My supervisor and an HR represented called me in to a meeting yesterday and basically told me I need to seek counseling.

There have been some work related problems going on, which I thought I was handling pretty well, but come to find out, people do not perceive me as handling things well at all.

I am showing a lack of "organizational savvy" and poor "emotional IQ".
I am making the problems "all about me" and I am too impatient with others and coming off like I have to have everything my way.
Also, I am too emotional and just being "bored' at work is not enough reason to be as "agitated" and upset as I have been. They told me that they have worked with people who went through divorce or the death of a child who were not as upset at work as I have been.

This was such a shock to me. I thought I was handling the situation pretty well. They told me "everyone" feels like they are walking on eggshells around me because they never know how I am going to react or if I will snap at them, or what. I have been subdued lately, because I am depressed about my job, but I did not think I was snapping at people! I was trying to be on my best behavior because of the problems!

I am trying to process all this and figure out how to react and what to do. The thing is, this is not the first time I have heard similar accusations over the years. I always thought if only they understood the whole situation, they would not think that. That I just need to find better ways to explain myself. But it is the first time I was told I should seek counseling!! I went ahead and made an appointment. Clearly they are seeing some things about me that I am not seeing. Maybe it is not just that people don't understand the whole situation.

Up until now, I thought I had a good career future here. Now I am afraid for my job! What do I do? I thought I had a handle on things in my life, now I feel like I am back at square one.

I was put on some kind of improvement plan before getting fired from my job. Told I should utilize the counceling services that are made available through my benefits but they could not really tell me why. They would not listen to anything I said and why I had issues. I knew why I had issues and I knew how to fix the problem but they did not listen to me at all.

They are a business, they don't know if anyone needs counceling they are not experts in that area. So that is a bunch of crap. I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a CYA for them to get you fired. I don't know the entire situation but I could probably better explain how I think I know this is the case if i was able to speak to you. It is way too much to type.

They don't know that your in complete control of your actions and so they might be trying to take some precautions but if they come to any reason to try and fire you then they cannot do it because your bored. I was bored at my job but i did everything I could to keep it intersting even though I was burned out. I needed to get out of my job anyway but I never quit. I made them fire me.

They probably think that the way you react or explain things or actions you do are irrational, you are only doing your best to work through them because you know who you are and you know what you need to do to function in every day life.

The key is to pinpoint what basis they would have grounds to terminate you or do anything of that nature.



My supervisor and an HR represented called me in to a meeting yesterday and basically told me I need to seek counseling.

There have been some work related problems going on, which I thought I was handling pretty well, but come to find out, people do not perceive me as handling things well at all.

I am showing a lack of "organizational savvy" and poor "emotional IQ".
I am making the problems "all about me" and I am too impatient with others and coming off like I have to have everything my way.
Also, I am too emotional and just being "bored' at work is not enough reason to be as "agitated" and upset as I have been. They told me that they have worked with people who went through divorce or the death of a child who were not as upset at work as I have been.

This was such a shock to me. I thought I was handling the situation pretty well. They told me "everyone" feels like they are walking on eggshells around me because they never know how I am going to react or if I will snap at them, or what. I have been subdued lately, because I am depressed about my job, but I did not think I was snapping at people! I was trying to be on my best behavior because of the problems!

I am trying to process all this and figure out how to react and what to do. The thing is, this is not the first time I have heard similar accusations over the years. I always thought if only they understood the whole situation, they would not think that. That I just need to find better ways to explain myself. But it is the first time I was told I should seek counseling!! I went ahead and made an appointment. Clearly they are seeing some things about me that I am not seeing. Maybe it is not just that people don't understand the whole situation.

Up until now, I thought I had a good career future here. Now I am afraid for my job! What do I do? I thought I had a handle on things in my life, now I feel like I am back at square one.

Sounds like you are appearing irritable to your coworkers, and it is making them tense and upset. (Depression, or low moods, you should know, can LOOK or present as "irritability". You think you feel bummed out, but they experience you emotionally, as being angry and no nice to be around.

------------
re: coworker non-verbal behavior and perceptions

Some jobs require that a person be a high self-monitor.

Sounds like you are a low self-monitor, however.

Self Monitoring: There are people who are high self-monitors and people who are low self-monitors.
A high self-monitor is someone who is concerned about how they are perceived by others and will actually change their behavior in order to fit different situations (e.g., if they believe they will be perceived negatively by others, they may change their behavior so that they are perceived more positively, rather than just acting in a consistent manner).
On the other hand, a low self-monitor is someone who is less concerned with how other people perceive them and will be more likely to act consistently.
My own addition here:-->
The upside is that the low self-monitors are more genuine and authentic (their 'outside self' shows what is going on in the 'inside self', emotionally), but the downside is that cannot see 'how they impact others', etc.
------------

A book that i would recommend is called "First Impressions: What you don't know about how Others see you."

http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/pages/charts/table.57.html

http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/pages/charts/table.82.html

http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/pages/charts/table.109.html

http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/pages/charts/table.146.html


http://www.firstimpressionsconsulting.com/pages/book.html

I would also recommend looking at Daniel Goleman's books:

1. Emotional Intelligence

2. Social Intelligence

MovingShadow, you may be right.

But, I also think they are right - and that is what I am reeling from. I look back on it and I see where this kind of stuff has happened before, and I realize that they are right - they must be, or else why has it happened over and over again?

I think it it just that as my career has progressed over the years, the stakes have just gotten higher and higher with the repercussions getting bigger and bigger until it has reached this point. About a year and a half ago, I was in hot water like this, but it blew over. At the time, I just felt like the whole thing was unfair and I was being targeted by people who were threatened by me. I also had some higher level people on my side. But now, it appears I have alienated them too.

Before that, it was pretty smooth sailing for about 3 years, following a job change after an incident where the two managers in the department had me crying in an office while they told me I just wasn't a team player, didn't get along with others and was too overbearing. At the time, I decided they were just idiots and I got out of the department as fast as I could.

But going back farther, there are other work related incidents, the same type of thing, over and over, every 2 or 3 years. I figured out the one thing all these episodes have in common: I was BORED!

As long as I am excited and interested in my job, things go great and I am the golden girl. But as soon as I start to get bored, it all goes to pot and all this time I have blamed everyone else for being stupid or threatened by me when really maybe I was all those things they said I was and then some.

My Psych told me that my brain requires stimulation and it will get it any way it has to. I said is it possible I am creating drama around myself just to get the stimulation I need? He said yes, it is possible.

I discussed that with my husband (he is a teacher and deals with ADHD kids all the time) and his reaction was like the light bulb came on for him and he said that is exactly what the kids in his class do! He said a kid with ADHD who is not kept occupied will find a way to occupy himself and probably make life HE** for everyone else in the process. He said "a bored ADHD kid is a dangerous thing."

Well then, what is a bored ADHD adult?

QueensU Girl, yes, I've been thinking about it and I think you are right - they are seeing me as irritable, or possibly as pouty, which if that is the case, must seem not only not nice to be around, but pretty darn childish too.

It is like scales falling off my eyes. How can I have had a self perception that is so radically different from how others perceive me? I'm shocked, appalled, humiliated.

I found some EQ self assessments on the internet - I took 3 different ones and scored abysmally low on all of them. That's a shocker too - I've never taken one before, but if you had asked me how I expected to perform on one, I would have said pretty good. Um...WRONG!

Also, like you said, I would have argued that a "low self-monitor" is more genuine and authentic, but now I have second thoughts, because what I thought was genuine and authentic about myself is not what other people are seeing in me!!!

I've read enough about ADHD traits - low tolerance for frustration, difficulty accepting criticism, impatience, interrupting others, etc. But, I just never put it together that those traits might have something to do with what people were trying to tell me,

I have had this problem as well, in my former "career" sales(although i will probably have to come back to this "career"). When I'm bored, or better yet dislike the job, I 'm not the best person to be around.... Very negative, get upset easily, etc..curretnly I do not have this problem since I have not a job now! :) some of these books were some good recommendations. Thanks. Any other advice people?

One of the phrases they used in this meeting was "organizational savvy" - that I didn't have good organizational savvy. I had never heard the term before and assumed it was just something they made up, but today I googled it and I think I have a bingo.

There is a book out called "Survival of the Savvy". Read this description from the author's website promoting the book:
"Despite excellent intentions, many corporate employees, managers, and executives are too narrowly focused on their own facts, logic, and analysis. Assuming our "results will speak for themselves," we may become the victims of other "behind-the-scenes" forces operating in our organizations. We may not build enough support for our ideas, or be blind to hidden agendas, power relationships, and the politics with which decisions are sometimes made. We could be short-changing ourselves out of career opportunities or diminishing our influence and impact. We may not receive proper credit or recognition, and may even be vulnerable to sabotage by other more power-driven colleagues or bosses."

I think this is the bull's eye - I have felt helpless before in the face of office politics and those people who know how to "play the game" can run circles around me even when I am twice as smart as them and do much better quality work. I'm getting this book!

I'll post more on this...

Organizational deficits would be problems with 'executive function'. ADHD in a nutshell.

The following comes from the description of a workshop by Rick Brandon, the author of the book, Survival of the Savvy:

"Learning Objectives
Detect and protect yourself from potentially negative actions of overly political, power-oriented colleagues, bosses, or customers.
Learn practical, nonmanipulative strategies for entering the political arena while maintaining integrity (e.g., networking, promoting yourself, handling hidden agendas, lobbying ethically, managing the corporate "buzz," avoiding sabotage, building your power base).
Learn two primary political power styles in organizations, what influences them, and how to avoid the dangers of adopting the extreme of either style.
Defuse any emotional upset you have about politics as a fact of organizational life, so that you will waste less time and energy. Instead you'll become "street smart" and strategic.
Recognize any tip-offs that you may be naive about the level of politics you face.
Learn how to present your ideas or challenge others' ideas with appropriately firm vocabulary, and adjust your language according to the power dynamics of the situation.
Detect, prevent, and manage deception since even top leaders are vulnerable to distorted information, misrepresentation, and manipulation that can scorch company resources and reputations
Learn to recognize and handle sabotage in group situations by deftly managing resistance and challenges to your credibility or position.

Our goal isn't to create political manipulators, but instead to protect you from low organizational impact or sabotage. We may not like it, but for good ideas and people to survive, we must build organizational savvy and political influence. You can maintain your integrity and ethics while becoming more politically astute!"


Wow. I think I get what they were saying. I think they are right about the Emotional IQ, which is a problem in itself, but when you combine it with a general all around obliviousness to office politics, it is a wonder I have made it this far. It is oddly gratifying to get some confirmation that yes, some of the troubles I have had probably really were, at least initially, caused by people who had some reason to want to undermine me. But, I look back on it and I realize that I just bumbled around like a bull in a china shop, not knowing where the shots were coming from or how to defend myself. Or as if I just grabbed a sword and started swinging, not even knowing I was just stabbing myself in the process while the more nimble attacker just stood back and let me do it.

I've had friends tell me I was too naive and idealistic. Now I know why.
Well, at least I can get this book and start wising up.

Organizational deficits would be problems with 'executive function'. ADHD in a nutshell.

Yes, yes, yes,
It is like light bulbs coming on all over the place for me.

I was diagnosed over two years ago. Only now am I starting to figure some of this stuff out. And only by having it forced on me. It's not just about losing our car keys, is it?

I talked to my Dr. about this and I said "How can this be happening? I'm medicated!"
To which he replied with a certain droll expression that makes me laugh no matter how distraught I am, "I'm increasing your dosage."

I would also recommend looking at Daniel Goleman's books:

1. Emotional Intelligence

2. Social Intelligence

I already brought home "Emotional Intelligence". I asked the HR training dept for a copy. They keep all kinds of management books to loan out to employees. I also asked if they have any assessments I could take that would be a little more in depth than the free self assessments you can find on the internet. They do. They will administer it for me in a couple of weeks.

Even if I end up out of a job, I will need to work on this to keep the next one...

One of my more troublesome ADHD traits is ruminating....boy oh boy am I ruminating on this thing... can't stop thinking about it, replaying that meeting and a dozen other related episodes...

I'd love some posts - anyone else been in this boat? What did you do?

Anybody heard of the book I talked about in my post yesterday? What do you think of the premise?

