Is it typical for ADHD youngsters to have some inability or delay in learning from mistakes and past patterns?

Yes. (Forgetfulness?)

I don't necessarily forget my mistakes, but I certainly don't learn from them. I'll always be rationalizing some crap to myself in the heat of some belligerent optimistic streak about how I'm going to somehow magically do better this time and things will be awesome and I'm not going to **** up like last time, blah blah. And then I repeat the same dumb mistakes again and again.

As far as mistakes are concerned, I will make the same mistake several times, then have kind of a "quantum-jump" and my skill level will pop up higher than most of the people who learn "slow and steady"...

I figure it is simply a matter of mastery. Most people are "thinking" about what they are doing - and we are simply doing. Mess it up several times and BAM - you have that problem fixed on auto-pilot for the rest of your life.

What do you think?

I agree with forgetfulness and impulsivity affecting how we stop repeating mistakes. "Not learning from mistakes" is a symptom of some disorders; FASD comes to mind.

FASD comes to mind.
Any other disorders come to mind? FASD not possible. :D

I REALLY appreciate the comments so far, as they help me to understand my son better.

My main concern is over school this year. He will be starting high school, and I have arranged for him to have an ADHD coach/tutor. It is not acceptable to have a repeat of the past in any way, shape, or form. Many low grades and failures due to not getting assignments and turning them in, lack of followthrough, not using the agenda, years of scrambling to get his work done when he realized it's due and he "forgot." He has, however, become more motivated, and shows a sincere desire to do the work and get the grade, and he's getting better, in little baby steps, I just do not understand this inability to "get it." He really still needs to be watched like a hawk with his work so he keeps everything (including self-esteem) up.

Dad does not want to have a tutor, that DS should learn from his mistakes. Welllllll, DS has had PLENTY of opportuntiy to do that and has not, and I am not waiting any longer for him to "get it," and I need to let go, hence the coach. The psychlogist who did is evaluation recommended that DS NOT go it alone yet. For those of you who do have this issue, would you feel insulted or have any negative feelings over this kind of intervention or remediation?

Will continuing to have a "hovering" individual keep DS from learning to "take over" on his own or will the professional know how to best teach him to take over? What do you think dad's issue may be with the tutor/coach? He wouldn't make it very clear to me other than he says that DS needs to learn on his own. But, from past, that would mean that he would fail on his own. You know, be the master of his own.

I really appreciate the comments, thanks so much!

Well, remember that although he is fifteen, he might really be at the maturity level of a twelve year old. Many twelve year olds struggle with organization and need help with it. My son was always very organized - still is, but my daughter and I will probably always struggle with it in some way. I don't see a tutor as a "hovering" entity. Hovering implies being attached at the hip. I highly recommend reading / listening to the work of Barbara Coloroso. Your local library may have recordings of her lectures that you can listen to in the car. Our local college has some.

Hey - I have a bit of really, really bad news.

I got terrible grades growing up. I dropped out of college...and never overcame any of the "problems" you are talking about with your son...

AND my parents used to say the same types of things - like: "It is not acceptable to have a repeat of the past in any way, shape, or form. Many low grades and failures due to not getting assignments and turning them in, lack of followthrough, not using the agenda, years of scrambling to get his work done when he realized it's due and he "forgot." "

Yet, I am now 30 years old, have a rock-solid family, am a self-made millionaire and don't have to "answer" to anyone else. I spend my days doing what I love, and what I am good at.

I don't have to worry about "turning things in on time" because I set up my life to play to my strenghts and I NEVER focus on "fixing" my weaknesses.

So, I beg you - don't try to fight against your son's behavior. Either enroll him in a school that is focused on helping kids with ADD/ADHD to use their gifts - or just know that your son is most likely WAY smarter than all his peers and eventually he will figure it out...

but only with your help. believe me. Frustration isn't the way to go.

all the best!

Any other disorders come to mind? FASD not possible. :D

I REALLY appreciate the comments so far, as they help me to understand my son better.

My main concern is over school this year. He will be starting high school, and I have arranged for him to have an ADHD coach/tutor. It is not acceptable to have a repeat of the past in any way, shape, or form. Many low grades and failures due to not getting assignments and turning them in, lack of followthrough, not using the agenda, years of scrambling to get his work done when he realized it's due and he "forgot." He has, however, become more motivated, and shows a sincere desire to do the work and get the grade, and he's getting better, in little baby steps, I just do not understand this inability to "get it." He really still needs to be watched like a hawk with his work so he keeps everything (including self-esteem) up.

