View Full Version : Learning Breakthrough and Personal Experience: A Sister Thread


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trying
05-23-07, 05:27 AM
Hello everyone.

I want to start this as a side thread, similar in nature to the DORE one, for people to post their experiences with specifically the Learning Breakthrough balance board program. To talk, to share, to comfort. I noticed some talk of it in DORE, but I think this is a good idea to see how the program has worked for those who've tried it.

My personal interest here being I am now a customer of the program, I've been doing the exercises for a week now.

I'll go into more detail as to things like: my own personal etiology of inattentive ADD (helpful to state no doubt), some personal miscellanea, the nature of the exercises, (hopefully) my progress, etc.

But I don't have the focus to do so right now. Soon ... soon ...

Teadrinker2005
05-23-07, 06:33 AM
Hello trying,

At last someone else trying the LBT-I've been on it for several weeks-its a fine act of balancing/ juggling and fitting it into your daily routine.

If you want support,give me a shout,cos i know i'll need it.

Top banana & Well done for starting this thread,really looking forward to your insights and progress.

Stay Focused.

Td

C'mon Liverpoooooool-Champions League Final tonite.

lelly88
05-23-07, 07:18 AM
Brilliant, this is great news, I know lots of people will want to participate. I myself want to do LB for my older son, as although he has no manafest learning difficulties, he has impulsion and attention difficulties (e.g teacher says "your son is on another planet most lessons staring at the ceiling").

This thread will certainly help with motivation. If I see on my travels any one asking for help for the LB programme (and I have seen a few) I know where to direct them:D .
Thanks.
Hello everyone.

I want to start this as a side thread, similar in nature to the DORE one, for people to post their experiences with specifically the Learning Breakthrough balance board program. To talk, to share, to comfort. I noticed some talk of it in DORE, but I think this is a good idea to see how the program has worked for those who've tried it.

My personal interest here being I am now a customer of the program, I've been doing the exercises for a week now.

I'll go into more detail as to things like: my own personal etiology of inattentive ADD (helpful to state no doubt), some personal miscellanea, the nature of the exercises, (hopefully) my progress, etc.

But I don't have the focus to do so right now. Soon ... soon ...

lelly88
05-23-07, 07:28 AM
I see your in the UK. Where did you get your kit from and if USA did you have to pay import duty on it? Hope you don't mind me asking, it seems cheaper from there because of exchange rate.Hello trying,

At last someone else trying the LBT-I've been on it for several weeks-its a fine act of balancing/ juggling and fitting it into your daily routine.

If you want support,give me a shout,cos i know i'll need it.

Top banana & Well done for starting this thread,really looking forward to your insights and progress.

Stay Focused.

Td

C'mon Liverpoooooool-Champions League Final tonite.

Teadrinker2005
05-23-07, 04:13 PM
Hello

Took me 6 months of shopping around roughly before i decided...contacted alot of sites that sell the product and pm'ing alot of questions too peeps on this forum about the LB.
I ended up buying from the actual LB site, wanted too purchase from its other sister USA site,as it had discount voucher advertised on it, anyhow just my luck that it had expired.
Ended up paying shiping costs + cost of the kit-N0 Dreaded import TAX.
So Yes its cheapier to do it that way,it's twice the cost from sites in good olde Blighty.Also i must mention it arrived here pretty quickly!!!and the xchange rate is great for the brits.

I did also purchase another Kit,very similiar which is aimed at Adults/Senior-same principals and working the cerebellum and x-wiring L&R parts of the noodle-BUT I did pay that nasty Import Tax on that!the kit came from canada!-Reckon its worth a butchers at it-So do a web search for Linda Schaumleffel-If you have already a balance board /beanbags you just need the exercise DVD and booklet guide.

Question-Is there anyone here working on the STNR reflexes + LB??

lelly88
05-23-07, 04:53 PM
Thanks for that, very helpful.

Crazygirl79
05-29-07, 07:47 PM
AT LAST!!!! I'm so glad to see a thread on LB, I'm still in two minds as to whether I should start it, I've looked into the website and it seems quiet good and it's cheaper too (nearly $500 in Australia which is quiet affordable)...so those who are using LB please tell me what you think of it!!

Selena:D

Teadrinker2005
05-29-07, 09:28 PM
Hello and AT LAST!!!Someone else who may take the plunge and purchase the LB kit.

Well what i think personally-Its affordable,its an interesting theory about the cerebellum,its time consuming,it can be tedious at times and can be exciting to a degree,it may help??,i feel i've had one or two minor breakthroughs in certain areas?? but sadly its early days at the moment,so i dont want too endorse it and say its the the best thing since slice bread-so for the price it maybe a good investment.Anyhow i not going to try and convience you. The way I look at it's only time and money that i could be wasting OR saving and doing something productive Or doing nothing.
And as i'm in the UK-i have little access too medication so i have no alternative but to try the LB.

Maybe check the Dore and Personal Experience thread,i pretty sure there's a link there,(just acouple of pages back) -to some other site,where some fella written a diary,well worth a look... if you cant find it i post it on this LB thread.
Also, if anyones interested....i might write up a brief outline of exercises/equipment/wot to do?Only if there's some genuine interest peeps,so let me know on that one,it will be brief.

Wot i do suggest Crazygirl,maybe you should contact the LB site,they would obviously recommend the kit regardle$$ AND i cant see wot harm an email will do,but as we are all different-this may help YOU decide whether Y/N.Lastly ask yourself - would use the LB kit twice a day(30 MINUTES) for a year(ALOT OF MINUTES) thats the question.

Td.

trying
05-29-07, 10:15 PM
Okay, well, I fell off the wagon for a few days for various reasons. Here I am though ...

This is all going to be a little spotty, and my posts will seem stilted. It's very hard for me to write. Hopefully that's something that'll improve. Hopefully soon I'll be able to read again, like I did when I was a kid. My first book on the list is this Samuel Beckett novel trio ...

I had been doing the exercises for about a week, when I began to think something was "off" with the rockers, and lo, the rockers were grinded down flat from the couple of times I had used the balance board outside, on hard sidewalk.

Man am I dumb. :) Maybe they should have a warning for that, after all it's ADD folks here using the equipment ... but in any case, I got new rockers from the company, which arrived today and I plan to start the exercises again from the beginning ...

Post continued below (in some kinda shoddy effort to promote readability, the logical separation of different ideas which typically arises naturally from the paragraph form when the writer doesn't have a DAT surplus) ...

trying
05-29-07, 10:19 PM
So I like to think I pay a lot of attention to my own mental state ... (which in the cognitive behavioral, neuroplastic sense could be good or bad, probably a reinforcer, eh?) ...

and it's funny but I seemed to notice some sort of enhancement from just a week of the practice. Um, well, I had been stuck on day one because it took me six days to set up the pendulum ball.

But an enhancement, perhaps in the direction I'm looking for ... focus, maybe a little confidence ... mental resources.

That's interesting I guess. Learning Breakthrough, see, claims an acute effect from just doing the daily exercise, which also seems to be confirmed by the guy who's doing the exercises, on the website w/ his son ... maybe someone can pull the link out for me, I guess some of you folks will know what I refer to. And beyond that, the improvements we're all trying to see with chronic, extended, 12+ month use. Personally, I'd like to be cured. Does LB delete dopamine transporter? :)

Anyway ... my hopes are still high.

trying
05-29-07, 10:25 PM
The exercises:

They are physical.

- beanbag throwing/juggling
- pendulum exercises (you hit it in certain ways, with your eyes or aiming at it w/ specified parts of a stick)
-- ball throwing (you bounce a ball at certain numbers on a target stand you set up)

I figure even if this doesn't work out for my inattentive ADD then I can always become a carny. :D

Well ... anyway. Robust improvements in concentration, etc. are claimed ... if the exercises are done twice daily, 15 minutes or so (it usually takes me more), continually for many months. I can handle that.

Perhaps. I wonder, though. With the LB program we lack mental exercises, which from the DORE thread people claim good rate of improvement from.

...

I wonder if we can duplicate some of their exercises? People have posted a few of them ... now, another idea I have is to pick up a Nintendo DS with Brain Age and Big Brain Academy ... the vaunted brain training programs that are out. They're nice as your progressive improvements are reported, graphed, by the game, and there's some research too in Japan.

Mental exercises. There are wikipedia articles to check out which tell about some of the exercises, I believe.

Now what if I did these on top of a balance board? :)

---

That's all theory for now, as I don't have the money as of now for something like that (spent it all on this, and vitamin supplements), but I hope to give further updates.

FOR NOW, it's just getting on with the exercises. I'm getting on with it tonight, two sessions then on to Day Two ...

FrazzleDazzle
05-29-07, 10:59 PM
Well hello fellow brother! I did not know you were here till just now. I will be keeping track of your humorous posts and learning how you get along on the LB program. I am very happy that you started this thread! Many, even those who never post, will be able to read how you are getting along with it, and the information will be very helpful. Keep up the good work, and, as i see, you are welcome on the D&PE thread anytime as well, so we can compare notes with each other! I am curious from the other end, how the LB works as well. They don't do the mental tasks? I thought that they did near the end as well, or something challenging along that line. :confused:

Crazygirl79
05-30-07, 12:13 AM
Hi Teadrinker!

I've read the site and it sounds good as I said before and it says it also helps with Sensory Integration Disorder as well...I'm really wanting something to treat that more so than the ADHD itself!

I've contacted the site and the people that run it already and I will make some kind of move to purchase it within the next few months, I've been looking for alternative therapies for years now, I have used Ritalin and Dexamphetamine as well as various anti-depressants on and off for years now and I haven't been on stimulant medications for 8 years (this is by choice) and I've been off anti-depressants for 12 months now (also by choice) and I don't want to revert back to conventional drug therapy as those drugs can have some really nasty side affects that are worse than the ADHD and SID themselves but if I do try an alternative therapy I want to make sure it's at least 70% helpful and I'd be happy even if the results are minor!!

I've read the Dore thread and that program's not for me! but like LB it has some benefits too.

I have a lot of time on my hands...so yes I think I could devote 30 minutes or so of my time to the exercises and I like the fact I can do them in the privacy of my home without the annoying clinic visits, I'll keep you updated about any progresses with me regarding the LB program.

Take Care
Selena:D Hello and AT LAST!!!Someone else who may take the plunge and purchase the LB kit.

Well what i think personally-Its affordable,its an interesting theory about the cerebellum,its time consuming,it can be tedious at times and can be exciting to a degree,it may help??,i feel i've had one or two minor breakthroughs in certain areas?? but sadly its early days at the moment,so i dont want too endorse it and say its the the best thing since slice bread-so for the price it maybe a good investment.Anyhow i not going to try and convience you. The way I look at it's only time and money that i could be wasting OR saving and doing something productive Or doing nothing.
And as i'm in the UK-i have little access too medication so i have no alternative but to try the LB.

Maybe check the Dore and Personal Experience thread,i pretty sure there's a link there,(just acouple of pages back) -to some other site,where some fella written a diary,well worth a look... if you cant find it i post it on this LB thread.
Also, if anyones interested....i might write up a brief outline of exercises/equipment/wot to do?Only if there's some genuine interest peeps,so let me know on that one,it will be brief.

Wot i do suggest Crazygirl,maybe you should contact the LB site,they would obviously recommend the kit regardle$$ AND i cant see wot harm an email will do,but as we are all different-this may help YOU decide whether Y/N.Lastly ask yourself - would use the LB kit twice a day(30 MINUTES) for a year(ALOT OF MINUTES) thats the question.

Td.

Crazygirl79
05-30-07, 12:28 AM
Hi again!

I've just written an email to LB asking about payment methods (I don't have a credit or debit card at the moment) and I informed them that I will be purchasing the kit in 12 to 24 weeks (I would get it sooner but I'm in between homes and jobs at the moment)

Selena:D

Teadrinker2005
05-30-07, 07:51 AM
Hello LB'ers,

I too use the balance board outside summerhouse (concrete floor),as I have no room indoors due to the clutter, SO I realised about the runners situation,so i put a rug under the board-so no damage is done.
I also force myself too do the well needed Mental stimulation DS Brain age /Brainbuilder/Back on Track prog immediately after the LB exercises,-These all help in a way.
Also i use the Listening program whilst doing the LB session or listen to mindlab focus session.

Its a bit like going back too school doing PE,Maths,Word games and more PE.Which can only be good? but the flipside is no days wasting away attempting too socialise and trying too fit in with my peers,watching telly and wandering around this planet with no purpose,which can also be good.

Here's the Dad n Son link:-

http://www.iconnectdots.com/ctd/2007/03/brain_hacks_thi.html

Know wot you mean trying about the Pendulum ball issues!!!!!-I'm off too join the Cirque du Soleil-Bring out the teadrinking clown! oh dear just broke my cup n saucer.

Crazygirl,its great that you contacted them,was concerned about SID,so i didnt want too push it,good luck with between homes and job situation- really looked forward too reading your LB experiences,if and when you do get the kit.

Td

Crazygirl79
05-30-07, 07:29 PM
Hi People.

I just got a reply from a guy named Marc from LB and I can pay it by postage which is great to hear but it will take longer but I expected that, he was really nice and helpful!

I've also contacted the Blackmores Vitamin company regarding some of it's natural therapies for ADHD (I've used their Omega 3 fish oil capsules before and they were good!) as I plan to add Gingko and Omega 3 to my ADHD treatment as well as LB

I may not be online as much as I have been due to the fact I will be looking for farm work next week (I'm doing some travelling around Australia and I'm currently in Grafton in New South Wales) but I will definitely keep you guys updated!

I'm really glad this thread up and running hey!

Take Care
Selena:)

Teadrinker2005
05-30-07, 08:31 PM
Hey CG79,

Thats a really positive attitude and its good news about trying the gingko and omega 3 supplements,I take them and I feel that they are assisting.
If you want some info regarding STNR reflexes pm me your email,if you want too- I do suggest reading about the bender crawling program-there maybe a nugget in there,that you may find??also go through the Dores thread when you get a chance-there's some interesting posts about how the dores exercises address the STNR reflexes, But there is no feedback yet whether the LB does address the reflexes-So maybe start working on the reflexes whilst waiting for the LB kit.

Good luck with the search for work and enjoy your walkabout.

Td.

FrazzleDazzle
05-30-07, 08:43 PM
Teadrinker and CG, actually, we have found out that LB does indeed NOT address any of the possible retained infant reflexes. This came from the gal that pulled together the pamphlet I sent to you. I understand that she does the reflex program first, with the children who need them matured, then goes on to the LB program from there.

Crazygirl79
05-30-07, 09:08 PM
That's something that will be throroughly looked into...don't worry!!

Selena:)

Teadrinker2005
05-30-07, 09:25 PM
Thanks 1kid2dogs-you are a gem-the crawling coming along nicely,luckily its been tipping it down ere,so them nosey 'ramsey street' neighbours aint been out peering over the fence- wondering wot i'm up too.Behind every grey cloud there's a silver lining

Td

miss ellie
06-02-07, 10:08 AM
I have just found this site and have been reading the posts with interest, I am still toying with the idea of starting the LB programme for myself before I take my son to Dore in January. I am aware that LB do not deal with the primitive reflexes which I am sure is still a problem for me. But it is deciding what is the best course of action for me. Do i wait until I can go to Dore with my son in January or could I start the LB treatment now and be so much further ahead by January.
The primitive reflexes are an issue that will have to be addressed though and the thought of doing both the LB and primitive reflesxese at the same time seems daunting to me. I already have the DVD and book from stopping ADD but as yet have not started it. Part of the problem with my organisational skills and ADHD I cannot even get a routine in my life at the moment so I can see me folding quickly if I have too much to think about and do. Any suggestions out there. Ellie XXX

Teadrinker2005
06-14-07, 09:51 AM
miss ellie,

I reckon it would be good for you too start the reflex program...seeming you've got the book and dvd...so you know what do...Yes its hard to stay motivated...I do find it tricky... i actually enjoy this exercise and i am finding it a bonus,I do feel slighty more focused and a lot less anxiety-whether this is a placebo effect i don't know? you never know unless you try it,you dont have to be organised, 15 minutes a day for a week and take it from there.

Td

miss ellie
06-14-07, 01:29 PM
Thanks TD for me it is actually starting the exercises as you say getting motivated to do it. I was so organised for Leila when she did Dore everyday twice for 18 months and here i am now wondering how I am going to fit in the reflex exercises.
My problem is I lost all my organisation skills during my degree course and with the breakdown of my coping mechanisms for the dyslexia, adhd and dyspraxia nothing is easy anymore. However maybe doing the reflexes would help to increase my abilities to cope with these. I will never know unless I try it will I. Ellie XXXX

Teadrinker2005
06-14-07, 03:09 PM
miss ellie,don't throw the towel in,go for it girl.... try reflecting on what you have achieved sofar in life...before ad/hd,dyslexia and dyspraxia so called set backs(i too have these traits,consider them a blessing)as you motivated and organised Lelia in the past and probably done so much more without realising.I reckon you've got the motivation and the abilities to do it.Good luck & don't give up trying.
Td

miss ellie
06-16-07, 09:30 AM
Well I think I have decided to give it a go, I will do the primitive reflexes first with Kieran and me and then I will start the LB treatment for myself. The money I would have spent on me doing Dore I will use for the air fares and accommodation for when Kieran goes to Dore in the New Year. Ellie XXX

Teadrinker2005
06-16-07, 09:09 PM
That's a really good start,was going to suggest maybe your daughter could be involved for assisting with the motivation.Also I did ponder about the dores centre being a bit of a journey from Guernsey to Southampton?By the way the Dores program was on breakfast news today,with a bunch of professional footballers(soccer),one who suffered with dyslexia...anyhow the whole team done the dore exercises and all of them suggested that they had improved with with co-ordination,felt sharper mentally and physically on the pitch and off-which is a postive view that working on the cerebellum theory which the LBT addresses,that improvements can be made.

Be Strong.

Td

Teadrinker2005
06-16-07, 09:54 PM
To aid the LBT prog-I'm considering purchasing the Adult literacy Fast ForWords program or brainskills program PACE-which are surpose to be benefical for working memory,reading and comprehension??..dont threat I dont believe all the hype!-but as a teenager I hardly went to school and have personal reason too edify myself in literature-so I feel these programs may assist??for the record I have contacted one website and have been quoted a reasonable price.

So, what I 'm asking has anyone else tried these programs for themselves,their kids or know anyone who has used them?As i would like some feedback on them.As I have only received success stories from several providers and of course they're going to say their products the best thing since sliced bread!

Keep searching and working on them alternative treatments everyone.

Td.

miss ellie
06-17-07, 06:05 AM
Hi TD you saw it too then about Dore I gather three other premiership teams are also going to incorporate the exercises into their teams. So whether it is Dore or LB we know it works and the message is gradually getting across.
I must admit I have not used the products you mention but have heard of them as you say hopefully there will be others who can give their opinion on them.
Actually your suggestion about Leila is very good it will really give her a buzz to know that she is helping her mum and brother through all this, as she has aleady done it. Ellie XXX

Crazygirl79
06-17-07, 10:06 PM
Hello People.

I will be moving from Grafton in 8 weeks (it's a small town in NSW in Australia) and once I settle I will make some moves towards purchasing the LB kit and I'll keep everyone updated on any progresses I make.

Also I must alert the ladies on here about the Curves Gym, I've been a member for 3 months now and I've lost 9 kilos since joining and 4 or 5 kilos before joining and strangely enough I've noticed a slight improvement with my ADHD especially in the areas of balance and coordination that's not to say I'm "cured" of being a world class klutz or anything and Curves doesn't and never has claimed to produce benefits in the improvement of ADHD symptoms!! and it's only an exercise program for women to keep fit and lose weight but I'd be interested in hearing from anyone whose a member of this Gym and I'd like to know if anyone else's noticed any improvements in their ADHD since doing the Curves workout??

Selena:)

TJake
06-21-07, 11:02 PM
Hi All, It's great to see an LB forum. I'm also planning to start the LB program within the next month. I have already ordered the program, but they had some problems during shipment so they are resending.

For the past few weeks I've spend a lot of time reading through the Dore Personal forum. There are some very inspirational stories as well as some great tips. For example, a regression period is typical at some point during the exercises... so don't get discouraged too quickly. Check out the forum, it will actually provide some motivation to keep with the LB program.

Dore is great, because the personal feedback can keep people motivated to do exercises that require a lot of discipline for an extended period. I think Dore is particularly good for kids who have a tough time with the exercises since they are usually just developing their motor skills and going thru a lot physical/mental changes and are not easy to motivate to do these unusual exercises daily

But for me LB was not a hard choice since we don't have a local Dore center, the fundamentals of both programs are very similar, Dore is 10-12x more expensive and I feel that I can be disciplined enough to stick with this(we'll see:) ). It will take some discipline to go through it since we are supposed to do it 5 days/week for 9 months - 18(?) months and the changes can take time to be noticable. There might even be periods when you regress.

But I know we can do it. Hopefully we can keep each other motivated through this forum.

Tjake

TJake
06-21-07, 11:12 PM
Crazygirl, I've never been to Curves.., but regular exercise is supposed to be one of the best things you can do to help manage ADD. I know that it helps me so much and I can feel the difference if I don't exercise for a few days. The book "Delivered from Distaction" by Hallowell also has some great tips on managing ADD.

As a side note, I recently read "ADD-Friendly way to Organize your Life" by Kathleen Nadeau. It's one of the most practical books on ADD, especially since a lack of organization is one of my main challenges.

Tjake

LBmom
06-22-07, 12:06 AM
hi there. i'm new and i must admit i've never posted a message on a forum before and this all feels very weird to me! i've been lurking for a couple of days and reading through this thread as well as some of the dore personal experiences thread. a friend has a daughter going through dore (amypaige) and she told me about these forums months ago and i'm just now checking it out!

i have 2 children...marley just turned 7 and my son preston is 4. while marley hasn't received any kind of formal diagnosis, the school did a preliminary screening for ADD a few months ago. i wasn't at all suprised when her teacher brought it up...she's always been in her own world and i've suspected she was ADD since she was 3. i did quite a bit of reading and research and came across dore and was very intrigued. it was through my reasearch on them that i came across learning breakthrough. it was around this time that it was becoming clear to me that my son was having some issues with fine and gross motor delays, as well as some social and sensory issues. with the prospect of having 2 kids that needed some kind of treatment i decided to go with the lb program due to the cost.

i don't doubt that dore is a superior program, but i'm not convinced that it's necessarily $9000 better, which is roughly the difference in cost between the lb and dore for 2 kids. my daughter has been doing lb for 12 weeks now and we've seen real progress. i probably won't be a regular poster, but i did want to let you know what it has done for marley so far.

after the first week on the program marley picked up a basketball and began dribbling. that might not sound like a big deal, but i had spent time trying to teach her how to do that a few weeks earlier and it was clear that it was beyond her abilities to coordinate her body to do it. after about 2 weeks she stopped getting notes sent home from school. she had been getting them almost daily for several months prior to that for failure to get her work done. she can do the work quickly if she can focus in on it, but has a tough time getting going. she still had a few bad days after that, but they became the exception rather than the rule. i also recently noticed that it's been a while since i've had a big explosion out of her. she is a very sweet girl most of the time, but she will sometimes have explosive behaviour (extremely defiant, hitting, slamming doors...) it has been several weeks since the last time she lost control in that way.

i can't say that we've been in perfect compliance with the program. we do it twice a day most days, but there have been a couple of days that we've missed altogether and a few more when we've only done it once. still, it is noticable to me that there has been improvement already. just watching how much better she is at the exercises now is impressive to me. her eye tracking and body control is so much better, and she can see that too.

it takes a big commitment, but i definately feel like it's a worthwhile program and would recommend it.

cindy

Teadrinker2005
06-22-07, 08:00 AM
Hello and welcome TexanJake and LBmom.

Tis good to know others are doing the LBT and going to start it soon.Keep us updated on any progress-Yes its tough like most things.
So carry on supporting each other, it can AND will be worthwhile.

TD

aussiemum
06-22-07, 09:12 PM
Hi, thank you miss ellie for telling me about this site, to the others here, I started LB with my dyspraxic daughter on the 7th of May this year, after only 5 weeks we have started to see results which is encouraging for her, now she wants to keep going. We thought about doing Dore but the travel and cost was a factor, I'm glad we went this way, it's not hard to stay focussed when the results happen, and any questions I have get answered by email within 24 hours, they have been really helpful and supportive. All the best of luck to all of you, I think we have a good thing going !

miss ellie
06-23-07, 07:59 AM
Glad to see you here Aussiemum I have started the reflex exercises for me and Kieran today. I thought we would have 100's of exercises to do when in fact we only start with two, shows I had not looked properly at all the information before from Cynthia, many of the children have their primitive reflexes still active which is the case with both Kieran and I so this is why we are doing them. Dore will automatically test for these in the initial assessment and incorporate them in their exercises but as far as we know LB doesn't. If you want to know if your two have these reflexes still active I will send you the booklet done by Cynthia which will help you test them and the exercises to treat them. You will see that there is not only me and Kieran doing LB and the reflexes together on this site. Ellie XXX

miss ellie
06-23-07, 08:11 AM
Hi Cindy
Glad you joined the forum and you are progressing well with the exercises for Marley. Amypaige I am sure would have told you already about the primitive reflexes she is a guru to us. We would love you to give us progress reports on how they develop even if it is only now and again. I ask a question is LB the same as Dore and do not start the treatment till they are 7? kieran will start Dore in January 2008 when he reaches 7.
There is no reason why Preston could not start the reflex exercises in the meantime which I am doing with Kieran if his are still active. I am sure Amypaige would have advised you. Ellie XXX

miss ellie
06-23-07, 08:44 AM
Hi everyone Kieran and I have done our first reflex exercises in between Kieran reverting to pressups and spinning, have to try and keep him focussed. I did find that turning on the spot slowly gave me a feeling of motion sickness after but i take it this is normal. We will repeat these again tonight.
As an observation Kieran has a habit of spinning any time of day he will do it till he feels dizzy, is this a quirk or is this part of his general problems which have not been diagnosed yet!!! Ellie XXX

TJake
06-24-07, 01:27 AM
LBmom, Aussiem, These success stories will really help to keep us get going on these exercises. Please keep updating us on how things are going.

TD, thanks for the welcome.

Miss Ellie, I'm also starting with the reflex exercise based on Cynthia's booket (It's based on the activity book Ready Bodies, Learning Minds by Athena Oden www.readybodies.com). The activity book recommends that the reflex exercises be used as a warm-up before doing their main activities which are similar in concept to the LB/Dore. I've started doing the reflex exercise and will probably continue them every day for 1 month and then start using a few of them as a warm-up to LB.

Anyway, it's great that we have a "quorum" for discussing LB progress. Please keep posting. I can use the encouragement and I'm sure there will be many others. I'll also try to be more involved in updating my progress as I get started.

TJake

miss ellie
06-24-07, 06:53 AM
Hi Tjake
Kieran and I started the exercises from Cynthia yesterday Kieran is used to spinning as he does itfor no reason at all but for me it was difficult. I had motion sickness afterwards but it made me realise that this is part of the problem I have developed since putting my course on hold. I actually have motion sickness all the time which is why I get headaches and feel nauseaus I know it is my vestibuler balance and eye tacking are the culprits and are at the moment out of zinc in y system. All I can say is the course has really played havoc with my system in more ways than one!!!. The exercises will eventually bring those deficits back to normal and I will start to feel better and more normal, I don't know what would have happened if I had waited till Kieran starts Dore in January, I would have been a mess by then. I have been on the site you posted and there is a couple of books I want after pay day. Ellie XXX

TJake
06-25-07, 02:56 AM
Miss Ellie, The booklet I'm using does not have any spinning exercises for inhibiting primitive reflexes. These exercises are similar to the ones in O'Dell's "Stopping ADD" book in which you start in a crawl position but instead of crawlin,g you stretch your neck & shoulders. I think we might be using different booklets.

TJake

miss ellie
06-25-07, 09:42 AM
Hi Tjake these ones do have crawling ones, but the ones I was having difficuties with and are the only ones I have managed to do so far are the warm up ones ( I must really need the treatment!!!) called "wind up soldier" and "little seal". Do you have those. Ellie XXX

TJake
06-25-07, 07:40 PM
Miss Ellie, I think we are using different books. The one I'm using starts with crawling position, but there is no crawling involved. Instead, some of them have neck stretches while in the crawling position. I went with this set of reflex exercises since I needed to them by myself (without a 2nd person helping me). The booklet I have is based on the "Ready Bodies, Learning Mind" activity book.

TJake

miss ellie
06-26-07, 02:33 PM
Hi Tjake
Ohh so we are on different booklets then I will have to ask FrazzleD whih one she sent you. Mine have those two warm up ones and then it goes on to lying on your tummy and stretching your hands and legs out (superman) exercise.
I am waiting to here from Cynthia I wrote to her about the continual motion sickness and she asked me to do to tests for her shining a torch and looking at it where the light shows on your eyes should be centered in the pupil which it was. The second was my husband spinning me on a office chair and then holding my face while he counts how long it takes for my eyes to start darting around Kierans was 10 mine was 35.
The reflex exercises should help to alleviate this hopefully and it will be lovely to feel a bit normal. Ellie XXX

LBmom
06-26-07, 05:30 PM
hi miss ellie,
i did email amy and have her send me the info on the primitive reflexes. as far as i can tell it doesn't look like those are an issue for him but i would like for him to be tested by someone with some experience in that area. i meant to ask his occupational therapist about them and see if they test for those, but i forgot to do it today...i'll have to make myself a note!

i don't have to wait until preston turns 7, but right now his motor skills are too underdeveloped...it would be overly frustrating for him. i've been trying to just encourage him to play with the beanbags a little bit and get him used to the idea. i'm hoping that the therapy he's receiving now will help him get to the point where we can start them soon...i see how far off the curve he is right now and i don't want to have to wait over 2 years to get him started on this.

Hi Cindy
Glad you joined the forum and you are progressing well with the exercises for Marley. Amypaige I am sure would have told you already about the primitive reflexes she is a guru to us. We would love you to give us progress reports on how they develop even if it is only now and again. I ask a question is LB the same as Dore and do not start the treatment till they are 7? kieran will start Dore in January 2008 when he reaches 7.
There is no reason why Preston could not start the reflex exercises in the meantime which I am doing with Kieran if his are still active. I am sure Amypaige would have advised you. Ellie XXX

miss ellie
06-26-07, 05:55 PM
hi miss ellie,
i did email amy and have her send me the info on the primitive reflexes. as far as i can tell it doesn't look like those are an issue for him but i would like for him to be tested by someone with some experience in that area. i meant to ask his occupational therapist about them and see if they test for those, but i forgot to do it today...i'll have to make myself a note!

i don't have to wait until preston turns 7, but right now his motor skills are too underdeveloped...it would be overly frustrating for him. i've been trying to just encourage him to play with the beanbags a little bit and get him used to the idea. i'm hoping that the therapy he's receiving now will help him get to the point where we can start them soon...i see how far off the curve he is right now and i don't want to have to wait over 2 years to get him started on this.
Hi Cindy I always remember when Leila started Dore there was only one other in the island locally who was also doing it and had been from the age of 5. He had dyslexia and had been on it for a year, but his progress was slow because the cerebellum had not reached its full maturity or deficite if you like. In essence they were trying to develop areas of the brain that were not ready yet, it was soon after that the limit of the age of 7 was introduced. It seems you cannot hurry the cerebellum to mature if it hasn't reached it's final capacity which is considered to be around the age of 7.
The reflex exercises can be started at any age because these should have all been surpressed by the age of three I think? Ellie XXX

aussiemum
06-28-07, 03:30 AM
Hi TJake, have you started your LB programe yet? I'd like to know how you are going. My daughter is in her 8th week and doing well, although initially she said she was getting headaches which apparently is normal as the brain is working differently, it's strange now she doesn't get the headaches I feel it's not making a difference, which is wrong but strange how we think. Good luck, it's not hard to keep motivated (so far) the results keep you going. aussiemum

TJake
06-28-07, 10:05 PM
Aussiemum, Yes, I started the LB program yesterday. I was only planning to start with LB in a few weeks, but since my schedule has been very open lately, I figured I might as well go ahead with it. I'm also doing the primitive reflex exercises. I only tested 'mild' on the reflex tests so I'm guessing that the primitives will not hold me back too much.

Even after the first set, I felt less hyper & more focused. This is very very early so maybe this is just a placebo effect but I did not see similar improvements when I started on Adderall or when I started with the reflex exercises.

I've only performed three 15-minute sessions so far (1.5 days). Yesterday & today morning I was very distracted (typical ADD ... mind wandering all over the place when it shouldn't). Since I have a business, so I typically need work on one project in the morning before doing the 1st 15-minute set. I can easily say that my focus was better both days after I did the 1st set. My mind is not wandering all over the place. My level of focus varies fron day to day, but I don't typically see a significant difference from morning to afternoon.

So far no headaches. But I'm sure that I've not had to any permanent changes in my brain wiring. I'm glad to see that you daughter is seeing major improvements. I can only say that if it works as well as it has for you and many other in the LB/Dore forums, this is truly life changing. We definitely live in exciting times.

TJake

TJake
06-28-07, 10:18 PM
Miss Ellie, I thinks Cynthia might have "prescribed" you some specific exercises for the problems you we seeing with vision, etc. The ones in my booklet have exercises & tests for STNR, ATNR & TLR (all based on the Readybodies book).




LBMom, I've been quite intrigued by this whole area of neurotherapies, so I've been reading into it. The book "Smart Moves: why learning is not all in you head" by Carla Hannaford has some interesting basics on neurotherapies (but it's not an easy read). Anyway, she cites a lot of examples of Brain Gym exercises (which are also based on the same neurotherapy concepts as LB & Dore) that are much easier for kids.

The book has a few examples of the exercise which seem very simple. So while you are waiting for the more intense LB/Dore programs for Preston, Brain Gym might help with some of the symptoms. It looks like a lot of the exercises are designed for little kids (www.braingym.org).

TJake

LBmom
06-29-07, 11:43 AM
texanjake, thanks for the info on brain gym. i must admit that i've avoided them simply because i didn't like their website and found it difficult to find the info i was looking for. i'll have to revisit them.

i don't know if anyone else here was following the story that was being run in wired magazine about caleb...a young boy with sensory processing disorder. his father is a columnist and he wrote of his progress as he went through a program at sensory learning center in boulder, co. http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2007/05/brain_hack www.sensorylearning.com

anyway, there doesn't seem to be an age limit there and i would love for preston to go but there isn't a center in texas. i've also been reading about neurofeedback and "listening" therapies...it seems like there several treatments out there that are emerging that treat the wiring issues in the brain rather than just medicating over the symptoms, which i think is very exciting. i'm already thinking of putting marley in an interactive metronome program after she's done with LB if it looks like she would benefit from additional therapy. still, i'm hoping that by this time next year she won't need it!

FrazzleDazzle
06-29-07, 11:53 AM
LBMom, I am also intrugued with the IM therapy. Here in Phoenix, there are tons of therapists and practitioners who work with all sorts of neurological issues and IM. I also found some comfort that they also use it at the Phoenix Children's Hospital to treat children will many issues as well. I did a lot of reading on it, and it does seem to hold some promise! I like it because it is a program of shorter duration too.

miss ellie
06-30-07, 12:18 PM
<TABLE id=INCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; DIRECTION: ltr" vAlign=top width="100%">"I have read the link you put up LBmum and found it very interesting I did wonder what the differences were in Dore, LB and this one. Are they all the same or is there subtle differences in the way they work. LB as we know is treating the same areas as Dore does, but does not deal with the primitive reflexes so we have to do those in conjunction with LB.

Sensory learning sounds good it is only a month and they continue to develop afterwards but the one thing that did catch my eye was a couple of comments that his father made. One was that family and friends asked if it had worked, for all those who have gone through Dore they will know that the changes a child goes through is noticeable to everyone who knows them and sometimes its friends or family which will tell you that your child has changed in a certain way.

The second was that he was having to have the input of the occupational therapist to deal with an element that the treatment was not helping. With many of our children with learning difficulties they have co-morbidity in other words they have several problems and not just the one IE dyslexia, Dyspraxia, SID, autism etc and also retained reflexes. Sensory learning is good for the SID side of a child problems as it deals with problem areas that are attributed to it, but they will have problems that still remain if they have co-morbidity. Dore deals with all their difficulties and once you have completed it there is no need for OT or any other input.

I think they have a good thing going but I wonder how far they would have helped Leila with all her problems and would Kierans problems still mean I would need Dore. My thing is where do we stop paying for treatments that deal with only a part of their co-morbidity problems when Dore does it all". Ellie XXX




</TD></TR><TR><TD id=INCREDIFOOTER width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"></TD><TD id=INCREDISOUND vAlign=bottom align=middle></TD><TD id=INCREDIANIM vAlign=bottom align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

TJake
06-30-07, 08:22 PM
Miss Ellie, I think we should take Dore statements related to LB with a grain of salt. When Dore says “we inhibit primitive reflexes & they don’t”, it’s not quite convincing since Dore is a direct competitor. If they provide more specifics (which exercises inhibit which reflexes, etc) there might be more relevance to their statements. As much as I’m very supportive of the Dore programs and feel that it is the best option for many people, most companies are inclined to make a quick statement or two to enhance their position and justify higher fees, especially if they don't have to provide any additional data to back it up.



The more I read about the basics behind these therapies, the more I’m inclined to believe that LB & Dore are fundamentally very similar and will yield similar results if people are motivated enough to follow through regularly. But Dore also provides a lot more feedback and personal touch that can help with motivation during a somewhat lengthy cycle.



Tjake

miss ellie
07-01-07, 04:10 AM
Hi Tjake Dore doesn't mention about LB and the primitive reflexes, I must admit this is the one thing about Dore that I like. They do not go into a slanging match about any of the alternative therapies. Unlike LB that mention Dore on their site and do not hide the fact that Dore does irratate them but they quote Dores reseach findings as proof that their treatment does work.
The part about the reflexes is from sources that I know have looked into the LB and Dore treatment before. A few of the girls who were deciding which one they went for have been trying to find out if LB do the reflexes but have heard nothing. I know Dore do because Leila was tested for them in her intial assessment and she was negative for them at the end.
The reflxes have to be an important consideation because they will affect the childs development in one way or another with the out come of their treatment. I am not against any of the alternatives but I am open minded enough to want to make sure that each one is the right one for that adult or child an it is covering all areas of their problems.
You are doing your reflexes as well as LB Tjake as I will, if i was going for Dore I wouldn't bother with the reflexes because I know they are incorporated into the Dore treatment. It is about being aware of what each treatment has to offer and which areas they do treat or some may well come away feeling as though they have been conned because they are still left with real poblems there at the end.

MsKat
07-01-07, 09:49 PM
Hi All,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Thank you for this site I have been searching for some help and thought it was time to post my own story to help others. My son who is six has been doing the program now for almost 10 weeks, while never being diagnosed with any learning difficulities he has always struggled. Unfortunately I was not aware you should not start the program until they reach the age of 7 as there was no mention of an age limit I could see on the Learning Breakthrough site.

After ten weeks of doing the exercises I am reluctant to stop the program as we have seen improvements in many different ways. We continue get some of the side effects previously mentioned, headaches and mood swings. Everyone’s noting of these systems has been so helpful as I at the time thought he was just telling little fibs and was getting worse.

What are some of the improvements we have seen in ten weeks, improved recall of site words and he seems to focus better. He always struggled with number recall no matter the amount of times he has seen 1-10 he could not remember and when he did they were often back the front. He is reading more fluently. His writing and the speed has improved. No more itching eyes when reading or writing. Only drops his pencil once every 20mins instead of every 5mins. Has started to play with his Lego and toys not throw them around the room.

We still have along way to go to bring him to average.He still struggles with completing any tasks such as getting dressed, brushing teeth or hair. He continues to search for words to complete sentences and as his first school report states he is a little dominant. I know he misses social cues for example over loud and not recognising personal space.

I too would love to here from others on the program who are further along as it is hard for a six year old boy to articulate the changes. My husband and I have not mentioned anything to his teacher to see if she noticed any significant changes and all that has been mentioned is better number recognition in his report.

Love Reading everyone’s posts<o:p></o:p>
Kathryn
Harrison Born 8 March 2001
Started Program 24 April 2007

TJake
07-02-07, 12:03 AM
Miss Ellie, First of all, I want to say that I’m very much a supporter of the Dore program. If it is not for them, many of us would never know about this area of neurosciences or treatments such as LB. I personally found out about this treatment through the “Driven to Distraction” book and then found LB while searching Dore.

I have also gone through just about all the Dore Personal Forum (DPF) blogs (almost 150 pages) while researching to decide if I should go with Dore or LB. Originally on DPF I saw that there was a question as to whether primitives were being treated by either Dore or LB. Apparently Cynthia mentioned that she thought that LB did not specifically treat this area but she was not sure about Dore. Then in a subsequent blog someone said that they had contacted Dore & the Dore center said that Dore treats these reflexes & LB does not. It has been a few weeks since I've read the blogs so this is as much as I can remember.


But even if Dore did not make this statement, we should make sure we provide more details to substantiate such statements. (i.e … the exercise using xxx is designed specifically treat a particular condition., etc). This brings a lot more relevance to help others make a quality decison.


The more I read on this area of neurosciences and compare the Bender therapy, Dore, LB and Brain Gym, I’m less convinced that reflex therapy is needed in addition to LB (by the way I had already started the reflex exercises, thinking that I might be missing out on something with LB). Also, from looking at the LB therapy & the booklet that comes with LB, it looks like a lot of careful thought & research has gone into it. This gives me further confidence in the program.


As I mentioned before, I think that Dore is a great option for many people. But if an adult or parent feel like they are motivated by themselves to keep with the daily exercises for a while, without outside feedback, I think LB is a good option.

I will try to post something about why separate reflex therapy might not be needed as soon as I finish this Hannaford book.

FrazzleDazzle
07-02-07, 12:25 AM
TJake, I will post the official Dore response again here, as it answers some of your questions. Some of it is beyond my total comprehension, but it does not sound like there are 'specific" things, per se, through the Dore program, it just gets all wrapped up somehow through the therapy. Thus, the Bender therapy I did with my son before doing Dore was unecessary. I'd like to know your thoughts on the statements from what you have been able to read and research on you own over there. :)

From what I have observed from Dore, is that the exercises to incorporate a lot of upper body, neck, shoulder activitites, and some crawling activites, and I gather that these must be some of the ones that help towards maturing any present. This also concurrs my chiropractor's view on them as well, is that maturity occurs through some physical activity and strengthening of these neuromuscular areas.

"Your question about primitive reflexes is an interesting one.
These reflexes are elicited from the spinal cord, brain stem and midbrain levels. As you know they tend to go away very early in infant life. Some people with damage to higher level brain systems (e.g. Cerebral Palsy) can demonstrate such reflexes much later in life.
However a most important note is that you cannot get rid of these reflexes. They are always present. However they are suppressed by the increasing integrity of the function of the higher brain systems (including the cerebellum). If these systems are not fully developed then there may be varying degrees of manifestation of such reflexes.
If any normally developed person received substantial brain damage such reflexes will no longer be fully inhibited and will manifest themselves once again at any time in life.
Thus focusing on exercises which merely counteract and oppose such reflexes is not the most appropriate way of suppressing them. Dore believes that the development of higher functional integrity of cerebellar-cerebral loop systems is the only real way to develop better higher learning systems and at the same time suppress these lower level reflexes not so much by using direct opposing movements but more naturally by developing higher systems more naturally and allowing this to suppress such reflexes indirectly.
We do measure two reflexes linked to the vestibular cerebellar systems (the Moro and ATNR).
We find that in almost every child and adult who show such reflexes that they have gone by the end of the programme.
Thus I do not see any advantage in trying to identify and suppress individual reflex actions prior to using Dore and would suggest (from our research) that Dore would be just as effective whether or not such reflexes were present at the start of Dore."

TJake
07-02-07, 02:19 AM
LBmom, I remember seeing something about the IM therapy along the way. My guess is that it is also along the same lines as the Dore/LB/Brain Gym concepts. Instead of using movement to exercise both hemispheres of the brain it is using music & exercising cognitive functions at the same time to build the new nerve pathways (just guessing).

IM is very interesting and claims to be have much quicker results. The main reason I didn't pursue it further is since it seemed to have less history.

As far as the motion/movement based therapies like LB/Dore, they seems to has been around for a while but was not widely publicized.

I think Brain Gym(also movement based) has been around even longer. Their web site is pretty basic but it's probably because they are a non-profit. The "Smart Moves" book refers to a lot of Brain Gym exercises and references some research on it. But also keep in mind that the cost is just the book that describes their exercises. It's also mainly seem to be targeted towards kids (lots of classroom activities, etc).

TJake
07-02-07, 02:41 AM
Welcome MsKat! It's great to hear about the results you are seeing.

It's interesting that you mention the age limit. I think both Dore (7yrs) and the Bender seem to have minimum age limits but I don't think there is a minimum age with LB or Brain Gym programs.

I seem to remember from on the Dore forums that the main reason for the low age limits is that the cerebellum is still developing and the kids will have a hard time sticking with the program.

I'm not sure that if there would be any harm if they started early. I would guess that there would not be any negative effects since these are mainly just movements that are repeated. But the kids might be much very frustrated since their motor skills are not as developed and have a harder time with the exercises.

it might be worth a call to the LB customer service.

miss ellie
07-02-07, 11:59 AM
Welcome MSKat lovely to see you join the forum and to know that your son is having good results from the LB treatment. I must admit that was one question I did not know about if they have to be 7 for LB like Dore. It would be interesting to find out, with Dore a 6 year old with dyslexia over here locally was 5 when he started and was still doing it at nearly 7 but it was slow and laborous. The mother eventuallt took him out of it, she felt that she had no advantage to starting him early as his cerebellem did not mature any quicker. When is your son 7 though if he is near to it then I cannot see why you do not carry on expecially if he is benefitting from it, but as Tjake said you cn always ask LB.

TJake
07-02-07, 06:06 PM
FrazzleD, Thanks for finding this email. I read into this email somewhat differently.

"…. Thus focusing on exercises which merely counteract and oppose such reflexes is not the most appropriate way of suppressing them. Dore believes that the development of higher functional integrity of cerebellar-cerebral loop systems is the only real way to develop better higher learning systems and at the same time suppress these lower level reflexes not so much by using direct opposing movements but more naturally by developing higher systems more naturally and allowing this to suppress such reflexes indirectly. …."
<!--[endif]-->

I take this section to mean that the reflex suppression exercise (i.e crawling, which has a lot of opposing movements) are not necessary. Instead, the primitive reflexes would be inhibited by defaut, if other exercises such as cross lateral movements are used to build higher systems.

Tjake

FrazzleDazzle
07-02-07, 07:57 PM
TexanJake, that is exactly how I read it too. I felt that we had done the Bender therapy unnecessarily, to put off Dore even longer. I had specifically asked the medical director about it, and I just didn't get a good answer at the time, such as this. I'm glad that they put out this statement, so as not to further add confulsing because of my crazy ways and incessant postings! :D

MsKat
07-02-07, 07:58 PM
Thanks all for your feedback, yes I agree that six may be too young for most to start but unfortunately I did not realise the cerebellum did not finish developing until 7 years of age last week yet after 9 weeks already on the program and obtaining some results I am happy to continue. Unfortunately I am not the most patient person myself and desperately do not want him to fall behind or struggle at school. I dream of having a child who can sit on a chair, walk calmly beside me and play with focus to name a few. He is already the oldest in his class and struggles with applying the basics.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

My son at least has above average co-ordination as he has always been passionate about ball sports and every kind of activity though we are only on our second set of the first exercises. I had a brief look at some of the exercises in the second set and catching two balls just terrified me. Obviously adding numbers together for a child who just started school this year will be impossible. I think I will ask him to add one to each number he hits, then two etc.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

He does get on the board without too much of a fuss I certainly expected a lot more but I do have to watch him do every exercise to ensure he tracks the ball and throws the been bag high enough. Our favourite is the bouncing ball even though I'm casing the balls around the room as he is very involved in the whole process.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

My equipment is however taking a beating, holes in beanbags, splits in number sticks (may be due to using it like a baseball bat in the free exercise period) and the ball on the string has had minor repair jobs (may also be due to being thumped regularly as it is much more interesting when it hits the roof).<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

I will also contact learning breakthrough and let you know what they say.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Kathryn mum to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Harrison</st1:place><o:p></o:p>

<st1:place w:st="on">Harrison</st1:place> 6 years old - 8 March 2001<o:p></o:p>

Started Program - 24 April 2001<o:p></o:p>

miss ellie
07-03-07, 12:10 PM
Hi Frazzle Dazzle and Tjake I also read the Dore note the same way as both of you did and I must admit it did seem to make sense, to aid the suppression of the primitive reflexes naturally instead of using opposing forces, seems logical.
Kathryn I am in full support of what you are doing if Harrison is benefitting now then his cerebellum may well be already mature, he is nearly 7 anyway. I don't think the age is an exact science some may mature earlier than 7, I think it is a guide to make sure that they give plenty of time allowed for the cerebellum to mature. Ellie XXX

TJake
07-03-07, 09:19 PM
OK Frazzle D, now that I look at it more closely, I can see how we could have the confusion from the original Dore statement.

Hopefully this will clarify things for anyone that might still be confused:

1) If higher level movements are used to build more efficient neural pathways, then there is no need to specifically inhibit the reflexes; they will be suppressed by default (per email)

2) I assume that the higher level exercises referenced are mainly related to cross lateral movements (using both sides of the body) and balancing. I think both programs work extensively in these areas to build the higher level neural pathways (cerebellar stimulation exercises, etc).

The only small area of possible concern is that crawling is also supposed to strenghten neck muscles. If these muscles are not strong enough, a person might exhibit bad posture.

So if posture is a concern, it might be worth doing some simple exercises to improve upper body posture. The reflex exercises in Cynthia's booklet and the ones in the Ready Bodies activity book are probably great for this. I bet that most exercise books will also have some ideas.

By the way, I don't think your Bender therapy was a waste of time. I bet that you will progress faster that most people if you ever choose to do Dore or LB.

The more I read, the more I'm convinced that many (probably most) ADD problems relate back to crawling (or lack of). It's interesting the Bender therapy has been around for 30 years and has been promoted as an ADD treatment (with a money back guarantee!!). It's possible that in infants, the crawling was not only removing the primitive reflexes, but they were also building the base neural pathways in the cerebellum as well as between the two brain hemisheres, due to the cross lateral movements that were utilizing both sides of the brain simultaneously.

This would explain how all the new ADD therapies also use a lot of cross lateral movements. I bet that the Bender folks have been right all along. It's just that if someone talked to me about crawling as an ADD treatment a few years ago, I would have laughed at them. But with all the new insight into this, the simple things seem so wise. Mariam Bender was way ahead of her time, it's just that not many people would listen.:D

But then again, I don't want to go back to crawling. Tossing bean bags all day and playing with a pendulum ball is more dignified.:):cool:

TJake
07-03-07, 09:48 PM
I agree with Ms Ellie that the age is not exact science in this and it's probably just a reference point to make sure that the kids will not become too frustrated with the exercises while they are still developing their motor skills.

MsKat, If the exercises are too hard, you might just repeat the simple ones in each session, instead of going through the whole program.

Also make sure you follow direction in the manual for tying the pendulum ball. The first time, I tried a short cut but I found that the ball was very hard to manage and would move all over the place once it was even slightly out of sync. It was very frustrating till I got it tied up correctly and at the correct length. This is in typical ADD fashion trying by not read directions and then getting frustrated.

miss ellie
07-04-07, 07:25 AM
Hi all agree with you Tjake about the bad posture, This will also affect their center of gravity. Dore do test for posture, Leila was ankle dominent for all her posture checks which could be because of those active primitive reflexes they should be hip dominent which helps with posture and balance giving them a natural center of gravity, these are also sorted out during their treatment.
For LB and primitive reflex exercises I would think there are exercises that would sort it out and many of Cynthias exercises will also help to rectify this.
I am beginning to realise that we are the guinea pigs for the future develoment of how to treat those with learning difficulties due to dyslexia, dypraxia, ADHD, aspergers etc where defined exercises working on cetain centers will help children and adults to overcome their difficulties permanenlty or help them to cope better. Where at the present time the onus has been on helping them to build strategies to cope with their disabilites. The problem with that is I am one who shows that they can come back to haunt you!!! Ellie XXXX

MsKat
07-04-07, 09:43 PM
Hi all, I received a prompt response today from Learning Breakthrough basically saying it was not a problem if he is 6 and to just do all the exercises he can do. They did stress it was very important to do them as precisely as possible. Not to rush and do them properly with no pressure for quantity. For the exercises he can’t do just skip and come back to as he progresses.

My sister in law minded him yesterday for a few hours as it is school holidays here in Australia and she commented on the fact that he did not scream once like usual and was sitting much stiller and quieter than she has ever seen him. It is feedback like that that gives you hope to keep on going.

Kathryn
Mum to Harrison 6 - Born 8 March 2001
Started Program 24 April 2007

miss ellie
07-05-07, 10:38 AM
That will put your mind at rest Kathie at least you can carry on with the benefit he is seeing so far and wil not have to worry about it. It is good that your sister in law is noticing the change in Harrison as well, it is so easy as parents to think are we actually seeing changes or is it wishful thinking!!! to get it from a member of the family or a friend is proof that you are not imagining it and in fact it is working, Good luck to Harrison. Ellie XXX

TJake
07-06-07, 02:35 AM
It's great that Harrison can continue with the program especially since you were seeing such great results. I bet he will get some great results even with the simpler exercises since they will be challenging for him.


Also, just to let everyone know, the improvements I saw after the first 2 days didn't seem to last. Maybe it was because I was really pumped up to get things going. Of course, I should not have expected any lasting improvments so early. I'm sure that the changes will come with time.

It's nice to see the improvements when folks write in. If everyone can update progress at least every few weeks, it will be a great encouragement for other. I will try to log any ideas or improvements as I come across them.

miss ellie
07-06-07, 04:30 AM
Tjake this is actually what I expected you have seen a quick change in an area you were unaware of which is why it was so noticeable. its the small insignificant things you will notice first but there is a lot of restructuring to come and now wonder people become disillussioned that it isn't working. The problem is they will be unaware but it is what is happening behind the scenes that is important. Keep at it and things will be noticable as they develop, that is why this forum is going to be so invaluable for those going through it. At least if they realise it is mormal it will keep them motivated. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
07-07-07, 01:42 AM
Hi MsKat, glad to see you are getting results already, it makes it easier to keep going when you see it is helping.

Just thought I'd give a quick update on my daughter, we are in the 9th week now. She is so much more outgoing, and talking non stop, her step sister who is only 10 months different in age, are getting along much better as the mental age difference is not so great anymore, she is reading road signs as we drive along, her reading at school has improved amazingly and for the first time she can now ride a bicycle (but she doesn't want to stop riding now, for tea, excercises or sleep!!) I am doing 12 weeks of the week 1-6 excercises as I didn't think she was ready for the 7-12 weeks yet, however when she finishes the 12th week, we will move on to the 7 week ones, she is so much more ready and has more of an idea what is expected of her.

miss ellie
07-07-07, 04:07 AM
Aussiemum both you and MSkat are seeing good results which is great, the simple thing of riding a bike makes so much difference, this is one area the children are always thrilled about probably because it is one thing that their friends master a lot quicker. Leila was nearly 10 before she could ride a bike and that was only because she did Dore.
You will both wonder at the end how your children ever managed before and it will become apparent how much their difficulties had been affecting them. Good luck and keep us updated. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
07-08-07, 06:34 AM
miss ellie, what made you do the LBP when you had already done Dore? Are they that different? or do Dore do more specific things. I did look into both programs but due to distance and cost I chose LBP (and am not sorry I did) however from what I read it seemed that they were both similar and that Dore was based off LBP anyway.

miss ellie
07-08-07, 09:35 AM
Hi Aussiemum Yes leila did Dore and I want Kieran to do it as well, but for me like you there was the element of cost with both of us doing it and the flights involved.
I decided that because my needs were desparate since putting degree course on hold and the problems I have been left with it may be better if I can start now on LB and when Kieran starts Dore in 2008 I will use the money it woud have cost for me to do Dore to pay for flights and accomodation for us while we are in Southampton.
I will be so much further ahead by then with LB and hopefully oganised enough to do my own with LB and Kierans exercises with Dore. My ability to orgnise or do anything constructive has dissappeared completely that is why i am so desperate to help me at the moment.
Now I have won that money on the raffle £500 I will use that to get my LB equipment, God works in mysteriuos ways, I could not have afforded it with out that win. Strange isn't it, somebody up there must feel I need to do LB. If you believe in tht sort of thing. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
07-08-07, 07:45 PM
That is fantastic miss ellie, things happen for a reason for sure, you will do well on the LB I'm sure, all the very best for you and your family.

TJake
07-10-07, 07:37 PM
Aussiemum, The progress you're seeing sounds exciting, especially that she is "much more outgoing & talking non-stop":)

As Miss Ellie, mentioned, it's stories like that keep us going. It's tough early on when you're spending 30mins a day without seeing noticable results. I think as ADD folks, we are also more prone to needing quicker results or losing interest.

Even with all the research I did on the subject, the most convincing part has been the consistent personal experiences from these exercises.

thanks for keeping us posted.

miss ellie
07-11-07, 12:48 PM
That is it Tjake you can read as much research as you like but it does not mean anything because you cannot imagine how it can be related to you and your problems. It is only as you see the changes take place that you realisewhat it does mean and how it relates to you.
Don't forget also that our comprehension of what we read and see can also be a part of our overall problems anyway and it isn't until our brains start to function normally as they should that we realsie how handicapped we had really been. This is all part of the fog as I have come to call it, you start looking and understanding the world around you instead of in a bubble. That is why I say we do not know what our true potential is!!!
I was told by a colleague at work who I had helped through her diploma so she could pass it, with my difficulties with dyslexia and yet my vast intelligence she asks what would I be capable of after the LB treatment. I thought of one thing stright away I would be able to pass my Degree for one and maybe with honours this time around, you never know!!! Ellie XXXX

TJake
07-17-07, 12:03 AM
Miss Ellie, Sorry I've been out of town for a few days.

I whole heartedly agree with you on this. I feel as if I can be truly 'on' at times and then fall flat on my face, the next moment.

Very often, I have very good grasp on a particular subject but many times I have a hard time articulating it in speech. So a lot of the potential is hidden. It's like the working memory is so small or I become so easily distracted that I lose my train of thought.

I cannot wait to see how brilliant we can be once some of these are taken care of. It's almost like I can't wait to see how easy some things will be once these issues are dealt with. This also makes me a bit impatient to see results.

I'm sure you will have no problems finishing with honors in your nursing degree. Most of us are so used to being frustrated in our day-to-day tasks but never give up. Take away some of that frustration and sky is the limit!:D

miss ellie
07-17-07, 03:30 PM
welcome back tjake I have finally ordered my LB equipment yesterday but I gather it can take up to 30 days to arrive. I can't wait and then I can get going, what makes you bet it arrives while I am on holiday just my luck but you never know it may come earlier. All I will have to do then is try and get into a routine and fit it around my totally disorganised life!!! Ellie XXX

aussiemum
07-17-07, 09:11 PM
Miss Ellie, when I ordered the LB it only took a week, they are very helpful if/when you need advice too, very fast email response considering they are on the other side of the world to me !! Good luck to you, I'm sure you'll do well. Not sure if I said this already but I tried the bean bag excercises because I wanted to know how my daughter felt, and that I'd heard from others that their head hurt after doing them, which is normal for the first few weeks apparently. I had so much trouble just balancing on the board ( I fell off more times than I'd like to think !) I give my daughter much more credit now I've done it, she is balancing on a much harder level than I did !

miss ellie
07-18-07, 09:26 AM
Ohh Aussiemum it would be a lovely surprise if it does come in week instead of a month, it is so long to wait. If it goes via england they are having postal strikes there everything is taking longer. But I will wait with anticipation.
I tried the wobble board when Leila was doing Dore and predictably I kept falling off, I have no balance at all and never have had, so I must admit I wasn't surprised. The only thing I can say is that when I can balance I know for sure that the LB is working Ellie XXX

TJake
07-18-07, 08:21 PM
Miss Ellie, That's great. Can't wait for you to get started on this. I'm sure you'll see some great improvements.

Here's a 2 month update for a father & son that we doing the LB program. I was particularly looking forward to the update since there was not much history on how long it took it adults to see noticable changes. Looks like both are already seeing benefits:

http://www.iconnectdots.com/ctd/2007/05/brain_hacks_an_.html

aussiemum
07-19-07, 11:51 PM
Thanks TJ for that link, it's good to see what's happening from an adult's perspective for your child (hence why I got myself on the board and tried it for myself) A 9 year old just can't explain in terms that make sense sometimes. To top it off, now she's having a PMT attitude one week a month, trying to get her to do anything let alone her exercises is a major issue, oh well at least I get 3 normal weeks from her !!

TJake
07-22-07, 02:17 AM
aussiemum, Getting 3 reasonable weeks out of a 9 year old sounds pretty good. I really have to discipline myself to consistently do 30 minutes every day so I can imagine how much harder it can be for children.
Just imagine, it's like disciplining ourselves to workout 30min every day for a year. It definitely is not easy especially when the changes are gradual. But I'm sure it will be worth the effort.
But it looks like you are getting close to getting to your 12th week so may be she will find the new set of exercises to be more interesting. I can see how it can be a bit boring after a while. Another option is to let her make up the exercises on the weekend or even just do 5 days a week ( I think the Dore program only does 5 days). Just having more variety might help out.

miss ellie
07-22-07, 11:34 AM
Hi Tjake and aussiemum, Dore do it every day 7 days a week 365 days a year, it does take commitment I must admit and a lot of discipline on our and the childs part to keep going. The exercises do change regularly so it helps stop the monotony. I will have to wait and see what LB regime is as I haven't got a clue. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
07-22-07, 08:42 PM
Miss Ellie, I am looking forward to hearing when you do the bouncy ball excercise, I decided it wasn't a program for my child but a weight loss excercise for me !! I was (and still do but not as bad) chasing balls around the room, I found the smallest least messiest room to do it in as I didn't have to chase and bend chase and bend, as much !! She is doing better now and is on the 25 cm mark on her wobbly board, this week is the last of these excersises then we change to the 7- 12 week ones. Then I guess the idea is to alternate between the two just changing the difficulty of the board.

MsKat
07-23-07, 12:41 AM
Hi All,

Just to give you all an update we have just completed our 13 week on the program the first week on the second series of exercises. We are both enjoying the change of exercises but the excuses prior to getting on the board are growing longer. The super ball exercises using two balls means it is twice the workout but I like others have moved him into a corner with a door behind him with keeps 80% of the balls in a small area. It would have been nice to have received 7 as 5 disappear as quick as I can replace them into a container beside him. After 13 weeks he is at level 30 on the board which he will remain on for another week or so until he becomes more stable.

Good news he received a small certificate (no biggy as they pass them out like hot cakes to the kindergarten children) but it was for improved handwriting and colouring in. Last week when I went to pick him up from after school care he was actually sitting down and colouring in... a first as he was always the one outside running around like a chicken no matter the weather.

While we have seen improvements in his school work I still yet to see any improvements with his self and impluse control.

Kathryn mother to Harrison
Harrison Born 8/3/2001
Started Program 24/4/2007

miss ellie
07-23-07, 05:02 PM
Hi Aissiemum I will reeeaally look forward to the bouncy ball exercise I must admit, didn't they used to have them on a string or am thinking about something else? I cannot imagine Leila or Kieran wanting to chase around the room for them day in day out so it will be left to me I am sure!!! Well one way of loosing weight I suppose.

Hi Kathy Harrison is doing well the areas of himself and impulse control will come as he develops further. Gaining confidence that he can do things will help to build up his belief in himself as a person and many of his impulse problems will begin to dissappear as he feels more comfortable and has more control ove his body and mind. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
07-27-07, 11:20 AM
Yes miss Ellie, they did have them on a string but don't now. We are going onto the 7 week activites starting Monday, I thought I'd give her a go with the catching two bouncy balls not expecting her to catch them, she did brilliantly ! Was imagining myself running around the room chasing 2 balls instead of just one but I might not be so worried now! Guess your program hasn't arrived yet? Am waiting to hear how you go and what you feel, keep us posted. Aussiemum xxx

miss ellie
07-27-07, 06:03 PM
Hi Aussiemum still waiting for mine got a package today and got all excited but it wasn't from LB. I am off camping over W/E so am hoping it will arrive in the next few days. Glad to hear daughter is doing well with catching 2 balls instead of one, would she have been able to do that before we ask ourselves?. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
07-31-07, 05:07 AM
Well, today was a day of laughs and giggles. We are on the 2nd day of the 7-12 week stage, you have to hit the pendulum ball with your head in a variety of ways, Chloe got the giggles and fell off at one point, when hitting the ball with her chin, then her head. It was hilarious ! At least the change in excercises seems to have got her interest again, I did the right thing doing the 1-6 weeks twice though, as she wasn't ready to move on. Here's looking forward to tomorrow's laughs !

miss ellie
08-03-07, 09:00 AM
Just popped in to say I AM STILL WAITING!!!! it's taking forever to arrive here, I will have to look and see how long ago it was I ordered the equipment, surely it is nearly a month?
I need it desparately at the moment, I am really suffering my only concern is that I will have the energy and that the initial beginning does'nt make things too worse or else I will be flat on my back!!!
Aussiemum it is lovely when they really enjoy doing an exericse makes things so much easier, until the novelty wears off. Ellie XXX

miss ellie
08-10-07, 08:49 AM
Hi Everyone just a message to say it has arrived today Horray!!!! all I need now is my husband to help me work out how to put it all together. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
08-12-07, 10:09 PM
Glad to hear it Ellie, all the best, hope you enjoy it, I'm sure you will. Good Luck

MsKat
08-13-07, 12:24 AM
Fingers crossed as well for you Ellie.

We have been using the board for sixteen weeks now and after early initial gains nothing much seems to have improved in the past six or so weeks. I'm even not 100% sure but I think we may have seen an increase in his aggresive behaviour. After five minutes on the board we start to have melt down, which consists of not tracking the ball, dropping the balls or been bags or refusing to balance on the board correctly.

I must say that it is a real battle some days just when I get so sick of it I could scream we have a good session and my will is resolved. My hat goes off to those people who have made it through.

Aussiemum have you seen any progress for Chloe

aussiemum
08-13-07, 04:16 AM
Hi MsKat, I saw results after Chloe's 6th week I think it was, she was reading better, she was speaking better, and she started riding her bike which she had never been able to do before. We are at the point at the moment though for having trouble fitting in the two sessions, people say "it's just 20 minutes twice a day" but fitting that into school, after school programs, reading, homework, dinner and some family time, it gets to be a huge juggling act, not to mention she gets very tired as her brain has to work so much harder each day than most "normal" people. Getting her up and moving in the morning seems to be harder, we were getting one exercise in before school, but at the moment she is having enough trouble getting herself ready on time, we just can't seem to fit in the 20 or even 10 minutes in the morning. It is typical of her though, as the year goes on she gets more and more tired, before the end of each term she is terrible and with tiredness comes an attitude ! which makes it even more difficult. I am hanging in there though as she can see the benifits and other people are noticing her speech, so even if it takes 2 years, we will get through this. Hang in there MsKat it is worth it I'm sure, from everyone I've read about I haven't really found any one that it hasn't made some improvements on.

miss ellie
08-13-07, 12:11 PM
Hi MSkat and Aussiemum I can understand how it must be difficult to keep to a routine twice a day day in day out. Leila on Dore had the same problem but of course we had the 6 weekly assessments which did seem to help keep us on track and motivated.

MSkat I can well imagine there are the same responces that develop with LB as it does with Dore. The weeks you are not seeing anything happening, there are things going on behind the scenes you are not aware of yet. Your child is classic of a Dore child during a pogression phase. This is where you will wonder if they are going backwards of regressing, but in fact they are heading forwards. These phases can have an effect on their behaviour, emotions and ability to undertake the exercises they cannot seem to do what they have already mastered.
I will explain it in my easy terms the brain has a fight with itself for a period of time. the brain has been used to doing a procedure one way when suddenly it is being asked to do it another using another part of the brain. This causes confusion for brain, child and parents because the brain wants to do it the old way and we are telling it to do it this way. That old part of the brain has been so used to it the wrong way it cannot see that we are actually helping it to finally be able to do it using the right part of the brain.
But once it is able to work out that it is a lot more natural way of doing it, calm will finally be restored and child has progressed on to another level of the treatment.
It is all part of their progression but many parents and children will not be aware of it. Give it time to sort it out and you will find your child will have a leap in their abilities in some areas. Hope you understand what I am trying to explain to you, just do not dispair. Even yours Aussiemum may well be in a progression phase but you are unaware of it as yet. Ellie XXX

miss ellie
08-13-07, 05:19 PM
Forgot to add another mum I know on the Dore forum defines the progression phases as clearing out the garage of all the old stuff which has accumolated in preparation for the new. Apt I think!!!! Ellie XXX

aussiemum
08-14-07, 04:00 AM
Ellie, I told my daughter that you were just starting out on LB and the first thing she asked was did you get a sore head? I will be interested to see if you do as well actually, and to describe what sort of soreness is it, she tells me it's not like a headache but goes all the way around from one temple to the other. Hope you are doing well, I am now going with the flow after reading that maybe she is in a progression phase, but have noticed she has gone up another level at reading which is good news.

miss ellie
08-15-07, 12:24 PM
Hi Aussiemum I do have problems but it is the focussing with my eyes that gives me the headache. Many of our children will have issues with the eye tracking, Dore test for this in their initial assessment but with LB you do not have tests before to highlight it. This is why you have to follow things like the ball with your eyes its all part of their process in training their eyes to focus normally.
It gives me a feeling of motion sickness and as I carry on I find that I get the headache which can go from one temple to the other or it will go around the back into my neck as well becoming a tight band.
Does she feel sometimes that she needs to close her eyes for a while after the exercise to try and get rid of the headache. I sometimes feel it is like eye strain, but to a child it may feel more like a headache.
It will pass as the brain begins to function normally again, but it can cause problems for us in the early stages as with me and probably your daughter. It would be interesting to see if the others get the same problem? Ellie XXX

aussiemum
08-15-07, 06:55 PM
Ellie, It's good that you have already gone through the Dore system, you know why things happen, I could always email LB as they have been helpful in the past but I figure it is all part of the process. Chloe just keeps going through the pain, it goes away until we change the difficulty level or change excercises. We look at it in a positive light, that if there is pain then the brain is changing, we liken it to being at a Gym, your muscles are sore after a session at gym, so should her brain !

MsKat
08-15-07, 09:07 PM
Hi Ellie and Aussie mum, I have been meaning to thank you both for such thoughtful replies. It really did help me boost to my willpower to keep on board with the program. Its always funny as bad as it was getting last week with his behaviour and outbursts this week he seems to have turned the corner into a little angel the difference is amazing though I'm even scared to put this to paper as I don't want to jinx myself.

Interesting that Chole still gets the headaches as Harrison does to. I hopped on the board for the first time myself last night to encourage him and after one set of exercises my legs were tired and I was missing the ball more than I was hitting. It has given me much more respect for him. We are into our seventeenth week on level 25 for balance and we also finds mornings before school the hardest sometimes only getting 1/2 way through the programme.

Ellie how are you going with the exercises especially the bouncy balls which proved such a challenge in my house at first but are now my favourites as it keeps me just as busy and the exercise seems to fly buy.

Look forward to hearing from you
Kathryn

Teadrinker2005
08-15-07, 09:14 PM
Yes I get the shooting temple area pain, which goes from temple too temple?
The last time i experienced it was around 30 years ago as a child-so people experience this temple headache's from the dores exercise?Any reason given by the dores specialist?Just would like too know.

Oddly i like the temple pain-its a bit like aching muscles after a workout.


TD

aussiemum
08-16-07, 12:34 AM
MsKat, we need each other to keep going sometimes. We seem to be only a few weeks apart in the program, Chloe is on her 15th week now. I forgot to say, when she was getting all the changes at the 6th week spot, she started to read the real estate section of papers ! she told me all about the houses, how many bedrooms how many bathrooms etc, she had never even looked at a newspaper before that much less wanted to look at anything other than the pictures. She has started guitar lessons a few weeks ago, she was doing so well we bought her a guitar to practice with, hoping she can fit that in as well !! Playing guitar is a repititous thing so she should do well. When I tried to stand on the board in the easiest position and throw beanbags, I had enough trouble just balancing, I fell off more than I like to admit ! Chloe is on level 25 although she finds it easier to balance without socks, but gets a bit cold when we do the pendulum ball because we have no space big enough except outside! but when you are bending down hitting it with your head or chin (which she finds immensly funny !) she needs to balance, so cold feet it is !

FrazzleDazzle
08-16-07, 12:08 PM
This headache thing, has been bugging me, and I have a thought. I know with Dore, when they do the neurological visual tracking test, they put the sensors right on the temples. There are very intricate muscles there that the sensors pick up the very sesitive movements made. If LB does a lot of the eye tracking actiities, those muscles are getting a pretty good workout, and may cause the soreness you guys are feeling?

I'm thinkng when you get a zit on your forehead, because the skin is so tight there and such, and a lot of perhaps tightly bundled nerves in the area, it's just that more sensivee and has the tendency to radiate.

Maybe???

miss ellie
08-16-07, 04:09 PM
Could well be Frazzle I am sure it is all to do with the psition of the eyes we have to do during the exercises.
TD you saying about having the temple pain 30 years ago reminded me of my childhood where I would suffer from headaches and then they dissappeared for years until I commenced my degree when they came back with a vengeance.
As children we develop the coping mechanisms to enable us to function as best we can with our learning problems. They do us well into adulthood but are never perfect. With me I lost all those coping mechanisms during the degree and have been left with the same problems I had as a child including the headaches.
My diagnosis is that the headaches are part of the process as Frazzle says, the exercises are breaking down our old problems to enable the brain to finally function normally which is why we re-develop the old pain exercising the eye muscles which had caused our problems in the first place concerning the eye tracking. What is it they say "NO pain No gain" But if anyone could find out what the experts say from LB and Dore it would be interesting to know.
Mskat I am feeling guilty at the moment having not done them for 2 days!!!! hang my head in shame. I am now uncertain whether I should be doing day 5 or go ahead to day 7. What do all of you do when you have missed a session? Ellie XXX

Teadrinker2005
08-16-07, 05:37 PM
I aint no neuro expert-so putting it down too the brain re-wiring,as L n R sides of brain hemispheres synchronizing,cerebellum motor re-stimulated,amygdala located very near the temples and the amygdala has too do with learning and stress, also using the balance board -as the inner ear is related too controling balance and obvisiously the eye tracking!!
Would love too know whats is really going on with the temple aches,from the experts.

Ellie-Do your 5 days + 2 days any choice of the exercises-somewhere in the instructions it says about missing sessions and holidays-but dont miss too many sessions,however i've missed loads someweeks-lots of guilty.

BTW-has anyone know anything about Mentat from Asian medicine?

Td.

miss ellie
08-16-07, 05:59 PM
I replied to your post TD but my link was playing up and I lost it so I will try again.
I am relieved that I am not the only one who has blips in their exercises I don't feel so guilty now.
I understood every word you said about the amygdala, cerebellum etc I THINK? I will look some of it up in my dictionary. I have never heard of Mentat from Asian Medicine what is it TD. Ellie XXX

Teadrinker2005
08-16-07, 06:43 PM
The guilt-lack of motivation= a nitemare for me.

Just one of them things i suppose-so best not panic.

In the mis treatment and approaches..i've started a thread..infact i ordered sum last week and recieved it today..was washed out by all the anxiety and attemptin too focus with a foggy brain so around 5.30 i hit the pit and snoozed...lots of focused thorts of days events-which is different for me.Got myself around 4 months worth of mentat(natural asian plants) which is given too adhd and the mentally inhibited children and adults in India.
So no bad side effects at the moment that i'm aware of and its purely experimental.

Also as its a eastern thing and hardly any profit is too made out of mentat tabs n tonic-i'll doubt it will catch on as treatment in the west.

Whilst i'm writting-have you read the edge effect book? and are you still doing the crawling exercises?

Td.

aussiemum
08-16-07, 08:13 PM
Ellie, just try and do each of the excercises, if you miss some days it doesn't matter, you have realistically got 4 sessions you can miss before missing any of the excercises. I just try and get each of the 5 different ones in during a week. I might send an email to LB and see if they can answer the temple pain thingy.

miss ellie
08-17-07, 07:44 AM
Thanks for the comfort Aussiemum I will certainly relax a little, I can get stressed sometimes and you know what its like if you miss too many you think what is the point. Would be lovely if you could find out Aussiemum what LB say about the temple pain at least then we would have an experts view.
TD I have looked up about the book you mentioned " the Edge Effect and it does look interesting so I have ordered it. My crawling exercises I have had to put on the back burner at the moment because of the constant motion sickness I was getting. I am due to see the ENT specialist next Tuesday as I have also lost my hearing in the right ear, it wasn't good anyway but what I did have was important to me. Becuase of my past history of a cholesteatoma (? sp) I feel it needs checking and I am still waiting to hear from the neurologist as well. The degree course I took has a lot to answer for!!!!

aussiemum
08-19-07, 10:25 PM
Ok, I contacted the LBP via email, and received a response within 24 hours. I will post it here, however it is a lengthy one.

The discomfort in the temporal region is likely a result of the acute eye tracking demands and inner ear feedback that the program requires of the user. Not unlike stretching before a run or gym workout, the sensory organs and brain are expending energy on the tasks at hand...and these tasks are specifically designed to challenge and increase the demands on our systems. This is not very common in my experience but certainly not rare either.

There are a rare number of individuals who become downright nauseous after a few minutes on the board or experience headaches rather quickly. Dr. Belgau tells me that it is a GOOD sign in that it means there are significant adjustments going on in the case of these individuals and that they are likely affecting processes that have been severely suppressed (or compensated for) for long periods of time. He takes these observations as indications that the program is making changes in the user’s brain processing methods and that the “calibration” effect the program is attempting to impart is beginning to take place. The nature of the program challenges a number of systems at the same time and they all build upon one another. As balance challenge is increased, all these systems are brought to higher levels of compliance with respect to the calibration objective and their “efficiency” is great improved. This is the magic objective...processing efficiency across the entire range of brain function areas!

When serious feelings of discomfort do arise, your body is telling you to stop. This is natural and you should back off until you feel better. The next step is to continue back on the activities at a slow, steady and comfortable pace, increasing gradually your stamina and involvement level.

If there is modest discomfort initially that goes away relatively quickly, the user is adapting to the overlay of sensory mapping functions and their position and movement challenges within that mapping space and the brain’s ability to adapt to the complex environment in which it has been placed. Working through these hurdles is the way the brain “learns” or retrains itself. The indication is that new neural connections are being forged and neuron transmission paths are being created and strengthened. This underlying strengthening is why we often refer to the LBP as brain weight lifting...the strengthening effect of the program is how so many functions improve and how brain reaction timing is so critically increased. The program is designed to make these types of changes occur and the activities were culled from hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing and observation to be those that are most powerful and most directly challenging. Every time you do the program you are raising the bar on your ability to reach your cognitive potential by removing the processing limitations that we all develop over time.

I do not possess a “scientific” understanding greater than that which I have described here. I can try to run this up the flagpole to some neurological specialists...but there seems to be few definitive answers when it comes to the underlying neurology in kinesiological approaches like ours. The understanding of the psychomotor-biochemical connection is being investigated by many in the science world and as the mysteries of the way the brain works slowly become exposed, we will be learning along with you about the details that underlie the program’s effectiveness.

I hope this feedback is helpful and would be pleased if you would post it for others in your forum to read.

FrazzleDazzle
08-19-07, 10:31 PM
Aussiemom, thanks for gathering and posting that response, I actually kind of understood it, and it seems to apply at least somewhat to Dore's take on things. I like the phrase "brain weighlifting!"

miss ellie
08-20-07, 09:38 AM
Thank Aissiemum Like Frazzzle I can understand what they are on about and confirms what I had believed which is good. My motion sickness I am sure is all tied in with that and hopefully once I have seen the ENT specialist tomorrow I can get the all clear for my ears and then take it slowly like he said with the primitive reflex exercises. Mind you they were the warm up one's!!! Tee Hee Ellie XXX

Teadrinker2005
08-20-07, 10:41 AM
Spot on Aussiemum-thanks for the taking the time to contract the experts and explaining the process so well.

Oddly,i like the temple headache sensation-how weird is that?...maybe cos its doin me sum good long term...will take on board about- this is the bodys way of telling you to stop and easy up...Rome wasn't built in a day.

Td

trying
08-20-07, 06:56 PM
Thanks aussiemum!

aussiemum
08-28-07, 05:27 AM
No postings for a week, just checking in on how people are going. Chloe was sick most of last week, so not many excercises done, she just wasn't up to it, but boy oh boy getting her back into a routine is more than I can handle at the moment !! It's funny, but after only a week of no excercises, she had trouble balancing on the board, strange how you lose that balance so quickly. Anyway, keep me posted, take care and all the best.

MsKat
08-28-07, 07:12 PM
Hello Aussie mum, nice to hear from you, thanks for letting me know about the results of a week off. Harrison is going on school holidays beginning of October and for a week he will be at his grandparents place and she does not want to do the exercises (cant say I blame her really) so at least I know now about the fallout now.

We have some really easy weeks with the board but last night it was bad and every time he got near to doing the exercises the performance started so off he went to bed instead straight after dinner. I'm not looking forward to this morning. I can't believe we have completed 18 weeks already feels like we only started a week ago.

I have not noticed any real progress but I think maybe these total melt downs are becoming less frequent (then again maybe i'm just getting more used to them).

