What do you do when your child is completely out of control???? My 6 1/2 yr old daughter has been losing control more and more these days. She screams and throws terrible tantrums and can be very defiant at times.

A little bit of background first: Neither me or my daughter have been diagnosed yet, but I'm pretty sure we're both ADD. I don't have health insurance, and I just recently got her on medicaid. I have a live-in boyfriend of about 3 years who is more of a father to her than her biological will ever be. My boyfriend has been 'out of town' for about five months, which I know has affected her behavior, but this is getting out of hand!

Normally when we're out in public, she is pretty well behaved. Yesterday, I don't know what happened. We had to go to the grocery store to pick up a couple things. I told her ahead of time we would only be getting the couple things we needed and not to ask for anything else. Usually she's pretty good about that. She did ask me for a couple things and didn't get too upset when I said no. Then she saw the doughnuts. It was all over with. Here I am, in the middle of the grocery store, with her yelling about doughnuts! I couldn't just leave, she needed the one thing for a school project that was due today. I let her carry the doughnuts to the self-check out but told her I was absolutely NOT buying them. So, I'm trying to check-out, she's screaming, trying to grab the box off the top of the shelf. I managed to get my stuff in the bags and then had to try and drag her out of the store. I let go of her for a minute and she actually ran back in the store screaming that she had to have her doughnuts!!! It took me 15 minutes to get her out of the store and in the van. She's screaming the entire time. I'm trying to carry two bags of groceries and a hysterical child to the van. I had to literlly force her into the van, she was fighting me sooo hard. It was so bad, I'm surprised no one called the police thinking I was trying to kidnap her. I don't think I'm ever going into that store again!!! I have never been so horrified at her behavior.

After we were home for a while, she calmed down and we actually had a pretty decent night. She's been having these kind of tantrums at home more often, and I'm at a loss. I try to stay calm, but I admit I yell back sometimes, because I just don't know what to do. She won't go into a time out, so sometimes I'll go in my room to give us both a chance to calm down. What does she do??? Yells even more and tries to break down my door.

Usually, once she calms down and gets over it, she's my perfect little angel. We'll usually sit down and talk about it when we're both calm. I know she doesn't like acting like that, she just doesn't know how to control it. She has these fits of rage and defiance that I don't know what to do about. I feel like it's all my fault. I must be doing something wrong, she's pretty good for everyone else. Lately, I've just been feeling like the worst mommy in the world, which is NOT helping my depression either!

Thank you to everyone who read this long rant. Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!!!!

My son goes through similar times... I would term it hysterical. His emotions run away with him and he is beyond reasoning with. No punishment or threat will control him when he is like that.

My wife and I disagree on how to handle it. I believe in spanking him at this point, as I think it is the only thing that will get his attention through his hysteria. But I don't do that because she is opposed to spanking...

Her solution is to calm the child and listen to what they say, try to talk to him reasonably. EVENTUALLY this does work, but it takes sometimes as long as two hours.

I know that spanking DOES work in the case of my son because I did it a couple of times before my wife and I agreed not to do it anymore.

Which is DAMN frustrating.

On the subject of spanking, I don't like it at all either... but I am very practical. And in situations like this, SOMETHING must be done to solve the problem...

Thanks for the input wayward!

I am for the most part very against spanking, but lately I admit I have tried it, at least to get her attention. It usually doesn't work though!So what are we to do when we have a hysterical child that can't be calmed down? Any ideas besides getting hysterical ourselves?

I spoke with my daughter's teacher briefly today about her anger problem, and her teacher is going to set up a short meeting with the school counsler to talk to my daughter. Hopefully, she can come up with something.

I'm sure her behavior will improve at least slightly when my boyfriend comes home, but that irritates me even more. It's MY daughter, she should listen to ME!

It sounds like she has ODD--oppositional defiant disorder, which can harden into a conduct disorder if not taken care of. It commonly co-occurs with ADD, so get a diagnosis as soon as possible. My son has this, too.

