in undergrad in October 2006 and then decided I should seek additional time for the Dec. 2006 LSAT. I was denied the time and decide not to pursue the test (even though I studied quite a bit) to avoid hurting my score. I then took a job after graduation at a top law firm in DC and planned to take the LSAT this June after almost a year away from studying. I want to take the test only once and am not going to push for accomodated testing again. I'm going to have to learn to work with this problem and am seeking anyone who knows of a tutor, teacher or anyone who may be able to help.

Best of luck to your son in law school - I'm sure he'll do great! Anymore advice would be great!

What are your overall scores looking like on your practice tests? Perhaps your logical reasoning scores will pump up the total enough to put you over the top.

How have you done, in the past, on standardized tests (e.g., SAT) that have included reading comprehension? I would imagine they were pretty good if you got into a Big 10 school! How did you approach those exams?

just a couple of tidbits for thought.

mom23

Glad to help, I wish you the best in this-I know the frustration. I am thinking of PhD-and worry about the testing-and at my age too! Somewhere there has to be some type of help-especially in your area. My best to you! Let us know what happens and what you do to overcome this, it would be a big help to everyone with the same struggles.

Thanks for your response VisualImagery. I def. think the class will be a BIG help; however, I do not think their advice for the Reading Comprehension section will assist me with grasping things such as the main idea, inferences, etc (things derived from a Reading Disability) from the passage itself.

I actually have done pretty much everything you have recommended. I was going to take the test while still in undergrad in October 2006 and then decided I should seek additional time for the Dec. 2006 LSAT. I was denied the time and decide not to pursue the test (even though I studied quite a bit) to avoid hurting my score. I then took a job after graduation at a top law firm in DC and planned to take the LSAT this June after almost a year away from studying. I want to take the test only once and am not going to push for accomodated testing again. I'm going to have to learn to work with this problem and am seeking anyone who knows of a tutor, teacher or anyone who may be able to help.

Best of luck to your son in law school - I'm sure he'll do great! Anymore advice would be great!

Hi mom23,

I took the ACT and did very well on the science, math and grammar aspect of it. I did horrible on the reading comprehension section but luckily it was not enough to pull my overall test score down that much. I actually submitted my ACT test to LSAC (LSAT governing body) so they could see the significant difference in sections on my last standardized test but it did no help.'

I was doing extremely well in both logical games and reasoning when I studied for the test last year. After not studying for a year and taking one diagnostic, I was very good at games and not so good at logical reasoning. I anticipate this class helping me in the reasoing aspect of it; however, that still leaves the reading comp. Even if I do real well on both (LR and LG), I still only want to get at most 4 wrong on the RC (now possibly out of 27-28 questions!) to achieve a 170. Therefore, I just need someone, maybe even a child psychologist, to go over reading w/ me to help me better understand what I am reading.

Well, I seem to be perserverating on your problem ;-)

Here are some links to helping students with LDs (including RD) improve reading comprehension:

http://www.ncld.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=521
http://www.ericdigests.org/2001-4/reading.html
http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/instructionalmaterials/a/pq4rstrategy.htm
http://www2.widener.edu/~aad0002/Easternregional.html

Good luck!
mom23

When I took the LSAT, I had the opposite problem: I hammered the RC, but couldn't grasp the logic worth a damn. Fortunately, I was only applying to one school anyway, and my overall score was good enough to get me in. In retrospect, if I had it to do over again, it would have been worth it to study an extra year to master the logic problems. Why? Because if you score high enough on the LSAT, you can get a scholarship and avoid $100,000 (or significantly MORE) in debt. That may not seem like a big deal to you now, but I assure you, it will when you graduate. My advice would be to take your time and do whatever it takes to master the RC ... whatever you come up with will serve you well not only on the LSAT, but in law school, as well. Law school is all about reading comprehension. Good luck!

Sargon wrote:
Law school is all about reading comprehension.

---------------------------------------------------------

I'll second that.

*Everything* comes down, in the end, to how written laws (court precedents and legislation) are interpreted. Understanding the salient points in often convoluted, obfuscatory, and poorly written legal writings is vital.

What kind of law do you want to practice?

mom23

Thanks for your messages. I am actually in contact w/ a company here in metro DC that specializes in this type of thing. I may get a tutor that works w/ college students (I'm close enough :) ) when it comes to reading.

Sargon: Do you have ADHD or ADHD+RD? That's pretty impressive that you could rock the RC section if you do indeed have either.

Mom23: Most likely business. Potentially go into IB or stay on the law side and works on the M&A legal aspect of it.