One of my more troublesome ADHD traits is ruminating....boy oh boy am I ruminating on this thing... can't stop thinking about it, replaying that meeting and a dozen other related episodes...

I'd love some posts - anyone else been in this boat? What did you do?

Anybody heard of the book I talked about in my post yesterday? What do you think of the premise?Sound like you may have some anxiety issues - like you SERIOUSLY need a 'chill pill':p if you're ruminating. If you don't mind me asking, what meds are you currently taking? That could shed a lot of light onto your condition if we knew what you were taking. Because what it sounds like is that you need something to calm you down when you're not busy with a task. Something to ease your worries;)

What type of medication are you taking? Do you think the meds are partially to blame for the way you act sometimes?

Counseling could help. It's not a bad thing. Everyone gets counseling in some fashion at some point in their lives

Yeah, I've been told that I need a chill pill...I'd like one myself!
I am taking Concerta and Ritalin...
I'd like to blame the meds, but I don't really think that's it.

Thanks for the replies though! I appreciate it!

Sounds a bit like I went through in my previous job! When I was put onto a "final written warning" I was also told by my supervisor that it wasn't about my performance, it was "other things". Then she didn't explain it whatsoever. For me that was the last straw, I applied for uni, got accepted, enrolled in December last year & just after Christmas, told my new manager (who had wanted to discuss my so-called "performance issues") that I was going to be resigning to go to uni full time withing the following couple of weeks. It has turned out to be the best thing for my mental health that I could have done. I am a hell of a lot happier doing this than I was fighting for my position at my old work. I never was interested in office politics & now I don't have to

Procrastin8ter -

You asked if anyone else was in this boat and how we dealt with it. Oh man - I don't believe I have the energy this morning to get ALL into it, but I can at least tell you that when I read your post this morning I thought to myself, "Procrastin8r must be working at _____________ now! OMG!" And/or I also thought to myself, "Wow! Did I used to call myself 'Procrastin8r'? I don't remember writing this post."

WOW! YES - I'VE TOTALLY BEEN THERE! And - like you - I always thought that the folks at my prior place of employment were PSYCHO!!! I did not see ANY OF THE THINGS they were accusing me of. And pretty much - until reading what you wrote - I've still maintained that THEY were the ones who needed counseling.

During this time I was seeing my ADHD psychologist and he advised me that I'd do better working for a SMALL organization. I cannot navigate political environments well at all, even though I always PRIDED MYSELF on being AUTHENTIC, GENUINE & KIND!! I always viewed "networking" - in the way they described it in that excerpt from 'Queens' as "getting people behind you" as basically PLAYING GAMES, BEING DECEITFUL, and BEING MANIPULATIVE!!

I wouldn't let myself feel TOO DESTROYED by this little HR meeting. As much as I KNOW I'm supposed to LEARN from this incident (and perhaps GROW in some ways) - I will NEVER be able to play all those games - and that must be GOOD for something.

I'm rambling. To answer your "How did you handle it?": Well - I went to the counseling AND I took the PAID FMLA LEAVE my employer OFFERED/DEMANDED OF me! I got 6 months off PAID AS WORKING FULLTIME! I also got an additional 3 mos paid leave as PT. Then I returned to work PART-TIME in a different office. Then I left my job, got unemployment and now I'm on SSI. Sounds like I really DO have a problem, eh? Well, YES! All that happened at my workplace really sent ME REELING TOO!! I also had been the "Golden Girl" for so long it almost felt as if they were going to erect of statue of me any day now. lol . . . . . The whole thing was SO FREAKY TO ME!

Anyway - in addition to EXCESSIVE THERAPY, etc. - after three years I actually AM enjoying my time off. I'm a single mom - and THAT can be ENOUGH of a FT job in itself. However, I will need to return to work in the near future - and I could not be LESS ENTHUSIASTIC about that idea. I hope to find something I can do to be self-employed OR to have a job where I'm not so scrutinized about stuff that seems INSANE to me. Maybe I can be a clown in a circus!?? lol . . . . . :p

Sue

P.S. The two phrases my supervisor used all the time were, "That's not appropriate/professional." and/or "That's not your role." However - every 3 days or so she seemed to radically change her opinion about what was/wasn't appropriate/professional and as to what my role was/wasn't. I so much wanted to ask her every morning when she came through the door, "Who are you today? And please give me your list of professional/unprofessional ways of being. And also give me my ever-changing DAILY job description . . .
B!TC#!!!!!

Its office corruption...

You should read my thread that I started. It is titled something like "do you think the reason adders are getting fired is because the boss is afraid?"

This is something that I think is a BIG deal. It needs to be recognized and discussed more. When they said your not a "team player" they meant you don't play on the office bull**** team because they play a game. You perform a duty in the best way you know how. They see their jobs as a competition but nothing dear to them. Adders when they have a job that job is important to them - dear to them. To the heart! To them it is just something they could do without and let go of easier than you. Thats the best way I can describe it at 11:45 PM at night and tired :)

They were afraid and threatened. I am unemployed right now and I am afraid to get a job because of corruption like this. So everyone says "it is everywher eyou go" - then I cant be everywhere! If i get a job again and I see this I would question them and say " do you feel threatened by me " life is too short. Doing something like that might scare them off and they will leave you alone. I play hard ball. I don't play games.

MovingShadow, you may be right.

But, I also think they are right - and that is what I am reeling from. I look back on it and I see where this kind of stuff has happened before, and I realize that they are right - they must be, or else why has it happened over and over again?

I think it it just that as my career has progressed over the years, the stakes have just gotten higher and higher with the repercussions getting bigger and bigger until it has reached this point. About a year and a half ago, I was in hot water like this, but it blew over. At the time, I just felt like the whole thing was unfair and I was being targeted by people who were threatened by me. I also had some higher level people on my side. But now, it appears I have alienated them too.

Before that, it was pretty smooth sailing for about 3 years, following a job change after an incident where the two managers in the department had me crying in an office while they told me I just wasn't a team player, didn't get along with others and was too overbearing. At the time, I decided they were just idiots and I got out of the department as fast as I could.

But going back farther, there are other work related incidents, the same type of thing, over and over, every 2 or 3 years. I figured out the one thing all these episodes have in common: I was BORED!

