I'm mom to a youngster who has been diagnosed OCD+ADHD+PDD and ODD. Since reading here I see several talk about a kind of focus, sometimes toward a darker side, that seems to relate to ADD for some.

I'm asking because the doctor is more interested in treating the OCD (currently with prozac) than the ADD (currently unmedicated)at this point. After reading all I can find on children and OCD, I don't think thats what my son has...I'd consider it more of an ADD focus - not on the dark side, just on whatever crosses his mind and gets "stuck". Are the ADD focus some write about and OCD the same?

By the way, there are no rituals that I recognize as such, and I see no difference on the prozac other than a very slight smoothing out of emotions.

Cindy

I'd consider it more of an ADD focus - not on the dark side, just on whatever crosses his mind and gets "stuck". Are the ADD focus some write about and OCD the same?


ADD can mix with a variety of other conditions to make life even more fun other conditions can mimic ADD. ADD is the being unable to consciously control the attention span. We can not control what we focus on or for how long. Some people have periods of hyper focus, however often the subject of our hyperfocus changes.

OCD can co-occure and PPD can momic ADD. I am gathering by the doctor's proirity he is worried about PPD (http://www.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/autism/pddinfo.html) which would be closer to OCD in my opinion.

How long has your kidlet been on Prozac? It can take 4-6 weeks for the full effect to kick in.

My 7 yr-old is on 10 mg Prozac for OCD/anxiety also. He's a hairpuller (trichotillomania) and it really kicks in when he's stressed. But he's also taking an ADD med (Vyvanse). He only started the 'zac on Friday so we haven't seen any change so far.

Are the ADD focus some write about and OCD the same?


I am gathering this is your main question which is why the thread was placed in this area of the forums?

Needing a clarification to make sure I understand the question correctly - noticed a secondary possibility to the meaning of the initial post.

The obsessive thinking of OCD is not the same as the hyperfocus of ADHD. OCD is all about anxiety coupled with a compulsion to act on an obsession. Being obsessively overfocused due to OCD usually means there is a lot of anxiety around it. It can be tough to deal with for some people.

Conversely, the hyperfocus of ADHD is more like a very deep, fine-grained level of attention to some thing or another. Many ADDers report that they enjoy being hyperfocused.


Me :D


I'm mom to a youngster who has been diagnosed OCD+ADHD+PDD and ODD. Since reading here I see several talk about a kind of focus, sometimes toward a darker side, that seems to relate to ADD for some.

I'm asking because the doctor is more interested in treating the OCD (currently with prozac) than the ADD (currently unmedicated)at this point. After reading all I can find on children and OCD, I don't think thats what my son has...I'd consider it more of an ADD focus - not on the dark side, just on whatever crosses his mind and gets "stuck". Are the ADD focus some write about and OCD the same?

By the way, there are no rituals that I recognize as such, and I see no difference on the prozac other than a very slight smoothing out of emotions.

Cindy

i get really confused in this as my son has ADHD but he also displays alot of OCD mainly relating to his clothes he is wearing, they have to be certain lenghth or certain feel etc, hes on ritolin for the ADHD but nothing for the OCD behaviour, hes only 8 yrs old but has been very perticular about his clothes for ever, he gets certain clothes he gets obsessed with and has to wear all the time, like bowties or waist jackets or blazers!! all very posh!! but it does make him stand out! and not really school uniform althou the school have been very excepting!, my question is i always thought the ritolin would help this, but is there a different medicine he should take for the OCD as well? be very grateful for any ideas and comments.x

OCD is an anxiety disorder and stimulants can very often exacerbate anxiety disorders. In some cases it becomes necessary to treat the anxiety disorder along with the adhd with an add-on medication.

ME :D

thankyou!! i just get so confused with it all and really do appreciate any advice.x

From what I've read, about 30% of ADDers also have a bit of OCD thrown in the mix. That's not all bad -- ADDers with OCD seldom have conduct disorder -- the heightened anxiety keeps some impulsivity a bit more in check. The OCD can also help them hyperfocus on areas of interest which can be helpful in school subjects or work in which they have a real interest. My psychologist explained to me that that was why I was able to get such good grades in my college and master's programs -- I had narrowed down my area of interest and had the ability to hyperfocus.

The bad part of course is that living with any kind of anxiety disorder isn't a lot of fun. My daughter has recently started pulling out her hair (tricotillomania) which is somewhere between OCD and Tourettes on the anxiety spectrum.

Prozac hasn't been shown to be more effective than placebo for kids with depression. I don't know about it's effectiveness for kids with OCD. I do know that behavioral approaches have been shown on PET brain scans to make the same kids of differences in the brains of adult OCDers that medication makes for OCD. You might check out Jeffrey Schwartz's book Brain Lock. He has a four step program for addressing ADD that has solid research to back it up.

I can answer simply, OCD is not the same thing as hyperfocus. In your shoes, I would ask the doctor what behaviors of your son, that he/she see's as OCD related. Without seeing your son (and talking to him), I would have no idea if he has either. Are you comfortable with your sons psychiatrist? If not, seek one you are comfortable with.

Just my two cents.

At Heart

You might check out Jeffrey Schwartz's book Brain Lock. He has a four step program for addressing ADD that has solid research to back it up.Did you mean "addressing OCD"? (not ADD)

I have both and the OCD part is only 2 hours in the morning now, but it's more of an issue of obsessions coming into my mind and the actions I take on it, hyperfocus can at times even supercede the OCD, given it's a "Priority" and I lose sleep over it, it feels like an obsession in a way but I want it and the obsessive thoughts I want to go away if that makes any sense

You have hit on a key difference. With adhd hyperfocus you probably don't care if you hyperfocus, or maybe even like it. With obsessive thoughts, you want them to stop and there is anxiety that keeps the thoughts stuck in your head. It's kind of like getting a song that you hate stuck in your head, but worse.

ME :D

Yeah like britney spears or something, not to get off topic but I get the most obscure songs stuck in my head

I had "SO LONG AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH" stuck in my head for a week. Songs get stuck ihn my head for days at a time.

Me :D

get really confused in this as my son has ADHD but he also displays alot of OCD mainly relating to his clothes he is wearing, they have to be certain lenghth or certain feel etc, hes on ritolin for the ADHD but nothing for the OCD behaviour, hes only 8 yrs old but has been very perticular about his clothes for ever, he gets certain clothes he gets obsessed with and has to wear all the time, like bowties or waist jackets or blazers!!

I do not understand the styles thing per say but for many ADDers clothes do have to have a certain "feel" or more accurately NOT be distracting. I can not stand tags in my clothes and the material can't have a rough texture. My socks have to have even elastic or they drive me nuts. I am about as far away from OCD as one can get. The feel of things like clothing and sock elastic are things that can be distracting and frankly annoying if the feel isn't "right".

Let us be respectful of the member who wrote the initial post by staying on topic please.

perhaps giving you an example of what my son does you can comment on if you see hyperfocus or OCD.

It's like he gets "stuck" on a thought and can't let it go, even over the long term.... Today, for example, he wanted a make-up compact with a mirror in it so he could wash out the make-up and make some type of "project" out of the mirror and case. I keep saying no and he says "BUT Mooom, I NEED it." He probably asked 10 times throughout the day. He may forget about it tomorrow, but we'll probably revisit the issue, "stuck" like this again 3 or 4 more times over the next month. Then it will be forgotten for a month or 2, and then start again. In the meantime he'll get "stuck" on something else, like wanting to use a magic marker to color on some baseball gloves. (We saw that one start 2-3 months ago, and hadn't heard it for a month, but it started back again earlier in the week.) It's like he "rotates" through "stuck items" adding one here or there and dropping others.

By the way, he's on prozac for 6 weeks now, and we just doubled it Tuesday. But the "stuck" was like this before too. He's also on risperdal that does seem to take away his aggression.

Thank you all so much for the thoughts thus far... Your posts here in other places have allowed me to learn so much I feel confident in advocating for my little different thinker. It does seem there is so much fine line/overlap. I just want to "treat" the right thing.

Cindy

It does seem there is so much fine line/overlap. I just want to "treat" the right thing.

Oh gosh I do understand. As a parent myself I do not blame you.

One of my daughters was like this, she stood out side our bedroom door one morning and asked if she could use her crayons no less than 15 minutes. She repeated teh question over and over and over . . . . .She would hyperfocus on some thing for a while but once she let go she would not revisit it unless she got a visual reminder. Like in your example of the compact she wouldn't just arbitrarily bring up the compact again but if she saw it again - then it would trigger her memory and away she would go all over again.

Are the focus of his obsession connected?

I will obsess about mistakes I have made at times especially socially but once they are dropped then I rarely revisit them without first having the memory triggered and even if it is triggered the intensity is not nearly as strong the second time around.

I do look forward to other member's responses as they may be very different than I am.

Giving us an example was a very good idea.

I had to think about this one a couple of days, because I actually do both; the ADHD hyperfocus and the OCD obsessive thoughts. For me, they are quite different, separate, distinct, no overlap.

