View Full Version : Bipolar Reasoning, the Meadd Way


meadd823
09-04-07, 06:49 AM
1. The patient has had repeated episodes of major depression (four or more).

I do not have four documented case but two hospitalizations due to acts connected to depression and once when I was considered anxious. . . .




2. The first episode of major depression occurred before age 25 (some experts say before age 20, a few before age 18; most likely, the younger you were at the first episode, the more it is that bipolar disorder, not "unipolar", was the basis for that episode).

I was 23



3. A first-degree relative (mother/father, brother/sister, daughter/son) has a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.

Does all three count. My mother says my Dad had wide mood swings and was hospitalized more than once for depression or act related to depression.

My daughter was diagnosed at 12 and my sister was diagnosed last year but has been having problems that were difficult to put your finger for several years . I noticed early on neither of their ADD responded to medication and standard treatment like my ADD did despite the fact that my ADD was more sever it seemed to be easier to treat. We always thought that was strange.






4. When not depressed, mood and energy are a bit higher than average, all the time ("hyperthymic personality").

:confused:Gee how would I know the difference between this and being hyperactive ADD . I am hyper pretty much all the time





5. When depressed, symptoms are "atypical": extremely low energy and activity; excessive sleep (e.g. more than 10 hours a day); mood is highly reactive to the actions and actions of others; and (the weakest such sign) appetite is more likely to be increased than decreased. Some experts think that carbohydrate craving and night eating are variants of this appetite effect.

I can sleep more than 10 hours a day but it is rare, low energy can happen but only on occasions. My "bla" moods coincide with my monthly female cycle. Only those associated with my female cycle effect my energy level other wise I am energetic with a real negative out look on life.

According to my doctor my Depression causes irritability because it is combined with hyperactive ADD.

I am eating chips at 3:42 am when I need to go to sleep so I can go to work before 12 noon. I am always hungrier at night than I am during the day.
:rolleyes:





6. Episodes of major depression are brief, e.g. less than 3 months.

They are normally less than a four days, normally only lasting a day or two






7. The patient has had psychosis (loss of contact with reality) during an episode of depression.

No not that I know of. Then again would I notice? If I noticed would I remember?????

I think I am getting a head ache.






8. The patient has had severe depression after giving birth to a child ("postpartum depression").


I did have postpartum depression with both births but I do not remember them being particularly bad. I DID have major depressive episodes while pregnant both hospitalizations due to "depressive acts" were during my pregnancies but before I knew I was pregnant.

Does that count?

Nothing about me works the way it should. I think it is the dyslexia.






9. The patient has had hypomania or mania while taking an antidepressant (remember, severe irritability, difficulty sleeping, and agitation may -- but do not always -- qualify for "hypomania").


Again how would I know? I am HYPERACTIVE ANY WAY!! Aggg

Antidepressants have caused me major prolong period of insomnia three times {that I can remember} causing me to have to stop their use. Then there is my recent experience with the 5-HTP.






10. The patient has had loss of response to an antidepressant (sometimes called "Prozac Poop-out"): it worked well for a while then the depression symptoms came back, usually within a few months.

I have never responded well to antidepressants and I have been tried on all classes of antidepressants. Any thing that screws with my seratonin is NOT a good thing.






11. Three or more antidepressants have been tried, and none worked.

Please see answer above. . . .NONE have worked EVER! I have been tried on all available classes and then some


OKay and this means????? I am weird and my life is a combination of dyslexic and ADD and I am "almost bipolar? I guess that is better than being almost a lot of other things. I could be almost retarded or almost human. . . !!!!!

Sense I do not have any thing but a menstrual cycle does this mean I need training wheels? Can I just bounce along for the ride?

I think I need to bounce my butt in bed and pray I can sleep and if I can then I need to pray for some rain so I can justify sleeping till noon on a work day.

Crazy~Feet
09-04-07, 11:55 AM
Ummmmmmmmm.



Ahhhhhhhhh.


OK let's just take me, shall we? :D

1. The patient has had repeated episodes of major depression (four or more).

Yes, definitely. My DX is of course BPII. The criteria of course vary for the different/less severe forms of BP:

http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_publications_rapidcyclin g

Are there different types of bipolar disorder?
Physicians and researchers agree there are several kinds of bipolar disorder. Most people who have the illness experience episodes of mania and periods of depression, but the length, frequency, and pattern of these highs and lows vary. Sometimes individuals with bipolar disorder experience frequent mixed states. Some of the different combinations of symptoms may not be medically significant, while others are important enough to be classified as specific types of bipolar disorder that may be treated in very different ways.

http://www.biologicalunhappiness.com/DSMcyclo.htm

DSM IV Criteria Cyclothymic Disorder


A) For at least 2 years, the presence of numerous periods with hypomanic symptoms and numerous periods with depressive symptoms that do not meet criteria for a Major Depressive Episode. Note: In children and adolescents, the duration must be at least 1 year.

B) During the above 2-year period (1 year in children and adolescents), the person has not been without the symptoms in Criterion A for more than 2 months at a time.

C) No Major Depressive Episode, Manic Episode, or Mixed Episode has been present during the first 2 years of the disturbance

Note: After the initial 2 years (1 year in children and adolescents) of Cyclothymic Disorder, there may be superimposed Manic or Mixed Episodes (in which case both Bipolar I disorder and Cyclothymic Disorder may be diagnosed) or Major Depressive Episodes (in which case both Bipolar II Disorder and Cyclothymic Disorder may be diagnosed)

Cyclothmia is just an example here. There is also a NOS form.


2. The first episode of major depression occurred before age 25 (some experts say before age 20, a few before age 18; most likely, the younger you were at the first episode, the more it is that bipolar disorder, not "unipolar", was the basis for that episode).



I was 21.

3. A first-degree relative (mother/father, brother/sister, daughter/son) has a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.

One THAT I KNOW OF, my daughter, Space. I have strong suspicions regarding Missing and my mother.

4. When not depressed, mood and energy are a bit higher than average, all the time ("hyperthymic personality").

Heck no! I'm a slug. I did have periods of high energy before diagnosis...I thought these were blessed periods during which I was in a "great mood".

5. When depressed, symptoms are "atypical": extremely low energy and activity; excessive sleep (e.g. more than 10 hours a day); mood is highly reactive to the actions and actions of others; and (the weakest such sign) appetite is more likely to be increased than decreased. Some experts think that carbohydrate craving and night eating are variants of this appetite effect.

Low energy: for sure...but is it ADHD PI or depression? :eyebrow: Excessive sleep, yup, but not all the time. Reactive mood...sometimes. Other times I could care less what anybody else does because I am too gripped by the depressive mood, like Michelle. Carb cravings, terrible ones and oddly? They have backed off so much as to be non-existant now that I am medicated for BPII. Weird!

6. Episodes of major depression are brief, e.g. less than 3 months.

Yep. Sometimes they only last a few days....


7. The patient has had psychosis (loss of contact with reality) during an episode of depression.

Don't panic just yet! This is specific to BPI ONLY. As far as I know anyway. And I think the same thing you do: If I had, how would I have known it anyway? If I actually noticed, would I remember??

8. The patient has had severe depression after giving birth to a child ("postpartum depression")

Yes, definitely. Of course I was generally depressed and weepy and miserable when I was pregnant, all four times...but isn't that normal and hormonally induced? Heck I dunno...


9. The patient has had hypomania or mania while taking an antidepressant (remember, severe irritability, difficulty sleeping, and agitation may -- but do not always -- qualify for "hypomania").

According to this criteria, than absolutely. I took stupid SSRIs for all but 20 years, so how would I remember anything different than an existence like that, either? I always thought that the spiffy active times were "good moods" and sort of wondered why I would still get depressed anyway, but I would promptly forget to say or do anything about that. Curse you, ADHD, foiled again!!


10. The patient has had loss of response to an antidepressant (sometimes called "Prozac Poop-out"): it worked well for a while then the depression symptoms came back, usually within a few months.

Well sure...but if I remembered to mention this was a completely different story.

Have I ever mentioned that my ADHD is considered really severe, by any chance? :eyebrow:



11. Three or more antidepressants have been tried, and none worked.

At one time, I had tried every SSRI known to mankind, plus several other classifications. And with every one, I eventually took a nice drive through the countryside, on a beautiful day....and chucked the bottle out the window. Little routine I had....


Interesting to note that people with either condition {but especially with both} are poor self observers. . . . or tend to be any way. The major difference being with ADD I know my reality is probably skewed but I do not know how to be any thing but ADD but the manic thing was a totally different twist on reality that was unpleasant for people who have never even met me in person and even caught the attention of my husband {who basically doesnít normally have a detectable attention span }
Huh? Did you say something? What was I doing again? Oh yea! I was typing a reply :o whoopsie! Stupid illness, perfectly useless to bother taking dex when your head stomach are FUBAR to begin with, so feel free to ignore the rantings of an unmedicated and spaced-to-the-max PI...have you seen my pen?

What ever happened to my occasional good moods by the way...have you seen them too? Geez I was funny to be around then, I was so amusing and talkative.

Of course I talked a little fast....

Hmmm I am wondering if some one truly has ADD then they would not understand structure if it came at them with a whip and a chair. . . I know I am married to Mr I ainít got no ADD bounce bounce bounce. . .. .
Tell me more about this structure thing...sounds interesting! And I will swap you straight-up Mr Bouncy for Mr Duhhhhhhhh, just for a week....:faint: "I ain't got no ADD....where the HELL did I put that extremely important voucher for work?? Looks like another $300 down the tubes, honey."


My perception of really made sense then although it doesnít now. . according to Gary I was more irritable but every thing with me tends to cause irritability. Depression causes irritability pain causes irritability, annoyance causes irritability, my dyslexia can be irritating Several antidepressants and certain benzodiasepames like valium cause irritability. I am pleasantly hyper active but any thing that interferes with pleasant quickly become unpleasant. So far the only thing that interferes with hyperactive is age. . . .
Irritable? MOI? Not really. I am just conducting a lot of experiments!

Did you know that if you yank the water purifier off the faucet because it will not stop leaking, and slam it into the trash can, it can shatter? :D

justhope
09-04-07, 02:31 PM
I wanna play?

Can we start a thread...with all this stuff..(the criteria) then have everyone add stuff...kinda like we did in Jesse's thread..when you "modified it" to tell us your story...hmm interesting to see how all of our lives were? Responses, meds...etc...


My sister tries to save the world and every one {two to four legged} in it at times. She is closer to bossy than to cruel Then there was the depression because she couldnít save the world. . ..

(Aww,..just call me Super Co-dependant Idiot Girl My new superhero name...I am not bossy...take that back..right now LOL)

(Tam's descriptive answers to these my brow crease fixed in that "things" that make you go hmmmmmmm, very interesting)





1. The patient has had repeated episodes of major depression (four or more).
Does not getting out of bed for an entire weekend...except to go to the bathroom and eat, count? 16-18 hours straight of sleep, despondant, and exhausted? hmm yep. This onset...started late teens...I thought it was because I was hung over....oops



2. The first episode of major depression occurred before age 25 (some experts say before age 20, a few before age 18; most likely, the younger you were at the first episode, the more it is that bipolar disorder, not "unipolar", was the basis for that episode).

I did say late teens? about 16 or so? yipes!




3. A first-degree relative (mother/father, brother/sister, daughter/son) has a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.



My sister stole my answer...:eyebrow: (oh yea..and my son has it, childhood early onset BPII)

4. When not depressed, mood and energy are a bit higher than average, all the time ("hyperthymic personality").
I am zero to 60 myself. Not much inbetween.


5. When depressed, symptoms are "atypical": extremely low energy and activity; excessive sleep (e.g. more than 10 hours a day); mood is highly reactive to the actions and actions of others; and (the weakest such sign) appetite is more likely to be increased than decreased. Some experts think that carbohydrate craving and night eating are variants of this appetite effect.
Ok I have learned something new (Tam's hey I think you hit it right on the head about BP's and metabolism..how about the hormone thing? hmm)
Ok yes...I have struggled with weight since I had kids. Average 10-30lbs over.
I love carbs period...so much so that I can't keep "snacks" in my house for my self of kids...I sit and eat it all day long) I noticed that once I started back on my Adderall, the 'mild loss' of appetite was mostly for "junk" Which improved more on the Lamictal. Only time I really crave it , is off stims or that time of the month......
I answered the sleep thing above...14 hours..on bad days is not enough. I go home from work...take a "nap" 6pm and sleep until 6am the next day...


6. Episodes of major depression are brief, e.g. less than 3 months.
How about less than a week? I think I have experience them for the longest about a month. It was mostly anger/anxiety/aggitation...and the whole sleepy thing And that was with major stressors.


7. The patient has had psychosis (loss of contact with reality) during an episode of depression.
Um I don't think so? Only wiht the PMDD...bc meds? If I had a phychosis ..I am pretty sure there are people I work and live with, whom's bodies they would still be looking for...(disclosure: this is a joke...seriously...that is my story and I'm stickin to it..LOL )


8. The patient has had severe depression after giving birth to a child ("postpartum depression").
My first one, nope
My second one...OMG it was horrible and lasted for about 3 months..when I went back to work...after 8 weeks..I lasted 2weeks and quit...3rd one..normal depression..mostly because I realized I had 3 kids?????


9. The patient has had hypomania or mania while taking an antidepressant (remember, severe irritability, difficulty sleeping, and agitation may -- but do not always -- qualify for "hypomania").
I did this on wellbutrin? Does that count?


10. The patient has had loss of response to an antidepressant (sometimes called "Prozac Poop-out"): it worked well for a while then the depression symptoms came back, usually within a few months.
Couldn't take them long enough to find out? The 3 I have taken all made me nutso or do the thorazine shuffle!

11. Three or more antidepressants have been tried, and none worked.
Um I think I just said that above sort of!

DSM IV Criteria Cyclothymic Disorder
This was my initial diagnoses....which he wrote on a paper with a slash on it BPII....
I really met these at a younger age...I think the more BPII came out after my 30's....


Ok who's next? I'm not only bossy...and a martyr attempting to save the world...I am nosey!!!!! :D


Hope :p

Sky81
09-04-07, 05:02 PM
1. The patient has had repeated episodes of major depression (four or more).

Yeah if you count my "funks" as depression then i've had about ten or so...they last a few months usually.....the last few have gotten pretty scary....


2. The first episode of major depression occurred before age 25 (some experts say before age 20, a few before age 18; most likely, the younger you were at the first episode, the more it is that bipolar disorder, not "unipolar", was the basis for that episode).

I was 11 years old and had a suicide plan, and a back up plan if that didn't work.....only to wake up one day with a strange feeling of euphoria......hmmm....


3. A first-degree relative (mother/father, brother/sister, daughter/son) has a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.

My father was in an out of institutions in his teens and twenties and given a diagnosis of schizophrenia. My uncle and grandfather on my father's side both commited suicide...... We're not sure what he has and neither is he, but he is certaintly not "normal" by any means.....My little sister is BPI and was diagnosed four years ago when she was 19 after a manic state psychosis.



4. When not depressed, mood and energy are a bit higher than average, all the time ("hyperthymic personality").

You mean it's not normal to take 25 credits a semester, work three jobs, and still have time and energy to get plastered a few times a week with your friends?????.......and that thing about sleeping every night....I thought sleep was optional and only necessecary a couple times a week......


5. When depressed, symptoms are "atypical": extremely low energy and activity; excessive sleep (e.g. more than 10 hours a day); mood is highly reactive to the actions and actions of others; and (the weakest such sign) appetite is more likely to be increased than decreased. Some experts think that carbohydrate craving and night eating are variants of this appetite effect.

So atypical that it took me almost fifteen years to realize that my depressive episodes were called depression.....I had a name for them...my "funks."

My funks were periods of extrememly low energy (sleeping 12-16 hours a day)...and a period of numbness.....which eventually would turn into extreme irritability, aggervation, frustration and at times, hostility....and yeah I would want to eat to make me feel better....like sugar and chocolate.......that would be when I had enough energy to get up and actually eat something.....

I didn't know this was depression. I though depressed people were sad and cried alot.....when I'm in a funk there is no sadness and no crying.....


6. Episodes of major depression are brief, e.g. less than 3 months.

They usually last more then a month and sometimes as along as three months.....



7. The patient has had psychosis (loss of contact with reality) during an episode of depression.

Yup, complete with voices in my head......my pdoc says it was a mixed episode.........


8. The patient has had severe depression after giving birth to a child ("postpartum depression").

Can't say I haven't had kids....and I don't thinkI want to so I might not ever find out......


9. The patient has had hypomania or mania while taking an antidepressant (remember, severe irritability, difficulty sleeping, and agitation may -- but do not always -- qualify for "hypomania").


I took 10mg of Lexapro for about ten days, and I was on another planet.....


10. The patient has had loss of response to an antidepressant (sometimes called "Prozac Poop-out"): it worked well for a while then the depression symptoms came back, usually within a few months.

The only one I ever tried made me manic in less then two weeks......


11. Three or more antidepressants have been tried, and none worked.

Refer to the answer above. . .I don't have much experience with antidepressants...... but I know how to make myself manic now.....

I'm amazed it took me so long to realize something wasn't right......

meadd823
09-16-07, 03:06 AM
Aww,..just call me Super Co-dependant Idiot Girl My new superhero name...I am not bossy...take that back..right now LOL)

(Tam's descriptive answers to these my brow crease fixed in that "things" that make you go hmmmmmmm, very interesting]

I wasn't trying to be insulting :( but I can understand if it sounds as such. Apologies sis


You aren't cruel, I have never seen you do purposeful things to hurt people {or animals} nor have I known you to be verbally cruel unless first provoked. The not so gentle art of verbal self defense is a family trait as even the non bi-polar members tend to do much the same. I do not know if it genetic or simply fast and effective.


You do try to save the world always dragging home stray animals as a child and once older it became stray kids. I always figured it was due to all the "strays" that the "closer to bossy" was necessary to prevent one from being over run by them.


You were never bossy with me but but then again would I have noticed. :confused: I am too ADD to notice my own anxiety and that is ON medications. :o One would have to have my attention for longer than ten seconds and my presence for longer then thirty. I tend to wander off shortly after my mind does. . . .mostly in an effort to locate missing mind.