I better write this down before i get too tired. I tried an experiment
to quit drinking for two weeks and now i'm some uber insomniac.
(jesus this turned out long)

To the point. I want to ask everyone if they think i did anything that will
screw my chances of being properly diagnosed or medicated. If you have
the time, read over my eval and tell me what you think.

This is supposedly a full blown adhd eval:
first session - i spoke with the doctor while his intern listened for 1 hr.
Then he asked me some questions with an evaluation he was taking.
Second - i took an iq test and self survey similar to the one he took on me.
Third - i took an aptitude test
Fourth - next wed. is my conclusion.
(Didn't seem all that thorough to me.)

Possible trouble spots:

Questionnaires - I felt i was too conservative with my answers. I just
wanted a proper diagnosis and it was hard to clear my mind of what would
be the stereotypical adhd choices and answer honestly. I'm hoping this
didn't backfire. More often in the last month i've found myself in situations
that fit the most extreme answer available on the chart instead of the
so-so or moderate one that i put.

Thoroughness - I'm afraid i'm going to get misdiagnosed.

Childhood - Pretty well rounded childhood without a whole lot of add like
symptoms popping up until HS. This seems like it could be a huge factor in
the decision considering he mentioned it. What is my recourse if it's a
determining factor?

Substance abuse - On the questionnaire i answered a lot of alcohol
questions with at least the occasionally answer. Then came the part
where he asked me to talk about any past history with drugs. I was honest
and snowballed out everything from smoking pot at 14 to trying coke,
concluding with the fact that all i do now is drink.

He asked why i think i have adhd - well, besides all the infinite adhd
symptoms constantly screwing up my life? (not to mention the incredible
similarities between me and people i know diagnosed with it) In all my
experience i tried ritalin and it did exactly the opposite of what my friends
advertised it would do, so i started researching it. ADHD seemed to explain
why.

So my fear is that i either won't get diagnosed because of all this, or that if
i do, they won't put me on stuff that works well because of my history and
"potential for abuse". (which i can say is non-existent, but i probably fit
some stereotype now)

-Should i bring up the fact that i've gone stone cold sober? (3.5 weeks by next appt)

-What about just bring up that i've been reading on forums and understand
i sound like a "potential for abuse" candidate. Then assure them i'm not?

Then another part of me says, well they'll just think you are desperate and
definitely won't give you meds. So you should just leave it alone.

Didn't seem all that thorough to me


If I had to go through all this stuff be be diagnosed with ADHD I still wouldn't be diagnosed because I would have lost interest long before the end of all this jive.

Didn't seem all that thorough :confused: What were you expecting the Spanish Inquisition?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :faint:

mmmm...i dont discuss my diagnosis "test"
yours sounds like before you join the army,wow....i couldnt sit it either,sorry im no help to you here,just be yourself with your doc.

yeah, that's what i've been so far. Myself, and 100% honest.

The bulk of the test was two 50 question assesments and a 1 hr interview where i rambled. I just didn't feel enough was covered to rule out other disorders or rule in adhd. (Guess that's why i'm not a psychologist. Oh, and the iq/aptitude were required for school, not for diag)

acceptance, why don't you discuss the details of your test and would it be advised for me to do the same?

Normally there would be about 8 hours of testing.

(Mine was 2 hrs of interview and about 6 hrs of games and pen/paper, memory, design/picture/peg games, and computer screen/keyboard tests.)

You mention "intern", and to me that says "student" or "someone who is practicing" and chance for mistakes and oversights.

My mom was tested by students and it was useless testing. (They missed BIG deficits in her, and didn't give her the same tests I got. We have similar problems. They didn't have me/family in as a Collaborative Historian to help get information about her, etc.)

How much is this testing costing you? It is by PSychologists? Neuropsychologists?

Normally there would be about 8 hours of testing.

(Mine was 2 hrs of interview and about 6 hrs of games and pen/paper, memory, design/picture/peg games, and computer screen/keyboard tests.)


"Normally" . . . .I disagree Maybe there in Canada but not necessarily here in the US. Different countries are different, heck here in the US different doctor's are different.

Personally if I could go through 8 hours of testing I would NOT be ADD-predominantly hyperactive.


No way on God's green earth can I stay in one place that length of time, I still couldn't sit through 8 hours of testing not even on medications.Before Adderall my max sitting time was about ten minutes. Even with Adderall my max sitting time is one hour, after that I am wiggling on.

well, it's required for some things like testing or school weather. It just sucks to sit that long. Although having a laptop pretty much alleviates that now. My friend took his test and it was broken into two four-hour sessions with computer games and questions and such. that's all besides the point.

If i hadn't opted for academic accessability, (extended test time, testing alone, etc etc) the my test would have just included:
I. one hour interview and two page questionaire that the doc reads and i answer verbally.
II. 50 question self- questionaire
III. family history report filled out by parents.

Academic accessability added IQ and Acheivement.

The intern or whatever i think may be a graduate student. All she did was listen during his eval and administered the other tests to me. (eg. watch me take them) Not really much room for error in her work.

I scheduled all this through my school. If i was enrolled in the big univ. it would have been free through their in house program (utk). Since it was a local community college they refered me to the big mental health insitution here that works on a sliding fee. They seemed pretty confident in this guy i guess.

It's based on a sliding fee that can be as cheap as 15$ an hour, which i will most likley get (no income student). The UTK evaluation would have been slightly more expensive @ 200$ since i'm not enrolled.

I found it interesting that, when i mentioned the computer game style tests, he said he felt they were inaccurate and produced to many false positives. His argument was that a lot of people would fail those at 7 in the the morning. (the time they make you take it around here.)

Well, today was the day. They told me two things i already know. I'm smart and i have adhd. YAY! And apparently i did EVERYTHING wrong.

First they gave me some bull**** about how none of the psychiatrists in the building liked to prescribed medication to adults with adhd! The supposed reasoning was that since the adult has done OK with out medication so far, that there's no reason to put them on it now. It was also hinted that they don't even like the prospect of adults with adhd. After i fussed about this a bit they came out and said it:

I've been flagged in the system as high risk and potential for abuse! So pretty much no one will prescribe me meds. Not to mention that this will go into my official reports. Great, now my teenage drug use is down on paper somewhere.

I thought honestly was the best policy! I screwed up, i'm better now. I broke MY OWN drug habits without anyone else's help. Doesn't that say something to willpower and charactor right there? Apparently not.

So, you know who get's all the adderall they want? Someone who lies there *** off. I have friends that actively use drugs on a regular basis, some who are add and some who are, and BOTH are getting all the medication they want. (one guys doesn't even have add!!!)

This has been the biggest f-cking waste of 5 months. When i could have just gone into some crackpot psychologist and said. Hey i'm add, i know that 10mg adderal 3 times a day works fine for me, do it.

What a f-cked up system... :(

I live in Canada. I was diagnosed in 1996. My assessment was done by a knowledgeable psychiatrist with experience with adult ADHD. My first visit was a grueling 90 minutes of question after question from the doctor. At the time, I remember thinking what the heck does this have to do with anything, but later, and as I learned more about ADHD, I realized what the doctor was building with his questions. I brought my school report cards, but he didn't read them. There were no checklists or other tests. I went on a drug trial and saw the doctor again in a month. The second visit was an hour with more questions and observations by the doctor.

My son was diagnosed in 1998 by a psychologist over several visits which included checklists, aptitude tests, etc..

I feel both of our assessments were thorough and both professionals were experts about ADHD and very understanding.

Dude, relax a bit and analyze your situation.

You have been diagnosed, that's quite a big deal. It was a big pain in the a** I'm sure, as I know how it is from personal experience. Keep this in mind, with the actual diagnosis, written on paper, you might be able to go to just about any family doctor to get the right medication. Also, there are some new meds out right now that are very effective that are non-stimulant. My daughter just started taking Provisil, which is not as controlled as the stims and it works great - much easier to get a scrip for.

Another thing to bear in mind, when I started taking medication for my add, my urges to consume alcohol really decreased. You might find the same results with whatever medication you get. I think that is a common result of new found focus.

After all that you went through to get diagnosed, you shouldn't give up now. Keep your chin up.

thanks for the support :) I'm finally calm now. admins can edit out my self-bleeped language if they wish ;) It just drives me nuts to think that i can go down the street to another doctor, lie, and get better results.

One problem. My actual diagnosis, on paper, will come attatched with a history of substance experimentation. So it's as good as useless to me. I have to go start from scratch with another medical system, maybe through the school or something. And there's the whole 3-5 month waiting list thing with adhd evals.
Then there's the fact that i dont' have insurance. I'm a 24 year old healthy student who can't afford normal insurance and may not qualify for state insurance. Not to mention that it takes 90 days to find out and i started the process this afternoon. The only reason i got this at a discounted rate was through their in house insurance on a financial waiver. That being said, i don't have the ability to just walk down the street to another doctor, nor do i have my own PCP.
I'm just at my wits end and it feels like i'm back at square one. I'm angered by the wasted time more than anything.

I have read about provigil. My mother had some for a sleep problem a year ago. At that time, the drug would reach a peak effectiveness several doses in and then a steep curve in tollerance would form. Hopefully they've improoved it since then?

[quick break to review and think]

Ok. I'm thinking the quickest route to treatment is going to be to call around town tommorow and find a psychiatrist that works on a sliding fee. That way i avoide having to wait for insurance approval and i avoid the waiting lists of psychologists.

I am sorry you feel like a raw deal willpower. When i was tested I had the games, paper test, math test, memory of list, blocks, drawing an arrangement of geometrical shape and more. I also talked to the neuropsycholist for 2 hrs. I took my reportcards and anything from school.

I signed many forms to get information from other people, medical records. It took 5 months like your testing did, and they didnt know where to put me sothey diagnosed me Mild neurocognitive Disorder due to epilepsy. I am epilepstic and they didnt know where I fit in so that is the diagnose they gave me. I thik my testing was boggus, since I was exhausted at the time, and my psychologist says it make a huge differernce if you are tired as to your performance on the testing.

Willpower #1 Find some one who KNOWS ADD from a hole in the ground, that would be a start. If at all possible I would SAVE money so you can pay to go to a decent doctor.

My opinion is they may not be as up to date on thier ADD knowledge as possible.

First they gave me some bull**** about how none of the psychiatrists in the building liked to prescribed medication to adults with adhd! The supposed reasoning was that since the adult has done OK with out medication so far, that there's no reason to put them on it now. It was also hinted that they don't even like the prospect of adults with adhd. After i fussed about this a bit they came out and said it:


cec, special ed .org (http://www.cec.sped.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=4153)

Substance abuse, antisocial behavior, and even criminality are among the better-known problems of some adults with ADHD (Hechtman, Weiss, & Perlman, 1984). However, these issues are hardly universal, and may be more likely in some groups of patients. Poor social skills or deficits in self-awareness are also frequent


Pronounced difficulties may only emerge during higher education, or even later in the work world, when environmental demands become more complex. Often there is also a strong family history of ADHD, learning disabilities, or both. There is no definitive diagnostic test for ADHD, although standardized ADHD scales are extremely helpful in understanding current (and past) symptoms. Examining for comorbid psychiatric conditions and ruling out alternative psychiatric problems that can resemble ADHD (such as depression or anxiety disorders) is essential.


As is the case for children, the best treatment involves both drug and psychosocial interventions. Among drugs, stimulant medications, such as Ritalin, are usually tried first. Individuals who do not respond to stimulants, or who have comorbid substance abuse problems or depression, may be treated with antidepressants. Generally, medications are better at addressing inattention and hyperactivity than impulsivity. Comorbid illness, if present, affects the choice of drugs. Psychosocial treatment is also key.
***End Quote

~Bold and underlining mine~


One of the major problems is the past drug abuse and the fact you still drinking. Drinking may be seen as continued drug abuse, even though it is legal. Your next move is totally up to you.

8 hrs of testing??!? Who.. where?

Ok, I lie. If I put together all of the testing I ever did, sure it would come up to a couple of hours. But the testing I did wasn't for a diagnosis. They were all for learning assessments and things like that. Sure I did about 2 hrs of testing initally that strongly indicated to ADD, but the actual diagnosis itself was about.. oh an hour.

8 hrs of testing??!? Who.. where?

Ok, I lie. If I put together all of the testing I ever did, sure it would come up to a couple of hours. But the testing I did wasn't for a diagnosis. They were all for learning assessments and things like that. Sure I did about 2 hrs of testing initally that strongly indicated to ADD, but the actual diagnosis itself was about.. oh an hour.It is good practice to rule out any other causes of symptoms so these tests are a good thing.

One problem. My actual diagnosis, on paper, will come attatched with a history of substance experimentation. So it's as good as useless to me. I have to go start from scratch with another medical system, maybe through the school or something. And there's the whole 3-5 month waiting list thing with adhd evals.
Willpower101,

I could talk to my regular Dr. about meds now that I have been diagnosed and get meds. You can get a copy of your own medical records too, you know. You need to be aware of your addictive tendencies, but addiction is very common in ADHD. Read some of the books on ADHD by HallowelL and Ratey,for instance, they will be an eye opener. I found them at my local Barnes and Noble. Addictive tendencies are discused at length. You need to be as informed as possible, IMHO to get the best treatment.

It took me about 1 1/2 hours and a 90 min interview to get my diagnosis. Although it took a long time to find that Dr. to make a diagnosis.

And I agree with everything Stradivari said, I am quoting it again because I think it is right on target, including the message that you will feel less of an urge to drink alcohol, I also have seen people have less craving for cigarettes and gallons of coffee. And my own cravings for caffeinated soft drinks and too many carbs has gone completely away:

Dude, relax a bit and analyze your situation.

You have been diagnosed, that's quite a big deal. It was a big pain in the a** I'm sure, as I know how it is from personal experience. Keep this in mind, with the actual diagnosis, written on paper, you might be able to go to just about any family doctor to get the right medication. Also, there are some new meds out right now that are very effective that are non-stimulant. My daughter just started taking Provisil, which is not as controlled as the stims and it works great - much easier to get a scrip for.

Another thing to bear in mind, when I started taking medication for my add, my urges to consume alcohol really decreased. You might find the same results with whatever medication you get. I think that is a common result of new found focus.

After all that you went through to get diagnosed, you shouldn't give up now. Keep your chin up.

Thanks again. Yes, i am aware of my addictive tendencies, but on the flip side, i have very strong mental fortitude and even managed to quit smoking and control my drinking.

Right now the biggest problem is I don't have insurance or a doctor. I'm approoved for 90% covereage on care and meds ONLY through the sliding fee of the organization where this psychologist works, yet he says no psychiatrist in the building would be willing to treat me since i'm high risk. I left a message for him and his supervisor saying i'm unsatified with how my situation was handled and want to speak with the two psychiatrists myself.

There's another branch across town with a big building next to it that say Attention Decifit Center which i think may be part of the same organization. Monday i will find out and, if it is, have my case transfered over there.

I also managed to get in contact with a Professor at the university who studies adhd and has a private practice. He said the university clinic also works on a sliding fee. So as an alternative, i could go there for a fresh start.

I'm sure you all know how tough it is to stay on top of all this. My motivation usually lasts less than a day. I went all day friday completely forgetting to do any follow up phone calls. I have a habit of forgetting things for days or weeks at a time. Having this forum send me emails has been a great way to keep me on track.

Is it just me, or does everyone on this forum write small essays in each reply? lol. I keep reading my posts over and over to try to keep them short, on topic, and concise, but they always seem to grow huge! :)

Maybe you just have a lot to say. . . . . .

In all my
experience i tried ritalin and it did exactly the opposite of what my friends
advertised it would do, so i started researching it. ADHD seemed to explain
why.


Would you mind explaining a little more about what your friends advertised ritalin would do and how you found it to be.(as well as how adhd might explain why). I hope your dr is able to help you.
I had a "rediagnosis" appointment today. I felt as if I downplayed my symptoms when asked. It is just a reflex by now. Its how I cope everyday, hiding my add behavior. I can't even drop the act in the dr's office.

I just
wanted a proper diagnosis and it was hard to clear my mind of what would
be the stereotypical adhd choices and answer honestly


I'm actually experiencing the excact same. I'm afraid I'll get a wrong diagnosis for that same reason.. but I guess they take that in consideration when they make and evaluate the questionaires.

Hmmm in rrreality any one who knows any thing about ADD also knows we are "normally" poor self observers.

Is it just me, or does everyone on this forum write small essays in each reply? lol. I keep reading my posts over and over to try to keep them short, on topic, and concise, but they always seem to grow huge! :)Yes it seems to be a fairly normal thing around here and if you check the people who write the very long posts most are on high dose of stimulants.

Not trying to say that they shouldn't be taking them just an observation i made.

Yes it seems to be a fairly normal thing around here and if you check the people who write the very long posts most are on high dose of stimulants.

Not trying to say that they shouldn't be taking them just an observation i made.

I suppose this could also be looked at from an alternative viewpoint. Quite a few individuals with ADHD, especially Hyperactives and Combined, have a tendency to talk quite a bit. Perhaps that is translating to the forum as well?

Me, I'm usually quite short, but I have been known to write a long post every now and then.

Oh, yes, and we also have the topic...
My diagnosis probably took around 2-3 hours total between the visits it took to do so. Definitely not the 8 hours of mind-twisting tests. I think I probably completed every checklist in existence during the time, and was also interviewed beforehand. So I would think that willpower's diagnosis was comprehensive. After all, I've seen reports of people walking in and out in five minutes with a prescription in their hands.

Good point, HF. I was assessed for ADHD by a knowledgeable, caring, psychiatrist. When I mentioned that other people criticized me for building a clock when all they asked for was the time, he said, "Perhaps you just want to describe things in as much detail as possible." He said this with a smile and a positve tone of voice.

Yes that's true and it could well be the reason.

Stimulants can also have the 'side-effect' of making you talk lots which may also be what's happening in some cases too. I wouldn't consider this a bad thing however.

Good luck willpower

Uh, Chris, we're talking people with ADHD here. Stimulants help calm us down, not up. The reason people with hyperactivity are active is because they need to stimulate the slow parts of their brain. That's why we use stimulant meds - to rev up the slow parts of the brain so our bodies don't have to.

Chris, you're new here and there is so much you can learn by reading stuff posted in the forums. It's not wasted time and you'll know so much more about ADHD when you see your doctor.

I know a whole heap about ADHD. Some people with ADHD find that stimulants can speed them up a bit and make them more social/talkative. Although it's true that most find it slows them down...

The simple explanation you gave of the 'rev up' the brain isn't scientifically based and we do not yet understand how exactly stimulants help the ADHD brain.

The few who do find the stimulants speed them up and make them more talkative will notice this decrease the longer you're taking the medication.

I don't mean to be disrespectful

thanks

The simple explanation you gave of the 'rev up' the brain isn't scientifically based and we do not yet understand how exactly stimulants help the ADHD brain.
I don't mean to be disrespectfulNot at all, Chris. I may be mixing up information. Would you please site a source for this information? I would really like to get my facts straight. Thanks.

Show me a decent source for the revving up of the brain theory...? I think it may be hard to find a source that says we don't fully understand the effect of amphetamines on the ADD brain.

If you can find me a source that says exactly how stimulants help the ADD brain I'd love to read it. I'm sure dopamine plays a roll but why are some brains with ADD not lacking in dopamine at all then?

I do not disagree with treating ADD with stimulants because it appears to be the most effective way to relieve symptoms at the moment.

First they gave me some bull**** about how none of the psychiatrists in the building liked to prescribed medication to adults with adhd! The supposed reasoning was that since the adult has done OK with out medication so far, that there's no reason to put them on it now.I have to say I barely restrained myself from spitting Diet Coke all over the keyboard when reading that one. Every time I hear a remark from a supposed "medical professional" that I am sure is the dumbest, most ridiculous and misinformed that I could ever hope to hear....a new MENSA candidate comes along to prove me wrong.

Willpower...if you still check this thread.....please pass this question along to the doc....

What would you consider the definition of okay to be? Would it be spending 40 years of undiagnosed misery constantly being tortured with a high-functioning brain that has no execution skills to allow you to thrive to any potential? Would it be reaching middle-age, looking back and seeing 20+ years of working at jobs you hated because even though you scored 1300 on your SAT - you couldn't get through college because writing a simple term paper was comparable to climbing Everest? Or would it be an ugly divorce, years of hard core alcoholism, and a suicide attempt serious enough to have you placed under 48 hour watch at a state institution. Maybe OK in their eyes is to be- at quickly approaching middle age - finally getting diagnosed and medicated properly and learning that even though you are okay now, your entire young adulthood -that you can never get back - was destroyed by an unchecked chemical imbalance. Which part of that would he/she define as okay because if it is characterized that way my reality must be more skewed than I thought because I would tend to characterize it - especially since I lived it - as the sixth circle of Hell.

Anyone who has taken the Hippocratic Oath and has bothered to do even cursory research into the affliction of which they advertise to be a specialist would never rule out medication as part of the treatment plan for a young adult diagnosed with ADHD. And in attempt to inject some dark humor into this...let me see if I have this straight....you live on a college campus, are going to a campus facility and have been ruled out based upon prior drug experimentation??? Shocking!!! I'm surprised they aren't already prepping you to be the subject of their groundbreaking medical review writeup exploring the rarity of a college student experimenting with substances. (Extreme sarcasm very much intended).

As someone that has already walked through the fire I ask you to do the following...

1. Do as much research as you can about substance abuse and ADHD. Then do as much research as you can about the effect stimulant meds tend to have on addicts who discover they have ADHD and finally get treated (Hint: I used to throw back Jack like it was iced tea.....one month of Adderall turned me into a complete teetollar with no more behavior modification necessary). Then lastly - research the statistics of reformed addicts and their preponderance to abuse stimulant meds (Hint: they RARELY ever do). Shockingly enough...when the addict gets treated for ADHD, they no longer feel the need to self-medicate. Simple logic you would think huh??? Evidently NOT simple enough.

2. Become an ADHD expert...read everything in print you have time to about the condition (just make sure it is well-documented and reputable). When you hear BS...produce said material and ask for a credible explanation.

3. AND MOST IMPORTANT. Do whatever you can with the resources you have to take control of your life and your future. Do not let some quasi-professional clinic flunky, who out of moral indignation, lack of information or plain out laziness be the gatekeeper for your future. Do NOT be in the position of looking back on 20 years of a train-wreck you could have prevented.

After all it may have the tendency to make you a tad bitter ;)

tlv822, I like your style. Keep 'em coming.

tlv822, I like your style. Keep 'em coming.
Glad you enjoyed. The words tend to come easily with the material they just keep on giving us.

It's a smorgasboard all right. Nice to meet you.

The simple explanation you gave of the 'rev up' the brain isn't scientifically based and we do not yet understand how exactly stimulants help the ADHD brain.The discussion about theta waves on another thread reminded me of this thread.

From:
http://www.causeof.org/brainwaves.htm#ThetaTypesFront

Too Much Theta

"People with ADD/ADHD [inattentive ADD/ADHD, as opposed to other types of ADD such as overfocused] exhibit too little Beta (thinking) activity and too much Theta(dreaming) activity. This is the classic inattention for ADD.

With ADHD, hyperactivity keeps people from falling asleep. In essence, the person is combatting the high Theta activity and keeping themselves aroused (by increasing their Beta activity)."

Biofeedback Training: ADD/ADHD and Biofeedback (http://www.biofeedback1.com/add1.html)