but i was watching a show on evolution the other day and it got me thinking...

ive noticed that many with ADD end up breeding or marrying or having kids with others who have ADD and have ADD children and even those with ADD who marry and have kids some of thier children have ADD

is it possible that somewhere far far down the road that our brains could become so completely different we could become another race or speacies*sp?* and i mean like talking millions of years... assuming we dont fry our selfs with global warming or nuke each other to death


this is just a discussion purly science nothing to do with my personal ideas or beliefs

so lets keep it that way please

People do say that more and more people have ADD every year...

but could this be evolution, over diagnosing or just finding out that lots of people had ADD and didn't know about it?

I like to think that it is something like evolution because then there is nothing "wrong" with us. Were just another type of brain. If that makes sense to anyone :rolleyes:

That would be funny!

We've discovered a new species... the ADDer!

i wouldnt think so if that were even a possibiltiy it would have happened already

The research I've read suggests that ADHD is likely to involve dominant genes. i.e. If one parent has it, half the kids will. If both parents have it all the kids will and if no parent has it none of the kids will.

If it involves a combination of genes, it'll be more complicated than that.

But regardless, the genetic correlation is very high in a lot of research done on this.

you mean recessive genes?

my understanding is that add traits would have been valuable itn the past, although no one would have known what it was. and that add traits have only become apparent because of the artificial stucture and routine of modern idustrial and post industrial societies. of course none of this can be proven but i read someone hypothesizing this somewhere.

if true this suggest that add would have been favorable for survivial until recently. now society has evolved to a point where add attributes are ineffecient.

you mean recessive genes?
No, I do mean dominant genes. I messed up my explanation though. If each parent has ADD but each carries only one and not two ADD genes, then 3 out of 4 children (and not all as I indicated) would have ADD. If one parent has 2 ADD genes, then all kids would have it.

my understanding is that add traits would have been valuable itn the past, although no one would have known what it was. and that add traits have only become apparent because of the artificial stucture and routine of modern idustrial and post industrial societies. of course none of this can be proven but i read someone hypothesizing this somewhere.

if true this suggest that add would have been favorable for survivial until recently. now society has evolved to a point where add attributes are ineffecient.I still think ADD traits are valuable. But the way we educate kids all the same way and the diminishing amount of labor intensive jobs makes it much less valuable than it used to.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Athletes have ADD; seems like a fitting "employment".

People discuss this r/t Autism too. Nerd parents have more autistic spectrum offspring than "normies" do.

Apparently around places like MIT, the Silicon Valley, CA and Microsoft-land, WA, the autism spectrum rates are higher...

People discuss this r/t Autism too. Nerd parents have more autistic spectrum offspring than "normies" do.

Apparently around places like MIT, the Silicon Valley, CA and Microsoft-land, WA, the autism spectrum rates are higher...If nerd parents hanging out around mit and cambridge are college educated and therefore postponed having children until their early to mid thirties as is the national trend around the country, then higher autism rates would most likely be a function caused by postponed childbearing. there is a direct correlation betweeen the age of the mother and the likelyhood of autism in their offspring.

when fact checking after my previous post, (a little backwards, i know) it seems that the fathers age also plays a role in autism rates. also, it seems that there is some controversy regarding what if any effect age plays although there is a definite rise in autism rates in children of older parents. the info i just looked up mentioned parents having children over the age of forty, so while the rates may climb throughout the thirties i could not confirm that just now. however it seems the significant jump in autism rates begin when the parents are closer to forty.

something i found that people may find interesting


http://www.thomhartmann.com/hunters_and_farmers.shtml

I think its pretty possible....

However.....

I DO think that the idea of "ADD phenomon" is HIGHLEY linked to how society pressures children...

This is how I understand it...

That the stress of ADD, and eveything else, etc, etc, can shrink the hippocampus in the brain,

Society is demanding more and more from young children, takeing away more and more recesses, and trying to cram in more, and more information,

Is it possible that that kind of stress on a child can shrink the hippocampus?

Resulting in ADD later in life?

Is our society Effecting the changes that we are seeing in the number of people with this "disorder"??

Bleh, this didn't come out right....but I hope you guys got the idea,

http://www.thomhartmann.com/damagedhunters.shtml

also after reading that im starting to really think... those of us with ADD grow up in a very troubled time for our "type" of people and a lot of us die or end up in prison have addictions to a lot of things such as cigs or alcohol and are very damaged as kids because of how much we get yelled at for being different... idk just thinking.. very frustrating... want to do something but what is there to do?

Any good at writeing revs?

You could try to publish something?

"A childhood in the ADHD mind: A personal story"

Eh?

something i found that people may find interesting


http://www.thomhartmann.com/hunters_and_farmers.shtmlTHANK YOU!! This theory makes utterly beautiful sense to me. I just wanted to interject that before a few other people catch wind of this thread...and expound upon the "evolution" theories.

I believe that we are definitely human, just a different type, not another breed at all. I will be vehemtly disagreed with at some point, as I have been in the past, But I really like the Hunter Brain idea. Makes sense with my own personal gene pool being what it is. All of my people were Tribal Warrior types.

Hmm.......I'd come up with something similar myself in a roundabout way. Nice to see it postulated in print.

There is some support for the theory that ADD is genetic and you need the DRD4 - 7 alleles gene. Therefore yes, ADDers will pass on their ADD. I guess if it is a dominant gene then the chances of ADD becoming more prevalent which it seems to be is feasible. I disclaim any expertise in genetics.

Actually if one parent has the genetic gene for ADD and it is recessive {I believe this to be the more accurate term} then it would work some thing like

1 child would have ADD

2 children would not necessarily display the ADD traits but would carry the genes for it.

1 child would not have ADD traits nor would they carry the genes.

This holds true if I remember my 8th grade science class correctly and I will admit it has been a while sense I have been in the 8th grade.

If ADD is a dominate gene one of the carriers would also display the traits. . . .how ever one would also have to consider weather or not the nuerotypical gene of the other parent is dominate or recessive. Some traits tend to be be dominate while other recessive. . . .judging by the fact that three of my mom's four children have a clinical diagnosis of ADD I would venture to guess in my own family ADD is a dominate genetic trait.

everyone that i know that has ADD has both parents that have ADD. I believe it is recessive. My mom is inattentive add and my dad add combined. Im hyperactive, and both my brothers are inattentive one more so then the other.

Any good at writeing revs?

You could try to publish something?

"A childhood in the ADHD mind: A personal story"

Eh?lol sounds good to me


... on a seprate note.. would be interesting... an all ADD or mostly ADD culture and society? seems like that would be really fun and entertaining:faint: :faint: not to mention A MILLION TIMES less stressful and prob less war :)

The Hunter theory makes sense to me. My mother has inattentive ADD, so does my sister, my brother and I have ADHD. Apparently my grandfather had ADHD as well. My father isn't ADD, but I am 99% sure he's Asperger's. My mother refers to him as "annoyingly functional." The house was always chaotic growing up-- piles of stuff everywhere, everyone was always hyperfocused on some sort of weird project. We had pigs in the house, goats in the basement, and my father was generally holed up inventing something in the garage. I always knew that we were all ADD and ADHD but no one was medicated so nobody ever thought much of it. I did not learn until I was an adult that much of the world believes that organization, being on time, cleaning and finishing things are important. I still have trouble remembering that I should do these things or comprehending why it would occur to anyone to do them.

That said, my entire family is very gifted with animals and experiences a strong connection with them. I think in pictures as animals do and am thus very attuned to their body language/moods. I can take 5 dogs to the city dog park, keep an eye on all of them and scan the surrounding area for any potential dangers (ie. dogs that my dogs will fight with), at the same time. I can also walk a dog once and know which dogs it will get along with. I have no idea how I can do this, but I think that my high level of distractability alerts me instantly to any approaching danger and gives me the ability to scan a large area at once without focusing on any particular thing. My friends and clients can never quite grasp how I can do something like this since I have "ADHD." I tell them that the only reason I can is because I have it. I am so distractable that I don't tune anything out, hence I can pick up on things that someone who can focus won't. Does this make sense? I always think that being ADHD makes me more "animalistic" in a way, as the hunter way of thinking/functioning is more aligned with the way that wild animals must in order to survive.

it makes total sence i also feel very animalistic which thank you is a really perfect way for how i usually see my self for some odd reason but then again perhaps its not so odd after all

t makes total sence i also feel very animalistic which thank you is a really perfect way for how i usually see my self for some odd reason but then again perhaps its not so odd after all

While I enjoy animals my aminalistic behaviors are not some thing I should write about on a family friendly forum.



Because in order to "enforce" the rules I have to follow them lets go here . . . .

Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Related To Advantageous Gene (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/01/020109074512.htm)

Our data show that the creation of the 7R allele was an unusual, spontaneous mutation, which became an advantage for humans," Moyzis said. "Because it was an advantage, the gene became increasingly prevalent. This is very different from other genes that predispose to genetic disorders, where the mutations are detrimental. We believe this helps explain why a disorder with such a strong genetic association is so common today."
***End Quote


Evidence of positive selection acting at the human dopamine receptor D4 gene locus (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/1/309)

Associations have been reported of the seven-repeat (7R) allele of the human dopamine receptor D4 (DRD4) gene with both attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder and the personality trait of novelty seeking. This polymorphism occurs in a 48-bp tandem repeat in the coding region of DRD4, with the most common allele containing four repeats (4R) and rarer variants containing 2-11. Here we show by DNA resequencing/haplotyping of 600 DRD4 alleles, representing a worldwide population sample, that the origin of 2R-6R alleles can be explained by simple one-step recombination/mutation events. In contrast, the 7R allele is not simply related to the other common alleles, differing by greater than six recombinations/mutations. Strong linkage disequilibrium was found between the 7R allele and surrounding DRD4 polymorphisms, suggesting that this allele is at least 5-10-fold "younger" than the common 4R allele. Based on an observed bias toward nonsynonymous amino acid changes, the unusual DNA sequence organization, and the strong linkage disequilibrium surrounding the DRD4 7R allele, we propose that this allele originated as a rare mutational event that nevertheless increased to high frequency in human populations by positive selection.
***End Quote

Which could make a nice argument for those who see ADD as a sign of new evolution as opposed to the hunter/gather theorist who say ADD is due to old evolution.

Because I have participated in several discussions in this matter I will take this opportunity to back up the mention of ADD possibly becoming more prevalent as opposed to less prevalent as well as how this could be happening.

When I was growing us some 20 years ago we took pictures then we put the film in a envelope and sent it off to be developed. The length of time between picure taking and actual picture development took four to six weeks. Today if one actually uses a camera that needs film the process between film developing and picture development takes about an hour. For those of us who use digital cameras we can take a picture hook the camera up to our computer and have a printed hard copy of our picture in about five minutes. A rather ADD development I say. {all puns intended}

I remember ordering stuff out of a magazine and it could take eight to ten weeks for delivery , if the company was in the US. If it was from another country you could be talking three months. I ordered some stuff for my dog from Amazon.com the item which was being shipped from way up north around New York took five days. Gary ordered a tractor part from England and complained it took for ever to get here. Twenty-first century forever is about three weeks. . . . .where 1975 forever was three months.

Isn't impatience an ADD tendency.

Short attention span easily board. When I was growing up telephone were telephones with cords. Twenty years later a telephone with a cord is museum material because todays phones take pictures, access the Internet, play music, be an alarm clock. A rater ADD invention if you ask me. . .

We as a society felt it was normal to work the same job for twenty five thirty years, now days it is almost un-heard of, even companies don't remain the same company for twenty-five years any more without going out of business.

When I was growing up we had three TV channels {if the wind was blowing right} all of which quit transmitting at 12 midnight on week days and 2:00am week ends. Today one can choose from hundreds of stations and ending transmission happens only if the station catches on fire or suffers from some natural disaster.

The Internet can switch subjects at the speed of hyperactive ADD and can be used to address several subjects at once {presently I have five browsers open on this subject alone} and have another open on my e-mail and another on the weather channel.

When I was a child if you wanted to know what the weather was going to be in New York and one lived in Texas you would have to catch the News or call the national weather service in New York all I do now is get on my computer and I can get the actual radar and temperature readings that are no more than ten minutes old.

I spent most of my day monitoring the weather and advising Gary of raod and business closures all from the chair that sits in from of my computer.P{while doing laundry washing dishes and walking the dog}

We don't drive across country here in the US any more we fly across it.

I remember when long distance calls were restricted to special occasions like birthday and holidays because they were expensive now we simply wait for those any time minutes on our cell phone / portable computer/camera/alarm clock . . . . .and it cost no more than our monthly cell phone bill. . . .keeping track of time due to the expense of long distance calls not an ADD friendly activity.

So you want to know what an ADD world would look like simply walk out the front door unless you are closer to the inattentive variety and simply can not find the motivation then you can simply flip around on the 300 channels your television has to offer or log onto the Internet. . . . .new flash guys we already live an an ADD world that is becoming more ADD every day. . .although I will admit is is hard to really determine if world is more ADD because there are more ADDers in it or if the world's fast pace multi-tasking environment is simply producing more ADDers.




Oh and back to the animals those who reproduce most successfully do so impulsively, or compulsively {the ADD way} .

As you can tell by now I have had this discussion several times before which leading me to believe those who feel ADD is where evolution is heading may or my not be right but by the looks of things this approach is far from delusional.

So no this would NOT be too far out there. . . . . .this is a valid preponderance {IMHO}

Society is demanding more and more from young children, takeing away more and more recesses, and trying to cram in more, and more information,

Is it possible that that kind of stress on a child can shrink the hippocampus?

Resulting in ADD later in life?


I really doubt this one. Take a good look at the children in say, Japan, for example. The pressure on Japanese kids is WAY more intense than it is in the states. I'm not sure of the exact statistics, but ADD is also WAY less common there. Keep this in mind though, Japan is an island that, for thousands of years, has had an isolated gene pool.

I'm not sure of the exact statistics, but ADD is also WAY less common there

POssibly because they do not acknowledge it. I wouldn't have a learning disorder if it wasn't acknowledged as such I would simply be considered stupid.

Besided you are correct in stating . . . .


Keep this in mind though, Japan is an island that, for thousands of years, has had an isolated gene pool.


Some where between the two there is an answer. . . .