Hello, I am a newbie.


I am so freaking jealous of you guys!!!!!!!!!! (Sorry for the long post....can you please just read on for me... I need help!! :soapbox:, lol) I tried adderall and had a psychotic reaction that was literally HELL and reaked havoc on my life and relationships. HORRIBLE. The problem is I really want help with my ADD. I am a law student (By the grace of God), and have been blessed with a great short term memory which is the only reason I'm still in school. I can cram the night before and still pull a b- or c, so I"m still all good, but I should be doing so much better!!!! My first semester (I was scared so I was focused) I got all As and the blue book award for criminal law (best grade in the entire 500 student section). I still manage to stick around but am doing a very mediocre job..... I always cram and pull a mediocre grade, I usually end up dropping some of my classes by the time the term ends, so I'm wasting tons of time...only halfway done after 3 years ect. (I've grown to know myself, so I didn't dare go full time). LIke most of us with add, I can start out good but rarely keep it up. I also model, which I don't really like that much but need the extra cash. Believe it or not, this causes further problems....a lot of women don't like me at my church and school because they found out, and are getting a wrong impression of me. (my husband also makes it worse bragging and showing pics, lol) People seem to be hard on me because I appear to have it together, and appear like i just won't apply myself. People think Its all good, but I'm scared that I"m slowly destroying myself, like I have so many times before. I feel like a whirlwind inside...a walking pile of crap. I know you all know about the relationship issues, job hopping, moodiness, irresponsibility, chronic lateness, insecurity (a lot of times people think I"m a B---- but I"m just really insecure and afraid I'll be seen as stupid like I have so many times before) and all of the above. I am miserable. I really need help. WHY DIDN'T IT WORK FOR ME LIKE IT DID FOR YOU GUYS, LOL!!!!!!!!!!

I also think I'm developing social anxiety and depression. Women always seem to dislike me. I even cut my hair short on an impulse...trying to please people (I am bi racial, and not to be racist but a lot of black women really have issues with other black or mixed women with long hair......most of us don't grow super long hair so it is very highly valued, and people get really funny about it. So often there are women I don't even know that don't like me ... As you know, an add person does not need that because we start to hyper focus on it, so I've grown really insecure...and have a short haircut I dont even like.) I just don't seem to fit in anywhere....I'm too black in some places, not black enough in others....even some members of my own family treat me funny....ANYWAY..sorry....back on topic.

Do you know what I could try? Should I never try a stimulant again after the psychotic reaction?? Has anyone tried a natural drug that worked? Could I do a combo of stimulant and something that counters psychotic reactions or do they cancel each other out in terms of efficacy?

Please....any input would be so great! I love you guys (and I mean that....you are kindred spirits.....I love all add people, cause I know you all are sensitive and caring, with big hearts, and are truly borderline geniuses who just don't always seem to show it, lol):)'

I really need some help or I feel that I'm going to spiral out of control. One day my half-a__ efforts are going to fail me, and I'm not going to be able to repair it.

hey sweets!

I'm sorry Adderall didnt work out for you. Have you tried any other meds for your ADHD?
There are plenty of other options out there that might work for you (Ritalin, Dexedrine, Concerta, Strattera .. . )

As far as whether or not you should try another stimulant? I would suggest that you discuss that with your Dr since he/she would know best about that for you.

As for me, I found that Adderall was not helpful at all for my ADHD.

After having taken almost all of the prescription stimulants (except Vyvanse & Daytrana) over the last 15 years, and I can state that they each have their own unique qualities.

Each of us can and often do respond to these drugs in our own unque ways, and I will alway be grateful for trying different drugs after having had a negative response from some. If I had not kept on trying other drugs, I would have never found out what it feels like to find the right drug.

As far as what you could try? Obviously that will be up to your Dr, but I found the drugs Desoxyn, Dexedrine, and Focalin to be the most therapeutic of all the prescription stimulants by far.