ADD inattentive. Many ADD'ers have an ability to "grasp" certain concepts and intuit answers. The RC problems fell into this category for me. But the logic had me totally flummoxed.

Briboy- I'm in DC too and just starting to look for a doctor, resources. It took me months to find a psychiatrist, and I'm not even sure how experienced he is. My appointment is in a few weeks.

A couple of ideas:

http://www.readingcoach.net/ looks like a local reading spcialist who might have some resources/tools She seems to have been the ACCOMMODATED EXAMS COORDINATOR at Georgetown University Law Center, 1995-1997

See if GW's hospital has someone on staff that works in this area? (I was originally diagnosed by a Dr. in their Child Psychiatry department, but, of course, can't remember her name.)?

Connect with one of the local ADD groups (I haven't done this yet myself)

Best of luck. Glad to see another person in the DC area here!

I can not believe that they denied you accomodations. What did they say? Did you appeal it? Yeah, I'm in the same situation as you, and have decided to not even bother trying to get accomodations. I'm not sure what I am going to do...the LSAT is making me so unhappy...90th percentile with extra time, 140 without :( I might even have a learning disability. I mix up the variables in LG all the time. Is it possible to go through life without realizing you have a learning disability? What meds are you taking? I'm doing TM as well. PM me if you want to talk more.

I am in the same situation with the LSAC denying me accommodations( four times to be exact) despite having documentation from the age of three. They are awful and I have been in contact with an attorney regarding filing a class action lawsuit against them(primarily in disability friendly CA). Anyone else in this situation? The LSAC is a very hostile organization. Anyone else have issues with these people?

Thank you for the links. I will be sure to look into them. Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated.

The LSAT is the standardized timed test for admittance to law school. I filed for accomodated testing when I intended to take the test last year and was denied. I had 13 pages of analysis and was still denied. I'm assuming it's because I never requested additional time on anything in college (never needed) nor on any previous standardized tests (which I did horrible in RC). They would not provide me with a sufficient reason as to why the denied me. I additionally assume that so many people now a days lie and say they have ADD/ADHD just to get more time on the test, that they are more frequent to deny people. It really hurts people that do have ADD/ADHD :(
Don't give up. I'm not. LSAC denied me as well. I am in a fairly similar situation but the only reason why I didn't request accommodations was because I didn't want to be stereotyped even though I have always needed them. If you are interested I have been in contact with an attorney who knows that LSAC denies 85% of ADD requests for accommodations.

Someone mentioned RD ('reading disability') + ADD/ADHD

Hello?! <g>

ADD affects reading !!!

ADD affects RC (reading comprehension) b/c it is a working memory (WM) deficit...

Some folks with ADD can have a WM that is so poor, that they can't recall what they have read in the previous SENTENCE, let alone the previous "paragraph" or "Page".

Reading to extract important Concepts ('seeing the big picture' and eliminating the noxious irrelevant details) is another area where ADDers can have problems.

['Conceptual Thinking' is likely important on tests like the GRE and LSAT.I know it is in Math and Logic test performance, too. Gotta see that bigger picture. Hard to form that bigger picture if you are stumbling over details and deciding which details are important OR NOT.]

Writing synopses and briefs is important in law, I'd bet. Skills that would come directly from this ability to boil things down into concepts and pictures.

(Dr Mel Levine calls this a problem with "Saliency". or, determining what is vital info, versus what is 'novel' info/stimuli.


ADDers will often, for example, take poor lecture notes b/c they get overwhelmed with the details and miss the 'big points'....[I]


P.S.
I even have 'an undiagnosed friend' with a poor vocabulary for words that she reads (and hears).

I SWEAR it is b/c she can't remember Auditory explanations of Word Definitions, to learn new words. (I can REPEATEDLY tell her definitions and she 'forgets'.)


ADDers often have poor Visual or Auditory working memory when TESTED.

Learn a decent way of identify pices of information and do one sencet outlines next to each parapgraph. If the quest ask about a spefic pice of information like a name scan the passage for what you have designated as you name identifyer you could underline, box, wave ect...

Frankly the lsac will likely deny you extar time becuse everyone wants extar time. The lsac only validity as a test is becuse it is timed. If the lsat were not timed it would be pritty easy to get every answer right and due to this the lsac is likely to deny your claim. Also you must remember the since the current medicaly accepted way to identify ADHD people is threw a self behavoir inventory it is extremly easy to fake for a test so you will defenatly need loads of documentation and a history of the accomidation, well beyond just a 13 page doucment.