Originally posted by LostOne
She has these fits of rage and defiance that I don't know what to do about. I feel like it's all my fault. I must be doing something wrong, she's pretty good for everyone else. Lately, I've just been feeling like the worst mommy in the world, which is NOT helping my depression either!

first, from what you have written here, i would say that this is *not* all your fault!!! you are NOT the "worst mommy in the world." this is negative self-talk. please, stop blaming yourself.

you are doing the best you know how to do.

posing this question here, proves my point. when you don't know what to do or need more, constructive, ideas, you ask for help. What a *GREAT* mom you are!!!!!

i read a parenting book that explained the "she's good for everyone but me" phenomenon. dr. william sears (i think :rolleyes: ) wrote that kids will lose it with the person that they are *most* comfortable with and whom they *know* will love them NO MATTER WHAT!

you said that "normally, she is well behaved" so, *i* would start with trying to talk to her about what may have changed in her environment recently. think back, when did you notice the behavior problems start? did she have a fight with a friend at school? any new teachers at school? anything??? is their a discernable pattern? (i.e. is she more likely to act out when she's hungry, tired, bored?)

be a detective. she's giving you some clues. you get to try to puzzle out the *why* of what she's doing.

good luck and *GOOD JOB* for asking for help/advice here and at school from her teacher. please keep us posted. :)

Stranger - When she was in Kindergarten, her teacher had mentioned ODD, but after talking to a few other parents with kids in the same class, I found out she told quite a few parents that and blew it off to the teacher having no patience. I'll have to look into it some more.

wheezie - First of all, thank you so much for the kind and encouraging words! She definitely has much more attitude when bored or tired. Her behavior has gotten way worse since my boyfriend left town. Once when I was talking to her, and I was in tears and asking her why she acted like that for me, she told me because he was gone. We sat and talked and I explained why he was gone, and that it wasn't her fault or mine, and that he would be home soon. I think its partly because she misses him, and partly because I just don't have as much time to spend with her now. My boyfriend will be home in 2-6 weeks, and I know the situation will improve at least slightlly then. Wish us luck...I'll keep you posted!

This is for Lostone and Wayward:

My child is an only child. Me and my husband both make a good living and can afford to buy for her whenshe wants something. I use to think my child never throws a temper tamrum in the stores because she sees something she wants. Well, that was only because I would buy her something everytime we went to the store. Oneday we went into a drugstore and I had misplaced my debit card and only had a few dollars cash on me. She saw something she wanted and I didn't have my debit card to buy it for her. Well, let me tell you what-ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!!!! She got down on the floor kicking and screaming at the register, people were having to step over her, I was HORRIFIED. She throw temper tamtrums all the time at home and I would just go outside and sit on the deck until she wore herself out crying.

I will explain to you what I did that day and it has been one year and she has yet to even ask me for anything else when we go to a store:

I picked her up (over my shoulders) and took her to the bathroom in the store. I cut the fan on and the water (for noise reduction). I sat on the toliet (lid down) took her panties down, turned her over my knees and blistered her little bottom. I told her if she ever did that again she would get the same thing. Well, the next time we went into a store she did the same thing and guess what I did the same thing. This went on for 1 week. After the 5th store and the 5th bathroom spanking she has never asked me for anything. She may say, "Mommy, you can buy this for me for my birthday if you like". That is the most she will say. Now for the first couple of months after all the bathroom incidents before we entered a store I kneeled down and said, "Madison, what do we ask for?" she would say, "nothing" and I would say, "what do you get?" and she would say, "nothing that I ask for" and I would say, "now that's the way I expect you to behave".

I used to be a big advocate against physically hurting a child in anyway (call it spanking if you want-it is still hurting). Now that I have a child and know that sometimes that is the ONLY way to get their attention. Without it they have no fear and sometimes fear is good. We all have fear of some kind. Without fear of the law we would be robbing banks left and right. We would drive 90 miles an hour when we are running late. I don't believe that nothing good has ever come out of fear because a certain amount of fear is good.

Now, about spanking, I don't believe in beating them around the room with a belt or using anything but your hand. The hand on the bottom is the only way it should be done.

I promise you my child would be running our household if I didn't sometimes have to put the fear of God in her. And this is not acceptable. For wayward- Your wife may be doing too much talking and not enough acting. I know it works because me and my child are proof it works. But being consistant is the key. If you do it once for something you have to do it again for the same thing. I am not a tyrant or anything I am very loving toward her and we do a lot of talking about the little things but the big things that's totally unacceptable with me well I don't talk I act.

Hope this helps.:)

Lost one you discribe my sons tantrums and behavior to a T.
I have an eight year old boy who has definetly an impulsive Defiant disorder. I still don't know how I feel about spanking/hitting. He is way to strong for me to spank now. Lately he has been pushing everything it seems. He used to pull the tantrums in the store once a month or less. I would give him warnings to pull it together. If he didn't I would drag/carry him out leaving our cart. He hated that and it seemed to work.
I hit my son on the arm about a week ago, when he bad mouthed me. Called me a name then when I explained how it made me feel, he said Shut up! I was driving and felt so bad that I felt had to let him know ho upset I was and I hit him. He has behaved a little better since. Shock value has it's rewards. I still don't believe in hitting or spanking. I just wish there was a simple answere. I felt so horrible after. He hasn't been hit or spanked much, but I feel like it a lot. I have actually hit him in the arm one other time when he was having a tantrum in the car, about a year or two ago.

Justolme, I even felt terrible the few times I've spanked him, how do you not feel bad afterwards?

I've been reading about ADD children recently. I don't know whether either of my kids is ADD, but they do tend to get overwhelmed in noisy/busy settings and start acting up. I'm not comfortable with spanking .... I have swatted the older child during some of his fits, but a.) it didn't help, and b.) it made me feel as if I had lost my cool too much. If I used that method of discipline all the time, I'd be worry about the punishment escalating as the kids got more out of control. Your milage may vary, as always.... ;)

Some of the things that have helped: We discuss where we're going and exactly how I expect them to behave. If I sense trouble brewing, I tell them upfront what the consequences will be if they don't do as I say. (for example: if I have to tell you 3 times not to do something, you lose TV privileges for the day) I try to make the consequences consistent, so that they know what to expect. I also try to make the consequences immediate whenever possible. Sometimes they will get a small reward (usually just praise or time doing something they enjoy). When my older son went through a particularly disruptive phase, I had to break him back into "behaving" gradually, taking him on short errands and praising him when he handled them well. Once we'd established that pattern, longer outings got easier. But all of this takes lots and lots of repetition before it truly sinks in, especially with younger kids (mine are 5 and 3).

The upside? I'm sloooooooowly learning patience.... ;)

janine.... I can relate! My daughter is only about a foot shorter than me and very strong. It's difficult for me to get a hold of her and keep her still long enough. And when I do spank her, it just makes me feel worse too.

krisp....One of my problems is definitely my lack of consistency. Partly I think, because I've tried so many different things, none of which seem to work.

I was thinking today that a big part of the problem is if she is ODD or even ADD, she needs me to keep things structured. Being ADD myself, and untreated, I have a very hard time with this. I've read about all kinds of behavior and chore charts. Having definined routines so she always knows what to expect. I've come up with so many plans and great ideas, they just never seem to get very far. This is partly why I say I feel like its my fault. How can I help her, when I don't even know how to help myself?

It is really rough trying to impose structure on a child when you have trouble with it yourself! Maybe a child psychologist or an educator could suggest some tactics to help you both. (If so, don't forget to share them with us! :D )

Me, I'm just reading and gradually trying to implement good ideas. It's not easy for me either, but I'm just taking it a step at a time... Don't beat yourself up if you can't become SuperMommy overnight. (She doesn't exist. Honest.)

Janine,
I only feel badly for spanking her if I have spanked her for something small she has done and because I happened to be in a bad mood when she did it. That makes me feel OVERWHELMINGLY terrible. I haven't done it much maybe a couple of times but have felt horrible guilt afterward.

My big thing has always been the temper tamtrums. I absolutely do NOT have the patience for them. They make me sooooo angry I could go through the roof. They are embarrassing, they show she is trying to get her way at all cost, she knows I hate them and she is pushing my buttons. I, like a lot of ADDers, are very sensitive to noise and hearing a 5 year old belt out a tramtrum trying to get her way I do not feel badly burning her tale up!