Dad does not want to have a tutor, that DS should learn from his mistakes. Welllllll, DS has had PLENTY of opportuntiy to do that and has not, and I am not waiting any longer for him to "get it," and I need to let go, hence the coach. The psychlogist who did is evaluation recommended that DS NOT go it alone yet. For those of you who do have this issue, would you feel insulted or have any negative feelings over this kind of intervention or remediation?

Will continuing to have a "hovering" individual keep DS from learning to "take over" on his own or will the professional know how to best teach him to take over? What do you think dad's issue may be with the tutor/coach? He wouldn't make it very clear to me other than he says that DS needs to learn on his own. But, from past, that would mean that he would fail on his own. You know, be the master of his own.

I really appreciate the comments, thanks so much!

Thank you for sharing,Tellman, do tell, what would have helped or did help you those years in school with these kinds of issues? Or, what help did you have that didn't work with you and/or your personality? What was or would have been the best approach for you in your teen years? What kinds of things work for you now, to help with organizational isses, and followthrough, and just keeping track of things that need to get done?

I am so happy to hear that you are doing well, despite your past. I don't want to be the kind of parent that is trying to mold DS into something he is not. I've never been a parent of a teen before, and I want to be part of his strength, not his weakness.

Is it typical for ADHD youngsters to have some inability or delay in learning from mistakes and past patterns?

I think it's very common in young people with ADHD to be unable or slow in learning from their mistakes. I am 16 and I have loads of trouble learning from my mistakes.

I put this down to impulsivity and the fact that people with ADHD tend to 'live in the moment'.

Say for example I got angry at someone and went to hit them (I wouldn't this is just an example :) ). All I would be thinking is the here and now, how do I feel now? Then the impulsivity stops me from being able to fully think through the now, the past and the future. I only had time to think about what i'm feeling now and didn't have enough time to think about what happend in the past when I had hit someone before and what would happen in the future if I hit them now. So I hit them.


I hope that makes sense I'm not doing well on the whole concentration thing today. :rolleyes:


My main concern is over school this year. He will be starting high school, and I have arranged for him to have an ADHD coach/tutor. It is not acceptable to have a repeat of the past in any way, shape, or form. Many low grades and failures due to not getting assignments and turning them in, lack of followthrough, not using the agenda, years of scrambling to get his work done when he realized it's due and he "forgot." He has, however, become more motivated, and shows a sincere desire to do the work and get the grade, and he's getting better, in little baby steps, I just do not understand this inability to "get it." He really still needs to be watched like a hawk with his work so he keeps everything (including self-esteem) up.

One thing that works with me with the homework thing is:

I write down my homework straight away, (before I was able to remember that my teacher would do it for me)
I would place the homework in a book that I am currently reading so that I will definatly open it and see it.
Once I get home from schoolopen my book and see my homework.
I stick the homework straight on my wall as soon as I see it. The wall is the opposite wall to my bed so whenever I wake up I will see it.
Instead of writing down the date of when the homework is due I write down how many days away it is. This is because to me a date is just numbers and I don't pay much attention to dates. If I know how many days there are then it will motivate me to do it.
Also you can use the 'broken record technique' which my school and my mum used for me. This is where you ask your son to do his homework, then if he still hasn't done it come back to him again and ask him again and again and again. But not like nagging. Everytime you ask him, ask him like this is the first time you have asked him. That way he won't get frustrated with the nagging.

IIRC, it's called Perseveration. (sp) Or at least is SURE SOUNDS LIKE IT, in metaphor.

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Theme:
People persisting at unsuccessful strategies for problem solving, despite evidence that it isn't working. :S

The person is 'stuck'.

It is as though SEEM unable to add the new knowledge they should have acquired [from previous Errors] into their problem-solving Repertoire.

e.g. 'error analysis' isn't being used to improve their future problem-solving.

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In problem solving, or "life", we are always adding new strategies to help us solve our problems right? In the bigger picture, Darwin called this "Adaptation".

I have empathy for you, b/c I clearly have this sort of problem with Calculus, and the other higher College math courses I have tried. :S

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I think Dr. Daniel Amen talks about it as being a form of his "Overfocused ADD". (Or one of the subtypes of his.)

Hmmmmm, you ALL have given me some really great introspections on your personal perspectives, and I really appreciate your sharing them with me. Please keep them coming.

QueensUGirl, you hit the nail on the thing about being STUCK. DS's dad is just that way, and it has always frustrated the bejeebers out of me why he would continue on a particular way when it clearly was not working, rather than come up with a new strategy.

