View Full Version : Doctor isn't sure...


Sky81
08-02-07, 08:04 PM
If I have ADD or not.

She told me to read a book called Driven to Distraction….

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder last year. I have had several manic episodes and I behave recklessly and get myself into trouble (like driving recklessly, reckless spending, etc). I get dangerously depressed and sometimes have mixed episodes (which is when you are depressed but manic and totally sucks).

One thing I have whether I'm depressed or manic is the attention span of a flea on meth.

I had loads of problems in school as a kid....so bad that special ed was recommended. My mother was very against medicating me or putting me in special ed, so I moved around from school to school. I was a late talker (very late), and I had odd behavior as kid (autism was also suggested and my mom didn't want to hear it). I didn't even make it out of high school.....

So as an adult I'm not without issues.

Amazingly enough I graduated college (and early too...I was 19). See it's not that I'm not smart...I've got a decent amount of intelligence.....

I now work as a chemist....actually a cosmetic formulator……

So here are the problems not resolved by the antipsychotic and anticonvulsant....

I still have the attention span of an insect...no really it's that bad. I can get in my car and start driving and a second later I have no idea why I left the house to begin with....it has taken me over three hours to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich....

All that was chocked up to mania. But I'm not manic and medicated, so why can't I focus on anything???

At work I start ten things but I can't finish one. I don't actually start working until about lunch time, and I end up staying late because I have such a hard time actually finishing something.....Like I'll make a batch and wait until an hour after I'm supposed to leave to put the labels on the jars.

This bugs my boss big time, but not enough so that I haven't been promoted three times in the past three years that I've been there....

So I'm only 25 and a Senior Scientist most people who have my position are well into their thirties.

This means my boss expects way more of me....and I'm having a hard time getting my act together.

My chronic lateness doesn’t exactly please her.

My problem is my inability to focus on one thing at a time....and to finish what I've started. I have a zillion great ideas but can’t seem to start working on any of them.

My boyfriend says when I talk I often don't finish sentences, and when I write I don't even bother to finish words....I skip letters a lot and this also happens when I type...so it can be a problem at work when it's required that I write or type something my boss or director has to see........

I will walk into other labs at work and just say...whoops, sorry, I don't know why I'm here. I do this a lot....

All this happens regardless of whatever episode I happen to be in....it's just as bad when I'm depressed as well as when I'm manic.

My doctor isn't sure if I am in a constant state of hypomania and that's why I can't focus, or if I also have ADD.....

My sister has bipolar disorder too and my dad has one of the worst cases of ADD known to man and can't even lead a normal adult life without constant supervision (he's been in over 20 car accidents and his finances are a train wreck....oh and he will let months, even years of mail accumulate without opening anything (even bills)....and he can't be bothered to ever clean his house or wash his dishes)...

I see a lot of my dad in me and I'm wondering....is it something else that is making me a total space cadet???

speedo
08-02-07, 11:00 PM
ADHD is very common in people who have bipolar disorder and also in people who have autism spectrum disorders....and adhd also occurs by itself.


In reading you post, I get the impression that after all of these years you are not sure what your condition is.

I think you ought to ask yourself how far down the rabbit hole of modern medicine you care to go in raising this question. I would suggest to you that you should voice your concerns to your docotor, since as a scientist I'm sure that asking questions and getting answers will, while not providing a cure, bring a certain amount of peace of mind.


Me :D

meadd823
08-03-07, 04:07 AM
Bipolar Disorder in Children and Adolescents-Comorbidity (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/457723_2)


There is an asymmetrical overlap between the diagnosis of BPD and ADHD, as evidenced by a 91% comorbidity rate of ADHD among children with primary mania (reported by Carlson et al.[7]) as opposed to a 23% comorbidity rate of BPD among children with primary ADHD (reported by Biederman et al.[8]).[9*] To determine whether ADHD was an artifact of symptom overlap with other psychiatric disorders, Milberger et al.[10] studied 140 boys with ADHD, 15 of whom had a comorbid diagnosis of BPD. They used both a subtraction method and a proportion method to correct for symptom overlap between BPD and ADHD and found that seven (47%) and 12 (80%) of the children continued to meet criteria for BPD after the subtraction and proportion methods, respectively, were applied; all 15 (100%) of the children with comorbid ADHD and BPD continued to meet criteria for ADHD. Thus, the authors suggested that neither ADHD nor BPD was an artifact of symptom overlap.***End Quote

Sky81
08-07-07, 12:33 PM
So I've decided that I don't have ADD. It's merely an excuse for my increasingly bad behavior. I have to stop making excuses for being lazy. I have also decided that I'm probably not bipolar either.....I'm just impuslive and reckless and I don't have any self control. According to my boyfriend I just need to grow up and stop being such a baby, and should be responsible for my actions. I'm beginning to think he's right.

I think I really all I is need a good slap in the face, not medication. I should be able to control myself.

I'm 25 years old. I should have my act together by now. I need to stop using "mental illness" as an excuse for being a total failure in life. I really just need to get my act together. I can't keep making stupid mistakes and acting on every stupid impulse. I know I'm a bad employee.....constantly late, disorganized, with the attention span of a two year old. If my boss tells me "focus" on more time I'm going to totally lose it.

My boyfriend doesn't understand why I hate myself so much. If he were like me he'd hate himself too.

I'm going to be just like my dad. I'm probably never going to get my act together. I'll be just like him when I get older. Alone....53 years old making 150K a year, about to lose my house because I forgot to pay last years property taxes. But it's okay, my house is filled with garbage, animal waste, three years of unopened mail.....that'll be the banks problem.....

I'm not doubting that disorders like ADHD and Bipolar disorder really exist. But that's not what's wrong with me.....I'm just completly inept.

Imnapl
08-07-07, 12:40 PM
Sky81, are you taking any medication for your bipolar?

Sky81
08-07-07, 01:09 PM
Yeah, 300mg Seroquel at night. I also take Neurontin because the Seroquel caused some seizure activity (which felt like a three month long acid trip, until it got worse and I started having complex partial seizures). The neurontin stopped the seizures and also fixed my sensory issues.

I probably don't need either. If I stop the Seroquel the visual disturbances, synesthesia and seizures should stop eventually, so I won't need the Neurontin. It's my fault I have the seizures to begin with.....I fried my brain with LSD when I was a kid.

I really just feel that I can't use this stuff as excuses anymore. I know that these disorders exist and that people really do struggle with them, but I think that I am merely using them as excuses for my ineptness. I think my doctor was wrong.

Imnapl
08-07-07, 01:14 PM
Get a second opinion?

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 02:38 PM
Yes Sky, please seek a second opinion...because people with Bipolar disorders are famous for deciding that they no longer need medicines. They stop taking them...and become worse.

Neurontin is also used as a mood stabilizer, in case you didn't know. My child took this for quite a while.

I very much doubt that the seizures are caused by LSD use, personally.

Please see another doctor before discontinuing medication on your own! Bipolar is a progressive illness, you know. Without proper treatment it is inclined to get worse over time. It does NOT get better and it does NOT go away. As of this date, bipolar is incurable and results in lifelong treatment.

QueensU_girl
08-07-07, 02:42 PM
Sounds like you have a lot of EFD (executive dysfunction).

Psychotic disorders cause EFD too, as do many conditions that cause brain stress or keep it functioning optimally.

QueensU_girl
08-07-07, 02:46 PM
Why do you hate yourself? (Or is it non-verbal)

-------------------

You mention your Dad having problems with Hoarding.

This is starting to be acknowledged as a disability and mental disorder.

http://www.onpha.on.ca/conference_training_meetings/annual_conference_trade_show/archives/doc/2005/309_7.pdf

Sky81
08-07-07, 02:47 PM
What I need is for a doctor to officially tell me I just need to grow up and get my act together and even slap me in the face......but all they seem to have some kind of diagnosis to make and want to give me pills....then the pills cause soemthing else to go worng so I need more pills to fix that and so on.

She's not the first doctor to suggest that I have ADHD.....and not the first to suggest bipolar disorder either.....She's the first one I listened to....

I don't want to have to take yet another pill, and I really don't think pills can fix what's wrong with me......I need to stop messing up and I need to get my act together.....I don't think a pill is going to stop me from being late to work or help me stop making stupid mistakes, stop ruining my credit, give me motivation, fix my laziness, and help me to not procrastinate.

I'm sick of being such a lazy scatterbrain, but I really need to accept it and get over it. I don't need yet another excuse......

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 02:50 PM
I'm sick of being such a lazy scatterbrain, but I really need to accept it and get over it. I don't need yet another excuse......Are you suggesting that the rest of us with ADHD or BP or both are relying on excuses?

I get sick of my little cluster of symptoms too...but acceptance means taking them for what they are: BP and ADHD. There is no "getting over" incurable disorders/differences.

Sky81
08-07-07, 02:59 PM
Why do you hate yourself? (Or is it non-verbal)

Really I don't like myself much. I constantly undermine myself. I always mess up at work. I don't understand why I was even promoted. I constantly forget things my boss tells me, I procrastinate working on projects, most of the time I don't start working until lunch and I have to stay late to finish. I constantly hear my boss commenting on my inability to focus and how inattentive I am.......I'm sick of being reminded of it.

I get speeding tickets all the time because I don't pay attention to how fast I'm going (and once I lost my drivers licence for reckless driving and more than doubling the speed limit). I will go out and spend $5000 on who knows what...but I'm supposed to be saving for a wedding and a down payment on a house, and cleaning up my credit (which also sucks). There's really nothing good I feel I have accomplished. Every time I take one step foward I take ten back.....this has been going on all of my adult life. I wish I could just get my act together.

Sky81
08-07-07, 03:08 PM
Are you suggesting that the rest of us with ADHD or BP or both are relying on excuses?

I get sick of my little cluster of symptoms too...but acceptance means taking them for what they are: BP and ADHD. There is no "getting over" incurable disorders/differences.
No not at all. My little sister is bipolar and I've seen her in a manic state psychosis more than once. I know these are real conditions and people really do suffer from them. My sister has a really hard time and has been hospitalized five times.

I went once to the hospital because I was hearing voices (which now I think I must have made up in my head) and I was starting to scare myself, and I didn't want it to get as bad as how my sister gets.

I had a busniess trip coming up and I pleaded with them to not hospitalize me, and they said it would be reccomended but voluntary....so I oped out.

That was the worst this thing has ever gotten. My pdoc said it was a mixed state, but since I was depressed she also prescribed an SSRI which almost sent me to the moon....clearly I do not need more serotonin in my synaptic clefts.

My boyfriend was against me taking pills from the start (but I don't remember him lecturing me on dropping acid every other day when we first started dating).

Maybe I've been listening to him too much. According to him I don't need pills, I need to grow up.....

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 03:46 PM
My boyfriend was against me taking pills from the start (but I don't remember him lecturing me on dropping acid every other day when we first started dating).

Maybe I've been listening to him too much. According to him I don't need pills, I need to grow up.....I say this in the kindest way I know how to:

I believe this is a lot closer to the mark than anything you have stated so far! Unless he happens to be a licensed psychiatrist/psychologist, by some chance? I think that somebody needs to get over themselves...and I do not think that its you ;).