As long as I am excited and interested in my job, things go great and I am the golden girl. But as soon as I start to get bored, it all goes to pot and all this time I have blamed everyone else for being stupid or threatened by me when really maybe I was all those things they said I was and then some.

My Psych told me that my brain requires stimulation and it will get it any way it has to. I said is it possible I am creating drama around myself just to get the stimulation I need? He said yes, it is possible.

I discussed that with my husband (he is a teacher and deals with ADHD kids all the time) and his reaction was like the light bulb came on for him and he said that is exactly what the kids in his class do! He said a kid with ADHD who is not kept occupied will find a way to occupy himself and probably make life HE** for everyone else in the process. He said "a bored ADHD kid is a dangerous thing."

Well then, what is a bored ADHD adult?

Its office corruption...

You should read my thread that I started. It is titled something like "do you think the reason adders are getting fired is because the boss is afraid?"

This is something that I think is a BIG deal. It needs to be recognized and discussed more. When they said your not a "team player" they meant you don't play on the office bull**** team because they play a game.

They were afraid and threatened.

If i get a job again and I see this I would question them and say " do you feel threatened by me " life is too short. Doing something like that might scare them off and they will leave you alone. I play hard ball. I don't play games.

I've read some of your posts. You've had a tough time.

There is some truth in what you say, but I am not prepared to be so cynical as to believe that every single person in my workplace is threatened by me and out to get me. Maybe a couple of them are, but the huge majority are just going about their day with barely a thought to me at all. Actually, believe it or not, I think there are even a couple of them who are trying to help me.

I have applied the advice they gave me - get counseling, improve your EQ. I'm seeing my Psych now once a week.

He has suggested that I am acting as a mouth piece for all of the people in my work group. It is a dysfunctional group, and I turned into the lightning rod for everyone to channel their dysfunctions through. It is an interesting thought - one coworker even told me before that she could never speak up to the bosses the way I could. It makes sense. I show the most emotion so people uncomfortable with that have an excuse to back away from my legitimate complaints and then claim that they had no choice due to my behavior! I am passionate, idealistic, naive, and usually willing to throw myself under the train, so I became the sacrificial lamb.

Also, (this shouldn't be a big surprise) he said I have low self esteem. He suggested I have a problem with authority figures and when confronted with one I revert to a little girl. I can't deny that. I am either the "good girl" soaking up praise or...well, I'm trying to figure that out.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I am moving forward with the counseling. I made sure the powers that be knew that I was in an effort to show that I was taking the whole thing seriously and not just getting mad and being emotional. I also got a copy of the book Emotional Intelligence - I read it openly on my lunch hour and left it in an obvious spot on my desk. I've had some good feedback from a few people. Nothing real direct, but enough to let me know that it's being noticed.

Ultimately, whether I am able to save my job here or not, I think I need to do these things for myself.

Good for you Procrastin8r!! You sound very STRONG! Your story is actually turning out to be very inspirational to me!!!!

I guess for me, I feel (felt) that I was always "being SO GOOD" (hmm . . . does sound like childhood issues with me - eh?) and doing EVERYTHING AS THE TOLD ME TO - and the supervisor would just get angrier and angrier!

Anyway - HR was good to me. I was transferred to another office and things were fine (but I was NO LONGER feeling fine anymore, and I left - the whole experience brought forward lots of personal emotional issues I had probably been repressing for a long time).

Anyway - I like your attitude. Perhaps everything DOES turn out for the best!

Best wishes,
Sue

My supervisor was not giving me any credit when I "caved in" and did everything the way she wanted it done. (Even though it did not need to be). I felt like I was living a lie but I just threw myself into it and pretended like I was playing her game.

Still she just decided to say at the end of the "performance improvement plan" that I just wasn't meeting the goals it had set up.

I did all this while trying to get ADA accomodation - nothing worked.

Hey Procrastinator,

What is your Myers-Briggs type? I would be fascinated to know (if you don't already know you can go to keirsey.com and find out).

I'm not going to mince words here. It sounds like your bosses were saying, in a nutshell, that you are getting to be a real pain in the booty and if you don't get your stuff straight they are going to figure out a way to boot you out. Most bosses/supervisors just don't want to deal with a lot of drama.

If you are needing stimulation, you will create havoc around you. Been there. BUT I do think that you need to take a look at your meds, also. When I was taking too high a dose of Ritalin, although my focus and work output increased, I became too "buzzed" and got the same kind of feedback that you are getting -- irritable, snappish, hard to talk to -- and that was from kind-hearted people who really liked me, not my boss. I didn't see it because my self-reflection skills were low (I wasn't married at the time so I didn't have anyone to reflect to me how I was coming off).

Sometimes we ADDers (especially if we are NFs) are into grand dramas, rescuing, etc., in bad workplaces. But we can sometimes misinterpret, overreact, and generally be way "too much." Most employers want someone who will come in, do the job without causing them extra work, and go home. People want the work place to be comfortable.

If YOU are uncomfortable because of the politics, or because you are bored, then you are going to tend to spread that around, and most people don't want to deal with it. And employers DEFINITELY don't want someone who is going to foment rebellion (even if it's justified because they are crazy or too demanding, etc.)

In my estimation you have two choices here only. 1) Change and get with the program. 2) Stay the same and get another job. The likelihood that you are going to cause an organizational change in attitude and the way business is done is ABYSMALLY low.

Organizations do not tend to be "authentic" (which is why I want to know your Myers-Briggs, because intuitive feelers and intuitive thinkers tend to reject falsity and inauthenticity pretty vehemently). Your best bet might be taking what you are good at and going solo somehow, working from home, or doing something that pleases you.

For example, my mom is a brilliant, creative lady, but she cleaned houses and gardened for wealthy people as a career, because it paid well and left her with absolute autonomy and no BS whatsoever to deal with, and she could just dump a customer if they got on her nerves.

There is NOTHING inherently wrong with your high energy, "bossy" personality. It's just that BOSSY people need to find a way to be the BOSS, LOL!!

Hey Procrastinator,

What is your Myers-Briggs type? I would be fascinated to know (if you don't already know you can go to keirsey.com and find out).



It's INFJ - I have to post it immediately or else I will forget. What does that mean in this context?

Good for you Procrastin8r!! You sound very STRONG! Your story is actually turning out to be very inspirational to me!!!!

Thank you! I can't tell you how great that makes me feel!

I guess for me, I feel (felt) that I was always "being SO GOOD" (hmm . . . does sound like childhood issues with me - eh?) and doing EVERYTHING AS THE TOLD ME TO - and the supervisor would just get angrier and angrier!

I guess it is just that they can see through to any "attitude" you (I) have about doing what we think we are supposed to. In my case, maybe I'm eye-rolling when I didn't think anyone could see me. I don't know. I guess I am not as good an actress as I thought I was.


Anyway - HR was good to me. I was transferred to another office and things were fine (but I was NO LONGER feeling fine anymore, and I left - the whole experience brought forward lots of personal emotional issues I had probably been repressing for a long time).

So true. I'm going through with counseling and I am really scared to death. It's like unpeeling an onion - but I'm not sure what is under all those layers! At my last appointment, my Dr. pointed out that I seem to be trying to give him the "right" answers. It's true. How do I break through the facade that I have built for myself to get to the real person underneath?

Anyway - I like your attitude. Perhaps everything DOES turn out for the best!
Best wishes,
Sue

Thank you, thank you. I hope so! I believe it will!

My supervisor was not giving me any credit when I "caved in" and did everything the way she wanted it done. (Even though it did not need to be). I felt like I was living a lie but I just threw myself into it and pretended like I was playing her game.

Still she just decided to say at the end of the "performance improvement plan" that I just wasn't meeting the goals it had set up.

I did all this while trying to get ADA accomodation - nothing worked.

I truly believe there are some bosses who are just vile, period. Maybe in your case, the boss was just that. But, not all of them are. Some just want to get the job done and get home at a decent hour at night. Maybe a boss who can see that an employee is "living a lie" and "pretending to play the game" would want to get rid of that employee. I don't mean to be harsh. This is kind of a new realization to me. One, I never really thought anyone could tell how insincere I really was at times. Two, I never really realized myself how insincere I was.

I don't want to live a lie or play games, but I do want to be able to maneuver a little bit more adeptly through the social/political landscape that is the corporate office, without putting myself in the line of fire. I'm trying to figure it out....

Hey Procrastinator,

I'm not going to mince words here. It sounds like your bosses were saying, in a nutshell, that you are getting to be a real pain in the booty and if you don't get your stuff straight they are going to figure out a way to boot you out. Most bosses/supervisors just don't want to deal with a lot of drama.

Ouch!

Yes, much of what you say is true. But, I've also gotten a lot of mixed signals making it very difficult for me to know what to say or do. I thought I was responding appropriately to one set of signals, and was completely unaware of the other. Bosses have some responsibility to their employees to make their expectations clear, don't they? That's my idealism speaking, I know.


If you are needing stimulation, you will create havoc around you. Been there.

That is what my Dr. said too. I've always despised people who seem to enjoy drama for drama's sake. It makes me a little ill to think I might be one of those people. But, my brain chemistry is what it is. I'm still learning about it and I'm still in the process of recognizing what influence it has on me. I'm not sure I have even really taken my diagnosis seriously until this crisis at work.


BUT I do think that you need to take a look at your meds, also. When I was taking too high a dose of Ritalin, although my focus and work output increased, I became too "buzzed" and got the same kind of feedback that you are getting -- irritable, snappish, hard to talk to --

I don't think it is my meds. This is not really something new. It has come up over the years, usually cycling about every 2-3 years. Actually meds do help (Concerta + Ritalin). Ironically, I was trying a new trial with a higher dose of Concerta and no Ritalin booster during the 3 months leading up to this. I knew it was not enough and I am back on a higher Ritalin booster.


-- and that was from kind-hearted people who really liked me, not my boss. I didn't see it because my self-reflection skills were low

At this big meeting I had with the boss and HR rep, the one thing they said that got through to me, that really made me stop and listen to what they were saying and stop defending myself and arguing their points was that they said "People are worried about you". And I had a Sally Field moment - they like me, they really like me! And then - they are worried about me! I cried, there in the meeting, and I put down my defenses. I told them that was harder to hear than the criticism.


(I wasn't married at the time so I didn't have anyone to reflect to me how I was coming off).

I am married, and due to this big work crisis I am going through, my husband has been sharing observations he has never been willing to make to me before. He said I would never have listened before or it would have just started a big fight. He is absolutely right. So, being married is no guarantee that ANYONE will tell you the truth.


Sometimes we ADDers (especially if we are NFs) are into grand dramas, rescuing, etc., in bad workplaces. But we can sometimes misinterpret, overreact, and generally be way "too much." Most employers want someone who will come in, do the job without causing them extra work, and go home. People want the work place to be comfortable.

If YOU are uncomfortable because of the politics, or because you are bored, then you are going to tend to spread that around, and most people don't want to deal with it. And employers DEFINITELY don't want someone who is going to foment rebellion (even if it's justified because they are crazy or too demanding, etc.)

In my estimation you have two choices here only. 1) Change and get with the program. 2) Stay the same and get another job. The likelihood that you are going to cause an organizational change in attitude and the way business is done is ABYSMALLY low.

Good observations. I have been in this situation before, but I have never learned anything from it, least of all how not to repeat it!


What is your Myers-Briggs type? I would be fascinated to know (if you don't already know you can go to keirsey.com and find out).

Organizations do not tend to be "authentic" (which is why I want to know your Myers-Briggs, because intuitive feelers and intuitive thinkers tend to reject falsity and inauthenticity pretty vehemently).

It is INFJ. I had to put in in another post because I was afraid I would forget it - and I did! I'm not sure I really understand what that means in this context. Can you help?


Your best bet might be taking what you are good at and going solo somehow, working from home, or doing something that pleases you.

For example, my mom is a brilliant, creative lady, but she cleaned houses and gardened for wealthy people as a career, because it paid well and left her with absolute autonomy and no BS whatsoever to deal with, and she could just dump a customer if they got on her nerves.

Maybe. But I fear if I worked alone I would become a total hermit. I do like to be around people at least part of the time! Also, I have no internal motivation - meaning that I am unable to impose any real urgency upon myself to accomplish anything. It has to come from external sources. I really need to be in an environment where things are happening - the phone ringing, emails all the time, lots of meetings. I can't imagine that working solo....


