Hi all,

I went to a "free legal advice" forum and posted the following, and received this type of advice from "lawyers". I thought I would share:

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What is the name of your state? NY

Hello,

My son has been diagnosed with ADHD, and his father refuses to believe that he has any problem (though he has not attended even one appointment to the psychiatrist or therapist), so in consequence, does not give our son his medication as ordered. We have 50/50 custody (both physical and legal). Every time I pick up my son for his time with me, I find out that he is missing assignments from school, and is behind on a number of things like projects that he should have started already, and reading. He also refuses to practice his instrument - which my ex insists that he takes - even though he does not want to. By the way, our son is 11. I have tried talking with my ex, but he just blows me off. I am planning on getting ahold of the psychiatrist and asking for a note, requesting that he have his med at school in the morning. While I have no problem giving him his medication, he almost always misses it when at his dad's house. I believe simply having him take it at the school all the time, might get rid of this problem.

I know that my following issue is probably considered insignificant, but I am concerned about my son, because he complains to me that he is always tired, that he gets to bed around 11 pm at his father's house, because he has no set bedtime there. He also c/o stomach problems, which we have had him on medication for, and the MD stated he should eat a few hours before bed, not right before bed. Unfortunately, I often call to say goodnight to my son, and find out that at 9 pm they are just eating fast food takeout. If he continues to have medical problems (which I believe are related to poor eating habits and poor sleeping), and if a doctor agrees with me, is it reasonable to go back to court to get something in our custody agreement about these issues (his father not giving meds as ordered, and not feeding him or putting him to bed at a reasonable time)? I know these are piddly issues. We have never had to go back to court, and have in general had no problems that have required me to consider going back to court. I am simply tired of hearing my son complain. He says horrible things about his father, and often says he wants to live with me (however he also has a 13 year old sister who wants to remain 50/50). I would love for things to remain 50/50 if he would simply try a little harder to do what the doctors see is best for our child.

Any thoughts?

Here are some of the responses I got:


Honestly? At 11, your son is old enough to be tasked with both taking his own meds AND getting to bed when he's tired.

My kids are 7 and 10 and they are responsible for their daily allergy meds, their 'when needed' meds, and their bedtime/bathtime/homework.

I understand your child is ADHD, but really, he should be capable of handling his own things more and more.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by http://images.freeadvice.com/images_forum_v11_04/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1740557#post1740557)
Honestly? At 11, your son is old enough to be tasked with both taking his own meds AND getting to bed when he's tired.

My kids are 7 and 10 and they are responsible for their daily allergy meds, their 'when needed' meds, and their bedtime/bathtime/homework.

I understand your child is ADHD, but really, he should be capable of handling his own things more and more.
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Yep. 11 is more than old enough.


And last but not least of the responses was this:

Taking his medication at school would help the issue with his Dad not giving it to him...but it's also cutting it pretty close in terms of stabilizing/medication absorbtion, etc. Just to let the teacher know that the first part of the day may be rocky.

Not giving prescribed medication is certainly a reason to modify Custody/Visitation. I would consider talking to Dad about that. All the child's school records will reflect if he is not consistently on his meds. They will also reflect if his academics are falling, homework is not being turned in on those days, etc.



Needless to say, I was not too happy with any of these responses, except perhaps for the last one (which was the most helpful). I did respond, but will post that later.

I simply wondered if any of the members here had any thoughts?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

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OHMYGOSH! Yes, I agree the last one was most helpful. If he can take the meds at school that would totally bypass dad. If it can be shown that his schoolwork is suffering and missing while at dad's you'd have a case, as well as he's not giving prescribed meds. :-(

The first response was a bunch of patootie; ouch! Her kids are perfect I guess. 11 with ADHD can be like age 8.

I think in most states you can or have to go through a mediaton process first, perhaps that will rattle dad into some level of comprehension when he's served with mediation papers and goes and states why live over there is so dissheveled and he's in denial despite your medical documentation.

