I have read about how ADD decreases one chances of succeeding. However I have noticed that many of those who make these claims are basing their definition of success based upon what they have become.

Who determines weather or not we are successful?

What is your definition of success, and who defined it for you?

Exactly what is success any way?

Specific examples. . . . .


I think some of our failure lies in the fact we have not yet defined success for our selves.

Money - The basis for comparison. All other aspects removed, you NEED money to NOURISH YOUR BODY, EXPERIENCE DIFFERENT PLACES AND ART FORMS, AND SURVIVE IN MODERN SOCIETY.

If you make 30k per year, and thats the best you can do - You are successful. If you have 100k per year and thats the best you can do - You are successful.

The problem lies in WHAT IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO? Well, the best I can do without medication is 14 dollars an hour working a job I despise, living the lifestyle I hate, and being a lazy freakin bum.

With medications, I can study hard and obtain an advanced degree or certification in the field of my choosing. I then can earn the money I need to survive, spend it on experiences that will bring me joy, and remember to get all those things done that make me a happy person.

So I guess for MYSELF, Success is defined by your ability to achieve all you can with what your parents have given you. Happiness comes not from a specific career choice (although this is important as well), but from the progressive realization of a goal that has importance to you.

Someone thinks its important to help others. Someone else thinks its important to help themselves. You may think its important to rise high in your job, while I may think its important to experience loving relationships.

Regardless of what you think is important to you - the ultimate goal in your life is MONEY, because without the green paper youll have no food, no shelter, no friends, no love, and no new experiences (other than the experience of begging for the money you need)

So take your medications, and work hard at your goals. We adders were given the short end of the dopamine stick, and the only way to compete with those who got the branch is to focus intently, work dilligently, and read our goals every free minute we get.

I agree that the definition of success is very much related to the perspective taken while defining it. I believe most associate success with monetary resources of some sort, and right along with it, getting married and having children. Again, this is the “typical” viewpoint.

If we are looking at this from an effort perspective as 2Busy2Think writes, the situation becomes a bit trickier. Another NT society bad habit is to assume that everyone is like themselves, just varying in degrees of intelligence and diligence. For example, disorganization in one's life is usually taken as laziness, especially from the viewpoint of the naturally organized person. After, he thinks, if this person is as intelligent as I am, he should also be able to put out the work and thought required to be organized.

Another good one... and I'm quite certain this one was purely assumed or is a representation of a “distorted” viewpoint, is the “connection” between vigilance and intelligence. The typical may think... if I can sit down and drive through all these exciting tax forms, then this other person should be able to do it in half of the time (as he is supposedly twice as intelligent). If he can't, then it's because he is lazy (because I know he can do it because it's a measured, implied ““fact”” (two sets of quotes to drive the point here :))).

We could also connect this directly to money if we wanted to. We could also connect intelligence to social skills (though it many cases, it may be inversely proportional instead). While we're at it, we could also connect intelligence to spelling and knowing an encyclopedia full of facts! (Because many do seem to make that connection, as meadd823 would know, and so would I (intuition and speculation are looked down upon in my current line of work)).

This is all the standard linear thinking we have come to know and expect. Nothing is multi-dimensional. Everything is simple and obvious (because if it wasn't, it might make the majority look less intelligent, and we can't have that!) Success is also linear, simple, and obvious. :rolleyes:

I suppose if success is making others think that you are successful, then the definition of success would be the typical most likely. My goals are less related to money (though I don't want to be poor), but more on accomplishments (what can one create, etc...). That is one advantage that we do have. Most are not focused intently at changing the structure, but going along with it. Thus, there is much less competition in this area. It's not necessary to see who can watch the flowers bloom and the grass grow. There are areas where this is not a necessity. Some have different strengths than others, and there is no point of trying to accomplish something that is infeasible to accomplish and holds little reward at the same time. (Even if you can watch the grass grow, will you be able to do it consistently in the future?)

in my opinion its very simple success is having options because if you have options you are obviously either very rich or powerful or influencial... those with options are seen by other as being in control and not being needy or pathetic and not only that but if YOU have options you feel great becauseyou get to choose w/e it is you want to do and you have power and control over your life :)

success=having options

Very good quote my grandmother told me before she died:

"Success is getting what you want; happiness is wanting what you get."

and I think 2Busy2Think really hit it on the head - what = success is different for a lot of people.