Kathryn
Mum to Harrison 6

ABBM
09-05-07, 09:16 AM
Dear All,

I have been browsing in this forum for long to find out about LB. Thanks for all your posts, it really help people to hear what other moms say. My daughter is 10 years old, she has some learing difficulties and body coordination problems. Since we are leaving in Qatar even getting a proper diagnosis is difficult for such cases, there is absolutely no awareness in the schools or the public. A friend of mine sent me the info for the Dore program but since we have no way of doing that b/c of locaction and financial issues I tried to get something similar on line and ended in this forum. I received the LB package before 2 weeks and my daughter has started doing the excercise. For now the balance board is still on 50, she is able to do most of the excersise but follwing the balls by her eyes etc is still her struggle. To my surprise she is mostly struggling with the bean bags, has any of you faced this difficulty with your kids? And also I wonder if I should just adjust the balance to 45 now, how do we know that they are ready for the next level? So far, I wouldn't say that I have noticed any change in her. But for my blessing, my daughter is very cooperative and is doing her excercise every day. So far we have missed only one morning and we have managed to cover up by doing the evening excercies longer. I am open for any advice and tips you are willing to share with me.

Cheers.

Teadrinker2005
09-05-07, 01:05 PM
Hi ABBM

Good post about your daughter is doing the exercises and she is keen as shes doing them everyday-
I wouldnt change the degree of difficulty on the balance board for the timebeing,until she feels competent with the bean bag catching-we'll are drop them from time to time.

On the Dores UK site there is a computer test,it costs about a tenner or more BUT NOT MUCH-this may help you gauge your daughters LD's-it covers listening,spelling,tracking and more-the test takes about 50 minutes or so and it does allow breaks-Also once you purchase this test you keep it AND can redo the test whenever you like.This test results should show the strengths and areas that need improving.....

Good to hear from you and keep us posted on the LB prog.

TD

aussiemum
09-05-07, 07:32 PM
Hi ABBM,

Welcome, so glad she is co-operative, it makes it all so much easier. My daughter dropped the beanbags quite alot at the beginning, although bouncy balls certainly were worse ! I tend to change the feet position before I change the level of difficulty on the board, we start off on the 5 line then move to the 10, then when her balance is good we move on, we are on 25 at the moment but she has been on that for a while now, it certainly does get more difficult so it takes a bit longer to move onto the next level. I noticed most of the changes in her at about the 6 week mark, she started doing things she was never able to or wanted to before.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Aussiemum

MsKat
09-06-07, 01:51 AM
Hi ABBM, nice to have someone new on board. I after nineteen weeks we are on level 20 and have been for a few weeks. When he is ready to move up a level you can see the difference. The board barely moves and he is very free moving almost relaxed when he has mastered a level. I was worried at first as we seemed to progress to another level each week or two at first but now it seems we are never going to get past 20 as he is still wobbling around a lot. Not sure if it is just us but he still drops the ball and beansbags an awful lot or it relates to his age as he is six. We also like aussiemum saw good improvements around the 6 week mark but nothing as noticeable since then. I think tonight I will make him write his name on a piece of paper and then every few weeks do it again. I was keeping an eye on his school work but as they change paper and pencils it is very hard to compare. Might even get him to copy a sentence and time him as well without telling him or otherwise it will be a race.

Thinking
Kathryn

ABBM
09-06-07, 08:13 AM
Thanks Aussimum and Mskat, when you say level 20 do you meen on the board itself where they adjust their feet or on the roller below the board? I am still keeping the roller at 50. I am definately looking forward for any minimal postive chage since that will give us hope to continue. I confess part of the very cooperativeness for now is a big incentive (birbe) I promised on graduation from level 1 (week 1 - 6) activiies. Hope I can keep her motivated this way...

Cheers

ABBM
09-06-07, 08:19 AM
Thanks Teadrinker,

I will check the test on the Dore website, it is always good to have something tangible to assess the progress. About the bean bag, the problem is not about droping them only, she hardly could throw them up, and following with eyes, nose etc is something she is not able to do for now. So far the bouncing ball are ok with her except for the last few difficult ones. Hope to reach where you all has reached! And I will keep on seeking advice from you ladies it is a blessing to have you all.

Cheers.

trying
09-06-07, 12:21 PM
follwing the balls by her eyes etc is still her struggleTry what they mention in the book -- hold the beanbag (or have her hold it) and move it around slowly in front of her and let her follow it with her eyes. Do this for a while each time until eye tracking improves. Immediately after a minute or so of doing this I'm much better at eye tracking for the other activities. I do it on the balance board.

miss ellie
09-06-07, 04:13 PM
Welcome ABBM to the forum it is lovely to see someone else doing LB, we will love hearing how your daughter develops on the programme.
Many of our children have real problems with eye tracking if you ask her to look at an object and keep her eyes on it you may well find that her eyes will wander. It is all part of their condition. As Trying says get her to slowly follow the beanbag with her eyes, it might take her a while to master it but she will find it easier eventually. Ellie XXX

Teadrinker2005
09-06-07, 08:01 PM
Another Tip for eye tracking whilst on the balance board without a beanbag or ball is a series of exercises i have used.....theyMAY help your daughter ABBM, too improve on the eye tracking...

Draw/Trace in the air whilst standing on the balance board a big circle or a triangle or even a large heart shape with your right hand pointing finger -as you move your finger slow follow with your eyes the movement of the pointed finger.Do this clockwise than anti clockwise.
Then REPEAT it for left hand actually the same-

Then inter LINK L AND R hands and point both fingers and track the 2 fingers tracing the shape with the eyes-

Also with then track with eye drawing the chosen shape either hand but drawing the shape with both hands parallel clockwise and anti, and then with each hand mirror image clockwise and anti of the shape-

THEN REPEAT the same routine but tracking with your nose.

FINALLY do the routine again with eyes CLOSED, so you having to visualise the shape...(THINK this is a good one the eyes closed,suggest trying it yourself before instructing your daughter,as you can get a lot of wobble on the board).

btw-ABBM Td is a Fella...made me chortle when reading your post.

Finally you can chose your own shapes too trace in the air so these eye tracking exercises are unlimitted....

IF you want to know more do a google search for powerbrain fitness by Linda Schaumleffel-she sells dvds and bean bags balance boards-you already have the board-she done LB Program and has looked at the Bal-A-Vis-X (reckons this type of balance board program is very difficult and so do I-have read the book and many children with LD's have benefitted,unfortunately its a time issue with me so havent pursued Bal-A-Vis-X.

THATS WHERE THE ABOVE EXERCISES ARE FROM LINDA S, not me...

Lastly due to your location on this amazing planet-you might want investigate the BRAIN GYM exercises book-once again you can find these exercises free on the net if you search hard enuf.There is sum eye tracking involved but exercises are surpose to engage the body and mind so the child can be ready for learning.

Nehow it looks the ink is running out on this post.

FEEL free too ask for advice and if the above eye tracking exercises wasnt explained well-let me know and i'll gladly rewrite them...when i'm back from my beano to Wales.

Td-bloke

Oh yeah... watch out for the Hawthorne effect-this is where you train in sumthing you make progress then you have a set back and feel worse and then finally give up...so Stick with it.IF you want too get better wth anything do it for 15 minutes for a day for a year... then you master it.

miss ellie
09-07-07, 03:30 PM
TD you mentioned the Hawthorne affect where they progress and then seem to go backwards, this is part of the re-structuring of the brain and is normal. All those who have done or doing Dore have exactly the same affect.
I always look at it as the brain has been used to doing things the wrong way and suddenly we are telling it to do it another. This results in confusion for brain and person but once the brain realises that it is easier and more natural to do it the new way calm once more desends and the brain is now functioning on that level the correct way.
My friend called it "Clearing out the garage ready for the new" the difference is once they have got over that phase they will then have progressed onto the next level. It is difficult to say how long it will take sometimes a week or more. But if you realise that it is actually a good sign that things are working it gives you the motivation to carry on. Ellie XXX

ABBM
09-10-07, 02:45 AM
Thanks all of you. And my appologies for TD. I shouldn't have assumed this is mothers forum only, glad to know there are some wonderful fathers around doing this with their kids.

I will try all the suggestions and promise to keep you posted.

miss ellie
09-18-07, 09:22 AM
Hi All just to let you know I got a phone call from my friends daughter last night saying her mum had left home and they did not know where she was. I rang my friend on her mobile and she was sitting in a car park stewing over how she was going to solve the problem of her two children who continually fight at ages 16 and 12. She had had enough of it and walked out of the house and left them to it.
The shock tactic had the desired affect on the 12 year old who was truely sorry but the other refuses to talk to his mum at present.
I have told her she will get an early x-mas present the book " Sibling Rivalry" from L&L. "How to talk to your kids" helped me with Kieran and I am sure this one will help her with both of hers!!!. Ellie XXX

miss ellie
09-18-07, 12:03 PM
Sorry everyone put last post on wrong thread well never mind you never know you may be interested in the book mentioned if you have difficult children. Tee Hee Ellie XXX

aussiemum
09-18-07, 10:53 PM
Doesn't matter Ellie, at least somebody posted something !! It's been very quite in here lately.

MsKat
09-18-07, 11:15 PM
Hi all, we had a interesting week our runners broke and we had to wait a week for a new set. LB were great considering we are in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region w:st=Australia</ST1:pla</st1:country-region> it only took a week. Meanwhile we did the exercises as recommended on the board on the floor. They did recommend we try to use the old runners if possible but unfortunately they we unsalvageable. The new runners are slightly taller so I have moved arrison back to 25 until he regains his balance. The week was well spent focusing on eye tracking and we saw some real improvements there.
I had a chance to catch up with his teacher yesterday. I have not mentioned the programme to her as I was looking for some unbiased feedback. Unfortunately he is still having a lot of problems with his writing, he refuses. She is quite surprised as his reading is so good. We have seen real gains with his reading since beginning the programme but seem to be falling further behind with his writing, I was hoping the programme would help him transfer wait I know he knows in his head to the paper. She also has not noticed any improvement in his impulse control problems.<O:p</O:p

Surprisingly I am more determined than ever to keep up with the exercises after the feedback. It wasn't all bad news his maths is fine so I do have hope.

miss ellie
09-19-07, 01:50 PM
Thanks Aissiemum yes it has been quiete lately at least my post started some posts to develop even if it was in the wrong place!!!
MSKat do not worry about his lack of progress in some areas, it does not happen all at the same time. They have to develop in one area to allow another part to develop, it is like putting a puzzle together. If you have'nt got one piece then it is difficult to complete the next bit. It is all part of the process and each area will develop when all the right pieces are in place. Handwriting always seems to take longer along with spelling. Reading always seems to be one area which develops quicker as Leila's did and others doing Dore. Ellie XXX

MsKat
09-19-07, 07:08 PM
Thanks Miss Ellie, I appreciate your reply. After 21 weeks now on the programme I think I'm just happy we are still continuing and it gives me hope that we can help him and without that hope I would be very worried.

aussiemum
09-19-07, 07:33 PM
We are now in our 20th week, the last two weeks have been so good, last week we didn't miss any sessions, we've only managed that once before !! and that particular time was during school holidays where I find it much easier to fit them in to a whole day rather than squeeze them into a school day. So I was very proud and happy when even with school and after school activities she did every day !! This week is about the same, have missed only one session, but what's even more remarkable is that it is so easy to get her to do them, usually it's "in a minute, do I have to, later, not now, etc" but we seem to have got past that for the moment, hope it stays !! School holidays are next week, so I'm hoping for another full week of not missing any, she gets to pick a small reward at our local cheap shop, so it gives her some incouragement too.

Glad to see some postings again, was beginning to think I was the only one here for a while !!

Good luck, well done, and thanks for the support from you all.

miss ellie
09-20-07, 02:35 PM
I am pleased Aussiemum that she is keen to do them without any argument as you say it does make it so much easier. Have you asked her what changes she has noticed so far, she may surprise you. It is the little things that we are apt to miss because they seem insignificant but actually are part of the overall puzzle.
I do not know what your daughters issues are but Leila had problems with tying shoe laces, holding a knife and fork( had to use a spoon), Skipping, falling over (daily). All these were the subtle changes I noticed and had never attributed them to her difficulties.
One thing I noticed was Leila used to hod her pen funny and her writing was a scrawl, I gather dyslexics do this. Riding her bike was also a big step for her and us. All of these are important developments so think back if they have already mastered them or if not yet they will do. Ellie XXX

aussiemum
09-21-07, 02:18 AM
She can now ride her bike with confidence, we tried many times to get her to balance but it never happened (pre LBP), she can't get enough to read, even though she has trouble with some words and also somehow manages to substitute words for other words, eg: dark changes to night, helicoptor becomes plane etc, she is reading more than I've ever seen her, she has started learning guitar and doing well at that too. She has dyspraxia and needed things repeated many many times before they were committed to memory, she seems to not need quite as many repeats as before. She doesn't fall over as often or seem to be as accident prone, her sentence stucture has improved and she is talking better and more people are able to understand what she is saying now. I will ask her what she has noticed, maybe like you say, she can see changes where I haven't.

How are you going with LB Ellie? Aching head stopped now?

MsKat
09-23-07, 11:08 PM
Thanks aussiemum for the update in our house the pencil is not dropping out of his hand every 2 mins, he is not stopping mid sentence anymore searching for words and his reading is very good. We did try ice skating for a second time a few weeks ago and his balance still has along way to go, not even game to bring out the skateboard again. He has always been ok on the bike so at least we have that.

Harrison's attitude to the board has also improved in the last three weeks he is happy to get on the board, and instead of the major melt downs after being on the board for 5mins they are much smaller and less frequent.

We did miss more than a few times last week it can be very tricky fitting everything in. We find evenings on the weekend the hardest as we are relaxed and have either been out for the day or going out for the evening so the last thing my husband or I want to do. Doesn't seem to bother Harrison either way really.

School holidays is next week and I really hope to keep with the programme and hide from my father the hole we are about to put in his ceiling for the pendulum ball.

ABBM
10-04-07, 05:11 AM
Hi All,
Just to update you on how things are going in my corner. We have completed the first 6 weeks, a mile stone for us, and I can say she has really improved in doing most of the exercises. She has mastered about 90% of the pendulum ball activities, about 75% of the bouncing ball and 60% of the bean bag activities (this is a big progress from where we started). She is usually cooperative except some complains of foot pain. For the last week she is doing her balancing on 45 / 15 and she is wiggling a bit but within acceptable range. I didn’t notice any improvement in her school work or reading yet, but I am hoping that the change in the way she is performing the activities will eventually result a change in her body coordination and her school work. I am planning to keep her doing the week 1-6 activities for some more weeks before going to the next level. So far we are missing only two morning sessions in a week (the free activity days) b/c of my office timing, but we are compensating by making the evening sessions a bit longer. Cheers!

Teadrinker2005
10-04-07, 08:44 PM
Hi ya ABBM...thanks for the update...sounds like good progress your daughter is making...as she is doin the activities....ok no progress regarding the reading and schoolwork at the moment...it will take time...everyones different...i'm sure she'll shine through eventually...

Whilst readin your post...i cudn't help but relate too the foot pain...i get it alot of foot pain from the board...does anyone else ?

Also does your daughter suffa from fallen arches? does she walk on her toes?

Hope you dont mind me asking...as I just have an unlogical theory about fallen arches...which seem logical too me...which sort of explains...that somebodies are hindered...cos the brain and body is compensating all the time for the fallen arches...hence the brain becomes stressed and then unfocused... and possibly causing attentional issues-thats just a theory-i aint no xpert...was only relating too the foot pain and wanted too know if any other LB users get major foot ache from the board??

To all the LB users keep us all posted on progress...n the lows...Take care and as Scott from the dvd says have fun...

TD

aussiemum
10-06-07, 04:04 AM
Hi Teadrinker,

Although it is my daughter doing the LBP, I tried some of her excercises and found that I got foot pain too, my daughter has never complained of it though.

aussiemum
10-07-07, 10:26 PM
Can people please give me their thoughts on whether it is a good thing or bad thing that when Chloe is doing her exercises she often talks about something completely opposite to what she is doing although she is doing her exercises correctly her mind wanders as well, is this a good mental exercise? or should I get her to concentrate on the job at hand? After all Scott does say to have fun ! Guess it makes it interesting for her, and it's often the only time we get to spend one on one time together.

Teadrinker2005
10-08-07, 07:21 AM
Hi Aussiemum,

I think it can only be a good thing-she's talking,she's participating in the LB activity,she's havin fun and expressing herself-also its 1-2-1 quality time with you-this can only be good for her self-esteem and developing language skills...maybe have sum music/story/nursery ryhmes in the back ground she enjoys so you can sing along and maybe word/flash cards for learning..for additional mental stimulation-just a thort.

If she was quite and introverted...that wud be a concern so have fun cos the whole point of the LB is too develope the cerebellum and get the 2 halfs of the brain balanced.

Ta for info about the foot pain...have narrowed my stance on the board,which helps...so its less of a distraction...and also i do sum calf stretch as a warm up and towel under foot stetch too alleviate the pain.

Best regards
Td

MsKat
10-09-07, 12:20 AM
Hi All,

I also wonder about talking. I discourage as I really want him to focus on the exercises while he is doing and improve his concentration on one thing at a time. I treat it a bit like meditating and always remind him to focus on the pendulum ball which is when we tend to get most. After 24 weeks he now does not talk very often and this is from a boy who generally does not stop talking.

Going well
K

ABBM
10-09-07, 02:27 AM
Hi Teadrinker, do you mean if she can walk on her toes? Yes she can stand on her toes and take few steps. She is flat footed, maybe that could be the cause of the pain. Can you give me some details of this condition you are talking about, thus I can check her out.

ABBM
10-09-07, 02:33 AM
Aussimum, about the talking, I think we should try to make them concentrate on the job at hand, that will teach them to focus on what they are doing instead of wondering of million things at the same time. You can make few minutes before and after the excercise to give her chance to talk to you.

MsKat
10-09-07, 03:47 AM
Good news, it is school holidays here for two weeks in Australia and this time every year Harrison has intensive swimming lesions for the duration. This year he is so much better, he really listened to the teacher I could see the difference straight away. After the lesion the teacher moved him up a level and commented on the improvement in his behaviour. Last year he did not listen and bobbed up down continually in the water when not his turn.

This is his third year and we saw no improvement in his behaviour last year, in fact if anything it got worse. This year he seemed to not only be capable of listening but followed through on the instructions it was a real moment of success for us. To be fair we have also increased the discipline and added Native Remedies to his regime.

Fingers crossed that this is only the beginning of some real improvements because the feelings of joy from this small victory certainly make the process worthwhile.

Hopeful

aussiemum
10-09-07, 07:13 AM
That's great news MsK, great to see some positive improvement, every little thing helps. Each time someone says to me, "Chloe's getting better", I like to think that it's the LBP, not just because she is getting older. I'm sure that as they get older their coping mechanisims kick in and some of what I see is just her adjusting to her problems, not necessarily LBP, however, on saying that I'm fairly sure that without LB she wouldn't be moving ahead as fast or as easily.

MsKat
10-10-07, 12:08 AM
Thanks Aussiemum I also like to think it is LBP. Just a general question how long do you intend to keep going with the programme. They really don't give set time frames only general recommendations. I have noticed with dore it is quite common to be on the programme for 18 months. I was intending to do a full year and am very excited as we are coming up to 26 weeks mark shortly which is half way...

Thinking of having a small halfway party myself
K

aussiemum
10-10-07, 04:37 AM
I'm thinking along the lines of probably 18 months, as we've missed a few sessions, I figure the more you miss the more past 12 months you need to go. We are at the 22 week, so in a few more weeks I'll join you in the halfway party !! Guess I'll evaluate how she is doing at 12 months, but I'd say it will be longer, can't hurt I figure !

MsKat
10-10-07, 08:31 PM
You are dedicated, what do you term as missing a few? I would say we miss on average two sessions per week. I will mail LBP and ask as well, I have a list of a few question

1) how long do you recommend for a six year old and will you see more benefits by continuing after a year?
2) are there problems with talking while doing the exercises or should it be discourage
3) how many lesions is it ok to miss a week before it begins to effect the quality of the programme?
4) Will the programme work if too many lesions are missed by extending the duration of the programme?
4) it is mentioned that it is effective to use again and again for example during exam periods but does not mention how long for or how often?

I will let you know the answers when I get a response

Kathryn

aussiemum
10-11-07, 01:39 AM
I'm not as dedicated as I seem !! If we get a full week in it's a miracle, we've had only 2 of them in 22 weeks, we have missed as many as 7 sessions one week but more usually 2 or 3.

I'll be interested to hear the answers to those questions, let me know what they say.

miss ellie
10-11-07, 03:58 AM
In the question about talking while doing the exercises they really should concentrate on the exercises and not talk. The Dore children as well as LB's have problems with concentrating on more than one thing at a time IE if you ask them to stand on one leg reciting the alphabet they will either fall over or they cannot remember the alphabet.
Dore commence mental tasks once their balnce systems have been tuned but I do not know about LB.
Talking will mean they are not concentrating fully on the exercises and it can mean their finishing will take longer. You can play music in the background if you like but they do need all their enegy and concentation centered on their exercises. Ellie XXX

MsKat
10-11-07, 06:52 PM
Hi All, I have received some great answers to my questions from Marc at LB below is his response.


Dear Kathryn:

Thank you for the for your support and I am fine with your posting the following answers.


1. The program is designed for continuous application of between 9 and 12 months so that the benefits become long-standing (or what some people call “permanent”). The original estimates we published were for between 6 months and 15 months but I have taken to describing the range as 9 to 12 months. The reason for the range is that every individual is unique in the results they attain and there is no hard and fast rule. The estimates come from observed results over the past 30 years and are a basic guideline that we use as a rule of thumb.

The point is that this is the period of time that we have observed as the average requirement of users to achieve the neurological gainsand pathway retention that allows for long term benefits to remain indefinitely. This depends a great deal on the type of challenge being addressed as many human performance issues are beyond the scope of direct and easily measurable “hard” answers with respect to end points. Remember, not everyone gets into this program for the ADHD reasons that may have motivated you. Some Dyslexia and reading or motor skills clients get tremendous results (often time faster) than ADHD clients. There can be many intervening effects that impact ADHD-like symptoms. The 12 month figure is one that has been observed over and over in clinical settings and the one we use as a clear benchmark.

As for continuing beyond a year....there is certainly no down side. These types of activities are generally valuable as neuro stimulation goes. What we see is that the majority of expected gains are thoroughly received within the first year.


2. Talking while doing the activities is not the best idea. It is not a matter of being absolutely silent, but the idea is to focus on the trajectory of the movement of the equipment pieces, track along without distraction and to try to get into a “rhythm” while doing the activities. Precision and refinement are better achieved without interruptions. The user is sequencing and mapping patterns through each repetition and working to improve the accuracy of each cycle (of a pendulum ball, toss back or bean bag toss) and staying focused very acutely helps the brain “learn”, refine and calibrate pathways.


3. There is no magic number of sessions that one can miss and still have a similar outcome. These are general principles to be applied over a substantial amount of time. Slow and steady wins the race. If you miss a session, just do your bet to get back on the schedule that works for you. Some people do activities only once a day and have tremendous results. Others do twice daily routines for months and still do not get the types of results they had hoped for. This whole area is very subject to the mysteries of each user’s individual processing reactions and does not always generate uniform results. Like learning to play the piano, the more you do the better the results in the fastest time frame.

4. Similar to the answer to question 3, I am not certain that adding to the length of the program will “offset” individual sessions that were missed. It is not quite like taking a makeup class for a piano lesson. Generally, people are going to see results way before the end of the first 4 months anyway and they will be motivated to continue. There is often a leveling off of “dramatic” gains (hopefully they do continue) in which case we always tell people to stick with the program to consolidate the gains that they have attained. When the average person has completed a year, they are likely to go down the road with all the gains they have made still in place years later. This is an observation, not a guarantee mind you.

5. Some people that have completed the program years ago, come back to it to “tune up” or “refresh” themselves before big events or in advance of a test or just to get a “boost”. There is no rule here nor I do know how to account for the effectiveness of the approach. I do however know that people report this as being helpful to them.

I hope this is helpful and would be happy to answer any additional questions you might have. I do get the opportunity to read the forum occasionally, along with others, and am quite happy to be able to answer your questions.

Regards, Marc
--
Contact information removed

aussiemum
10-11-07, 08:24 PM
Thanks Kat for finding out that information, Marc is always very helpful and gives much more than one line answers. I guess he is saying that 12 months is the most we need to do. I am now concentrating on trying to keep Chloe focussed more. She has gone up another level at reading too now ! yippeeee

MsKat
10-11-07, 08:50 PM
I agree Marc is very good, great news about Chloe and her reading, that is were we too have also seen the biggest improvement.

I was thinking after reading Marc's post that we may just reacess once he reaches 12 months as Harrison is still on the young .

MsKat
10-19-07, 02:10 AM
It has been very quiet on the forum so I was just reading through some or my old posts. It has been very helpful for me to see how far we have come so I thought I would post an update. After 25 weeks on the programme we have moved the rockers to 15 and will start at the beginning of the programme again next week. We completed 13 weeks on the second set of exercise.

The posts helped me realise how far we have come this year, no more headaches, no eye rubbing, no temper tantrums after 5 mins on the board its just something that has to be done. We have had our second great week and because it is his first back after holidays it is more noticeable. No outburst, tantrums or melt downs, sometimes I can feel myself holding my breath waiting for it but nothing. The issue or event that used to cause the outburst does not even rate a mention.

Would love to know how everyone else is going, where you are up to, what gains or setbacks you may have noticed. On Tuesday it will be 26 weeks how time fly’s.

aussiemum
10-19-07, 04:44 AM
Congratulations for Tuesday, what a milestone !! We have just moved the rockers to 20, it seems such a long way since 50 and them still not being able to balance on the board ! Next week we make a decision about which exercises to go to, she still has trouble getting the pendulum ball to go exactly where it is supposed to, do you find that with Harrison?

We are two weeks behind you, but I agree, there are less tempers with the other family members. We go through stages of having trouble getting her to do the exercises and other times she happy to, guess that's all part of her brain doing things and thinking things it hasn't had much opportunity to do before.

I'm glad for you and Harrison that the program has worked, it gives them the best chances for a "normal" life ahead.

MsKat
10-21-07, 08:19 PM
Thanks for that, yes we do have a lot of trouble as well, we haven't even reached the stage that I worry about were it is going too much as I still battle with him to keep his eyes on the ball. He also struggles with not thumping it with all his might. After the next six weeks on the first series I will then focus more on ball placement. The improvements we have been getting with technique are very small but they do happen slowly.

I made the decision during school holidays to get more pushy myself. He now calls me bossy mummy as I push everything from eye tracking, reading speed, writing quality and manners. Its all taking a bit of work and effort but really seems to be working for now.

On Friday when I went to pick him up from after school care he had had a major melt down and everyone was commenting on how out of control he had been. I was in fact happy because before when he had them everyone just expected them and did not comment now because he is so much better everyone commented that it was not like him. He was also over it by the time I arrived.

Aussiemum, I noticed on you signature you started LBP on 5 March 2007 is that right or should it be 5 May??

aussiemum
10-22-07, 12:45 AM
Goodness maybe I need to do the exercises to improve my brain !! You are right, it is May we started :o Now I will have to change that ! Thank you. It is good his meltdowns are being noticed, thankfully in your case it's a good thing. We are getting less temper tantrums, but her hormones are kicking in too now, so never quite know whether it's a hormone pmt problem or just her doing her thing ! Think we will start on the 1-6 week sessions again and I'll be more conscious of her tracking. Cheers for tomorrow's half way mark !

aussiemum
10-23-07, 08:49 PM
Well on Monday we started weeks 1-6 on rocker level 20. I am really focussing on getting her to track the ball and concentrate. She woke up with a brain ache on Tuesday morning, so guess we triggered something in her brain again ! That's a good thing. It seems to be harder to get enough time in the mornings to get them done though, as the end of the year approaches, she is getting more tired and harder to get moving in the mornings, I will try harder to get a rocket under her tomorrow !

MsKat
10-24-07, 12:08 AM
Eye tracking is the bane of my life. During school holidays my 9 year old nephew was around and he did the exercises as well as did not want to miss out. He was able to track much better and within two weeks he was down to 30 on the board and was tracking really well, still dropping the bags and balls a lot but was improving rapidly. I wonder if it so hard for Harrison because of his age or because he does have problems. Let me know how successful Chole is with the tracking. I have found Harrison struggles keeping his eyes on the bags when they are below his eye level and have to constantly remind him.

Good luck with the rocket, maybe you too can earn the title of bossy mum.

aussiemum
11-01-07, 11:48 PM
Ok, update on the tracking you asked me for... Chloe does need to be reminded ALL the time on tracking below eye level, her eyes go up quite well, come down quite well until level then stops, it is the same with the "string on the nose" sections too, the string just doesn't seem to pull her nose to the ground !! We are on level 20 on the board, there are some days she has trouble balancing, but it is usually when she is tired. It is coming up to the end of the year and she traditionally gets more tired then.

MsKat
11-04-07, 06:23 PM
Congratulations six months completed. From my readings on the Dore thread it seems that they will still make gains but it will be much slower and less noticeable now. That's amazing that Chloe has exactly the same issues as Harrison. I have really been pushing the eye tracking and he now can keep track of the bean bag about 25% of the time and 75% of the time on the string.

We are on 15 on the board and have been for apx four weeks and I don't see that changing very soon as he has really struggled with the 20-15 leap. I also have not enrolled him this year in any after school activities or sports. Given it was his first year at school, after school care each day and LBP I thought he had enough on his plate.

Next year I would like him to do nippers and will hold off on the music lesions until after LBP is completed which will be another 6-8 months.

aussiemum
11-05-07, 07:21 PM
We are on level 20 and I don't see us changing that for a while, there are days when she really struggles to balance, I usually move her feet before I change levels. But it's amazing how far we've come from when she kept falling off the board at 50 !! (so did I, I must admit !!)

ABBM
11-14-07, 04:17 AM
Hi,

I am a happy mom. Yesterday I met with my daughter's teacher and I am so happy to report that the teacher didn't have any complaints on my daughter's performance unlike other years. The teacher is new and does not know of her pervious issues and couldn't even see the reason for my concerns and questions. She was happy with both her behavior and performance. She noted that she is a bit slow, and have problem of concentrating when she is upset, other than that she seem to be coping well. And this I hope is the begining of the progress she is making. Though part of the reason for her progress could be that she is maturing plus the extensive reading tutoring she had during her summer vaccation, I aslo think that the LBP has contributed to her focusing. Today I am a happy mom, and I am motivated to keep on doing the LB as long as we can.

MsKat
11-14-07, 07:35 PM
Hi Happy Mum,

Such good news, I too long for that day. It seems for us we had three weeks at school without any issues but the last two have been particularly bad. It is getting to the point I just want to hide from the teachers and I hope it is just another stage or development.

Oh well only another 5 weeks to go before summer vacation for us and a new teacher. He always makes some good leaps during this time.

Theres nothing like that happy parent feeling is there. Pat on the back to you for putting in so much effort as well I say.

Kathryn

aussiemum
11-14-07, 07:43 PM
Congratulations ABBM, It's great when you get positive feedback like that makes it all worthwhile. Keep up the good work.

MsKat
11-22-07, 12:15 AM
I just thought I would say hi, and let you know we are still battling on. We are concentrating on eye tracking and have seen some small gains maybe an increase to 30% of eyes on the bags but with a lot of reminding. I have also noticed that his balance is worse during the pendulum ball exercises but his tracking is much better about 80%. The balls have to be my favourite as they are so easy, his eyes are always on the ball and the board does not move very much at all. Next week we will be back on series two of the exercises which I’m not really looking forward to as they are more involved and take longer.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

I have also moved the bean bag exercises to the weekends and we always do this day twice (Sat & Sun). We have more time and I can give it my full focus. Still at 15 on the board.<o:p></o:p>

I have now added a 250 magnesium supplement to his vitamins list and we have had a really settled week. Will try and touch base with his teacher shortly and see if we get a few improved comments without mentioning anything so fingers crossed.<o:p></o:p>

Would love to hear how others are going.

ABBM
11-22-07, 06:54 AM
MsKat,

Thanks for mentioning this. I was thinking to say something about the vitamins but somehow it slips my mind every time I post here. My daughter is taking Omega 3 and and multivitamins which was recommended by a doctor about 2 years ago. I would not say I have seen much improvement on her as a result of the vitamins but may be they are helping her out gradually. What is the magnisium supplement for? Is there any other vitamins any of you recommend? Did you get the recommendations from doctors? Specific foods/fruits that are recommended etc. May be we should all share our experience on this subject.

Back to LB the eye focusing is a challenge for us too. Specially with the bean bag, and the board also moves much on the bean bag day. The pendulum ball is ok when it comes to focusing of eyes, but she complains a lot that her hands are paining her fingers when we use the colored stick and the board moves a lot during this exercise. Hiting the ball with green color (1&8) is very challanging for her.

We have been on the week 1-6 level for about 11 weeks now. I would not say she is perfect in all of them but she really has shown a lot of progress. So I am planning to go to the next level of exercices soon.

Looking forward to hear from all of you.

MsKat
11-22-07, 05:42 PM
Hi ABBM,
<O:p</O:p

The vitamin thing is a bit of a mystery I do it all myself through trial and error and a lot of reading of other ADD sites. ffice is taking Eye Q & Nordic Cod Liver oil in the mornings and then Effalex at night. I am so confused as too which he should take I have all three to cover my bases. He then takes USanimals multi twice a day, one that I order on line and again is quiet expensive but I am hoping for better quality by paying more. The magnesium supplement is GNC 250 and he takes it once in the morning and then once a week I give him an Epson & bi-carb bath for 30-40mins. A lot of others seem to be using Kirkmans in the US so was going to look into next time, but unfortunately is all a bit of hit and miss for me.<O:p</O:p

Harrison has been on failsafe diet for three years and we avoid all diary, chocolate, flavours & preservatives or we get a very angry man.<O:p</O:p

All by trial and no expert<O:p</O:p

aussiemum
11-22-07, 07:25 PM
Not much of interest to report this end, we are really trying to get in 2 exercises a day but find it difficult to do it before school as she is getting more and more tired as the year gets on, I am looking forward to holidays which are only a few weeks away and we can have more time to fit exercises in during the day.

Her eye tracking is improving but still have to remind her (but not as often), we are still on level 20 but she is much more stable, I am thinking about moving her feet to 10 and see how she goes before pushing her up to 15, it's a long way from wobbling right off the board at 50 though.

I am also waiting to see what her end of year report brings, so I can compare it to her half year one.

MsKat
11-23-07, 12:02 AM
Hi Ausie mum, I thought 10 was easier than 5 or are you from 15 going to 10. I've never been quite sure with that one.

Thanks in advance
K

aussiemum
11-23-07, 02:33 AM
MsKat, she always seemed to have more trouble balancing on 10 than 5 so I work from 5 up to 10, she is not big enough to be at 15 her feet would be further out than her shoulders which they say not to do, so we don't do the 15 line. Not sure if I'm doing it right but I guess the idea is to balance better and be able to move to more difficult levels, however you acheive that I suppose really doesn't matter.

ABBM
11-25-07, 02:29 AM
Mskat,

We have also done the no diary, no wheat thing before, surely it didn't bring much change in her so we stopped being so strict about it. Wow the list of vitamins are too complicated for me.

About the balance actually 10 is more difficult than 5. The maximum you can put the feet apart is at the equal level of the shoulders. And as aussimum said since they are small children they can not get any further than 10. Acutally I am usually keeping her at line five i.e the inside of her foot will be on line 5. She is actually still on 40, but will move to 35 soon. What about you, how often do you change? I am changing the balance about every 4-5 weeks.

MsKat
11-25-07, 05:51 PM
Hi All,

Yes I think I was back the front. I now keep Harrison's feet on 10 as when I moved his feet to five he never wanted to move back to 10. I have just moved Harrison's rockers to mid way between 15 & 10 to see how he copes. We have been on 15 now for apx 7 weeks and seemed to reach a point were though the board tends to move a lot more and he has to work much harder to stay balanced it was rarely hitting the floor. I'm not really sure if this is the correct thing to do but thought I would give it a go and if it proved too hard I'm happy to move him back down. Its at times like these I long for someone who is further ahead on the programme to give me some guidance.

ABBM I found Harrison moved every 2-3 weeks when we first started on the board from 50-25. It has certainly slowed since then as we are down to half moves every 8 weeks. We are still focussing on looking just like Eric who certainly makes it look very easy. Harrison said yesterday he is never going to be able to do it as well as Eric but I push every set for technique and have hope after a year we will be close as I always see small improvements. Yesterday for example we tired to keep pace with Eric and focus on the bag when it was being passed from hand to hand, something six weeks ago would of been impossible for him to master.

Aussie Mum, ABBM do you have to nag, remind be a drill sargent during the exercises?

aussiemum
11-26-07, 02:42 AM
Yes MsKat, depending on her mood I get away with it, usually once we are started it's not too bad, but there are many times, that just getting her set up takes an immense amount of mental strength!! I wish she would take some initiative and do some without me reminding her every day or come to me and say, "can we do exercises now mum" but it never happens, that's kids for you I guess, the other kids don't come and say "I'll do the dishes for you" !! guess it's kinda the same thing.

While I'm here, does anyone else's child subsitute words while reading? for example the word in the book might be night and she'll read it as dark, or thin which she will say is skinny or plane which becomes helicopter. All the words mean the same thing but don't even start with the same sound, I have never heard of any other child doing this, was wondering if it was a dypraxia issue.

Take care all, keep up the good work

ABBM
11-26-07, 07:13 AM
Mskat: I wouldn’t even imagine that she would do the exercise by herself. Well I have to sit and make sure that she tries her best to do every activity as per the instruction, if not she will forget the eyes etc. So, yes I nag her a lot. There is no other way for me. I think I should try to move the balance more often at least now she seems to be ok with 40 so next week I will put her on 35.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

Aussimum: My daughter does the swapping of words very rarely. When she already knows how the story is going, she is lazy to read so she guesses the next word/phrase. I guess once reading is not much of a struggle for them, they won’t have to do it. I have seen a huge improvement in her reading, both in speed and accuracy, the other day she read a 9 page story without almost making any mistake in the reading, and she lost the line (which line she was) very few times, and the reading speed was much better than before.

Cheers.

aussiemum
11-26-07, 07:19 PM
I too have seen the most improvement in her reading, she often swaps words when it is a new book though, still very strange ! Her balance has of course improved too, I can't wait for the school holidays and try her on the kneeboard and waterskis, I'm sure she'll master it this year, she couldn't ride her bike until we started LB and as it's been cold haven't had a chance to get her on the water but I'm sure her balance will help her greatly.

MsKat
11-26-07, 07:23 PM
Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Aussie mum we don't swap more along the lines of being lazy. He leaves words out of sentences or sometimes changes the little words eg said instead of shouted. He is just starting to self correct now if he has left words out and it does not make sense so at least I know his comprehending the story he is reading now.

Harrison's reading is good for his age, his pencil skills colouring & neatness have really improved. But he is still very immature for his age, has impluse control problems and his spelling is very bad. Fingers crossed that we will see improvements with these over the next six months.

MsKat
12-17-07, 07:11 PM
Hi All,

Its been a long time since anyone has posted so I thought I would say hello and wish the learning breakthrough families a merry christmas (if you are still out there). How did the school reports go? Harrison is keeping up with his reading & maths but needs to work on his writing, listening and a long way to go with impulse control so no surprises at all really. After 8 months on the programme I was hoping for perfection but oh well looks like we have another 7 months to go of LBP before we see the maximum benefits. Its times like these that it would be nice to be on dore and have a little bit of feedback though I dont regrett the cost savings.

Looking on the good side he is doing well for a little boy who hates sitting still, colouring and holding a pen and if school measured passion for life, ability to make friends and talk all day along with sports participation then it would be a whole different report.

We are going well with the programme and rarely miss a turn and the board is now on 10. The move from 15-10 was much easier than the 20-15 move for us. He continues to improve technique and just as I think I don't have to watch and can do something else while he does the exercises he cheats if I don't.

Looking forward to the 5 weeks holidays over Christmas. We are going away in a tent for two weeks to a caravan park and I'm not sure I will be able to do or want to do the exercises.... but I certainly don't want to loose any of the gains. I see this time as a period to catch up on his writing and prepare for next year as his marks would have certainly been a lot worse without the extra effort.

Have a great Christmas
Kathryn

aussiemum
12-18-07, 05:43 PM
Thanks Kathryn, hope you and your family have a lovely Christmas break and all the best for next year.

We have been missing way too many sessions lately, I gave her the day off yesterday as she is getting more and more tired no matter how early I get her to bed. We actually got 2 sessions in yesterday though ! makes a change lately for us. I too and waiting for the 5 weeks off, it will give us more time for her to catch up on sleep and also should be no excuses for not doing 2 sessions a day. I'm hoping that there will be some major improvement by the time she goes back to school.

Her report was fairly good, I like the reports of our day though as they told us much more, her report has the year in gray then spots on (or off) the gray if she is behind or above the year level. Hers were all on the good side of the year except for two, those being writing and maths, but even those were not outside of the gray (hope that makes sense !) She's come a long way though as reading was her weakest point along with writing and maths, it's good to see her up there with the other kids.

Hope you all have a lovely Christmas, at least it's looking like being cool her so we can enjoy Christmas dinner ! Nothing worse than a roast dinner at 40 degrees celcius !

All the best for the coming year and what it will bring for our special children.

MsKat
12-18-07, 08:35 PM
Hi Aussiemum,

Nice to hear from you, I so agree you with you about reports when it comes down to fact I have no idea were Harrison sits in the class and how behined he is as I have nothing to compare him too. We dont even get the grey shading, is the not quite up to were he should be OK or is he last in the class and needs lots of help. I work full time making it really hard for me to catch up with his teacher who does not appear to incourage parents questions.

