View Full Version : Will you let your doctor turn you into a Junkie?


Master Rat
08-06-07, 11:51 PM
I love my doctor’s because I made sure they were good doctors before I place the minutest amount of faith in them. To me a good doctor is not a know it all; a good doctor is a doctor that is extremely well informed and most importantly not paralyzed by his ego. A good doctor will have an open mind, an eagerness to learn and be an expert risk analysis practitioner. Good doctors have a natural resistance to fads and are independent thinkers within the frame work of the institution they belong too. Good doctors are not afraid of their peers and are often looked up to by them. But most importantly GOOD DOCTORS LISTEN TO THEIR PATIENTS and are easy to talk too.

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That said, lets try to understand how good doctors with the best intentions mistakenly hurt their patients. Doctors work in hierarchical institutions that have a power structure like the Catholic Church. Doctors must know their place and earn respect by writing papers or books, research or just being really good for a long time. Doctors are marketed too constantly and after being a nerd for 8-12 years; this false sense of attention must be overwhelming. It would have to affect a underfeed ego at the least for a short period of time and it could last a whole career. Doctors are forced to work in little cramped offices, I couldn’t even do it. A lot of them work really bad hours and most of them are made to account for their hours in the day as if they were going to get a parking ticket for standing still. Doctors don’t get to talk a lot, but are spoken to all day; mostly taking complaints. Would you really want to be a doctor when you analyze all that goes into it for $150,000.00 a year?

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Lets look at patient care; do you know doctors have little rule books that tell them exactly what to do for almost any type of patient. These books resemble cook books and don’t leave a lot of latitude for independence or self expression. So if you go to your doctor and you tell him your medication is no longer working he will consult the cook book, which is probably memorized and it will tell him to increase your dose. I have bad ADHD and my two kids do as well; I have learned the only time you increase a dose is when your child grows or the adult ages another decade. For adults and I mean every adult non-adders included, loose a percentage of dopamine every decade after their fortieth birthday. So theoretically everyone will eventually have ADD. The good news is you will be an expert at controlling yours when your Non-ADD friends are in lala land.

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When doctors increase a dose that was already at optimum, side affects become more persistent and thinking efficiency goes down. For example when I was overdosed on Concerta I had tunnel vision, a feeling of disconnect, I saw white static like on an old TV. Very hard crashes or let downs, anxiety, a bad or fatal body awareness. When I am overdosed on Dex I get very tight muscles, excess body tension, agitation or a very short non patient attitude, plus headaches. When I am overdosed on Desoxyn I get sharper vision and then headaches with a short attitude. These overdoses small as they were were not intentional; they were part of discovering my optimum dose. While the feelings during these times was unpleasant, I would not have missed it for the world; because now I am exactly the person I always knew I could be, I am alive.

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So for me and a lot of other people the best way to keep your doctor from overmedicating you is to rotate your ADD medicine when one stops working with another one that also works well for you. This unfortunately requires discipline, because now you will be armed with many different stimulants and it probably takes courage on the doctor’s part as well. That is why I always take my meds to my doctor and let him count them. I never want him to have to guess if I am over using or not. I do think my risk of over using is very low, because being allowed to live at my full potential is such a gift; I would never want to risk loosing it.

<o:p> </o:p>

Knowing what I know and looking at young kids with ADD. I often feel sorry for these kids, because I often feel they are medicated to young or they are too young to understand the difference of being overmedicated or not. They do not have the proper verbal skills or persuasiveness to describe their feelings; however they have a deep sense of duty to please.

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If you have ADD or your children have ADD; the best way to know if your over medicated is to take a drug holiday. After you survive the holiday, go camping and plan many hikes. Work in your lower cardio range ( 65%) for at least 90 minutes, but the longer the better. After the work out sit down and talk. It will probably be one of your most meaningful conversations in a long time. Ask your child how he feels and tell him to do his best to remember it. When you go home re-medicate and try to duplicate that metal feeling, this is your optimum dose.

