Hi there. My son is 7 years old. He was diagnosed with ADHD lat year. We have been seeing a psychiatrist for meds for several months. We have tried Concerta (18, 27, 36 and 45 mg doses) adderall xr Low dose, too much anger and self loathing coming off it) and we are currently on our third dose of Focalin (40 mg) Nothing seems to work on all fronts. The Concerta seems to help with focus but not with hyperactivity. The Focalin seems to have similar limitations. he still has a lot of low frustration tolerance and he seems to have some verbal ticks if that's what they are (He gets on a word or sound and makes it over and over and over to the point its maddening but does not seem able to stop) Its not constant but frequent. His psychiatrist has suggested upping the Concerta to 54 mg but that seems awfully high for a little boy who is barely 50 pounds. He has also suggested an antipsychotic to help with some of the frustration but that scares me. When do we say "enough is enough" and settle for some alleviation of symptoms but not all? Any advice? Thanks for reading my book here!

That would have to be your decision as the parent. I finally said enough is enough when they wanted my 10 year old (weighing less than 50 lbs and barely gaining one lb a year) on 5 meds a day. I decided it was time to work on the root cause and not just the symptoms. We started a dairy free diet which has been quite succesful, she is still hyperactive and there are days that she still has issues. But she is sleeping better, eating better and her focus has actually improved. We did this through her counselor not her 5 pill a day doctor (who mind you is no longer her doctor) There are some posts on here by MGDAD who took the same approach, food allergies seem to be rampant. I discovered some of her closest friends have dairy or soy allergies as well. We also realized she is allergic to corn too. Best of luck in whatever you decide. I hope things work out.

"Root cause?" And the proof of what this is is where, please? I am talking clinical data. ADHD is an inheritable brain difference, it is NOT caused by allergies. Allergies may make an existing condition worse, but they do not and never have caused ADHD of the true kind.


AFAIK the "root cause" is not something one needs to know in order to treat something. For example, the "root cause" of cancer is not known, but we do know that chemotherapy among other treatments can be helpful.

Same applies to ADHD.

OP this decision will ultimately have to be yours, since it is your child. I do not know why an AP at a low dose to help alleviate other symptoms "scares" you. I take them and my 11 year old daughter takes them, for over a year, with no ill effects to speak of.

Optimal dosing of ADHD stimulants has to do with relief of symptoms. It really has very little to do with height, weight, age, gender, etc. If he loses his appetite, you might want to consider adding nutritional supplements like shakes to his diet to boost his caloric intake.

If it were me (which it clearly is not) :) I would ask my SON how he felt about his symptoms. He may be utterly miserable, and be willing to seek relief of symptoms himself. ADHD meds can be likened to glasses for the vision impaired. They help us to 'see' what we cannot see without them. Sure, we can see somewhat without them, but it leads to a lot of headaches and it is extremely frustrating to know that those glasses are out of our reach. Make sense?

HTH! And good luck to you in reaching a decision that is best for you and your son.

"Root cause?" And the proof of what this is is where, please? I am talking clinical data. ADHD is an inheritable brain difference, it is NOT caused by allergies. Allergies may make an existing condition worse, but they do not and never have caused ADHD of the true kind.

All I'm saying is that she was possibly thrown into the ADHD diagnosis w/o any consideration as to HOW her diet was contributing to her behaviors. As I said, she has improved alot since doing away with some of the food categories, her last diagnosis along with the 5 pills a day was to see if she was Autistic spectrum disorder, and all the reading I've done talks about how these children crave the very foods they are allergic to, which of course she was doing, and they contribute to the issues these children have. Eliminating them has made a difference and for me (who willingly admits no medical experience) doesnt need any clinical data, if it works, it works. And I for one am glad it has.

Since it's genetic, eliminating the root cause might involve suicide ;)

Joking aside, there's certainly a case to be made for other factors in her behavior. ADHD symptoms do not manifest themselves solely in people with ADHD. If her doctor was good, he should have ruled out every other (known) causes through blood tests, a physical exam and a history. But from what I've read in this forum, seems like most doctors are pretty clueless about ADHD.

A good diet, adequate sleep, love and plenty of exercise should be the first things anyone should get if only for general health and well-being.

"Root cause?" And the proof of what this is is where, please? I am talking clinical data. ADHD is an inheritable brain difference, it is NOT caused by allergies. Allergies may make an existing condition worse, but they do not and never have caused ADHD of the true kind.

All I'm saying is that she was possibly thrown into the ADHD diagnosis w/o any consideration as to HOW her diet was contributing to her behaviors. As I said, she has improved alot since doing away with some of the food categories, her last diagnosis along with the 5 pills a day was to see if she was Autistic spectrum disorder, and all the reading I've done talks about how these children crave the very foods they are allergic to, which of course she was doing, and they contribute to the issues these children have. Eliminating them has made a difference and for me (who willingly admits no medical experience) doesnt need any clinical data, if it works, it works. And I for one am glad it has.Let me see if I have this right.

What it seems to me that you are saying it is possible that your child does not, in fact, actually have ADHD, but instead manifests ADHD-LIKE symptomatology due to food allergies. Am I right?

I happen to agree with some of that above, you know. I do not have to know the chemistry behind why medications combos work for me or for my child. I put it like this:

I don't need to know the exact chemical process by which the ingredients become pudding. I either have pudding or I don't. The flavor of the pudding makes no difference, as long as in the end I have proper pudding and not a runny mess.

BUT...I asked for your data because your first post seemed to indicate that there exists a "root cause" for proper ADHD in food allergies, and since I have ADHD myself? I want PROOF that the information I have gotten all along is dead wrong. Understand? Thanks for clearing that up!

Since it's genetic, eliminating the root cause might involve suicide ;)

LMAO...that was funny. How about a full frontal lobotomy too, since the differences lie specifically in the brain? :D

I dont find any of this amusing!

Whats does every child complain about when they are puts on these meds? STOMACH CRAMPS!!!! Why? Cause there bodies DONT know how to process the harsh chemicals. What happens when they have food allergies? STOMACH CRAMPS!!!! Why? Cause there bodies DONT know how to process the food!!!!!!

As people who have ADHD diagnoses, Pedalpounder and I might have different reasons for laughing and, in fact, different senses of humor than some other people. I, for one, was laughing at my own self here. Sometimes if you do not find something amusing, you will become sucked into something depressing.

I am sorry you got so upset by this Neon. It certainly was not intended to upset anybody, just a way for those of us who live with this daily to let off a little steam that has built up over time.

And I am truly sorry that some children with food allergies get stomach cramps. I myself have some food allergies...allow me to elaborate on them a little bit.

With regards to my own food allergies, I get different reactions from different foods I happen to be allergic to. Sometimes the result is a truly terrible headache. Sometimes the result is indeed stomach cramps. In the case of one of my allergies, my tongue gets a pins and needles kind of feeling. In short, my reactions to foods I happen to be allergic to vary, and cramps do not factor into it every single time.

Furthermore, I have eliminated all my problem foods and guess what? It has not helped my ADHD one iota, not that I can tell, but I am a severe case and might easily have been distracted when that change came about, if it did at all.

I take stimulant meds and so does my child. This has not *always* resulted in stomach cramps for us (we have changed meds several times in the process of finding what works best for us, like many people do). So to state across the board that ALL children ALWAYS complain of stomach cramps after ingesting ALL stimulants would be erroneous because there is at least one child sitting in the next room over from me who has NOT *always* complained of stomach cramps.

************************************************** ****************

Now that all of this has been said, allow me to don my moderator's cap and direct this thread back to the issues presented by the OP, who came here for assistance and advice. I am sure the OP's intention was not to view an ongoing debate that exists in certain areas of the forum.

To sum it up:

When do we say "enough is enough" and settle for some alleviation of symptoms but not all? Any advice? Thanks for reading my book here!
I am sincerely sorry for this slight veering off-topic, XineBTX. I am hopeful that you will be understanding and realize that this happens a lot around here with so many ADDers posting daily. No offense meant!

I had horrible food intolerances as a kid. Wheat bran would give me splitting headaches, oats gave me heart burn so bad I'd nearly pass out and I had flatulence from legumes to the point that the school contacted my mum about it (of course, they decided I was 'doing it on purpose', so the food intolerances were never addressed). When I was 18, I became aware of my own food intolerances and started adjusting my diet, and I've been free from digestive problems ever since. It hasn't done one iota for my ADHD of course (or the many other neurological problems I have), other than that I can now be fuzzy and confused in greater comfort than before. Same with suppliments and exercise; they let me be healthy and look good while I'm fuzzy and confused.

I agree with Crazy~Feet; ask your son and go by what he says. If he wants to stay on a particular medication or if he wants to come off it, let him. He's the only one who really knows how they're affecting him, and medication can bring about enormous benefits when it works.

I am sorry too Crazy~Feet, I am just bothered that my child shows obvious food allergies and yet the doctor only wants to label her ADHD, OCD, ODD and Austistic spectrum disorder. It took her counselor to realize that she was food allergic. My little one does not find her "issues" amusing , she see's them as a handicap, she knows she's different and her friends always call her weird and EMO, thats not how I want her to grow up. For the first time in her life w/o meds and dairy she is able to be herself and she is gaining weight (at 60 lbs right now and eating me out of house and home, which has not happened in the past, she is showing signs of physical maturity, etc) and all because she's off certain foods and no meds. Since being dairy and med free her friends are now saying she is the happiest they have seen her and that she's not EMO anymore. To me this is major, and sometimes people just need to sit back and realize that maybe there are other ways besides meds. I truly hope XineBTX finds his way too, but making a suggestion about food allergies should be just as respected on here as those who believe in medications.

kids on the autism spectrum sometimes don't respond well to medications. They also often have digestive problems, which makes them feel poorly so they act out a bit more.

A simple blood test will turn up irregularities if an allergy is present. I'm sure the doctor has done blood work by now. You should ask the doc about that.

Autism can look like ADHD, ocd, anxiety disorder, mood disorder all rolled into one. It can be a tough thing to accept.

A healthy diet will certainly do no harm and if the child has a food sensitivity, will feel better, and thus act better, but will still be autistic.



ME :D

Thanks Speedo :) I agree.Proper nutrition cannot hurt at all. I cannot agree that it will cure anything other than malnutrition...and sometimes the diagnosis really IS ADHD.

LMAO...that was funny. How about a full frontal lobotomy too, since the differences lie specifically in the brain? :D
ty ty. Good joke opportunities like that are few and far between. I couldn't resist. Must be the ADHD...

kids on the autism spectrum sometimes don't respond well to medications. They also often have digestive problems, which makes them feel poorly so they act out a bit more.

A simple blood test will turn up irregularities if an allergy is present. I'm sure the doctor has done blood work by now. You should ask the doc about that.

Autism can look like ADHD, ocd, anxiety disorder, mood disorder all rolled into one. It can be a tough thing to accept.

A healthy diet will certainly do no harm and if the child has a food sensitivity, will feel better, and thus act better, but will still be autistic.



ME :D
he's done blood work but only tests for anemia which she was born with and was corrected through eating vegetables. Other than that he hasnt bothered to take the time nor my suggestion to do food allergy testing. Basically it comes down to a country doctor that doesnt seem to have a clue. I dont see the autism due to the fact that eliminating certain food groups has made postitive changes. If she was really Autisic spectrum disorder would the removal of foods really change her that much?

I am beginning to pity the OP. This thread is moving wildly off-topic and that's not something the OP deserves when there is a legitimate issue they'd like dealt with. :(

if anyone who has posted in this forum would like to talk about something OTHER than the original topic, please start a new thread.

to get back on track, here is the original post:


Hi there. My son is 7 years old. He was diagnosed with ADHD lat year. We have been seeing a psychiatrist for meds for several months. We have tried Concerta (18, 27, 36 and 45 mg doses) adderall xr Low dose, too much anger and self loathing coming off it) and we are currently on our third dose of Focalin (40 mg) Nothing seems to work on all fronts. The Concerta seems to help with focus but not with hyperactivity. The Focalin seems to have similar limitations. he still has a lot of low frustration tolerance and he seems to have some verbal ticks if that's what they are (He gets on a word or sound and makes it over and over and over to the point its maddening but does not seem able to stop) Its not constant but frequent. His psychiatrist has suggested upping the Concerta to 54 mg but that seems awfully high for a little boy who is barely 50 pounds. He has also suggested an antipsychotic to help with some of the frustration but that scares me. When do we say "enough is enough" and settle for some alleviation of symptoms but not all? Any advice? Thanks for reading my book here!

I think this is a rather common problem. Lots of medications being prescribed, but they just don't seem to work, or they work poorly.

For about 20% of the people who have adhd, meds won't work. (I got that number from my md).

Sometimes the diagnosis is just plain wrong and the meds won't work at all.

Also, everyone is a little different and some people are more different than others so now and then someone gets an effect that is totally different from the norm... a different med schedule is necessary there...

For the rest of us, we are hoping that we get on the right medication or right combination of medications on the first try. That seldom happens.

Sometimes the problem is complex and it requires a suite of meds to do tha job (sometimes called a coctail).
In any case, it requires close observation and a good dialogue with your doctor to get the medications adjusted properly so that the best benefit is achieved. If you fail at this your results will be less than desirable and maybe the meds won't help much at all...

It's a tough situation. The thing to do is to become well versed in the effects the meds create... the beneficial effects as well as the side effects, so that you can talk to your doctor in a language that both of you can understand.

I'll tell you about getting my meds adjusted:

I have ADHD combined type with anxiety disorder NOS.
My situation is complicated due to the fact that I have a history of epilepsy, and by the fact that I have sensory issues.

I started out on wellbutrin. It worked for attention , but whenever I took a dose large enough to be theraputic, I 'd develop tons of anxiety and anger.

On top of that I was having troubles with my hearing leading to hyperacusous and sound was making my life miserable.

I asked the doctor for neurontin as an effort to reduce the effects of my tinnitus and hyperacusous... it helped a lot.

I still had ADHD and anxiety, and the wellbutrin that was improving my attention was causing enough anxiety that it was exacerbating my incipient OCD brought on by anxiety. It was NOT fun. At this point I was taking 150 mg wellbutrin sustained release once a day.

About this time the doc puts me on risperdal to reduce anxiety and things improved a lot. 0.5 mg , once a day.
I was still having problems with anxiety and ocd, but I was getting by, but my attention problems were not being treated very effectively.

I talked with my doctor about it and we decided to try tenex. I started on a small dose and titrated up to 0.5 mg 4X a day, but eventually had to reduce to 3X a day because it was making me too lethargic.

Tenex is very good for reducing hyperactivity and helps reduce anxiety, but it does nothing for attention. It does work well with wellbutrin or stimulants as an aid to attention.

After a month on tenex only, My hyperactivity was gone, but my attention problems were quite severe. I talked to my doctor about it and we tried a small dose of fast acting wellbutrin in the morning, and it did help attention a lot.

After a couple of months it seemed like that strategy was not working so well. I asked the doctor if I could go back on the wellbutrin xl, so we did, and my attention improved tremendously, but the high anxiety was back.

To keep the anxiety under control I suggested that I switch the risperdal dose to twice a day and after some discussion my doctor changed my risperdal dose to 0.25 mg twice a day, with the option to add a third dose when needed as a reduce med to help me avoid problems with sensory overload.

This is my present "coctail", and it is working rather well.

My point is that you can't just take the pills and expect a miracle. You have to make an effort to overcome the condition, and you have to actively manage your medications . This means you need to be self aware and always working on the problem.

With a child it is not that easy. You have to manage the meds for someone else. This means you have to ask that person questions , you have to watch that person for effects good and bad, and you have to communicate it all to the doctor when evaluating the next step. Getting it right is a lengthy trial and error process, but it can be done and people do it successfully all the time.

ME :D

Thanks everyone for the advice. My son also has sensory issues. I guess we just have to keep trying until we find something he can live with. he doesn't like being angry and he does like feeling involved in school. I want him to have a sense of control over his own behavior. The psychiatrist is very hands off though. Just prescribes meds. Maybe we need a new doctor. Problem is my pediatrician is not that knowledgeable about ADHD. I have done more research on it than she has. Finding the right doctor seems to be its own issue. Anyway thanks for the responses!

XineBTX, I have sensory issues and so does my one child, and we both take a very LOW dose of antipsychotic medications for this. It works very well and its a huge relief to have that sensory distraction tamed.

I do not personally know of any other type of medication known to work as well on sensory issues as certain APs. I do know that APs are useful, again at very low doses, for anxiety issues as well. I am talking about extremely low doses here...like I take 5 mgs Abilify for a dose, whereas the dose for true psychotic symptoms is more like 300 mgs.

Sorry - wrong thread.