Most people consider themselves sucessful if they are holding down a good paying job, making house/car payments, and have a significant other/family.
For some people, 30k is good money, for others 50k is good money, etc.

Those are the types of people that 'play it safe.' Once they get that job - they keep it and just go on with life. They may never become millionaires, but they are SAFE - no big risks, everything is kind of 'set in stone' pretty much.

The people who become millionaires (the people who actually EARN their millions, not people who inherit money like Paris Hilton, etc.) are the people who take risks in life. To them, it's a challenge, almost a 'game' of sorts. These are the people who aren't content to just be 'SAFE' for their whole lives - these are the people that want to be their own boss, that want to be able to have so much money that (eventually) they'll be able to just live off the interest that their money generates.

To me, that's the definition of being truly rich - if you have so much money, that you can finance your lifestyle solely from the interest that your money generates.;)

you can finance your lifestyle solely from the interest that your money generates.;)
man that would be nice

If I'm happy I'm successful. To be happy I like to have the respect of those who I respect.

If someone respects me because of what I have then I am unlikely to respect them.

Money will not make me happy per se, it will make life easier, but strangely it appears to drive away those that I respect and attract those I do not..

Great topic Mead!
I think money is part of it.
If you make your bills, you are successful.
If you have money left over, you are successful.
But I agree that if you are happy, you are successful.
Depends on how you define it, that's all it comes down to.
Sure, I'd love to have several hundred thousand dollars in the bank, where I could buy a nice house (a larger one than I have now), pay off both cars, etc.
I don't have those things, but I do make my bills, I'm happy with what I have, not elated, but happy, and I have no real complaints.
To me, that's success.
Plus, I pushed myself and got a college degree, when I was originally told by several educators I'd never get out of High School. :D

OK, her is my standpoint,

Sucess: the state of acchievement

I could walk up to anyone, and say "Hey, I just beat halo" that is sucess isn't it? (yes)

Then someone comes along and says "Hey, its a game, its a freaking waste of your time, and your life, get over it"

However, what if you were, for example, someone who plays halo for a liveing (believe it or not, there are 7 individuals who do such a thing, the most well known is "Fat1ilty")

Someone cant quite put you down the way before useing the underlined...

Sucessfull: A long lasteing state of sucess

This kinda gets on my nerves, because everyone wants to say that "Sucess is money"

No...not rly, Money is just the most accepted way to credit your sucess, into "sucessfull"

Get it? did I explain this well?

This kinda gets on my nerves, because everyone wants to say that "Sucess is money"

No...not rly, Money is just the most accepted way to credit your sucess, into "sucessfull"

Get it? did I explain this well?

Yes I get it very well Vhan you explained it just fine.

but let me ask you this is money the way we credit success or they way we show it off to others?

Would a guy living on the streets still be successful if it is his intention to be a bum to begin with? Yes it is a trick question. . . . .

I was hoping to get some thinkers on this thread and I am happy to see that I have. Often we go though life without really knowing what success is to us, which is why I think many ADDers feel like failures. Not that we ADDers are less able to succeed but that we as a group are less apt to specifically define what success is to us as individuals.




If I'm happy I'm successful. To be happy I like to have the respect of those who I respect.

If someone respects me because of what I have then I am unlikely to respect them.

Money will not make me happy per se, it will make life easier, but strangely it appears to drive away those that I respect and attract those I do not..


Wow I really think you make a valid point especially the part about money making life easier and people who like you for what you have and not for who you are aren't people worthy of respect. Hmmmmm


Users is what we call them here in the south. . . . . :mad: I don't care much for 'em myself.