Desoxyn and Dexedrine are usually not used early on in a patients therapy (not that I happen to agree with that, but that's the way it is usually), but Focalin is more and more being used as a first line approach.

I would suggest that you ask your Dr about whether or not one of these drugs might be a better choice for you. I hope that what ever you decide to do allows you to better treat your symptoms. I also hope that you will keep us posted as you search for the right drug or treatment for you.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience! I would pretty much echo Lars about talking to your doctor. I hope you have a good doc who works with you and listens to your concerns as well.

I know lots of people who tried many different drugs before they found one that was suitable for their needs. It just stinks because you really want to find something to help your ADD, and knowing how impatient I am myself, it must be really frustrating to have to keep trying new things. I hope your doctor is able to help you decide which one might be best for you, and I hope you find your best match quickly!

Thanks for the advice so far. The thing about asking the doctor is....I dont know if I trust docs. I mean, I don't want to trial and error with something like psychosis....when I say it was hell I mean that LITERALLY. Unfortunately, i did not imagine things that were fantastical like demon voices or anything that would be easy to realize were imaginary once the episode ended....I just became convinced of certain things about my husband trying to harm me, and even afterward the experience just affected our relationship. It was hellish in so many ways...made a fool of myself with my paranoia, damage to reputation, damage to my resume everything.

I hope someone has heard of this before and knows if you have a psychotic reaction to one if you're likely to have a psychotic reaction to others. They are all stimulants, so don't they all work similarly?

They are all stimulants, so don't they all work similarly?Yes, they do work similarly. However, from my experience that does not mean that they always work the same.

Adderall made me feel pronounced sedation. It was the same feeling as what it appears a bear or an elephant experiences after being hit with a tranquilizer dart. It was the only stimulant to EVER cause me to feel a paradoxical reaction, and to be honest I have no idea as to why it did that.

I'm sorry to hear about the psychosis, but from what I understand about amphetamine psychosis it usually happens when a person is, or has been taking too much amphetamine. I'm not trying to say that you were intentionally taking too much. However, what I am saying is that some people are hypersensitive to these drugs, and where one person takes 60mg a day, another person may find that 1.25mg per day is optimal for them. There is no way for a Dr, or anyone to know how a particular person will respond to any given drug, so sometimes these things happen simply due to the fact that a person is just genetically wired (most likely IMO) in such a way that causes them to be much more sensitive to a certain drug.

I understand that all *amphetamine related* stimulants are psychotogenic. My SO is a shrink and he has mentioned this before.
Psychosis on low doses of amphetamines can happen. (Certain people's brains are probably more vulnerable, for some reason.)
Similarly, some folks can smoke marijuana 1x and develop psychosis/schizophrenia/delusional disorder/schizoaffective, etc. :(



Were it me, I'd avoid amphetamine-related stimulants, and things like Selegiline (MAOIs), and _non-drowsy Cold Medicines_ (they contain pseudo-ephedrine; used to make "meth"; similar to amphetamine.)


Don't know if this history precludes you from taking some other non-amphetamine types of stimulants, such as Wellbutrin or Effexor.
My one acquaintance has had psychotic depression/depressive psychosis (delusions, etc, as you mention) and is able to take Effexor.


I guess you likely know that both Wellbutrin and Effexor are stimulating antidepressants that act mildly like Stimulants, and are Rx'd "off=label" for ADD/ADHD.
Talk to your Doc!!!
:D

Thanks. It is very possible that I am hypersensitive because when I first had the bad reaction, the doc gave me seroquel and started me out very low because that was what he also thought (sensitive to meds) and only 25 mg. worked for me. He later told me that most people need about 300 mg. to help them out of an acute episode where they are terrified like I was. Thank you. Any other responses/viewpoints are also very very welcome!

I also, now that I think about it, got very very afraid eventually on Marijuana too. Not at first, it was actually really fun at first, but after about 6 months of smoking recreationally about 3 times a week, I had a bad time once. I did not flip like I did on the adderall, but I was afraid and wanted to leave the party. I just felt for some reason that it was dangerous because there were people I didn't know, and everything was very deep to me, and everyone seemed disapproving. I felt so bad because I knew God could see me doing this and I felt it was so wrong. Then I got scared it was laced and my heart was beating too fast. I never did it again. So maybe I am just sensitive to feeling out of control or over stimulated. I was on 20 mg. twice a day when i flipped out...it started at 10 and went up,....and it was weird all the way up until the total psychosis at 20 mg. (only noticed it was strange at the lower doses in retrospect though).

I also, now that I think about it, got very very afraid eventually on Marijuana too. Not at first, it was actually really fun at first, but after about 6 months of smoking recreationally about 3 times a week, I had a bad time once. I did not flip like I did on the adderall, but I was afraid and wanted to leave the party. I just felt for some reason that it was dangerous because there were people I didn't know, and everything was very deep to me, and everyone seemed disapproving. I felt so bad because I knew God could see me doing this and I felt it was so wrong. Then I got scared it was laced and my heart was beating too fast. I never did it again.What you describe here is often referred to as 'a bad trip'. In my experience, it is 100% related to marijuana overdose. Not overdose in the sense that it will kill you, but in the sense that it makes you feel uncontrollably uncomfortable. The same uncontrolable uncomfortableness as the classic "world is spinning and I can't stop it" one too many drinks. I've experienced it several times and in every case was linked to a higher dose than I was normally comfortable with. It's very difficult to control your dose of marijuana by smoking. First, it's completely dependent on the mechanism by which you smoke it (joint, pipe, bong), how much there is in it (the roach is more concentrated since it has absorbed the rest of the smoke coming through it), and second because the peak effects take a good 10-20 minutes to make themselves felt it's easy to think "meh, I can handle one more toke."

The only way I can describe the effects of marijuana is an intensification of your hyperfocus. It may be especially so for ADDers. i.e. if you can't help but thinking that your heart's going to explode, you're really going to focus on that for a LONG time and not be able to let go. If you can't help but feeling happy, you're going to laugh like crazy. If you feel paranoid socially (very common), you'll hang on to that thought and it can scare the crap out of you.

There are ways to cope with that. Whatever your position, sitting, laying down or standing, tilt your head some other way. It's a simple move yet it will make all the difference. Just a simple head tilt will change your focus from one thing to another. That doesn't mean that you may not go back to your first focus, but it could be enough to take you out of it. And the magic thing is that when you take your focus away from the "heart exploding out of your chest" thing, you know what? Your heart doesn't feel like it's exploding out of your chest anymore! Focus your thoughts on your tingling toes, and before long you'll feel your toes tingle and your heart or paranoia will be the last thing on your mind.

I haven't smoked in a long time, but I've had a lot of experience with it. And my only advice if you must smoke marijuana is to take small portions more frequently, than taking a huge portion and ending up with a bad trip.

I'm stumped as to how people can handle such huge doses. It didn't take me much to get in a situation like you describe, so I always smoked waaaay less than everyone else in the room.

And the nice thing is that a small toke vs. a large doobie is akin to having one or two glasses of wine vs. over a dozen beers at a keg party. Personally, I've done some of my best school work on an extremely mild, hardly felt dose of marijuana. It gave me just the write amount of hyperfocus and creativity that I needed to focus on the task at hand. In fact, the feeling I liked about Marijuana is very similar as the one I get from Adderall + Strattera, minus feeling tired and lazy. But, only in very small doses. Otherwise, it turns me into extreme ADD, with a multitude of introspective thoughts coming from all over the place. It becomes too much to handle, and it's often the negative ones that tend to "stick", because fear is a feeling that must take a front seat in your consciousness because it is a survival mechanism.

btw, a lower dose of Adderall may be what you need. It may have been just too much.