Boone1, your strategies are fabulous, totally out of the box, and I will share them with my son. Does your mom kind of oversee your schoolwork too, and have you come to her to check over things? If you do, do you mind it or appreciate it? I like the broken record technique. I have used this a lot when working with Alzheimer's, and can certainly bring it home as well. GAD, anything to ease the frustrations on the homefront, and be more easygoing about it.

From what some of you have said, this may just be a part of who he is, and i should stop trying to "fix" this part of him. :-) I'm getting it.

Is it typical for ADHD youngsters to have some inability or delay in learning from mistakes and past patterns?

I have a hard time figuring out exactly what the pattern is, never mind what to change. It is hard to stick with changes especially if they do not serve the same function that the old pattern served. {darn cat}

Lets take a look at some of FrazzleDazzle's list with her son sense she gives some excellent specifics {clawing me ouch}

Many low grades and failures due to not getting assignments and turning them in, lack of follow through, not using the agenda, years of scrambling to get his work done when he realized it's due and he "forgot."

Low grades - okay how low? Failing or simply not what you are wanting? There is a difference here. Not being prefect or making all A's and B's isn't failing, making straight C's is still successfully passing.

Whose agenda are you speaking of here. I ask because I suck at following other people's agenda. . . . I haven't a clue if it is due to stubbornness or ADD, probably both.

Lack of follow through - this is a common ADD problem. . .out of sight out of mind. . . . or it is boring and we would like to forget it completely.

The last minute rush - my personal favorite. My husband still does this some times I want to strangle him even though it was my way of pumping up the olé adrenaline so I could focus forever. . . .boring doing a stupid assignment ahead of time excitement waiting until the last minute, Gary can not make himself focus on some thing due next month nearly as well as he can some thing he had to have yesterday. Gets the olé adrenaline pumping and BOOM he can focus like no one business.

In Gary's case I try to employ strategic procrastination. . .now if I could only apply it to myself. . . . . :faint:

Strategies that fail may be failing and acknowledging the number one priority that that is whom they are designed for. . . .you can not change your son only encourage modifications with a few behaviors. When I need to modify some thing at work with Gary I do best if I modify them along side who he is as a person. In other wards I stick to his current status flow {chaos in motion} and only employ minor tweaks. {using a hammer when necessary :rolleyes: }

I certainly can relate to not learning from mistakes - I have been doing that for nearly 40 years... still haven't found my way around it apart from talking things thru with my counsellors/doctors. But at least I try to implement their advice instead of being stubborn & trying to crash thru myself!

As far as mistakes are concerned, I will make the same mistake several times, then have kind of a "quantum-jump" and my skill level will pop up higher than most of the people who learn "slow and steady"...

I figure it is simply a matter of mastery. Most people are "thinking" about what they are doing - and we are simply doing. Mess it up several times and BAM - you have that problem fixed on auto-pilot for the rest of your life.

What do you think?
Yes! That explains exactly how I learn a lot of things. I will repeat the same mistake, each time remebering immediately after that it had happened before....but never remembering before it happens. Then all of the sudden one day it just works and I "know" how to do something. It goes for actual learning stuff ( like guitar lessons, or school stuff) as well as the little everyday life stuff (I left my lunch dishes in the sink AGAIN!...or learning how to deal with people or whatever)

As for school...I was like this the whole time...combined with being a teenager...not so good. My advice would be to find something that works with the way he works, instead of trying to change how he works. Working with the skills and strengths that he already has will be so much more effective than trying to make him do something new. Of course, learning new skills to deal with add and everything else are important, but start with the easier stuff. Involving him in the entire process is key because add'ers are much less likely to do something that is imposed upon them rather than something they "choose' to do themselves.

Learning Styles, Culture & Hemispheric Dominance (http://www.mathpower.com/brain.htm)

I research this while keeping a beat to Alan Parsons on pandora.com (http://www.pandora.com/) this should give one clue to what kind of learner I am. Oddly enough I am getting fewer of the letters backwards and fewer squiggly red lines as I type.


Learning Styles: Holistic or Global Learning (http://homeworktips.about.com/od/homeworkhelp/a/global.htm)


for more resources on the subject of learning

Misunderstood minds (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/misunderstoodminds/resources.html)

I am one who was told she was retarded because I could not spell or pronounce words however I understood them just fine. I do not depend on such things to understand my word or your for that matter. If your child is different give them the edge up. . .tell the schools to kiss you neurodiverse a** if you must.

The best thing my mother ever did for me was accept me and work with who I was instead of expecting me to be some thing I was never meant to be. Remember you are one person your child is another, he/she may perceive the world entirely differently, they may learn concepts before steps, they may be meant to work with their hands while you may be more of an academic person.