View Full Version : 100mg of 5-HTP away from manic mood swings? Is this possible?


meadd823
08-22-07, 01:22 AM
Warning this is long but I do have a ADD short attention span version begining at the bottom. ..

Man this has taken me all evening to write. . . hope someone has time to read it = sorry so long guys.

I read about how 5-HTP was supposed to help regulate sleep cycles and produce a calm effect. I take melatonin {when I remember before the sun raises} and omega-3, but my sleep cycle still sucked. I went to the local health place in the next town where I have gotten to know the proprietor fairly well. I bough a bottle of these 5-HTP and began taking it a couple of weeks ago. The bottle said of 50mg capsules said take one daily for one week and if tolerated increase to twice daily. As I am sure many of you are way to familiar with some things simply need idiot lights and mood seem to be one of them.



After a week I really did not see any problem although Gary and I got into a few more arguments than usual those thing kind of fluctuate any way. So about a week in a half ago I went up to the twice a daily dose. I really didn’t notice any changes in my mood the only thing I really noticed is I had a hard time sleeping. Being hyperactive ADD I have bouts of insomnia any way but I do feel drug out during the day. Oddly enough I often have to take Xanax to be able to sleep the second night but I have never in 43+ years gone more than two nights without sleep or on very little sleep. I can wind my self up enough to function physically but mentally my IQ is equivalent to a box of rocks {and I am not taking the shiny rocks either}

The second night came and I took the Xanax even though I didn’t really feel like it. It helped but only for a few hours then I was up again. The third night the Xanax didn’t help me sleep at all but it did decrease my physical activity for a few hours. I did notice the next day my thought were racing so fast I felt like I was giving myself a head ache. I vaguely noticed the lack of animal life attached to my being. I did trip over the dog who normally lays next to me no matter where I am or what I am doing, Even though she has been doing it for almost seven years now I still forget and trip over her. The kitten “fussy butt” wasn’t in my lap jumping at my fingers every so often when I type but again I didn’t really stop to consider what it all meant. I have had a few episodes here and there but being blunt and strongly opinionated has gotten me into trouble before so again I did not think much about it.


Yesterday I had music playing in my head so loud it was driving me mad so I share the madness with every one and every thing around me, Heck it was them I didn’t see any thing different about me. I mean I was wondering wtf was wrong with every one these days. Night four comes and goes and that was last night, I laid in bed but never went into a decent sleep. I got up a few times but did not turn on the computer lest Gary blame it for my insomnia again. Gary has a hard time understanding the computer doesn’t keep me awake I am on the computer because I can’t sleep. He must had been disturbed last night by my constant movement because he knew exactly when I was up and when I laid back down and this is highly usual for Gary. Normally when Gary sleeps the only thing between him and the dead is he has a pulse and respirations and that is about it.

Finally the sun comes out so I can get out of bed but Gary popped up right after me. I was really beginning wonder what in the heck was up with his ***. He asked if I had any of those reference books about bipolar still in my shelf. I read about it because of my daughter.

I said “yes why?”. . ..

He then ask me “Now how long ago did you and your doctor talk about the possibility of you having it.?”

“ Well a little after my sister was diagnosed. Why”??? . . . .

“My ex-wife was bipolar”

“Well yes I remember you telling me and I have spoken with her a few times on the phone when she was manic Are you planning to go back to your ex-wife?”

“No but I swear you are doing some of the same things she used to do. No you haven’t jumped out of any moving vehicle nor have you spoken to any angels recently but still the way you are acting is just like she would just before she did things like meet with God! Tammy I can’t handle another hallucinating woman!”

“Now annoyed I answer with “Well number one not all bipolar people hallucinate or become psychotic only bipolar type ones do . . Number two Gary I am not bi-polar I do not meet the DSMV criteria I already told you that.”

