View Full Version : Do reputable studies on Desoxyn for ADD exist?


brianadhd
11-02-07, 11:23 PM
Having read so many positive experiences about Desoxyn and it's superiority for treating ADD with the least amount of side effects (here and on other ADD forums), and having tried Strattera, Methylphenidate, D-amp, Adderall, and now Vyvanse - all with varying degrees of positives and negs - I'd really like to give this med a try. We're all aware of how difficult it is to find a pdoc that will prescribe it due to the stigma associated with it's chemical name, or maybe because of their personal experience with treating patients, or ignorance of the medication itself. Since I also have social anxiety, my current pdoc wants to tackle that first and put the ADD on the backburner. Since that's not an option for me, we've decided to treat both.

I've read more than once that Desoxyn not only treats ADD effectively, but can also reduce anxiety and help with depression due to it's effect on serotonin. When I mentioned this, the response was "Desoxyn is the speediest" of all the stims, would make me more nervous than Adderall already does, and that it's basically "crystal meth", with a very high potential for abuse. I didn't feel like pointing out that Desoxyn was a single isomer, and not "crystal meth". I've changed pdocs twice in the past two months, and it seems they're all willing to write up a script for any SSRI, benzo, or other stimulant (he's aware I'm on Adderall, and wrote me the script for the free Vyvanse trial), but for some reason it seems Desoxyn is out of the question. By the way, out of the three pdocs, this was the first time I suggested it. Just wanted to clear that up, as the changes in docs were due to other reasons.

I do not have a history of drug abuse. I feel that being honest with pdocs is the best route and understand their fears of patients potentially abusing meds; so I answer honestly to all their street drug questions. I've experimented just like the majority of teens have, but no habits were ever formed. It just doesn't make sense why a similar drug with high abuse potential (i.e. d-amp) would be readily fine yet another would not. It's been my experience that when you start to sound a bit too educated about meds it triggers some psychiatrist red flag, and they begin the "there is no magic pill, you're doing yourself a diservice by reading all this misinformation on the internet" rant, whereby I start my "but I'm not looking for a magic pill, I'm interested in treating my illness with the most efficacy and least amount of side effects, and if there's a medication out there that"...and then, realizing the irony that I, the patient, is stating this...get slightly annoyed/frustrated and just nod OK. Futility.

So, for my sake as well as my next pdoc, I'd like to be armed with some reliable information. Any links to scientific studies performed by universities, researchers, doctors, or other reputable sources would be greatly appreciated. I don't think even a binder full of glowing Desoxyn reviews would convince most pdocs to "give it a try", sadly.

I found this on Wikipedia: "Further, because the secondary effects of dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride are least among the amphetamine-class stimulants or methylphenidate but the highest degree of primary effectiveness (i.e., most effective at enhancing concentration and decreasing distractibility, with the least occurrence of side effects), Desoxyn can be useful for patients who find other medications ineffective or for whom the side effects of such other medications are too severe."

Unfortunately, as helpful and informative Wikipedia can be, essentially anyone can edit the pages, and by virtue of that is an unreliable resource.

I'd really like to learn more about Desoxyn, and perhaps this post belongs in the research/scientific discussion forum, but I thought I'd start here. My Googles have yielded nil, so I seek the help of the board.

Matt S.
11-03-07, 01:07 PM
The only thing I could find was:

Recent work by Heimberger and colleagues[14] retrospectively describes the pattern of use for and effects of methamphetamine (mAMPH), or Desoxyn, on youth with ADHD. In this ADHD clinic, due to incomplete response to other stimulants, 14 youth out of 521 (2.7%) underwent treatment with mAMPH. At a mean dose of 7.5 mg/day most of these patients were noted to have short-term (n = 12) and long-term (duration, > 6 months; n = 5) improvements in cognition and behavior, although 1 patient experienced mild cognitive impairment during treatment. Although no cases of misuse or abuse of mAMPH occurred, given its high abuse liability, use in clinical practice is limited.
http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/4276_pnt

jeremynd
11-04-07, 11:46 AM
First of all great post. Just like you I have suffered from social anxiety my whole life which then has kicked in a little depression because of it. I have tried both Adderall XR and Methylphenitate and so far neither one compare to how much more normal of a person I felt when I had tried Methamphetamine a few times in my teen years. In my opinion what your doctor is saying is total BS. In my experience adderall is a hell of alot more potent/speedy than meth. When I had tried meth, my social anxiety was completely eliminated, I craved talking to people and felt happy.

