I am particularly frustrated with daughter after the meds have worn off in the evening. Our bedtime ritual is fraught with distress. She can outright defiantly pursue a forbidden activity, dawdle to no end, disappear magically from the space she inhabited two seconds ago, or as the nightime proceeds just stare at me with blank attention and pleading eyes like she'd like to do what she's being told but she just can't make herself do it. She'll come out of her bedroom a thousand times declaring only for a drink or bathroom but if she's not checked on she'll be in the pantry scrounging sweets. Does anyone else deal with this? What are some options for getting her to go to bed and stay there? It makes no difference to lose anything or be offered a reward. She clearly knows the consequences but doesn't carry through.

We have a bed time, and a lights out time. Steven will read for awhile in his bed before he actually goes to sleep. The rule is he has to stay in bed. Course there are nights when it's bad. "I can't go to sleep." Like standing on the stairs in the bright light will help. Then it's just harda## mommy that put ye olde foot down and tells him to stay in bed regardless.

We are firm with the bedtime routine. We refuse to give her anything she's up for and send her back. It is a constant replay. If we totally ignore her by not giving her even negative attention, she'll go into her brothers room or go find food to eat etc. She has absolutely no impulse control when she is not on her meds regardless of the punishment.

I am more concerned about when she reaches that stage of just looking blank at me as though my words don't even register and her eyes seem to plead help me. Words just bounce off her. She sits or stands like she's paralyzed. It's mental freeze zone.

Have you tried letting her read in bed? Sometimes it takes a while for my daughter to go to sleep, but at least she stays in bed reading until she falls asleep. I do not even leave the light on, she just reads by the hall light from the doorway.

Yes, she is allowed to read, she's allowed to play quiet music. We must watch though if she gets a spark to begin a project a second wind will breeze through and she'll be up til midnight. Her ideas are always great and exciting; it just isn't the time to do them. She has a baby doll to put to bed and settle down, which she does quite superbly but what a great mommy she is, her little girl doesn't get up out of bed again. I've tried explaining this is adult time, I've tried having her do chores the next day for the equal amount of adult time she takes. I've tried taking privileges. Today she was not able to buy any school supplies while her brother did. I don't think it even makes a connection.

Dove, have you considered parenting classes? They were very helpful for me.

Dove, have you considered parenting classes? They were very helpful for me.
We don't have unresolvable issues when she is on her meds. It's when she is off her meds that it seems her brain just doesn't connect. I could be speaking a foreign language.

My husband refuses parenting classes or therapy. He says she needs to be harshly disciplined to make the point. I am in therapy with numerous family issues and my daughter will be begin with a ped psych in a few weeks who uses meds as well as therapy. I am hoping this will draw my husband in to work together in a united front.

Doesn't anyone else encournter this blank stare. The closest description is what Dr. Amen describes as the ring of fire ADD. His behavior descriptions identify my daughter well. From his book I see atleast three types of ADD that she seems to be challenged with.

We don't have unresolvable issues when she is on her meds. It's when she is off her meds that it seems her brain just doesn't connect. I could be speaking a foreign language.Maybe because when the meds wear off, those of us with ADHD return to our "normal" state? This would be totally normal.

As far as I know, Dr Amen and those who work for him are only ones who even recognize his categories of ADHD. All other doctors are using the DSM-IV-R designations of hyperactive, inattentive and combined...and other issues are considered to be something else, like his so-called Temporal ADHD would be considered a brain-damage related condition...which even according to him, it very likely is.

CrazyFeet, forgive my 'normal' bias. I am trying to understand this child's mind. When I look into her eyes I can just sense her pleading to help her do what I am asking her to do, but I don't know how or what to do to help her. Every counsel I have given has not been beneficial.

I can understand her flightyness, her out of the box thinking and impulsive actions as being ADHD. She is very bright. The neuologist says she is underperforming atleast 20% due to the neurological challenge and she is still humming along at or above average. It's these periods of brain freeze that consternate me. Perhaps this is normal for her when she is exceptionally tired or feeling threatened. So does that mean there is no way of breaking through that, we just tough it out?

Being tired does tend to make ADHD symptomatology worse, yes. And I know how crazy it can make things...I have ADHD children myself! :rolleyes: Its really rough, I know it is.

One some level I bet the girl does have that "I want to comply but I just don't know how" feeling going on. And it is also very possible that the consequences you give her for this bedtime behavior do not, in fact, make a connection.

With my own child, I finally threw in the towel and asked for some sleep medications for her. She was the same way...she would not stay in bed, she would get great ideas and be up late, she did not respond to any sanctions I applied. The difference is, in my case, I also have severe ADHD and so I know perfectly well exactly how she feels. Its very hard to settle down and go to sleep, if not flat out impossible, when your mind will not shut off. This is why I resorted to sleep medications for her.

The good news is that eventually she realized that lack of sleep was making her worse off and she became more cooperative and learned to ask for the sleep meds when she was aware that sleep was eluding her.

How old is your daughter? Mine is 8. Our family practioner referred us to the ped. psychiatrist because of her sleep issues, so perhaps a sleep medication will be helpful for her too. I try to direct her to quiet activities, but those brain storms of possiblity tend to interfere. I am looking forward to seeing what the pp says when we have an appt scheduled.

My daughter is now almost 12 years old, but has had sleep issues for longer than I can remember (curses, I have ADHD too, drat!). Speaking from my own experience, I can verify that those "brainstorms of possibility" moments will wreak havoc upon the best intentions to fall asleep.

I like the way HF put it best: "Hey! An interesting thought! And look...another interesting thought..." and on and on it goes until your sleep is utterly ruined and you just have to get up and do something, anything, with that hyperactivity of the mind!

There are a lot of mildly sedating medications, including tranquilizers, antidepressents and even antihistamines, that might just be the ticket to allowing her to settle down enough to get to sleep.

Will you come back and let us know what the PP has to say about it? Shared experiences here at ADDF are really very helpful to all.

Best of luck to you and your daughter, from me and all of mine (two of which are also members here). :)

Thanks Crazy Feet. I'll let you know what the PP says.

Has anyone used valerian as a sleep aid? She doesn't like camomile and won't drink the tea.

Celestial Seasonings has a "Sleepy Time Tea" (if she likes tea) that my husband drinks sometimes. Sorry, I don't know what's in it (I don't drink tea), but it is cafenee free. Maybe that would help?

I don't get blank stares, I get looked right through. It's like I'm not there at all. Then again, mine is ADHD/Asperger's so it'll be different. I do know that being "harshly disciplined" will almost never help, and often makes things worse. I was advised (back when we thought it was just ADHD) that rewards or punishment should immediatly follow the behavior or it won't register that X happeded because I did Y.

I know for awhile I had to follow Steven around to make sure things got done. Two steps beind reminding to pick up toys, brush teeth, get dressed, etc. It annoyed him so much that he eventually started doing it on his own. he still needs reminders, but not as bad as before. There's a sign on the bathroom mirror with his night time list of to do's to also help him remember. Maybe a big stop sign on her door....?

Sllepy Time is primarily chamomile, I know because I am allergic to it. ;) Maybe it would work for her since possibly the taste is different? Worth a shot anyway.

It must have been sleepy time that we tried. Iknow it was camomile and she didn't like it. I will check into valerian for her. Tonight I gave her a small smidgen of a sleep pill. Within an hour she was rubbing her eyes and needing help to put her babies jammies on. It's now 10 and it is beautifully quiet.

Well thanks for the clarification CF. It always smelled kinda minty to me, and since I don't drink it I hardly paid attention. :)

I am particularly frustrated with daughter after the meds have worn off in the evening. Our bedtime ritual is fraught with distress.

Is there any reason why she can't have a late evening dose of her meds?

I'm an adult, but I have trouble going to bed just like your daughter and I was thinking of asking my Dr. for another booster for late evening just to help me quiet the brain so that I can go to bed at a reasonable time.

I had been told that this late boost will work for some people. We gave her 5 mg. the first night and it worked like a charm. The next two nights were horrid. She could not go to sleep. So we discontinued it. Not sure why it was not effective for her but thanks for the input.

Have you looked into melatonin? It is non-prescription. I use it to help with jet-lag.

You know, I saw the melitonine in my med box after I'd given her the sleeping pill. I have used that successfully when I am not overstressed. Maybe I'll give that a try as well. Haven't been able to pick up and valerian tincture yet. Thanks for the reminder. She did sleep well last night but her head popped up like a jack in the box at 6AM ready and raring to go.

For the past two nights I've given her a melatonin tablet. The advantage is they are chewable or dissolvable (she doesn't swallow pills yet) and they are much gentler on her system than the over the counter pill. Within an hour she is contentedly asleep and asleeps the whole night. As it begins to take affect, she is much more mellow in the bedtime scene than before as well. Thanks everyone for helping me brainstorm this problem. I will also return to let you know what the ped psych says. That won't be for a few weeks yet.

Thanks for letting us know how it worked. Usually we only hear about the failures, not the successes. Glad you hear you were successfull.