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Good Luck and I hope to see you on the other side,

<o:p> </o:p>

Tom

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 12:09 AM
Personally? I have never had such an experience as "meds stopped working for me". Ever.

Why would a doctor increase beyond optimum dose? If the patient is honest and informed (such things as the initial "WOW I can finally think!" feeling not lasting, for example) they will find a level that works for clarity and stop there after the titration process is completed.

I also have severe ADHD and my own doses can be variable depending on how long my days are and what portion of those days I am required to be at peak efficiency. During the school year I have an extremely long day, and must be as sharp mentally as I can possibly be, fo4r as long as possible. I am responsible for a child with ADHD and all that goes with that (example: I must make sure that she is adequately medicated to make it through her school day, and to make sure she does her homework) and I am responsible for a very active toddler with no assistance. For me to be spacing out and wonky might very well be dangerous during these months.

The summertime is less stressful and I have the children to assist me with the baby. Thus, my need for clarity is lessened and my doses change accordingly.

I know my optimum dose. I know that it will seem to vary in effectiveness as my stress increases and decreases and I am fully honest with my doctor. I have a variable booster dose schedule for the evenings...it is prescribed for twice nightly with my doctor's full awareness that some days I will take only one dose and some days I may need 3.

speedo
08-07-07, 12:39 AM
I've had meds quit on me. Wellbutrin has quit on me twice.
I stopped taking it each time and went back to it after a month or so and it was working again.

Lately it is acting like it is not working so well again. My guess is that eventually it just won't work at all.

Me :D

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 12:49 AM
I've had meds quit on me. Wellbutrin has quit on me twice.
I stopped taking it each time and went back to it after a month or so and it was working again.

Lately it is acting like it is not working so well again. My guess is that eventually it just won't work at all.

Me :DOK Speedo :) that's fair...do you think that with the Wellbutrin there is any chance of becoming a "junky"?

speedo
08-07-07, 12:53 AM
it's not very likely. In all fairness, I am a big advocate of ac tively managing one's medication regime. This means learning about the medicatoin, it's side effects, knowing how to titrate up and knowing when to take more and when to take less, etc.

I know that 150 mg of wellbutrin xl is the most optimim dose for me because I can not stay at 300 MG/fay for more than 3-4 days without anger/anxiety.

I also know that wellbutrin only partially allieviates my symptoms so I take tenex to reduce my hyperactivity. I know thta if I take more than 1.5 mg/day of tenex that I become too lethargic and won't have the energy to function very well at all.
I learned this by titrating up to 2 mg/day then backing down to 1.5 mg/day.

I also take risperdal. it helps with anxiety and my ocd is not so bad when I take it. My prescription says 3 X per day, but I usually take it twice. And on days when I need more, I take it three times. I simply have to monitor myself and adjust my meds as needed

Me :D

Master Rat
08-07-07, 01:06 AM
I agree stress, fatigue, lack of exercise and nutrition all affect the optimum dose and I sometimes take half off a pill to counteract these unforeseens. I consider this to be fine tuning and I feel it is too advanced for someone trying to learn the optimum dose. This general guideline or thread was intended for a beginning or improperly medicated Adder. I also consider a dose for me to be 3 pills every 4 hours. So if I stay up 16 hours one day and only 12 the next, my dose is the same; however the amount of pills I take will be different.ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>

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When I refer to my pills no longer working; I mean I build up a resistance to my medication or they are not metabolized in my older body as fast as they should be. So for Desoxyn, I get an overwhelming sense of fatigue if I take it for more than a month. If I take dex for more than a month, I get very tense. If my dose was adjusted on Desoxyn to compensate for the fatigue it creates in me, it would be the end game of my treatment or I would become overmedicated.<O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

Tom<O:p></O:p>

pedalpounder
08-07-07, 01:07 AM
They make a lot more than 150,000 a year...

Master Rat
08-07-07, 01:14 AM
Some Doctors make a lot more than that. It depends on where they work, what they do and how good they are.