Neither adderall or methylphenidate have done that for me. Sad but true...

I find alot of docs just talk out of there ***. For example, I had a doc once that tried to tell me that there is only 2 drugs available to treat add which are "Adderall and Ritalin". I knew that was a total lie....



I've read more than once that Desoxyn not only treats ADD effectively, but can also reduce anxiety and help with depression due to it's effect on serotonin. When I mentioned this, the response was "Desoxyn is the speediest" of all the stims, would make me more nervous than Adderall already does

JR1973
11-04-07, 12:30 PM
It's hard as hell to find anything done with Desoxyn. Medscape is an awesome source but has almost nothing. I've read in a few books about ADHD that say it's probably the most effective but least used medication.

I've asked a former doctor of mine about it and he had no clue what I was talking about. Wasn't even in his PDA that he checked on the spot.

Over at revolution health you can do a search on Desoxyn and the few that get to try it claim it's the holy grail. Apparently years ago there was a brand name extended release version that was supposed to be incredible.

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/ Just do a search on Desoxyn

http://www.askdrjones.com/2006/11/13/determining-the-best-stimulants/


J

brianadhd
11-04-07, 10:23 PM
Well, I found this:

"Pharmacotherapy of adult ADHD (http://doi.wiley.com/10.1002/jclp.20122)William W. Dodson. Private Practice ..... name of Desoxyn. Many clinicians believe methamphetamine to be the most effective. medication for the treatment of ..."

Which led to this link. William Dodson is a Adult ADD specialist, but it costs $25 to access the full text of this research article from Wiley.

Pharmacotherapy of adult ADHD
William W. Dodson *Private Practice
email: William W. Dodson (bdodson@pol.net)*Correspondence to William W. Dodson, 1777 South Harrison St., Suite 805, Denver, CO 80210

setDOI("ADOI=10.1002/jclp.20122")AbstractAlthough attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) has been officially recognized as persisting into adulthood for more than 25 years, only recently has the condition been studied in adults. There is great syndromatic continuity between childhood and adult ADHD, and thus much of the medication management of adults with ADHD can be based on the experience gained from treating children and adolescents. Stimulant medications remain the treatment of choice and are generally as effective in adults as they are in children. Several extended-release delivery systems that improve convenience and compliance have become available. Several second-line medications are also reviewed. The medications must be fine-tuned to the needs of the individual patient in regard to the dose and timing of dose that achieve optimal therapeutic benefit. Medication adjustment must be done by trial and error because no parameter yet identified predicts the molecule or dose that will provide optimal performance. 2005 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. J Clin Psychol/In Session 61: 589-606, 2005.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/109929606/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

trying
11-05-07, 07:43 PM
t's been my experience that when you start to sound a bit too educated about meds it triggers some psychiatrist red flag, and they begin the "there is no magic pill, you're doing yourself a diservice by reading all this misinformation on the internet" rant, whereby I start my "but I'm not looking for a magic pill, I'm interested in treating my illness with the most efficacy and least amount of side effects, and if there's a medication out there that"...and then, realizing the irony that I, the patient, is stating this...get slightly annoyed/frustrated and just nod OK. Futility.Sucks, doesn't it. I feel for you, man. Nevermind that the actual symptoms of ADD make it difficult to fully express oneself with these people in a clinical setting.

I should not require a permission slip from anyone to take anything whatsoever. My body, my mind. It's absolutely ridiculous that I can waltz down to the corner store and get a gallon of vodka, or some pure transdermal nicotine, but I must balance seals on my body while bicycling through flaming hoops in order to procure Nardil, or, for instance, find someone that will trial pramipexole for treatment-resistant depression and focus improvement.

QueensU_girl
11-05-07, 10:38 PM
Why does meth work better? More mood elevation? what is the dosing? I read once about a criminal (i'm from a prison town originally) who swallowed a dose of meth and it was 1 gram. (200x the dose size of Dexedrine that I take !!!).

Legal Amphetamines [only kinds i've tried; and only at Rx doses) are known to have some 'mood elevating' effects. (Can help depressives feel better. Yet they will elevate anyones mood, I understand.)

SOME Anxiety Disorder sufferers can become worse on stimulants, though, be warned. (e.g. stimulants can feel like a panic attack, etc.)

I found it made mine better though, as I can now think my way thru stressful situations better. Improved problem solving etc.

QueensU_girl
11-05-07, 10:42 PM
Meds don't overcome everything, keep in mind.

e.g. if you have Deficits in Executive Function, Meds won't help that.

People here complain about this all the time!

You may just be waiting for the panacea (pill that will "solve all your problems") -- that doesn't exist.

Exec Function Impairment is a HUGE part _of_ 'Attention Deficit' problems (esp, in "adult life".)

brianadhd
11-05-07, 10:48 PM
speaking of nardil, are you on it for social anxiety? i do not know much about it other than its an maoi, has a bad rep due to diet restrictions, but very useful for SA.

Iamscattered
11-12-07, 06:39 PM
Below is a description of Executive Function. I don't mean to start an argument, I don't have the interest or the expertise to participate. I just want to respectfully disagree in my own case, AD/HD meds have helped me with many of these Executive Function issues, and to a remarkable degree. But it is true, as far as I know the meds may not work this way for most people. I would suggest anyone interested take a look and think about whether their AD/HD meds are helping with these issues.


Published in CHADD's ATTENTION Magazine, February 2002

Components of Executive Function
Based upon material from Barkley and Brown, I have outlined five general components of executive function that impact school performance:

Working memory and recall (holding facts in mind while manipulating information; accessing facts stored in long-term memory.)
Activation, arousal, and effort (getting started; paying attention; finishing work)
Controlling emotions (ability to tolerate frustration; thinking before acting or speaking)
Internalizing language (using "self-talk" to control one's behavior and direct future actions)
Taking an issue apart, analyzing the pieces, reconstituting and organizing it into new ideas (complex problem solving).
Let's take a more in-depth look at just one element of executive function-deficits in working memory and recall-and their impact on school work.

Poor Working Memory and Recall


Affects the here and now:
a. limited working memory capacity
b. weak short-term memory (holding information in mind for roughly twenty seconds;capacity-roughly the equivalent of seven numbers)
c. forgetfulness-can't keep several things in mind
As a result, students:
- have difficulty remembering and following instructions.
- have difficulty memorizing math facts, spelling words, and dates.
- have difficulty performing mental computation such as math in one's head.
- forget one part of a problem while working on another segment.
- have difficulty paraphrasing or summarizing.
Affects their sense of past events:
a. difficulty recalling the past
As a result, students:
- do not learn easily from past behavior (limited hindsight).
- repeat misbehavior.
Affects their sense of time:
a. difficulty holding events in mind
b. difficulty using their sense of time to prepare for upcoming events and the future
As a result, students:
- have difficulty judging the passage of time accurately.
- do not accurately estimate how much time it will take to finish a task; consequently, they may not allow enough time to complete work.
Affects their sense of self-awareness:
a. diminished sense of self-awareness
As a result, students:
- do not easily examine or change their own behavior.
Affects their sense of the future:
a. students live in the present-focus on the here and now
b. less likely to talk about time or plan for the future
As a result, students:
- have difficulty projecting lessons learned in the past, forward into the future (limited foresight).
- have difficulty preparing for the future.

lars
12-03-07, 12:48 AM
Why does meth work better? More mood elevation? what is the dosing? I read once about a criminal (i'm from a prison town originally) who swallowed a dose of meth and it was 1 gram. (200x the dose size of Dexedrine that I take !!!).Implying that Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine or desoxyphedrine depending on the country) is methamphetamine, is like implying that Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) is methylphenidate, or that Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) is amphetamine. Actually, each of these brand name drugs mentioned are just the dextro isomers of their respective racemic parent molecules.

The racemic molecules that preceeded them (methamphetamine, amphetamine, & methylphenidate) also contain a levo isomer which in each case is notorious for unwanted PNS (peripheral nervous system) side effects for most people (not all). Granted we each can and do respond to these things in our own way, so what works best for one does not always work best for all.

Anyhoot, I suspect that you probably know all this already and may have not meant it as it was typed, so I am mostly typing this post up for anyone reading this thread who might not know that there is actually quite a difference between the racemic drugs vs the single isomer drugs that followed them. I have found the difference to be a stark one.

flatlinez
12-31-07, 02:26 AM
brianadhd: I looked up that article and it didn't have anything more than the one sentence or two mentioning Desoxyn and how its abuse potential limits the usefulness.

Perhaps calling Ovation Pharma might expose

flatlinez
12-31-07, 02:27 AM
a thorough search on scholar.google.com may be of use.

Greasya1
01-13-08, 01:01 AM
We all where born with this trying disability and only filing a chass action Federal case will the God complex Doctors stop treating us like where drug seeking and know where health seeking and Desoxyn is the only medication that helps and is not addicting or any side effects. It is just if you control what you put in your body and get only it benefits or you let it control you just mind over body. To gether we will win a long we get discriminated by our health care provider I a disable Marine I don't know what it is to loose **** the doctors I know what works best in my body I sure not taking mind numing drug that they think they can make their pupet not taking active role in my health care. Greasya1 Fight for our rights to gether they got treat like human being!!!

lars
01-13-08, 01:45 AM
Thank you for your service to our country Greasya1.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion concerning the addictive nature of Desoxyn, however as moderator of this forum it's important for me to point out that this perhaps reflects your own personal experience with Desoxyn.

The thing is that Desoxyn is actually both addictive, and for many people it has plenty of side effects. I am not one of those people fortunately, but I certainly know enough about this to assure you that they do exist.

My experience with Desoxyn has been much more in line with yours concerning its addictive nature and its side effects.

I'm thankful that we live in a country where Dr's and their patients are still allowed access to as many different kinds of medication as there are for this condition.

Desoxyn is only prescribed in the USA & Chile. I'm grateful to have freedoms like this one that have been protected over & over again by service people like yourself.

SEMPER FI!

Fuse
02-29-08, 06:57 AM
Implying that Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine or desoxyphedrine depending on the country) is methamphetamine, is like implying that Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) is methylphenidate, or that Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) is amphetamine. Actually, each of these brand name drugs mentioned are just the dextro isomers of their respective racemic parent molecules.

The racemic molecules that preceeded them (methamphetamine, amphetamine, & methylphenidate) also contain a levo isomer which in each case is notorious for unwanted PNS (peripheral nervous system) side effects for most people (not all). Granted we each can and do respond to these things in our own way, so what works best for one does not always work best for all.

Actually, in Ritalin it is the dextro-rotatory isomer which produces more PNS stimulation (due to increased norepinephrine), not the laevo isomer.

In many people, norepinephrine (the PNS stimulating agent) is more desired than dopamine. E.g. Strattera, which is solely norepinephrine reuptake inhibiting.

Dextro-methamphetamine isn't drastically different to laevo-meth. Both are significant dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin releasing agents and minor reuptake inhibitors, compared to amphetamine which is a powerful reuptake inhibitor and minor releasing agent, and both have higher potential for abuse than normal amphetamine... when used recreationally, of course. Any typical racemic used recreationally is 50/50 dextro/laevo. So it's not a stretch to extrapolate racemic meth findings to d-meth.

Also, I've heard that meth is only suggested for use for the short-term, probably not least of all because it is neurotoxic and causes brain cell degeneration. Meth tolerance is more common and rapid than amphetamine tolerance (supposedly due in part to its neurotoxicity).

Just offering the other side of the coin. I know meth has a stigma, but it's one that's well earned; be careful not to write it off as anti-stimulant nonsense.

ozchris
02-29-08, 07:29 AM
I wouldn't call Desoxyn 'speedy' in my experience. Just to get this straight: I wasn't prescribed it and this was a long time ago before I was diagnosed and legally treated. I'm not proud about it.

The dose I took was therapeutic; not recreational. 5mg going up to 10mg twice a day for a few weeks..I found it very relaxing and it calmed my mind down, no anxiety or harsh side effects. It made me a little sleepy so 'speedy' would be the last thing I'd call it. It worked really well and I didn't get high or crash out from it.

Again.. this was from a long time ago and I'm not proud or don't recommend anyone doing it:
Comparing it to illegal street methamphetamine that I washed in acetone to get rid of (most) impurities - The cleaned up street meth was much 'speedier' and harsh on my body. It was uncomfortable and much much different than the offical Desoxyn branded tablets. This was around the same dose as well.

I'm not saying Desoxyn is safe or it's good for doctors to use it - I don't know enough about it.

Fuse
03-01-08, 09:58 AM
Well I'm on 5mg dexamphetamine twice a day. I tried 10mg in one dose to see how it would effect me. It made me slugish, 'tired', withdrawn, slightly irritable. All fairly mild of course.

So I guess a lot of the stereotypical effects and side-effects are dependent on the dose you take.

theta
03-02-08, 02:21 AM
Dextro-methamphetamine isn't drastically different to laevo-meth.

In the US you can walk into any pharmacy and buy 50 mg of levomethamphetamine for $3 cash and carry. It is drastically different than
d-meth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levomethamphetamine
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=Vicks+Inhaler.&scoring=p


Any typical racemic used recreationally is 50/50 dextro/laevo. So it's not a stretch to extrapolate racemic meth findings to d-meth.

The bulk of the US illegal methamphetamine supply is from pseudoephedrine bought in India or China and reduced in Mexico or a lessor extend in the US. The product is mostly d-meth.


Also, I've heard that meth is only suggested for use for the short-term, probably not least of all because it is neurotoxic and causes brain cell degeneration. Meth tolerance is more common and rapid than amphetamine tolerance (supposedly due in part to its neurotoxicity).

Just offering the other side of the coin. I know meth has a stigma, but it's one that's well earned; be careful not to write it off as anti-stimulant nonsense.

The studies showing neurotoxicity of meth are high dose studies. There is a low typical dose study of ADHD drugs showing neurotoxicity. So its likely a proportional risk of most stimulants.

Fuse
03-02-08, 10:36 AM
In the US you can walk into any pharmacy and buy 50 mg of levomethamphetamine for $3 cash and carry. It is drastically different than
d-meth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levomethamphetamine
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=Vicks+Inhaler.&scoring=p



The bulk of the US illegal methamphetamine supply is from pseudoephedrine bought in India or China and reduced in Mexico or a lessor extend in the US. The product is mostly d-meth.

Crap, you're entirely correct. I had a massive brain fart on that one; I should have actually been aware that l-meth isn't as potent since it's the reason people swallow the swabs in Vix vapour drops thingos. I apologise, lars.

The studies showing neurotoxicity of meth are high dose studies. There is a low typical dose study of ADHD drugs showing neurotoxicity. So its likely a proportional risk of most stimulants.

Yeah the studies were performed for high doses and recreational doses, I think. I haven't seen any for therapeutic amounts, but considering that many people on amphetamine end up imbibing recreational levels, as per doctor's orders, and meth also produces tolerance like amphetamine, I think it needs to be pointed out.

Wait, are you saying neurotoxicity has been shown in therapeutic amounts too? That would be disturbing.

The risk is not there for amphetamine, methylphenidate (I know it doesn't exist for cocaine, even when abused, for instance) as far as I am aware. Ecstasy and meth (and supposedly other substituted amphetamines) cause neurotoxicity because of some sort of interaction with free radicals and dopamine, from memory. Perhaps it's to do with the fact that amphetamine is only a mild dopamine releasing agent, (tending to favour blocking reuptake instead) whilst for meth it is the reverse?

qinkin
03-03-08, 05:05 PM
I think Desoxyn lasts longer... it felt like it's working longer. .

it's been 6 months since I've experienced Desoxyn.. long story..

Desoxyn also has a reptuation of having much less side-effects than Adderall..

At least maybe, side effects but not as strong/expressed.

theta
03-04-08, 07:25 AM
Wait, are you saying neurotoxicity has been shown in therapeutic amounts too? That would be disturbing.

The risk is not there for amphetamine, methylphenidate (I know it doesn't exist for cocaine, even when abused, for instance) as far as I am aware. Ecstasy and meth (and supposedly other substituted amphetamines) cause neurotoxicity because of some sort of interaction with free radicals and dopamine, from memory. Perhaps it's to do with the fact that amphetamine is only a mild dopamine releasing agent, (tending to favour blocking reuptake instead) whilst for meth it is the reverse?

Only one study I'm aware of showed therapeutic amounts of ADHD drugs causing measurable neurotoxicity. But as you mentioned dopamine itself can oxidize to a neurotoxin. Studies with MAO-B inhibitors that prevent the oxidation of dopamine blocked the production of that neurotoxin. So in theory
any dopamine elevating drug may pose some risk over a range of doses. Its
complex and Meth and MDMA may very well be more neurotoxic for various reasons. Small increases in body temperature and/or ambient temperature has been observed to increase neurotoxicity. Both Meth and MDMA can increase body temperture. A lot of common substance may block the neurotoxic effects of various stimulants. I mention several in this thread:

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48296

Fuse
03-04-08, 08:32 AM
Hmm. Indeed.

I was fairly sure that I read the neurotoxicity of meth and MDMA were unique to those drugs, however; cocaine, methylphenidate, amphetamine, etc don't actually do the things that cause the free radicals to destroy dopamine/serotonin production, IIRC.

Will have to keep an eye out for studies on it.

theta
03-04-08, 01:48 PM
.

I was fairly sure that I read the neurotoxicity of meth and MDMA were unique to those drugs, however; cocaine, methylphenidate, amphetamine, etc don't actually do the things that cause the free radicals to destroy dopamine/serotonin production, IIRC.



Cocaine is neurotoxic though perhaps by other mechanisms.

1: Neurochem Res. 2006 Mar;31(3):303-11.
Links
Attenuation of cocaine and methamphetamine neurotoxicity by coenzyme Q10.
Klongpanichapak S, Govitrapong P, Sharma SK, Ebadi M.

Department of Pharmacology, Physiology and Therapeutics, School of Medicine & Health Sciences, University of North Dakota, 501 North Columbia Road, Grand Forks, ND, 58203, USA.

The neurotoxic effects of cocaine and methamphetamine (METH) were studied in mice brain with a primary objective to determine the neuroprotective potential of coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) in drug addiction. Repeated treatment of cocaine or METH induced significant reduction in the striatal dopamine and CoQ10 in mice. Cocaine or METH-treated mice exhibited increased thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARs) in the striatum and cerebral cortex without any significant change in the cerebellum. Complex I immunoreactivity was inhibited in both cocaine and METH-treated mice, whereas tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) immunoreactivity was decreased in METH-treated mice and increased in cocaine-treated mice. Neither cocaine nor METH could induce significant change in alpha-synuclein expression at the doses and duration we have used in the present study. CoQ10 treatment attenuated cocaine and METH-induced inhibition in the striatal 18F-DOPA uptake as determined by high-resolution microPET neuroimaging. Hence exogenous administration of CoQ10 may provide neuroprotection in drug addiction.

PMID: 16733807 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: J Neurosci. 2006 Nov 8;26(45):11522-31.
Links
Cocaine increases the intracellular calcium concentration in brain independently of its cerebrovascular effects.
Du C, Yu M, Volkow ND, Koretsky AP, Fowler JS, Benveniste H.

Medical Department, Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, New York 11973-5000, USA. congwu@bnl.gov

Cocaine abuse increases the risk of life-threatening neurological complications such as strokes and seizures. Although the vasoconstricting properties of cocaine underlie its cerebrovascular effects, the mechanisms underlying its neurotoxicity remain incompletely understood. Here, we use optical techniques to measure cerebral blood volume, hemoglobin oxygenation (S(t)O(2)), and intracellular calcium ([Ca(2+)](i)) to test the hypothesis that cocaine increases [Ca(2+)](i) in the brain. The effects of cocaine were compared with those of methylphenidate, which has similar catecholaminergic effects as cocaine (except for serotonin increases) but no local anesthetic properties, and of lidocaine, which has similar local anesthetic effects as cocaine but is devoid of catecholaminergic actions. To control for the hemodynamic effects of cocaine, we assessed the effects of cocaine in animals in which normal blood pressure was maintained by infusion of phenylephrine, and we also measured the effects of transient hypotension (mimicking that induced by cocaine). We show that cocaine induced significant increases ( approximately 10-15%) in [Ca(2+)](i) that were independent of its hemodynamic effects and of the anesthetic used (isofluorance or alpha-chloralose). Lidocaine but not methylphenidate also induced significant [Ca(2+)](i) increases ( approximately 10-13%). This indicates that cocaine at a dose within the range used by drug users significantly increases the [Ca(2+)](i) in the brain and its local anesthetic, but neither its catecholaminergic nor its hemodynamic actions, underlies this effect. Cocaine-induced [Ca(2+)](i) increases are likely to accentuate the neurotoxic effects from cocaine-induced vasoconstriction and to facilitate the occurrence of seizures from the catecholaminergic effects of cocaine. These findings support the use of calcium channel blockers as a strategy to minimize the neurotoxic effects of cocaine.