I have an only child and she appears so spoiled when she throws a fit to get her way. I will absolutely not tolerate it. Most everything else she does wrong she is old enough for us to discuss why that wasn't a good idea and let her know concequences (sp?) to her behavoir. My child is not AD/HD nor ODD. I have heard that spanking a ODD child does NOTHING except esculates their defiance. I know with me being ADHD getting spankings as a child made me angry and I wanted to lash out at other things or people. I was definately not a good canidate for spankings going up.

hi im new member to this forum and have a 9 yr old son with adhd he is seeing a psychiatrist for this and takes the medication ritalin we also have a lady that comes to the home from an out patients hospital that deals with adhd in children to help me and my husband come up with diffrent strategies in coping with his behaviour i've prob gone through all of the above at some stage as he was diagnosed with it at the age of 3 and i know the smacking might work for a short time but not in the long run as they rebel against it as they get older anyway this lady who comes to the house has come up with several diffrent plans to help with the behaviour and although you may have already tried them the key is to stick to it at all times the first is something silly like a star chat i have trouble with my children going to bed so we did a star chart for when they went to bed it went like this half an hour b4 they went to bed we would half quiet time where we would all sit quietly maybe reading a story or watching some tv and then bath brush teeth and get in to bed then if they where to get out of bed they would get a warning and id say ok thats your first warning gone if you get out of bed again bang kick walls whatever you will get another warning which will be your final warning and you will loose your star so after 2 warnings they loose star u do this every night and say same thing u need to make the routine the same every night where possible but whatever u do you do not shout in the first week they need to get at least 3 stars and they get a reward something small that they like admittedly it goes down hill a bit and they take no notice whatso ever but if you are like me and u cannt help but loose yout temper and shout then there going to play you up when all of a sudden your not shouting anymore and your trying to talk and praise them on nights when they are being good u praise as much as u can for small achievements so cos your not shouting they wonder whats going on and try that little bit more ie behaving worse than usual to get your attention and see how far they can push you so as long as your consistent and keep to the same thing and try your hardest not to shout this does work obviously it takes a few weeks and they will get worse b4 they get better but its worth the rewards in the end the other thing is when your children are being naughty it's a case of distracting them from the situation say it's your child working themself upto a fight with a sibling you need to be able to see it coming and stop it b4 it happens maybe something like oh could you come and help me with this please or how would you like to draw a picture or come and look at this something along those lines but again this takes time and a great deal of effort but does work in the end if you keep doing the same thing over and over and try not to shout obviously there are going to be times when u cant step in and distract and you do need to lay the law down but for the most part it is possible and remember to keep the praise floowing for the small things i hope you understand this and it helps

*smiles* I'm just grateful it's not just my children.

I need help, and I don't know where to turn. My daughter's behavior is getting increasingly worse, and I feel like I'm losing my mind. Last week, my downstairs neighbors finally made a complaint to the apartment manager and we got a write up for the noise. Three write ups mean automatic eviction. We had to move out of our last house mostly because of her tantrums. I picked her up from my mom's last night, and as we were coming up the stairs my daughter noticed the neighbors TV on and wanted to stop and apologize. I told her it was already past her bedtime, we could do it after school today. Everything was ok for about 5 minutes, then a tantrum. I don't even remember why.

When I was tucking her in bed last night, I told her tomorrow's a new day and a new week. Let's start over and do this right, no yelling, no tantrums. Lately, she's been telling me she doesn't know how to be good. I tell her I don't believe that, she does know how to be good, she just makes bad decisions sometimes. Now I'm wondering, maybe she's right.

This morning we were already battling so bad I wasn't even going to send her to school. She didn't want to put her shoes on, fine. Stay home. Be grounded all day, and miss the sleepover she's supposed to go to this weekend. I ended up driving her to school with both of us in tears.

Things have been so bad that lately I'm considering sending her to live with her father. But I can't do that. I know he's not responsible enough. I'm afraid he'd ruin her more than I am. I don't know what else to do though. I'm going to call her doctor to get a recomendation for a psychologist, but I'm afraid it won't help much unless I get the help I need too.

I know most of her problems stem from me. Almost all her bad behaviors she has learned from me. I have a horrible temper. I yell, I've thrown things, I've slammed a door or two before. Right now, I feel like I have absolutely no right to raise a child. I feel like I'm ruining her life. When I say I want to send her to her fathers, it's not because I don't love her, it's because I do. I want her to have a normal, happy life. I don't want her to grow up angry and depressed like me. She deserves better than that. I don't feel like I can give her the life she deserves.

I know I have serious depression and anxiety problems, along with ADD. The problem is I have no insurance. I've tried to get on Medicaid. I've tried the local hospital which offers assistance for low-income. I've tried my family doctor, who charges way to much and refuses to bill me. I don't know where else to turn. I can't keep living like this. I can't keep ruining my daughter's life. My mom jokes about how she is so much like me. I don't find it funny, I find it very disturbing and depressing. I don't think she realizes how bad things really are.

Thank you all again who took the time to read my long rambling. I just have no where else to turn right now. No one else I know understands. They just think I don't know how to discipline my child. Anyone I talk to makes me feel worse. They always say, 'Well, if was my child...blah, blah'. The worse she gets, the worse I feel, which makes her get worse. It's a horrible cycle, and I know it needs to stop.

OK lostone I'm gonna reply but will take a long time to get it all out just wanted you to know someone hears your plea.

Hugs

Lostone,

First of all I honestly do NOT believe your daughter's and your relationship are a lost cause. Her wanting to stop and apologize to the neighbor's shows a great deal of caring and empathy. It also speak's of the wonderful job you have done in teaching your daughter responsibility for her action's. I make my children write or make sorry card's--the reasoning behind this, is that the recipiant has a constant reminder that my child know's they are naughty at times and it is upsetting them and they are so very sorry.

Children do not know how to be good it is something forced on them by society. The thing for you to do is step back and decide which lesson's you would like her to learn first and what steps are taken. A major task I know,,,been there, done that, still living the nightmare is my motto lol. Just remind her SHE is NOT bad but the BEHAVIOUR is and will not be tolerated.

Hugs. Your dilemma this morning touches me deeply we still have morning's like this. Make sure it is not something else i.e. my son has been bullied at school and afraid to attent but was a ashamed to tell me. We also started a checklist the night before that has helped make morning's less stressful.

I have found a family therapist has helped us the most... Even suffering from ADHD myself I cannot alway's relate to my children's angst and in family session's I am not allowed to get angry or talk over them. The point being it's their turn to voice their woes with the world and us. And we get our turn as well. i.e. NO screaming and yelling does have it's point's

I too felt I did not deserve my children and I was ruining their lives...I find at times when they have bad day's or I do that I still feel that way. I have a mean temper (Irish, German, Italian--not a good mix for temper control); but, like my children I work on controlling it,,,it is a long, hard battle I know. But, I find my children have less tantrum's when I throw less of them myself. All I can say is Good luck I'm rooting for you and if I can do it so can you.

And I ask that you remember you are alway's in our heart's here so please do not say you have no were to turn. We are right here for you when you need us most. So, take a deep breath and fortify yourself for the day to come and do not lose hope for when you lose hope your daughter loses hope and nobody wins. From what you have posted about your daughter and how you react to her tantrums I think God knew what he was doing when he gave you this child. You sound like you are doing the best you can with a difficult situation.

I would like to show you some checklist and charts and awards that have actually helped a lot with my kid's if you are interested please let me know.

Keep your head up
Cherity

The book parenting without pressure seems very good.
I really feel for you as I have such a rebelious son. I got into a lot of battles recently with him. And just felt awful, and felt I was a terrible mom.

Janine you are NOT a terrible mother either...we just feel that way on bad day's it's completly normal so I'm told not that it makes me feel any better lol. And I have heard wonderful stories about that book, I had my library order it for me (I'm kinda cheap and don't like buying anything till I'm sure it applies to my needs lol).