There is NOTHING inherently wrong with your high energy, "bossy" personality. It's just that BOSSY people need to find a way to be the BOSS, LOL!!


Thank you! And I've very much appreciated your post!

OH YEAH, an INFJ!!! I'm an INFP so I can definitely lend some insight here.

Intuitive feelers tend to live in a universe that other people don't understand. We are . . . well, just different than most people. We feel undercurrents, hints, emotional tones that most people don't pick up on.

We tend to be able to assess incongruence in people's actions/inauthenticity and when we do -- IT REALLY BOTHERS US. To an NF (intuitive feeler), an organization is only as good as its mission, AND if people are working in a harmonious way. If we don't support the mission, or, worse, there is no mission, OR if there is a great deal of inauthenticity we feel miserable and want to somehow "fix it."

Here's something I found, see if it fits! (PM me if you want the link):

"Working

INFJs tend to be devoted to what they believe in and seek work where their needs, values, and ideals can be deeply engaged. They move on the wave of their inspirations and are determined to see that their values are worked out in their lives. They will work toward their goals individually and, when needed, will put together a team of other highly dedicated people like themselves. They are personal be with others, working with integrity and consistency, and they follow through on their commitments. INFJs, while concentrating on what is important to them, may ignore the political ramifications of their actions. They can be surprised by the necessity of being political and usually resent that aspect of organizational life. Being able to talk honestly and comfortably to people at work is much more important to them than 'playing games.'

INFJs orient themselves toward their goals using a personal, values-based framework. They do not 'advertise' their values and priorities because they believe in harmony and positive relationships. However, one would do well not to underestimate the amount of perseverance, energy, and time INFJs give to their priorities. What they do, they do with an almost religious intensity.

The INFJ external environment may be only partially organised. Their internal environment, by contrast, is anything but haphazard. Their ideas need to fit into a coherent whole that has the pieces in place. Organization of the internal world takes precedence over organization of external world.

INFJs prefer occupations that focus on the big picture, involve conceptual awareness, and lead to a better understanding of the spiritual, emotional, or future needs of people. They want their work to have impact and meaning and for it to bring them admiration and respect.

While INFJs can and do enter all occupations, some are more appealing to them than others. These include clergy, education consultant, English teacher, fine arts teacher, librarian, psychiatrist, psychologist, scientist, social worker, and other occupations that allow INFJs an opportunity to make their own creative contribution."

I didn't get a feel for what exact type work you are doing, but my question is, is it in line with your value system, and do you see how it can have a positive impact in terms of people's lives and furthering what you think is important?

NF's tend to be champions of the underdog, and we introject the suffering of others as if it's our own, so if we feel like people are being treated badly or unfairly, it REALLY bothers us and it's almost impossible for us to stay out of it.

Also (I know this is a lot but it's been on my mind today!) I'm wondering if your intellectual capacities are being put to good use.

What we DON'T seem to understand as NFs, because it seems WRONG to us, is that other personality types 1) sometimes value the organization and running it efficiently above what any individual "feels" about it, 2) enjoy the challenge of "working the system" to their advantage (think: politicians), and kind of think people of our personality type are oversensitive pantywaists, 3) care about status and appearance in a way our type is simply loathe to.

Thoughts?

amiegrace, I got the link you sent me. Thank you very much!

I found this on the link:

"At work as well as socially, INFJs are highly sensitive in their handling of others and tend to work well in an organizational structure. They have a capacity for working at jobs which require solitude and concentration, but also do well when in contact with people, providing the human interaction is not superficial. INFJs enjoy problem-solving and can understand and use human systems creatively and humanistically. As employees or employers, INFJs are concerned with people's feelings and are able to provide in themselves a barometer of the feelings of individuals and groups within the organizations. INFJs listen well and are willing and able to consult and cooperate with others. Once a decision is made, they work to implement it."

This seems to be a good description for what I have experienced - not by any means have I always or in every circumstances had trouble getting along with people - quite the opposite. Many of my colleagues at work have given me very positive remarks about how well I get along with all kinds of people. I do like to work alone, because it is so much less draining on me, but it is not that I am unable to be a team player!

I was particularly intrigued by the mention of the INFJ being a "barometer" of the feelings of others, since my psych had suggested I had become a mouth piece for other dissatisfied people in my work group. I can think of other similar circumstances when I seemed to fling myself into the void on behalf of coworkers!

But, then there is also this, from the same link....

"INFJs are generally good at public relations and themselves have good interpersonal relations. They value staff harmony and want an organization to run smoothly and pleasantly, themselves making every effort to contribute to that end. They are crushed by too much criticism and can have their feelings hurt rather easily. They respond to praise and use approval as a means of motivating others, just as they, the INFJs, are motivated by approval. If they are subject to a hostile, unfriendly working condition or to constant criticism, they tend to lose confidence, become unhappy and immobilized, and finally become physically ill."

Unhappy, immobilized, physically ill (depressed). That is what I became and still am. Not even so much that it is a "hostile" environment - that is really too strong a characterization. But running "smoothly and pleasantly" it most certainly is not.

And where does ADHD fit in? It seems like based on the IFNJ personality type alone I might have ended up in the meeting with HR! Now throw in some ADHD and where do am I? And how does this "intuition/feeling" personality type (me) end up scoring so abysmally low on the Emotion IQ tests?

Never-the-less, amiegrace, so much of what you posted fits me EXACTLY, that I was a little taken aback. I really needed to mull it over a bit before I felt ready to reply. Your PM today was the nudge I needed. Thanks!

OH YEAH, an INFJ!!! I'm an INFP so I can definitely lend some insight here.

Intuitive feelers tend to live in a universe that other people don't understand. We are . . . well, just different than most people. We feel undercurrents, hints, emotional tones that most people don't pick up on.

We tend to be able to assess incongruence in people's actions/inauthenticity and when we do -- IT REALLY BOTHERS US. To an NF (intuitive feeler), an organization is only as good as its mission, AND if people are working in a harmonious way. If we don't support the mission, or, worse, there is no mission, OR if there is a great deal of inauthenticity we feel miserable and want to somehow "fix it."

YES - "Mission" is the perfect word too, one I've used myself to describe what I need in a job and what I'm lacking in this one. I am not willing to perform in a way that is not consistent with the "mission" as I see it, even if it is expected of me as a function of my job. I've left jobs over that point and I've gotten into conflicts with others over it. I've had people say to me things like "This is not a hill worth dying on" meaning that whatever I was taking a stand for was not really that big of a deal. But you see, to me it is. It comes down to personal integrity.

And, there have been times when I felt like my mission was at stake and there were people who were acting in ways contrary to it. I did act in ways to "fix it" though usually with poor results such that I ended up flat on my rear while others who had no investment in the mission and who were not at all sincere about the quality of their work could waltz off without any damage whatsoever. I got left with the egg on my face, accused of taking things too personally!

And, I've been kicking myself for not having better "EQ". I've struggled with that - and to be honest it has seemed like a bit of a conundrum. There have been numerous occasions when my intuition and interpretation of other's moods has been right on. But, now that I think of it, that has generally always been on nonverbal cues. It is words that trip me up. So it would seem to suggest to me that I have the most trouble when the words don't match the cues I'm getting. Is that possible? So, naturally, I would be confused as to how to respond and IT REALLY BOTHERS ME! I look for the actions to match the words and too too often they DO NOT.


Here's something I found, see if it fits! (PM me if you want the link):

"Working INFJs tend to be devoted to what they believe in and seek work where their needs, values, and ideals can be deeply engaged. They move on the wave of their inspirations and are determined to see that their values are worked out in their lives. They will work toward their goals individually and, when needed, will put together a team of other highly dedicated people like themselves. They are personable with others, working with integrity and consistency, and they follow through on their commitments. INFJs, while concentrating on what is important to them, may ignore the political ramifications of their actions. They can be surprised by the necessity of being political and usually resent that aspect of organizational life. Being able to talk honestly and comfortably to people at work is much more important to them than 'playing games.'

Yes, yes, yes to all of the above. I am passionate about my work, when I have challenging work that I believe is of value. I am single minded in pursuing that work, and when I am in pursuit of it and I have to deal with someone who is beating around the bush or dissembling, I am impatient and angry about it. It may seem corny, but I have a personal code of integrity and I follow it into the ground. Makes me seem pretty rigid and inflexible at times because not everyone could understand that....

INFJs orient themselves toward their goals using a personal, values-based framework. They do not 'advertise' their values and priorities because they believe in harmony and positive relationships. However, one would do well not to underestimate the amount of perseverance, energy, and time INFJs give to their priorities. What they do, they do with an almost religious intensity.

Absolutely.

ADHD is both a blessing and a curse in this context. Hyperfocus is like a dream state when at work, rolling along toward my mission. But, when I am scattered and unfocused, the draw of that "mission" is a powerful motivator.

The INFJ external environment may be only partially organised. Their internal environment, by contrast, is anything but haphazard. Their ideas need to fit into a coherent whole that has the pieces in place. Organization of the internal world takes precedence over organization of external world.

Yes, the work I am most talented at is taking very technical information (accounting, financial, legal, regulatory mumbo jumbo) and translating it into plain English so that it can be understood and applied by "laymen". Ultimately it is imposing order onto the outside word, but it is conceived and developed internally, all in my mind, until it has assumed the coherence and order that it requires. I don't have to approach my research in any particular order or pattern. I just collect it at random like a magpie and sift through it. Things just spin around in my ADHD brain until the patterns emerge.

INFJs prefer occupations that focus on the big picture, involve conceptual awareness, and lead to a better understanding of the spiritual, emotional, or future needs of people. They want their work to have impact and meaning and for it to bring them admiration and respect.

Yes, absolutely! Is this why they told me I was "making it all about me"?

While INFJs can and do enter all occupations, some are more appealing to them than others. These include clergy, education consultant, English teacher, fine arts teacher, librarian, psychiatrist, psychologist, scientist, social worker, and other occupations that allow INFJs an opportunity to make their own creative contribution."

I didn't get a feel for what exact type work you are doing, but my question is, is it in line with your value system, and do you see how it can have a positive impact in terms of people's lives and furthering what you think is important?

Yes, I believed it would.

INF's tend to be champions of the underdog, and we introject the suffering of others as if it's our own, so if we feel like people are being treated badly or unfairly, it REALLY bothers us and it's almost impossible for us to stay out of it.

Yes, I've certainly rushed in on behalf of others where I would never go for myself. There has been some of that involved in this current situation, because I knew I was not the only one unhappy. Just the only one making noise.

Also (I know this is a lot but it's been on my mind today!) I'm wondering if your intellectual capacities are being put to good use.

No. I was promised a senior manager level job and responsibilities and have been relegated to staff level work. I'm bored and stifled. I have no mission, purpose, or direction. I still have the title and the salary though. Go figure.

What we DON'T seem to understand as NFs, because it seems WRONG to us, is that other personality types 1) sometimes value the organization and running it efficiently above what any individual "feels" about it, 2) enjoy the challenge of "working the system" to their advantage (think: politicians), and kind of think people of our personality type are oversensitive pantywaists, 3) care about status and appearance in a way our type is simply loathe to.

Thoughts?

You are right. I don't understand 1, 2, or 3!

Your posts have been real eye openers for me. I really appreciate your taking the time to post and PM the link for me. I'd love to hear more!

The work politics thing has been a sword that I've impaled myself on many a time.

As far as I can figure, there are several aspects to it.

People lie. People finagle and stab others in the back to get ahead. People feel like they want to be one-up. People see work as a game that they want to win at all costs. People suck up to the boss by putting their coworkers down. AND THEY DO IT KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THEY'RE DOING IT!! This is SO far against how "our type" functions in the world that we don't "really" believe it, even when it's right in front of our eyes. We try to explain away blatant bad behavior because we can't believe people would do such things. It's like something everyone understands but we don't, a "color-blindness" to the functioning of the human pecking order.

NOT only do other people ACCEPT it, but they WORK it to their advantage and don't feel bad about it. If you aren't finagling, well, you don't want it badly enough. If you did, you would play the game, too. How can you win a game you aren't playing?

People's actions and words don't match because 1) they lie and 2) they are so full of lies sometimes that they can't tell the difference anymore. They stink so badly of inauthenticity, and have for so long, that they become inured to it and can't "smell themselves" any more, so to speak.

If you are relatively emotionally stable, your intuition will be right a great, great majority of the time when basing your assessment of the truth on body language and subtle cues.

Which leaves those of our type in a wierd position. We don't "blend" well. Wherever we go, we tend to make friends because of our genuine caring for others, as well as our famous listening ear (most people just don't care to really listen to other people, which seems weird because to our type people are little bundles of fascinating stories just waiting to be discovered) -- but as far as making it to positions of leadership in most corporate (or dysfunctional) type settings . . . isn't going to happen.

Not because we aren't intelligent, or capable, even, but because . . . well, it's like we're functionally disabled when it comes to the game -- and people in positions of authority can tell. They just don't see us 'fitting in'.

People of our type tend to be like the "canaries in the mines" in an organization. We're choking on the fumes of other people's unspoken discontent, feelings of being underappreciated, or the craziness of a power-hungry boss, while everyone else is like, "Hm, something isn't quite right." Things that barely register with other people are like blaring horns to us.

The "you're oversensitive, taking things too personally" is something I've heard about a million times on the job. I worked with people with disabilities, so I would be furious and ready to go on the warpath over some mistreatment or slight and most other people were like, "well, just get over it." It made me crazy.

I've got much more, but I've also got a toddler who needs some attention :). Glad to be of some help to you!!

Being one of the intuitive non-fitting in people in the workplace I've enjoyed reading this thread. I'm left to ask a few questions though and am very interested in anyone's replys. How can we use our sensibilities to our advantage? Can we do this in a way that does not betray what we value and believe in? What are the best career options for those like us?

Oh crap.

I have another meeting scheduled with my supervisor and HR rep next week.

Just when I thought things had settled down and were going to work out ok after all. I am really nervous about this...I didn't have enough sense to be worried last time, now I am a wreck.

crap crap crap

Have you ever thought about a career change that's perhaps, more ADHD friendly? I'm sure there are things in your life you could work on and streamline but, as all of us know, sometimes a little understanding goes along way with 'us'.

Do your best at changing what you can. Be honest and ask them to do the same. And like I have mentioned before, have an exit strategy or at least a vague idea thereof. I wish you the best Pro.

D

Have you ever thought about a career change that's perhaps, more ADHD friendly?

.....have an exit strategy or at least a vague idea thereof. I wish you the best Pro.

D

Well, it appears I will soon be embarking on a career change. They've given me 30 days to find another job in the company or I'm out. sigh.

Thanks though D!

Ah Pro. So that means they aren't dismissing you, they just want you to change positions? This could be a good opportunity, couldn't it?

I hope so...Supposedly there are going to be several positions posted in the next couple of weeks that I'd be qualified for. That's what they said anyway, and said "Of course we'll help you anyway we can."

I wanted to say: You mean like you've been helping me all this time? But I didn't.

The job posting process is notoriously slow in my company though.... so I did ask what if I'm interviewing for something and I don't know yet if I'm hired or not at the end of 30 days? They made some kind of noises but it was pretty non-committal.

My husband is more freaked out about it than I am right now. That really awful meeting in which they told me I needed counseling was so much more humiliating/devastating that this.....

I had until the end of this month to find another job in the company or I was out. The good news is that I did find one - a good one too! Better than I could have hoped. I haven't accepted it though... because....

The good news doesn't stop there - I also received an offer from another company out of state. It's a good one also! But, it is out of state...

And, I have another interview with a third company (local) tomorrow. It is the second interview and it looks like it is good so far.

So, I guess I am landing on my feet.

I'm not sure which I will choose, but I have to decide something by the end of this week. It will be a relief regardless. This has been a very grueling summer...

At first I didn't talk too much to my coworkers about what happened at work, but lately I have been spilling the beans a little more, and I am really gratified by the reactions I have been getting. Basically just shock. People have been saying they can't believe that anyone would think I was hard to get along with or too emotional. They are horrified at the way I was given a deadline and are expressing worry about "who's next?"

Even people who work in my own department - right along side me - have said this! :eek:

Of course, this is all confusing too. I kept asking myself (still am) why would they say the things they did (that I am too emotional, need counseling, etc.) if they weren't true? Yet, how can it be true when so many people are expressing disbelief when I tell them about it? I don't know... still just don't get it. Or when I think I've got it, I get confused again....

Hi Procrastn6r

Great news about your job possibilities, that must really be a big boost.

Maybe there are a couple of things going on in your old job.

Firstly you appear to be the one to carry the flame to fix things, sort things out etc. That kind of behaviour really annoys insecure managers. I know....because I do it all the time. Then the manager(s) want to sideline you and often they will put their own predjudices into other peoples mouth during assessments.

Secondly it may be that some of your co-workers got a little uptight with you over small things and water cooler gossip being what it is this got blown up a bit. Now it has hit your employment and there's a bit of guilt going around and people realise just what an asset you were despite your occasional lapses.

kilt

Could just be bad management. I mean, do you have a history of this sort of thing? If the answer is no, you might look at other avenues. This reminds me of a situation my wife ran into a few years back at a job. She was fired for the first time and her employer made all sorts of crazy accusations about her as a professional and her job performance. I worked at the same place for a short time due to the nature of the work. Due to this, I knew how the office ran and having previously worked with my wife(in archaeology) I knew she was a hard worker and had a great work ethic. Everyone at the job made it clear that the employer was very easy going about work schedules and they all came early and left early or vice versa as needed. This was never a problem. Next, my wife was supposed to work on reports which meant she had to be in on meetings and privy info. She was basically kept out of the loop and never given all the info needed. Needless to say, after 3 months of this the employer dropped this bomb on her without further notice or talks to discuss improvement. She was devastated, since she had never been fired and had such a strong work ethic. It took her a long time to get over it. But, she finally realized her strengths were still valued and that words of one or a few shouldn't always be a stigma.

I'm not relating this to say your situation is the same and you don't need counseling, or that you do need counseling. I simply want to convey that sometimes the problem lies with the other end and you simply have to move on to better things.

I wish you the best whatever you decide.

D