PMID: 17093073 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

tambourine-man
05-22-11, 03:29 PM
I think stimulants help me MOST in areas of executive functioning as you described them.

dominil
11-16-11, 01:57 AM
So i looked for information on like a million different scientific article databases. And i found about nothing. I looked through pubmed, medline, sciencedirect, Cochrane Library, Sage Journals.... i could go on and on. Also i tried to find further information through drug databases such as lexicomp, drug facts and comparisons, micromedex and have had little luck other than the basic stuff everyone already knows.

Soooo i decided to email lundbeck(current manufacture of desoxyn) I requested information pertaining to effectiveness and safety of desoxyn in regards to ADHD.
So if they respond i will keep you guys posted. :)

dominil
11-17-11, 06:52 PM
so they emailed me back and gave me a little more info but its nothing great. It is just outlining the results of the 8 week and 31 week clinical trails.

I would post it but there is a bunch of stuff about this was given to me as a professional courtesy and should not be shared blah blah blah.

8-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel, multicenter study

I will outline what it said though study was of 127 patients. They started on 5mg/day and titrated upward every few days until clinical benefit or adverse events. The maximum dose reached was 40mg. The mean dose was 0.65mg/kg/day.

Parent, teacher, and Physician rating were all statistically significantly better than the placebo group at every rating(week2,4,6,8)

Statistically, but not clinically, the mean pulse rate increased. There was NO statistically or clinically significant changes in Blood Pressure(both diastolic and systolic). Also no Lab abnormalities.

Side effects:
insomnia in 30 patients, anorexia in 18. All others only happened in 1-3 patients. Most side effects were mild and subsided, with or without dose decrease.

No one dropped out of the 8 week study.


The 31 week study.
1 person dropped out due to headache, insomnia, anorexia, and irritability.

Side effects: 17 insomnia, 13 anorexia, 5 headache

Efficacy rates remained high.
The meth induced weight loss did not continue.
Heart rate remained increased but was not clinically significant still.


The rest of it is just about diagnosis for adhd and also abuse(all it says is meth is very abused and alot of people do it. but the majority of abused meth is not commercial meth.)


Overall not to much info, but its better than nothing

tambourine-man
11-18-11, 04:00 AM
so they emailed me back and gave me a little more info but its nothing great. It is just outlining the results of the 8 week and 31 week clinical trails.

I would post it but there is a bunch of stuff about this was given to me as a professional courtesy and should not be shared blah blah blah.

8-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel, multicenter study

I will outline what it said though study was of 127 patients. They started on 5mg/day and titrated upward every few days until clinical benefit or adverse events. The maximum dose reached was 40mg. The mean dose was 0.65mg/kg/day.

Parent, teacher, and Physician rating were all statistically significantly better than the placebo group at every rating(week2,4,6,8)

Statistically, but not clinically, the mean pulse rate increased. There was NO statistically or clinically significant changes in Blood Pressure(both diastolic and systolic). Also no Lab abnormalities.

Side effects:
insomnia in 30 patients, anorexia in 18. All others only happened in 1-3 patients. Most side effects were mild and subsided, with or without dose decrease.

No one dropped out of the 8 week study.


The 31 week study.
1 person dropped out due to headache, insomnia, anorexia, and irritability.

Side effects: 17 insomnia, 13 anorexia, 5 headache

Efficacy rates remained high.
The meth induced weight loss did not continue.
Heart rate remained increased but was not clinically significant still.


The rest of it is just about diagnosis for adhd and also abuse(all it says is meth is very abused and alot of people do it. but the majority of abused meth is not commercial meth.)


Overall not to much info, but its better than nothing

Thank you VERY much for your efforts. This is very insightful. Good lookin' out!

Bouncingoffwall
11-23-11, 03:50 PM
I think stimulants help me MOST in areas of executive functioning as you described them.

As long as you're hitting the correct amount of stimulation in the bell curve - too little does nothing and too much gets you high and DECREASES concentration, motivation, etc.