I never thought about the marijuana experience as having to do with add , but it makes perfect sense, the hyperfocus and all. Im; glad you explained it because I thought I just had a problem with anything that altered my consciousness....that maybe being out of control scared me so I was afraid to try anything else. Maybe i can try strattera or effexor. I'm still afraid to do the adderall again. That was hell on earth.

imagine thinking and being totally convinced somehow that the people you loved most were out to harm you and destroy your life. It made no sense but was so scary and their faces and phrases were all exaggerated. It was a parallel universe and I never want to see it again. I actually began to think I had died in a previous accident i had that year, and was suddenly in pergatory or hell for some reason. Very scary.

Unfortunately, this all went down when there really were some problems we were having in the family, so after the adderall went out of my system, the Hell part went away, but I still had a hard time trusting my husband and certain family members because the stuff I misinterpreted seemed so real, or certain fights and cross words really were said, but I just read even more into it so it was hard to get past. Madness.

I totally get what you mean.
After much experience, I've learned to not be too quick at believing everything I "figure out" while smoking marijuana. Some conclusions I've come to made perfect sense while smoking up. While I did make discoveries about myself, many times the clairvoyant moment of a conclusion that seemed so real, true and obvious was nothing but a wolf in sheep's disguise.

I never thought about the marijuana experience as having to do with add , but it makes perfect sense, the hyperfocus and all. Im; glad you explained it because I thought I just had a problem with anything that altered my consciousness....that maybe being out of control scared me so I was afraid to try anything else. Maybe i can try strattera or effexor. I'm still afraid to do the adderall again. That was hell on earth.

imagine thinking and being totally convinced somehow that the people you loved most were out to harm you and destroy your life. It made no sense but was so scary and their faces and phrases were all exaggerated. It was a parallel universe and I never want to see it again. I actually began to think I had died in a previous accident i had that year, and was suddenly in pergatory or hell for some reason. Very scary.

Unfortunately, this all went down when there really were some problems we were having in the family, so after the adderall went out of my system, the Hell part went away, but I still had a hard time trusting my husband and certain family members because the stuff I misinterpreted seemed so real, or certain fights and cross words really were said, but I just read even more into it so it was hard to get past. Madness.Please make sure you have a good doctor. Yeah sounds much more serious than the delusions that weed can cause. I'd recommend you see a psychologist experienced in treating ADD. Stimulants might just not be for you.

Do you have any history of schizophrenia in your family?
Any other mental illness?

the reason people take such high doses of seroquel is that they develop a tolerance from it and also they may be psychotic at the time and it takes 200mg-300mg to start having the desired effects. 20mg is enough to make most people go to sleep so don't think you're hyper-sensitive just because of this.

I would say stay the hell away from stimulants unless you have a good psychologist treating you. Just my opinion but what you went through sounds awful and is not normal at all.

peace

Hello Sweets,

I'm not nearly as versed as many are on this forum, and what I add here may in no way benefit you, but should you feel that your trial of adderall has affected your mental state after discontinuing it I would like to add this tid-bit for you or anyone else who might benefit from reading it. My doctor has tried this with a few of his patients who suffered from short term memory loss several months after comming out of anestisia from a surgery. He put them on Welbutrin for a few months and from what I understand it worked well for them. He suggested it to me when I complained about suffereing short term memory loss from taking Phentermine diet pills in 1998. I took Phentermine every day for six months and after a few months I started having short term memory problems. I was also having temper outburst (fortunately in private) that would result in a verbal outrage of endless profanity. I knew something was not right and I decided (unwisely) to quit the drug cold turkey. I then suffered a form of withdrawel period where I was emotionally flat for almost a year. While I gained a fair degree of my short term memory function back it was nothing like it was before. This went on for several years until my doctor put me on a round of Welbutrin for two months (2003). I don't know how or why it worked so well but I knew it had opened many pathways that had long been shut and I got most of my short term snap back. I stopped taking it after about two months and fortunately the benefits continued afterwards. I've read where some people take Welbutrin for ADD and you may want to consider giving it a try. While it helped me with my memory issues I have to say it did very little for my ADD symptoms. I can only suggest this for those whos memory have been affected from long or short term use of stimulant drugs. I know this does not apply entirely to your question but for some reason my intuition told me to post this for you. I hope you are able to find an alternative that will help you. Good luck and keep searching!