Plus, I pushed myself and got a college degree, when I was originally told by several educators I'd never get out of High School

Wow now I can see success. . . I really like those kiss my neurodiverse a55 successes . . . .I agree one defination of success is defying those who thought you would not be able achieve squat.

See getting a college degree was your definition of success. . . .when you achieved it you knew it because you had a definable obtainable marker in which to base your opinion of yourself upon. You were successful and you knew it because you have previously defined it then set out to achieve it. . .better known as achieving a goal. I say way to go man.

Do you thing achieving encourage you to make other goals to reach for to further your success?





Most people consider themselves sucessful if they are holding down a good paying job, making house/car payments, and have a significant other/family

Does this mean you think the majority social opinion is who should define your success or is this your definition?


To me, that's the definition of being truly rich - if you have so much money, that you can finance your lifestyle solely from the interest that your money generates

success=having options

So according to your own defination you are a success because you do have options.


I disagree with the idea that only rich and powerful people have options. I think drunks, bums, and drug addicts have options. We all have options do we not?




This is all the standard linear thinking we have come to know and expect. Nothing is multi-dimensional. Everything is simple and obvious (because if it wasn't, it might make the majority look less intelligent, and we can't have that!) Success is also linear, simple, and obvious

LOL Highfunctioning I simply enjoy your response. . . . I agree making success some thing less obvious would rather screw up the linier world would it not!

How obvious is it in reality?


I suppose if success is making others think that you are successful, then the definition of success would be the typical most likely. My goals are less related to money (though I don't want to be poor), but more on accomplishments (what can one create, etc...).

or experience/cram into one life time. . . . . the same but different.





Some have different strengths than others, and there is no point of trying to accomplish something that is infeasible to accomplish and holds little reward at the same time. (Even if you can watch the grass grow, will you be able to do it consistently in the future?)

Good point. . . . . I do not believe money can buy happiness. Normally my observation is the more money one makes the more they tend to spend. So really when one makes a lot of money is he making it for himself or the makers of stuff {creators / inventors} and creditors?







Money - The basis for comparison. All other aspects removed, you NEED money to NOURISH YOUR BODY, EXPERIENCE DIFFERENT PLACES AND ART FORMS, AND SURVIVE IN MODERN SOCIETY.


What if modern society gets on my nerves and I do not want to live in modern society. I am sure hunter gathers experienced different places without the need of money but then again they did it before modern society.

If I am nourished, and I have experienced different places and art forms I am successful. . . .wow I rather like that because it is amazing how little one can make a actually do all these things.

2busy2think I think you are thinking about a lot of stuff but you are connecting it very well.

So I guess for MYSELF, Success is defined by your ability to achieve all you can with what your parents have given you. Happiness comes not from a specific career choice (although this is important as well), but from the progressive realization of a goal that has importance to you.


I think you jumped ahead of me on this one which is great, but do we not choose our goals in life based upon how we define success?

I have read about how ADD decreases one chances of succeeding. However I have noticed that many of those who make these claims are basing their definition of success based upon what they have become.

Who determines weather or not we are successful?

What is your definition of success, and who defined it for you?

Exactly what is success any way?

Specific examples. . . . .


I think some of our failure lies in the fact we have not yet defined success for our selves.You do.

In other words, if you say to yourself I want to be a doctor in fives and in five years you're a janitor you have failed.

And yes you can define success by happiness.
But some people find happiness in having enough money after their bills to go party and eat out, or in going to a job that they love everyday that at least compensates them fairly.

success = doing what you like

ARe you doing what you like to?

i like being alive and thats success to me

On the one hand, success is too often seen as having the most money or toys ... I have always had the view that money is only useful for what it can do. We all need money to survive, pay the bills etc but it is only part of the equation of life. Happiness is more important than money, as long as ne has enough money for their needs to survive. I went in to see people at my old workplace today and most of them were very happy to see that I was a lot happier than when I was workign there (at the end). That is the most important type of success for me - for other people to be able to see that I am genuinely happy in my life, especially the people who were quietly giving me moral support when I needed it.