“Last year you probably didn’t but last week is a different story all together. Some thing is wrong and I swear you are dong the same stuff. . .not sleeping, being irritable, taking every thing personally I know what mania looks like. “

“Gee Gary I know what ADD looks like and would you like a paddle for that boat you live in on the river of denial ? “

I gave him the book because clobbering him would have probably landed me in jail.

He pops into the bed room a little while later he ask “have you done any thing lately with your medications or some thing?”

Now jail does sound like such a bad idea after all “No I haven’t changed my medications Gary I do know I have been unable to sleep for the past couple of nights but you know I have trouble sleeping some times”

He now raises his voice “NOT for four of five nights in a row! Tammy come on!”

I sat down and tried to think if I had done any thing different “Maybe mania is contagious over the phone? I talked to my sister and my daughter.”

He gives me a look.

Finally it dawned on me “I had begun taking 5-HTP about two weeks ago. One of the few things I actually remember to take on any kind of regular basis and this is what happens? Maybe being forgetful isn’t so bad after all.”

Gary suggestion was “burn it and never take that crap again, I prefer the real you heck I could even handle the ditz you but I can’t handle the irritable I can’t get a word in edge wise you”

I am thinking you know I did out talk Gary yesterday, I didn’t know that was possible while a second voices come in saying you know this could be a clue


I really do not fit the DSMV criteria for bipolar but I do have a few of the same symptoms The bipolar like symptoms I do have are either not long enough , not sever enough “to qualify” or are indicative of my hyper type of ADD {which is now turning into more of a combined thanks to maturity} . According to Dr. John Ratey in his book “Shadow syndromes” I probably have “traits” I simply do not fully qualify for the condition. The theory is certain genetic factors make one predisposition to developing bipolar. I have some of the same genetic make up as my diagnosed bipolar sister and my diagnosed bipolar daughter {like duh I know} but I simply have not either had the condition triggered by my environment or my genetic make up is close enough to cause some traits but different enough to not have full blown condition. {according to some lit that could be yet apparently bipolar can develop at any time – it goes with that puberty I forgot to reach 30 years ago}

According to the same book I am supposed to be very creative as first degree relatives of bipolar people are supposed to have a high rate of creative traits. Okay where was I. . . . if I had to stand in line I probably got distracted by some ting shiny and wondered off and forgot to pick up my creativity {damn ADHD :eyebrow: I should have gotten the creativity first then the ADHD oh well.}

My point is . . . .{ADD short attention span translation}

#1- WATCH what the hell you swallow I don’t care how all natural it is!!!

If you are already bipolar or simply have a first degree bipolar relative or two or three. If this 5-HTP was enough to send me into a tail spin then it could really do a number on some one with the full blown condition.

Naturally I have been reading and some people do take this supplement in small doses under the supervision of a doctor along WITH a mood stabilizer.

**Please note **There is no medical literature to back up my theory not could I find any but I know what happened and if any of you follow my post you may have noticed yourselves.


#2 Listen your spouse, animals and friends {every one but yourself} even if you do not see the mania approaching!

Take note when every one else is being buttheads. . or when the whole world is avoiding you. It could really be you. {duh again I know but hey I did not feel like any thing was wrong}



#3 And for God’s sake watch those dang sleep cycles. My first and biggest clue was in my sleep cycle changes.

I do not know if this is the same for those who have the "offical condition" but I would think so {and no I don't know why I think so either=stiill slightly manic when it comes to my opinion = possibility}

I do not know what it is like to have the full blown condition as many of you do but I got close enough. Apparently I am about 100mg away from experiencing many of the same thing I read here in this section.

I learned . . . . .

A) Any hint of mania does NOT go well with my hyperactive ADD.

I can’t afford another condition so I am really hoping and praying it was the supplement .

B) If it isn’t and I am really entering into a new condition that I can’t afford I am afraid I will not notice. . . . I may need some rather blunt help and I hear this groups was the bluntest.

And last of all but not least WTF is up with the smell thing?

My sensitive hearing is bad enough, when my medications wear off I can add sensitive tactile sensations to the things that distract the pi** out of me! In all honesty I do not need another sense distracting the poop out of me! I will never get any thing done.

I could smell every thing !!! Gary and went to the park yesterday I smelled honey suckles from three blocks away This would not be too bad if most odors were pleasant but they aren’t. :eek: Frankly most things tend stink no that word isn’t strong enough most things tend to REEK and are NOT pleasant . . .. I could smell the trash, sweat, I swear two days ago I could smell my cat which I can now tell you smells different than my dog {who has had several baths this week because I could not figure out why no matter what I washed her in I couldn't get rid of her smell. I love her but she smells so much like . . . . . . well dog. . . . . . . I just never really notice it before. . . . . . . . . . .:faint: }!

Crazy~Feet
08-22-07, 03:50 AM
I am way beyond the point where I could possibly read this whole post, girl, but I promise to read it tomorrow. Looks like something I really need to know about. As for this:

And last of all but not least WTF is up with the smell thing?

My sensitive hearing is bad enough, when my medications wear off I can add sensitive tactile sensations to the things that distract the pi** out of me! In all honesty I do not need another sense distracting the poop out of me! I will never get any thing done.

I could smell every thing !!! Gary and went to the park yesterday I smelled honey suckles from three blocks away This would not be too bad if most odors were pleasant but they aren’t. :eek: Frankly most things tend stink no that word isn’t strong enough most things tend to REEK and are NOT pleasant . . .. I could smell the trash, sweat, I swear two days ago I could smell my cat which I can now tell you smells different than my dog {who has had several baths this week because I could not figure out why no matter what I washed her in I couldn't get rid of her smell. I love her but she smells so much like . . . . . . well dog. . . . . . . I just never really notice it before. . . . . . . . . . .:faint: }
All I can say is....be glad you only visited my world. I happen to live there, and now you know...

Most things do reek, and are unpleasant. In fact unpleasant is a very mild word for it. :soapbox:

Why do you think I call them "stenches" anyway? ;)

meadd823
08-22-07, 04:18 AM
The hearing thing is enough for me, the smell thing I have never really experienced before and yes it was NOT any fun. I can drowned out a sound with head phones but I simply could not drowned out a smell. I even tried incense to cover the dog smell . . .okay then I smelled sandle wood and dog = it really wasn't much of an improvement. My poor puppy was water logged and couldn't figure out what she did wrong. I stopped the 5-HTP today and I can be in the same room but when she scoots to be closer I begin to smell her . . . she now smells like vinegar and dog. . .. {drats} last night it was hair conditioner and dog. . . . .I simply cannot find a scent that goes good with dog not even very clean ummm okay squeeky clean dog. . . .. poor puppy thinks moma has lost her mind. . .she wasn't far off- ;)

Sky81
08-22-07, 07:09 AM
And last of all but not least WTF is up with the smell thing?

My sensitive hearing is bad enough, when my medications wear off I can add sensitive tactile sensations to the things that distract the pi** out of me! In all honesty I do not need another sense distracting the poop out of me! I will never get any thing done.

I could smell every thing !!! Gary and went to the park yesterday I smelled honey suckles from three blocks away This would not be too bad if most odors were pleasant but they aren’t. :eek: Frankly most things tend stink no that word isn’t strong enough most things tend to REEK and are NOT pleasant . . .. I could smell the trash, sweat, I swear two days ago I could smell my cat which I can now tell you smells different than my dog {who has had several baths this week because I could not figure out why no matter what I washed her in I couldn't get rid of her smell. I love her but she smells so much like . . . . . . well dog. . . . . . . I just never really notice it before. . . . . . . . . . .:faint: }!
One of the things I notice when I'm manic (and not hypomanic, but manic)....it that I become hyperperceptive.....and in involvles both my sense of sight and sense of smell.....and occasionally will mix up the two in my brain and smell something I see......but that is a whole other issue....

I could smell flowers from blocks away, I could smell rain before it started, I could smell ozone before I even saw a cloud in the sky indicating a coming thunderstorm.....I could all of a sudden smell candles in a drawer in the kitchen from my bedroom.....

I noticed a funky odor coming from my fridge and I couldn't figure out what it was so kept washing it out....and the smell wouldn't go away...

So yeah I notice a change in my sense of smell when I'm on my way up.....

Lafnalot
08-22-07, 10:11 AM
I am so sensitive to smells that I gag and vomit from them. Loud noises are out for my startle reflex cant handle it...the feel of a scraping tag against my skin,bras, underwear....and this is most days, triple it if manic. I smell snow, as does my friend Jill, we smell it on its way, we smell it when its coming down, Robert had to stop using Lysol cleaner because, while he loves the smell, it overwhelms me.

I felt I wasn't bipolar and fought the first diagnosis tooth and nail. Im often too bright for my own good, I felt I didn't meet the criteria. After all, I don't feel invincible (though I often call feel my charisma just oozing and Im the life of the party) I don't go on spending sprees (But I have punched holes in my rented house walls so I could run cords through them---it seemed like a good idea at the time which was 3am)I do get depressed and have been suicidal, self injurous but heck I had a rough life-nothing a lil talk therapy wouldn't help..(eventhough I did eight years of it already) I dont get aggressive (HA don't touch me physically, don't startle me, don't catch me on a bad day, don't hurt my feelers...then Im not aggressive)...ok maybe Im a LIL bipolar I said after abit....now I know, Im, bipolar with ADHD traits, whether that means Im adhd and bpolar, doesnt matter any more. What matters is the behaviours and what am I doing today about them. Which came first, the chicken or the egg is no longer important to me.

Im glad you found what you saw was triggering this manic like episode.

speedo
08-22-07, 06:43 PM
I believe you if you say that you are bipolar, but according to my pdoc is is very possible for some medications to cause a person to experience rapid cycling without being bipolar. I had a nasty experience when I forgot my meds and the tenex wore off completely, I rebounded from that but my wellbutrin remained in full effect (which makes me hyper and anxious on rebound). I started rapid cycling and I thought I had gone bonkers. I'm a lot more careful about that now. :faint:

Also...

You are not the first person to discover that over the counter medications have undocumented side effects. I like to take melatonin to help me sleep, but I dare not take it for more than a few days as it causes me to develop diahrhea in the mornings .... helloooo!!!.. peripheral nervous system!!... :eek: Be careful with this off label stuff. It is way scarey.

Me :D

meadd823
08-23-07, 06:56 AM
I noticed a funky odor coming from my fridge and I couldn't figure out what it was so kept washing it out....and the smell wouldn't go away...

So yeah I notice a change in my sense of smell when I'm on my way up.....

There has always got to be that funky smell that won’t go away- man that sucks.

thanks sky I normally can not smell a thing but yea I was getting where I smelled every thing = quite annoying actually. I was actually happy when some one mowed clogging my entire head for a while so I could quit smelling stuff. The effects must be wearing off becuase I could stand to hug Gary after work and I didn't have to wash his swet smell of of me. . . .it wasn't as pungent.

{sigh} so I guess Gary was right after all { btw-I hate it when he is right}

I just pray it was a temporary trigger and did not make it a perminate effect. My daughters was triggered by an antidepressant and it never went away. I also understand from reading that some time bipolar is triggered by the environment.

To be honest I simply have no idea how you guys do it especially before you got medication to help.

The reality skew really got me. I have always known I was different and it is like with ADD that is typical. Yes being ADD makes me different but I knew I was different. The scariest part to me was I flat did not KNOW I was being any different than I normally am. It seems like I should have. As the 5-HTP begin to wear off I can see now how I was different but why didn’t I notice then? I was taking every thing personally having to ask my sister if some thing some one said as directed at me ect. . . .I was seeing meaning where there was none and normally it is the other way around. I normally don’t see meaning to a comment even if it is directed at me. Half the time even if I do I don’t bother to even care. . .why didn’t I notice the sudden emotional sensitivity ? Gravy . . .that crap is hard.

Now I feel like I am returning form some kind of mind trip. . . .. rather weird to describe. It is like every thing stay the same but different . . . . .I am afraid if this darn thing did set me off I wouldn’t notice. Some would have to tell me . . .no no that would be some one would have to YELL at me. . . . that is what Gary had to do. . . .and he had to back up his statement Hmmm interesting how he knew he would. . . . . . :faint:


Apparently Gary is like me he is the space cadet that can suddenly grow a brain at the weirdest times{maybe why we get along}. . . .I am grateful that he not only noticed he knew what he was seeing and how to handle it. . . . .

meadd823
08-23-07, 07:08 AM
I believe you if you say that you are bipolar, but according to my pdoc is is very possible for some medications to cause a person to experience rapid cycling without being bipolar

I typed the initial post when I was 3/4th in another dimension but it still took me all afternoon . Why couldn’t the damn mania fix the dyslexia drats. . . .lest it could have made me a decent speller. . . .but no thing just don’t cancel each other out like that they just pile on top of each other.

My theory is that my genetic make up is close enough to my daughter and sister who are both diagnosed bi-polar that there is a possibility that the drug changed my chemistry enough to induce bi-polar symptoms. Thus the title 100mg of 5-HTP from being bi-polar. When I think about it that really isn’t much of a “safety margin”. It is quiet intriguing I have probably been this close all of my life but simply didn’t realize it.

When reviewing the literature according to the DSMV the manic reaction to an antidepressant drug would place me in the qualifying criteria for actual diagnosis.. . . that the 5-HTP probably changed my brain chemistry only a small amount. . . . .I was only on it a couple of weeks It is supposed to take four weeks for the full effects to emerge. . .Lord only knows where that would have landed me = the stratosphere?

For me logic dictates it would be wise to simply discontinue the offending medication and see if the symptoms clear up before considering adding yet another medication. At my age who wants to rush the pill brigade any way. . . .

My fear now is even if the symptoms return on thier own I won't notice just like I didn't notice this time. . . .




had a nasty experience when I forgot my meds and the tenex wore off completely, I rebounded from that but my wellbutrin remained in full effect (which makes me hyper and anxious on rebound). I started rapid cycling and I thought I had gone bonkers. I'm a lot more careful about that now

I understand completely , I will be a lot more careful about swallowing stuff that has undocumented side effects.







You are not the first person to discover that over the counter medications have undocumented side effects.

I just got done with one of sweet3000’s post and couldn’t help but laugh when I remembered why I had taken the darn 5-HTP to begin with. . . . because I wanted to end my need for Xanax. Every one know Xanax is a benzodiazepam and has a high potential for addiction. . . I am unsure how because frankly I really don’t care much for the drowsy effects . . . . but I have to take it from time to time for anxiety. I was hoping to find a non-drowsy way of relieving my bouts with anxiety {that I am too ADD to feel but have physical reactions to it any way} This 5-HTP was supposed to have a claming effect. . . .oh brother. . . . . THAT was sooooo wrong . . . . .


The sad part is speedo I KNEW better. :o I KNEW better than to play with my own brain . . . How many times have I told others any thing that can have an effect can have a bad one. . . .:soapbox: . . .boy I forgot just how truthful that little saying was.

Crazy~Feet
08-23-07, 07:11 AM
I even tried incense to cover the dog smell . . .okay then I smelled sandle wood and dog = it really wasn't much of an improvement.Yup! That's how it works alright! And its also why I want to attack people who say "Just spray something if it smells that bad." :eyebrow: and beat them about the head with a blunt object.

I mean seriously, you think sandalwood and dog is bad? Try oranges and A** spilling out of the restroom and following you for a block or so...:faint:.

justhope
08-23-07, 10:36 AM
Well Sis,

Welcome to the darkside...ain't it grand. It's funny this years theme with you.
Went from really getting in touch with it, with chella, then me..and decided to absorb it for your CEU's....and .....now you have decided to dabble in it.

It's not fun, although we think it is for awhile. Yep the sleep cycle, that was the last and final thing that did it for me. You know me, I LOVE to sleep. When I can't ...for days....even though it was fun for the first night...time to see the doctor.

All I can tell you is ..

THERE IS NO MORE ROOM FOR ANOTHER BIPOLAR IN OUR FAMILY.....:)

But God forbid ..if you are ...you are in the right place and in good company.

Hey here is thought ...how about that dreaded ....M word? I know you are just a young thing....but you know that messes with all that.....

Ok well gotta get ready for work...I'll catch you on the other side....

Lil Sis


Oh yea...I forgot something...in case you get here ....


HAPPY BIRTHDAY.......:p

meadd823
08-24-07, 11:39 PM
Thanks sis, well I did finally get an entire eight hours of sleep. . . and I did feel better.

I always felt like sleeping was a lot like eating = a required redundant activity that interfered with life. After a week of poor sleep I have learned first hand just how much sleep deprivation can screw with ya. It tweaks reality and for me I was as irritable as a junk yard dog with rabies. Nothing was good enough especially any thing I touched and I really had a hard time telling where my emotions were. It was kind of like my hyperactivity but then again kind of not. Being hyperactive means a zillion things running through your mind but during the manic well it was more like thought slammed into my head = rather uncomfortable feeling actually. It was like invasion of the brain snatchers.

My activity level was high but it is normally like that but without the agitation and the feeling that the rest of the world is moving much too s.....l.....o......w......l......y and I just wanted them to move the ***k out of my way I had a life to attend to. It can be the same with hyperactivity which is where the impatience comes into play but again different in the perceptual department and defiantly in intensity. . . . .being hyper only I could be half a** civil but manic = people are lucky I LET them live -lol!

I think the emotional thing was really almost as bad as the sleep deprivation and I also feel especially now that my feet are back on the planet that the mood intensity is related to the lack of sleep . . .hard to explain really . Normally though I could feel say annoyed but be able to "reason with my self" but this taste of mania I didn't even realize I needed to be talked down. . .heck who was irritable???? and wtf are you looking at quit being so over sensitive. . .okay saying that to Gary should have been a clue{but at the time it wasn't} Gary is much like me in that 2 x 4s may or may not phase him . .. . .he is any thing but emotionally sensitive. . . . but for a while there he sure seemed to be.

With his recent mechanical break downs I am glad I am back to my normal self because break downs are frustrating enough when you do not feel like strangling the entire humanoid population . . ..

The scariest thing now is knowing that if it happens again I probably will NOT know just like I did not know this time. I am hoping that I will remember to listen to others if they tell me I am acting manic, Then I have to remember I have ADD which screws with my memory {damn-it} It must suck having to deal with one condition that screws with your memory all the time while also dealing with another that screws with your reality. . . . . . but only part of the time{just in case you were board loosing crap all the time} . The fun part being you will not know when because I some how doubt mania {or depression} are polite enough to schedule an appointment.

Thanks for reading my mini-book. . . ..

FrazzleDazzle
08-25-07, 12:12 AM
Meadd, you are in good company with your hubby, he will remember; he will let you know. And, we remember, we will let you know too! You didn't take the stuff for that long, and it's usually something you have to KEEP taking in order to get the "results." I certainly don't know it all, but I don't believe it would make a permanent dent. The AA's don't generally work that way when you take them that wey. It sounds awful what you went through, and we are lucky enough you are human enough to post about it and share about it with us. Reading your experience and from the other posters responses, had really helped me to understand better what bi-polar is and what if feels like. You are very good at all the details that went along with it. It's also a huge wake up call to all of us, how potent these things can be, in both a helpful way AND a harmful way, when the chemistry is not right.

Glad you are back with us!