No not at all. My little sister is bipolar and I've seen her in a manic state psychosis more than once. I know these are real conditions and people really do suffer from them.
Did you also know that there is a strong genetic component to bipolar disorder? It runs in families. Bigtime. I myself passed the genes along to at least one diagnosed child...but in observing my grown children, I'd bet money that another has it, too. The manifestations for them both are somewhat different yet the core issue remains the same: cycling, extreme moods.

I went once to the hospital because I was hearing voices (which now I think I must have made up in my head) and I was starting to scare myself, and I didn't want it to get as bad as how my sister gets. I think its always easier to doubt ourselves when we get past this type of situation. I often seem to forget how terrible and crushing the depression can be for me...and some days, I miss the hypomania that gave me boundless energy.

That was the worst this thing has ever gotten. My pdoc said it was a mixed state, but since I was depressed she also prescribed an SSRI which almost sent me to the moon....clearly I do not need more serotonin in my synaptic clefts. Oh man, wow! It is slowly becoming common knowledge that SSRI/SSNRI class antidepressents are inclined to trigger mania/hypomania in BP patients. I know they do for me!

The fact that they sent you 'to the moon' speaks volumes, at least to me.

Jesse 7.0
08-07-07, 03:46 PM
Yes Sky, please seek a second opinion...because people with Bipolar disorders are famous for deciding that they no longer need medicines. They stop taking them...and become worse.

Neurontin is also used as a mood stabilizer, in case you didn't know. My child took this for quite a while.

I very much doubt that the seizures are caused by LSD use, personally.

Please see another doctor before discontinuing medication on your own! Bipolar is a progressive illness, you know. Without proper treatment it is inclined to get worse over time. It does NOT get better and it does NOT go away. As of this date, bipolar is incurable and results in lifelong treatment.


I learned my lesson of taking myself of meds. Please seek a second opinion if you have to, but don't stop taking your meds. Trust me... you don't want to go down that road.

Sky81
08-07-07, 04:15 PM
I say this in the kindest way I know how to:

I believe this is a lot closer to the mark than anything you have stated so far! Unless he happens to be a licensed psychiatrist/psychologist, by some chance? I think that somebody needs to get over themselves...and I do not think that its you ;).


Did you also know that there is a strong genetic component to bipolar disorder? It runs in families. Bigtime. I myself passed the genes along to at least one diagnosed child...but in observing my grown children, I'd bet money that another has it, too. The manifestations for them both are somewhat different yet the core issue remains the same: cycling, extreme moods.

I think its always easier to doubt ourselves when we get past this type of situation. I often seem to forget how terrible and crushing the depression can be for me...and some days, I miss the hypomania that gave me boundless energy.
Oh man, wow! It is slowly becoming common knowledge that SSRI/SSNRI class antidepressents are inclined to trigger mania/hypomania in BP patients. I know they do for me!

The fact that they sent you 'to the moon' speaks volumes, at least to me.



I'm not flat out denying that there is something wrong with my brain. I look at my family and I should know better that I am not able to escape my own genetics. My father is a hoarder (thanks for the info QueensU_girl....that's him to a "T"), and also has been diagnosed schizophrenic/schizoaffective and is a recovering addict. My sister has a pretty severe form of BPI and has a really hard time. A full time job is a big accomplisment for her, as is being complient with her medication.

I need to stop listening to my boyfriend. He knows nothing about mental illness and believes that the reason I act how I do is because I'm just immature. He's not open to learning about it either.

Yeah it took less than a week for Lexapro to induce mania, but it was actually a nice mania when it started....I was just simply euphopric, energetic, whitty, and my mind was really sharp....then I started climbing up the walls and wanting to crawl out of my skin and when I'd had enough I called my pdoc, and she upped the Seroquel and took me off the Lexapro before anything really bad happened. Then I started having seizures so go figure....

I am wondering now if the Neurontin is starting to act as a mood stabilizer (not it's intended use), and bringing me down a bit too far. I generally don't have this feeling of self loathing when I'm not in a funk (the term I use to define depression). That and the increased need for sleep and constant frustration could be the very last bit of hypomania departing. My pdoc thinks the Neurontin will only help my situation not hurt it.

Normally I have the attention span of a small child (and sometimes an insect), and it usually doesn't frustrate me like this. I was kinda ****ed that my pdoc brought up ADD, and I was hoping that my ADD symptoms were just caused by whatever episode I happened to be in and since I was never "normal" that I always was easily distracted and inattentive.

I'm guessing that maybe my problems focusing may be caused by something other than bipolar disorder, but I'm afriad to take a stimulant. I know my boyfriend won't be happy if I take yet another medication.

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 04:29 PM
I generally don't have this feeling of self loathing when I'm not in a funk (the term I use to define depression). That and the increased need for sleep and constant frustration could be the very last bit of hypomania departing.Yea, for me, this is the beginning for the decline into the depressive phase. I have been known to sleep 18 hours when depressed and wake up feeling exhausted.

I'm guessing that maybe my problems focusing may be caused by something other than bipolar disorder, but I'm afriad to take a stimulant. I know my boyfriend won't be happy if I take yet another medication.That fear of stimulants is a good,healthy fear. They tend to provoke hypomania in BPs who have not been stabilized and even in some who have been.

Its standard operating procedure to stabilize the BP then address the ADHD afterwards. It can be tricky to get these med combos right; it took me over a year...but I am an exceedingly stubborn person, too. ;) I don't give in easily and I don't give a hoot what other people believe in their ignorance. I am determined to live a life as close to balanced mood-wise and as close to clarity ADHD-wise as I am able to manage.

Sky81
08-07-07, 10:34 PM
My boyfriend is so quick to notice when I talk in broken sentences or leave cabinets open, and he will ocassionaly remind me that I'm insane when I act out, but when I tell him I have bipolar disorder he is the first to deny that I have anything wrong with me at all. So mentinoing to him that I may have another "condition" didn't go very well.

I'm okay if a stimulant causes hypomania. Hypomania is my "normal." I tend usually more toward the manic side (my pdoc thinks I actually am type I). I notice mania because I'm so wound up I'm about to crawl out of my skin.....my mind is racing so fast I can't do anything...I'll be climbing on the bench tops at work dusting instead of doing my work. I talk a mile a minute and no one can understand me.... and I start to get big plans......like really big plans. I once almost quit my job and went to medical school. Another time I almost quit my job to get a PhD. I plan on all the plastic surgery I need, and even look up surgeons (I'd never get plastic surgery in "real life").

Hypomania means less sleeping, forgetting to eat, being euphoric, and whitty, and amazingly sharp minded....I am the most productive at work, and even at home when I'm hypomanic. I work out more. I actually go grocery shopping and cook (when I remember to eat). I clean (a lot, sometimes obsessivly).....I'm basically doing everything right.

Sadly the older I get, that usually doesn't last long, and then the great ideas come so fast I can't write one down before the next one starts.....before I know it...it takes me three hours to make a simple peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and I'm looking up a plastic surgeon or applying to med school....and forget about getting anything whatsoever done at work.....

Before I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder I spend years self medicating (hence the excessive LSD, that one was the best)....and I found that meth didn't have the same effect on me as it seemed to have on my friends. They'd get all high and wired. I never felt much at all, and it used to make me calm and releaxed, even sleepy, but not high.......so needless to say after a few attempts I decided it didn't do much of anything.......I'm wondering if stimulants will have the same effect......

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 11:13 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, back up a bit...people diagnosed with BPI are more inclined toward true mania. The type that become psychotic. So for you a stimulant might trigger mania, and that's playing with fire, girl.

Sadly the older I get, that usually doesn't last long, and then the great ideas come so fast I can't write one down before the next one starts.....before I know it...it takes me three hours to make a simple peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and I'm looking up a plastic surgeon or applying to med school....and forget about getting anything whatsoever done at work.....
It seems to me that you are describing the transition from hypomania into true mania. I posted a few replies back, but I will repeat this...Bipolar is a progressive illness! It does get worse over time, white manias vanish and are replaced with the black type...the manias slowly decrease as the depression increases...cyclothmia becomes BPI or BPII transitions into BPI...and from these changes, there is no coming back.

As a person who has never had a true mania, but has had her fair share of hypomanias, let me share something with you: Hypomania isn't all that. At least it does not stay that way. It will gradually turn on you and become something...ugly. Besides, let's get brutally honest for a moment: Its not REAL. Its the product of some imbalanced brain chemicals. You can be at their mercy or you can choose to stand and fight...its up to you.

Its important in cases of known bipolar that the person be stabilized first before beginning treatment with ADHD stimulant medications...and that sometimes is not an option at all. Some people can take stimulants and not be triggered by them...and others just can't. There is no way to tell ahead of time whether they will be an option for you or not.

Sky81
08-08-07, 11:13 AM
I've only recently come down from being manic. I do take an antipsychotic, but I am not taking a mood stabilizer, unless you count the Neurontin (which my pdoc doesn't).

I guess I'll have to live with having no attention span and constanly messing up at work, even if I'm at risk of losing my job.....I don't want to risk psychosis, since that will make me lose my job much faster than being the lazy *** who messes can't do anything right, if she can even do anything at all......

What I love about mild hypomania is that I can actually be really productive....I'll get really task oriented, and actually start and finish things.

In any other state I'm a mess at work, and now that I have this new position, I'm at risk of losing my job, if I don't get my act together. Maybe I should just resign.....I've thought about it before.....I feel like I can't do my job anymore. I'm not manic, and I'm only mildly depressed if that......but I can't focus on anything for more than a few minutes, and I can't seem to finish anything I start. I know my boss is peeved (that's an understament)....I just wish I wasn't such a mess.....I really feel like a total failure.....I had a good thing going for a while.....but I think I'm about to lose it.....

Crazy~Feet
08-08-07, 11:59 AM
What I love about mild hypomania is that I can actually be really productive....I'll get really task oriented, and actually start and finish things.Man do I understand this, do I ever! Little did I know that under that undiagnosed, cycling bipolar person lay...a slug. Many times I think back on hypomania with something like fondness almost. Many times I do miss it and wonder "Hey maybe if I skip these meds for a few weeks nobody will notice, then I can get a lot done and go back on them." :o Which is of course pure rubbish. They would notice. Bigtime. I do the pressured speech thing you mentioned too. I can be in a fantastic mood and turn on a dime into a raging witch. As much as I miss that energy and the ability to function on very little sleep? Its just not worth it in the long run.

. I don't want to risk psychosis, since that will make me lose my job much faster than being the lazy *** who messes can't do anything right, if she can even do anything at all.... Admitting the possibility of psychosis is a very brave thing to do, Sky. That really took guts and I am really glad that you would prefer not to take that risk. :) Good for you!

Of course the comorbity rate between BP and ADHD is a huge one, and chances are that you do have ADHD...that's just the way it works, most of the time. Honestly, is there any logical reason that you cannot try to treat them both? I do. It makes a world of difference in my quality of life!

....I just wish I wasn't such a mess.....I really feel like a total failure.....I had a good thing going for a while.....but I think I'm about to lose it..... Please stop beating yourself up. ITS NOT YOU...its some messed up brain chemicals and those can be addressed. If you feel like you are gonna lose it in a mild way, by all means keep posting. The Cycling Team takes situations like this very seriously. If you feel like you are going to lose it bigtime? PLEASE call a crisis line, OK? There is only so much we are equipped to handle here, no matter how much we wish we could do more.

Sky81
08-08-07, 12:58 PM
. Admitting the possibility of psychosis is a very brave thing to do, Sky. That really took guts and I am really glad that you would prefer not to take that risk. :) Good for you!


It's not just a possiblity. It's happened before. It's actually what lead to me finally realizing that I need to start treating it. I experienced a mixed state last year....it started as a normal funk....I had all the signs...laziness, exessive sleeping, aggervation, frustration, irritability.....but then all of a sudden I couldn't sleep, and my frustation turned to rage, and I started screaming at my coworkers and throwing things around the lab....I went through a few cell phones....then I started hearing them....I looked all over my house to see where they were coming from...then I realized....they were in my head......so I let it go on for a few days....then I got help.


Please stop beating yourself up. ITS NOT YOU...its some messed up brain chemicals and those can be addressed. If you feel like you are gonna lose it in a mild way, by all means keep posting. The Cycling Team takes situations like this very seriously. If you feel like you are going to lose it bigtime? PLEASE call a crisis line, OK? There is only so much we are equipped to handle here, no matter how much we wish we could do more.

Noooo....I'm not going to "lose it" just yet (and hopefully not for a while)...the "it" I was referring to was my job.....I really think I can't do my job anymore.

I used to be really good at what I do, but now I can't seem to start anything and on the rare occasion I do, I can't finish it........I have so many unfinished projects going on......I constantly forget to do things my boss tells me, and I have a really hard time getting things done......This is different than the distractibility of mania, when I was so wired that I couldn't even brush my teeth with out getting distracted....I'm not manic anymore but I can't seem to focus on one thing and finish it.....I might have plans to start ten things, and not start one..........I can't seem to get organized.....I'll try to do something, then something else distracts me, so I don't finish what I started and tend to something else, finish half of it, then something else distracts me, and so on.....I this feels different than the distractibility of mania.......any very typical of me in general.......

My boss has told me I have great ideas but I never seem to follow through with anything.....which I'd hate admit, but it's true.......

Crazy~Feet
08-08-07, 01:43 PM
And therein lies the crux and the confusion about when BP ends and ADHD begins!

You sound, to me, like you have inattentive (possibly combined, I cannot say definitively of course) ADHD. There is a lot of distraction involved with that type. Like for me a biggy was cleaning the house...omg...I would try to start in one room, then suddenly remember something in another room, go to that room, become distracted by something else. Lather-rinse-repeat until totally exhausted and the house is STILL not clean...and beat self up for not being able to complete a simple task that a NT could accomplish in half a day, top to bottom.

I loved the analogy that HF came up with one day...I just searched for the exact quote and couldn't find it (boo!) so I will sum it up.

"Oh look! An interesting thought! And what's this? Why its another interesting thought!..." on and on and on, that's internal distraction. And you can be externally distracted away from internal distraction and vice-versa :faint:.

Distraction due to ADHD is maddening to say the least!

Now mania is different like you said. That's racing thoughts. They fly by and you have trouble catching them, and its maddening in its own way. The ideas can be grandiose, as opposed to just interesting. You cannot shut them off nor distract yourself from them more often than not.

So yes, the two are different and if you know what to look for, which you clearly do, they are not so hard to differentiate.

Sky81
08-08-07, 03:03 PM
The racing thoughts and the flight gradiose ideas aren't a constant thing.... ......that is only when I'm manic...

I totally get the cleaning thing......I will start cleaning my bathtub, then all of a sudden I'll start cleaning the kitchen, without finishing cleaning the bathtub, let alone the rest of the bathroom. Then I decide I need to vacuum my room, and end up mopping only half the kitchen floor....then I'll start cleaning out the fridge, but stop halfway...leave the fridge open, and I'll start doing laundry.....this is usually how I clean...

That type of behavior never changes unless I'm a) in a funk in which I don't clean at all, or b) when I'm hypomanic and I'm really task oreintated and I'll actually finish something before I move on to the next (oh how productive that little bit of extra serotonin makes me).......the state of my house is a pretty good indication of my mental state catually.....a spotless house means I'm headed for a manic episode so hide the credit cards....and the accumulation of coffee cups on my nightstand and a few cereal bowls on my desk and a huge mountain of dirty laundry maens I'm headed for a funk.....

A half mopped kitchen floor, half cleaned bathroom, and only half my laundry done is my "normal"......

Jesse 7.0
08-08-07, 03:20 PM
My mom, who thinks she has ADD, has what she calls "organized chaos". I have what I call "a bloody mess", I am not horrible... it's not dirty... just thrown about. I do what KZ was talking about and start cleaning off stuff and then go... to another area... sometimes with out noticing. I am worried about trying to learn how to play some of the musical equipment I have. If I get bored... I could kill any chances this time. I am not getting any younger.

Maybe you could try a reward system? You know if yo clean one room.. you get ice cream or whatever you want that's cheap.

Sorry to talk about myself in here. I hope I didn't derail.

Sky81
08-08-07, 03:34 PM
It's okay....it's not only my thread....I won't get mad if you hijack it (I'm not even sure it's in the right forum).......

When I'm my normal self...wait I don't know what that is yet.....I usually let a huge mountain of laundry (4 loads) accumulate....then I wash about half of it....I hardly ever finish something before I start something else....this also applies to cooking.....I'm notorious for over boiling pasta, burning stuff, etc....I usually forget that I'm cooking and move on to something else.....timers help if I stay in ear shot, but usually I don't....I can cook when I'm paying attention and I have no distractions...phone shut off, not TV on, computer off........but I live alone so the motivation to cook really isnt' there anyway.....a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is fine, so long as it doesn't take me three hours to make it......

Jesse 7.0
08-08-07, 03:38 PM
I have trouble cooking for myself. I feel it a waste to have left overs. I know I should be more motivated. I just can't cook for one. Most of the noodles I cook have left overs. I find it frustrating to cook. This also gets me into trouble. I will go out to eat... with little money. I am too impulsive when it comes to food. I do not like cooking. It is boring to me.

Crazy~Feet
08-08-07, 06:32 PM
If its any consolation to the two of you...I have burnt soup right down to a black crisp. :D

Jesse 7.0
08-08-07, 06:35 PM
Note to self:

Don't have soup made by KZ. :p

ozchris
08-09-07, 12:08 AM
Hey Sky are you using any recreational drugs at the moment?

Sky81
08-09-07, 12:20 AM
Haven't in over ten years......I used a lot of them when I was a kid though....you name it I tried it.....yeah even the real bad stuff......I learned my lesson, and quit when I was 15....

ozchris
08-09-07, 12:30 AM
Good job on the quitting!

I'm afraid you'll probably have problems because of the drug use while still young...I wish the government would encourage kids to wait till after their 18 to try drugs.

Crazy~Feet
08-09-07, 01:02 AM
I wish the government would encourage kids to wait till after their 18 to try drugs Ehhhhh...come again? If you mean medications, waiting until 18 is not always prudent...and if you mean recreational drugs? Nobody should be encouraging anything with regards to them, period. Not in my opinion anyway. And I doubt very much that the government would agree with this either.

And now, allow me to don my moderator's cap for a moment:

***Moderator note***

Politics is a banned topic at ADDF.

Discussions regarding use and abuse of illegal substances are permitted in the ADDiction and Substance Abuse subforum ONLY (Sky's casual mention with regards to how she feels this may have impacted her BP is acceptable at this point)....and must comply with the following:

In an effort to protect all who use these forums, no posts will be allowed that encourage or support the illegal or improper use of medication of any kind. The views and opinions expressed in this public forum are not necessarily those of the ADDF. These forums do NOT promote, condone or advocate licit or illicit drug use outside of the scope of their prescribed dosages.

In no event shall the ADDF be liable for any special, indirect or consequential damages in connection with the information contained within this forum or pages to which we provide links.

All posts CAN and will be edited for content at the administrations discretion.

Add to that...If I do not get to them first.

ozchris
08-09-07, 02:12 AM
I just meant that the government should encourage people to wait till they're over 18 if they have to use drugs at all. The difference is brain damage. Much better than saying no one should use illegal drugs ever :P Which is a ridiculous notion.

Perhaps if Sky knew this when she was younger she would have waited and not be having problems now. This may also not be the case but I'm sure she understands where I'm coming from.

The only reason I'm mentioning illegal drugs is because it may relate heavily to what she is going through. I'll stop mentioning it from now on I didn't realize it was such a big no-no.

Crazy~Feet
08-09-07, 02:41 AM
Nobody "HAS" to use drugs! That is the ridiculous notion.

Medications for such disorders as Bipolar are whole other ball of wax and since you have not mentioned one single word about that type of situation?? I do not see where "waiting to use drugs" has any place in this thread. Period!

If you actually understood about bipolar disorder, you would not be making random assumptions about drug abuse "relating heavily" to what she experiences. And as far as my opinion goes, such assumptions are counter-productive and feed the myths that surround an illness that has been misunderstood for far too long.

meadd823
08-09-07, 03:50 AM
Well as soon as I get the cat to quit attacking my computer cord I will try to catch up on this thread which seems to have taken a 209 degree turn here . . . .

and thank you ozchris for recognizing the fact that a thread is a discussion and I can't even figure out what the topic is any more.

If you guys feel a need to hash this out begin another thread is an option. . . .

I will finish reading I have only scanned a few post so far. I have dyslexia so I can be slightly slow. . . . .. .

meadd823
08-09-07, 04:54 AM
I fried my brain with LSD when I was a kid.

So did I but I do not have seizures


don't want to have to take yet another pill, and I really don't think pills can fix what's wrong with me......I need to stop messing up and I need to get my act together.....I don't think a pill is going to stop me from being late to work or help me stop making stupid mistakes, stop ruining my credit, give me motivation, fix my laziness, and help me to not procrastinate.

If you could simply have snapped out of don’t you think you would have thought of this long before coming here? You seem pretty with it I can’t imagine you not thinking of it before seeing a doctor. This tells me if you could have just snapped out it you would have already



Pills won’t stop you from being late, or running your cards up to the moon but they will make it possible for you to . . . if it were possible again you wouldn’t be here telling us about it because you would have made the decision to get to work on time and done so , you would have quit using your cards out of sheer knowing you are butt deep in dept . . . you are minimizing dear and heading straight for a water fall in a blow up floaty and no paddle



I'm sick of being such a lazy scatterbrain, but I really need to accept it and get over it. I don't need yet another excuse......

What you need to accept is you have a neurological condition that has taken over your life without your permission and get over the excuses to NOT taking care of this

Hate me if you wish I will understand folks with certain condition really hate being told the have a problem but if I do any thing different then I will NOT be helping you but enabling you to remain in this denial which could kill you . . . sound far fetched I know but it is the truth from my neurodiverse universe


There's really nothing good I feel I have accomplished. Every time I take one step foward I take ten back.....this has been going on all of my adult life. I wish I could just get my act together.


I wish you could without help but frankly it isn’t going to happen. . .umm bi-polar gets worse as you grow older. . . .

went once to the hospital because I was hearing voices (which now I think I must have made up in my head) and I was starting to scare myself, and I didn't want it to get as bad as how my sister gets.

Older sister ???? perhaps




Maybe I've been listening to him too much. According to him I don't need pills, I need to grow up.....

When he gets his medical license then listen to him until them tell him to STFU his interference is going to end your life . . . . .

How about some more stats I have bunches. . . . .



MedScape (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/558733)

The most frequent cause of death in bipolar disorder was cardiovascular disease (31% of observed deaths in the cohort of bipolar patients in the study), followed by suicide (19%), and cancer (14%).


In addition, the value of treatment of the disorder was underlined by the fact that the SMR for all-cause mortality of bipolar patients dropped from 2.2 for untreated patients to 1.3 for treated ones. Treatment had an even greater impact on suicides in the study population. The SMR for suicide dropped from 29 in untreated patients to 6.5 in treated patients, underscoring the need for effective treatment of patients.
***End Quote

Suicide is the second leading cause of death ?????

Lets see if it shows up on the leading causes of death in the general population


CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm)

Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 654,092
Cancer: 550,270
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,147
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 123,884
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 108,694
Diabetes: 72,815
Alzheimer's disease: 65,829
Influenza/Pneumonia: 61,472
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 42,762
Septicemia: 33,464


Please NOTE SUICIDE DOESN’T EVEN SHOW UP IN THE TOP TEN WHEN CONSIDERING THE GENERAL POPULATION BUT IS THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THOSE WITH BI-POLAR !!!!!!. . . .. you have a 20%-26% chance of dying by your own hand is that what your boyfreind really wants Is that what you want??? HELLO UNITED STATED CALLING ARE WE REACHING???

Treating your symptoms will drop that chance by over half. . .. .

Tell you boy friend to cram it listening to his advice will kill you! savvy that because again hate me that is your right but in your hate do realize I am actually trying to save your life . . . . . literally

The ride does NOT end it only gets worse . . . .. .again hate me but do hear me and yes I am yelling because in your denial your are heading straight for the water fall but there is still time to prevent you from going over the edge and possibly never coming back.




I'm afraid you'll probably have problems because of the drug use while still young...I wish the government would encourage kids to wait till after their 18 to try drugs.

We can't do the political thing here but I cna address the other areas I am afrain you are wrong in your above assumption


ozchris uhh bi-polar is genetic it is one of the most genetic even people who have never touched drugs can get bi-polar disorder and in reality here she need no further confusion here. . . especially when it come to mis—information LIKE the drug abuse was actually a sign of the manifesting bi-polar . . . . so in reality the bi-polar more than likely caused the drug use. . .. I just got through crying in my computer three nights ago when I read the stats on bi-polar and comorbid substance abuse


same Med Scape source as above

Data from the 1990 Epidemiological Catchment Area (ECA) study found that among subjects with either an alcohol or other drug disorder, the odds of having the other addictive disorder were 7 times greater than in the rest of the population.[9] A little over half of the patients with bipolar disorder had a comorbid substance abuse issue. Data from the Systematic Treatment Enhancement Program for Bipolar Disorder (STEP-BD) program showed that subjects with bipolar disorder had increased rates of drug or alcohol abuse irrespective of age of onset of illness ***End Quote

A little OVER HALF I have a daughter with bi-polar and substance abuse. . . . gee which meant slight half ended up being bi-polar any way. . .


PS I am moving this to the bi-polar section if no one minds . . .. . as soon as I get back from the bathrooom so you will be in Crazy~Feets hands shortly. . .. .

meadd823
08-09-07, 05:02 AM
Arrived in bi-polar area in one piece wasn't so bad after all.

ozchris
08-09-07, 05:03 AM
Wow. very well said meadd. I'm sure she'll find this very helpful.

Sky81
08-09-07, 10:05 AM
So did I but I do not have seizures

Older sister ???? perhaps

Nope she's two years younger. She was way worse as a child. She was the one that was hard to control and prone to seizure-like temper tantrums. She'd break TV's, throw things around, scream and yell...and once she tried to stab my mother. I was the lazy one who didn't play with her toys the right way, and who's teachers were always complaining about what a horrible student she was........


When he gets his medical license then listen to him until them tell him to STFU his interference is going to end your life . . . . .

His ignorance and arrogance really annoy me. We got into a huge fight last night, because he really wants me to stop taking my medication....he says all I need to to get really drunk and that will solve all my problems (he's kinda ****ed that I quit drinking). I stopped drinking because It it interacts with my medication and I hate the way it makes me feel for the next few days.....it makes my inattentivness way worse and I get shakey and I can't sit still (not a typical hangover).....

I've decided to just take the medication and let him think I stopped....it's really the best thing....it's starting to cause a lot of fights.....I'm considering ending it if he doesn't stop thinking he knows everything.....according to him, his advice to stop my medication and start drinking is the best advice I'll ever get.....:mad:

Sure....that's all I need....

Crazy~Feet
08-09-07, 03:10 PM
Arrived in bi-polar area in one piece wasn't so bad after all.Thanks so much sis, I will take it from here :).

justhope
08-09-07, 04:27 PM
Good for you Sky...


Perhaps he's maddest about not having his drinking, substance abuse partner in crime anymore. And if he is an addict...he will have no problems....quickly forgetting about you when you pass away from the abuse, or because your depression, worsened by the substance abuse will cause you to end it yourself.

He needs treatment for his abuse, and for whatever cause him to run from dealing with life without it. He is worse off than you are. So his answer is not really for you to stop taking meds because you need to grow up. What he is REALLY saying is stop taking it because I want you to join me in my altered reality of dealing with life in an altered state, where I live in denial of my own sorry existance. Hmm sounds like a candidate to kick to the curb, and quickly.

As is often the case, and I am sure I have read this in statistics somewhere...although I am at work and not in the mood to find them,
when a unhealthy toxic relationship, finds one individual suddenly wanting to get help or get healthy, if often causes chaos and the other person who is not ready to get healthy to get worse...and want to derail the other one. Relationships often end , or the other person who is trying to get better stops trying. It would be nice if he would wake up and see that you are getting better or want to. But the reality is, that he might never. And coming from someone who has lived with addicts ...you CANNOT stop him. You can't control him anymore than he can stop you. If you want to stay, get some help in that area as well. You will need it. I can't give you the info in this arena....but you might know from your past where you can go to get it, or perhaps offline we can discuss it.

Don't get derailed by his obvious attempt to keep you as you were before, because of his inability to deal with it, and who wants a drunk playmate.
This is a fasttrack to the end for you, while he will continue down that road and happily find someone else who will join him until he comes to his own addicts demise.

Hope

Sky81
08-09-07, 07:58 PM
He encourages me to drink because supposedly I'm more fun when I drink, and even more fun when I'm manic and drunk.....not so much because he needs a drinking buddy....although me not drinking makes him drink less.....and not that I was a big drinker before anyway.....I never had an alcohol problem....at the age of twelve I learned there were better mind altering substances out there.....

The reason he thinks having a few beers will solve all my problems, is because if he has a tough day at work he'll grab a beer and it will make it all better.....he usually has one or two and he doesn't do it every day....maybe a couple times a week.

Coming from a former addict, it takes one to know one, and he's not one....I rarely see him drink more then a couple, and if he does, say at a party or at a bar with his friends, he gets really hungover and whines about it all day, then he'll swear off alcohol for a few months, claming he'll never drink again....

I can't count how many times I was dopesick, started getting over it and went back......if he really had a problem he'd use alcohol to fix the hangover.....not swear it off....

Really he thinks alcohol will solve my problems because, a beer helps him unwind and relax after a tough day....I know how much beer he drinks, mostly because I'm the one sent to the liquor store to buy it, and unless he has friends over who he shares with a twelve pack will last him a couple weeks....I'm finding it lasts longer now that I don't help him drink it (so why am I still buying it???)....

He thinks I have it as easy as he does.....

I kinda want him to go to a bar with his friends, drink too much and get hungover and swear off alcohol for a while, so he doesn't keep offering beer as the answer to my problems.....

He's mad because he thinks that what's wrong with my sister and I, is because of the way were were raised.....interestingly enough my father was disgnosed with schizophrenia in his early twenties.....after a series of psychotic episodes.....he also had a long history of substance abuse.....could it be not the way he raised us, but in the genes we inherited from him.......

I've been reading up more on ADD, and I'm begining to think that it's not just the mania that makes me a space cadet.....as much as I was to say I'm lazy and disorganized.....I noticed this morning I had trouble making coffee....I could tell it would be a bad day, and once again.....nothing got done at work....I couldn't even weigh out a batch, let alone put it together.....The maina is gone, but that's not what this is, this seemes to be getting worse........and more so it seems since I started treating the bipolar disorder......

justhope
08-09-07, 08:23 PM
Well I am happy he is not an addict...although some of the appearence were there, IMO....

But still, perhaps you could remind him, your meds are like his beer! Only instead of helping you have a better day, and attitude, it will keep you from hurting yourself,,,or him....LOL..that was bad..sorry.

Well some of those things do sound like ADD...and meds do help. Some you will need to level out on meds...then learn new habits. Time management..goal lists..small at first...then build ...baby step..I had many of the same issues. Still do, meds are not a cure all. So leveling out is only 1/2 of the battle.

Then it's retraining! What fun!
You might be able to go to the Coaching section and see if there is a buddy there to help out?

Thanks for clearing up my fear and concern...wrong path..good,
...about him being an addict..geez that was worrrying me..but then again I am a mommy...see monsters around every corner..,,

Sky81
08-09-07, 09:00 PM
It's okay.....

See I've tried making to list....but those never get read....so I became the post it girl....I put post-it's everywhere to remind me to get stuff done and to stay on task....but then they end up cluttering my work area, so I write post it's reminding me to remove the post-it's.....it's a vicious cycle.....

What's worse is when I write ideas on the pink post its....then I get so many ideas that I only write down half of an idea down on one post it (even ending mid-word)....to write one down on another...and another...then it's amazing if any of those
ideas even become batches, let alone get weighed out or even written in a lab book, most of the time I have trouble ordering the raw materials that I'll need to make the batch......this is something my boss isn't crazy about.......

What's even funnier is seeing me try to make coffee.....On the days I know are going to be bad....I'll forget to put the water in the coffee maker.....or I'll put the water in and forget the coffee....then I have to look for the sugar.....where could it be???....hmmm in the freezer....why the heck did I put it there???

So yeah that's kinda my life....I couldn't imagine being a mom with this....I'd forget my own kids.....or take them to the wrong school, or misplace their shoes, or something....

Sometimes it's really bad....like the infamous three hour long peanut butter and jelly sandwhich process......but I think Iwas manic then, so that might not count.....