At the end of the day, I think that success is defined by each person according to what they decide constitutes success, and it is a personal thing.

What I think makes this topic so diffacult, is that by the very nature of sucess, its largeley in the hands of someone else

Think about this with me, Remember my expample of the halo player?

It revolved around one crutial point, the opinion of the person saying the underlined...


Now, there is a alternitive, you can just have that opinion on your own, but then all kinds of little things get shot your way, you get blamed for

bragging,
Being full of yoruself,
snooty
high opinion of yourself,

Because if you have genuine idea in your head that your are sucessfull and your not going to reply on outher peoples opinions to juge that, the "outher people" tend to not like that idea....

Sucess.....I really really wonder if its all its chalked up to be,

several people in this thread have said things like "sucess is doing what you like, sucess is doing what you want to do"

But I beg to make a argeument here.....Success:


1 obsolete : OUTCOME, RESULT
2 a : degree or measure of succeeding b : favorable or desired outcome; also : the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence
3 : one that succeeds


That is one way to describe it, Success isn't defiend by doing what you want to do, (liniar thinking...I know im gonna get flamed for that later lmao)

So, if sucess isn't doing what you want to do, and its not enjoying your job.....what is it?


Its a desirible outcome, weather you like it or not attittude that gaines you favor with peers, who in the end valadate your with all you need to wave the little flag that says "sucessfull"

IT IS A TITLE! (in the attittde that I am looking at it in)

A title that can be stripped from you for stuiped reasons,


I guess what I am getting at is maybe there are TWO kinds of sucess?

Hmmmmm......

You do.

In other words, if you say to yourself I want to be a doctor in fives and in five years you're a janitor you have failed.


If you definition of success is that limited then the answer would be yes you have failed to become a doctor. This isn't to say janitors are failures especially if they are content in that position.

The point of the thread is. . . .

If you want to go, how will you know weather or not you have arrived unless you have a destination. Not having an idea of your destination will have many ending up where ever it is you run out of gas, which is some place but not necessarily where you wanted to end up.

My point is that one will never know weather or not they are successful unless they have a definition. The ADD condition is rarely without some personal talents and interest therefore our problem is not out of lack of ability however we often do not have a personal definition of success therefore we are endanger of ending up where ever it is we run out of gas, which is some place but it may not be where we want to be. If you do not like where you ran out of gas does it make any sense to attempt to obtain a destination in the same non-directional manner?

What I think makes this topic so diffacult, is that by the very nature of sucess, its largeley in the hands of someone else

Perhaps it is due to our age difference but I do not agree with this at all. Others can influence our success but they can not decide for us. When living at home with parents yes it may look very much like this however in the adult would I have experienced most people are not interested in my success. They are interested in their own. If helping me success increases their success then they become interested however if my success doesn't influence their own they are generally not interested, Even worse if my success would compete with theirs then they may be more untested in my failure than my success. It behooves me to know weather or not my success is a threat to any ones else's or if it would enhance some one else's and act accordingly.



The definition of success being used here is

The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted



So my question could read

What do you wish to achieve, what do you desire from life?,Do you have any specific plans as to where you wish to go in this life? Are you making an attempt to reach a certain goal?

When it is all said and done what do you want to become? Where do you want to go from here? Why?


Much like the analogy I used above in my response to ginnal, if you do not have a definition of success how will you know when you are successful?. I have seen people who achieved many things but still consider themselves to be unsuccessful. When asked what determines success they haven't a clue, They had no direction because they lacked a definition so they never arrived. They spent countless years going this way and that achieving this and that but never able to enjoy their own achievements. . . . They in essence arrived several times but never knew it. . . . what a colossal waste of precious time that we each have in limited supply.

Reality is- the more you make the more you spend. PERIOD. I really want to stress the 10% rule- save 10% of what you make before you pay any bills. Pay yourself first and that money is off limits.

