ADD, autism link may be overlooked, author says


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Talks on book scheduled in N. Ky.

By William Croyle
Cincinatti Enquirer contributor


NEWPORT - Diane Kennedy, mother of three, has been on a personal mission for the last eight years to inform people about the relationship between attention deficit disorder (ADD) and autism.

She will bring her knowledge and personal experiences to Barnes & Noble at Newport on the Levee tonight, and to Immanuel United Methodist Church in Lakeside Park on Saturday.

Kennedy's 12-year-old son was misdiagnosed at the age of three as having attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) with oppositional defiant disorder (ODD). He actually had Asperger's Syndrome, a social communication disorder and form of autism.

The difference is that in ADHD with ODD, the behavior is defined as willful. With Asperger's Syndrome, the behavior is not intentional on the part of the child. "He was very defiant and was having 2-hour temper tantrums. He couldn't cope with a change in routine or new surroundings," said Kennedy. "We would go to someone's house and he would hide under the couch or behind a plant."

As her son's behavior got worse, Kennedy began to explore ADHD and autism further. She found her son was not willful."Can you imagine being told since you were three that this is your fault? Think of the repercussions as the child gets older," said Kennedy. "If we just call it hyperactivity and throw medication at it, we'll never touch the social issues. We need to better identify what the problem is."

In Kennedy's book, The ADHD Autism Connection she talks about her 12-year-old son and two older sons, one who also has Asperger's Syndrome, the other who has ADHD.

I have had 3 daughters.

The oldest was dx'd with ADHD. She was suspected of having Asperger Syndrome and possibly COBPD (Childhood-onset Bipolar Disorder). She died in a traffic accident last year at the age of 10.

My 2nd daughter is now 9. She has been dx'd with ADHD. She has also been dx'd with depression (though this may be situational given the loss of her sister/s).

My 3rd daughter is 8. She is Severely/Profoundly mentally retarded. This is related to a teratogenic syndrome she has, but she is also dx'd with Autism. This is not can occur with the syndrome, but is not a common manifestation of it. It is more likely that there is a genetic relationship here. She has 2 cousins with autism and Bipolar Disorder also runs in our family. I am reading where Bipolar Disorder and Autism are often comorbid within families.

I, myself, have Epilepsy, ADHD, Bipolar Disorder and see some Asperger traits in myself as well-- especially my "obsessive narrow interests in just one or two topics." For me, that subject/area is Neuropsychology and Genetics. I often have to stop myself from rambling about it in a conversation. I have to remind myself that just because it fascinates me, that doesn't mean others are interested in it as well.

I'm told that I probably don't have Aspergers, but I sure see a lot of it's qualities in myself. (I see a ton more too......but I'll stop myself here). ;) A year ago, I would have kept typing. A year from now, I'll probably type less on the subject. (I'm learning the social norms. It's just taking me a while longer). :)

~Sandy

I'll be interested to hear more from you on the topics you are practicing not talking about too much. I hope that doesn't work against your progress.

Most people who work in psychology, mental health, etc, when studying these syndromes, start to see themselves in every disorder. Its scary for them. I wonder if the same phenomenon is happening to you, studying on your own, no one to ground you again into understanding the differences between your perceived symptoms and the conditions you are studying up on.

J
:)

I'm fascinated by the ADHD/autism connection. I'd noticed when reading about these conditions that many of the symptoms were similar ... reading the book helped pull it all together.

ADD (mostly inattentive) runs in my family, and many of us seem a little bit Aspie to me. ;) My 5-y.o. falls into the continuum somewhere, but I'm not sure where.

I bought Diane Kennedy's book and it is really interesting. I never knew the two were so closely connected. It have opened my eyes up big time.

I am Diane Kennedy...and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart! This book is a labor of love. I am thrilled to know it has helped others...

Your point <knowledge is power> is my favorite phrase...part of my seven year dedication it took to write the book.

It is my hope you all will continue to share "the good news" very few know just how close these are connected. yet, millions seek these answers

I am encouraged by your comments ...

feel free to contact me.. I welcome feedback

Blessings
Diane M. Kennedy

Most people who work in psychology, mental health, etc, when studying these syndromes, start to see themselves in every disorder. Its scary for them. I wonder if the same phenomenon is happening to you, studying on your own, no one to ground you again into understanding the differences between your perceived symptoms and the conditions you are studying up on.

J
:)
I took a test called the AQ test which looks for autistic traits and I scored right there in the autistic range, and this got me interested in autism, and I thought that I might have it. Considering that my speech was later than typical, and some other things, I thought that autism was the best explanation, but wondered if I wasn't falling into the trap where students read about some condition, and then think they have it. Well, several opinions later, I found out that I was right, with the first opinion saying Asperger's Syndrome, and the others saying PDD-NOS. There was littile difficulty in seeing the autism in me, but still the most common response to my claim of autism is outright dismissal. Dave...

Those online tests don't mean much.

I score high on the aspie quiz, but I am able to socialize well enough, and I make eye contact with not too much strain. If you talk to me you soon see that I am not very aspie like, even though my symptoms look a bit like it on paper.

The bugger is that people with ADHD or bipolar will often have a lot of aspie like characteristics, but still are not aspies. The spectral nature of AS makes it even more fuzzy.... where do you draw the line between AS-like morbidities and an AS diagnosis ??

If you have an individual with social skill problems, acute hypersensitivities, ADHD, maybe add a little bipolar and some OCD traits, it can look a lot like AS.

But the thing you have to do is to talk to the person and ask: "Is this autism?" And let us not forget to ask about childhood medical history and developmental milestones. Aspsie kids are not like other kids and the differences turn up rather readily.

Me :D

[QUOTE=speedo]Those online tests don't mean much.

I score high on the aspie quiz, but I am able to socialize well enough, and I make eye contact with not too much strain. If you talk to me you soon see that I am not very aspie like, even though my symptoms look a bit like it on paper.


Even if that online test did not mean much, it got me headed in the right direction, and thus it served its purpose. If you were to hang around with me, you would see the autism coming through. And I have enough opinions, so now all I have to do is deal. Dave...

Dave;

Well, that is a good thing. The online tests did cause me to follow up as well. I just finished a neuropsych evaluation, and am waiting to see my neurologist for furter testing. I am glad you got your answers. Mine are just now starting to come in. Now I am looking for someone who knows how to treat my condition.

My concern is that too many people place to much emphasis on the online tests. I guess the only damage there is excess worry ?

ME :D




[QUOTE=speedo]Those online tests don't mean much.

I score high on the aspie quiz, but I am able to socialize well enough, and I make eye contact with not too much strain. If you talk to me you soon see that I am not very aspie like, even though my symptoms look a bit like it on paper.


Even if that online test did not mean much, it got me headed in the right direction, and thus it served its purpose. If you were to hang around with me, you would see the autism coming through. And I have enough opinions, so now all I have to do is deal. Dave...

You might try this one. It looks for NT traits and aspie traits at the same time.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php


ME :D

You might try this one. It looks for NT traits and aspie traits at the same time.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php


ME :Dhi ive just done the test and it came out that im an aspie . and i did the aq test and i scored high on that as well

Very close to 50/50 slightly on the aspie side. An interesting set of questions. Thnnks for bumping up the thread. :D Paula

I just retook it. I scored 177/200 aspie and 60/200 NT.
It said; "You are very likely an aspie".

I'm actually diagnosed as adhd combined type with anxiety NOS. My sensory issues and my tendency to be a bit ocd-ish along with avoiding social settings tends to bump the aspie score up a bit, I think.

Here is the thing about spectrum disorders; Do you have a fundamental need for sameness or predictability?

Do you dislike multitasking ?

The need for samenes is a hallmark of autism spectrum disorders.

Based on what I've read, aspies typically do not multitask very well, (maybe a few aspies do multitask ?) but many ADDers tend to multitask as a matter of routine.

I multittask intensely. I often do not like it, but I have a natural tendency to task switch. This makes me doubt any inclination toward AS for myself. At the same time, unexpected changes in routine can often throw me into a tailspin, so I really do relate to what PDD is like.

In any case, this is a very fundamental difference between autism spectrum disorders and ADHD. While I think that a lot of people with spectrum disorders are initially misdiagnosed as having ADHD only, I don't think that is sufficient reason to claim a link between ADHD and autism. I thnk the two are very distinct, separate disorders that merely have a high rate of comorbidity due to the fact that they both affect similar regions of the brain.

Now, if one can show that some aspies do multitask, then you might be able to argue that there could be a connection between the two disorders.

Me :D

hi speedo,

you know i did the test, and i scored 24 on the aspie, and 176 on the NT.

what is confusing me..is that what does it mean you are very likely Neurotypical? i mean i have no idea what that is, i tried to read about that and just didn't get it..sorry for my ignorance!

pls may you help me with some explanation and make it easier for me? :)

best regards

You might try this one. It looks for NT traits and aspie traits at the same time.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php


ME :DI didn't actually take the quiz, I was wondering more about my granddaughter than about myself. I had been wondering about the connection between Fibromyalgia and ADHD and AS - so wasn't surprised to see that listed. I'd also wondered a little bit about a connection with Parkinson's and that was listed in the questions as well. Poor little bugger... her gramma has ADHD and I suspect that her daddy does to. Gramma and daddy are not related. Her gramma and her mommy both have Fibromyalgia and her daddy has Parkinsons. No wonder she's been having such a tough time, especially since starting Pre-K back in August.

However, another possible connection I've learned about is Celiac's Disease. Our family doctor didn't have the facilities to test for that, and I couldn't convince her mom to go to another doctor to get that test done. However, when the teacher said it was time to do some tests for her, and she tested as being quite a bit behind her classmates, even in gross motor skills... I took it on myself to get her into a doctor who could do the test for Celiac's. He "humored" me by agreeing to do it, even though he seemed convinced that she simply has behavorial issues.

Yeah, not wanting to go potty may be a behavorial issue - it could also be a marker for AS I think. But he couldn't explain how a child could keep their stools soft for 5 years just because she has behavioral issues. And he had to sheepishly admit that the test had come back positive for Celiac's. I've been doing some reading and talking to other people with Celiac's and who have children with Celiac's, and those children exhibted the markers for AS and ADHD but showed remarkable improvement once their diets were made gluten-free. I'm hoping for the same thing with my granddaughter, IF (a really big IF) we can manage to go gluten-free for her sake.

The term "neurotypical" or "NT" is a term coined by an autistic person. Basically it is a term applied to persons having a typical or "average" neurobiology.

Note that I did not use the word "normal" because it is a term that is subjective, and poorly defined. Nobody really knows what describes a "normal" person. However, the neurobiologists are rather well versed in biostatistics and can definitely tell you what the typical person is like.

Furthermore, using the term "normal" can be degrading to some people, because it sets one group of people aside as acceptable, and all others as abnormal, and therefore unacceptable.

When discussing autism, ADHD, or whatever, if you refer to one group of people as "normal", you are, by default, calling all others "abnormal" (thus some kind of defect is implied).

It's a bit biased and egocentric (and cruel) to arbitrarilly declare people who are different than you as "abnormal", so the autistics use the term "neurotypical" to describe the average person, and terms like "on the spectrum" to describe their kind. By doing that , the autistics avoid the logical/moral trap of having a built in bias for, or against, various groups of humanity and thus avoid labeling themselves as "defective".

Me :D


hi speedo,

you know i did the test, and i scored 24 on the aspie, and 176 on the NT.

what is confusing me..is that what does it mean you are very likely Neurotypical? i mean i have no idea what that is, i tried to read about that and just didn't get it..sorry for my ignorance!

pls may you help me with some explanation and make it easier for me? :)

best regards

Based on what little I have read on the matter, I don't think there is a link between ADHD and Fibromyalgia nor is there a link between autism and fibromyalgia.

If someone has facts showing that this is not true please post them so that we can all be educted on the matter....


Me :D

I didn't actually take the quiz, I was wondering more about my granddaughter than about myself. I had been wondering about the connection between Fibromyalgia and ADHD and AS - so wasn't surprised to see that listed. I'd also wondered a little bit about a connection with Parkinson's and that was listed in the questions as well. Poor little bugger... her gramma has ADHD and I suspect that her daddy does to. Gramma and daddy are not related. Her gramma and her mommy both have Fibromyalgia and her daddy has Parkinsons. No wonder she's been having such a tough time, especially since starting Pre-K back in August.

However, another possible connection I've learned about is Celiac's Disease. Our family doctor didn't have the facilities to test for that, and I couldn't convince her mom to go to another doctor to get that test done. However, when the teacher said it was time to do some tests for her, and she tested as being quite a bit behind her classmates, even in gross motor skills... I took it on myself to get her into a doctor who could do the test for Celiac's. He "humored" me by agreeing to do it, even though he seemed convinced that she simply has behavorial issues.

Yeah, not wanting to go potty may be a behavorial issue - it could also be a marker for AS I think. But he couldn't explain how a child could keep their stools soft for 5 years just because she has behavioral issues. And he had to sheepishly admit that the test had come back positive for Celiac's. I've been doing some reading and talking to other people with Celiac's and who have children with Celiac's, and those children exhibted the markers for AS and ADHD but showed remarkable improvement once their diets were made gluten-free. I'm hoping for the same thing with my granddaughter, IF (a really big IF) we can manage to go gluten-free for her sake.

Based on what little I have read on the matter, I don't think there is a link between ADHD and Fibromyalgia nor is there a link between autism and fibromyalgia.

If someone has facts showing that this is not true please post them so that we can all be educted on the matter....


Me :D
From the link that you posted Speedo:


Give familial history of possible diseases related to the autism spectrum.
Select the first alternative that matches.

Parkinson <SELECT style="VISIBILITY: visible" name=parkinson> <OPTION value=0 selected>None</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Self</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Parent</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Grandparent</OPTION> <OPTION value=4>Sibling</OPTION> <OPTION value=5>Child</OPTION> <OPTION value=6>Uncle/Aunt</OPTION> <OPTION value=7>Cousin</OPTION></SELECT>

Alzheimer <SELECT style="VISIBILITY: visible" name=alzheimer> <OPTION value=0 selected>None</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Self</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Parent</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Grandparent</OPTION> <OPTION value=4>Sibling</OPTION> <OPTION value=5>Child</OPTION> <OPTION value=6>Uncle/Aunt</OPTION> <OPTION value=7>Cousin</OPTION></SELECT>

Factor V Leiden / Thrombophilia <SELECT style="VISIBILITY: visible" name=factorv> <OPTION value=0 selected>None</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Self</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Parent</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Grandparent</OPTION> <OPTION value=4>Sibling</OPTION> <OPTION value=5>Child</OPTION> <OPTION value=6>Uncle/Aunt</OPTION> <OPTION value=7>Cousin</OPTION></SELECT>

Hemochromatosis <SELECT style="VISIBILITY: visible" name=hfe> <OPTION value=0 selected>None</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Self</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Parent</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Grandparent</OPTION> <OPTION value=4>Sibling</OPTION> <OPTION value=5>Child</OPTION> <OPTION value=6>Uncle/Aunt</OPTION> <OPTION value=7>Cousin</OPTION></SELECT>

Cystic Fibrosis <SELECT style="VISIBILITY: visible" name=cftr> <OPTION value=0 selected>None</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Self</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Parent</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Grandparent</OPTION> <OPTION value=4>Sibling</OPTION> <OPTION value=5>Child</OPTION> <OPTION value=6>Uncle/Aunt</OPTION> <OPTION value=7>Cousin</OPTION></SELECT>

Rhematoid Arthritis <SELECT style="VISIBILITY: visible" name=arthritis> <OPTION value=0 selected>None</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Self</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Parent</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Grandparent</OPTION> <OPTION value=4>Sibling</OPTION> <OPTION value=5>Child</OPTION> <OPTION value=6>Uncle/Aunt</OPTION> <OPTION value=7>Cousin</OPTION></SELECT>

Fibromyalgia <SELECT style="VISIBILITY: visible" name=fibromyalgia> <OPTION value=0 selected>None</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Self</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Parent</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Grandparent</OPTION> <OPTION value=4>Sibling</OPTION> <OPTION value=5>Child</OPTION> <OPTION value=6>Uncle/Aunt</OPTION> <OPTION value=7>Cousin</OPTION></SELECT>

None of those things in thta questionaire are related to autism or ADHD. It is just someone collecting information, "data mining" on the internet. Perhaps they are trying to see if there is a connection?

Me :D

I said it was interesting because I've been wondering if there is a link between any of these syndromes and diseases myself and they are saying there may be a possible connection. Do you have any facts you can post that show that none of those things are related to Autism or Asperger's? Do you actually put any credence in the results of the questionaire if you discount those questions as well? If not, why did you share the link to the questionaire?

speedo, thanx so much for the expalantion, now i got it ;), you know, what i believe in life that : No one is normal. we as human beings, have many differents, and problems, some are hidden and some are obvious to others. Thus i believe we are people with a few problems to be treated, i guess all of us.

best regards :)

I'll put credence in the idea that there is a connection when I see evidence for it. I've not seen any evidence to that effect. The fact that a web page asled questions does not have any impact whatsoever.

The test itself is just a test of traits. It's not diagnostically meaningful for anything. The test authors will be the first to tell you that.

Does it matter why? I shared it because it was an alternative test.

Me :D




I said it was interesting because I've been wondering if there is a link between any of these syndromes and diseases myself and they are saying there may be a possible connection. Do you have any facts you can post that show that none of those things are related to Autism or Asperger's? Do you actually put any credence in the results of the questionaire if you discount those questions as well? If not, why did you share the link to the questionaire?

When I was a child, my mother taught me about tolerane. She would often say; "It takes all kinds to make a world." Indeed, it does. One of the often heard complaints of persons with aspergers syndrome is that they have a need for acceptance by the world around them and are not getting it. Instead they tell stories of being institutionalized, abused, and denied educational and employment opportunities; Because they are autistic.

From what I've seen thus far, people who have AS represent a group of bright, sensitive, and frequently gifted folks who very much wish to be understood.

Me :D


speedo, thanx so much for the expalantion, now i got it ;), you know, what i believe in life that : No one is normal. we as human beings, have many differents, and problems, some are hidden and some are obvious to others. Thus i believe we are people with a few problems to be treated, i guess all of us.

best regards :)

Hmmm, very interesting...

Your Aspie score: 130 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 65 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie


This is not a test to be taken seriously, it is merely a list of questions and possibilities, as it is with ANY online quiz/questionnaire. NOTHING beats the dx of a professional and I encourage all to continue to share any information they discover regarding any correlation between conditions.

Please remember that although some may not see the value in a post does not mean it's not beneficial OR gives someone the right to be antagonistic.

Thanks for the Quiz :)

Based on what little I have read on the matter, I don't think there is a link between ADHD and Fibromyalgia nor is there a link between autism and fibromyalgia.

If someone has facts showing that this is not true please post them so that we can all be educted on the matter....


Me :D
Hi, Speedo. Nadeau's book Women and ADHD has a section on the relationship between the limbic system, ADHD and fibromyalgia. It's the most technical part of the book yet and I'm still trying to understand it. If I reach a kernel that makes sense to me re: a relationship with fibromyalgia, I'll post it.

Incidentally, my test results came back 91/200 aspie and 117/200 nt, "mixed", and scored way above average on the AQ test. I've been reading Tony Atwood's book and definitely see a few Aspie traits in myself, but I suspect it comes from environment. Checking out some family history turned up close relatives with aspergers in my family, and autism in my in-laws. Who'dda thunk. You'd think someone would tell us kids at some point.

Hi, Speedo. Nadeau's book Women and ADHD has a section on the relationship between the limbic system, ADHD and fibromyalgia. It's the most technical part of the book yet and I'm still trying to understand it. If I reach a kernel that makes sense to me re: a relationship with fibromyalgia, I'll post it.

Incidentally, my test results came back 91/200 aspie and 117/200 nt, "mixed", and scored way above average on the AQ test. I've been reading Tony Atwood's book and definitely see a few Aspie traits in myself, but I suspect it comes from environment. Checking out some family history turned up close relatives with aspergers in my family, and autism in my in-laws. Who'dda thunk. You'd think someone would tell us kids at some point.
I don't think I can afford to buy that book, but it's interesting to learn that others are looking into this connection between ADHD and certain other conditions.

Gosh yeah, you'd think someone would have mentioned having those traits in the family gene pool.

well in my opinion the information available about Autism is to vague and not up to date and people our mis-informed, Reason why I say this is especially people with Aspergers has the capability and is the reason why there is programming, or science, or phsycology education available.

Our nervous system is so up to par that we can pretty much provide lots of detailed information about different areas with so much accuracy that we can and mostly like can provide information for our country if they would give us a chance. I mean really if people such as Einstein can provide the formula for light to our whole frieking country and even utilize that on the electronics that exist today.

The only way I believe we would get a chance of bringing new information to the table is if we got a website online (related to different topics) and then submitted it schools or something, who knows.

But just imagine if we all worked together as a online school to provide this information to the world the easiest way to do this is for everyone who has a website, check the websites section in this forum and link to our sites :0). Since we all know how the internet works we could do more then anyone else if we worked together on this. We all should bring our information from sites, our research in our area of interests so we can contribute to our country, With the internet brings you great possibility and incredible knowledge. :cool: