So, although at the risk of sounding like a broken record (ive posted in joy whenever i try a new med and it seems like a panache, only to find out after the initial period that it wasnt what i wanted), I will say that I believe that desoxyn (the final med i hadnt tried) is going to change my life. I figured i'd share my stimulant story to contribute my wide variety of experiences with adhd drugs.

Up until now i had only had good results with adderall - it was the only one that gave me enough focus - it was the only med that allowed me to really get in the "zone", and tolerate classes, etc. However, it sort of forced me into the zone all the time, and really hindered conversations and social interactions, thinking through complex tasks, and multitasking. I had tried dosages between 10-30mg/day usually spread out over 2-3 doses. I couldnt however, take them at night because i didnt want to be a zombie around my family. Adderall also split up a really good relationship because i simply couldnt feel any emotions. I thought that i would be stuck with it forever, especially after trying every other adhd stimulant on the market with the exception of focalin sr and finding them all to be inferior in terms of focus. Unfortunately adderall was also causing rapid heartbeat, rebound insomnia when i didnt take 3 doses a day, and some serious anxiety, not to mention i havent taken the initiative to go out and do new things or make new friends in approximately 3 years.

I tried adderall xr which was a bit smoother than the regular adderall but i disliked the fact that it would get stronger in the afternoons as it built up in my bloodstream ( i preferred a higher dose in mornings followed by decreasing doses as the day went on). It also lasted 12+ hours and prevented me from getting any meaningful exercise done due to muscle tension and increased hr and bp.

I tried dexedrine, which made me socially manic and pretty stimulated, a nice change from the zombification and sleepy focus that adderall caused. I tried barr and mallinkrodt at doses up to about 30mg a day (split into 3 doses). Dexedrine made me irritable with people at times, and physically and mentally antsy (for lack of a better word) -- i was able to focus but i kept switching my focus, and couldnt find satisfaction in doing a single task at a time.

Next i tried daytrana, which was really quite different than my amphetamine experiences. I had what seemed like endless physical energy, and i felt the satisfied feeling i had gotten with adderall (basically an ability to be content), however, it didnt really do jack for my focus, even at dosages up to 30mg patch. Didnt notice any side effects, but the withdrawal/rebound after discontinuing it was the worst i had ever experienced from any adhd med (ridiculous irritability, sadness, and jitteriness)

Focalin XR was next, which was similar to daytrana for me, but it didnt have as much of a physically energized profile as daytrana, and again didnt really help my focus. I kept feeling the need to change tasks.

Finally i tried desoxyn starting last week. (I'm gradually ramping up in dose by 5mg a week up to 20mg a day, 10 2x/day) Overall, i would say it combines the best features of adderall and dexedrine, and it's smoother than either of them as well. I have the ability to get into a 'zone' if i want, and focus on things, but i'm not forced to zone out all the time like i was with adderall. I also have my old sociability back, i'm noticing i'm able to make and keep plans, organize tasks, and it also gives me the energy i need to actually finish things (unlike adderall). It's much more restful than dexedrine or ritalin. I dont feel compelled to be moving or doing things, but i dont feel as sedated as I was on adderall. So far, there have been absolutely ZERO! side effects!. I dont have adrenaline rushes or fast heartbeat, muscle tension or anxiety (my worst side effect with adderall and daytrana). I feel so normal again!!! The only downside i have noticed so far is that i have a bit of insomnia when it wears off, and i also feel sort of unexplainably sad and i feel like the world is really weird during the last hour or 2 of my day, late at night after my dose has worn off. Im thinking of eventually switching to 3x a day dosing in order to sleep better and avoid this effect though.

I'm ready to finally be 'normal' again! I have so many plans for this fall, and I have gotten more tasks done around the house in the past week than i have so far all summer! This med should definitely be part of first line treatments. I mean, come on, it has no side effects!!.

Let me know if you have any questions, and please share your thoughts!

A few questions of my own. do you think I'll gain 'tolerance' to desoxyn and it will eventually turn me into a zombie again like adderall did? Also, do you think that having had it prescribed once, I will be able to continue getting it prescribed when i move away again for grad school or will i have to spend a year trying all the other meds again with a new psychiatrist or will they just jump on the desoxyn boat right away? Also, anyone know anything about the potential for long term damage (like dopamine transporters or whatnot) due to methamphetamine being so potent and being more thoroughly absorbed into the brain than regular amphetamine. Is this a risk for people with adhd using desoxyn? I couldnt help but notice that the recreational dose listed at least on one website (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_dose.shtml) nearly the same as the dose i would be taking. (25-30mg a day). How is this safer than street meth?


And, if you were able to read this entire post, congratulations (sorry it's so long)

"especially after trying every other adhd stimulant on the market with the exception of focalin sr"

"Focalin XR was next, which was similar to daytrana for me"

You contadict yourself here. I sense somrthing odd about this thread.

doah, i meant IR, not SR. somehow i was thinking "short release", hah. i meant instant release.

Do you ever feel sedated on Desoxyn? My doc prescribed it to me last week (I wrote the thread right before this one about my experience).

Since I get too sedated on Desoxyn, I plan to use it when my ADHD gets in the way of my relationship especially when I'm highly irritable, anxious and picking a fight with my boyfriend only to avoid boredome etc.

As for the mental focus and alertness that I need for work, Desoxyn is not for me.

It does give me so much less side effects than dex and ritalin so I will not give up on this med just yet.

"Since I get too sedated on Desoxyn"
--I can't understang this-SEDATED from the most potent ATS (amphetamine type stimulant) there is available?

I wish you could explain how the sedation manufests?

I have taken Ritalin, and Dexedrine had me going. I have read Desoxyn is the most efficious medication for hard-out Narcoleptics, so how can script methamphetamine make you few folk sedated? it is after all the same compound which abusers stay up on for days on end.

I just don't get it?

Probably the same way I become mildly sedated by dexedrine, attention. It seems to happen among ADDers and its not uncommon. For the purposes of this thread I honestly don't think it much matters why this happens for some of us.

Man I can't touch any of the methylphenidate meds. Like hitting me with a tranquilizer dart. Indeed a strange phenomenon about stimulants.


J

I have the same expierences with stimulents and sadation.... When I was on adderall it would actually put me to sleep and the same with coffie and a few other stimulent drugs... Dex is the only one that doesnt but it does make me very relaxed...I know people without adahd that take stimulents and it does the exact oppisite to them....When I had surgery and was prescribed perks they made me want to run a mile while it makes a lot of people want to sleep....

"I can't understang this-SEDATED from the most potent ATS (amphetamine type stimulant) there is available?"

Attention, Desoxyn-being medically supervised/monitered, methamphetamine hcl is indeed the most potent ATS, however for some folks who have truely ADD/HD disorders which control their lives, it seems to control their disorder well.

I had to stop Dex as it made me too sleepy and lethargic at 20mgs. The first time i was treated with it (at only one 5mg IR tab), it made me fall into a deep sleep, and caused unsatisfactory sedation.

The Doc treated me instead with a higher dose of Methylphenidate. Norvatis brand was quite satisfactory at 20mgs T.I.D, however upon this becoming replaced by a generic i required nearly double this (120mgs-2, 20mg SR T.I.D)-much to my Docs dismay and suffering on my part- to have any sembelence of what regular folks take for granted.

However the struggle continues.

I wish we severly affected folks here downunder had the treatment options you have in the states.

What do you mean by most potent amphetamine type stimulant?

dexamphetamine is a more potent psychostimulant for rats than dexmethamphetamine

I don't find it suprising that some are sedated by various stimulants(including desoxyn)

"I don't find it suprising that some are sedated by various stimulants(including desoxyn)"

I totally agree. When i was trialed on Dex, my first 5mg dose put me to sleep.

Let me clarify.

I was just relaying what my Doc had told me (he specialises in addiction medicine) and treats people with substance use/abuse issues in a treatment centre.

he gave me an analogy concerning the Methylphenidate medication he treats my condition with saying "Methylphenidate is like aspirin compared to Meth"

I think he was refering to the street form which addicts use/abuse, not the pharmaceutical medicine which some here find quite satisfactory.

Hope this clears things up. if not feel free to comment.

he gave me an analogy concerning the Methylphenidate medication he treats my condition with saying "Methylphenidate is like aspirin compared to Meth"

that's such a horrible smilie, i wouldn't repeat it if I were you ;)

I think he was refering to the street form which addicts use/abuse, not the pharmaceutical medicine which some here find quite satisfactory.I agree and would like to remind anybody who happens to be curious that this thread is about legally prescribed stimulants. Use and abuse of illegal street drugs should not come into the picture.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled on topic--for ADDers :D--thread. Thanks!

HA? why the issue?

He has seen people managed on Methylphenidate for, in some cases 20-40 years living like regular people.

He has yet to see, or treat, ANY street meth users doing so, and he has been in addiction medicine since the 1960's.

My comment was NOT directed at you, alert, it was merely a moderator note to keep this thread on topic :)...these bothersome moderator notes do pop up from time to time, you know.

No sweat Crazyfeet.

All anyone here wants is to be well and get on with life, whether that involves no treatment, being treated with Aspirin or anything else which gives folk here the chance to enjoy family, work, social activities.

I would like to think we are all in this together, and are supportive of each others situations.

Respect and Peace!

"Since I get too sedated on Desoxyn"
--I can't understang this-SEDATED from the most potent ATS (amphetamine type stimulant) there is available?

I wish you could explain how the sedation manufests?

I have taken Ritalin, and Dexedrine had me going. I have read Desoxyn is the most efficious medication for hard-out Narcoleptics, so how can script methamphetamine make you few folk sedated? it is after all the same compound which abusers stay up on for days on end.

I just don't get it?Sedated to the point where next time I talk to my pharmacist I will suggest putting a sticky label on the Desoxyn bottle that says "caution when driving". It's written down on the specs sheet but no sticker on the bottle.

Physical sedation is what I'm talking about here...I wanted to sleep and couldn't get work done.

I actually would feel more comfortable driving on Valiums than Desoxyn (of course that's just a comparison for explanation's sake...don't drive on ANYTHING sedating).

Dex or Ritalin don't sedate me however, just Desoxyn. Now mentally, that's another story. Dex calms my thoughts.

I'm no chemist so I don't know why Desoxyn makes me want to sleep. But this sure just goes to show how the words "uppers" and "downers" shouldn't be thought of as just black or white. Chemicals and our brains are way too complicated for anyone assume simple reactions with medications.

"

Originally Posted by attention
"Since I get too sedated on Desoxyn"
--I can't understang this-SEDATED from the most potent ATS (amphetamine type stimulant) there is available?

I wish you could explain how the sedation manufests?

I have taken Ritalin, and Dexedrine had me going. I have read Desoxyn is the most efficious medication for hard-out Narcoleptics, so how can script methamphetamine make you few folk sedated? it is after all the same compound which abusers stay up on for days on end.

I just don't get it?"


I think Atention is somewhat mistaken. Street Methylamphetamine, AKA Crank is smoked in a pipe or injected IV in large amounts causing extreme euphoria.

The few folk here who are being medically treated with Desoxyn tablets (Methylamphetamine-yes, but a medicine) seem to be quite satisfied with their management with less SE's than any other meds and more satisfactory results.

Blame damn media hysteria, but Desoxyn medicine and bathtub meth are quite different-Attention.

"

Originally Posted by attention
"Since I get too sedated on Desoxyn"
--I can't understang this-SEDATED from the most potent ATS (amphetamine type stimulant) there is available?

I wish you could explain how the sedation manufests?

I have taken Ritalin, and Dexedrine had me going. I have read Desoxyn is the most efficious medication for hard-out Narcoleptics, so how can script methamphetamine make you few folk sedated? it is after all the same compound which abusers stay up on for days on end.

I just don't get it?"


I think Atention is somewhat mistaken. Street Methylamphetamine, AKA Crank is smoked in a pipe or injected IV in large amounts causing extreme euphoria.

The few folk here who are being medically treated with Desoxyn tablets (Methylamphetamine-yes, but a medicine) seem to be quite satisfied with their management with less SE's than any other meds and more satisfactory results.

Blame damn media hysteria, but Desoxyn medicine and bathtub meth are quite different-Attention.

Here's another thing, the people that are using methamphetamine on the streets have not been diagnosed with ADHD, so it's probably effecting them in a much different way

And another point:
What is being sold on the street as methamphetamine, is no in no way guaranteed to be solely methamphetamine, or even be methamphetamine at all, so anyone referring to 'street meth' can not even compare it to Desoxyn, because 'street meth' is just a slang term with no standards and regulation at all;
so any Dr.(or anyone else for that matter) trying to compare the chemical d-methamphetamine(the active ingreident in Desoxyn) with what he's seen people who say that've bought and used 'meth' off the street is just talking for the sake of talking and doesn't truely believe this himself, and if he does believe this then he doesn't know the truth of the matter.

Even if pure d-methamphetamine were being sold on the street (without any inactive cuts), no one buying it would have an analytical scale to weigh out 5mg increments and then eat the same 25mg dose every day (as you've said they'd inject or smoke it)

Well 3 months in, i'm now taking desoxyn in 12.5mg and then 7.5mg in the morning and afternoon, and it's working real well. It seems like adderall forced me to concentrate where as desoxyn "allows" me to concentrate. Anyone else get this? I also feel much more mentally relaxed, which sometimes leads me to question whether i'm on top of all of my responsibilities (i always am, i just feel like i breeze through them instead of being super zoned in on getting every little thing done like on adderall). Physically though i find i'm less settled down and more jittery than i was on adderall (which put me to sleep from time to time), however it's not an unpleasant stimulant-feeling jitteryness. The best part of it all is that my level of anxiety and resulting obsessiveness (ie: hyperfocusing on a source of anxiety) has gone drastically down. That was a particular problem for me on adderall. However it seems strange once in a while that i'm not living a life of ups and downs like i used to. I think i was so used to being inadequately treated by my old meds that I have never really lived life where i had constant smooth concentration! It feels boring living a life that isnt defined by constantly searching for a source of stimulation.

Anyone else have thoughts on any of this?

Desoxyn allows me to be calm, cool, and collected.

I used to self medicate via bulemia nervosa for 19 years - then desoxyn came into my life and it stopped immediately

I tried everything to stop my eating disorder - inpatient treatment - all sorts of drugs - everything - I was bingeing and puring up to 15 times a day (amazing I got anything done) the Dr. said that released the same chemicals that the desoxyn does - but the desoxyn doesn't errode my throat or teeth!

It really amazes me.

It also allows me to realize when some of my other issues are coming up like OCD and trichitolamania - and it allows me to refocus those obseive thoughts and actions to more useful tasks. For example when I start to pull things including my hair - I quickly realize it and go outside and pull weeds instead - as where prior to Desoxyn I would go into almost a hypnotic trance and not even realize what I was doing.

I am really thankful I found a Dr. willing to prescripe it to me.

Desoxyn causes the norepinephrine transporter, dopamine transporter, and serotonin transporter to reverse it direction of flow. This inversion leads to a release of these transmitters from the vesicles to the cytoplasm and from the cytoplasm to the synapse. desoxyn also indirectly prevents the reuptake of these neurtransmitters, causing them to remain in the synaptic cleft longer.

The sedation is from SO very much of norepinephrine, dopamine and serotonin being in your system all at once - it is serious overload - so much so that your body just cannot keep up and therefore "gives up" so to speak.

People with ADHD have too much of these transmitters in their system to begin with - ie the hyperactivity - therefore when you add even more the hyperactivity crashes - the sedation feeling. Your muscles and nerves can only be buzzed (so to speak) so high, then they stop buzzing

It's like we are already on stimulants compared to "normal" people, but "downers" bring us WAY down - sometimes too far down - but stimluants bring us up high enough to reach our breaking point and finally calm us down.

If that makes any sence at all?

That actually makes A LOT OF sense. .

BTW, Bugs n Bunnys

to everyzig:

You are worried about the potential for long-term brain damage caused by methamphetamine.


Yes, METH can cause degeneration of dopaminergic and serotonergic neurons, especially at higher doses.


But, I hope you read my post, recent studies suggest that post-administration of a dopamine transporter blocker ( such as methylphenidate ) after consumption of METH may prevent any neurotoxic effects caused by METH.


The reseearchers suggest that METH ( Desoxyn ) decreases vesicular dopamine uptake , which leads to vesicular dopamine depletion after a while

( vesicles are the stores for synaptically released dopamine )

When dopamine vesicles are depleted, dopaminergic deficits occur ( and hence the adhd gets even worse ).

But ( according to the stuy ), if methylphenidate is taken after Desoxyn wears off later in the day, vesicular dopamine uptake increases and the stores are refilled.


So, generally speaking, taking a small dose of methylphenidate when Desoxyn wears off would prevent both tolerance to desoxyn and ( potentially ) dopaminergic deficits.

to all:

Does anybody know more about this topic?


To everyzig:

Maybe you can discuss this combo with your doctor. I am convinced that, if you are desperated with adhd med tolerance, desoxyn and a low dose of methylphenidate ( ritalin ) when desoxyn wears off would be much better than trying another stimulant.


Links to the studies:

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/304/3/1181


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYR-483SN2S-KD&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F16%2F1990&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1463983ceeb6b9b9c4dbf8fdaa17232c

Does anybody know more about this topic?
I only know about it based on my own experience from having taken Desoxyn in combination with methylphenidate, or dexmethylphenidate.

I have found that the combination of Desoxyn with dexmethylphenidate is much better for me than the combination of Desoxyn with methylphenidate.

I am currently taking a Dexedrine/Focalin combo that I prefer over the Desoxyn/Focalin combo.

PS Thanks for posting the links. ;)

I am thinking about trying out Desoxyn for predominantly inattentive ADD. Do small dosages (such as 5 mg in a day) lead to brain degeneration and a worsening of ADD symptoms?

Also, how long do you typically need to be taking the drug typically for degeneration to occur and is there a way to track this to prevent it from happening?

I've taken desoxyn for a couple of days and feel cool/calm but disorientated (visual memory abit impaired at times, less coordinated, lose direction but react quickly) on it. I also feel loss of focus/zombie like about 4 hours later and throughout the rest of the day after the drug wears off.

One wierd aspect I've noticed is that I can think quicker on what I want to say to someone and am a lot more opinionated but can't necessarily process information around me (like listening) quite as well? But maybe what it does is "allows" (like Bugs-n-bunnies says above) me to listen?

I'd like to try something else after another few days trialing this. Any suggestions?

I'd like to try something else after another few days trialing this. Any suggestions?
I would suggest talking to your Dr. about the possibility of whether or not Focalin, or Dexedrine might be a good option for you to try.

I have found Desoxyn, Focalin, and Dexedrine to be "heads & shoulders" above the other prescription stimulants in both effectiveness, and lower incidence of side effects.

I hope that you will keep us posted on what you and your Dr. decide to try next.

Drowsy on stimulants...Me too. With me it's only been with coffee, (haven't got meds yet) I called it "paradoxical drowsiness" for a couple of decades and never understood it. If coffee keeps everyone else awake and gives them energy and focus, I thought, then why not me?

Worse, it would make me soooo tired, so I would go to bed...and not be able to sleep. Very frustrating.

Ducky

Hollyduck, do you take any stimulant medication that you don't get drowsy on while the drug is in effect (and not the time period during which it wears off)?

Anyway, as for the update, I called into the clinic and requested a trial on Dexedrine for 14 days. They ended up mailing me a prescription for long-acting 15 mg spansules that I should be able to pick it up from the pharmacy tomorrow.

Hollyduck, do you take any stimulant medication that you don't get drowsy on while the drug is in effect (and not the time period during which it wears off)?

Anyway, as for the update, I called into the clinic and requested a trial on Dexedrine for 14 days. They ended up mailing me a prescription for long-acting 15 mg spansules that I should be able to pick it up from the pharmacy tomorrow.
You may find Dexedrine has a drowsy effect too... Hopefully not though.

I find most those type of stimulants a bit sedative. It's different for everyone however.

The meds where I got an increase in energy were: Adderall and Ritilan.

Ozchris, what do you take that's the least sedative? I'm on spansules right now and find a dazing effect that occurs about 6 hours after taking it (occurs sooner if take the drug subsequent days in a row).


I simply want clarity of mind not bull**** flat/calming effects induced by norepinephirin. Give some advice and maybe I'll have a life and have you to thank for it.;)

The Desoxyn Gradumets were a superior Long acting medicine when they were available, those were the days.

The Desoxyn Gradumets were a superior Long acting medicine when they were available, those were the days.Even though the Desoxyn Gradumets are no longer available, a Dr (in the USA) can still prescribe an extended release version containing the exact same active ingredient used in that product by choosing to use a compounding pharmacy.

This is a perfectly legal option, and is usually done in cases where a particular version of a drug has been discontinued, but where some patients claimed that version actually worked best for them.

Hi,

I have 2 main points I'd like to offer. They are both my personal first hand experience and my findings from my own (broad) research into ADHD manifestations and possible cause or causes.

1) The INITIAL thrust of this thread: "DESOXYN is the best", is true. HOWEVER, I only hold that position FOR ME. If you are like me (and your ADHD is caused and/or manifests like mine) then it might be best for you too. If not, not.

2) The RECENT discussion of this thread: "How can you few be SEDATED by the most powerful STIMULANT out there?" has, I have found, a rather straightforward answer.

Edward, in his earlier post, touched on the answer. He said, "..the people that are using methamphetamine on the streets have not been diagnosed with ADHD, so it's probably effecting them in a much different way."

Exactly.

Russell Barkley in his book, "ADHD and the Nature of Self-Control" states that what may be the unifying root concept to understand ADHD as opposed to (for lack of a better term) "more normal" human development, is a large part of the function of the frontal lobes of the brain.

That function and that unifying concept is: EXECUTIVE FUNCTION of the brain.

***** EXECUTIVE FUNCTION - An Oversimplification *****
Parts of the brain are responsible for different things such as your senses, your speech, your memory, your responses, etc. just like different musicians in an orchestra. These parts of your brain can function on their own. But, for the parts to work together in an organized fashion, requires the help of a CONDUCTOR; the frontal lobes' EXECUTIVE FUNCTION.

The Executive Function in the brain can be compared to the Conductor in the orchestra.

Without a conductor, instruments may play but it isn't music; the result is a disorganized mess.

Without Executive Functioning to orchestrate the activity... without Executive Function, to to bring all the parts together in harmony, our ADHD brains work alright! They work like crazy! But the result is kinda crazy too.
***** get the idea? *****

OK, so if (for short) we can think of ADHD as (in part) deficient executive functioning in our few brains, then understanding "..how can script methamphetamine make you few folk sedated?" is actually simple.

We few ADHD people appear to be overstimulated because we are overstimulated... by our own senses. There's no conductor to quiet the ears during the lullaby, to soften the touch, or calm the crescendo as new theme after new theme sweeps through us.

Ahhh, but if only we could wake the sleeping conductor. If only we could rouse him to his task of managing all the blaring, attending to the goals the composer had in mind, attending to our goals rather than just throwing everything into an unchecked frenzy with everything at full volume. If we could instead manage the noise, FILTERING which gets through and which gets silenced. If we could somehow boost our ability to tune in to what we want and to tune out what we don't wish to attend to...

Then the harmony would be unmistakable as it washed over us. The calm too, when we wished the performance to end.

It would be easy to see because we would suddenly look just like everyone else.

When we few take our prescribed stimulants, we are finally able to control the show, we are finally able to bring our ability to manage the outside world's constant onslaught up to the level that everyone else simply woke up with.

Stimulant medications hype US up - to where EVERYONE ELSE IDLES.

When WE ARE on stimulants, OUR filters finally come on-line and the never ending input from all of OUR senses finally eases under OUR control.

I'm taking enough methamphetamine to get a typical high school CLASS high. But I'm not typical so instead, everything in my head grows quieter and, in the calm, I can usually get a little rest.

..if that's what I turn my attention to.

:o

For those of you who feel drowsy on stimulants, has it always been this way? It's only started happening for me after I burned out my dopamine receptors from escalating dosages of adderall, culminating in 2 megadoses of dex (200mg) that send me to the emergency room. Actually, I was already feeling tired from the stims before that, but I had just taken more and more of the stims to overcome the fatigue.

And.. I think this rebound effect is what's causing all of these ADDers to feel drowsy or tired from stims, yes even desoxyn... take several doses at once and see how that makes you feel, too bad it pretty much indicates that the medication is UNSUSTAINABLE in the long run

Pardon my making this small correction, but I believe you mean 'panacea' rather than panache.
Nevertheless, YOUR posting helped me to educate myself AND my physician with regard to the myriad treatments available (effective or not) to those with ADHD.

Thank you!

Excellently put.

I WAS able to read the entire posting and thank you for the enlightenment.