I make really good money but I have alot, Alot, ALOT of overhead!!! AND Regis has just informed me that I have used up all of my lifelines... I am COMPLETELY behind the eight ball right now, and every month. THAT'S LIFE! I am tired of having to come up with ten to twenty g's a month and my wife makes me feel like I am a big FN loser because of her insecurities...

Crazy is not limited to ADD'ers!!! :)

I feel better now! Wish me luck! Rough waters ahead...

am I rambling?

In closing, SUCCESS is how you feel and carry yourself. You really do have to ENJOY THE JOURNEY. So many people are focused on obtaining a large sum of money and then when it does happen, guess what? you still have bills, you are still you, and you still have to make a living, and if you spend it, you have to start over. IT NEVER ENDS. So, enjoy what you do.

SUCCESS is an Illusion. It can be taken away. It can be had again.

Thanks mead, your last post kinda got me set strait :p

Ok, in this new light...

hmm...defineing sucess for myself so I know when I have achived it Hmm?

...Wait WHAAAAAAAAAAAA~! +fireworks start going off+

I'M ALLREADY SUCESSFULL! NO WAY!....

Ok, I better explain what just went through my head at the speed of raceing thought.

I ponderd to myself, ok...

Well I would be sucessfull when (DOsh my mom keeps bothierng me I keep loseint my train of thought....)

So I thought to myself, My wish to achieve : Being one of the greatest game designers this side of the pacific : as well as the usual goals to go with that, graduwateing fullsail university, etc etc,

Then there are all these outher kids I see who I envy because I look at them and I see something special.....Then I kick myself down because Im not like them.....

So I never, NEVER consider myself sucessfull.....

However, somehow in this twisted train of thouthgt I have going, I re-examine them with the ideas of what I have going for me and what I AM TRYING TO ACHIEVE,

and suddenley things change.....

(This is all very very hard to communicate because Im seeing everything in picutres here....so wierd, anywya)

So maybe these kids can make some awesome vids on youtube....but that won't help them be good game designers1?

I mean, my goal is to be the best game designer, ( now the image is a garden...it lookes pretty)


But...if thats my goal....and I realize all of that, add it up, divide it up among my experiences, and ideas, and thoughts, and every outher thing in my head now, I realize something....

What I AM doing is Sucessfull, because it is leading me towards sucess.....Maybe im not this creative showcase of walking talent that outher kids are....

But they aren't trying to be a game designer like I am.....

and I mean.....What I do have is pretty kewl....Experience with 3d modeling, and animation programs, the violin, paino, Drawing, and just Troves, and TROVES of outher stuff I have done, and do that add up to so many experiences that I never know when that perspective will work its way into a idea that could turn into something special...

I hope this post is makeing some kind of sence, becuase it doesn't to me, I have no idea of how I came up with this in about 2 seconds flat...

+sigh+ eh, hopefully this post isn't annoying...or anything, eh..sorry if im spamming..

I just read something that reminded me of this discussion: success is not about making money, it's about making a life. And yes, Vhan, success is not just limited to adults.

A professional academic I know told me his young son was embarrassed about working at _ _ _ _ _ (fill in restaurant chain of choice) while he decided what he wanted to do with his life out of high school. His wise father told him not to worry about where he worked, just make sure you are the best employee at _ _ _ _ _ .

That's why I get frustrated with parents and teachers who use working at _ _ _ _ as an example of what's in store for people who don't get an education. The reality is, for some people, that is the best they can do. Is it right to make people feel bad for doing the best they can? Not everyone has the ability to go to college / university and they shouldn't be made to feel less successful than others who can.

There's the "hedonic theory" which came from some lottery winners back in the '70's. Though they were happy for a short time after winning they soon reverted to lower levels of happiness, similar to others in their peer group.

There is an article on this and happiness in this months Scientific American. Interesting reading for an ADDer.....apparently its quite hard to get into a happiness routine and it takes a bit of structured thought and action. If not maintained happiness levels revert to ones base level of happiness.

If not maintained happiness levels revert to ones base level of happiness.

There is evidence that we are born with a "set point" for happiness.


dan.org (http://www.dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=5514&p=4)

The Set Point for Happiness

Happiness is both a general state of being and the result of specific time-delimited events. Psychologists have established that each person has an average overall level of happiness at any particular period of life. When you ask someone whether he is happy, he usually answers quickly and with assurance, reflecting his appraisal of the average during a relatively recent period. This average state, or baseline, has been defined by researchers such as David Lykken, Ph.D., as a “set point” of happiness,11 in the same way that a stable level of glucose concentration in the blood is set by the body or the temperature is set for a refrigerator.

Different people have different set points of happiness. Discrete events, such as the day you marry or have your first child, or when one of your parents dies or you are fired from your job, cause a sudden temporary increase or decrease in your level of happiness. But most people almost invariably return to their set points at some time after the especially happy or unhappy event. Moreover, the set point is normally above neutral—most people lean more toward being happy than unhappy—and unhappy events have less influence and are more quickly forgotten than happy ones.

The general set point of happiness can be modified downward by chronic disturbances, such as depression, or upward by medication. Some antidepressant drugs, for example the serotonin reuptake inhibitor fluoxetine (Prozac), actually seem to be able to alter the set point in some people, leading to such drugs’ being dubbed “personality cosmetics” and “happy pills.” Cognitive behavioral therapy may also have this power.
***End Quote


Money and Happiness - Vhan I am afraid you may have been closer to accuracy than you realized.

OKay but is success and happiness one in the same. One can be successful but not be happy and one can be happy but not successful?

I see them as seperate {so I have choosen to cut this post in half and use it to begin another thread.}

I will admit that without happiness I do not see much need for success but I have a feeling not every one will agree with me on that.

When I began this thread I typed up a post,I it was for another thread but I choose to chop the response in half and not to post it the second half because I felt it was straying off topic. It was the second half I chopped off that inspired this discussion. It had do do with my defination of success. Highfunctioning came close mine which is kind of the same but different.

Now if I can only remember where I put it. . . besides some where on my hard drive. :o

Success is an individual journey, so this is my opinion based upon my own version of this journey.


Last November frustrated with all the politics and rubbish, I walked off from a profession in medicine to fix other people's trash. . . I repair certain things that are discarded by companies and business. They save on dump fees, the stuff doesn't end up in the land fill, I repair things that are sold to others at a discount price {at a used price as opposed to a new} So no I am NOT talking house hold garbage - please keep your used kitty litter . . . . . am I successful?

Did I give up success for failure? Am I insane? . . . Many people talk about how they want to save our natural resources and how they believe in recycling but for many it is just that all talk. They do not even save the aluminum cans. Gary and I save tons of stuff from being put into land fields and we prevent tons of trees for being cut down ever week. There is little social status for people like me but I do successfully lend a hand in preventing the human race from successfully burying their selves in their own waste material . . . literally. I will more than likely die leaving behind a "carbon surplus"{meaning I saved more energy than I used}

What I have a given up is fear, I quit living up to expectations that were never my own. . . . I didn't have any so I lived others. . . .by the way I can walk right back into that medical profession or maybe brush up on my drafting skills and do that out side of my own personal use. I have unloaded trucks stalked shelves roofed , run clinics set up doctor's offices from scratch.

Many ADDer complain that they can't decide on a profession, so who said you had to pick ONE? I can do a couple and be decent at it.


Last November I did what so many only dream of doing. . . . that is saying F*** the NTer system I am dong it the ADD way. I don't have to be bothered with all the mind games and politics. I decided I am going to be proud of who I am so I quit trying to be what I didn't want to be.

No matter what I didn't give up I didn't give in and I damn sure ain't playing normal any more. I don't have to. . . . .now success is?

Being productive without ever giving up who I am.

Education is important but not as important as learning, and life is about learning who we are and what makes us tick.

Success in my book is cramming as many different lives into this one life as possible. . . .like Highfunctioning's succes is all about the inventing and making thing work correctly mine is about experiences but I too create and my job also requires things work correctly. I also want to live my beliefs as opposed to just speaking about them.