Don't know how much this will help, esp. since the Dec. test must be over by now, but - a few things to consider re ADD and the LSAT:

1. The LSAT is hard -> everyone wants to do well -> as noted above, the only real hurdle of the test is time -> not everyone is scrupulous -> pleeeenty of people try to fake a disability

2. This makes LSAC extremely wary; also as noted above, you'll need to jump through crazy hoops to 'prove' you need extra testing time

3. If you do get granted the extra time, there'll be an asterisk next to your score indicating that you got it. Like a scarlet letter. You'll be taking the chance that schools/employers are rational and understanding about your disability - but you won't get the chance to keep it to yourself.

4. Post LSAT, law school and beyond are not going to accommodate much. Research schools/employers before you disclose your status, to see if it makes sense to disclose at all. In college/HS, there are genuinely helpful systems in place. In LS, not so much.

5. I don't want to sound discouraging - you will likely do fine, ADD or not. But do be aware that there isn't a lot of camaraderie/support/understanding in the field. Just be realistic about what you're asking for and what you're likely to get.

I provided over 100 pages of documentation since the age of 5 and they denied me. We are getting ready to file a lawsuit against them in California. They are awful and discriminatory. Don't give up

I'm in law school and I agree w/ Leah's number 4. I applied through the regular category and I never thought of disclosing the fact that I'd been diagnosed w/ ADD. I was diagnosed once at the age of 16 and then in university I went and got another assessment and was told that I don't have an attention disorder but a deficit. Anyhow, either my ADD is low-grade so that it doesn't 'impair' my functioning or my intelligence compensates for it--I don't know, really. I figured if I can't compete with everyone else, then I should think of another career path because at the end of the day, how accommodating will it be for me out in the world of law and if they are unwilling to be accommodating to me, is this something I want to be a part of? Tough questions, I know, but ones that need to be considered.

Alwaysonthego, I think it's more of a cost-benefit analysis. What's the point of accommodations if they don't help much but subject you to potential stigma? I think employers will be more likely to think you "can't cut it" if you were accommodated in the first place. Especially if your grades/scores aren't so good.

As for competing with everyone else, your perceived ability is more likely to matter than your actual ability. LS is very mechanical. If it helps, you can think of meds as a kind of "accommodation."

Lawschoolplease, your documentation certainly sounds like enough! Jeez, what more could they want? Good luck with the suit.

Thanks. As for your comment about "can't compete,etc," the practice of law could suit those with ADHD and who have accommodations just fine. Everyone knows that the practice of law is a long one. Briefs and replies are usually not filed until the absolute last minute by attorneys and from working with attorneys it is recommended that you do not "rush" to file opinions and briefs but take your time to do thorough research. It is also a tactic used in litigation. Yes, there are times when filings need to be done in a hurry but often times that isn't because there wasn't enough advance notice. Why should individuals learning disabilities or other impairments limit their career choices? It looks to me of just another way to discriminate against those who are perceived as "different."

No, there's no good reason one can't study/practice law just fine with an LD or ADHD or whatever. Also no good reason to deny that person accommodations, especially since the law mandates it. But it's like any other kind of discrimination, in place despite institutional lip service to equal opportunity.

I guess I'm just kind of cynical about the process: first you have to prove you're not a liar (the dog and pony show you have to put on for LSAC), then you have to prove you're not an idiot (convincing employers that you'll be able to "compete"). You're just constantly on the defensive, trying to simultaneously prove you need the help, but aren't held back by needing the help. It's insulting. And it's like that everywhere, though imo worse in the legal field. So that's why I extend the caution to pick your school/employer carefully, to avoid nasty surprises. I'm not saying it's right to have to look out for these things, but it is a real concern.

I just have to express some disagreement with a a couple of posts above since I am currently in law school with accommodations. Leah, I understand the cynicism that lawschools wouldn't work with those with ADHD so much. But my experience has been the opposite. I was diagnosed during my 2nd semester at a LS in California and with a 6 page report I received a private room and time-and-a-half for exams. Unfortunately, the time was still not enough and I did run into some opposition when trying to get double-time, but they said it would be approved if I had my psych request it. But this never happened b/c I trnasferred to another LS where I now get the double-time (w/out addl documentation) and I have found the admin extremely supportive. I'm sure it is not this way everywhere, and I'm not in a 'top' school, but I don't want the potential law students to get a wrong impression.

By the way, I also happened to get in as a transfer student with pretty low grades which I believe is partially due to my Addendum that set forth my perseverence in spite of ADHD...

As far as a comment made that needing accommodations in LS may discourage one from the field due to being unable to compete - this is a false assumption b/c almost any lawyer will acknowledge that LS is very different from actual law practice. There are many legal scholars who completely disagree with the exam model used in LS and the bar exam as well, b/c it is not indicative of ones ability to actually practice law.

I could go on and on re this, but I've got to get studying for an exam... which by the way happens to be an 'at home' multiple choice exam b/c many profs are discouraged by the traditional LS exam approach. So don't get too discouraged LSAT takers with ADHD!

Perhaps I am coming in too late on this thread to help, but here's my suggestion on the reading issue. I'm a lawyer, have practiced 15 years, went to a top 25 law school, did well, and never knew I had ADD until recently. I was diagnosed after seeking treatment for what I expected was an anxiety disorder because I was such a terrible procrastinator and it was interfering with my relationships with my partners. (In private practice over 10 years and love it.)

I agree that you have to master this issue because even if you could get past the exam, reading comprehension will be a big part of law school. Lawyering, not so much, necessarily. Lots of really great, successful lawyers don't crack open the books very often. This is particularly true of trial lawyers. I'm an appellate lawyer, though. I need to read and read closely. I aced the bejeezers out of the reading comprehension part (had trouble with those little game things like sitting people around a table or choosing pizzas, what have you, until I took the exam prep. course and then I got it), so as I've been reading this thread I've been trying to think about what works for me.

Think of the writing as a conversation. As you read, ask questions of the author. Write notes in the margins about those questions, or thoughts. Circle things, highlight things. Draw little charts of the relationships between ideas, the facts, etc. You may need to read twice, the first time reading like it's a novel just to get the gist; the second time making all the notes, asking the questions, etc. Realize that the author is trying to tell you something, and if he or she is a good writer, his or her word choices will reinforce the overall message. He or she won't say that someone "requested" something when he or she wants to make that person's request look unreasonable. He or she will say that so-and-so "demanded" whatever it was. Do you follow me? When you read truly outstanding legal writers like the Seventh Circuit Judge Posner, for example, you can read their stuff like a novel because every piece of it is put together so that it looks almost effortless. But most other writers are not so adept, and you end up having to tease out the message a little more by examining word choice, the order in which they discuss things, etc. This is how I end up doing what I do. I dissect caselaw (or statutes, or regulations, or whatever) and re-assemble them into support for my position. You have to first fully understand the author's reasoning before you can manipulate it (ok, yeah, I manipulate it). And the author's reasoning is not always the same as what he or she says, particularly if he or she is merely a so-so writer.

I am a slower reader of caselaw, etc. than my compadres, always have been. But I can plow through a novel in a matter of a few hours. When I read cases, particularly the ones that are critical to my arguments, I'm dissecting, asking why the author talked about this concept here, instead of earlier, or later, for example, which tells you something about the logic in their reasoning. Since you're good at logic, once you see the writers' messages as a little bit more like an equation, you might find it easier.

Sometimes I'll even map out an argument. I'll number each of the paragraphs and identify the key concept in that paragraph (good authors will usually stick to one main concept per paragraph), and then write out the key concepts as sentences and map out the logic flowing from one concept to the next. You'll identify logical holes that way, or assumptions that underlie the reasoning but are unspoken.

Just a thought. Hope it helps.

Sandy

My LSAT adventures might not help the original poster much but I thought I'd share.

Logic games were just impossible for me -- I couldn't finish a single game. Like Sargon and Sandy, I had a much easier time with the reading sections. However, the "logic games bible" really helped and my LSAT score was in the 172, 99%ile. The book wasn't very expensive, maybe $30 new. I also prepped with old LSATs bought online for about $10 each.
<o>:p> </o>:p>
I sat for my first LSAT after some half-hearted prepping. That experience scared and motivated me to actually sit down and work LSAT problems throughout the three months up to the next LSAT. Spend the hundred bucks and sit for an actual LSAT if you're having trouble studying. Up to two (I think) tests can be cancelled and the scores not revealed.
<o>:p> </o>:p>
Was diagnosed Adhd-inattentive after my first year of school and it's been tough trying to figure out medication and lifestyle while going to classes. Sometimes everything just slips through my mind but on the best days it's like playing outside with my friends again, it's so natural. (and no, it's not med-euphoria; far better, actually)

Anyway, I'd better end here because I sense slippage into hyperfocused dawdling....
<o>:p> </o>:p>
have fun!