These are not piddly issues, At Heart. These are very important issues that need to be straightened out and dealt with. Some things are going to be different from one household to another, but denial and prescription meds to need to be addressed.
I think I've said this before, is he MY ex?????

Hi Frazzle,

Here was my response to the posters over there:

Hi all,

First I want to address something.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Honestly? At 11, your son is old enough to be tasked with both taking his own meds AND getting to bed when he's tired.

My kids are 7 and 10 and they are responsible for their daily allergy meds, their 'when needed' meds, and their bedtime/bathtime/homework.

I understand your child is ADHD, but really, he should be capable of handling his own things more and more. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Here is where you and I (as well as many doctors whom I have talked with about this very subject) differ on what you feel an 11 year old with ADHD (which by definition means that he is inattentive and has a hard time focusing) can or should be responsible for. Essentially you are telling me that my son should be responsible for his things, and for taking his medication. Perhaps when it has become more of a routine for him, it may be easier for him to be responsible to do so. At this point, when he has the medication for 5 days, then is off it for two, back on for two, then off for 5, it certainly shows in his ability to read, comprehend, and stay focused enough to organize his things. So if he is unable to stay focused and organized without the help of the medication, you expect him to be responsible for taking his own meds without his father having to supervise? Do you also not check to see if your child has done their homework? How do you know if your child (particularly a 7 year old) has taken their medication. Are their medications in a separate container for each of them, so their medications can't get mixed up? I have taken care of many of children in the Emergency room who's parents "allow" them to be responsible to take their medications, and have gotten an accidental overdose of someone else's medication. This is something I would never advise, nor would the doctors of my hospital.

What do children have parents for, if not to guide them, and teach them? If my ex can not be responsible to supervise them (his falling asleep in front of the TV, and allowing them to play video games or be on the computer until all hours, or even watch tv until they get tired enough to fall asleep) what is he there for? If he can't check to see if their homework is done, or to see if the teacher has sent him a note, again I ask, what is he there for. Do my children need to raise themselves while they are with him? I would like my children to grow up to be independent, however, allowing them to be up until 11 pm, when they have to catch a bus in the morning at 6 45 am, is certainly not helping them. Often they are just getting home between 9 and 10 pm, then he allows them to watch tv, and then get a shower before bed. They also often skip breakfast because their father doesn't wake them up in the morning in time to have it.

Perhaps I am naive, but I believe parents are supposed to teach their children good habits and be good role models.



Hello Casa,

I have tried talking with "dad" about it. He refuses to budge. He won't "make" our son take his medication. Our son has asked him, numerous times to come and talk with the psychiatrist or therapist when he has an appointment, but his dad refuses to do so. I have tried talking with my son, about trying to get him to be responsible to take his meds without prompting, but even at my house I have to prompt him (and have often had to give it to him on the way out the door) because he simply does not remember on his own. The school nurse stated that many kids take their meds like that (in the morning at school). While I agree that the medication would be better if it were in his system for an hour before school as that seems to be the time when Concerta reaches it's therapeutic effect, if I can't get his father to remind him to take it, what option do I have? I remember CJane telling me to doccument and then take him back to court, however this is only a month or so into school, and surely not enough time to show a clear pattern. Does my son have to get to where he is miserable and feels depressed (and perhaps suicidal) before I can have any hope that the court system will help me? My ex's refusal to believe that our son has any problem manifests itself by destroying my son's self esteem. His father tells him he is simply lazy and not trying hard enough. My son believe's that, tries harder (which the psychiatrist states, without medication, makes the ADHD worse), and fails, making him feel like a failure. How far do I have to let my son sink before I can reasonably expect the courts to intervene?

Sorry for writing a book, but I don't see the system as very helpful for children who have mental illness.

Thank you for listening.



HERE ARE SOME OF THE RESPONSES TO MY SECOND POST.

Whether or not your son takes Concerta may be open for debate. Since you share legal with the father certainly he has a “say.” Plenty of children “qualify” for ADHD meds and their parents still choose not to medicate. While I feel that true ADHD benefits greatly from meds, I don’t think he’s a jerk for not wanting to do it. What really stinks for your son is being on and off Concerta.

You two must come to an agreement. I suggest going to mediation on this. Entertain the possibility of NOT medicating. You are being as stubborn as he is if you are not willing to hear his cons. Even though you are a nurse, you do not trump dad.

I have seen ADHD meds given at school for consistency. In some of the cases, the parents have meant well, but honestly many kids with ADHD have parents with ADHD too. A fast acting pill for the morning and an extended release after lunch usually does the trick. It’s helpful if in his classroom his Language Arts is delayed for 45 min to an hour after school starts. Find out from his teacher if this is possible. If he is in middle school a puff class in the morning would be perfect. The big con here is that most children on this regimen have no appetite for lunch and end up scawny… offer him a huge snack.

Lighten up on the bedtime and other talk. It makes you sound pushy and silly. This really robs you of credibility on the bigger issue. Your son is old enough to go to bed at a reasonable time and do his homework. If not, he can suffer the natural consequences.

I don’t think handling controlled substances should be up to a child so I’m with you on that one. Concerta fetches a good price among teens. I’ve known youth to crush and snort it. It can be dissolved into cigarettes and smoked. I love working in the mental health field.

Can you call your son daily while he is at his dad's house, a specific time, and he can take the med while he is on the phone?

i have a lot of background (non-medical) on add/adhd, it is a focus problem caused in the brain when the neuro-transmitters are either over transmitting (hyper) or under transmitting (daydreaming).

believe it or not, working simple math on a graduated time scale (five minutes for a week or so, 7 minutes, etc.) can do wonders. Math generates more 'brain working' activity, per capita, then any other activity a person can do. the goal is 30 minutes of focus math. there is a name for this but i can't remember, if you are interested i will dig it up.

if dad can be convinced that jr. needs to work on his math skills (or even if you can get the school to work with you on this) you might see a lot of improvement w/in a month or so. it could be a 'bonding' time for dad as in the beginning it helps if someone is working/encouraging the activity.

writing out the addition/subtraction/multiplication/division tables while saying them aloud is the easiest way to go.

i have the research to back this up. i have worked w/three kids, pre-teen this way and they all improved. they were all from divorced homes and there was tension between the homes as well.

The next one is too long, but I think I will post in in another post.




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This is the response to my second post (from the woman/lawyer who thought my son should be responsible for his own meds, mealtimes, and bedtimes)



Do you also not check to see if your child has done their homework?
I ask my kids if they've completed their homework. If I have time, I spot check for accuracy. I do not hound them, nor do I follow them around making sure they've completed tasks they routinely need to complete. They're both A/B students.



Quote:
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Because if she doesn't, she feels like crap all day long. And when she gets home in the evening and says "Hey I felt like crap all day long" I say "Then you didn't take your meds. Take your meds, you won't feel like crap." She forgets about 2x/month (the 7 year old) the 10 year old takes hers when she needs them - by checking the pollen and ozone numbers on the news. We HAD to institute this ... policy ... because their father will NOT ensure that they take meds on his time (2 days every week). So the children became responsible for their own needs/monitoring their own meds.



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Are their medications in a separate container for each of them, so their medications can't get mixed up? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
They take exactly the same meds. Claritin D, Rhinocort, and Afrin as needed.



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">I have taken care of many of children in the Emergency room who's parents "allow" them to be responsible to take their medications, and have gotten an accidental overdose of someone else's medication. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Weird. My kids have NEVER, not once, even come close to taking the wrong thing, or taking too much of the right thing. They've been tasked with remembering their meds since they were 3 and 5 and with administering their own meds since they were 6. And that includes when my now 10 year old was on Sudafed 3X/day, Claritin 2X/day, Tagamet 4X/day, Afrin 3X/day and Rhinocort 2X/day. I wrote down in a notebook when she should take each medication (before lunch/after breakfast/before bed/etc) and she checked off what she'd taken. Easy peasy.




Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">What do children have parents for, if not to guide them, and teach them? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
How do you propose they learn, if not by doing/dealing with consequences?

A friend of mine had custody of her 8 year old grandson who suffered from ADHD as well as PDD. HE was tasked with taking his own meds. He was known for calling his grandmother from the school and reminding HER to refill his scrip. And if SHE forgot, in the rush of getting ready, he'd say "Gramma, if I don't take my pills, I'm not gonna have a good day at school"



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">If my ex can not be responsible to supervise them (his falling asleep in front of the TV, and allowing them to play video games or be on the computer until all hours, or even watch tv until they get tired enough to fall asleep) what is he there for? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Parenting choices.



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">If he can't check to see if their homework is done, or to see if the teacher has sent him a note, again I ask, what is he there for. Do my children need to raise themselves while they are with him? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Your 11 year old can't say "hey dad, Mrs X sent something home that you need to read"?



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">I would like my children to grow up to be independent, however, allowing them to be up until 11 pm, when they have to catch a bus in the morning at 6 45 am, is certainly not helping them. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Why can't your 11 year old determine for himself that he's tired? His dad isn't FORCING him to stay up, is he? Do you not understand personal responsibility/natural consequences at all?



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Often they are just getting home between 9 and 10 pm, then he allows them to watch tv, and then get a shower before bed. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Sounds like my house on 4-H nights... or if we go to the stable after school, or when we decided dinner out would be nice... or a hundred other reasons we're home late. Would you prefer he didn't shower? If my 10 year old doesn't shower, there's no amount of deodorant that's gonna win her a free pass into my car in the morning.



Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">They also often skip breakfast because their father doesn't wake them up in the morning in time to have it. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Suggest granola bars. Or... can't they eat at school?

Or... my kids DIG instant breakfast. Comes in a can. Easy peasy. Use it to wash down their meds too.


AM I THE ONLY ONE TO THINK THIS LAWYER IS SCARY?<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Oh dear! What made this lawyer an expert on ADHD kids? Part of ADHD is not being ablt to do the things responsible kids are supposed to do. Very scary, At Heart. Enlightening, and scary. Not very professional either.

Does anyone else believe that personal responsibility/natural consequences is the best way to teach your child? The fact that this woman BRAGS about having her kids be responsible for remembering their medications from the time they were ages 3 and 6, tells me that this mom is something else (and should likely have been turned in to CPS). This site is great for offering concrete legal advice, since it is exclusively run by lawyers, however there certainly is no one there that is warm and fuzzy. No wonder lawyers have a bum rap when people like this represent them.

I try to explain to my children that they are old enough to know that if it is after 10 pm, it is not time to start watching their favorite TIVO'ed show with their dad. Unfortunately, my children like to please people - especially their dad. What's a mom to do???

As far as the medication issue, I think it is time for another talk with dear old dad. This time if he hangs up on me, I will send him a certified letter. Or do you think that is over the top?

Also, what do you think about this other posters assertions that doing math calculations is helpful in easing ADHD symptoms? He says he has research. Perhaps I will ask him to put up or shut up?

At Heart

Well it's nice to know that their kids are so very perfect. :rolleyes:

If dad has "proof" then ask him to share. If he is really so convinced that there's nothing wrong with your son, tell him to come and share that with the doc. Maybe that will get him there.

My father was ignorant with the medication thing too, and I was constantly getting disciplined and after awhile he realized that discipline wasn't everything, and you have kids that are med compliant, give me tips when I have kids because hyperactivity is genetic from my father's side, they are all wound so I know my child will be hyperactive and just like me with the refusing medication thing

It sounds like things are way past the "Dad just needs education about the kid's condition" phase.

He sounds downright Defiant, eh?

I'd say try getting an Assessment done at a Family Court Clinic.

This consists of interviews being done by a Psychiatrist and Social Worker. The report is then submitted to the Family Court.

This guy's refusal to give the kid meds is messing with your kid's school, etc. Which means he is messing with your kid's life/future. It is called neglect. (Would he also withhold the child's meds if he had Epilepsy?)

Go for full custody?

An Assessment Report and Home Study Report of both parents will help your case.

re: child's stomach problems

This can be due to meds.

It can also be due to stress from having a stressful parental setting. Your exhusband is creating a very distressing situation. On top of that, the child sees you up set, and it creates a stress triangle. The child has to watch your distress at being manipulated by the exhusband. Terrible.

These stress symptoms in children can go into the body.

It is called Somatization. (I had an ulcer at age 9 that they couldn't figure out. This is what it was. Stress can cause terrible 'stomach problems' in children. The gut is loaded with sensory and pain receptors. The stress chemicals stimulate these receptors!)

Children don't have the words to describe the distress causes and emotions, so it goes into their bodies as symptoms. Same with sleeping problems.

If you go to women's shelters, about 1/2 the people have stomach problems, headaches and sleeping problems. Adults can also complain of backache, and fatigue and IBS, etc.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/oes-bsu-02/child_e.html

Withholding meds, so that your kid can't do his schoolwork must also cause him great distress and conflict with you and with the school too: because he is "a failure" for "not having his work done".

This guy is really setting the kid up for some devastating consequences.

Poor kid!

Hi Lady Lark,

I haven't yet figured out what button to push when it comes to getting my ex to come with us to our son's appointments (with either the therapist or psychiatrist). Perhaps telling him that he should come and talk with the psychiatrist about why he thinks our son has no problems (he does not understand the concept of hyperfocus). Perhaps I will try one more time. When our son asked him to come, he point blank said no.

Hi Mspen,

I think that if my son has to hear it frequently enough (that he really has no problem, that he is just lazy) from his father, he might give up. My ex just doesn't want to know about the medication. His denial is a thing to behold. I am glad your father started realizing that discipline is not the only answer.

Hello QueensU,

I am going to talk with the school about getting an IEP. Perhaps, if after that is done, I can have some evidence that my son does not do as well on the days he does not take his medication (his teacher is simply too overwhelmed with the number of kids she has to supervise, to notice if my son has had his med or not. He is not a behavior problem. She does notice when he "forgets" to turn things in...)

I want to give my ex another chance to realize how important the med is to our son, and how important encouragement is. I think that he has no clue how much it hurts our son to hear him say that he is not trying hard enough, or is lazy. If by the time the school gets on the ball with an IEP, he has not made an effort to give our son his meds, then I will have no choice but to put up, or shut up.

Thanks for the advice.

At Heart

Also, what do you think about this other posters assertions that doing math calculations is helpful in easing ADHD symptoms? He says he has research. Perhaps I will ask him to put up or shut up?Please do, by all means! I gotta see this.

Math does wonders for my AD/HD :eyebrow: Ask him if he ever heard of dyscalculia? I wanna see that reply too!!

Here is the post that I got explaining the "math" theory:


i'm probably going to get fried here...
<HR style="COLOR: #f5f5f5" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->but here goes...

It's called the Kraepelin test. if you research that you will find Kraepelin is some kind of psychologist. I never bothered with that.

i came to it via this article years ago:

http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/familyresources/a/videojap.htm

I was researching the potential effects of auto-suggestion hypnosis and dissasociation.

specifically i was working with alpha/beta/theta brain waves and whether or not they could be influenced/controlled aside from something like bio-feedback. (this has NOTHING to do with legal, obviously)

Alpha waves = sleep
Beta waves = focus, concentration
Theta = hypnosis

When someone zones in on computer games they essentially go into theta, which is hypnosis. (yes, it is true)

anyway i was connected to a person who had successfully worked w/his step son bringing him out of severe ADD through intense behavior modification (a system was set wherebye if he followed all the steps he would earn a nintendo game. he got it).

I took what i learned from my brain research, applied it to myself and two children, one 8 and one 10, from different homes. myself and both kids improved remarkably.

flash forward to this past summer when i had my husband's children. i worked with his son using flash cards, having him write out additions and subtraction for extended amounts of time. his attention span improved as well.

however, he is back w/his mom now and she refuses to do anything i have any input on so he no longer does anything consistently. it reflects.

here are two other sites you can review;

from 2006: http://www.betanews.com/article/Study_Violent_Video_Games_Affect_the_Brain/1164746751

from 2007:

http://www.sciencenewsforkids.org/articles/20070124/Feature1.asp

i did the work i did independently, using the reference i found on the Kraepelin test along with the work i was doing on the brain. Because i have used the math technique on three kids (i don't consider myself as relevant) and seen marked improvement all three times i believe the approach for improving focus and concentration works.

i know these sites focus on video games and not ADHD. what i was looking for was the brain waves, what effects them and how to control them consciously, effectively.

ADHD is when your neurotransmitters and either firing to much to fast or insufficiently. i believe we have a lot more control over our being then what we want to believe or know.

Telling someone that they have a condition that they are powerless over doesn't work for me. (one can only imagine how my current life situation messes w/my brain!) Teaching someone 'this is what is going on' and then 'and this is how we are going to NOT let it kick our butts' works much better for me.

here is one last site that may be of interest to you:

http://www.causeof.org/brainwaves.htm

being that you are a nurse i figure any of these sites would interest you anyway.

i hope this helps and you see the same results i did.


I HAVEN"T LOOKED ANY OF IT UP, BUT THOUGHT I WOULD POST IT ANYHOW.

This was her second post, which made me laugh:

ok, so AFTER i posted the above i got the brain flash to google "math helps ADHD" and "math and ADHD".

both times i find that, evidently, matt is extremely difficult for ADHD. i never gave that any thought when i was working with the kids. and, evidently, they over came because they got it.

so. there you have it. the good and the bad. and the experts to tell me i was wrong.

good thing i didn't know that when i was doing the work.

Funny huh?

Well,

I still haven't read any of her links, but plan to. Who knows, she might be on to something.

Oh my God! I can't believe how narrow-minded some people are - but I guess that's what we are up against as parents of children who don't quite fit in with the norm.
I have a 5 year old with ADHD and an 8 year old who doesn't have ADHD. I would not trust either child to self-administer meds. Both have eczema and they only put their own cream on under supervision! I would love to know how these lawyers would deal with the legal implications of their self-medicating children accidentally over-dosing. It is utterly irresponsible. As an adult, it is sometimes quite easy to forget meds, or worse to forget that you have already taken them and to take a double dose.
I am a teacher and I am all for encouraging independence, but a line has to be drawn somewhere! I cannot believe that supposedly educated people can be spouting such utter rubbish.
I don't know any 11 year-old who would not relish the opportunity to be able to stay up late. Yes they need to learn the consequences, but that is ridiculous!
I can see the arguement that if the parental role is shared, both parents have a say over whether a child should be medicated, but how can someone exercise their right to an opinion when they won't even attend any of the meetings/discussions about the matter.
Surely people offering legal advice should do just that. Not offer their personal opinion on medical/parenting matters that they have little or no experience of. The arrogance of it all beggars belief!
You are obviously trying to do what is best for your child, and you know him better than anyone. Life is enough of a struggle without other deliberately adding hurdles which do not need to be there. Keep doing what you are doing, keep the moral high-ground and don't let them make you think otherwise.

As for getting them to do maths... don't get me started on that one!!!!!

:soapbox: