I have a theory that for every disorder (or to a lesser extent neurosis), there is a "natural predator" who (a) can easily intuitively pick out folks who are vulnerable to that disorder, and (b) prey upon them. Being preyed upon can take the form of schoolyard bullying; the boss at work who is always on your tail and ultimately tries to run you out (but not before using you to accomplish something he or she needs); a spouse or s.o. that is psychologically or verbally abusive and uses your ADD weaknesses (memory, task management, etc. ) to keep you down; etc.

I have come across my natural predator several times over the course of my life, enough that I can now usually recognize the predator before they recognize me (but not always). Maybe there are multiple predators for ADD types, I am not sure.

Anyway, it occured to me that it would be interesting to try to profile the predator type(s) for ADD. If i am making any sense to anyone else, then please put down some descriptions of what your predator type is and lets see if there are commonalities. This is harder to do than it seems even if you have several examples in mind!

Here is what I have so far, please feel free to disagree or add:

Very outgoing, sporting types - backslappers.
Smart but not very smart but most have college degrees or MBAs. I would guess IQ no higher than 130 probably 120-130.
A relationship builder/networker.
Generally successfull.
Several are or were alcoholics (only know this by rumor)
Controlling

I agree, although they may not be aware of what you "have"... see this post as an example (click here) (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43835)

bullies who like to make a fool out of you

The only person that actually knows about me being diagnosed and treated is my Dr. and the all the other hospital people...Oh ya, and you guys Haha :p
I don't feel its anyones business to know. I don't want people to judge me bc thats all I've ever experienced growing up; always being compared to my straight "A" nerdy brother. I've always been a very secretive person... because I've always felt different no matter how normal I may look from the outside. People call me "mysterious". Not even my boyfriend (well, the X) knows.

To me... it just feels normal.
:)

I don't know about this..interesting concept though. I would think its more about those who can sense the weaknesses in anybody.

I've become alot more aware as I get older and can sense a controlling or aggressive individual fairly well.....better than many others. I am getting used to spotting their tricks, and they're often quite unsubtle. They're not directed at ADD weaknesses in particular and seem to aim at invading space and other strategies to discomfit the "opponent" and keep the psychological upper hand.

The "backslapper" is a case in point, the overt friendliness means one cannot "take offence" without breaking social codes and yet the individual has invaded one's space and forced one into a subordinate role quickly and efficiently.

The post referred to shows a constructive dismissal case building once the management becomes aware that an employee may have issues that are perceived by the management to make the individual more difficult to manage.

The predator type will not usually aim to remove or destroy an individual unless there is a direct benefit, they are more likely to want to ensure complete dominance over the individual.

kilt

I would think its more about those who can sense the weaknesses in anybody.

I agree with the idea that they seek weakness apart from actually diagnosis. I also believe there are various type of predictors/bullies which seek specific weakness or certain placements in the scheme of life. Example I have been attacked due to the position I have here - someone had a problem with females in a position of authority.

Unfortunately they picked the wrong female moderator who ran out of medication and takes only a certain amount of crap before hitting **tch mode which is built into the person behind the user name.

Bullies have only two weapons at their disposal - penetrate those and they are helpless. . . .

Deflection - an attempt to make it appear as if the problem is you

Distortion - accusations that it is all in your head.


In a conflict most misunderstood individuals who may appear to be pushy will attempt to try to understand your point of view and be willing to take at least some responsibility for the disagreement.

A bully will use the above two weapons in an effort to avoid personal responsibility.




Once I have made certain I am dealing with a bully I am relentless but my approach varys depending on my mood,possible entertainment value and how much time I have to screw with them.

The predator - seeks to exploit to his/her advantage caring nothing about the effect it has upon their prey.


How one chooses to handle the predator depends upon one's own personality, and type of predator involved. The type of ADD may have a baring upon how the predator is perceived and dealt with.

I know being hyperactive increases my attraction to risk taking behavior so engaging a bully or predator = "game time" . . . a switch flips on and some thing awakens within me , I am no longer the same person although I am capable of concealing the change. Unpaired predators have found out too late they were the prey = the darker side of my ADHD. I am enough like them to enjoy every minute of it.

Some ADDers have concealed predatory traits beneath our usual "ding-bat, lost in space" surfaces. Although I was harmless to the average Joe there was a time in my life where I sought the real stimulation. My "ding bat, lost in space" outward personality attracted predictors. Logically why look for the hunt when the hunt will come to you = some of us are the predators of predators {called pay back is a **tch} and yes ADHD can serve us very well.


Just a thought to consider. . . .

Psychopaths have a diverting way of communicating, it is as if they contradict themselves, they can meet criteria for a variety of mental illnesses including AD/HD. They however can easily be avoided. Showing them up, so to speak, and playing like you are one of "them", will make them uninterested, but predators tend to be Narcissistic, Histrionic and/or Borderline as well. It is all about some type of manipulation.

Chicago, I would be very interested in having you nip over to Co-Ex and post this very question in Bipolar at the very least. The theory of the illness/disorder predator is a fascinating one.

I cannot really add more to this thread than my colleagues have. :)

A couple of times I have come across individuals and groups who apparently actively seek out those in "need" or in pschycological distress and "move in" on them with much tea and sympathy, offering friendship and support and pushing out others who may also wish to help but do not have the time or relentless energy.

These predatory individuals eventually obtain a substantial psychological hold over the "victim" that makes it impossible for someone in a weak position to break free from as it involved rejecting what is purported to be "help". The recipient is labelled "ungrateful" cantankerous selfish etc if they try to regain/retain some independance.

Older people are often the victims of these individuals, which is where I have seen it most, though many cults operate in this way with younger people.

kilt

ay? tru bro? thaz intrstng as! so how do u not b a targt? wot if u do stupid stuf and an authorty (?) abuses u for it physcly emotnly. is tht th same?

The Original Post was certainly aimed at individual "predators" and I stretched it out to groups such as cults.

The question of whether "authority" could be classed as a predator on those with weaknesses is an interesting one.

It can be construed two ways

Firstly an individual or group using their authority to disadvantage a weak person or group and gain domination over them for gain or revenge. This does happen, for example where the disabled or disadvantaged are forced to negotiate for access to markets or resources through government appointed brokers or middlemen.

Secondly where a government actively marginalises and dominates a group through disinformation for political gain. THis could be said to have occurred with the last conservative government rhetoric about the fecklessness of all single parents. This reaches its nadir where the goverment becomes racist or xenophobic. Whether the current US administration could be accused of doing this is a moot point.

As far as authority picking on an individual, that is usually in the mind of the "abused". Most first world governments have fairly robust anti-discrimination laws safeguarding the mentally and physically disadvantaged, and minorities. Beyond that, what happens to the individual is usually circumstance and pot luck. This is not an active predatory behaviour, more neglect through beauraucracy.

In other words.....if you do stupid stuff.......don't expect special treatment from "authority"...but you might get lucky if a person in authority sees that you are trying to cope with a difficult situation.......or you might just as easily end up in front of a female magistrate with PMT.

Its all about people

kilt

As a non ADDer of a ADD husband and son with a daughter with ADD traits, I see the predators right away! I feel I need to "protect" them because they don't have the ability to see them until the "claws" come out. I find they all are so wanting "friends" and anyone who is "nice" to them they get "sucked into" and even led astray without seeing it until something happens. It is so hard when I "feel" these people around them. I sound like I probably don't like anyone they meet (most of the time I don't!) and then something will happen and my "feelings" were right!
I have seen them prey on their
good nature,
wanting to be included,
easy to anger or frustrate,
forgetfulness/memory (borrowing and saying they gave it back or just never give it back!)being the "scapegoat", for starters.

I'll tell you one species of predator that can smell an ADHD person a mile off...

the foot in the door/cold calling salesman

My dad's just fallen for it AGAIN.....

he's had..

A brand new kitchen replaced with a cheaper tackier one

"Secondary" double glazing put on rotten wooden windows

the "resealing" of a flat roof at vast expense

Signed up for a uPVC "conservatory" despite having the drawings and foundations done for a high quality one. The uPVC company insist that the 5 tons of reinforced concrete slab already poured is unsuitable for their form of construction and must be removed...and the only access is wheelbarrowing it through the house.

and now he's just agreed to transfer management of his financial affairs to a cold calling sharedealing service.

I could eat a door.

kilt

WTF is an ADHD Predator?

I'm a bit more than familiar with Forensic Assessment [which examines things like ADHD and "predators" til the cows come home] and I have no frikkin clue what you are talking about.

I have assumed that the OP is putting forward the theory that there are people out there who can inuitively spot those with different kinds of mental issue and use that to their own advantage.

Thus there would be those who would naturally seek out those with problems stemming from ADHD and be able to "understand" them in a way that would allow the "predator" to gain a psychological hold over the "victim"

From what I gathered of the OP's post there would be a different subset of "predators" able and comfortable getting close to schizophrenics in a similar way.

While I do believe that there are those who dominate, manipulate and generally prey on those weaker than themselves I do not think that evolution has gone quite as far as the OP's question.

The OP was putting forward a theory which I don't think anyone has put forward before in print, therefore it is not surprising that the concept or the terminology used are unfamiliar. The fact that it is a novel idea does not detract from it as a question and those with large amounts of experience in the field of ADHD and human predatory behaviours would be far better placed to comment on it than me.

The OP was novel and worth musing over as were the responses regardless of how well they were spelt.

kilt

and now he's just agreed to transfer management of his financial affairs to a cold calling sharedealing service.

I could eat a door.


OMG. . . . . :eek: I can imagine. If he can get it back maybe some one else should be in charge of his money for him = I thought every one knew better.




I find they all are so wanting "friends" and anyone who is "nice" to them they get "sucked into" and even led astray without seeing it until something happens.

For me this didn't last much past my teen years now I am very cautious and take my time getting to know people.


I have seen them prey on their
good nature,
wanting to be included,
easy to anger or frustrate,
forgetfulness/memory (borrowing and saying they gave it back or just never give it back!)being the "scapegoat", for starters.

Being the scapegoat is part of the deflection a bully uses. They deflect the blame back onto the victim. Some one even hint at this behavior they are out of my life.

That is what I meant when I said in my post
"pay back is a ***ch" I learned the hard way but I learned very well.

ADDer lack boundaries and this will get them into trouble, boundaries help them know when they are being taken advantage of easier in the game. ADDers may not necessarily learn them automatically like NTer do because we do not categorize / sort well. I was taught not only by experiences but also later in therapy due to the experiences.

I really like the idea of identifying the ADD bully. Hopefully it'll help people recognise predators before they can strike.

Let me chip in the characteristics of the bully I attracted in my late teens, within a couple of weeks of moving away from home. Interestingly, a few years later, my little sister fell into almost exactly the same trap at the same point in her life (different town, different bully). This was before I was diagnosed (inattentive).

Me:
- alone and longing for company
- in a bad relationship
- confused about a lot of things
- far away from family and friends
- time on my hands
- had always been a relatively good girl in terms of drink and drugs etc

The Bully:
- also alone
- time on her hands
- prototypical Bad Girl (s., d., & r'n'r)
- history of mental problems (she thought BP, I would now say personality disorder/Borderline, but little did I know then)
- history of huge rows with former best friends
- psychology major

How did she use my ADD to her advantage?
1. Creating false memories
I think she figured out pretty quickly that I have really bad memory, so basically, you can tell me anything that somebody might have said, and I cannot tell you if it's true or not. She would recite whole conversations that had allegedly taken place between us, in which I had supposedly said the most outrageously hurtful things to her, and I couldn't "prove" the contrary, although it seemed really unlikely to me that I had said them.
2. Inflating mistakes
When I made small, often ADD-related mistakes (like losing stuff or being late, but also really unpredictable things like listening to her CDs) she would throw huge and totally inappropriate tantrums, scaring the crap out of me and on-lookers.
3. Isolation
I had trouble keeping in touch with my old friends so she used my isolation to manipulate me, telling me my old friends were no good and she was "the only one you have". She also half-successfully prevented me from meeting new people, by either bullying them away or telling me how stupid they were.
4. The wall of sound
Very effective bullying weapon if used to intimidate the attentionally challenged. Just talk, talk, talk, until we blank out and either say "Yes, yes, you're right, I apologize. I don't know what got into me", or punch you in the face. In both cases, the bully wins.
5. Providing some really good thrills
Which of course I couldn't resist.

After a couple of months, I was positively brain-washed. Luckily, I met new, nice people, got into a new relationship and gradually moved away from the toxic "friendship" (which of course caused her to go totally ballistic). I am glad to say that we never spoke to each other again. I just hope she NEVER succeeds in becoming a therapist.

Does any of you recognise this mode of operation? If more people tell their stories, we can learn a lot, I think.

reading and rereading this thread i can not help but put my two or three cents in to the ring. First off I really do think that there are people out there that do prey on us adders, but I dont think that it is only those who do not have add or adhd but some could be those that do have it and either are in deniel of what they are going thru or just dont care about others. I think that my former boss is one of the people that did prey on people with add, basicaly me. she used many of the things that had been stated here: 1. Creating false memories

she would tell me time and time again that I either promised to do something that I did not or that I had done something or I was the last one to use something. One of the reasons I was fired was that I gave somone on scissors and that I did not get them back. I never used scissors on the day in question. True I had a craft group, but all groups under that catogorie did not need scissors.
2. Inflating mistakes

aonther time when I got written up some of the things that she accused me of she could not have seen from where she was sitting. I was doing a small group activity and she claimed I never got down to eye level with the people in wheel chairs, well I spent the whole group on the floor on my knees when I pointed that out she said I should have been lower, one person kept her head down.
3. Isolation

my old boss kept me on my own a lot and away from my coworkers.


so this is why I truly believe that there are preditors out there that look for peopls such as us to really make themselves look good. but it is not just the adders that the bullies look for it is any one that they can manipulate some kind of weekness in. With me and I really dont know how many others the weekness is not really the adhd but it is the self doubt and the low self image that is truly my weekness. I really dont want to make mistakes and really want to please the boss that I go over board in many ways to overcompisate. this then leaves very little room for me to stand up for myself in productive ways, and then when I have had enough and finally let things out, then bam it is done in a way that many many people precieve as being inapropriate and then i really get into trouble. then what i usally do is isolate myself even more and the cycle keeps repeating itself. Ill be honest sometimes i dont know how to break it.


Psychopaths have a diverting way of communicating, it is as if they contradict themselves, they can meet criteria for a variety of mental illnesses including AD/HD. They however can easily be avoided. Showing them up, so to speak, and playing like you are one of "them", will make them uninterested, but predators tend to be Narcissistic, Histrionic and/or Borderline as well. It is all about some type of manipulation.
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sometimes they can not be easily avoided as they are not so easily identified. look thru out history and you can see many many examples of psychopaths that were not identified untill it was way way to late. yes preditors tend to be narcisitic, but I stand by my statement that they are not always that easy to see. if they were there would not be so many abused children, beaten spouses, and murder victims.
Bullies have only two weapons at their disposal - penetrate those and they are helpless. . . .

Deflection - an attempt to make it appear as if the problem is you

Distortion - accusations that it is all in your head.

I really think that the bully or the preditor as they are being called here has one more hudge weopen in his or her arsonal, and that is the ability to get close to thier victims.

I am sory if I made this topic more than it should have been but I think that there are so many types of bullies and preditors out there and that is what makes them so dangours to us and to any one that precieves them selves to have any kind of weekness, bullies and preditors can sence that weekness and are drawn to it and try to use it for their own gain .

depending your age this can be a hard concept to trust in.

in reality there is no such thing as a predator unless they are coming after you with a gun, knife etc.

after that you can easily come to the understanding that they are simply people that you do not get along with. the old "how to win friends and influence enemies" scenario.

getting angry is the last thing you need to do when confronted with someone you feel is chalenging you in some way. getting angry or getting even will only put you under the same light as them. suddenly you are the person that can not get along with others. a now you are also shunned. plus its a golden rule scenario. do unto others as you would have them do unto you. so now youve created some bad karma for yourself.

being in sales i do find some people grating. the "back slapper". they are not always a bad person. the best thing to win a friend is look at what makes them tick. and give them the same. they will usually be responsive. so when they slap your back give them a very firm handshake and dont let go. look them in the eye. use your other hand and grip there elbow or bicep at the same time. maybe give them a firm slap on the shoulder while shaking hands. then pull them or move in more closely. there are some good books on this type of stuff.

in the work place when actually confronted such as someone is in your face yelling. and its not your boss. you need to keep cool and make sure that you dont say something that they can respond to and use against you. also create doubt. so say something like this "i would suggest that if you want to continue working here that you walk away now" most likely they will say something like "oh yeah you cant fire me". then create the doubt "do you know that for sure" or they may say something like "what can you do". and then create doubt in them "are you so sure that there is nothing that i cant do right now". this will usualy end it. so say some thing that will generate the response you need then create that doubt. what it really requires is a cool head. if the job needs cool when underpressure people then this is great excercise on acomplishing that

now sometimes you can be in a place were there really is none of that stuff. like when i worked construction. usually they are seeing what you are made of so just take it and laugh it off and they will soon respect you. or they will always hate you and then i would suggest that you leave, thats what they want. unless you really like that job and feel like a battle. then its between you and your karma.

d

Hi Kilt,

You said that being preyed upon (or something like that) by the government in a first world country is usually a beaurocratic issue or in the person's head. I beg to differ.

While I am too lazy/tired at the moment to give you examples, the government of the United States as it is is far from complete benevolence and lack of predatory behaviors toward segments and individuals in the population.
I'd say it's somewhat blind to assume that anyone who feels they have been taken advantage of by the government is likely either a victim of blameless faceless nameless beaurocracy bs or a victim of their own imaginative capabilities.

I apologize in advance for taking issue if I misunderstood what you were intending to convey.

spacedout

I really think that the bully or the predator as they are being called here has one more hudge weopen in his or her arsonal, and that is the ability to get close to thier victims


Hopefully not every one who has the ability to get close to us is going to be a bully. The bullies ability to get close while hiding their true self until it s too late is deflection. Any questionable things you may pick up on early in the relationship will quickly be deflected to some one else.

I simply generalized what some one else specified - I am a global thinker and my categorizations skills are limited along with the memory to maintain more than a few catagories.... Distorting reality = making mountains out of mole hills, false claims, incorrect perceptions, and actual manipulation of the environment.Deflection is blaming behaviors or words on others instead of taking personal responsibility. Any time a negative or possible wrong doing is addressed or questioned the bully will move to make it appear as if it is some one else's or some thing else's fault.


How I would have categorized the list used in the post above mine

1. Creating false memories
{Distortion} -


2.Inflating mistakes
{deflection}



3. Isolation
{distortion}


What she did not do is consider she was in any way responsible for her own perceptions or treatment of you. In other wards her behavior was never her problem it was always some one else's fault. She was always right and you were always wrong - sign of hoarse manure.


I also do not believe their is a predator specifically for ADDers I also agree the low self esteem may increase ones chances of finding their self in a bully victim relationship .Victims may not be the only ones in short supply of self esteem.

I believe ADDers are just as capable of being the predator as they are the victim. Unless one is actively seeking to change their predatory behavior this discussion would not be suited to their taste. Many more may simply fail to see their behavior as bullying - an example I have read in the non-ADD spouse section is some ADDers apparently use their ADD as an excuse/ reason to be verbally abusive to their non-ADD spouse.

Using ADD as an excuse instead of accepting responsibility is a type of deflection, thus a type of bullying. This would mean the ADDer in the role of predator. The ADD is used to deflect the responsibility off the person being abusive. One can be impulsive but one must accept how their impulsiveness is expressed as a personal responsibility as opposed to hiding behind it. Accepting responsibility mean acknowledging this is ones own fault and can be changed. Hiding behind impulsively is an attempt to avoid responsibility and convince the victim it is the ADD {deflection} and thus can not be changed {distortion} Which normally means continuing the abusive behavior in the expectation that another will put up with it - predator victim cycle.

I spoke freely because I accept the need and responsibility to change my own behavior. Praying on the predator is an effective means of avoiding victimization it is the most effective means I know of personally. It can also be a risk taking stimulation that attracts hyperactive people like me. Sense I only pray on predators themselves it is hard to see myself as being wrong. I do try to avoid them but that isn't always possible. I will freely exchange this method of coping in trade for another equally effective one.



Predators come in various forms and degrees - it is not a one size fits all category. .

Hopefully not every one who has the ability to get close to us is going to be a bully. I hope i did not make it sound like this was the case. there are lots of people that can get close to us that are not bullies or preditors, unfortantly for some of us(me included) our past experiances preclude the trusting, but that has more to do with me that it does any bully or preditor.

Hi SpacedOut

You are right that there are occasions when a "government" appears to act against an individual. These cases are rare, far rarer than governments either conniving discrimination or passing discrimantatory legislation.

For example the case of Valerie Plame could be construed as a government acting in a bullying way against an individual however if you think about it.....at that level within the administration there were many big ego's and my take on it was things got a bit personal.

The line between "authority/the government" and individuals within those structures is not easy to see and the closer one is to the seat of power the more difficult it becomes.

Thus a presidents/prime ministers advisers often get confused between damage to the image of the prime minister/president and damage to the status of the office of president. The more insecure the individual occupying the hot seat, the more likely it is that the line will vanish..and when that does things get personal, as with Valerie Plame and our own Dr David Kelly (an extremely senior and experienced weapons expert who voiced his doubts about Tony Blairs much vaunted Dossier on Iraq's weapons of Mass Destruction, and was hounded to suicide/murdered).

THese affairs however do not show the predatory behaviour mooted in the thread. The individuals concerned were not singled out because of a weakness, rather they were singled out because of their strengths and had to be removed. What would be interesting to know is whether the "administration" had selected weak and easily manipulatable individuals for significant places who could be bullied into doing the dirty work and made to carry the can if things became public.

It could then be said that predatory behaviour was occurring and I for one suspect this to be the case......but again one sees that this is individual to individual and not "Authority" to individual.....


kilt

PS Apologies for diverting the thread

WTF is an ADHD Predator?

I'm a bit more than familiar with Forensic Assessment [which examines things like ADHD and "predators" til the cows come home] and I have no frikkin clue what you are talking about.I was waiting to see what others thought before posting again...

Reading through the responses, I may have missed explaining what was obvious inside my own head... I am not talking about a personality disorder that would be on a forensic checklist.

Yes there are predator types (psychopathic pd, narcisistic pd, maybe borderline pd, etc.) who manipulate and target the weak, needy, etc. Sometimes these Generic Predators will target ADHD types, no doubt. That isn't what I meant however. Predator may have been a bad choice of words in retrospect.

I have run across a specific type of person who would not generally qualify as having any kind of personality disorder (so I am not talking about narcisists, psychopaths, sociopaths, etc.). They are otherwise normal people ... except they seem to have a very negative reaction to people with AD/HD; like oil and water, the type of person I had in mind seems to (a) have a base reaction to certain personality traits of ADD'ers, and (b) seem to be able to "see" the ADD'er without knowing (I assume) exactly what they are seeing. I think of them as a "Specialized Predator" because they don't seem to go after everyone, just ADD types. They hate typos, lateness, sloppiness, etc. with a passion that seems (to me) strange.

The people I have run across who fit this description are not, except with ADD'ers, abusive, overly manipulative, etc. At least not more so than average.

They hate typos, lateness, sloppiness, etc. with a passion that seems (to me) strange.
thats beacause they are ocd. ba dum dum

yeah my dads that way. hates it when some ones late. because when he was a kid, if you were late you didnt go. nothing wrong with that if its the rule.

not to many typo types that i meet any more. but in grade school i had a few teachers that were absolutely brutle about things like that.

my mom always had a bird when she saw my room. i have a bird when i see my kids room. you know sloppy

It sounded more like a description of a psychopath to me, the contradictory communication....

they need to read

Without Conscience

That describes what they think of as an ADHD predator

Ignorance is bliss

WTF is an ADHD Predator?

I'm a bit more than familiar with Forensic Assessment [which examines things like ADHD and "predators" til the cows come home] and I have no frikkin clue what you are talking about.

I was suffered schoolyard bullies for years until I went off the deep end with a boy in my grade (6th) who liked to throw rocks at me. After I bit through his ear, and left deep dental imprints on the back of his neck I developed the rep as a "crazy" and nobody messed with me. Suited me fine. Funny thing is my rage was so strong it scared the shyte out of me, because I totally blanked out the memory of having done this. But the evidence was clear.

I believe add-ers attract bullies because they do not pick up well on social cues, and do not realize they are under attack until they are being walloped. Bullies are total cowards and usually test the victim's willingness to fight with some mild aggression. before a full on assault. The challenge may be non-verbal such as glaring gaze or verbal put downs. If ignored or met with subservience, these attacks will escalate to an unambiguous physical assault.

The adult version of this is a lot more sophisticated, but essentially the same. There is only one defense - keep your ears wide open for verbal jibes and challenge them immediately. I read a book years ago called "The gentle art of verbal self-defense" I gained a lot of insight into the dynamics of bullying from reading it and would recommend it to anyone who has been victimized.

I've had some encounters with bullies and a manipulative partner. After I wrote about that (ex-)partner in another thread heyabird mentioned this thread.

I have no idea if there is really such a thing as an ADD predator. But my experiences seem to have a pattern that matches with the notion that certain types of people may be likely to be attracted to what is, for them, easy prey.

I have had multiple encounters with people who thought it was fun to pick on me. Primary school bullies (stupid space cadet), and later in my time* at the university it happened quite a number of times that someone would just single me out bc they thought I was "staring" at them ... and start saying all sorts of crazy accusations that terrified me: and the strange thing about that was that I actually believed those things for a short time (maybe I forgot that I did that .. maybe she's right ...) .. I just take everything serious and find it very hard to sort out at the moment. These people do have an easy victim in me.

In my previous job I had a manager who was a total bully, to the point that i suspect that he might be a sociopath. Lots of people in there had problems with him, but he took to me as the easy prey, for the same reason: I got much more upset than others, and had a hard time figuring it out - whether it wasn't my own fault etcetera.

And I had this 2 yr relationship with someone who may be borderline or something similar. That this happened may also have been because I just had moved to another country with all the uncertainty and stress that comes with it. Whether deliberately or not - she had a strong grip on me. Even though I was totally miserable in the relationship, it cost me 2 years to break free and only now, almost a year later, do I start to unravel what has happened. It was such a tangle of emotions and thoughts.

So what is the common factor in all this? In the people that I described, there was a need to vent, to just let off steam, to enhance their self-image, or - in the case of my ex-partner - to be loved and cared for. Not much in common there :)
But maybe there is something in why they chose me: probably because I let it happen. Because there is something in me that makes it easy to let it happen. I take almost everything serious when it is presented to me in person (as opposed to more abstract ideas, that I can gauge quite well). I find it really hard to determine priorities. Weak memory, that makes me doubt whether I did maybe forgot something. I'm quite immature / childlike in a social-emotional sense: when people approach me emotionally it it has a very strong impact on me; I love to please people and have a great need to feel loved and valued; and I am terribly upset when someone rejects me.

So at this time I don't know if there is a common factor in the people that have bothered me on some way or another, except that they have a talent for spotting the traits that make it easy for them. Oh, and of course the need to actually want to bother someone.

Oh, and I don't know how typical an ADD'er I am in this respect.

* studied is too large a word for what I did there :)

Lets see.......

Attention-seeking
Cynical
Stand out
Loud
Mean?
Unhappy looking
Controlling

My girlfriend is a magnet for "bullies". She manages to attract people who talk down to her, use her, make passive jokes about her in front of others, belittle her parenting skills, etc.

It's not just one other person, I've seen her befriend several. No amount of "why do you let them do this" gets through to her.

On several occasions I've been passed over in favor of one of these other "friends". My husband and I (*and my mother) can only come to the conclusion that she is comfortable with her "victim" status in these relationships.

Therefore, I wonder, is it still a situation of being bullied? We're in our thirties for crying out loud. One of her "friends" is well aware that I do not like her, as her attempts to treat me in a similar fashion were thwarted the third time I was in her company.


*shrugs*

I was definitely not happy in the situations I described, and did everything I could to change the situation. I have never settled on - or even approached - a victim status. I think these things can happen to you even if you are quite the opposite of how you describe your friend ... and if you're in your thirties.

Sorry, but I really want to emphasise this. I definitely disgusted being in these situations and fought to get out of them. I have never accepted being treated like that.

sadly, she doesn't seem to just tolerate it, she almost seems to thrive on it.

I'm only taken out of the "friend" cupboard if the dramas with the others are waining. And then it's only long enough to vent about them.

:confused:

I don't know if the psychos and sociopaths out there care what condition their victims have. They want to control and manipulate for selfish gain, and inflict harm in some cases just for the pleasure they derive from it. When you find yourself targeted the outcome in the majority of cases results in you leaving one way or the other. The only thing you can do is document, you can resist for a while and "tough it out" while you look for other opportunities elsewhere. The longer you can last, the higher the chance you might be able to get reliable witnesses and even document a "slip-up" where the perpetrator is sloppy and manages to discriminate against you in a manner that is protected under the law. You see, many of them are smart enough to do it in a "status blind" sort of way. But if there are enough documented instances of it, you may be able to make a case for hostile environment, or constructive dismissal. This way you may manage to get out with a layoff or have some legal avenue to explore - instead of termination, in which case you can file a nice letter to HR documenting your experiences in detail with the individual (and forward copies to senior corporate management). The predator is not counting on this, he wants you to be chewing your nails waiting for the next attack - not silently making entries into an excel journal.

Look for the following:

1. isolation
2. mountains out of molehills
3. surveillance / micromanaging
4. rude comments, or diminishing comments on your work (downplaying achievements that others recognize you for and enthuse over)
5. initially, buddy buddy charming behaviors - followed by the sudden turn into predator. shock & awe, they love the element of surprise.

When their target is gone, they WILL choose another target. Sometimes one of the mob members they had recruited on their side to out you. There ALWAYS has to be someone else to blame, especially if the industry / local economy is experiencing had times / downsizing.

document, keep your guard up, take care of yourself (food/fitness/sleep), and get out as soon as possible. Then leave your notes with HR and consult with legal if they slipped and did anything that violates the letter of the law. Don't dwell too much on "it's because I have ADD, my middle name is Terrence, I drive a yellow VW bug" no, the predator just needs a target period and it's not your fault, it's them.

I tend to agree with MSPEN's post.

We are talking about sociopaths or psychopaths: supreme, conscienceless manipulators.

Abused people who have turned into abusers. (e.g. prisons and business communities are full of them.)

Some may also be high self monitors too, who take advantage of ADDers who are sadly vulnerable, due to being low EQ/low self monitors.

Here are the 20 criteria in Bob Hare's PCL Checklist (psychopathy checklist) screener:


Items in the Hare Psychopathy Checklist - Revised

Item Factor Loading

1. Glibness/superficial charm 1

2. Grandiose sense of self-worth 1

3. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom 2

4. Pathological lying 1

5. Conning/manipulative 1

6. Lack of remorse or guilt 1

7. Shallow affect 1

8. Callous/lack of empathy 1

9. Parasitic lifestyle 2

10. Poor behavioral control 2

11. Promiscuous sexual behavior -

12. Early behavior problems 2

13. Lack of realistic, long-term goals 2

14. Impulsivity 2

15. Irresponsibility 2

16. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions 1

17. Many short-term marital relationships -

18. Juvenile delinquency 2

19. Revocation of conditional release (eg parole/failure to self regulate) 2

20 Criminal versatility -

Note: A dash indicates the item does not load on either factor.

(Source: Cooke, Michie, Hart, & Hare, 1999)


(NB psychopathy does not always have overlap with ASPD; they can be mutually exclusive.)

just be the alpha male and **** will solve itself

just be the alpha male and **** will solve itself
I dont know what you mean by stating be the alpha male. This is not always an option for every one. Not all of us are "Alpha(male or female" types. This is why knowing how to recognize a predator is so very important. Not only the ones that feed only on ADD/ADHD people, but those that feed on any one they percieve as weeker than they are. Im sorry if this a little strong but to say that being this way or being that way will stop someone from being a victim, really makes them a victim twice. It puts the fault of the incodent on the wrong person, not on the preditor. again if i am being to strong I am sorry but I am a very very strong advocate for victims rights and always will be.

well you can always buy a gun..... just kidding

What about some silent "Rosalie Boca" spaghetti sauce instead of a gun? :cool:

Oh, I learned my lesson. Now I will just say Ni to them and if that does not scare them away, I will taunt them a second time-a.

I know it's cruel but hey, who started :cool:

Oh, I learned my lesson. Now I will just say Ni to them and if that does not scare them away, I will taunt them a second time-a.

I know it's cruel but hey, who started :cool:
but have you brought your shrubbery with you?

Oh, I learned my lesson. Now I will just say Ni to them and if that does not scare them away, I will taunt them a second time-a.

I know it's cruel but hey, who started :cool:


I would rather pick the fenchys " you dont frighten me you english pig dog, i fart in your general direction !!! "... haha i love that line

I would rather pick the fenchys " you dont frighten me you english pig dog, i fart in your general direction !!! "... haha i love that line
but where did you get that coconut?

This post makes me think of a video that is out these days by the band Chevelle... where the guy gets revenge on his boss or co-worker (NOT A RECOMMENDED STRATEGY).

I think the main thing I'd look for are "patterns" and History. e.g. patterns of comments (shows their "thinking") and patterns in behaviours and outcomes.

That is what behavioral profiling does...

e.g.
Want to date a guy? How does this person talk about women? (if it is sexist, negative [$itches and wh&res] and it was always 'his exes fault'? Then he is likely to treat his next GF the same way) Often what they claim (she cheated on me!), is actually what THEY THEMSELVES did. Classic projection.

--

Other behavioural pattern considerations to look out for:
-Broken promises?

-Unrealistic 'fish' stories or lofty goals?

-Magical thinking? (may tell you what they "wish were true" as opposed to what is REALLY true.)

-Does this person leave you feeling manipulated or "played", and drained or bitter? (Like your needs don't really matter?)

-Does this person never take any responsibility for his actions/outcomes/bad circumstances? (always someone ELSE's Fault)

-Superficial emotions? aka Shallow Affect (crocodile tears; empty emotional words where words don't fit facial/emotional displays; msg is incongruent that way...serious things are said, but lack the appropriate Depth of emotion that should cooccur with them...)

-Exploits others or laughs at others misfortunes? (cruel; callous)

-Is this person a SUCK UP to authority, while STOMPING on "lesser folks", who are 'not useful' to him?

-Lies? (impressions management; makes you mistrust others to 'isolate and control'; if you and his other social victims got together and 'shared stories', all his BSing would come out.)

-Gossips and puts others down? (Which this Fake Friend *will* do to YOU, sooner or later...)
etc etc.