Oh well as long as we are all trying our best and doing the extra work at home I will have to relax and accept thats as good as he can be and be happy.

ABBM
01-14-08, 08:55 AM
Hi all,
Happy new year! We have the 1st semester repor here also. They have a grading system of A B C etc and also the level like, below level, intermidiat and advanced. My daughter got an intermdiate level for all the subjects which means she is average student on her level and her grades are ok mostly. But as for me, I am not observing much change after the initial gain. Specially in her comprhension and math problem solving, I still find her below expectation. Any way we are on our 18th week now, she is balancing on 30. Hope we will have another break through soon, so to keep us going.

Mskat as you said sometimes I wish I could do Dore thus I can get a tangible feed back. I confess that this is very difficult to follow through for long time. I think many of the people who have started the program give up before completing the program, may be this is the reason we are not seeing much entries on this forum too. I want to continue as much as possible, though it is sometimes really tough to get the time and the cooperation from her. Hope you ladies are having it easire than me. Have any of you seen any break through recently, i.e when you are the middle level of the program?

Thanks for keeping in touch.

aussiemum
01-17-08, 09:17 PM
Glad to see I'm not the only one that seems to find it difficult to find the time and get co-operation to fit in the exercises. I thought that during school holidays it would be easier to find more time, but that isn't always the case as we are busy doing other things and holding the family up to fit them in sometimes just isn't possible. We are now on level 15 on the rockers and after initially finding it difficult to balance she is now coping quite well, he co-operation level has also been fixed by a 4 night stay at my friends house where Chloe was told very quickly to lose her attitude and get on with it !! should have sent her there earlier !

I am noticing that when she does an exercise she is .... different ... I guess would be a good word. She seems more grown up in her attitude and the way she speaks and the words she uses. I can see maths is going to be a constant problem, however she seems to be doing really well in reading and learning guitar as well as riding her bike as well as any of the other kids (and better than me who tried to ride the other week only to find it wasn't as easy as I once remembered it to be !!)

We have started back onto weeks 1-6 after 12 weeks of 7-12, she said she had a sore head when changing also when we changed the level on the rockers, so I take that as a positive sign things are still changing.

Keep up the good work ABBM I'm sure that in the long run we are doing the right thing, and it will work out for the benefit of our children and possibly others we can pass along the information to.

ABBM
01-29-08, 03:32 AM
Thanks aussimum,

Well this week we started working on the rollers at 25. It is kind of difficult for her to balance specially when the activity needs body movement to one side and when she does the hitting by head she lost balance few times. This is the first time I am seeing her loosing her balance and steping down from the board, am I rushing her? Does this mean she is still not ready for level 25. She was ok with 30 and she was on it for about 4 weeks so I thought it is time to put her on 25. Can you please share your experience.

Other than that, all is fine. She getting better in her reading, speech, homework etc. though it is not a always. Some time she gets back to her old careless, and hyperacitve self, and I am just praying these will be the phase before the real behavior change.

Thanks for all the feed back.

aussiemum
01-29-08, 06:58 PM
Hi ABBM,

I don't see a problem with falling off the board when you change levels, make sure she has her feet on the 5 line until she gets her balance better. Chloe sometimes falls off particularly when doing turning her body to the side in the throwing and catching beanbags exercise. Keep going at 25 she will get the hang of it.

It is Chloe's first day of school today for this year with a new teacher, I'll be interested to see what the new teacher notices ! If anything !

MsKat
01-29-08, 07:54 PM
Hi All,

Nice to hear from everyone. I was reading in the Dore thread which I found particularly interesting that at around the 8th month mark the children really start to loose a lot of their defiance and aggression which can actually get worse up to this stage. We have just passed 40 weeks on the programme and Harrison fingers crossed seems to have better emotional control.

During these holidays (5 weeks) we only had one melt down which prior LBP was usally once a week. It will be interesting as well what feedback I get from school and after school care as this is were he was having the most problems. My fingers are defiantly crossed I will let you know after a week or so once he has had a chance to settle in.

We are still on 10 on the board and have been for six weeks, I don't see us moving anytime soon as he is still very unsteady. A few days ago I moved the rockers back to 15 to see if I had pushed too hard but the board did not move on 15 so I have moved it back to 10 and watch him wiggle around like a worm.

Great hearing from everyone
Kathryn

MsKat
01-30-08, 07:50 PM
Sorry did forget to mention that I have heard that Dore also have a high drop out rate as well. Not surprising really as both programs require a substanial amount of effort and as we know gains can be very slow in coming.

aussiemum
01-30-08, 08:22 PM
I'm not surprised there is a drop out rate, the energy you need to keep your child going is enormous, day in day out for 12-18 months is a huge commitment from both you, family and the child involved.

MsKat
01-30-08, 09:37 PM
I so agree that's why I love chatting here as it keeps me motivated. My favourite is the Dore chat site as I read everyone's little gains and frustrations which mirror much of my own. I also think that I'm so scared of future battles and that I want to avoid them so a fair bit of pain now is better than the problems of no LBP latter.

Each week I write down how many weeks we have completed and I always have in the back of my mind how many to go.

But still saying all of the above when camping there we were with the ball hanging off one of the tarp poles and every other kid in the park having fun I was seriously questioning why me. If I had not already been doing for 9 months I would have thrown in the towel.

aussiemum
01-31-08, 02:18 AM
Just a quick question, has anyone started to use the shorter legs for the throwback board? I just remembered we had them and not sure when or if we should be using them yet.

MsKat
01-31-08, 05:42 PM
No I had forgot as well. Do they make it harder?

aussiemum
01-31-08, 07:36 PM
I think they do make it harder, as there is less angle on the ball coming back, but I'd also think you need to be closer to catch them as well.

ABBM
02-03-08, 07:32 AM
I didn't know about the high drop out rate for Dore, I thought they will be more motivated than us since they are getting first hand feedback. Any way, it is too much work, and I don't really know how long we can keep this up. For now I am planning to do it at least for 9 months, the program recommends from 9 - 12 months. 18 months is out of question for me. Thats too much. Once we reach roller level 5 and she can do the activities fairly then is there any benefit of continuing the program?

She just started level 25 and she finds it difficult to balance specially when she is doing the activities of hitting the pendulum ball with her head, and also when having to follow the bin bag with her head/nose. These activities are very challaging for her. Is there any activity that you find difficult?

About the short legs of the bouncing ball. I thought it is optional and we can choose which one to use. But if it increases the difficulty level, I will use it when we start the week 1-6 activities again.

MsKat
02-03-08, 07:26 PM
Yes I wonder too once we are stable on 5 is there any benefit in continuing. But given we are now on 10 on the board and have been for six weeks, I see us being here for another 6 weeks before we are ready to move to level 5 then if it takes us 12 weeks before we become stable and then another 4 weeks to just make sure that takes me to 62 weeks anyway....

daviansmom
02-06-08, 11:36 AM
Hello everyone. I have been doing extensive research on the Dore program, but it is way too expensive for us. I even visited the Grapevine, TX facility last Saturday. I am so ecstatic to have found information on LB by accident and to see people are having the same results as those that are on the Dore program. I plan on ordering my materials today. I have a nine year old son that is ADHD and has terrible handwriting. I don't know if his handwriting is from his ADHD or he possibly has dysgraphia. I look forward to sharing our experience with you.

aussiemum
02-06-08, 05:42 PM
welcome aboard daviansmom,

I certainly have found benefit from doing the LBP with my daughter, her handwriting did improve as well so hopefully you will find the same with your son. Good luck with the program and keep us posted how you go, we are all at different stages so if you have any questions please don't hesitate to post them and we will try and answer them for you.

Best of Luck

MsKat
02-06-08, 06:13 PM
Hi Daviansmom,

Welcome aboard its great to have another poster join us. Would love to hear all about your son what are his strenghts and weaknesses. I have also found it really helpful to look back on my old posts to see how far we have come in 9 months.

If you still keen after reading all our posts then you are going in with your eyes wide open too how hard 15mins twice a day can really be. I'm lucky I only have one child who does not have homework yet and who I deliberately kept out of any extra activities last year so I could focus on the programme.

This year I have just enrolled him in Taekwondo (Korean martial arts) and he starts next week. This is held straight after school on the grounds so again very easy for me. Hope I have not put you off as if you have the time and energy it gives you a chance to help them which has been very important for me.

Good luck
Kathryn

aussiemum
02-06-08, 07:56 PM
Hi MsKat,

Chloe has been doing Karate since early last year, I find it's good for her because of the discipline required/needed and the repetitiveness of it. I hope that you find the same for Harrison. Chloe has a brilliant memory in some ways eg: she can remember what we did on holidays 5or 6 years ago, what the weather was like what we ate etc etc, but as for remembering words, maths or actions she needs to go over and over the same thing to set it in her memory.

daviansmom
02-06-08, 09:37 PM
Thanks Aussiemom and MsKat for the warm welcome!

Let's see - my sons strengths are reading and spelling. His math is good, but not great. His weaknesses are organization, handwriting, and overall listening. He cannot ride a bike without training whees and it's not that we haven't tried teaching him.

He attends private school here in the states which I began due to the low teacher:student ratio, which I knew he would need when he stated kindergarten. His teacher just told me the other day that she believes he would be a straight A student if we could get the ADD under control. I refuse to do meds, which is my personal decision and I don't knock anyone who is giving meds to their child.

He started Taekwondo in April 2006 and advanced quickly in the beginning. By April 2007 he was bored with the whole thing and it was like pulling teeth to get him to go to class, so I quit taking him. I have tried homeopathic meds, Fish oils, the Feingold Diet (talk about a lot of work), and now I'm ready for the next step. I am prepared for the hard work of getting him to do his exercises and plan on setting up some type of reward system for him when he is cooperative with his exercises. Do any of you do this?

I will have my hands full I'm sure. The main thing will be to TRY to finish exercises before my four year wakes up in the morning and before I pick him up from daycare in the evening or he will want to try to "help".

Well, I ordered the materials earlier today and they said I should receive them within 7-14 days. Until then look forward to reading your posts and results.

Julie

daviansmom
02-06-08, 09:39 PM
I just realized that I make it sound like he is in Kindergarten. Davian is currently in his second year of second grade and turned 9 in December. Just had to clarify (if I knew how to insert a smiley here I would LOL)

MsKat
02-06-08, 09:55 PM
Hi Aussiemum,

You have given me hope I was worried that Harrison wont be able to control himself enough at Taekwondo. Harrison is the same as Chloe can remember events amazingly well but as to the rest it is a nightmare. I spent the school holidays trying to teach him how to spell all his little words and I mean little - or, is, I, the, by, as, that, they, no etc. He can not seem to remember any of them we practicsed nearly every day for 30mins. Slowly getting some now but who knows if he remembers at school.

I was reading Amypaige's post today on the Dore thread and she seems to also have some of the same problems to deal with as Harrison after 10 months on Dore. "Paige's reading level is very good as is her comprehension, she showed up 'at risk' for fluency and spelling". This is so him.

This is the time I need to remind myself he is now willing to hold a pencil, he writing is so much more flued even if he can not spell a thing. His emotional control is improving along with the clearness of speech.

I have resigned myself to completing the full 15-18 months, with lots of extra coaching from his mum and thanking the luckly stars I started early.

MsKat
02-06-08, 10:01 PM
Hi Julie,

Sounds like you have it all planned out which is great. I'm very excited for you while having this site so we can all vent and encourage is the best. I believe bike riding is something many can do after three months on the programme.

aussiemum
02-07-08, 03:20 AM
Hi Julie,

Chloe also could not ride a bike even with training wheels, no matter how hard we tried it just didn't work. Within 3 months of LB she I tried her on a bike with no training wheels and to my surprise she took off !! She is now very difficult to get off her bike and enjoys riding outings with her siblings.

We also have a reward system, as amazing as it sounds we have difficulty fitting in two sessions every day even in school holidays, so I made a reward if she did the whole week with no excercises missed, she got to pick something at the $2 shop (which is a cheap junky shop). I also write at the end of each week how many we missed so she can see and try and improve from that.

daviansmom
02-07-08, 06:34 PM
Aussiemum-

Isn't it hilarious how much they love those cheap toys? Sound like a great idea! Thanks!

Julie

daviansmom
02-11-08, 02:59 PM
Pleased to announce we received our materials on Saturday. I was SO excited, but Davian had left to go spend the night with his grandma and grandpa so we couldn't even get started. Yesterday evening I had him do day one and we will do both sessions of day one today. This morning he was so cooperative. I told him he needed to hurry and get ready for school so he could do his exercises and he got ready faster than ever before. He can't wait to start on the pendulum ball tomorrow.

Julie

aussiemum
02-11-08, 04:34 PM
That's great news Julie, they are rather enthusiastic at the start. Good luck with it all.

MsKat
02-11-08, 05:44 PM
Julie, cant wait to hear about her progress have you tried the board yourself yet, much harder than it looks especially once you start doing the exercises.

Harrison seems to have found some balance on rocker level 10 with his feet on 5, will move his feet to 10 in a week or so and see how it goes. We are at a good stage at the moment were we just do it which is nice it has become very routine.

Yesterday Harrison had a really big day at school as they put all the students in their new classes. He did not have a melt down which was great but when he got to bed he did have a cry about a lost teddy. I'm sure this is a result of LBP as previously we would have had yelling screaming, door slamming instead about some minor upset to realease all his tension of the day.

ABBM
02-12-08, 06:57 AM
Julie,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Nice to see a new member. And hope you will find our posts helpful. When we start LB about 6 months ago, the posts I read in this forum encouraged me a lot. And I still find them very useful in sharing the experience with others. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My daughter is 10 and half years old. The major problems she had in school was the disorganization of her work, handwriting, not concentrating on her work, not controlling her emotions etc. And socially she doesn't speak well when she is in rush or when she is nervous. She has a major body coordination problem and also I thing a minor learning disability along with the ADHD. I am glad to tell you that this academic year which started in September the above school issues are almost histroy now except for the minor traces (25%) of them. The teacher is very happy with her, and since she is a new teacher she doesn't know much of the issues I am talking about, and she thinks I worry too much. Well I feel blessed for this to happen, and I believe part of the reason for these improvements<o:p></o:p>
is LB.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Last year she did Teakwando for about 9 months. As you all said she was very interested in the beginning but lost her interest mid way and she started hating it. So I pulled her out when we start LB. She still couldn't ride her bike with out the training wheels, but hope she will learn soon. So far, I think we have achieved the target of making her an average student and she seems to have got control of her school work. So, next step for me is to work with her speech and body coordination. Once we complete LB, I am planning to put her into swimming and also may be some speech therapy.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I am glad I started LB. And hope you will find it as useful. It is very hard work interms of the early morning hectic schedule plus keeping them motivated doing the same thing twice a day. I give cash reward to my daughter every 6 weeks. And sometimes the only reason she is doing the exercise is for the money. http://www.addforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Good luck and keep updating us on the progress.<o:p></o:p>

daviansmom
02-12-08, 01:57 PM
First of all I have to say how wonderful the internet is! I think it is so awesome how all of us parents from ALL over the world can share our experiences together.

Yes, I have tried the board and would love to be doing to exercises along with Davian. I did them once Saturday and once Monday. Monday I got an awful headache afterwards, but I'm not sure it had anything to do with the exercises as I have another headache today.

Davian did day two of the exercises today and had a great time with the pendulum ball.
His teacher is at a conference until Thursday and I am hoping she will be able to see some results when she gets back. Wouldn't that be awesome if she came back and said, "What happened with Davian?" Wishful thinking . . .

aussiemum
02-12-08, 04:31 PM
The headaches are normal Julie, all our children have experienced them it is all to do with excercising the cerebellum. I always take it as a good sign that things are working as they should when Chloe gets one, she usually gets one when changing the rockers or starting on a different set of excercises.

MsKat
02-12-08, 04:50 PM
Thanks for such a positive post ABBM, it helps me stay on track and makes my day really. Harrison had his first Teakwando class yesterday and I was nervous when I went to pick him up as I only get there just after it has finished.

The master (I think) said Harrison did very well and I'm so relieved it is very rare for me to get such positive feedback. We did not do the exercises very well as he was exhausted and I may miss them altogether next time. That night at home he was very grown up I think the responsibility of getting there even though on the school grounds and getting dressed was something he really enjoyed.

Hoping we have turned the corner

K

daviansmom
02-19-08, 12:36 PM
Just thought I'd update.

I have been doing the exercises at least once a day and have found I have an easier time focusing, staying on task, and lots more energy. Davian on the other hand has been sick with the flu since last Thursday. Today I will have him do one set of exercises in the afternoon since he is finally feeling better. He only got in 4 days worth of exercises before he got sick. Basically we are starting over . . . Honestly he wasn't ready for week two anyway. If week one is too difficult we are supposed to continue doing it until it becomes easier right?

Hope everyone else is doing well.

Julie

MsKat
02-19-08, 04:49 PM
Hi Julie,

Bugger I say. I believe you need to do the first week for 6-12 weeks before starting on week 2. We did week 1 for the full 12 weeks then week 2 for the full 12 weeks and now swap between the two every 6 weeks. More energy that is a first.

We are now into week 43 and Harrison's moods have really improved. We are having no temper tantrums it is really pleasant. At the start he used to come home from school saying everyone hated him and he had no friends (even though he did), we even had I'm going to kill myself more than a few times which was frightening from a six year old. I would describe it as intense high's & low's. After 43 weeks on LBP he is so much more balanced passing that eight month mark has been a real turning point for us.

Now all I have to is get him to stop fiddling around but oh well suppose I cant expect miracles. At least he can finish most tasks now.

Kathryn

ABBM
02-20-08, 05:15 AM
Mskat,
Thanks for your kind words too. I hope this will motivate others to share their experience and also to start the program.

Daviansmom,
We also struggled in the beginning. At the first week, it used to take us about 40 minutes just to finish the activity one time. Stick with the rules and insist that he should do the activities every day, so he will take it seriously and try his best. But try to do it twice a day, it is important for them to get used to the routine. The advise I get from LB at the time was that some of the activities are difficult for children to do, so you my just let him try them but don’t insist on perfection. If he does few correct ones out of the 30 times repeating it is ok, he will improve. The main thing is to note that the exercise works only when you do it consistently every day. At the beginning stage giving immediate rewards also will encourage them to do the activity. I used to give my daughter extra TV time, weekend going out, shopping for small toys or sweets, etc. and it worked for me. As Mskat said you have to do week 1-6 activities for at least 6 weeks (but we also did it for 12 weeks) afterwards you shall start the week 7-12 activities for another 6 weeks (we are again doing it for 12 week) and then you may alternate every 6 weeks b/n the two sets of exercise. By the way we are on our 23<SUP>rd</SUP> week; I hope the 6<SUP>th</SUP> month will be another turning point for us.

MsKat
02-27-08, 05:36 PM
Hi All,

This last week we have been trying something a little different. Before he starts his exercises he stands on the board and I slowly count to 20 and if he losses his blances and the board hits the floor I start again. I have found it really quitens him down before the exercises begin and his balance has improved. It can sometimes add a few minutes but he quite enjoys it as well as it is a quite a challenge. As a result of this I have moved his feet out to 10 on the board at level 10 and he is progressing nicely.

Would love to hear from everyone
K

daviansmom
02-28-08, 11:29 AM
I have a question about handwriting. Did anybody see their child's handwriting get worse before it got better? Davian's handwriting was already REALLY bad, and now it's even worse. I can't tell if he's just being sloppy or really having a hard time.

Thanks,
Julie

MsKat
02-28-08, 05:10 PM
Julie, sorry not sure about the handwriting but I know the reading got better in the first six weeks and then everything else started to fall apart afterwards, his whole temperment got worse. On the Dore site they often talk about regression as the brain is rewiring itself to the correct way so would not be suprised at all. Harrison's handwriting has improved by 50% on LBP and recently we started another programme called train the brain recommended on another ADHD site as it was still not as good as we had hoped. In the last six weeks on this programme his writing flow has improved a lot but we still arn't there yet. It's a programme by Jeanette Farmer and I have just swapped the handwriting practice books for this one, not sure at this stage if it is the answer but willing to give it a go.

Kathryn

aussiemum
02-28-08, 11:57 PM
Not sure about handwriting either to think of it, however she wasn't very neat but now her writing seems to be quite good, so I'm assuming it's LB that's done that. Her reading zoomed ahead in the first 6 weeks then slowed down alot, she is still having trouble remembering words she reads ALL the time and it frustrates me sooo much !! But I think we are still moving ahead although slowly now.

MsKat
02-29-08, 12:46 AM
Aussiemum, I know what you mean about the frustration, I'm still trying to teach Harrison all his little words and after going over each word at least 100 times he still has problems remembering 50%... oh the pain..

ABBM
03-03-08, 01:41 AM
Handwriting and neatness was something I wished for her to improve too. What I have observed from my daughter is usually her handwriting depends on her mood. Sometimes she really surprises me with a very neat and good handwriting but usually it is just something she doesn't care about. And the class works are worse than the homework. I think too many destruction in class rooms makes her less attentive to her work. I don’t think LB has changed the handwriting much, but my hope is when her concentration improves and she is able so sit still and work on something attentively she will eventually learn to be careful with her writing too.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

wilford
03-04-08, 07:41 PM
I've been reading over the reviews posted here and there, both on this site and in news articles about treatments involving balance/exercise, coordination. I may indeed buy the Learning Breakthrough program and give it a try. Foremost, these threads bring to mind what has always been a great treatment for me-- tennis. The times I had my ADHD under the most control was when I consistently played-- at least 3 times a week, minimum. I'm in my late twenties thus no sports programs to choose from like parents here, but if I did, tennis makes the most sense. Unlike basketball, football and baseball where the skill employed depends on where coach puts you, with tennis you constantly practice and improve balance, track a rapidly moving object (the ball) with your eyes while coordinating numerous body maneuvers-- often in awkward positions. My job put me on location in a small town with no tennis clubs and I immediately could tell that mental stamina and physical energy-- including all those other cognitive tasks noted by learning programs-- became more difficult. I got so into tennis that I may buy the LB program to see if it improves my game rather than my adhd; which, I think is a good sign, because the only true way to recognize effective treatment is starting to "feel normal," which is hard to recognize because you're not thinking about the treatment at all.:) PS: I took up golf to work on deferred gratification/patience. My one true gratitude to stimulant meds is beating my sister, consistently, on the golf course and not feeling goofy out there-- the sister part first. Anyways, if you can't afford a program, get a used racket and a tennis partner and head to the community courts.

MsKat
03-09-08, 08:59 PM
Hi All,

Just thought I would share some info I received from LBP. I contacted them last week as Harrison who is on 10 on the board still seems to be struggling. Marc was not surprised as 10 is really the highest level reached with 5 only being used by one gifted athlete and then only as a trail. So at least that explains our lack of progress at this level.

On another note Harrison reading has really gained some fluency in the last few weeks. Now all I need is his spelling to improve and then I will be a very happy mum. I still intend to do the full 15 months on the programme and am counting done the weeks only 20 to go.

Would love to hear from everyone else
K

ABBM
03-10-08, 09:45 AM
Mskat,

Thanks for the update. However I did not understand what Mark meant clearly. Does he mean that only one athlet has so far balanced on level 5? and the hightest they normally expect for children to reach is level 10? I couldn't see anything on the program that indicates that it lasts 15 months. What I understood from my reading was 9 - 12 months. Doing LB day in and out and trying to motivate our kids is very difficult, so I just want to make sure to reach the optimum level period and level of balancing. We are on week 26, so long long way to go. Can you post the answer you received from Mark please.

Thanks.

MsKat
03-10-08, 06:42 PM
Hi ABBM,

Firstly congratulations on making it to the 26 week mark.

I'm reluctant to post Marc's reply without his permission, but yes you are right the highest level people seem to reach is 10 on the rockers once they have done the 9-15 months on the programme. He indicated that 15 on the rockers for some was also as high as they would achieve as 10 is very difficult which is what we have found with Harrison.

Yesterday I moved his feet on rocker level 10 back to 5 (10/5) and the board was very stable, so we either have that or have him really challenged on (10/10).

No you are also right nothing in the book but the website has been updated which Marc also mentioned in another mail to 9-15 months for best results. I have also chosen to do the extra 3 months as Harrison was only six when we started just turned seven so very young compared to most.

Saying that I am really happy were Harrison is at this stage (exept for his spelling) so given that I know we could stop if we really wanted to it makes it hard to be motivated.

ABBM how are you finding the programme have you noticed any changes?

It has been all up for us since we hit the 9 month mark
Kathryn

ABBM
03-11-08, 02:40 AM
Mskat,
Thanks again for the clarification. Nami is doing level 20 and she finds it difficult to balance so I assume 15 will be real challenge to her. Any way since we are also planning to go up to 12 months there is lots of time for progress. I find the programme very good. She has improved in many ways, She is going to be 11 soon, I don't know wether this is part of her maturing or just LB. In this acadamic year I have seen good improvement on her handwriting, spelling, organizing of work, reading, comprehension, speed of work etc. The things she is not on her grade level now is math word problems, creative/journal writing and map reading, which I hope will impove gradually. The other main issue was her body coordination, I have seen slight impovement since she started LB but not as much as I expected.

Abi.

MsKat
03-11-08, 06:16 PM
Hi Abi,

That's great news, my mother always said its because he is maturing he is doing ok but I think he would have been just further behind as he did not have the correct foundation to build on. It's the programme that allows our kids to make these gains. When reading other websites and noting parents frustration with teachers not helping their child enough I just want to shout give LBP a try the power is in your hands to make it better you don't have to rely on others.

Don't get me wrong the programme hasn't made Harrison the smartest in the class, it hasn't made him perfect but it has made him a happy, able to cope well adjusted young boy. Now we only have to improve his spelling, but I have hope as we have 18 more weeks to go.

Fingers Crossed

MsKat
03-13-08, 06:58 PM
Aussiemum are you still out there haven't heard from you for a few weeks. Hope you are still on board and you have seen some progression.

would love to hear from you
K

aussiemum
03-14-08, 01:47 AM
Hi, yes I'm still here, I have taken up a Uni course so am finding time even more difficult to find !! We are still on track but have had quite a few missed sessions so we seem to start again at the balancing on level 15, she just starts to balance nicely then we have this hiccup of missing excercises, oh well we'll get there.

MsKat
03-16-08, 10:48 PM
Hi everyone, this was in the paper on the weekend http://www.smh.com.au/news/parenting...472167174.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/parenting/dyslexia-program-tests-positive/2008/03/15/1205472167174.html).
I found of real interest the following... Significant gains in hand-eye co-ordination and working memory and modest changes in spelling, reading and writing.

I must admit I have been very, very happy with Harrison progress in the last four weeks but we also have been doing the handwriting programme http://www.retrainthebrain.com/index.htmlhttp for nearly 10 weeks now and I think that the combination of the two that has been for us the final push over the line.

It is still early days yet with the second so will keep you posted.

Kathryn

ABBM
03-18-08, 04:58 AM
Thanks MsKat. It sure is interesting to see the info.

summerland
03-18-08, 09:15 AM
Hello all,
I have enjoyed reading through this thread. Took me a while. We have been using Learning Breakthrough since the beginning of February this year. I should say hear that we means my husband and myself, and my daughter's two young children. We bought a Learning Breakthrough extended kit from www.balametrics.com (http://www.balametrics.com) We also bought "A Perceptual Motor and Visual Perception Handbook of Developmental Activities for Schools, Clinics, Parents and Preschool Programs" and the fixation block game. My daughter is using the activities from the Motor and Visual Perception Handbook as her children are aged 5 and 6. These exercises were a good place to start. They don't all require a balance board but she incorporates balance board activities most days.
Having read through the posts I think that there is some difference in the DVD that you get theough LB to the one we got from Balametrics. We got one DVD with 9 different exercises on it whereas you all talk about one week of exercises you do for 6-12 weeks and then another set of exercises you do for the next 6-12 weeks and then cycle through them again. We also got a Learning Breakthrough Program book that has lots of other exercises in it. The instructions are that you can either just do the activities on the DVD or construct sequences from the activities in the book. Did you all get a book like that too? Our 9 different exercises on the DVD are 1. bean bags, 2 and 3 pendulum ball, 4 and 5 pendulum ball and target pins, 6 and 7 pendulum ball target pins and control stick, 8 super ball toss back using 1 ball, 9 bean bags with a second person throwing the bag to you. Some pendulum ball exercise include hitting it with various parts of the head. Is this very different to your DVD?
I have a few other points I want to talk about but I will do it another day as this is already to long and it is getting late.
You have all been dong a great job and it is good to hear how you are all sticking in there and doing your best. Congratulations
:)

MsKat
03-18-08, 07:25 PM
Hi Summerland, welcome aboard. Interesting that you received different exercises I too started at the Balametrics site and it said for international orders please qlick here which I did and it took me to the learning breakthrough site. As you mentioned we have a different dvd with 5 exercises for each week so a total of 10 different sets.

Week 1 Week 2
Day 1 Bean Bags Bean Bags
Day 2 Pendulum Ball Pendulum Ball
Day 3 Pendulum Ball Pendulum Ball - with Targets
Day 4 Pendulum Ball with stick Pendulum Ball - with Targets & Stick
Day 5 Super Ball toss back Super ball toss back - two balls in some

I think the programme book contains all the exercises we do but it is very long winded and I would not try as doing the exercises while the DVD is on makes all the difference. Shows you the right technique and timing. Yes we also have to hit the pendulum ball with our head, chin, elbows, wrists etc so I don't think would be that different.

Maybe yours is a newer version as my is a year old now. I also started my son on the programme when he just turned six and we have not had any real problems starting so early so would love to her from you.

summerland
03-19-08, 11:11 AM
Thanks MsKat for your answer. At first I thought I would have to buy from LB but then I realised that that is only if you are just buying the standard kit. If you want something else as well then you can buy from Balametrics. Balametrics is run by the Belgau's, I think the son and daughter of the man who invented the balance board. The emails I got were from Beverley Belgau. I think that the difference in the DVD must be that they did their own and LB did their own. There are certainly plenty of exercises in the book to choose from so it would not be surprising if they had chosen some different ones.
My intention is to record an audio of some of the other exercises to make them easy to use. If I get someone to do the exercises as I read them out I shoud get reasonable timing. I know that now I rarely actually look at the video but just follow the audio. I'll certainly let you know if I get any done that are useable.
We first started looking at this because my grandson age 6 was haveing real learning difficulties at school. My husband, Bruce, has always had some processing problems and when we fould all this he said it is never to late to do something about it. The more I read the more I could see that there were areas of balance and knowing where your body is in space that I had never had right so I decided to do it for myself as well.
We have been very interested in reading everyone's comments about the headaches etc. Bruce has always experienced pressure in his head when he would do something that was a stretch for his brain. Once it had happened the only way it would go away was for him to lie down with his eyes covered for a while or go to sleep for the night and in the morning it was reset and normal.
While we were waiting for our equipment to come we found some fun exercises to do and Bruce found that they gave him the same pressure and we got thinking about how hard it could be if this program did the same thing. We had a think tank on it and decided to see what would happen if we used magnets on the head while doing them. So we made up headbands with several magnets in them and it worked. The first magnets we used were quite small and they alleviated it a lot the next one we used larger ones and it pretty much stopped it happening. When we got our balance board etc if he did the exerciese without the headband he got the pressure if he did them with it he didn't. Now that he had been doing them for a while he dosen't get the pressure even without the magnets but we know that as soon as it is a challenge to his brain he will need to wear them again.
It might be something worth trying.
It is late again so my other topics can wait for another day. I must stop looking at this when I should be going to bed

nikki3
03-20-08, 12:31 AM
Hi I'm fairly new to this... to be clear first up, summerland is my Mum and MsKat pointed us to this site from another forum... Son Matthew is 6, mild ADD, severe learning disorder, repeating grade 1; daughter Katheryne is 5, has stutter, in prep.

We still have the rockers on 50. Matthew's feet are on 5, Katheryne's feet on 10. We try to use the board for extra things not just the exercises eg if Matthew is practicing his show and tell I get him on the board to do it. Or I'll get them to tell me about their day on the board.

With the exercises I read aloud out of the book and they do what I say. I tried to put on the DVD one time and Matthew went hyper, but me reading it out is fine.

At school he knows more than the end of last year, but he is fast falling behind the rest of the class and he knows it.

nikki3
03-20-08, 12:33 PM
I accidently said Matthew's ADD is mild.... this afternoon after the easter bunny was at school... I have been reminded that we just have it well managed - most of the time...

ABBM
03-24-08, 06:01 AM
nikki3,

Nice to see some new members. Welcome onboard. I hope you will find the program useful. My advice is to stick to the activities listed in the program. If you want to give them additional activities like standing on the board regularly, then check with the program advisors first it is ok.

We are doing fine in this corner. My daughter is doing on level 20 or the rockers, still not stable on her 4th week, it getting difficult, I can see that she will be in the same level for at least additional 2 - 3 weeks.

Aussimum and Mskat:
I have a question for you. Last week Nami was complaining about a sever headache like after 4 - 5 hrs of doing the excercies she even vomited on two occassions, have you experienced any of this before?

regards,
Abi

miss ellie
03-24-08, 01:43 PM
Couldn't help reading the sister thread for Dore haven't been on for ages and found all the news interesting.
ABBM your post on the headaches and vomiting I think are due to the problems within the middle ear the vestibuler system and eye co-ordination probably because of the stimulation while doing the exercises. This is part of the childs or adults problems with balance and if stimulated can in some cases cause a reaction like motion sickness.

The use of magnets on your husbands head Summerland was very interesting and if it is working then go for it. As the exercises begin to take affect and sort the system out the side effects should begin to disappear. Just be aware that if it continues for too long just check with your doctor that there is nothing untoward expecially in an adult as high blood pressure can show up as a headache or even a migraine. Ellie XXX

MsKat
03-24-08, 06:27 PM
Hi All,

Nice hearing from everyone. ABBM yes I also remember reading somewhere that vomiting while not common can happen and that it is a very good sign as it means that the programme will really work well for those individuals.

Niki I thought so when I read your mums post thanks for the clarification. The DVD we use features Eric Dr Belgau's son so I am a bit confused. Maybe you could contact them and ask why there seems to be two sets of exercises? Maybe they just forgot to send you the DVD?

My son has just turned 7 also in Year 1 (oldest in his class). We started the programme when he was only 6.2 years old. He has come so far in a year. I have also been working on the 3R's at home with him all year while doing the programme just to keep him on a level with the other kids at school, extra work six days a week. It seems to be paying off he is on par with his peers and finally I think he is getting the whole spelling thing. A lot of extra work but he knows no different really at this age so much easier than 2-4 years down the track and a lot more issues.

In train the brain the other programme I use in a particular section I love quotes some other research stating it takes 30mins of extra work for a 5-6 year old to catch up and 2 hours for a 8-9 year old. I know what I would rather.

All the best
K

ABBM
03-26-08, 07:32 AM
Hi,

Thanks Mskat and Miss Ellie. I will take the positive note and won't panic it it happens again. For now it seems to be ok.

Cheers,

aussiemum
03-28-08, 02:13 AM
Ok, here I finally am for an update. Chloe's teacher this year is really switched on and picked up on a few things that she shouldn't be doing at her age and wanted it looked into further with the school psycologist. She did really badly in her test on IQ it showed that Chloe has the IQ of a shoe box basically ! less than 2 per cent of children her age. We know this is not true, she is exceptionally clever but cannot express it. She hadn't dont her exercises before the test nor had she done all the sessions leading up to the test, as well as it was the last week of term when traditionally Chloe gets very tired and her concentration span is almost nil. We have asked to have the test done again on the first week back at school, when we will make sure she gets lots of sleep and her exercises are all up to date.

She also has a problem with her short term memory, long term is great as we have proved many times in the past. So we've been giving her little tests to strengthen her short term memory and recall.

We have given her 10 days off exercises as it was just not working, she was horrible to put it bluntly, we argued everytime (worse than normal) I mentioned the word "exercises" to the point many times that I told her I would burn her equipment (which of course didn't help anything ! ) she was also saying she was bored with them and even though I explained there is not long to go until they are finished never to be seen from again, it didn't help either. So in desperation we gave her a break and worked on her short term memory stuff and explained to her that the second week of holidays she needs to go back to exercises until they are finished. Hopefully this will work as even treats and special things didn't make a difference.

Anyway, there you have it, our update for the moment, oh and I'm on crutches and fighting with her is the last thing I need at the moment, I am also enjoying the break from exercises (selfish that may be but I've earned it !)

miss ellie
03-28-08, 04:48 AM
Hi Aussiemum I can relate to a low IQ it was the main reason they would not give Leila a specific learning difficulty because they felt she was learning within her IQ range. Unlke Chloe Leila also had problems with her long as well as her short term memory.
Of course that has all changed since doing Dore she is maintaining her abiltiy to learn on a par with her peers and even though she has never had a retest for her IQ I do not see a problem she is now a normal 13 year old.
The learning breakthrough should have the same capacity as Dore to aid the developement of Chloes IQ as well as her other difficulties as she progresses through the treatment, but it may well be the same as Leila and take time. Leila capacity to learn did not take off till near the end of her treatment when she was finally learning on a par with her peers, but she did have a lot of learning to make up after and of course they do continue to make progress up to 2 years after Dore, I am unsure with the LB programme though but it ay be worth a phone call Aussiemum. Ellie XXX

miss ellie
03-28-08, 04:59 AM
Chloe's aversion lately to doing the exercises could well be a progression phase Aussiemum they go through them in Dore and I would have thought it would be the same with LB where they seem as though they are going backwards instead of forwards if she is near to ending the LB programme then it will be more acute and could be another reason why her IQ seems low if she is in the middle of it, Just a thought. Ellie XXX

ABBM
03-30-08, 05:30 AM
Aussimum,
Sorry to hear of the difficult days you are going through. Since we didn't reach the level you are, I can not comment much on LB and the progress stage you are in. But the defiance from Chole I can see it coming from Nami too, there are days she just won't want to do the exercise and then when I force her to do it, she will do everything wrong. And I am expecting it to be more when we progress further in the program. In this corner of the world they don’t test the IQ of students, so we assume all of them are as smart as they can be… Nami is usually ok with understanding things but there are days that she couldn’t understand or do anything correctly. It is as if her brain is closed. If they give her the IQ test on such days, she will surely score below a shoe box. The point I am trying to make here is, we know that our children have issues which shouldn’t be there in their respective age, it could be their behavior, they way they talk, the way they work etc. but an unreasonably picky teacher can negatively affect the progress we are trying to make. And also the days and situations in which the tests are being conducted matters a lot. So as you said you may have to do the testing again on other days. We can not deny that the program is boring and isn’t something any of us are looking forward to do every morning. And if we the adults can feel this way, imagine how it is for the kids, so sometimes it is better to let go and get them some rest but don’t make is the habit and don’t astray for long, thus you won’t have to go back a level when you start again. The main thing is keep going as long as you can and hope that the next breakthrough will be soon.
Wish you good luck and get well soon.

Abi.

aussiemum
03-30-08, 07:59 PM
Well everyone, first day back on exercises after about 10 days break, seems to have been a success !! We said to her last night that if she is up earlier than us (which is unusual) then she can put on the dvd and do the exercises with Eric (I think that's his name) she is capable of doing the easy beanbag activity without constant supervision but if she is doing them on her own she never seems to go long enough, think she is not throwing high enough, that's why I said so it with the dvd that way it is slow progress and she'll get the most from it. Anyway, I woke up to the sound of Eric's voice and the noise of beanbags, rockers on 15 and feet on 10, no arguments !! woohooo now lets see what it's like the rest of the week!

MsKat
03-31-08, 12:18 AM
Hi Aussiemum,

Sorry to hear of your frustrations, Harrison did get a whole lot worse until we hit the 8 month mark then things started to become a lot better for us. You are hitting the 10 month mark so I was hoping you would start to see the same gains as well. I have a parent teacher interview in the next few weeks so it will be interesting.

We have only three more weeks to go before the end of a year, and we both have become very bored. I am really going to have to force myself to go beyond the year now. Maybe after the parent teacher interview I will have the motivation to carry on as I know we arn't there yet.

Not sure how to give you the motivation to go on, maybe she is going through a major rewire/spurt and short term memory recall is only around the corner. Maybe thinking you only have four more months is an eaiser sell.

You have been battling for so long only a little bit longer
K

MsKat
03-31-08, 12:20 AM
aussiemum, sorry just read your new post it has taken me 6 hours to complete mine... no many interuptions.

Great news.... fingers crossed for you

MsKat
04-10-08, 10:59 PM
Hi all,

We had our parent teacher evening and she noted Harrison's focus and impulse control has improved which is great news. His reading and spelling are all fine. I asked her were she would place him in class and she said around the middle. He does have some areas that he needs to work on but nothing significant. While it is such a relief to find he is keeping up I was secretly hoping for better. We have worked so hard behind the scenes not only with the programme but with extra work.

We will continue with the programme for the next three months to ensure maximum benefits and keep up with the extra home tutoring for the rest of the year and then reassess. I must admit he finally seems to be remembering his small spelling words which is such a relief.

So even though we have not achieved mental greatness we have achieved normal and there is a huge relief to say that after nearly a year on LBP.

How is everyone else going?
Kathryn