With the ADHD hyperfocus, I can sit for hours on a project, or at work, or anything else I am driven to do, until it is finished; it is definitely task or goal oriented fixataions for the most part. I get into a "zone." I can still think about other things though, while in the hyperfocus zone.

With the OCD, my focus is is charged from emotions such as fear, worry, other anxieties, and these can at times take over all other thoughts and be very difficult to stop or distract away from until it is resolved.

OCD is an obsession coupled with a compulsion to act on that obsession. Anxiety couples to two together such that anxiety motivates you to act on the obsession and acting on it brings temporary relief from the anxiety. Obsessive thoughts are the key. People with OCD spend a lot of time worried about the details and they can't get it out of their heads until the situation is resolved in just exactly the right way.

Sometimes strong, worrysome thoughts can get stuck in your head. On one occasion I had decided that I was going to cut a piece of paper with a pair of scissors. At some point it occured to me that I might just accidentally cut my finger with the scissors. I knew better, but the thought of cutting my finger became so vivid that I literally cringed. There was a lot of anxiety and I spent the next half hour or so struggling with myself, trying to get the thought out of my mind. Needless to say I gave up on cutting the paper. Through the whole thing I never even picked up the scissors to actually cut the paper. This is what OCD is like.

I'll say it again. It's a lot like getting a song stuck in your head. It just keeps on going and you wish it would just go away. The fact that it is bothersome and against your wishes makes for a lot of anxiety and it can be downrigt frustrating.

You are not always aware of your ocd when you have it. I sometimes catch my self absent-mindedly checking things repeatedly. Usually , when I stay self aware of it I can get things under control and it does not happen so much.

When I was a kid (about 6 or 7 years old) I developed the habit of not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk.(a very OCD thing to do) In her usual wonderful style, my mother helped me through that by making a game of it. Myself, I was not very aware of the fact that it was an odd thing to do. I was more concerned about not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk. :p

I think that maybe a kid with OCD would have greater difficulty in cognating that their actions are due to OCD and that probably makes it more difficult for them to deal with it.

ME :D

Hi Mattsmom,

To me, the perseveration that your son has with the compact and the baseball glove is more an example of OCD than ADHD hyperfocus. Perseveration is a characteristic of most people with OCD (and other disorders such as PDD). How has your son done on the Prozac so far? What are the symptoms of ADHD that you want him to have treatment for? I know you mention that your Pdoc is willing to medicate him for what he see's as OCD, but not the ADHD. Has he been tested to determine how severe his ADHD might be?

Anyhow, I wish you luck. I think you will learn a lot here, that will help you to be a great advocate for your son.

At Heart

Prozac really hasn't done anything except very slightly smooth out emotions - almost made it like he cares less. We've treated the adhd in the past and had terrible results. Small doses of stimulants (including the "non" stimulant) make him unable to pull away from whatever activity he starts on (6 hours standing at the chaulkboard at home 1 attempt). Now that's what I call OCD.

His current OCD "jags" don't require a visual to set it off - it's just stuck in his brain like The Fish Song....(Thanks for that - now I can't get it out of my head and I don't have OCD).

Cindy

His current OCD "jags" don't require a visual to set it off - it's just stuck in his brain like The Fish Song....(Thanks for that - now I can't get it out of my head and I don't have OCD).

If his obsession isn't fulfilled does it cause him to be anxious. I think speedo has a very valid point. Hyper focusing is normally orientated toward a specific activity for a certain length of time and is done out of pleasure - like posting this instead of going to bed. I won't get anxious if I do not complete this post. Any annoyance I would feel would last a short time.

The hyper focus ends when I am finished with the project or post. I may hyper focus again but it will be on some thing completely different. If I get overly tired I will cease and desist to go to bed.

mattsmom I was thinking about this thread while getting ready for work. . .who{shrug} knows I have ADD

Maybe another approach to telling the difference is when your son is "hyper focusing" on some thing his reactions to being disturbed and the extent of an occurrence that would cause him to be distracted.

In other wards when I am writing post I get annoyed when my husband wants me to stop and look at some thing on TV. I get annoyed because when I am interrupted I will have an extremely hard time resuming the line of thought I was having before the interruption. Some times I can not even resume the activity because I can not get my attention to refocus. How ever if my husband was to drop a chain saw on his foot I would not even worry about what I was typing on a post.

I guess I am trying to say his perseverance may also give some indication as to weather or not you are seeing hyperfocus or OCD.

Other things to consider family history as many of these conditions run in families

Onset of symptoms

childs medical history - not just injuries but also illness.

These differences can be very difficult for seasoned professional to tease apart so patience with your son's mental health care provider maybe advisable.