I'm a new member to this forum, I believe that my 5 yr. old son has adhd. he is hyper from the time he wakes up in the morning untill the time he goes to bed. He won't except no for an answer; I've tried the threats,spanking, reasoning,ect. when he wants something he just ignores my answer and keeps asking untill he gets the answer he wants, if he does'nt get the answer he wants he throws a fit. if I spank him he gets really mad and tries to hit me back. I can totaly relate to what you are saying. On top of all this he was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes 10 months ago so now he has to have insulin shots 3 or more times a day. this gets to be real hard. I also believe that I have adhd and a few of my siblings do too. I'm going to see someone this week to try and get a diagnosis.

welcome squirly!

if you want the official welcome, head on over to "New Member Introductions" http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=14 and post your intro there.

There is a lot of support here and many great parents with wonderfully innovative ideas who have been in the similar spots as you. i hope you enjoy getting to know everyone.

Hi, SquirlyQ, and welcome to ADD forums! I second wheezie's invitation to come introduce yourself and get to know the people here! It's a great place.

I have a really hard time with Just's description of spanking her child's bare bottom. If it seemed all right, why turn on the fan and the water so people win't hear? I don't like spanking, but there is no reason to spank with pants down. It is humiliating and degrading.

Thanks, I'll do that.

Hi LostOne,

My heart goes out to you. I have an only child and I think just that fact alone sometimes allows her to pull my strings. I had some very bad weeks with her the past month and have also been at my wits end. My daughter is 9, almost 10 and at the point where she "knows" how to get to me and plays little mind games. Oh how this annoys me. I have a terrible temper and she does fear me when I blow a gasket but she sure seems to enjoy egging me on until I get to the boiling point. When it got to a screaming match one morning, she broke down and cried and said "I just want one nice morning".

She's difficult getting up in the mornings and moody like me in the morning. When I saw her cry, I cried too and said this has to stop. I told a friend at work I was having trouble with my daughter in the mornings and she suggested I tell her she is going to bed a half hour early if she is not up and dressed by a certain time in the morning. I know it sounds way too simple but I tried it and it seems to be working.

Even so, I have had to accept the fact that a large part of the problem is really me. I just need to have more self control and stick to my guns. When I remove a privilege I have to stick with it. It's hard to ignore her in the morning because I'm so emotional and impulsive (ADD myself) but I think that is what has to be done. I find that when I tell her I will not speak to her or respond to her until she is dressed that helps to. It's hard as heck for me but it's something else I'm trying.

I find that if I play into her games I end up screaming and yelling, but if I ignore them or calmly(and that's the ticket "calmly" say that there will be consequences for her bad behaviour, that seems to work when I stick to it. My problem is sticking to my guns and not blowing my cool.

So far we have started a good week, but with one bad morning I know how easily the cycle can start all over again. In my situation I think the problem was just as much me as her. Some mornings I have gone to work already exhausted. Right now I am just worn out from the fighting every morning and thanK GOD for the two good mornings we have had so far and both mornings I have kept my cool. I find that in my case I have to see it for what it is that it is not just my daughter but part of the problem is me.

I am currently in the process of trying to get my daughter scheduled for testing and that is exhausting in itself, just to get people to call me back. I don't have the money for it either but my parents are being gracious enough to lend me some because they are concerned about my daughter. I hate to borrow money but I don't have any other alternative. I don't want to go through the school because I don't want them dictating to me what has to be done with my child and/or forcing me to medicate her so I am doing this on my own and when I find out the results

I will do what I have to if the doctor feels she needs to be classified. I am hoping not as she is very bright and her main problem seems to be focusing and organization. She can also, like myself, be impulsive. I know it's going to be a long road with the testing and behavior modification programs I am looking into but I know it is all well worth it. I'm so glad for this board and all the great people and information.

I hope something someone may have said will help you. I know how frustrating it can be. Please hang in there and keep posting. I've had a couple of really bad weeks with my own daughter and can feel your frustration. Please don't give up though. I know things will get better as long as you keep seeking help. Even if you have to borrow some money to get the help you need, it will really be worth it in the end.

Hugs to you, Dee

LostOne,
Reading this six months-old thread I'm wondering how you are doing with your daughter now?

My heart goes out to you. I have great feelings of empathy for all kids that act out like this and how it affects their families.

