My son is 3 1/2 years old and I am at my wit's end. He is a constant struggle every day. He does not listen to anything anyone says to him. It is like he is not even hearing you. He talks constantly and is in motion 24/7. He has become a danger to himself. He has turned on my oven, toaster, clothes dryer, etc. I have caught him trying to start my car. He knows no boundaries. He has no fear and no matter what punishment (time out,etc) he just does not care. He climbs on everything and seems to never run out of energy. You sometimes can't have a conversation with him if he is trying to tell you something. No matter what you say he will continue to tell you what he wants to say. He shows very little interest in his toys and only wants to be outside. He is very intellegent and has a very large vocabulary. I can't let him out of my sight because within 2 minutes he can be in danger. This morning he climbed on top of my counter and opened a child proof cap of antibiotics and drank the last 4 doses in the bottle. I had to call poison control and he vomited all morning. I tried to talk to him about the danger and to never take medicine unless I give it to him and all he could keep saying back to me is "but I was coughing". It was like I could never get through to him. I have an appt. with his pediatrician next week, but I don't know how to get her to realize how serious it has become. My mother in law babysits him right now and she is worn out. He is suppossed to start preschool next week but I don't know how he will ever sit through the day. Please if anyone has gone through this with a child I need advice if these are signs of ADHD. I have been reading about it and I think he has gone beyond an "active toddler". Any advice would be appreciated. thanks

While reading your entry it brought back many memories of my own child before we had him seen. Although I am not a doctor to help you diagnose these symtoms it does sound very familar. At the time, I just thought he needed a little extra attention, but really I was exhausting myself. I would bring him places and he'd always be getting in trouble from our parents or someone else and it would break my heart because I knew he was a good boy, just couldn't contain himself, it got so bad I didn't want to even bring him anywhere. It finally took until he was in school when a teacher was telling me it wasn't just me being a lazy parent, but something else. We evaluted him together with the teacher, doctor and myself. He was diagnoised with ADD. My husband and I keep him busy in Motorcross and Soccer, fast things that can keep up with his brain processes. It's a hard thing to hear, but such a relief to know your not alone.

Hi Stacey - welcome to the forum!

I have a 5 y/o boy who shares many of the symptoms you describe - talks constantly but it's very difficult to get his attention to listen to me or anyone else. If you ask him a question or try to get his attention, he'll just go on with whatever he's thinking about. Since he was a baby, I wondered if he could have a hearing problem. He was difficult to test - finally took him to a specialist a year ago who said his hearing was fine. Well I could go on, but I must say he did not do as many dangerous things as your little one - treating his own cold!

I waited until this summer to have him evaluated, because I really wasn't sure if it was called for or not. I had nothing to compare to and was an extremely introverted child myself - so I always wondered if he could just be a normal active preschooler. Last year he went to preschool every day, giving me the opportunity to get an experienced teacher's opinion. She confirmed that his problems with attention and following directions were fairly extreme compared to the other children and asked me if I'd ever had him evaluated - so I waited for the summer to take him in (I had the teacher write a letter for me to give to the Dr). The psychiatrist we met with said ADHD looked pretty certain, but he's still being set up for the tests, so that's where we're at.

So in my case, I thought it was a good idea to wait for a teacher's opinion so that I wouldn't just sound like a mother with unreasonable expectations. But if you really are having problems protecting him from himself, maybe you should talk to your regular doctor at least - and see what they suggest.

Are you sure that's your kids, cause that sounds just like Steven. I have always said that he hit the ground running (he was rolling over at 10 days old), and hasn't stoped since.

It does sound like ADHD, and it's good that you're talking to his doctor about it. I've found the best way to convey the seriousness of something is to just be blunt. "I'm scared, and worried." "This is serious." "He's like this all the time." etc

*hugs*

Good luck with everything. Remember, we're here for you.

Holy disinhibited, Batman.

It's really scary to hear about kids who have 'no fear'. It's like their system doesn't get aroused enough to feel the message "yo, danger".

Yup. It's like they're woring to put you into an early grave.

At two, Steven undid the locks on his window (2 with the window, and one screw lock that was in the slide), pushed out the screne, and climbed out into the back yard. I didn't even know until he was trying to get in through the back door. That took a few years off my life.

Tell his doctor everything, even if it takes all day.

Thank you all so much for your replies. I am at my wit's end. It used to be that everyone thought it was "cute" the things that he did, but it is now getting dangerous. A few weeks ago he attempted to bake cookies when I was putting clothes in the washer and spilled a pot of grease inside my oven. As I was trying to convey to him the danger all he kept asking was if we were going to use a screwdriver to open up the door and clean it. I could not get him to understand the danger. He will start preschool Monday and I spoke to the teacher about my concerns and she will keep me posted about his progress. In the meantime I will speak to my ped. Tuesday, but the problem is when we go to the office he acts like a perfect angel. I will sit down and write all the situations I have encountered with him and tell her I need help. thanks, Stacey

Good luck with the Dr. Just be honest and direct. Let him know how worried you are.

It does not sound like common behavior for a 3.5 year old.

OTOH, Dr.s are often reluctant to prescribe meds to a child younger than about six years old. Some Dr's will prescribe when they are that young, but we hear about that reluctance a lot. I am not saying I agree or dissagree with that philosophy, just want to warn you about it.

Good luck.

I have a friend with a 9 yr old with ADHD and OCD. I had her call her dr. just to inquire if they would even see a 3 1/2 year old. She talked to me on the phone for about 20 minutes(which I was very impressed that a dr. took the time to talk to someone that was not even her patient) and after I listed about 15 situations that we have encountered with Carter she said she could no way diagnose over the phone, but just from the things I told her she would be pretty certain he had ADHD with the impusivity (sp?). I asked her if she would be willing to see him or if I scaired her!!! She said she would consider him a challenge!! I am seeing my ped on Tues. but my husband and I have already decided to make an appt. with the dr. no matter what the ped says. It has become exhausting--we are always on guard with him. One or the other always has to be supervising him. My dh was out of the country on business for 10 days and I nearly lost my mind. I could not do anything until Carter was in bed for the night because I could not leave him alone for a minute. He is so fast and is into something as soon as you turn your head. I am just worried about medication because we don't want to change his personality. It is what makes him so special--we just want him to be able to focus so he can understand what is right and wrong. I feel bad because he is not a "bad" kid--it is like he just can't help himself. I am sorry for going on but I am so new to this. I am reading everything I can get my hands on and feel so guilty that I let this go on for so long. I just thought he was an active child, but it has so gone beyond this. Thanks for all the replies--it is so good to know that I am not alone. Stacey

The right medication will not change his personality. Someone once told me, "Medication helps me be who I was suposed to be."

Mt husband was worried about the same thing with Steven. After we made the decision to put him on medication, his reservations are gone. Steven is still the same kids, but less hyper and all over the place.

I just don't know how to keep my cool with him. It is so exhausting all day long!!! I hate to fuss him all the time but everything is a constant battle with him. I have tried so many methods like taking my time and explaining his behavior to him to time out and so many other things but nothing ever works with him. I feel bad because I know he just can't help himself but it is so hard as a parent to feel like he is such a chore to be around. I love him so dearly and he has moments when he is the sweetest baby to be around but it is so hard to deal with him all day long. I am so looking forward to seeing a dr and hopefully dealing with this. I have so many questions and I know this is only the beginning of a very long road. Thanks so much for all of your advice--I know I will be asking many, many questions. Stacey

From what I have read this is the exact reaction they like from us. They like pushing our buttons, they like us screaming at them and they like the yelling. Why? Cuz it causes a chemical release in them that makes them feel good! I am in the process of reading of Dr Daniel Amens book about the 6 types of ADD and mine falls under the "ring of fire", she likes getting a rise out of me cuz it makes her feel better. It also explains why she stimms on the porch for an hour and half dancing and singing, because it causes the chemical reaction she is lacking. Somehow I have to figure out how to retrain myself to deal with this child, because conventional methods are not gonna teach her anything. Please take the time to read about the "ring of fire" child. It will change your whole outlook about your child.

Hi Stacey,

A 31/2 year old child is an absolute joy and it is both wonderful and frightening to watch them breaking away from complete dependence on you to experience the world around them. It sounds as if your fellow is taking on the world at warp speed. You have done the right thing by contacting your friend's doctor. Instincts play a big part in knowing when you need help and in selecting your support network. The fact that she took the time to speak by telephone with you SHOUTS care, support and respect for your concerns.

I view the initial contacts and meetings as an Interview. You are considering bringing an outsider into your private and personal world and by interviewing them you will be able to match the service with your family's immediate and future needs. Don't be frightened of asking the hard questions and telling her what you need. It is a good idea to make a list of your concerns and what you want to achieve for you, your partner, your child and your mother-in-law - big and small. eg, I am worried about ...., I want to be able to do .... knowing he is safe, I need a rest, I want him to sleep soundly, Grandma needs help with ... (ask her what she sees and/or needs when caring for your child). Forward this information to the doctor prior to meeting her so that she understands what you are hoping to achieve.

Please don't think that medicating will change your child's personality. When taken properly, medication helps the chemical balance in the brain attain a level which helps it "sort through" the competing distractors which are overcrowding the thought processes and provides a clarity of thought. This allows the individual to sort and prioritise, complete tasks, improve relationships and be more attentive to his/her environment. As a result the person's underlying personality is enhanced. You actually get to know the side that you love and appreciate. I look at it as having an unmedicated single minded, creative and interesting personality which, when medicated is an interactive, caring, sharing and responsive personality. Almost like a pair of reading glasses - a tool you use for reading and working which you take off when you are driving.

Shelley

Thanks so much for all of your responses. I can't believe I let this go on for so long. I feel so horrible that he has been going through this and being punished when he really could not control what he was doing. My mother in law usually gives me a report at the end of the day when I pick him up and she usually says "What are we going to do with him--he just does not care." today he found my daughter's keys and thank god he pushed the panic button because he walked out the front door while I was washing dishes and I was out there 30 seconds after he was and he was trying to open her car door. I know he would have tried to start it. My back yard is fenced in and we have a in ground swimming pool with a fence around it. I have a lock on the pool and today he went to play in the back yard (one of my only "safe" havens) and when I looked out the window to check on him--which I do every 30 seconds--he had the gate open. He is such a master at figuring things out. Is this typical with these children? He seems to know how to do everything!!! I then put a locking padlock on the pool gate that he can't get open. I am calling the dr. that I spoke to first thing in the morning because after this weekend I have decided no matter what my ped says I have to go forward with this. I am so afraid something happens to him. I was very afraid of how my husband would take all of this--I started researching this while he was out of the country and on Friday night I read him all the information I have found about the subject and I waited for his reaction. He answered me "they are talking about Carter". I know he wants what is best for him, but for so long we just always thought he was active and had an independent personality, but now we both realize he is different. One other thing--he has to pick out his own clothes and dress himself. He insists that everything he wears is the same color. It is a major battle everytime we go somewhere to have him dress appropriately. The school he is starting tommorrow does not require uniforms in pre-K but we have decided he will wear them to have one less battle. I have figured out a long time ago that I have to pick my battles with him because there are so many. Thanks, Stacey

I can't believe I let this go on for so long. I feel so horrible that he has been going through this and being punished when he really could not control what he was doing.
From reading your posts, I can tell that you are under an enormous amount of stress at the moment and with your husband away you have been left with the difficult task of caring for an energetic child who has worn you out. From one mother to another, please stop punishing yourself, don't panic, you are doing the right things, take a breath, sit quietly and have a look at your son sleeping. He is still a baby - 31/2 years seems like a long time but truely you have time. Don't pre-empt a diagnosis - if he really does have ADHD or any other issue, it will be okay. You have recognised that you need help so much earlier than many other families and for that you need to be commended.

It sounds to me as if you need a break. Is there anyone who can take over for an afternoon or evening to let you go to the movies or even to the beautician and pamper yourself. I was in a state of similar anxiety last week - I didn't sleep for 2 days, had a panic attack and couldn't focus on anything but the difficult issue I was facing. I called 2 friends, spent an hour sobbing with each and both volunteered to babysit. On Saturday afternoon, I spent an hour, alone with my husband doing the grocery shopping (no, it wasn't romantic but we had fun). That night my husband and I went to the movies and then a chocolate restaurant for dessert. (That was romantic!) This was the first date in 8 months - we had forgotten to set that time aside.


Is this typical with these children?
Stacey, what matters is "Is this typical for my child or my family?". Do you see any correlation between his activities with any other technically minded relative who may display similar behaviour but on a less overt scale? You have an intelligent and curious child who seems to be technically minded with a fascination for science, electronics, chemistry (remember the baking episode), motors and gadgets. Even at this age you can see the inherent skill sets he possesses.

You will be able to use this knowledge for so many different things - it helps when looking for a school: do you choose one that is an environmental/co-operative school or do you choose one that offers the International Baccalaureate which is a science and technology based curriculum? Do you chose a small local primary school or do you choose one which caters for primary to secondary school in the one campus, so that he doesn't have to change. Do you choose sports such as football or basketball as afternoon activities or do you look for science/chess clubs?

I hope you will be able to find something in these ideas which will give you a little peace.

Shelley

Stacey,

I highly suggest asking for a referral for a certified behavior Analyst (BCBA or BCaBA accredited). He/She will observe your family and your son and come up with a plan of action and teach it to you. it is your job to implement the plan of action. They are also available to call if new thing crop up or if there are instances you just don't know what to do.

I do have time away from the "madness". I work full time but my poor mother in law is with him all day. She has a daycare in her home, but has had to downsize because Carter takes up so much of her time. We live in a very small town and he will be attending a private Catholic school. My older child attends there but he is the exact opposite-very shy and quiet. I know the school will never believe these children are related!! I know of other people in my area that had their children in this school and as they got older moved them to public school because they had more programs to offer these children. My husband is great with helping with the kids. He gladly gives me a night out with the girls when he sees that I am on overload. Every couple of weeks either my parents or his will keep the boys so we can have some time alone. This weekend surely sealed the deal for both of us that it is time to move forward with this. I think he really realized how hard it is for me to care for Carter when he is not here. I feel so bad because my 7y/o is pushed aside so much because Carter needs so much attention. I try to do things alone with him so he can have some quality time too. Wish Carter luck tommorrow--1st day of preschool. Thanks, Stacey

Stacey,

I hope things get better for you.

I don't practice on the net or give individual case recommendations.

I can say though that as a general rule of thumb, where I "draw the line" clinically with children under 5, is the severity of the impairments creating multiple high risk (of injury & possible fatality) incidents.

I've posted a lot on evidence based diagnoses a number of times, so I won't go into that.

It's very important to recognize the role of genetics;not just for ADHD, but also for other problems as well.

With Pediatric Bipolar Disorder for example, the connection with ADHD is strictly "one way."

I've also posted on the "one way comorbidity" between the two.

However, if Bipolar Disorder doesn't run in the famliy/ extended family and/or isn't even suspected, then it's probably a moot point.

It never hurts to get a consultation or a second opinion.

Sometimes, children have to be protected from themselves (or what's causung the behavior).

Always trust your "gut," because it's rarely wrong.

Good luck.

tc
mctavish23
(Robert)

Please, please stop beating yourself up over this. It doesn't help anything, and is hurting you. I don't know where we mothers seemed to get the notion that we are gods that know all, see all, and can do all but that idea is BS, and hurts us and our families. We all wish kids can with instruction manuals (even parents with "normal" kids), but they don't. All we can do is the best we can.

Be glad that you have realized that this is something out of your field of expertiese, and move forward from there. Steven was six before we gave up on the "he's just an active boy" idea, and it was my sister that doped the ton of bricks on our heads. After yet another knock down, drag out tantrum she looked at me and said, "That's not a six year old, that's a two year old throwing a fit because he didn't get his way." That was my wake up moment, followed shorty by that "I've failed as a parent" moment. I haven't failed, and neither have you. None of us have failed, until we have failed to try. As long as we are trying to help out kids it's all good.

*hugs*

Here I go again-- OK I scheduled an appointment with a pediatric psycologist on Aug 30. My husband and I will go alone and a week later we will bring Carter. He started preschool today and had a very hard time separating from me. It broke my heart but I know this is what is best for him. I called and spoke to the director of the preschool program and without going into too much detail let her know my concerns about him and that we had appointments set up. She told me that they would keep and extra set of eyes on him to make sure he is safe (and the other kids too). She will get the teachers to write a little report next week on how he is doing so I can have it when I go to the dr. I feel guilty because being ignorant on the subject for so long I was one of those people that thought ADHD was just and excuse for bad behavior. I feel so horrible that I felt that way. I can't read enough and I am constantly looking for information about the disorder to help myself understand it. My other two children are so laid back so this is so new to me. When I spoke to the dr. last week and kind of let her know about Carter she did mention bipolar. Do any of you with ADHD kids notice that there are times when they are calm? There are some times that he does sit and watch something on TV or lets us read him books. I have no family history except my daughter is on Effexor because she has a hard time in social situations. I am adopted so I don't have any history past myself. My husbands family has no history of any of this. I am so nervous about his day today. He will be riding the bus home and I am hoping he can keep still. I have to be able to find some humor in the situation or I will go crazy--My husband and I are so afraid he gives haircuts to everyone in the class and tries to drive the bus home!!!!! thanks so much for all of your help.

It sounds like you are doing everything that you can for your son. Hopefully the Dr. will be able to give you some good advice. Getting the report from the preschool will be great too.

Try to relax, and rest assured that you are trying to do everything you can for him.