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 01:25 AM
For adults and I mean every adult non-adders included, loose a percentage of dopamine every decade after their fortieth birthday .Can you direct me to the studies that prove this? I did not know of this and would like to see the data for myself.

ProcrastN8R2
08-07-07, 01:28 AM
Some (doctors) make less, for the same reasons (Master Rat gave above).

Anyway, I'm not sure i followed the whole point of this thread, no offense Master Rat, as I am sure your intent was sincere, but since my biggest problem with meds is REMEMBERING TO TAKE THEM, the threat of becoming a junkie is not something I worry about much!

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 01:35 AM
Nor do I, ProcrastN8R2. I have the same problem. I never seem to remember to take those boosters before I actually start going "Duhhhh!" :D.

I think the most crucial information for newbies to medications is to understand that the whole thrill of new clarity doesn't last and that this does NOT mean that the medications have stopped working. I see that question so often: "Meds don't seem to be working, do I need more?". Most times (certainly not every time, of course) the poster has been taking the meds for a short period of time.

I trust my doctor and don't believe that most doctors intend to turn patients into junkies at all. In fact, I was under the impression that most docs were very cautious about RXing higher doses of stimulants and that the problem seemed to be that many people were actually being UNDER dosed.

ProcrastN8R2
08-07-07, 01:37 AM
Nor do I, ProcrastN8R2. I have the same problem. I never seem to remember to take those boosters before I actually start going "Duhhhh!" :D.

I think the most crucial information for newbies to medications is to understand that the whole thrill of new clarity doesn't last and that this does NOT mean that the medications have stopped working. I see that question so often: "Meds don't seem to be working, do I need more?". Most times (certainly not every time, of course) the poster has been taking the meds for a short period of time.

I trust my doctor and don't believe that most doctors intend to turn patients into junkies at all. In fact, I was under the impression that most docs were very cautious about RXing higher doses of stimulants and that the problem seemed to be that many people were actually being UNDER dosed.



Good points all!

Master Rat
08-07-07, 01:53 AM
Crazyfeet the dopamine loss I believe was around 14% and it was published in the book Delivered from Distraction.

No doctor would ever want someone to be a junkie. The point is getting your medical treatment right is hard work and there are pitfalls along the way. I hate it when people say I quit taking my medication because """". I tried one medication and it didn't work, so I quit. My doctor sucked so I quit. I feel a lot of people think busting ADD is a simple a taking care of a cold and it is not.

Tom

Crazy~Feet
08-07-07, 02:22 AM
I agree with a lot of that. I also think that a seemingly alarmist title including the word "junky" may be a little off-putting to members who may be new to medications. ;) That's my fear here.

Many people fear becoming addicted or dependent upon ADHD stimulants. Its a big concern for a lot of people. I try very hard to briefly give some pertinent information, especially the bit I have mentioned, to try to ease the minds of these people. I make sure to tell them that everybody is different and respond differently and that the road to the right medications may be a long one.

I am not sure at all how often the medications actually stop working or for how many people this happens. I am sure that rotating medications works for some people. Like I said, though, I have never experienced this problem. I think its more of an "if" than a "when" type of issue. I think that needs to be stated and also the bit about the "wow" not lasting too, and so I have replied to make sure that this is included :) and hopefully people will read the entire thread and not be scared off by some of the larger posts. Many people with ADHD are intimidated by or do not have the patience to read big walls of text ya know?

ProcrastN8R2
08-07-07, 02:44 AM
I agree with a lot of that. I also think that a seemingly alarmist title including the word "junky" may be a little off-putting to members who may be new to medications. ;) That's my fear here.

...and hopefully people will read the entire thread and not be scared off by some of the larger posts. Many people with ADHD are intimidated by or do not have the patience to read big walls of text ya know?


Exactly!

I did manage to glean some of the main points though, and I agree with you Crazy~Feet and Master Rat!

lars
08-08-07, 12:51 AM
Great post Tom! I really like the suggestion of camping and hiking during a drug holiday with another person on holiday. Unfortunately I have no kids to hike with, or have a heart to heart talk with, but maybe one day I will. ;)

I don't take medication holidays anymore, at least like I did during the first 10 or 12 years on medication when I would often plan a monthly, or semi-monthly drug holiday. Instead, these days I usualy just tend to avoid my medication on the weekends. I don't intentionally set out each weekend to do this per se, but more often than not I tend to over sleep on weekends (given the opportunity), and sometimes I prefer to be without the medication when I have "down time." :o

That being said, I guess sometimes I just like to feel kinda sluggish & prefer to lounge around the house knowing that I don't have to be anywhere, or have to answer to anyone, or really have to pay very close attention to anything other than maybe the weather or the birds hanging out in the birdbath.

PS I have experienced most of the stimulant medications (except Adderall & Focalin) quit working for me at one time or another. Usually out of the blue unexpectedly. For me it never happend until I had been on a given drug for over a year or two.

bliss22
08-12-07, 06:14 AM
It depends on where they work, what they do and how good they are....and how well their managers & accountants handle the financial aspect of the business.

not all doctors are wealthy though.



(.. but that's completely irrelevant, isn't it?) :p



i think i'm just focusing on the details to avoid reading the entire thread... :p
hahah... sorry. i'll write a "real" response later, i promise. :D

trying
08-14-07, 03:56 AM
> I think the most crucial information for newbies to medications is to understand that the whole thrill of new clarity doesn't last and that this does NOT mean that the medications have stopped working. I see that question so often: "Meds don't seem to be working, do I need more?". Most times (certainly not every time, of course) the poster has been taking the meds for a short period of time.

Yea I think this is a good idea to stress. When I first started on dopaminergics, I interpreted the first few days of hypomania as the "correct" response. At this time I also didn't communicate very well with my doctors (problem on both ends) and didn't know too much about the medications ... this lead to me basically moving the dose upward for a long time. Long periods of vacillating between crazed sociability/work, and then feeling completely wiped out. Essentially abuse.

Most people won't make the mistake I did those years ago, but fair warning, you know?

Haha, feels good to tell that story.

Crazy~Feet
08-14-07, 03:59 AM
Sometimes? It can feel really good to unburden yourself. People make mistakes. No reason to carry that weight alone anymore...you found this place! :)

meadd823
08-14-07, 06:31 AM
I think the other members pretty addressed the topic of medication so I shall simply pick up where they left off. There is much talk about doctors in the initial post so I do not feel I will be off topic at all.

I will begin with what is right about the initial post.

The best doctors do listen to their patents however the ones that really do care about their patent's health will refuse to be bullied by them. Some patents want to be the doctor although patents should participate in their own care no disagreement from me there Some people want to be their own doctor while the person with the medical license at stake merely 'takes dictation", bullies come in all forms and fashions. . . .








. Doctors work in hierarchical institutions that have a power structure like the Catholic Church. Doctors must know their place and earn respect by writing papers or books, research or just being really good for a long time.

If I take a bit of truth and mix it in with manure I would have the equivalent to the statement above. . . gains of truth one could fertilize their house plant with.

There is a chain of command in most places of employment their is structure in most communities {including this one} to guard against chaos and designate specific responsibilities. . . . mentioning church was not really necessary. . . . Doctors in SOME instances work for associations just like some auto mechanics work for shops it really isn't much harder than that. Now there is such a thing as private practice in which a doctor must have "hospital privileges" in order to see patents admitted to that hospital.

Many papers appear from universities or from research groups normally consisting of several doctors. If a doctor is approached and asked to write papers by certain publications it will be only after the reputation has already been made. Most doctors submit papers to be reviewed, before individual articles are published by medical journals they under go peer review the doctors qualifications are investigated and the writing is critiqued by peers and finally reviewed by a board to see if the paper is in the best interest of the publication. . . . Most of the PhD's you read in medical journals are already well established or are research groups some of whom do research for a living.






That said, lets try to understand how good doctors with the best intentions mistakenly hurt their patients

Doctors "mistakenly hurt" patent because THEY ARE HUMAN!!!! The biology of the human body is complex and we are not all carbon copies of each other. Our individual chemistry varies where one person may have a bad reaction while 1000 do not. . . . this is an odds game much like driving to work in rush hour traffic. You can do every thing right and most caring people do but accident still can happen.


Okay on with the count down here







Doctors are marketed too constantly and after being a nerd for 8-12 years; this false sense of attention must be overwhelming. It would have to affect a underfeed ego at the least for a short period of time and it could last a whole career.

This stigma is so bad I had to switch into word to prevent accidental guideline violation. . . . .okay maybe I should try some exercise before responding . .. AHHHHHH not all doctors are nerds just like not all ADDers are hyperactive. They are individuals and I do not understand what the {really bad word} is so hard to understand about that?


Surely I am NOT the only person here who actually KNOWS a doctor as a person.




Doctors are forced to work in little cramped offices, I couldn’t even do it.

Because they are not in them very much, why would one need a huge office if you are not in it but a couple of hours a day. Doctors who wok in associations are sharing a building with other doctors and over crowding does occur but every one is normally cramped and the associations do try to relieve the over crowding as it is in their best interest to do so. Patent require privacy which is a big issue in medicine.







A lot of them work really bad hours and most of them are made to account for their hours in the day as if they were going to get a parking ticket for standing still. Doctors don’t get to talk a lot, but are spoken to all day; mostly taking complaints. Would you really want to be a doctor when you analyze all that goes into it for $150,000.00 a year?

I knew a doctor who had to pay $24,000 for malpractice insurance per quarter and that would be in cash every three months. He paid more in malpractice insurance in a quarter than I did my house over a ten year period – did I mention this is a OB/GYN figure from 1996 over ten years ago.

The important question to all who make a pay check is not what you make but what you take home . . . . . .after the government, deductions. Expenses necessary for your job. . . .it is what you have left that pay the house payment, puts food on the table ect. . . .

How about a reality check. . . ..

medical burn out (http://home.austin.rr.com/austintxmd/Pages/income.html)

The hours doctors work greatly depend on the doctors actual line of work. Not all assembly line worker work for Ford or even car manufactures. Some doctors in emergency room work much the same hours as the nurses do while others who have a private practice have office hours and hospital rounds, some even have both plus in-office procedures and surgeries that must be scheduled That is why a doctor has a receptionist and a nurse. It take both of these people to coordinate doctor with patent and no it isn’t an easy job. . .. especially when going around surgical suites schedules and availability of patents and other hospital functions such as lab and x-ray.







Lets look at patient care; do you know doctors have little rule books that tell them exactly what to do for almost any type of patient. These books resemble cook books and don’t leave a lot of latitude for independence or self expression

Do we have to look at patent care this response it’s long enough? {Gravy}

I am not sure if you are referring to the standards of care codes, the insurance diagnosis codes, PDR,DSMV or Clinical Reference Guides???? I looked to see if perhaps you were from another country but it doesn’t appear to be the case.

Medical doctors do have diagnostic guideline much like the psychiatric DSMV this is to maintain consistency and allow for updates to knew knowledge in an efficient manner, Reference materials also helps keep every one on the same page so to speak. Like sudden onset of inattention is more than likely not ADD because ADD is some thing that one is born with and some symptoms should appear by around the age of seven . . . it is a guideline to hep differentiate between ADD and other disorders.Guideline are not a bad thing they provide structure and ready references as to exact specifications and expectations.

Doctors are more limited by insurance companies, greedy lawyers and bureaucratic red tape than they are by their own abilities. Some doctors do consult reference material for differential diagnosis simply because symptoms of several conditions can over lap. . .like inattention can be ADD, CAD, Hard of hearing, depression, or a brain tumor. Gee I WANT a doctor to look up information not guess. Doctors also used PDR which is a big drug reference book. The other tools they use especially in emergency care is algorithms which are very handy.






have bad ADHD and my two kids do as well; I have learned the only time you increase a dose is when your child grows or the adult ages another decade. For adults and I mean every adult non-adders included, loose a percentage of dopamine every decade after their fortieth birthday. So theoretically everyone will eventually have ADD.

Please consult DSMV – cook book for proper diagnostic criteria and you will see this is not true. . . I think the truth appears in my analogy above as well.

No one gets ADD at 40 they may get diagnosed at 40 or even 50 They may have an injury that creates ADD like symptoms but they do NOT get ADD at forty it is called natural decline and it not set in stone, Like your car insurance, rates it may vary between individuals depending upon your history, accidents, and other environmental conditions . . . . .

I understand I am rather anal retentive , it is a thing with me when people start half truths about medical professionals and then proceed to give out medical advice. . . . it is a personal pet peeve of mine and I have so few of them so I feel I must feed the ones I do have . . . .just for member information purposes






So for me and a lot of other people the best way to keep your doctor from overmedicating you is to rotate your ADD medicine when one stops working with another one that also works well for you

Would you like some bread with this bologna? How about some chips and a glass of milk?

I have been on the same medication for over a decade and I know it is working I am still a member here. . . . . if I am still a member after this post then you will have hard evidence of my medications ability to work even though I have been on the same medication and at the same dose for over ten years


Yes Some people do have to switch medications but that is closer to the exception rather than the rule The subject is further complicated by the fact that tooo darn many go by ADD medication “feelings” instead of medication effects.





If you have ADD or your children have ADD; the best way to know if your over medicated is to take a drug holiday

If you are ADD or your children are ADD please take the leap and consult your doctor before stopping any medications. And by all means



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Good Luck and I hope to see you on the other side

It appears I am already on the opposing side . . . . I oppose stigmas even those about doctors and the medical profession in general. The initial post I read may be a representation of your personal experiences but it is written as if in some authoritative knowing fashion.

I have had a few experiences of my own which are derived from more than one particular role/perspective. I have personally known and worked for far too many wonderful docs to let this go without some addition of the truth, that is truth from the other side of that receptionist counter. . . .

Have a wonderful day and thanks for reading . . . . . :)

Imnapl
08-14-07, 02:36 PM
If doctors are over prescribing medication, why are there thousands of posts on these forums from patients who can't get prescriptions or permission from their doctors to increase medication? :confused:

lars
08-14-07, 02:43 PM
If doctors are over prescribing medication, why are there thousands of posts on these forums from patients who can't get prescriptions or permission from their doctors to increase medication? :confused:
Good question.

I don't know for sure, but here's my guess. I think the answer is probably due to the fact that the over prescribing issue tends to be connected more so with children than with adults. Out of the thousands of members here at the forums who post, most of those members are adults.

solitary bee
08-14-07, 11:05 PM
Ironically, doctors who DO listen to their patients make less money. It takes time to listen to patients. Doctors who listen to their patients are more effective. Hence patients actually need them less. It's terrible. Listening to patients is a self elimination programme. :)

JR1973
08-15-07, 04:02 PM
A doctor that listens too much to his/her patients will find their income dropping way too much these days. It's all a numbers game and a vicious cycle.

example:
Doctor charges $150 for a office visit
Insurance only gives them $50

Doctors must take in more and more patients to offset loss in pay. The less health insurance pays a doctor the more patients they have to see which further reduces the amount of time per patient. Some might think doctors are being greedy. Nope they are in business and have bills to pay like everyone else. 100k+ in student loans, super-high insurance for malpractice, rent/lease on office space, staff salaries, mortgage, car payments, etc.

Some doctors just say F* it all and don't take insurance or bill insurance as out of network then pass the remainder to the patient.
Most Psychiatrists don't take insurance because they don't have too. Supply and demand. Way too many screwed up people than there are Psychiatrists. People will seek them out and pay what ever the doc charges.

You don't become a doctor to make money these days. Get a undergrad degree in engineering then goto law school and become a patent attorney.

JR

Imnapl
08-15-07, 04:11 PM
In a public health system like Canada's, physicians are told how many patients they should be processing in an hour.

cbobgo
08-15-07, 04:46 PM
Mead, thanks for the good post sticking up for us docs. You hit must of the points I wanted to make - saved me alot of time from having to write that myself. :)

BTW average salary for family docs and psychiatrists is about $140,000.

http://www.studentdoc.com/july_surv.html

- bob

Crazy~Feet
08-15-07, 05:01 PM
Mead, thanks for the good post sticking up for us docs. You hit must of the points I wanted to make - saved me alot of time from having to write that myself. :)

BTW average salary for family docs and psychiatrists is about $140,000.

http://www.studentdoc.com/july_surv.html

- bobThanks for that, Bob :)...and I was wondering how YOU felt about the title of this thread?

cbobgo
08-15-07, 05:12 PM
...and I was wondering how YOU felt about the title of this thread?
Yeah it caught my eye lol. Given that addiction is a disease like ADD is a disease, doctors don't turn anyone into junkies. They may enable an addict to get their fix from a pharmacy instead of a street corner, but they did not create the addiction.

And increasing someone's dose of a med is a very logical step if the med previously worked but it's effectiveness has declined. Some patients will build up a tolerence to meds that requires dose adjustments. The concept of rotating meds, however, is also valid and very useful for some patients.

The key is each patient is different. What works for one does not necesarily work for the next.

So you all shouldn't make proclamations that the way you take your meds is the best way, or the only way. It may be the best way for you, but it may not work at all for someone else.

That's where the art of medicine comes in. It's NOT all just cookbook recipees as was implied in the first post. Yes, there are guidelines published - things that work in the majority of cases. But there are always those outside the majority that need something a little different. thinking outside the box as they say. A good doctor will know when to try something "off label" as many ADD treatments are.

Now see what you made me do - ended up writing a big long post. :eek:

- bob

Crazy~Feet
08-15-07, 05:18 PM
Now see what you made me do - ended up writing a big long post. :eek:I tend to think it was a very informative and enlightening post myself, however. Thanks for taking the time :).

P.S. I don't usually post big walls of text myself either...but yours is nothing compared to THESE (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41967) little gems from yours truly! ;)

OK Lars, I will take my OT posting and get up outta your thread now, buddy. :D

Imnapl
08-15-07, 05:18 PM
Oh, Dr. Bob, we are very short of doctors in Canada and have what we call "orphan" patients. If you're not busy . . .

lars
08-15-07, 06:00 PM
It's NOT all just cookbook recipees as was implied in the first post.
I didn't get that at all when I read the first post. I thought Tom was implying that rotating medications as a way to avoid being over medicated.



OK Lars, I will take my OT posting and get up outta your thread now, buddy. :D
Hey this is not my thread, this is Tom's thread. My threads usually tend to stagnate & collect dust, compared to threads like this one which seem to generate interest, discussion, etc. :o

lars
08-15-07, 06:38 PM
As a moderator in the medications forum, I thought I should say that in all fairness to Tom (the original poster), I think think that there might be some confusion in this thread due to the word "junkie" used in the title of his post.

I do not think Tom was implying that a Dr will turn a person into a "junkie" in the traditional sense of the word, however what he appeared to be implying (in my opinion) was that Drs can and do sometimes over prescribe these drugs (not intentionally), and that from his experience he had been unintentionally over prescribed causing some nasty side effects.

I thought that Tom was associating the word "junkie" to a person who is chronically taking more medication than they need, at least that is how I read it. I do not think he was implying "junkie" in the sense of someone who is a drug fiend that is constantly chasing after the perfect unattainable high.

I found his post to be very well written, and filled with valuable experience. He was writing about his experience, and he was not Dr bashing.