Charles

I have no prior history of anything at all except the bad reactions to weed. No family history of schizophrenia or anything like that. I am totally normal now...In law school and working an internship....no problems except add.

It wasn't a history of schizophrenia, just like none of the others who had this side effect had. Its simply a side effect of stimulants that can happen, and the drug companies try to make it sound as rare as possible. If you google it you see many instances from both kids and adults. Its a side effect and a danger. Also, some people develop it later, so all of us taking stimulants need to know to watch for it.

Oh, where did you get your facts about seroquel? That's not what the doctor said. He said that it usually is totally ineffective except for insomnia at 25 mg. You mentioned 20 mg. making people sleep, well I agree but how does that relate to treating psychosis??? I wasn't taking it to just sleep, lol. I WAS drug induced psychotic as well, and the 25 mg. worked for me. Others in the same boat are reported as needing about 200 mgs. to really help with the psychosis by lowering dopamine. 25 mg. lowered my dopamine sufficiently, and the doc. thinks perhaps things stay in my body longer due to liver metabolism, hence heightened effects.

Also, from what I have read, no tolerance develops for seroquel either...once an appropriate dose is found it works and rarely has to be raised. It is only raised while titrating to an appropriate dose for the individual.

Oh, where did you get your facts about seroquel? That's not what the doctor said. He said that it usually is totally ineffective except for insomnia at 25 mg. You mentioned 20 mg. making people sleep, well I agree but how does that relate to treating psychosis??? I wasn't taking it to just sleep, lol. I WAS drug induced psychotic as well, and the 25 mg. worked for me. Others in the same boat are reported as needing about 200 mgs. to really help with the psychosis by lowering dopamine. 25 mg. lowered my dopamine sufficiently, and the doc. thinks perhaps things stay in my body longer due to liver metabolism, hence heightened effects.

Also, from what I have read, no tolerance develops for seroquel either...once an appropriate dose is found it works and rarely has to be raised. It is only raised while titrating to an appropriate dose for the individual.Everyone that I know that has taken seroquel gets turned into a zombie at 10-25mg. The only person I know that takes 200mg is a schizophrenic. I think I misunderstood your post, I have some problems reading through large amounts of text sometimes.

I know this is a subjective account but from what I've seen and experienced most people don't need a huge dose for amphetamine related psychosis (I could be wrong and chances are I am)

Sorry if I confused you chances are your doctor is right.

Oh, no apologies necessary. I was just wondering if that was published somewhere because the only thing that makes sense to me about any of this is hypersensitivity. But then again, just because I may feel more comfortable with a particular thought or theory doesn't make it true, lol. I was just wondering if that were somewhere, because docs don't always know everything either.

at 25 mg., it does make you sleepy, but I thought schizos took like 500 mg. I remember reading a lot about it for the week or so I took it.

But anyway, yeah, no need to apologize. :-)

My child had a psychotic-type reaction to Adderal, but I knew that was a possibility. I also later discovered that the cause, in her case, was severe hypomania due to undiagnosed bipolar disorder, triggered by the stimulant.

She is, of course, now treated for the bipolar disorder, and currently taking Vyvanse with no ill effects. Before that she did well on dexedrine spansules.

I am really sorry you had this kind of experience. I have never had a problem anything like that caused by meds and hope that I never will!!

But with regards to Adderall ;) I personally hated the stuff. I know it works for so many people here, and I am happy for them, but for me? UGH!!

and have been blessed with a great short term memoryA lot of people with ADHD have poor short term memory. :confused: