I am having an issue with peking order where I work. I seem to be very quiet when I start a new job then I begin to get used to the people I work with.

Then they begin to pick me out as a target for being a scape goat and the object of jokes. I try to be friendly with everyone and they are a rougher group to work with, but I don't really know how to handle this.

I think the impression is that I think I'm too good for them, Possible that I'm not as smart as them and an easy person to raise themselves up by lowering.

What do I say to them? As it is now, I get a sort've stunned feeling and freeze up. I am not able to return the jokes as quickly and get a sort've social anxiety around the more abrassive ones.

I feel like I'm alone at work sometimes. I haven't had this job very long.

I feel like a wimp for being a guy who is like this. I can only be what I am I guess. I've never understood the whole male hierarchy thing.

What should I do?

Don't know if I can give you any advice on what to do in this situation, because I've had lots of similar experiences and could never figure out what to do. There's a certain kind of kind of agressive male attitude that I can't deal with among certain groups of, I dunno, stereotypical guys. I clam up and can't respond and end up feeling like an ultra dork. But that's only with certain types of people. Otherwise, when I am more relaxed and don't feel like I have to wave my manhood around, I can take people's ribbing me and respond back pretty well. And better yet, I just don't care as much if people think I am wierd.

Maybe if you can figure out a way to just relax and be yourself, they'll realize that picking on the new guy to mask their insecurity just isn't cool. Hang in there....

-g

.
"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day (If you feel like it)
Teach him to fish and feed him for a life time (He may never need you again) Dependancy is a terrible thing"


That's pretty good oddjobace. However, I always thought it should have read:


"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he spends the rest of his life in a boat drinking beer." :o
.

.
"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day (If you feel like it)
Teach him to fish and feed him for a life time (He may never need you again) Dependancy is a terrible thing"


That's pretty good oddjobace. However, I always thought it should have read:


"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he spends the rest of his life in a boat drinking beer." :o
.
Thanks, I always like to make new ones like..."You have nothing to fear but Fear itself and the fear of having no fear, hurting you."

Scatter-G,

Thanks, I'll be the person I am. And let the chips fall where they will.

What is a drag is that it may hinder me from advancement in the company. Nobody likes a person who isn't a team player. I think it's sometimes viewed like this.

I've been in a couple of workplaces dominated by bullies. Most people think of managerial bullying but I've experienced the playground type in the workplace too frequently to want to stay in any job that I sense it in.

Once the bully(s) get established the abusive and bullying culture will become so deeply engrained in the work culture it is almost impossible to remove. As an addition to that some industries have a domineering and aggressive workplace atmosphere, parts of the construction industry in the UK being an example.

There's a difference between the usual male pecking order thing and outright bullying, alpha male types are easy to spot, and are usually not bullys..they don't have to be. Bullys are people who know they're not alpha males but try to be.

Its tough and took me years to work out how to spot how the workplace interpersonal dynamics operated on the ground in the various places I'd worked.

My strategy has alway been to get out and move on. Its just not worth the mental and emotional battering. Move on and find a friendly place to spend half your waking hours.....if you think that things won't settle down eventually.

I've been in a couple of workplaces dominated by bullies. Most people think of managerial bullying but I've experienced the playground type in the workplace too frequently to want to stay in any job that I sense it in.

Once the bully(s) get established the abusive and bullying culture will become so deeply engrained in the work culture it is almost impossible to remove. As an addition to that some industries have a domineering and aggressive workplace atmosphere, parts of the construction industry in the UK being an example.

There's a difference between the usual male pecking order thing and outright bullying, alpha male types are easy to spot, and are usually not bullys..they don't have to be. Bullys are people who know they're not alpha males but try to be.

Its tough and took me years to work out how to spot how the workplace interpersonal dynamics operated on the ground in the various places I'd worked.

My strategy has alway been to get out and move on. Its just not worth the mental and emotional battering. Move on and find a friendly place to spend half your waking hours.....if you think that things won't settle down eventually.
Yeah! What he said! Especially the part about "Bullies are people who know they are not alpha males but try to be". Oh, so true indeed! Same is true for women in the workplace. "Estrogen Gone Awry". Might be a good reality TV series! :D

Oddjobace,

Think of your new job like a new prisoner views prison. By that I mean, if you don't want to be someone's ***** you have to find the meanest one in the place and kick his butt.

Of course, you can't physically kick his butt--you have to do it mentally.

Think about who the instigator of the bullying is. You know, the guy who starts it and everyone else chimes in because they're happy that you're the target.

Now, take the weekend and write a bunch of responses to the rebuttal you'll get when you do this on MONDAY:

Wait until there are a lot of people around to hear you, then look at the non-alpha male wanna be and say: "Hey, Jane, congratulations!"
then wait a couple of seconds

just before he responds

say as LOUD as you can:

"I saw on the news last night that you WON the cross dressing contest over the weekend! Way to go! How did you have the courage to let them video tape you?" (You will get laughs and people will be stunned that you spoke up.)

Then look at your watch and say...crap..I'm suppose to meet with the boss...gotta go...and go find your boss and wish them a Happy Monday!

If your boss is the bully--report it as workplace Harassment immediately!

If the harassment continues after you do this go to HR and tell them you want to formally report a harassing environment that you feel will eventually interfere with your ability to advance in the company.

Every company is required, by law, to have a workplace harassment prevention policy. If you're in California or CT the laws are even stronger there.

NOTE: the responses you are writing over the weekend are "comebacks" to whatever you imagine Jimmy the Jerk will have to say after you compliment him on what a nice skirt he is wearing today.

[QUOTE=FightingBoredom]

Now, take the weekend and write a bunch of responses to the rebuttal you'll get when you do this on MONDAY [QUOTE]

I second that. And the rest, but that especially. Have a list of canned one liners that you can come back with. I had a friend who used to get grief off of girls. His comeback?

"Yeah? Well you're ugly"

It shut them up fast and if it didn't he would just repeat it. Granted, he was the arrogant type and he deserved the grief but the point is if you have one liners that you can repeat then the other party has nothing to go at.

Also, it's just until you relax enough around them to think on the spot. Once you stop focusing on what you should say it will just come naturally.

Good look mate, bullies are ********. If all else fails then don't be afraid to complain. You have a right to be there as much as they do.

Failing all of that then pee in their coffee ;)

Thanks a lot for the advice guys.

Today, Good Friday, I just had one of the young, new punks say some stupid thing about a suggestion I made to resolve a challenge we were having. He replied with some line from a movie like. " Oh, now theres an idea, why didn't I think of that. Yuk Yuk". I just looked at him like what the hell was that for and chuckled and walked away.

After a major downsizing in the industry I was in, I ended up here.
It adds insult to injury. I live in Michigan and we are hit very hard with a drop in manufacturing jobs.

I was let go from my designer job, then 3 months later I found another one for less, then after a year they closed up shop, then I found a third for less money once again. Then they let me go after they got the design they needed from me. Then my marriage ended abruptly within a week of any sign of problems with it. She took me good.

I just want to get back on my feet again. I feel like I am stuck in a spot that is really bad. I try really hard and yet here I am working with a sespool of people who are mean and kick me when ever I show the slightest weekness. Many of them are probably upset too because the economy is so bad. I understand this, but come on, have some class.

I had to change industries to make money. It's like they have seen where I came from and are using it like you say in a prison setting.

I just want to work and do the best I can, and take pride in my work and come home. I am so tired of dealing with the bottom of the heap.

I have read what I just wrote and it sounds like I'm playing the victim role. I need to see myself in a better light I guess.

Hey, I've been where you're at...in the job market and how I felt about it.

You sound like a fighter and you'll make it.

Find someone in the company that is positive and interact with them and talk about the great things that happen. Use each other to remind yourselves that every day above ground is a good day.

IGNORE the ignorant as best you can. It's like walking through a park with goose poop on the ground. You step around it to get to the playground and play with your kids.

You can either focus on the poop or enjoy playing with your kids. The poop is always going to be there. The ignorant are always going to be there. Just step around them and laugh...knowing that someday they will also be fertilizer. :D

Eventually it will all work out and you will end up where you want to be.

I moved on from a job just like that. Except I worked w/ a bunch of catty women.:p They would do the same thing, pick on the weaker ones just to elevate themselves. I had a friend at the office and when I left, I told my boss to watch out for her. Less then two weeks later, they started in on her. She confronted the boss about it and I hope for her sake he jumped on it right away. He mishandled me, and I think he's felt guilty for it. So, he's trying to fix things. I've washed my hands of it. I'm fortunate to be in that situation where I can leave.

Sorry OddJob about your position. Hopefully you do have a buddy you can rely on at work. That's what kept me happy for so long. It just got too tough w/ them making fun of me and treating me differently from day to day. I never knew how they were gonna act around me..... I thought women were the only ones to do that!

Hang in there and surround yourself with good people and good friends....

Good luck!

Good old oppression theory strikes again.

Yeesh. Will we ever escape bullying?

#1 Tip: keep a journal/calendar of "incidents".

-Document, document, document. (Keep a special Journal jsut for this, use Times, and Dates and Places and Names...)

-Document using "Quotes" of what was said to you and the non-verbal too. (eg sarcasm, intrusive behaviors, gossip you hear back about yourself, creating humiliation, rages, things that are designed to make one 'feel small'.)

-Document using "Behaviors" and descriptions of "incidents" that occur. (eg loud voices; mocking; poking the chest; sneers; pounding fist on desk; whispering in front of me to colleagues, then turning to look at me and laughing)

We can get so overwhelmed by it all (the Layer of incidents) that we Forget the details when we need to recall them during help-seeking. (Stress affects memory recall.)

Documenting also helps "keep it real" when we feel overwhelmed and like "we" are the ones going crazy. :) The facts help remind us that it is THEM, not US.

---------------

Trust me, it will come in handy some day. Esp. if you have to file for "constructive dismissal".

http://www.workopolis.com/servlet/Content/fasttrack/20010430/MGECHL

This is a Legal Concept that a job environment for an Employee can become so toxic and so bad (harassment, etc) that a person "has to quit", due to the poisoned environment.

The Labour laws often recognise this.

------------

- One protection against Bullyiing, i was reading today, is to get a Close Friend in such a situation. You can stick up for each other, or intervene. :) It is also important for mental health and advocacy.

-Breaking the silence about it (to someone you trust) on the job may help too. (e.g. your Boss)

-Does your company have an EAP program? (employee assistance program) Phoning them might help.

-If there is no EAP, i'd suggest talking to a Social Worker. They are probably the best Resource in getting advice in dealing with lateral aggression such as Bullying.

-Sometimes talking to the HR Dept can help. (They are often motivated to help stop problems at the root b/c Bullying affects Staff Retention and this costs the company $$$.)

You know your own Work Environment and Culture best to make decisions about what I've said that will work best for this setting. (Perhaps all my suggestions are not relevant or wise. e.g. if it is a tiny or family-owned company.)

Thanks for all the great advice,

In the corporate world, there are many things that are avialable to us for help, one of which is HR. Usually in a situation that is at the, lets just say, less than professional level, reporting an incident does not help you. My boss will more than likely view me as someone who is not a team player. He may also begin to use similar practices of rudeness to render himself one of the team and one of the guys. To gain an acceptance from the majority.

This is a big one that I've already seen happen to someone they wanted to get rid of: He noticed something that was bothering him about a guy I worked with. He appeared to be Gay, I have talked with him and he is just a nice guy who has a family and is coming to work and doing his thing to get by. He doesn't like haning out with the losers and wants to do his job right.

I really don't care about what he does in his spare time. Maybe he is, so what. Well not the case with 80 percent of the people there, they even made a rude joke about him at the 4 year aniversary party, saying he was a "Q**er" and "F*g". I felt horrible for him, he wasn't even there. I looked at my boss to see his shocked expression, and he was chuckling along with the guys.

Fast forward... They changed all of his schedule to make him uncomfortable. This guy happened to break one of the many strange rules, he had an emergency and didn't show on time and call to say so, the boss wrote him up, then he was asked to do something using equipement that was inferior and resulted in the job turning into a mess they wrote him up again. See what's happening here? They told him not to bother coming in, there wasn't enough work anyway. Several times doing this and he got the message.

He was gone for about 2 to 3 weeks, It turned out that he did preservere and returned and asked for his job and to be able to do his job in an environment that is not hostile. He is now back to work. He is still ridiculed. He plans to go to Arizona and work. I just came back from there on vacation. I talked with him about Arizon. but I may now be his replacement in that role. The crew is working hard to link me with him, I befriended him and have heard something about Arizona, me and him etc... It is so childish. But also so demeaning and difficult to work in this evironment.

My point is, I am considering telling my boss I have ADD and Anxiety but fear it will end with him firing me for something. The write for them serve as documentation that will keep someone from filing an unemployment case.

I know what most of you may be saying, get another job. Doing what? The place I came from is loaded with applicants who were let go from other jobs.

As far as the journal? I am writing in it. It may even be a short story. It is the only way I've found to get it of my chest and to rationalize what is really going on.

Thanks folk for being the other way for me to get things off my chest.

Regards,

Hey Odd. Like I said, I was lucky enough to be able to move on. So many, like you are not that fortunate. I understand the "ratting out" is not gonna help and I'm not a fake person. I couldn't be like the others, be mean and blend in.

Keep up the documenting. Queen's got a good point. So if a "problem" comes up, you've got a clear picture of the situation. Vent on us or trusing friends at work and know that many have been in the situation. Hopefully we can help, or at least be there for you.

Good luck!

Document the aggressive and bullying behaviors and if you feel up to it, complain to your HR department. I believe in most states companies are required to provide harrassment free workplaces. If nothing else, the complaint will bring the situation to management's attention, and if there's one thing they don't want to deal with it is their state's dept of labor beginning an investigation into their workplace environment.

Vent on us or trusing friends at work and know that many have been in the situation. Hopefully we can help, or at least be there for you.

Good luck!
Thanks so much for being there for me.

and if there's one thing they don't want to deal with it is their state's dept of labor beginning an investigation into their workplace environment.
I agree with you on thatt.

I hope I don't sound insensitive, because I can definitely understand how this could be bothersome for you.

I mean it's very hard to tell from this discription, but could it be that they were just ribbing you in the beginning? I know my friends and I do this to each other all the time, and from the outside it may seem mean. The problem is, if that is what they were doing, the fact that you didn't do it back may have made it seem like you weren't part of the group to them.

Now, understanding that you have anxiety and such, I can see how ribbing could really get under your skin. The truth is that it used to really do that to me, too. However, as others have said, if they are really sending digging insults your way, you should keep track of any incidents that occur, because they are no better than a group of bullies in school.

One thing I would suggest is trying to get one member of that group alone and talking to him one on one about anything. That will allow you to see an individual in the group by himself, rather than acting out his social role. This should really allow you to see whether the group is made up of decent guys or a bunch of punks.

I hope that helps a little, feel free to msg me.

I hope I don't sound insensitive, because I can definitely understand how this could be bothersome for you.

I mean it's very hard to tell from this discription, but could it be that they were just ribbing you in the beginning? I know my friends and I do this to each other all the time, and from the outside it may seem mean. The problem is, if that is what they were doing, the fact that you didn't do it back may have made it seem like you weren't part of the group
This could very well be true. I sometimes personalize things and am very sensitive. Most guys are very good about giving and taking jabs. I guess I never learned how. I have an older sister and no brothers. Most of my friends are females.

I was always picked on as a kid for being so much of an out cast and I'm pretty sure this is mostly me and the messages I send out.

Thanks for lending an ear.

I'm overly sensitive to those kind of things too, Odd. I know it's from growing up a bit "different". I had soo much crap given to me in high school, I eventually gave up and transferred H.S.'s. Too much bullying... That's why I have such a low tolerance for it now.

Go with your gut (as far as if they are joking or not). Maybe you can rehearse "snappy replies" at home so you can be prepared to verbally defend yourself. Either, telling them to "cut the crap" or do a joke reply so it looks like your trying to fit in....

Tough situation....:faint:

Go with your gut (as far as if they are joking or not). Maybe you can rehearse "snappy replies" at home so you can be prepared to verbally defend yourself. Either, telling them to "cut the crap" or do a joke reply so it looks like your trying to fit in....
Tough situation....:faint:
I'm pretty sure they are just a bunch of rough guy's. I am used to a more polite atmosphere. I was in a white collar field for more than a decade. This is blue collar. Please don't think I'm taking a jab at blue collar. It's just differant.

I always think that I wouldn't intentionally say something to someone that would hurt thier feelings. So why do they?

The problem is, they are not me. It is wrong for me to expect others to act as I would.

I have very little control over the things that they say, I can't change them, I can't give them morals or show any sign of them getting one over on me.

All I can do is be a nice guy who has a good heart (Not boasting here) and treat people nicely and fairly. Hopefully some will rub off.

I am not perfect either, we are all created for a reason.

I will not let anger and bitterness get into my heart. I am promising myself this right now.