Virginia Tech-I am watching the news and 32 people are dead after a domestic dispute. It started in a dorm and then ended with 30 killed in a German classroom then the shooter killed himself. Total of 33 deaths in such a short time.

My heart goes out to the families who lost loved one and the students and the professor's family who are now grieving. I just hope everyone on the forum is ok-and we have so many college students here.

I remember the University of Texas clocktower shootings years ago. 16 died then. Why do these things happen? What goes wrong-where and when do things go wrong? Perhaps someday we will be able to understand things like this and prevent them.

Keep these people in your thoughts, prayers, meditations.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-04-16-virginia-tech_N.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/?GT1=9246

What an awful thing. I work in a dorm at my university - I'm sure the Residence Life Staff will be meeting about this sometime soon. All of those poor people...

The Moms & Dads, other family members & those at the University itself have been in my Thoughts & Prayers since I first heard about it this morning. I even Posted at another site, as you did here, asking for Prayers for all effected by this.

As a Mom, I can only imagine what the parents of the students there went through today/are going through waiting for word. And for those that the news was not good. Or that heard that their child had been injured......but in days to come will join the parents that lost a child(ren) today. Well.........I do know what it is like to bury a child. And even if they're an adult by the worlds standards.....they're still your child. And the Professor was someone's child. And possibley someones husband & father.

I also remember the shooting at the University of Texas clocktower....as well as Kent State. And how vividly this brings back the feelings that surrounded Columbine.

It was Very Caring & Thoughtful of you to post this. You're one of many people that make this Community the Supportative, Caring & Encouraging place that it is.

BlessedLady

Blessed Lady, I am so sorry you had to bury a beloved child. Your heart must really be hurting tonight. It must be hard to watch this and listen to the survivors speak. Thank you for sharing, I treasure the strength it took to type those words and share your loss.

A 19 year old in our town killed his entire family a number of years ago and another family was murdered by a serial killer in a small town nearby. I remember the terror and grief we all went through during those tragedies. That was hard and everyone remembers the victims and the effect it had on our security. This is a small town, but we have a very high murder rate. Some of those who died I knew of knew of. One man was a volunteer in an organization I was in.

My son is a senior in college-and was an RA at one time. He was a USMC when the war started-didn't go to Iraq, but lost friends from boot camp and from Yuma. I remember his phone call home, he had written their wills at the JAG office. I wept when we hung up, this Marine was almost in tears on the phone. I wonder what the students at his school, my alma mater are feeling tonight. I saw a picture of the RA who was killed in the first shooting. He was to graduate next month-with 3 degrees. Dear God, what a waste of a beautiful life. I don't know what the graduation will be like, but when I got my master's, the parents of a student who died in a car crash just before graduation accepted his diploma at the ceremony. I cannot put in words the emotional response to this mother and father's strength to be there after such a loss.

I do not know how people hold up through all of this tragedy. Please remember to pray or offer your thoughts, etc, for those who saw their classmates/professors die and the police and rescue personnel who responded. They are at high risk of PTSD, depression, and other trauma. The parents of the man/men who did this must have a grief beyond comprehension.

I just heard that the Romanian? professor, Librescu-a holocaust survivor, threw himself in front of the gunman, saving the lives of many of his students. That gave me cold chills, what a sacrifice-what love he must have had for his students.

Bioguy, I am putting faces to these names-maybe it will make this tragedy something people can relate to much better.

These are five of the professors/faculty who died.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070417/070417_victims_librescu11a.small.jpg
Liviu Librescu, 76, an engineering science and mathematics lecturer, tried to stop the gunman from entering his classroom by blocking the door before he was fatally shot, his son said today from Tel Aviv, Israel.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," said Joe Librescu. "Students started opening windows and jumping out.
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070417/070417_victim_granata11a.standard.jpg

Kevin Granata, 45, an engineering science and mechanics professor who was married and had three children. He had served in the military and later conducted orthopedic research in hospitals before going to Virginia Tech, where he and his students researched muscle and reflex response and robotics.

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070417/070417_logan_vsmall_9a.small.jpg
Indian-born G.V. Loganathan, 51, a lecturer at the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, was felled by the gunman, his brother G.V. Palanivel told the NDTV news channel from the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu. Palanivel said he was informed by Loganathan's wife, who had identified the body.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070417/070417_victims_nowak1p.small.jpg

Jocelyne Couture-Nowak, age unknown, a French language teacher and former Montreal resident, according to the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. Her husband, Jerzy Nowak, is a Virginia Tech horticulture professor.

http://www.fdi.vt.edu/presenters/images/bishop_jamie.jpg
Jamie Bishop, 35, an instructor in German and German literature. According to his Web site, Bishop spent four years living in Germany, where he "spent most of his time learning the language, teaching English, drinking large quantities of wheat beer, and wooing a certain fraulein." The "fraulein" was Bishop’s wife, Stephanie Hofer, who also teaches in Virginia Tech’s German program.

Yes O I Was Very Sorry To Hear About The The Killing But Was Glade To To Know That You Are Ok Raddmom An Cnyde As Well!..... Be Safe I Hope There Be Chances To The Gun Laws There Now!.....

Dorm

I heard something that said he may have been on meds for depression. Has anyone else heard this?

I heard something that said he may have been on meds for depression. Has anyone else heard this?Not yet and I've had the news on for several hours. What a waste.

Nothing on CNN-I heard he refused to go to counseling, his roommates said he had an imaginary girlfriend, but nothing about psychiatric care mentioned-I had CNN on all day today. He was hospitalized for 2 days after threatening to take his life-roommates reported him, but he was released and on his own. No one has identified a dr. or medications, or received any other mental health services. I reported someone to the police in my town for threatening suicide-they have to respond by law-and take them to the hospital if there is any indication they are serious about harming self or others.

College campuses have tons of mental health services-his English teacher tried to get help, reported his writings to police and administrators, and did everything she could. At my alma mater, you could see a phd psychologis for $5 in 2002. Money is not usually and issued for getting care on campus-mental health issues are hot topics and concerns for most college/universities-there is a huge need for them.

This is tragic-but people really tried to help him and do the right thing when he evidenced problems. But you can't force meds, counseling, and the like. Only time will tell what else was going on in this person's life.

VisualImagery,

Posting the Pictures is a Wonderful idea ! This morning in one of the Press Conferences that was broadcasted. The Medical Examiner for the Common Wealth of Virginina said that they were still identifying some of the victims this morning. For some of the students they had had to contact the families for something that they could use...be it fingerprints, DNA, ect. Evidentially due to the condition of the dorms they couldn't be sure exactly what belonged to whom. I remember thinking that as these families were getting their child(ren) ready & off to College. I'm sure that this is one thing that never crossed anyones mind that would ever be needed.:(
The Shooter was a Senior, 23 yrs old...I believe. I don't remember what I was doing when I heard the report that one of the victims had survived being in one of the camps in Nazi Germany....but whatever it was I was doing, I stopped & just stood there for a few mins. What A Waste.
Those 3 small words speak so accurrately & loudly.
At the Memorial Service that President & Mrs Bush were at. There was a Mom & Dad that had lost their only child.
My next to youngest daughter got her degree this past May. Because she went to a Private Christian College no weapons are allowed on Campus. I didn't worry about her like I had when she had gone to school those 12 yrs before she entered College. And my youngest goes to College at a Satalite that is located on a Military Base. But the bottom line is that the guy at Virginia Tech was "one of them" he was a student. At Columbine it was Students. How do you protect your kids from their fellow students. Even though my youngest doesn't live on Base or what might be the equavilent of a Campus & I was talking to her yesterday morning when the first report came on about the Virginia Tech shooting......I still called her this morning. When she asked what I wanted, I told her just to hear her voice & to know that she is ok. And even though my next to youngest finished College in May I did the same thing with her.
I though about all of the Moms & Dads that won't ever be able to do that again & the fact that they would give anything including their own lifes to be able to do it just one more time. I know that this probably sounds weird but being Blessed with being able to pick up the phone & talk to my daughters, to hear their voices, to know that they are ok....somehow not picking up the phone & calling them just seemed wrong. But my 2 youngest are use to it because when I hear about a wreck that is close to where they live/work, a robbery at a store I know they go to or gas station, ect.....I always call them, just to be sure they are ok.

BlessedLady

I know someone who lost her son in the shooting. He was in a french class. I don't know the details as to what actually happened in the classroom. I stopped listening after I heard the news of her son, too much media overload. As of today she was on her way down to identify and bring him back. It is the worst nightmare for a parent.

I can't help thinking though that these things are inevitable in a campus the size of Virginia Tech 26,000 students and all pretty much open to the public. There's not much you can do unfortunately.

The bigger question though is what can we do as a society here and all over the world to stop all this senseless violence?

This is what I found on Foxnews.com.

"News reports also said that he may have been taking medication for depression, that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic" Foxnews.com

I am just worried that this will have a bad spin on it. Some how it will come out that hte student had ADD or was Bipolar or something, more bad publicity for people who suffer from mental ilness.

this is something I wrote in responce to the news last night and today

Sanctuary Lost




The air it smells of gunfire,
The percussion downs out a scream,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

They shake and close their dripping eyes,<o:p></o:p>

Praying this is just some dream.<o:p></o:p>

How did they get here?<o:p></o:p>

This place that they call hell.<o:p></o:p>

This scene is to often repeated,<o:p></o:p>

One we all know to well.<o:p></o:p>

It hardens our hearts, and cools our blood,<o:p></o:p>

Assuring that our innocence is lost.<o:p></o:p>

Yet we push to be number one,<o:p></o:p>

We want to win no matter what the cost.<o:p></o:p>

So we teach our children we show them what to do.<o:p></o:p>

It does not matter how you do it how you get the prize.<o:p></o:p>

Just don’t show your emotion, not what you really feel<o:p></o:p>

after all only a baby truly cries.<o:p></o:p>

Does it matter if we crush them?<o:p></o:p>

The ones that are in our way?<o:p></o:p>

Does it matter if we hurt them?<o:p></o:p>

As long as we succeed for at leat one more day?<o:p></o:p>

Then once again someone loses it, <o:p></o:p>
Lives are lost the darkest thief. <o:p></o:p>
A gun is used and shots are fired.<o:p></o:p>
The nation cries, mothers show thier grief.<o:p></o:p>
Is there any sence,<o:p></o:p>
Any form of sanity in a world gone mad.<o:p></o:p>
Is there any place to hide, any safe retreate<o:p></o:p>
Some form of santuray we felt we once had. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

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I know someone who lost her son in the shooting. He was in a french class.
Swede63,
If you are ok with it & feel that it might offer some comfort. You are more than Welcome to share with her the Prayers that I'm sending up. And now that I have heard from someone who personally knows a Mom that lost her son , I will say a seperate Prayer for her. I can't speak for others in this Thread....only myself.
Even though the circumstances were different I also buried my son, he was in his early 20's. There are no words that I can think of that can describe what that is like. Oh how very much my Heart hurts for her.

BlessedLady

am just worried that this will have a bad spin on it. Some how it will come out that hte student had ADD or was Bipolar or something, more bad publicity for people who suffer from mental ilness.


Hmm no ADD but bi-polar has been mentioned as a possibility in other places on-line. The ones I ran across and could respond have been throughly corrected in their erroneous thinking and condition blaming.

Luckily my presentation was well received by most others

This is a tragedy and should not be used to create stigmas or pursue personal political agendas. This should be a time of support for those whose lives were lost, lost loved ones and those who have been forever scared by this event.

Meadd and all, I have thought about the same thing-that this could lead to misunderstanding of mental health issues. The fact that this tragedy occurred at least 2 years after numerous people reported his problems and actions to the police, school officials, and a 2 day hospitalization, shows that he made the decsion to refuse all help and the legal limits on "forcing" someone to get psychiatric care and counseling. The points that I feel separate this man's actions from the vast majority of those with any form of mental illness are that this type of response is rare, it is a final reaction to a very long-term sequence of illness, life events, anger, and lack of psychiatric treatment. I would tell others would be heinous and cruel to put a negative spin on other people with mental disabilties.

Many of those who survived this tragedy, those who lost loved ones, and the police/resuce/hospital personnel are at high risk of developing depression, PTSD, or even committing suicide. This is evidenced by the follow up studies and data from other tragedies like the Oklahoma City Federal Building explosion, 911 disasters, Hurricane Katrina, and so many others. Certainly these survivors are nothing like the person who caused the Virginia Tech tragedy. It would add insult to injury to lump their struggles to heal and recover with this man's actions/mental illness. I believe most people would understand this perspective. There were quite a few suicides among emergency responders and family survivors to the OK bombings, and many others have PTSD and severe, recurring depression. The majority of these people received mental health care and trauma counseling. The repercussions of a tragedy like this do not end, ask any war veteran if they ever forget the friends they lost or the horrors they experienced.

Woe betide anyone who "flames" or otherwise denigrates (in my presence) people with any form of mental illness based on the actions of this person-he had many people who cared about him and tried to help him, he made many choices to refuse help, he made the decision to do what he did. The big question-do we change the law to require people with mental illness to take medication and get counseling? Will this work? Does it violate individual rights?

He stalked several coeds at VT. Making tougher order of protection laws and enforcement would help those who are stalked by people like this. If it continues, they should be arrested and required to undergo a psychiatric screening since evidence shows most stalkers have some type of untreated or unrecognized mental disorder. Think about John Hinckley and the guy who killed Rebecca Schafer, along with many of the less famous or unpublicized stalkers. If stalking was a felony or considered an imminent danger to a person or society, it might have gotten this person off the streets and receiving mandated psychiatric care long before he began his plan to shoot so many and kill himself. This response would be based on a person's actions and not be a bad reflection on others with mental illness. It would not violate individual rights-it would ensure the rights of victims to continue their "pursuit of happiness" instead of living in fear of their stalker, IMHO. Prevention of tragedies like this should be taken seriously.

A few of my thoughts, food for your thoughts. I am angry that there were so many signs and evidence of problems with this person that were not taken seriously depspite the efforts of so many to get him help or report him to police and administration.

Certainly our thoughts in Canada go out to folks in Virginia, and not just because a professor was "one of our own".

Those of us that live in Montreal have been very sensitized to school rampage shootings... there have been no less than 3 such incidents the past 15 or 20 years, the last of which was just a few months ago. We've lived this experience far too often, considering that having it happen just once is "too often".

Sorry, wish I could be more eloquent about this, but I feel struck dumb, as I always do with such events.

-Scot

Visual, unfortunately colleges often do not have enough counseling staff for all of the students who want to seek counseling. I remember someone being told that she would have to wait a month to see a counselor because it wasn't an "emergency." I think that more resources need to be provided for preventive mental health care.

Swede I think that one of the things we can do it provider greater access to mental health care for persons who are uninsured or underinsured. It can be very hard to get help for mental health issues even when you want help.

Swede I think that one of the things we can do it provider greater access to mental health care for persons who are uninsured or underinsured. It can be very hard to get help for mental health issues even when you want help.


With this I agree whole heartedly.

This man received counseling and was released into an out patent program. Despite his hostile anger and horrible crime Cho was smart enough to tell the counselor's what they needed to hear which is why he was released.

The scary thing is Cho's line of thinking was not physotic it was more perspective based than any thing. Before details of him were released I participated in a discussion about the line of thinking an individual had to have to do such a horrendous thing. This is the same discussion in which bi-polar was mentioned. All I had to do was magnify my own feelings of anger / social isolation and deny responsibility for my own feelings. My blurb which translated into a guess was amazingly accurate so much so it scared even me.

The big difference here that I can see is the blame game. Cho did not feel responsible for his emotions he blamed them on society. He was not physoctic nor did he appear delusional either condition would have decreased his ability to do such a thing with obvious intent , premeditation and unfortunately success.

I feel for this man's family who probably are living in fear of being punished for their son actions. No one is immune to bad behavior luckily most do accept enough responsibility for their actions as to not become mass murders.

Social intolerance did play a part in this in my honest opinion however we are each responsible for or own thoughts words and actions no matter how others treat us nor should our neurodiversity be an excuse lest we become a toxic person ourselves. My big problem here is society's lack of willingness to accept it's part of this entire ordeal. I see this as an indication of our own societies toxicity.