Instead of deliberate acts of defiance it helped me cope by seeing that my daughter was just over the top with stimulus. I’m not saying kids don’t push our buttons to get their way that’s their job to find their/our limits.

I think what worked for me most often is a quick change of environment. When we were in a store I would try to find a quiet isle, put my face up to my daughter's and cup my hands around her face, like blinders, so she had no other stimulus and as quietly as possible try to 'talk her down' from her rages.

But the best results were when I could actually physically remove her from the store/building wherever we were, especially if it was dark outside she would calm down faster.

So maybe it's just my daughter but it really seemed to occur whenever she was just overwhelmed. As soon as she had my FULL attention she would calm down. Sometimes she would actually open up to me about what she wanted or what was bothering her. Most times I never knew the whys I could only cope with the outbursts as best that I could.

I'm hoping to read that you found a counselor or some other means of help that you can share with others.

My son is adhd/and bipolar. He has these rages, I have tried every parenting technique imaginable and read every book I can get my hands on to try to hellp him. REcently two good books with some good ideas are The Difficult Child and Challenging Children. They describe our children to a T and offer some insight into why they behave the way they do. It offers some good techniques to helping in similar situations. My son gets "focused " on wanting something and regardless of how many times I say no he persists, sometimes for DAYS!!! This is called "mission mode" and is a type of ocd, when the brain gets stuck on something and literaly they are unable to think of anything else. I read about it on one of my bipolar websites. The part of the brain (the prefontal cortex) that controls resoning does not function properly and they can not refocus. My son has the same violent rages for hours at a time, throwing, kicking, screaming, yelling etc...his look literally changes when he is like this, like a rabid dog of sorts. His face gets red, his lips swell, his eyes are huge and glazed. Then once its over, maybe hours later, its over and he is the sweetest child in the world. My son has destroyed so many things in our home in the middle of these rages. Your definitly not alone!!!

Run to your phone book right now, look up counseling and look for a sliding scale. Is there a Community Health Center? Ask them for a referral, or if they have in-house counseling services. There is low cost help available and it sounds like you really need it right now! I would look for family counseling to start- to get these power struggles under control.
Maybe you don't know the best way to disipline your child- well- okay- we are not born with this knowledge!!!!! So many people go through what you are experiencing, IT'S OKAY!!!!!!! It's a learning experience. You need support. I agree with Wheezie- your daughter feels safe enough to act this way with you because she knows you will still love her. You are being a great mom in trying to get help.
For me, personally, spanking makes me feel awful. What I have tried in the past in pulling (this was with my 4 yr old, so probably easier to do) him onto my lap and just holding him (almost in a restraint type fashion, but definitely with a hug there) deep breathes, and just holding him as tightly as I could. Not easy to do when you are mad as !@#$ I admit, but it did calm him down (took 15 minutes, but by that time I was calm as well).
She doesn't give a fig about the donuts, truly. Something else is going on. Consistency is SSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOO important for kids, it makes them feel stable. So if it means she misses her sleepover, then the next time you get to say "Remeber when you didn't get to go to Jessie's sleepover because of your behavior". Again, very hard to do. I wish you the very best!

I know your fustration, I too, have an 8 yr old daughter that does the same thing and I too reacted the way that you do, however, my mom in law sent me a book on how to effectively talk to your child and I started reading it last night and could hardly put it down. It took them 10 years to write it. I have already used one of the senereos this morning and it worked. She hates getting up for school and we ususally get into a shouting match and end up just like you, driving to work and to school in tears. This morning, I went to her and said it's time to get up and she of course was saying no, I'm tired, didn't get enough sleep and so on and so on. So, instead of getting worked up, I gently sat on the side of the bed and said I understand that you are tired, I am too. Maybe we should go to bed a little earlier from now on, on school nights, however, we both have to get work and school on time so that we won't get into trouble. Guess what, it worked! I just wish I had read that book 6 years ago.
The main point of the book is that children do not properly know how to convey thier feelings, we have to teach them. So, instead of yelling and screaming, you have to be a little more patient and let them know that you are listening to them and you understand thier frustrations. The wording in the book is awesome and it will make your life with your child much more pleasant! I will bring it tomorrow and give you the correct name but it is well worth the read! Thanks/Kathi

Water.
If you can put an overwrought child into the bath, they calm down. I've tried it. It works. Running water works even better if your child likes showers.
I have a native friend who told me that this is the traditional way to deal with tantruming kids; except that his dad used to drop him in the river! (grin)

"quote"... my downstairs neighbors finally made a complaint to the apartment manager and we got a write up for the noise. Three write ups mean automatic eviction. We had to move out of our last house mostly because of her tantrums. I picked her up from my mom's last night, and as we were coming up the stairs my daughter noticed the neighbors TV on and wanted to stop and apologize...

~~She is probably very attached to her home/room. Explain to her that you may lose your appartment because of the noise/screaming/banging etc, and that your next apartment would not be as nice becasue you would have to be away from everyone so that her noise won't disturb them.
Does she respond to humour? You could try whispering when she starts to get loud. Or put your finger to your lips and point to the neighbours, them tippy toe away. She may even laugh.
Her impulse to apologise to the neighbours is good. Maybe she could do it during the day time.

"quote"...This morning we were already battling so bad I wasn't even going to send her to school. She didn't want to put her shoes on, fine. Stay home. Be grounded all day, and miss the sleepover she's supposed to go to this weekend. I ended up driving her to school with both of us in tears...

~~Yes, fine.
No, not stay home, grounded etc.
Yes. Go without your shoes then. Who cares.
No fight. Shoes in back pack. Dirty socks. School is important. Shoes are not. She wants a fight. Choose your arguements, make them the important ones. She doesn't want to be different. She will probably have the shoes on by the time she gets out of the car. Say nothing when she puts them on. Her choice. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about this, this issue is between you and your child. My son could get stubborn about simple stuff like this, and he can waaaaayyyyy out stubborn me, so I learned to not go there. I had to learn to let go of the "what will people think" mindsset.


."Quote"...I want her to have a normal, happy life. I don't want her to grow up angry and depressed like me. She deserves better than that. I don't feel like I can give her the life she deserves...

~~She wants, needs and deserves to have you as her mom. You sound like a caring mom to me. Hang in there and keep trying, you've made it so far. Can you talk to your mom about how bad things really are? And how hard it is for you both with your boyfriend away? Meanwhile, take things one day at a time. Treat each other when you make it for one hour without fighting, one morning, eventually one day. Treat yourownself for hanging on to your temper. Little things like some goodie you keep just for that. It helps me!
Hugs to you while you weather this time.


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I need to learn more about this odd. My son is very adhd. Thing around my house have gotten so bad I can't leave him and his mother alone for more than 15 minutes at a time. If I do I come back to him being banashed to his room and destroying it, and my wife sitting on the couch bawling and saying our son hates her.

In my case I think some of the problem is my sons behavior issues and my wife also not willing to adapt to his differences. In my opinion I think my wife needs to learn how to deal with him better. When he gets wound up and acting out my wife seems to just fall into his trap. She starts yelling back and the war is on. I'm thinking of making them attend some counceling to try to get things under control.

Counciling is a good idea Okie. There are also some really good books out there, like

"The Challenging Child: Understanding, Raising & Enjoying the Five "Difficult" Types of Children"
Author: Stanley I. Greenspan

or

The Strong-Willed Child
Author: Dr.James Dobson

Thank you for the input rainraven. One of our biggest problems is we live in a small town. To get to any spacialists we would have to drive over 100 miles one way or the other.

Dear Lost One -

You are describing my daughter. I know what it feels like to constantly be faced with tantrums and defiance. The worst days are when I get hit with a tantrum, or have her badmouth me before it's even 7:00 in the morning. Those days I'm just delighted to come to work because it gets me away from her.

I found a lot of answers, and a lot of helpful techniques in the book "The Explosive Child", by Dr. Ross Greene. I'd highly recommend reading it - you will see that this is not your fault, but there are things you can do to make things a little better.

I can't type too much now - had surgery on left hand yesterday, but I'd be happy to talk to you more about my own defiant daughter - who I love desperately, but often do not like!

Good luck!