Hi all

Here I am late at night worried again....Why??

Well autumns here and with it my usual change of employment back to construction/renewables self employment.

Got a small renewables job passed to me by an acquaintance, simple on the surface, but a long drive away.... I accepted it and arranged to go up to give the advice the client needed....but as usual on the phone I undersold myself and quoted half what I should have done for the assessment....after all it sounded a fun jaunt and it sounded like it might come off (so many don't in the renewables sector).

Did the advice, little out of my depth as its the fist time I've installed this kit but the old ADD hyperfocus helps in dredging up nuggets of info to get me out of tight spots.

I had to write a report for which I'd quoted half a day...and I've just finished it 5 procrastinatory, distracted days later.

Of course being anxious to do a good job I discovered the technical data given me by my acquaintance was optimistic......so the original product I was there to look at installing will need more detailed survey work and quite complex fluid dynamics calcs to make it fit...and everything will need to be bigger and more expensive.....plus the original rough price my acquaintance gave the client relied on my acquaintance's habit of roping in unpaid students and friends to help doing "fun green environmental" projects which I never do as I could never ask people to work for nothing on a job I was beng paid for...I just couldn't look them in the eye.

So now I've spent 5 days worrying and rechecking my calcs, trying to work out how to price the job and no matter how I look at it the figures look horrendous. I finally steeled myself to hit send an hour ago and now I'm regretting it, wondering if I've quoted way too high and will loose the job....which I sort of need...for the experience and the money.

I know whenever I work directly for clients I always get so anxious and scared I put way too much time and effort into the job and charge way too little because I hate asking for more money to cover the extras...besides which my admin is so appalling I lose invoices from suppliers and forget how much time I've spent on things....and the thought of being challenged by the client on an invoice or the quality of the job makes me feel sick.

I'm just so stressed out...I'm good at this stuff, I know my facts but I just stuff myself both ways...if I don't get the job I'll feel stressed and down and if do get it I'll be stressed as hell and probably won't make much if anything on it because I'll do too much take too long, oversize things "just to make sure", agonise over leaving a good finish and generally procrastinate.

If I work for a boss I end up frustrated and blowing a gasket....if I work for myself I'm stressed to hell and broke.

letting off steam

kilt

I work for myself as well - totally different area (e-commerce) but I sure understand your stressors. Isn't it funny that for us it's all about doing the best job we can and making people happy - and we forget that we're supposed to be making money. I don't like to look at the finances too closely because I'm afraid to see that I work far too much for far too little. But I love my work and would hate to go back to work for someone else.

I'm just not motivated by money, that's all - and I would never want to stop doing things right and treating people well for the sake of money. But still, we do sell ourselves short. We need money to get by and to continue doing what were doing. I had to find a happy medium. I came up with a percentage of profit that I'm comfortable with and use a formula to add that amount to every price. I choose to have a low profit margin, so I can still offer a better deal than others and yet I'm certain that it's fair. But this insures that I'm also making something.

Overpromise, underdeliver = typical ADD in some ways.

(Or in your case, you likely overdeliver, but then suffer YOURSELF b/c of your underquoting for the job.)

Perhaps in your contracts for the future, you could put in a written clause about reserving the right to charge up to 10% more, should the task bloom.

Wow I see a patern thought it was just me. Its the quoting bit that stresses me out beeing self employed you have to consider so many more things. I'm a graphic designer and I love to design and be creative so for me doing work is as good as beeing on holiday sometimes which is why when i think of charging people I feel soooo stressed. Making sure I give a right price and outline all the requirements of the job realistically. I've been meaning to send this quote for 3 days now and still don't feel like its ready or pprofessional enough. arghh!

I find being self employed both freeing and stressful at the same time - I feel more under the gun because my pay doesn't come from some big cooperation like clock work - no production no pay period. A lot more rides on our ability to manage and produce than it does when we are working for some one else - I also believe when we work for our selves we have to wear more hats so to speak we have to deal with thing like pay role larger companies do for us when we are employed

For me I take my work more personally than I did before although nursing is also a personal business because of it's very nature. I guess the bottom line id if I decided I didn't like a company or boss I could always leave that company and find another one where as working for me well it is rather difficult to quit me and move one to being some one else - and I find I feel more responsible for problems and stress when crap doesn't go right because well there is no one else to blame really but me.

Starvation is also a pretty high price to pay for failure which also seems to loom larger and much closer now - frankly I have never felt more stressed out but I have never felt so alive either - I do not have to punch a time clock I do not have to play this game of life the NTer way - I play this game called employment using more of my own rules - ohh write rules damn I knew I forgot some thing - my weak areas seem to have more impact on me but my abilities also have more of an effect as well - as it is now I would not have it any other way -


So now I've spent 5 days worrying and rechecking my calcs, trying to work out how to price the job and no matter how I look at it the figures look horrendous


When I look at diesel prices I see the same horrendous figure as a result materials go up - because cabs and public transpiration have a problem hauling large loads of containers and shipping supplies we run rather large vehicles

Gary and I work for ourselves or each other sort of - he does one part and I do another - we recycle - stuff like just about any thing one place throws away that can be sold by Gary to another and fixed by me in between - do you have a clue as to what your competition charges and their behaviors for stuff like scheduling contracts ect. . .

We have low over head so we can under cut larger companies - we also do not expect customers to sign a contract of expectation - many of the larger companies will give them a good price if they agree to buy so much over a certain period of time - knowledge like this allows us to know who are target customers are.

People like Dale computer do not mind signing a contract because they do huge inventory turn around and are likely to need thing in large amounts so they are not a target customer for us - however smaller companies who do need pallets and containers to ship on buy smaller quantities and do not necessarily want to sign a promissory contract because fluctuations in demands impact them more acutely in the wallet area - small to mid-sized companies are normally our target customers - knowing our limitation keeps us from biting off more than we can chew -

Then you have the adjustments that throw every thing into imbalance - we added a sub-contractor oh about a year ago now - it was during this adjustment that Gary needed the most help in interactive skills and tolerance - allowing me to help him on his end allowed this union of sorts to go off much better than it did the last time these two men tried to pool together resources -

My point


Sitting and considering some of these "little" things that may have escaped you may help - little things you have not yet considered. I know you are married and even if your wife doesn't know squat about your profession she may be able to help in life skill areas like time management, system set ups, sources allocations ect

she may know of some of your habits that are problematic and be able to see things from a different view if you really are willing to listen and take her input as information only - I didn't know thing one about the recycling business when Gary and I first got together. I was still nursing but I did know what a man chasing his tail looked like - I knew Gary and the areas that were causing him the most problem were painfully obvious to me but illusive to him - the reverse holds true for me even though we are both ADD - he is my motivator. . . . and one man physical exercise program.

Gary knows his recycling and he can sale sand in a dessert but he can't manage his way out of a sack - I managed very well despite my ADD - I see globally and objectively. However the big thing with Gary was getting the emotional pride out of the way so we could get down to business - our behaviors and habits are personal to us and when some one challenges them it can feel like an attack - I have learned this in management but when it comes to me and business I have only one goal - efficiency and cohesion - there is no emotional motive and it took a while for Gary to snap to this - we are partners but I am taking on more and more of the management of his time as well as my own - hopefully to improve Gary and the sub-contractor's efficiency soon - it takes time for people to trust me and I accept this as part of the territory of what I do.



Gary had to dig himself out of a few self made disasters and he did lose a couple of customers before he became willing to drop the pride crap so I could do what I was gifted in - my abilities off set his abilities really well - I can manage like no one business and oddly enough system set ups are a knack for me - give me half a dozen people's work patterns for a week and I can have them moving in sync with only simply modification to their natural behavior. However I couldn't sale a drowning man a life preserver for half price and trash well looks like trash to me - Gary tries to teach me but I simply do not comprehend "valuable trash" if it is valuable isn't it non-trash . . . . so I do not compete with Gary I compliment him and that ability was there long before we decided to work together and is the reason we choose to do so.

I escaped the NTer world and he escapes the pit of his own confusion. The moral of this story - some time assistance is right before you in the places you least expect it - but you have to be willing to by pass emotional reactions and ego issues - starvation must be king here and that is what we face if we fail is it not? People do not have to know of your business necessarily they just have to give a damn, be trustworthy and have a different perspective.

From one self employed person to another - just some thoughts that may or may not be useful - it is buffet style take what you can use leave the rest right where it sits - {Gary's tool management system - drives me nuts}

Crap this post got out of hand -oops sorry about that. I guess I had more to say than I thought. . . .

Thanks for the post meadd.

I suppose an update is in order.....I've kinda fallen off the edge of the world workwise and haven't done any paid work since November. The client obviously had a loose bowel moment when I submitted my costings and hasn't been back in touch. I costed it all out as accurately as I could and when I posted it I had a feeling I'd made a rod for my own back....so maybe it's for the best it didn't come off.

The anxiety appears to be getting worse despite the Concerta and counsellingand is seriously messing with my ability to do anything.


kilt

I do understand kilt, I do! Anxiety is a issue for me as well. Tough when you can't pay the bills, and don't have a job. I find myself on this forum, way more than I should. I know its a lot tougher for you as well....since you have a family and people to support.

The anxiety appears to be getting worse despite the Concerta and counsellingand is seriously messing with my ability to do anything.



Does the anxiety subside when the medication wears off - or is it less problematics when you take a medication holiday {should this be an option okay with your doctor} some times ADD medications can exacerbate anxiety - just another one of those random thoughts. At least this one is shorter than the last.