I've been looking at the possibility of suffering from ADHD Inattentive Type or SCT, but I'm a major sceptic since nowadays everyone gets diagnosed with ADHD. I show about 90% of all symptoms of ADHD Inattentive Type and 100% of those of SCT.

The thing that makes it quite doubtful though is that learning issues have only started to arise when I was 14. Before that I got excellent grades even though I was never able to pay much attention in class. I always had to learn a lot at home and I got excellent results until 3th grade of highschool. Starting then, no matter how much I learned at home everyone got higher results despire learning a lot less than me. I should also note that I was motivated for school until 13 (little concentration though). Then all of a sudden it all got downhill (no motivation + concentration).

Other than that, all symptoms have applied to me all my life. Should I just go to a psychologist to get diagnosed and assume that learning wasn't an issue because I could easily not pay attention in class and still get high results? I've always had to learn twice as much to get the same result as others and it's killing me now I'm in my first year of college. It's impossible to keep up, I have no motivation and it takes 2 hours to learn 12 pages. I will definately fail that way.

My story is very much the same and I am quite confident that my ADHD diagnosis is correct. I think environmental factors play a big part in your performance in school as well. When I was very young I was a terrific student, always quiet, always paying attention, always eager to impress my teachers...

My time in therapy has taught me that even at this young age my wanting to impress teachers and do well was something of a coping mechanism--my parents were not very present in my life and I felt that the only way I could survive was to sort of be my own parent. In a way I just kind of disciplined myself...and then as I grew more jaded and more relaxed in my environment everything just kind of fell apart.

BethanyBez, do you happen to have any social problems? For me it's almost impossible to make new friends. All the friends I currently have hated me at first but after a couple of months we got closer. I always have to be forced with people for a couple of weeks to become friends which is not that easy in college.

I never realised I was anti-social in primary school until I saw my old friends after 6 years, and they said some bad things about me, how I was always quiet and such. Even in the first few years of highschool, I wasn't familiar with the social norms. When someone said hi to me (from a distance) I didn't realize I had to wave or say something back. Now things are quite a bit better but I still have difficulty expressing myself and doing smalltalk, since I'm a slow thinker and have to think what to say. Also, my vocabulary sucks, I talk like a 12-year old (my native language is dutch btw).

I was PAINFULLY shy until high school. I think it was then that I learned how to make my ADD work for me--ADDers can be very funny/fun to be around...but I have definitely rubbed some people the wrong way as I'm impulsive and tend to dominate conversations.

I think a lot of people here have had difficulty making friends, etc.--it is more difficult for anyone with mental or emotional "disorders."

Both my siblings have ADD and my brother has a very difficult time expressing himself. He does everything very slowly and his motor skills are lacking. It's very different from me, where I do everything fast, fast, fast! There are many different forms ADD can take.

Most thing go really slow for me (ie learning, reacting to something, moving, answering a question, retrieving information from my memory) but there are some things I do a lot faster than other people (playing videogames, browsing the internet) and get annoyed when I watch them doing it so slow. Could that exclude the possibility of having ADD? I would assume that ADD'ers either do everything slow or really fast, not both.

Not true that people with ADD do things either slow or fast. My brother is a video game GENIUS. He could truly be a professional gamer. He is also very big on the internet and is an excellent chess player. In a lot of ways his mind works slowly (not that he's stupid, just contemplative) and in other ways it works very fast.

You sound a lot like him.

I never thought it was possible for me, but I just got diagnosed with ADHD in September. I had no problems with learning issues or anything like that. I never cracked a book in high school. College...that's the earliest I can see myself having a problem. As of 2006 I've had 7 majors in 4 years..basically what I told my psychiatrist is once a major loses it's interest and I think I'm gonna actually have to "work" to get my degree; I'm not so much interested anymore. I didn't even go to the Dr because of that. I originally went because my mom and sister have bipolar...I have alot of things in my past, so I thought it could be because of that. Everything seems to be coming together now though, especially since I seem to be getting this medication thing under control.I've been looking at the possibility of suffering from ADHD Inattentive Type or SCT, but I'm a major sceptic since nowadays everyone gets diagnosed with ADHD. I show about 90% of all symptoms of ADHD Inattentive Type and 100% of those of SCT.
The thing that makes it quite doubtful though is that learning issues have only started to arise when I was 14. Before that I got excellent grades even though I was never able to pay much attention in class. I always had to learn a lot at home and I got excellent results until 3th grade of highschool. Starting then, no matter how much I learned at home everyone got higher results despire learning a lot less than me. I should also note that I was motivated for school until 13 (little concentration though). Then all of a sudden it all got downhill (no motivation + concentration).

Other than that, all symptoms have applied to me all my life. Should I just go to a psychologist to get diagnosed and assume that learning wasn't an issue because I could easily not pay attention in class and still get high results? I've always had to learn twice as much to get the same result as others and it's killing me now I'm in my first year of college. It's impossible to keep up, I have no motivation and it takes 2 hours to learn 12 pages. I will definately fail that way.

So does medication make that much of a difference? If I could feel and think and socialize like everyone else I could finally get rid of my depression. 1,5 years ago I took Ritalin during my exams to be better able to learn and whenever I think about that short period, I remember it as the best two weeks of the past two years. I just felt so great back then. That's definately not a good thing. If only there was something to change all that, I feel like I'm about to explode any minute now.

Strange thing is, I took Ritalin for 3 weeks this year (not during exams) and it didn't change all that much. That was in the most depressing period of my life though, so that might explain it. I can only wonder what it would feel like to be a normal person (socially and motivation wise). I just know that I would do anything to reach that point.

Thanks for the replies, I'll make an appointment with a psychologist asap. Should I mention that I suspect it's ADD or should I let him/her figure it out? I'm inclined to do the first but then again I'm too affraid I'll get diagnosed with something that doesn't really make any sense. Like Asperger's for example, I once suspected it could be that but my main (only) humor is sarcasm so it can't be that.

For me the meds have openned the door and made it easier, but I've still got to find the motivation to do things. Like my room for instance...I've been meaning to clean it for 5 months now. In that time I've been diagnosed with ADHD and started medication and even cleaned the kitchen top to bottom...reorganizing spices n everything, but my room...nope. I'm not sure what it is about my room, but I just can't find the motivation.

There are things I can do now that require attention, like studying, that I used to start and never really back to. It's weird...it's actually fun to read about the Principles of Property & Casualty Insurance. I dunno it's like the most boring things in the world to me have become interesting.

I'm not gonna lie it's not all peaches n cream. I've been on this medication since September of this year and it's just now starting to work and not effect my life with side effects. Alot of the things I read on here people are on very long roads to finding the right medication..and it's frustrating, especially when it doesn't work the first time. I also found a whole new set of emotions to deal with once I started taking stimulants.

You could look through my posts on here and see some of my frustrations. Socially, the meds have been a gift. My co-workers actually like me now. One actually had the nerve to say to me "You know...I used to not like you, but now your nice to hang out with." At first I wasn't sure whether to be offended or not, but I realized that I was an irritating person lol

Anyway, I got off on a tangent lol It's been 14 hours since I had my meds this morning, so it's wearing off lol

Sorry it's so long....I blame the meds wearing off....

Thanks for the replies, I'll make an appointment with a psychologist asap. Should I mention that I suspect it's ADD or should I let him/her figure it out? I'm inclined to do the first but then again I'm too affraid I'll get diagnosed with something that doesn't really make any sense. Like Asperger's for example, I once suspected it could be that but my main (only) humor is sarcasm so it can't be that.
HA! I missed the last part of your post. From my understanding I'm not sure a psychologist is going to be able to precribe you any medications. I see a psychiatrist..I see him once a month...to get my scrip and talk for about an hour. I had to fill out a questionaire they sent me in the mail...it took about 6 weeks for me to get in to see him. I made it a point to fill out the questionaire as soon as I got it, because I have the habit of alwyas feeling better when it's time to go to the doctor. He read over that and talked to me for almost 2 hours before deciding. My only fear was having Bipolar....the thought of ADHD never crossed my mind. Actually, I swore I was gonna walk out with a diagnosis of bipolar or he was going to stick me in the crazy house. *shrugs* I'm real good about letting doctors do their thing, but if he ssays something besides add you could always ask him why he thinks that above something else...
Hey I never thought ADHD made sense for me either, but come to find out I think he might of been right lol

Stabby,

I used to be scared to mention to a psychiatrist what my suspiscions were, but I think it does make it easier for them...and you...you don't want to be misdiagnosed. I was misdiagnosed so many times...the whole time I knew deep down that I had ADHD but I didn't want to say anything because I didn't want to be that annoying patient that's diagnosing themself, you know? It was a stupid fear that I had to put behind me.

When you go see a psychiatrist just keep in mind that you may have to see a few before you find one that works for you. If they only seem to want to talk to you for five minutes before they're trying to prescribe you something and get you out the door that's a bad sign. They need to do a full evaluation.

How do you know if you "do" or "do not" have all the symptoms and signs, if you have never been "tested"?

Get tested?

PS ADD can come out more at puberty, due to how school formats "change" as kids age and enter high school, etc..

High school means kids lose the handholding they get in lower grades, AND they must self-regulate (often means ADDers fail) AND the kids must start to make transitions on their own (classroom changes; lockers; hallways; remember homework).

All situations in which ADDers tend to bomb academically.

How do you know if you "do" or "do not" have all the symptoms and signs, if you have never been "tested"?

Get tested?

That's why I made this topic, to ask if I should get tested. I have all the symptoms I see listed on the net and an online test said I'm highly probable to have ADHD Inattentive Type. I'm definately not gonna rely on that though.

Not to cause waves or anything, but I've never been "tested" for adhd. Unless talking to my psychiatrist for 3 hours before he handed me a script counts as testing...*shrugs* I just made a post in another thread about this lol...I thought it was weird at first seeing as most everyone here talks about being tested...Whatever he's doing is working, so I'm not gonna poke a stick in that hole.

I don't think you should fully rely on that and go get an actual diagnosis.

Are reading problems also considered an ADD symptom? When I read I always get lost at the middle of a paragraf and have to start reading the paragraf all over again. Also I always forget most of an article after I finish reading it. I read a couple of pages and I'm unable to tell what it's all about. Same goes for learning, I learn a page and while I'm learning the next I can't remember a thing about the previous one.

I have not had much problems with school results in primary school either - it came naturally and I never had to make an effort. Point is, the more intelligent someone with ADD is, the later in your school career you "hit the wall". At first you can sort of freewheel, but once you have to actually start paying attention to what the teacher says or to what's in your study books, problems start.
I did have all the (ADD/SCT) symptoms as a 6 yr old though: inattentive, dreamy, shy, forgetful, socially anxious etc. How were you in that respect at that age?

I got diagnosed with severe ADHD-PI (ADD) with no impulsive/hyperactive symptoms (i.e. SCT) recently, and that was confirmed when I started seeing another psychiatrist.

So yeah, it is possible to have ADD, even with all markers on max, when you were able to get good results until a certain age. Much also depends on other factors like IQ, school, home situation, or other coping skills you might have.

I would not worry too much that you would be diagnosed with something that you're not. I should mention that you experience attention problems and that you think that it might be ADD, and if he or she is any good they will figure out what's bothering you.
I would definitely go see a professional for diagnosis. Things can only get better.

it may help to go in with a list of your actions and emotions that are bothering you, and how they impact your life. that helped my doc and i quite a bit, to narrow down the list of what's going on. i also did mention that i wanted to be tested for ADHD, and explained why (in my case it was after i was told my job was on the line, that i panicked, called my uncle to vent, who then told me he had ADHD and my issues sounded very similar to his, and then i read Driven to Distraction, which made me cry).


it sounds like you have very similar symptoms as the rest of us...it's well worth looking into.

I've been looking at the possibility of suffering from ADHD Inattentive Type or SCT, but I'm a major sceptic since nowadays everyone gets diagnosed with ADHD. I show about 90% of all symptoms of ADHD Inattentive Type and 100% of those of SCT.

The thing that makes it quite doubtful though is that learning issues have only started to arise when I was 14. Before that I got excellent grades even though I was never able to pay much attention in class. I always had to learn a lot at home and I got excellent results until 3th grade of highschool. Starting then, no matter how much I learned at home everyone got higher results despire learning a lot less than me. I should also note that I was motivated for school until 13 (little concentration though). Then all of a sudden it all got downhill (no motivation + concentration).

Other than that, all symptoms have applied to me all my life. Should I just go to a psychologist to get diagnosed and assume that learning wasn't an issue because I could easily not pay attention in class and still get high results? I've always had to learn twice as much to get the same result as others and it's killing me now I'm in my first year of college. It's impossible to keep up, I have no motivation and it takes 2 hours to learn 12 pages. I will definately fail that way.

You most probably certainly do have ADHD. I was also like that; I got by on natural intelligence till year 10 (while not paying a dot of attention in class), when I had to start studying.

People with ADHD can still be naturally intelligent, you know? The bit I bolded reads as: "I can't have ADHD because I'm smart." In fact studies suggest those with ADHD on average are smarter than the norm.

In fact studies suggest those with ADHD on average are smarter than the norm.

Although I would really like to believe that, I think studies actually suggest that there is no apparent link between ADHD and IQ.

Its incredible how many of us went through nearly exactly the same story...
I was an absolute beast in early high school, even though I did absolutely no work. I was pretty much fine up till senior year, and even then problems we're minor. I got into a top college, and then my life went to hell...the fact that I couldn't concentrate to save my life really hit then. Thankfully, I was diagnosed with ADHD inattentive a couple of months back, and now I'm hoping I can get my life in order again...
I didn't think I could possibly have ADHD at all until my roommate, who was a psych major, told me that he was pretty damn confident that there was no way I could be so impatient, fidgety, and unable to concentrate without it. I went to my school psychologist, told him about my roommate suspicions, and now hopefully I can figure my life out, although for the time being meds seem to be incredibly useless.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the feedback. I really appreciate it though I'm not that sure anymore I have ADD. I do have most of the symptoms but there are still some differences. I'm not at all creative unlike all of you, and I did learn a lot when my grades at school were still great (though learning always went slow).

Anyhow, I went to a psychologist and went through a couple of tests for ADD, but it all felt a bit amateurish. She didn't ask any questions, I just had to tell my story and so I forgot to tell a lot of my complaints. She doesn't know anything about my childhood either, so there's quite a lack of information. I just hope I don't get diagnosed with depression since that doesn't explain everything. I told her that I'm rather frustrated than depressed and that it's the consequence of my symptoms rather than cause. Fortunately she agreed and admitted I don't look depressed at all.

There were also some tests for attention/concentration and IQ. I don't have the results yet, but I do know that my working memory is really really bad. I have a final appointment next saturday, so hopefully I'll know what's up with me. Don't know what I should do if she concludes I'm depressed because I'm sure there's more than that.

Studies suggest that ADHD has no inherent bias for or against creativity. What seems to be the case is that people with ADHD spend more time in creative endeavours (like programming, drawing, drama, etc) because these things occupy their attention and interest sufficiently (and because normal they get disheartened with normal academic pursuits).

Did you ever spend your childhood day-dreaming, even when not in school or doing homework? Did you play with LEGO and think up elaborate stories and settings? Because that's creative.

Yeah psychs often diagnose depression if you mention bad short-term memory and lack of motivation.

It's hard for me to be creative also in the sense of thinking up stories and such. I am and have always been a big daydreamer, always and everywhere, but mostly I daydream about the creations of others like worlds and settings from videogames or cartoons, but those that already have been created. I don't think up any expansion like new characters and areas, I daydream about the experiences playing and watching those games/cartoons.

You might say I'm creative in the sense that I think about experiencing things like saving the world, going back in time, kick a terrorist's *** but unoriginal and not complex. If I were to make a movie of those thoughts it would most likely be criticized for the simple story and great amount of clichés.

Other things I think a lot about: philosophical questions, the complexity of the human brain and the universe, the beauty of nature. I also tend to think about the things I'd like to do like playing the piano but can't because of my lack of motivation.

So I do tons of daydreaming, but I wouldn't consider myself being creative. I could rarely draw or compose some original stuff (not that I've tried, but still).

Something else that's very different about me: I have a great desire for knowledge I can't fulfil because I have so much trouble reading books. And the few times I achieve reading 20 pages, I forget most of it the next day. You could say that because of this desire I critisize people easily for being too shallow. I can't stand random conversations, they're so meaningless. I just don't feel like I fit in, like I'm from a different planet. Not that I care, but I do wish there were some people who share the same mentality as me. But in my experience those are extremely rare.

Do you think I could be depressed? I have a lot of negative thoughts and I feel bad now and then, but other than that I simply don't meet the criteria. To my friends and family I don't appear sad at all. On the contrary, I joke and laugh a lot though I'm still a very quiet person who doesn't say much in general. I seem to be a lot more social with good friends I've known for a very long time (though I have very few). Even my psychologist agrees I don't look depressed in the least. I just don't see how that could be the cause of so many problems I've had my whole life. I feel a lot more like I'm frustrated at how different I am in mentality and social skills. And lately not being able to pay attention in class and learn has become a lot more frustrating (didn't really care about that in highschool but then again university is much harder and more important).

btw about my different mentality, let me explain that a bit further, maybe you can relate: I don't want a one night stand or a girlfriend just for the physical aspect. I think going to parties is a waste of time. I hate the fact that everyone pays attention to celebrities. Though I'm atheist (like most people I know) I have a desire for the religious experience (buddhism), whenever people laugh at someone who hasn't done them any harm (e.g. ugly people with social problems) I just hate them because I can empathize so well with the people they're laughing at, I'm considering doing volunteer work in south-america for which I have to pay myself,...

edit: just realised how much I wrote :O

Do you think I could be depressed? I have a lot of negative thoughts and I feel bad now and then, but other than that I simply don't meet the criteria.

It is almost scary how much I can relate to what you write. Nearly all of it.
Even to things like what you say about religion, social things, hating one night stands, small talk etc etc. Jeez. Etc.

I've thought too on occasion whether I might be depressed, but I dont meet the criteria either. I suppose it is only natural to feel down sometimes when life feels like it slipping like sand through your fingers. I think this is very common in ADD people.

It is almost scary how much I can relate to what you write. Nearly all of it.Ditto - and I have related to many of your posts as well, Luthien.

Are reading problems also considered an ADD symptom? When I read I always get lost at the middle of a paragraf and have to start reading the paragraf all over again. Also I always forget most of an article after I finish reading it. I read a couple of pages and I'm unable to tell what it's all about. Same goes for learning, I learn a page and while I'm learning the next I can't remember a thing about the previous one.This is a major problem of mine. I'm very good at spelling. My vocabulary is fine and I know all the words - but can't stand to read. Some fiction I can manage if I'm fascinated, enough - but at the other end of the spectrum, textbooks were impossible. I had to read sentences over and over because by the time I got near the end of the sentence, I'd forgotten the beginning and didn't know what they were referring to. I'm not Asperger's but best analogy I've heard yet came from someone with that disorder. It went something like this - as I'm reading, it's as though the words are traveling to the left across the desktop in front of me. As I read on, the first part of the sentence simply falls off the left side of the desk into non-existence.

I also cannot do math in my head, or any kind of brainteaser or strategy game that involves more than two steps. Playing card games or poker, anything where you have to think ahead - just an exercise in frustration. Two steps seem to be the max - two steps before the beginning falls off the left side into non-existence.

My understanding is that this is a problem with working memory. Ironic. Working memory not working. Anyhow, it's certainly been something that has made me feel stupid all my life. HOWEVER, I want to point out that I made it all through school, including 4 years of college, with very good grades - - without ever having read a textbook.

...............Well, you know except for those few nights at the beginning of each semester when I would swear that this semester would be different - that I would read and learn all the wonderful information that must be in those books. Those few nights when I would try so hard - taking twenty minutes to get through a single page before realizing that it was futile.

I did well in class because I attended all of the lectures and could pick up concepts well when explained and drawn on a board by the professor. However, in my case, the key to remembering any of it was to write it all down in the notebook in front of me. Somehow the act of writing would commit it to memory - visually. If I didn't write it, it didn't remember it. And it had to be recorded in a visually organized way - bulleted lists, new page for new topic with a clear heading, clear subheadings, etc. I would remember what my notebook pages looked like, including any diagrams etc. Then I'd use my notebooks to cram the night before exams. That's it. So I was fortunate to have enough other gifts to make up for the inability to read textbooks.

It's hard for me to be creative also in the sense of thinking up stories and such. I am and have always been a big daydreamer, always and everywhere, but mostly I daydream about the creations of others like worlds and settings from videogames or cartoons, but those that already have been created. I don't think up any expansion like new characters and areas, I daydream about the experiences playing and watching those games/cartoons.

You might say I'm creative in the sense that I think about experiencing things like saving the world, going back in time, kick a terrorist's *** but unoriginal and not complex. If I were to make a movie of those thoughts it would most likely be criticized for the simple story and great amount of clichés.

Other things I think a lot about: philosophical questions, the complexity of the human brain and the universe, the beauty of nature. I also tend to think about the things I'd like to do like playing the piano but can't because of my lack of motivation.

So I do tons of daydreaming, but I wouldn't consider myself being creative. I could rarely draw or compose some original stuff (not that I've tried, but still).
It sounds like you are, in fact, a very creative thinker - I have struggled with this concept as well. We sound much alike. I've been considered a very good artist - when drawing from a model, that is. Or a pile of fruit, or anything from real life - I seem to be quite talented. But to sit down and create something of my own, per se...I could never express the feelings and impressions in my head through my hands. Bits and pieces and images flying around - could never give them a cohesive-enough form to then put down on paper.

I used to think it had to do with self-confidence. Like I had the ultimate blank-page syndrome - one that never goes away. Not sure what that's about. Later on, I found a bit of a creative outlet through digital photography - because I can edit to perfection. First time I've ever felt satisfaction over something I created. I can work miracles with photo restoration, add and remove people, stuff like that - fun.

Sorry so long - hope you can make it through all that. I really just wanted to let you know that you CAN succeed intellectually and creatively despite these difficulties.

It's hard for me to be creative also in the sense of thinking up stories and such. I am and have always been a big daydreamer, always and everywhere, but mostly I daydream about the creations of others like worlds and settings from videogames or cartoons, but those that already have been created. I don't think up any expansion like new characters and areas, I daydream about the experiences playing and watching those games/cartoons.

You might say I'm creative in the sense that I think about experiencing things like saving the world, going back in time, kick a terrorist's *** but unoriginal and not complex. If I were to make a movie of those thoughts it would most likely be criticized for the simple story and great amount of clichés.

Most movies start out with simplistic plots, too. They get filled in as production goes along. A book doesn't start out written, full of complex story and plotlines; it reaches this point through a journey from a simple starting point, such as one of the fantasies you mention above.

Other things I think a lot about: philosophical questions, the complexity of the human brain and the universe, the beauty of nature. I also tend to think about the things I'd like to do like playing the piano but can't because of my lack of motivation.

So I do tons of daydreaming, but I wouldn't consider myself being creative. I could rarely draw or compose some original stuff (not that I've tried, but still).

Something else that's very different about me: I have a great desire for knowledge I can't fulfil because I have so much trouble reading books. And the few times I achieve reading 20 pages, I forget most of it the next day. You could say that because of this desire I critisize people easily for being too shallow. I can't stand random conversations, they're so meaningless. I just don't feel like I fit in, like I'm from a different planet. Not that I care, but I do wish there were some people who share the same mentality as me. But in my experience those are extremely rare.

Do you think I could be depressed? I have a lot of negative thoughts and I feel bad now and then, but other than that I simply don't meet the criteria. To my friends and family I don't appear sad at all. On the contrary, I joke and laugh a lot though I'm still a very quiet person who doesn't say much in general. I seem to be a lot more social with good friends I've known for a very long time (though I have very few). Even my psychologist agrees I don't look depressed in the least. I just don't see how that could be the cause of so many problems I've had my whole life. I feel a lot more like I'm frustrated at how different I am in mentality and social skills. And lately not being able to pay attention in class and learn has become a lot more frustrating (didn't really care about that in highschool but then again university is much harder and more important).

btw about my different mentality, let me explain that a bit further, maybe you can relate: I don't want a one night stand or a girlfriend just for the physical aspect. I think going to parties is a waste of time. I hate the fact that everyone pays attention to celebrities. Though I'm atheist (like most people I know) I have a desire for the religious experience (buddhism), whenever people laugh at someone who hasn't done them any harm (e.g. ugly people with social problems) I just hate them because I can empathize so well with the people they're laughing at, I'm considering doing volunteer work in south-america for which I have to pay myself,...

edit: just realised how much I wrote :OHoly crap, you sound like myself 3 years ago who somehow jumped into the future and is posting on a message board.

Except for the reading bit. I personally enjoy reading. I find it hard to stay focused on most textbooks and non-fiction, but fiction is no problem.

I'm an atheist who misses the common ground and idealistic dimension spirituality/religion provides. I care a lot about the world around me, and hate seeing trees cut down or forests destroyed. I'm vegetarian. I've done a lot of thinking about philosophy, psychology and ethics, specifically the nature of existence. I don't 'hate' celebrities, but have no love or respect for them. I refuse to watch TV because I think it's a tool of manipulation; most notably the ads (sit down and watch a cosmetics ad one day). Though I do download specific TV shows I find interesting. I feel socially a bit isolated from my peers. I always feel a nagging feeling like I don't belong, or get frustrated that I can't force myself to go through the motions of social norms (which I often find unbelievably shallow) so that I fit in. I dislike gossiping and judging, which often further isolates me from my peer groups, which bond by judging others.

Hey, I suggest you find a copy of the book 'Frontiers of Complexity' (google it for more info). I reckon it'd be right up your alley!

I should mention that I have changed a bit in the last couple of years. I'm not as idealistic or morally black/white as I used to be, and find it easier to find pleasure in or cope with simple/meaningless things (like social interaction). It's good in some ways, but I feel like I'm 'dumber' for it also. I also care less and less about what others think of me (so I no longer fear social interaction and such). Maybe it's the fact that I've been off stimulants (meds) for 4 years... or maybe I'm just more mature.

I was also in what was, in hindsight, a bout of mild to medium depression 3 or 4 years ago, too, which could explain things a bit (self-esteem increase now).

I had all the symptoms of ADHD combined, confirmed diagnosis. Everyone shows signs of AD/HD, but not everyone shows them since they can remember, everyday, everytime. I didn't have problems at all until my last year at highschool. I couldn't do it in collegue. Now I'm in the 2nd semester, diagnosed and treated. Everything is going way better than before.

I'd recommend you look up Thomas Brown's book Attention Deficit Disorder: The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults -- he talks about why some kids don't have trouble earlier in school. Basically it is because the executive functions weren't challenged past their ability to cope before hand and as responsibilites and such increased it got to be too much -- this is especially likely with brighter ADDers who are able to make accomodations to get around their ADD. Inattentives are frequently diagnosed much later than hyperactive ADDers.

Whether you have ADD or not, be careful about sinking into depression. Some things you can do to help that include daily aerobic exercise; getting Omega III fatty acids, staying connected to important people in your life, and getting support including professional if need be. Stress and depression can both push down the working memory and executive functions.

Take care!

Ditto - and I have related to many of your posts as well, Luthien.
:)

I also cannot do math in my head, or any kind of brainteaser or strategy game that involves more than two steps. Playing card games or poker, anything where you have to think ahead - just an exercise in frustration. Two steps seem to be the max - two steps before the beginning falls off the left side into non-existence.
This still amazes me to read how you, or others like us, describe this so exactly .. when I have tried for years to explain to parents, teachers, friends what it was. And you just state it like that. My goodness.
It's been so maddening. I was/am so in love with science, already as a small kid. I could explain the generics of special relativity at age 9. But as the steps in the math proof expanded beyond 2 my immediate visual imagery no longer worked and I had to rely on that language-like working memory that just does not work! Like a baby that can only hold one object in her hand and drops it when you give her another .. so frustrating.

My understanding is that this is a problem with working memory. Ironic. Working memory not working.
lmao :D

I'm an atheist who misses the common ground and idealistic dimension spirituality/religion provides. I care a lot about the world around me, and hate seeing trees cut down or forests destroyed. I'm vegetarian. I've done a lot of thinking about philosophy, psychology and ethics, specifically the nature of existence. I don't 'hate' celebrities, but have no love or respect for them. I refuse to watch TV because I think it's a tool of manipulation; most notably the ads (sit down and watch a cosmetics ad one day). Though I do download specific TV shows I find interesting. I feel socially a bit isolated from my peers. I always feel a nagging feeling like I don't belong, or get frustrated that I can't force myself to go through the motions of social norms (which I often find unbelievably shallow) so that I fit in. I dislike gossiping and judging, which often further isolates me from my peer groups, which bond by judging others.
Help! This forum software is downloading my mind! :)

I can't begin to fathom the mind of people who make cosmetic ads, or, come to think of it, the ones who willingly buy the humming stuff they try to sell after watching them.

Just how would they think this works?

Woman sits and watches cosmetics ad, which goes like this: grainy, artsy black-and-white footage of Plastic Person who looks broodily into camera and languidly blinks her eyelashes. Voiceover of man that sounds as if he's been on something rather stronger than mere Dexedrine: "Volume that goes to the Max! Because ... you're worth it!"
Woman on couch thinks "Hey, that sounds just like what I need! If I buy that stuff .. my lashes will go to the Max .. I will be able to blink them just as languidly as that model .. and then, when I go to the neighbourhood rave-out tonight, I might attract that hunk from last week. He'll fall for me and we'll be happy ever after!" *mental images of happy kids that go hoppity-skip through a meadow in slowmotion*

Woman dashes out the door to drugstore and buys product.

Strange folk, those non-adders.

Oh my goodness, I not only relate to these experiences almost precisely, but I also relate to the whole: By the phallus of Mars! That is me!

The teachers, parents, friends would ask: What's the problem? Etc, etc. I couldn't explain it, and my garbled explanations were met with blank stares. But when I started reading these stories about people with adhd inattentive, it was like everything I always knew but could never articulate despite my maddening efforts, were right on the webpage! Everything Luthien, busyhermit, Fuse, and some others say on the matter is like hearing my thoughts expressed for me so I can comprehend them! I have always felt so alienated untill now. No one else seems to understand.

I agree. Being on these forums is, if nothing else, a self-confidence booster; simply the knowledge that you aren't the only one out there who thinks this way is comforting.

Finally got the results earlier today. I don't have ADD. However I am slightly gifted with a 121 IQ, which explains why I'm eager to learn and think so much. My working memory didn't end up to be that bad after all, just a little below average. My visual memory is superb (percentile 90), and my auditory memory isn't that bad either. I scored equally well on tests for the left and right hemisphere. However I recieve information more slowly which is why I have trouble learning and paying attention in class. I just need more time to get the same result.

Regarding my personality test (Minnesota Multiphasic Personallity Inventorry 2), I scored high on depression, paranoia (ie quickly getting upset) and most of all social phobia. But she said that I'm definately not depressed, despite showing symptoms like low self-esteem and such.

Conclusion: social phobia. Makes a lot of sense really.

Finally got the results earlier today. I don't have ADD. However I am slightly gifted with a 121 IQ, which explains why I'm eager to learn and think so much.

I am just curious, this question is not me trying to "figure you out", but do you find your mind extremely disorganized?

I am just curious, this question is not me trying to "figure you out", but do you find your mind extremely disorganized?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but could you illustrate that with an example?

I mean do you feel like sometimes you can not collect all your thoughts because they are everywhere?

Hi Stabby, sounds like you can find yourself in the 'social phobia' diagnosis. I just wondered .. did she explain how your inattention and motivation problems relate to social phobia?

Anyhow, I went to a psychologist and went through a couple of tests for ADD, but it all felt a bit amateurish.
Did she show you the results of those tests?

She didn't ask any questions, I just had to tell my story and so I forgot to tell a lot of my complaints. She doesn't know anything about my childhood either, so there's quite a lack of information.
I find that very odd tbh. I thought it's crucial for an ADD evaluation to establish how you were as a kid ..?
And no questions at all?

Well, I did my story and there were some questions for about an hour during my first visit. Anyhow, she gave a very detailed explanation for each of the tests and drew some conclusions about me. To my surprise she was right about everything. I did pretty well on the memory tests (short term memory was below average, but definately not enough to be diagnosed with ADD). There was also a test for my attention span (lots and lots of groups of dot and I had to cross each group of 4 dots). The time it took me to complete each line varied from 11 to 15 seconds which indicates inattention problems but again not enough for ADD. Stroop test was very weak (percentile 10), but only reading the words and colors seperately. I did pretty well at the main test (saying the colors instead of the word).

I was really surprised about my IQ test. Basicly my general IQ is 121. My gender IQ is even more: 140. She said my left and right brain are very well balanced (I didn't perform particularly worse on either tests). There was one test where I got 8 cards with figures and I had to divide them into 2 groups (each group having a certain characteristic). I scored 18/20 which is way above average.

My inattention and motivational problems are explained by an inferiority complex I developed throughout the years. Also because of my pretty high IQ I think too much which causes attention problems.

This all seems to make much more sense. I have most of the symptoms of ADD, but some important ones lack like a disorganized mind and not being able to focus my thoughts on one thing.

I'll still be hanging out around here though. This forum is awesome and I can still relate to many of you. It's good to be with people who share the same mentality as me :D

btw does anyone know what gender IQ is? I really don't know what to make of that.

ok :)
Didn't she tell you how you scored on the DSM-IV symptoms for AD/HD?
Sorry if I keep "at it".. I'm just curious!
As far as I know - and have experienced (twice) - the diagnosis is made (or not) if you score 6 or more symptoms of inattention and/or hyperactivity/impulsivity *AND* a couple of other conditions are met (like, there's no other cause for the symptoms).

What I read from your story is that you have been given a couple of tests like that Stroop test, a memory test and an IQ test .. but neither of them is as far as I know decisive in making or breaking the ADD diagnosis, although they're certainly useful.

ADD 101: What Every Beginner in ADD Needs to Know
...
There is no test for ADD. The diagnosis of ADD is made based on your history with, when possible, corroboration from others who knew you as a child or who know you now. Testing may be helpful to learn more about your mental strengths and weaknesses, but not to learn if you have ADD.
...

I'm not trying to undermine your feeling of "This all seems to make much more sense" .. if that diagnosis feels good to you, don't let my rambling on bother you!

It's just that thing about those tests that sometimes makes me wonder how some docs/psychologists make the diagnosis and how much consistency there is.

btw does anyone know what gender IQ is? I really don't know what to make of that.
Ha, I thought that too .. but forgot it again. Indeed, what is it? There's a question about it on Yahoo Answers, but no serious answers.

ok :)
Didn't she tell you how you scored on the DSM-IV symptoms for AD/HD?
Sorry if I keep "at it".. I'm just curious!
As far as I know - and have experienced (twice) - the diagnosis is made (or not) if you score 6 or more symptoms of inattention and/or hyperactivity/impulsivity *AND* a couple of other conditions are met (like, there's no other cause for the symptoms).

What I read from your story is that you have been given a couple of tests like that Stroop test, a memory test and an IQ test .. but neither of them is as far as I know decisive in making or breaking the ADD diagnosis, although they're certainly useful.

If it helps, this psychologist is specialised in AD(H)D/Asperger so I'm pretty sure she's not wrong. She doesn't even suspect ADD anymore, it's completely out of the question because of some decisive factors. She definately knows her stuff, and it's not like she relied only on those stroop & memory tests.

Also on my personality test I scored high for depression but she knows I couldn't possibly be clinically depressed. I personally believe a lot of doctors would have jumped to conclusions and diagnose me with depression.

I'm not trying to undermine your feeling of "This all seems to make much more sense" .. if that diagnosis feels good to you, don't let my rambling on bother you!

It's just that thing about those tests that sometimes makes me wonder how some docs/psychologists make the diagnosis and how much consistency there is.

Yeah I've wondered that too. IMO there are more bad than good doctors, but the one I've been to has won my trust. Having llearned a lot about ADD I could tell she has a lot of experience with ADD'ers and the like.


Ha, I thought that too .. but forgot it again. Indeed, what is it? There's a question about it on Yahoo Answers, but no serious answers.

That's my question from half an hour ago. The answers thus far are lousy indeed.

thanks :)

However maybe I'm mistaken by trusting her? I'm starting to have doubts. I thought that working memory problems and inattention were pretty significant in people with ADD? Those tests she took showed I have a slightly below average short term memory and attention, but nothing significant. It also proved that I take in information slowly.

It's not the definitive diagnosis (that's up to a psychiatrist), but I'm starting to get scared this will lead to a misdiagnosis.

there is something about boys getting some depression-like symptoms around uh, 8yrs old, and girls around puberty time. Depression is implicated in lack of concentration. Seeing some of your other posts, Stabby, that might be part of the problem. It's hard to acknowledge (or atleast it was for me) because feeling this way for a long time leads one to not notice it as much.

However maybe I'm mistaken by trusting her? I'm starting to have doubts. I thought that working memory problems and inattention were pretty significant in people with ADD? Those tests she took showed I have a slightly below average short term memory and attention, but nothing significant. It also proved that I take in information slowly.

It's not the definitive diagnosis (that's up to a psychiatrist), but I'm starting to get scared this will lead to a misdiagnosis.
Hi .. well, I can't tell if you should trust her or not. The thing that struck me a bit is what you said last week
She didn't ask any questions, I just had to tell my story and so I forgot to tell a lot of my complaints. She doesn't know anything about my childhood either, so there's quite a lack of information.as compared to how you talked about it now ..

and to the best of my knowledge ADD not only comes with memory problems and inattention, but that they are the core symptoms.

But it is also true that we can sometimes focus very well - when something really interests us. "Attention Deficit" does not describe the condition very well .. "Attention Variability" is much more correct. So maybe an attention test is not the best way to measure ADD?
That is why I think that not everyone is so keen on those tests to diagnose ADD with. Even Hallowell & Ratey say so in Delivered from Distraction .. that the patient history is by far the most important factor in the ADD diagnosis, and all that neurological testing stuff is well and good, but not crucial.

I don't want to add to your confusion. I'm sorry if I did that. If you feel that "social phobia" describes pretty well what bothers you and it can help you forward, why doubt?

The problem is that the core symptoms (memory, inattention) are not that significant. I'm slightly below averge in those regards, but not even enough to be considered slightly ADD. I'm sure that would exclude ADD. My inattention in class and social situations is explained by slight anxiety and also thinking a lot.

Also I don't have as much trouble learning as ADD'ers. I learn slower, but nothing near what's been described in a lot of threads here.

I see, that does make sense. You're only ADD if there are significant issues with attention, of course.

Just curious and I know it does not really prove anything .. but I wonder if an online ADD self report tests like the Jasper/Goldberg Adult ADD Questionnaire (http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=974&cn=3) reflects that?

It is interesting what you say about 'anxiety causing inattention' in your case. I mean, it makes sense that an existing anxiety causes inattention .. but in the case of (inattentive) ADD, anxiety is often caused by the whole ADD thing .. complex eh! One of the mechanisms that I read somewhere (where again?) was like .. that severe inattention / dreaminess sort of causes you to be 'out of touch' with the world around you, which results in a permanently slightly activated 'fight of flight' reflex because the level vigilance is too low. And this then causes anxiety in the long run. Anyhow, when I read this it sounded very recognisable to me ..

Ah, rambling on again .. :rolleyes:

Now you're making me anxious, lol. I'll just trust her and try to do anything about my anxiety. If nothing has changed by next year I was obviously misdiagnosed.

ohhhhh sorry!!! I dont want to make you anxious!

me & my big mouth :(

EDIT
correction, me & my big keyboard :(

I was just kidding, silly :p

Like I said, social anxiety kinda makes sense as a cause of my problems. I'm not gonna doubt my diagnosis for now.

I see, that does make sense. You're only ADD if there are significant issues with attention, of course.

Sarcasm right? Isn't it true though that all ADD'ers have significant issues with attention?

Sarcasm right?
er, no .. ? :confused:

Isn't it true though that all ADD'ers have significant issues with attention?
.. yes, of course?

I just said "You're only ADD if there are significant issues with attention" in reaction to your
The problem is that the core symptoms (memory, inattention) are not that significant. I'm slightly below averge in those regards, but not even enough to be considered slightly ADD.as in confirming ...

Oh sorry, the "of course" gave your sentence a sarcastic tint :p

Oh sorry, the "of course" gave your sentence a sarcastic tint :p
oh gee, no .. I usually don't even get sarcasm ..

However I am slightly gifted with a 121 IQ, which explains why I'm eager to learn and think so much. My working memory didn't end up to be that bad after all, just a little below average.

Everything is relative. Your IQ score is over one standard deviation above average, but your working memory is slightly below. If you took the WAIS test, did he/she give you a breakdown of performance IQ vs. verbal IQ? Verbal IQ being significantly greater than performance IQ is often an indicator that ADHD/LD may be present (I'm thinking a 20 point spread, but the cutoff is arbitrary).

slow informational processing... sounds like what I have. reduced working memory as well. anyway, that doesn't mean that add meds won't help you with some of those things. actually, only Strattera has helped me with that at all. how did that trial go for you?

My psychiatrist prescribed me Strattera right before my exams, but I didn't think it was a good idea reading about all the side effects in the first 6 weeks. Besides, it costs €93 (about $112) for only a month and the government doesn't pay back any of that.

flatlinez, were you diagnosed with ADD? Otherwise looks like we have the same thing.


Everything is relative. Your IQ score is over one standard deviation above average, but your working memory is slightly below. If you took the WAIS test, did he/she give you a breakdown of performance IQ vs. verbal IQ? Verbal IQ being significantly greater than performance IQ is often an indicator that ADHD/LD may be present (I'm thinking a 20 point spread, but the cutoff is arbitrary).

I don't even know what to think of my 121 IQ. She made it seem like it was special, but it doesn't seem so special to me (only 1 point above average hardly makes any difference, right?) She mentioned my IQ was divided into several categories (general IQ, gender, verbal and performance). She said there weren't any great differences between all of those (my verbal IQ was pretty good she said) except gender IQ (140). I don't even know what gender IQ is. Should I be amazed or something?

Gender IQ? If you ever find out what that is, please enlighten us! I wonder what my gender IQ is....

I don't even know what gender IQ is. Should I be amazed or something?
Why don't you ask her?

The only thing that I can think of what "gender IQ" means ... is how well-informed, flexible, confident and adaptive you are re. gender roles :rolleyes: - but I bet it's not that.
I supposed it would do no harm to be amazed.

Why don't you ask her?

The only thing that I can think of what "gender IQ" means ... is how well-informed, flexible, confident and adaptive you are re. gender roles :rolleyes: - but I bet it's not that.
I supposed it would do no harm to be amazed.

I did ask her when she told me about it. She answered that men are better at some parts of an IQ-test like spatial reasoning and mathematics. Don't know what to conclude out of that, though.

edit: you're probably wrong. I don't see how an IQ-test could prove how well-informed I am regarding gender roles. I'd definately be amazed if that were true though :p

I don't even know what to think of my 121 IQ. She made it seem like it was special, but it doesn't seem so special to me (only 1 point above average hardly makes any difference, right?) She mentioned my IQ was divided into several categories (general IQ, gender, verbal and performance). She said there weren't any great differences between all of those (my verbal IQ was pretty good she said) except gender IQ (140). I don't even know what gender IQ is. Should I be amazed or something?

That's 21 points above average, actually. That's about the 92nd percentile (i.e. the score is at or higher than 91-92% of other scores).

I've never have heard of Gender IQ either. Perhaps it goes something like:

1.) Create a collection of sample questions and give these questions to a significant number of people.

*.) Keep track of gender along with the results, and norm each population seperately (males, females)

2.) At the time of scoring, your score is based upon norms from all people in your age group, and your gender IQ is based on people of the same gender in your age group.

That's simply a guess, but I think it might be somewhere in the ballpark. So if you have a 140, then your general score would be at or higher than 99.6% of all other individuals of the same gender as you.

Thanks, that could very well be it. There was one mathematical test and one for spatial reasoning. I had 17 and 18 out of 20 respectively, which is very high. If you only take those into account and ignore the other tests, that could very well explain my score.

About 100 being the average, I knew that but I think that most people who go to university (ie everyone I know of my age) have 105-115 or so. Is that right to assume?

The fact that there wasn't much difference between your performance and verbal IQ may have been one of the reasons she ruled out ADD. Folks with ADD frequently have a 10 point or higher split between those tests (for example my verbal IQ is 24 points higher than my performance IQ).

The fact that there wasn't much difference between your performance and verbal IQ may have been one of the reasons she ruled out ADD. Folks with ADD frequently have a 10 point or higher split between those tests (for example my verbal IQ is 24 points higher than my performance IQ).

interesting. Is the performance IQ in persons with ADD always (or, often) lower than verbal IQ, or is there just a large difference either way?

interesting. Is the performance IQ in persons with ADD always (or, often) lower than verbal IQ, or is there just a large difference either way?
It can go either way. This isn't a definitive test by itself, just one of the markers they look at. I think there is a thread about this somewhere on the forums from a year or so ago.

Saw this on wikipedia:

"Most studies show significant difference in the average IQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ) for men and women. Men's IQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ) is 2-5 % more than the average female. However, on average men perform better on tests of spatial and mathematical ability, while women perform better on tests of verbal ability and memory. Also, men's IQ has greater variance, that is, there are more men than women in the very high and very low IQ groups, with women's scores more concentrated around the average."

Could it be that gender IQ for men is the same as performance IQ? If so my performance IQ would be 140. No idea why my psychologist wouldn't have said that though, so I should call her sometime.

How is performance IQ calculated? Is half of the IQ-test verbal and half performance? Then it wouldn't make any sense that a performance IQ of 140 has an outcome of a 121 total IQ.

hey Stabby, I didn't mean to sound presumptuous in that previous post. I think the post I was referring to was after you had a bad reaction to Ritalin, so I can understand why you came across as depressed then.

Anyway, I got screened for LDs today and it wasn't enough to warrant full testing. However, my sister is in school for clinical psychology so maybe she can test me. I can definitely relate to the slow absorption of information thing, especially the auditory and written kind.

Actually Ritalin does work great for me. I was just talking about the bad effect on the long term (the zombie effect). Also hated the crashes and the fact it only lasted 1,5 hours. 30mg is enough to get me through 1/3 of a day total, yay! I refuse to take more because it doesn't sound much healthy to me.

However the only great effects were increased motivation and reduced anxiety. Except being more motivated (obviously) I didn't notice much effect on my memory and concentration.

Hey I'm back. I went to my psychologist again a week ago and I don't meet the criteria for social anxiety either! This because I don't have any trouble having informal conversations (at the phone, in the store, etc.) and I only feel really anxious at parties. That does not explain all these huge problems I'm having! She sent me to a psychiatrist who also has a psychotherapy degree because she really has no idea what's up with me (she's specialised in ADD/Asperger). I find it really strange though - which I mentioned to her - that I can fully relate to all of you inattentives. Could this indicate the infamous SCT?

Anyway, just 2 weeks 'till the appointment with that psychiatrist. Should I ask to test me all over again for ADD? I've already been through extensive testing which showed my memory and information processing is a little below average, but way above what would be considered ADD.

I really don't know what to do right know. At college I managed to fail EVERY exam so I've given up on my studies for this year (though I'm still registered, I don't go to most classes anymore). I only have one friend (not a real friend) left and he's making a lot of friends while I'm just sitting there saying nothing. Since last week most of the time I've been at home doing nothing but sleep, watch tv and surf the net. I feel so lazy. There's so many things I wanna do but I can't find the energy and motivation to make any progress. I feel like I'm stuck in a 90-year old's body.

hey welcome back :)
I find it really strange though - which I mentioned to her - that I can fully relate to all of you inattentives. Could this indicate the infamous SCT?
I think SCT is just *really* inattentive ADD .. I mean, with no 'H' at all.
The DSM category of inattentive ADD also includes ppl with less than (I think) 6 symptoms of hyperactivity / impulsivity .. and some researchers think the difference between those ppl and the ones with no 'H' is too large.

wikipedia SCT article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_cognitive_tempo): In many ways, those who have an SCT profile have the opposite symptoms of those with classic ADHD: Instead of being hyperactive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperactive), extroverted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extroverted), obtrusive, and risk takers, those with SCT are passive, daydreamy, shy, and "HYPO"-active in both a mental and physical way. They also don't have the same risk factors and outcomes. Their demeanor is sluggish, as if "in a fog." and logically they also process information more slowly. A key behavioural characteristic of those with SCT symptoms is that they are more likely to appear to be lacking motivation. They lack energy to deal with mundane tasks and will consequently seek things that are mentally stimulating because of their underaroused state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arousal). Those with SCT symptoms show a qualitatively different kind of attention deficit that is more typical of a true information input-output problem, such as memory retrieval and active working memory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_memory). Conversely, those with the other two subtypes of ADHD are characteristically excessively energetic and have no difficulty processing information.<sup class="reference" id="_ref-schwablearning_0">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_cognitive_tempo#_note-schwablearning)</sup>

Anyway, just 2 weeks 'till the appointment with that psychiatrist. Should I ask to test me all over again for ADD? I've already been through extensive testing which showed my memory and information processing is a little below average, but way above what would be considered ADD.
Those tests ... I don't know .. ( sigh ) .. the more I read about:
testing

what ADD people say about (their) testing

fanatical proponents of testingthe more testy I get. It is as if there is something off and I cannot really voice it properly. But it is a bit like this: I really think that ADD is quite diverse. That goes for ADD / ADHD itself .. ranges from screaming fanatic bungee jump fanatics all the way to yawning toe-gazers .. some of us are really smart, some have developed great coping skills ... how on earth is a test going to be decisive in that - if the tester does not really take the personal story of the tested into account?

That's my feeling about it.

I should not ask for testing.
I should ask for an evaluation.
By a human psychiatrist without whizz-bang equipment.

I feel so lazy. There's so many things I wanna do but I can't find the energy and motivation to make any progress. I feel like I'm stuck in a 90-year old's body.
Of course, lack of energy could be as simple as an iron deficiency. Or a virus. But what you have all mentioned before .. I think it's good that you go to that psychiatrist :)

good luck!

Thanks Luthien, I will definately ask for an evaluation since I've started to distrust the tests.

God I just can't stand this anymore. I just made a list of almost every symptom, for which I had to look up all my threads on these forums and ADD just makes too much sense for me. I'm having some real trouble believing it could be anything else. I don't meet the criteria for social anxiety, depression and Asperger, but ADD is able to explain my whole life. And the only reason I should exclude it is that stupid test. My working memory is quite below average, yet it's not bad enough to be considered ADD? I'm not buying into this bullsh*t.

I don't think I can trust my psychologist at all. I'm going to a psychiatrist tomorrow but it's someone who knows her pretty well, so of course she'll agree I'm not ADD.

re: #67

Stabby:

Do you get oral exams (scribe) or a keyboard? That can help with exam performance. (Handwriting is slow, which means info gets lost 'online' if a person has poor Working Memory.)

I'm not sure what you mean but all my exams are written and I don't even bother taking notes during class since I can't pay attention.

I'm going to a psychiatrist tomorrow but it's someone who knows her pretty well, so of course she'll agree I'm not ADD.
aww http://www.emoticons.free.fr/smileys/zz-Uncategorized/console.gif

who knows, it might turn out the other way. If that psychiatrist is any good then she won't 'just' agree. And even if that happens .. go to another one.

aww http://www.emoticons.free.fr/smileys/zz-Uncategorized/console.gif
And even if that happens .. go to another one.

Agrees with Luthien!!

I've been looking at the possibility of suffering from ADHD Inattentive Type or SCT, but I'm a major sceptic since nowadays everyone gets diagnosed with ADHD. I show about 90% of all symptoms of ADHD Inattentive Type and 100% of those of SCT.

The thing that makes it quite doubtful though is that learning issues have only started to arise when I was 14. Before that I got excellent grades even though I was never able to pay much attention in class. I always had to learn a lot at home and I got excellent results until 3th grade of highschool. Starting then, no matter how much I learned at home everyone got higher results despire learning a lot less than me. I should also note that I was motivated for school until 13 (little concentration though). Then all of a sudden it all got downhill (no motivation + concentration).

Other than that, all symptoms have applied to me all my life. Should I just go to a psychologist to get diagnosed and assume that learning wasn't an issue because I could easily not pay attention in class and still get high results? I've always had to learn twice as much to get the same result as others and it's killing me now I'm in my first year of college. It's impossible to keep up, I have no motivation and it takes 2 hours to learn 12 pages. I will definately fail that way.









I AM SOOOOOOOOO LIKE YOU.
I think you finally lost your motivation like me, when you just couldn't take all the extra effort anymore. You also develop more emotions as you get older, so the more problems you have, the more emotional you get, and suddenly you aren't as determined to get as good of grades. Just having the typical emotions of a teenager make it harder to pay attention with a.d.d. As you go up in every grade, things get harder. Attention is like REQUIRED in class. Teachers start to do more lectures, and less visuals. They expect more of you, so all the information you need to know isn't in directions on a paper or on the board half the time. You have to actually listen to what you learn or you wont get it.

I'm gonna tell you from experience in college for about a year and half, IT'S GOING TO GET HARDER AND HARDER. Medication helps so much..

I bet you have a million people tell you that you don't seem a.d.d. half the time, but they have to spend time with you to really see you "spacing out".


sorry if any of this is a repeat, didn't feel like looking through everyone elses responses lol.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Stabby as well http://www.addforums.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=565003#post565003)
I feel so lazy. There's so many things I wanna do but I can't find the energy and motivation to make any progress. I feel like I'm stuck in a 90-year old's body.


ok wow... it's funny that I'm reading this in the same night as I just figured out my problem might after all not be a.d.d., but just chronic fatigue syndrome.

I read this article that people who have it tend to develop problems with things like attention and memory, and cognitive function because we're just so damn tired all the time. It usually starts in childhood too, so if you're commonly seeing yourself as a "couch potato" this MIGHT be it.

http://www.neuroimmunedr.com/Articles/CFS_-_CFIDS/Chronic_Fatigue/chronic_fatigue.html (http://www.neuroimmunedr.com/Articles/CFS_-_CFIDS/Chronic_Fatigue/chronic_fatigue.html)

I found it even more interesting for myself because I have chronic sinusitis and allergy issues.. It talks how it's all related. I found it so weird!



Also, get yourself tested for auditory processing disorder, it is commonly misdiagnosed as a.d.d and it is very similar. Slowly processing things is a big part of it. Do you have trouble with that when you are talking to people?




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http://www.incrediblehorizons.com/mimic-adhd.htm 50 conditions that mimic a.d.d.



http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51024 fatigue thread I started talking about.


http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50794 also saw your reading problem...

God I edited this like 5 times to the point where it wouldn't let me edit anymore......



Cfs is also kind of controversal in our case because people who have a.d.d also have sleep problems, making them less attentive in the morning. That can leave us having no energy all day.

My mom was also talking to neuro psychologist who said that my problems with having no energy can be due to trying to concentrate so much to the point where I am exhausted.

also kind of random but I find it interesting if you "don't" have a.d.d. and take it.............

"In most people the effects of these stimulant drugs are short-lived and there is often a letdown or "crash" after they wear off. During this "crash" the patient can feel very depressed, sleepy, and sluggish. Furthermore, and very much unlike the other drugs discussed so far in this chapter, stimulant drugs have the potential to induce "tolerance." People who abuse amphetamines and other stimulants--usually in attempts to lose weight or stay awake for prolonged periods--often find that a dose that had worked for a while is suddenly ineffective and they need a higher dose. They then become "tolerant" to the higher dose and have to increase the dose again. Soon, the person is addicted to the drug. Stopping it suddenly leads to a severe withdrawal reaction characterized by bad depression and extreme fatigue. Suicides have been reported in people who suddenly stop taking amphetamines."



check out irlene.com for reading too.

Thanks, but I definately don't meet the criteria for chronic fatigue syndrome either. ADD makes much more sense.

My visit to the psychiatrist wasn't so bad after all. She said she wouldn't let me come back because she's not that experienced with ADD. She's gonna call back though and give me some information about getting a much broader diagnosis.

About stimulant drugs: the effect of Ritalin is very short-lived and I do experience the crash very often. Though I have to say that after taking 30mg/day for a month I can easily quit without any withdrawal reaction.

Same goes for nicotine. I quit smoking last week after a year (half a pack each day) and I had no trouble whatsoever. Not even thought about having another cigarette. It's as if I've never smoked in the first place.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50794 (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50794) also saw your reading problem...

Well now that I think of it, reading is not that much of a problem. Absorbing all the information however is and this explains why I have to read over and over again.

My visit to the psychiatrist wasn't so bad after all. She said she wouldn't let me come back because she's not that experienced with ADD. She's gonna call back though and give me some information about getting a much broader diagnosis.

what is a much broader diagnosis ? :confused:

Same goes for nicotine. I quit smoking last week after a year (half a pack each day) and I had no trouble whatsoever. Not even thought about having another cigarette. It's as if I've never smoked in the first place.

that's odd ... I had an incredibly hard time quitting. The actual withdrawal was not so bad .. but the anxiety, lack of energy and inattention of truly mythic proportions that kicked in after two weeks was.

what is a much broader diagnosis ? :confused:


It means that I will actually get to tell everything about my personal life and youth, about all my problems and feelings. That's not how it went last time. The psychologist took some simple tests and drew some conclusions. She didn't even evaluate me for my social anxiety, which I ended up not having after all.

I'm sure there will also be brain scans and such, and a real IQ test. The IQ-test I did was only about an hour and couldn't even determine my performal/verbal IQ.

There was also only 1 simple test for attention span and the memory tests were not extensive enough imo. There's a huge difference between remembering a dozen words and learning for school or recalling a story. She said I scored only a bit below average, yet I experience huge memory problems in daily life, especially working memory but also long term memory though that could be explained by anxiety?


that's odd ... I had an incredibly hard time quitting. The actual withdrawal was not so bad .. but the anxiety, lack of energy and inattention of truly mythic proportions that kicked in after two weeks was.

So you didn't have much trouble the first two weeks? It's only been 1,5 weeks for me now. How much did you smoke?

I'm sure there will also be brain scans and such, and a real IQ test. The IQ-test I did was only about an hour and couldn't even determine my performal/verbal IQ.

why brain scans? There is absolutely no consensus that brain scans help diagnosing ADD, no matter what Dr Amen says (or, if you talk about QEEG, that guy from Belgium, you've probably heard of him .. from De Poort). Same thing about IQ tests. All very nice to know and adding (mega)bytes to your medical record, but I still don't see how that contributes to a correct diagnosis :confused:

There was also only 1 simple test for attention span and the memory tests were not extensive enough imo. There's a huge difference between remembering a dozen words and learning for school or recalling a story. She said I scored only a bit below average, yet I experience huge memory problems in daily life, especially working memory but also long term memory though that could be explained by anxiety?
I would really not know, sorry. I should think not, I cant imagine how. Anxiety may be distracting .. but affecting memory? No idea.

So you didn't have much trouble the first two weeks? It's only been 1,5 weeks for me now. How much did you smoke?
Well, it was hard enough the first two weeks, but not worse then anyone else goes through I suppose.
I smoked a lot, a pack a day.

Sorry for jumping in -- maybe I am way off-base here, so let me know.

If you want an in-depth relationship with your psychologist, then you'll have to set up therapy sessions. If this psychologist doesn't do it for you, then try another, and maybe even consider a psychoanalyst.

If you want medical treatment, then go to a psychiatrist.

I don't really think that testing is so important. A self-awareness of your problems and strengths is what it takes for you to improve.

I missed the part about you visiting a psychiatrist, but keep at it.

Also, methylphenidates (Ritalin included) might be regarded as less effective for inattentive types, myself included. I experience terrible depression when they wear off. Inattentives tend to do much better on amphetamine based medicines. Even still, I've found that the dexedrine comedown is a bit depressing, but Wellbutrin has helped a lot with that.

why brain scans? There is absolutely no consensus that brain scans help diagnosing ADD, no matter what Dr Amen says (or, if you talk about QEEG, that guy from Belgium, you've probably heard of him .. from De Poort). Same thing about IQ tests. All very nice to know and adding (mega)bytes to your medical record, but I still don't see how that contributes to a correct diagnosis :confused:

Well, I guess there won't be any brain scans then. Another IQ-test would be quite useless too I guess, since the last one showed no shortcomings. Though I thought that ADD'ers show a significant difference between performance and verbal IQ? Then an extensive IQ-test could be useful.


I would really not know, sorry. I should think not, I cant imagine how. Anxiety may be distracting .. but affecting memory? No idea.

Honestly I know as much as you do. My psychologist has utterly failed at explaining all these problems. All she could say is I have anxiety, though that explains only a small portion of my problems.

Well, it was hard enough the first two weeks, but not worse then anyone else goes through I suppose.
I smoked a lot, a pack a day.

A pack a day is much harder to stop from. Though some people I know who smoke as much as me can't quit, while it was piece of cake for me. Even after 1,5 weeks I still don't feel any signs of mental or physical addiction. Only the first 2 days after I quit I was more easily annoyed, but I didn't associate this with cigarettes, nor did I long for a cigarette. It was no different than a non-smoker being in a slightly bad mood.

Sorry for jumping in -- maybe I am way off-base here, so let me know.

If you want an in-depth relationship with your psychologist, then you'll have to set up therapy sessions. If this psychologist doesn't do it for you, then try another, and maybe even consider a psychoanalyst.

If you want medical treatment, then go to a psychiatrist.

I don't really think that testing is so important. A self-awareness of your problems and strengths is what it takes for you to improve.

I honestly think I definately need to undergo more testing to find out the cause of my attention and memory problems. If the cause is unknown, how can you even solve these issues? There are so many explanations, from dysthymia and anxiety (which solve only part of a puzzle) to ADD or just personality traits that need to be changed (which would solve the whole puzzle). If I don't find out which one it is, it's impossible to know which treatment is best suited for me.

Well, I guess there won't be any brain scans then. Another IQ-test would be quite useless too I guess, since the last one showed no shortcomings. Though I thought that ADD'ers show a significant difference between performance and verbal IQ? Then an extensive IQ-test could be useful.oh, I thought that psychiatrist sort of hinted there would be scans and tests and whatnot?

A pack a day is much harder to stop from. Though some people I know who smoke as much as me can't quit, while it was piece of cake for me. Even after 1,5 weeks I still don't feel any signs of mental or physical addiction. Only the first 2 days after I quit I was more easily annoyed, but I didn't associate this with cigarettes, nor did I long for a cigarette. It was no different than a non-smoker being in a slightly bad mood.Didn't the nicotine make you feel better? I was totally hooked on nicotine.. self medication, as I understand it now. Quitting smoking to me was like throwing away my attention, my self-esteem, my resistance to fear, my mental shields.
And I *knew* that before I quit. I tried to quit once before. When I started smoking again after half a year, it was amazing how fast I got all these things back .. within days.

I honestly think I definately need to undergo more testing to find out the cause of my attention and memory problems. If the cause is unknown, how can you even solve these issues? There are so many explanations, from dysthymia and anxiety (which solve only part of a puzzle) to ADD or just personality traits that need to be changed (which would solve the whole puzzle). If I don't find out which one it is, it's impossible to know which treatment is best suited for me.Maybe I think too simplistic .. but a psychiatrist should be able to discern anxiety, dysthymia and ADD and personality traits ...?

Sorry if I ask for the obvious, but if you look at the DSM-IV critertia .. all of them I mean, not just the inattention ... what does that tell you?

oh, I thought that psychiatrist sort of hinted there would be scans and tests and whatnot?


She didn't really know what kind of tests there would be. She just said one of her patients did the same thing (in het universitair ziekenhuis in Gent), that it is quite expensive but also more extensive than a psychologist.

Anyway I think one of the things they'll do is look at my brain activity using certain equipment while performing some tasks. It would make sense since it could indicate ADD.

Didn't the nicotine make you feel better? I was totally hooked on nicotine.. self medication, as I understand it now. Quitting smoking to me was like throwing away my attention, my self-esteem, my resistance to fear, my mental shields. And I *knew* that before I quit. I tried to quit once before. When I started smoking again after half a year, it was amazing how fast I got all these things back .. within days.


wow, quite the opposite happened to me. Mentally, quit smoking made me slightly stronger and a bit more self confident. Physically more healthy too. Nothing life changing though. Maybe this is what I feel because for the first time in the last few years I achieved something.

I never tried to quit smoking before because of all the stress I've been experiencing. Now I decided to quit smoking a few days before my birthday because I had vacation. Also since I started smoking a week after my previous birthday I figured it would add something symbolic (never being a smoker before and after the same birthday).

I actually had one cigarette a week after I quit (someone offered it), but it did nothing to me. I didn't feel better at all. It's now been almost a week since having this cigarette and I haven't longed for another one a single time. I still enjoy smoking occasionaly (once a week), but in the same way I enjoy a cigar. So it has nothing to do with addiction.

Maybe I think too simplistic .. but a psychiatrist should be able to discern anxiety, dysthymia and ADD and personality traits ...?

Sorry if I ask for the obvious, but if you look at the DSM-IV critertia .. all of them I mean, not just the inattention ... what does that tell you?

It's very hard to discern these disorders without testing. A lot could be possible. Anxiety+dysthymia can perfectly explain ADD symptoms. So can personality traits, like introversion + low self confidence + not a motivated person.

One more thing I'd like to add: you'd be surprised (maybe not) how few psychologists and psychiatrists know something about AD(H)D. Luckily my psychiatrist admitted she didn't have much knowledge regarding ADD, but a lot of people feed their patients bs. My brother's psychiatrist told him about people who no longer have AD(H)D when they grow up and also it can be cured with medication. He actually believes this bs too and (my brother) thinks all mental disorders can be explained by a simple lack of certain chemicals such as dopamine,... while as far as I know ADD'ers also have a different brain structure.

She didn't really know what kind of tests there would be. She just said one of her patients did the same thing (in het universitair ziekenhuis in Gent), that it is quite expensive but also more extensive than a psychologist.

Anyway I think one of the things they'll do is look at my brain activity using certain equipment while performing some tasks. It would make sense since it could indicate ADD.
Exactly ... it could.
And then again, it could not.

:o I almost feel bad about beating the same drum over and over .. but it keeps popping up as a point of discussion: as far as I know, there is no consensus as to what brain activity, QEEG patterns or what have you maps to "ADD" or "no ADD". Not as yet. So the most that these tests are going to give you are more presumptions and probabilities .. *if* it is even known what the statistical correlation is between a certain pattern and ADD (or what have you).

And indeed, tests like that can cost you a load of money.

wow, quite the opposite happened to me. Mentally, quit smoking made me slightly stronger and a bit more self confident. Physically more healthy too. Nothing life changing though. Maybe this is what I feel because for the first time in the last few years I achieved something.

Well, not smoking is physically healthier of course. Strange thing though I noticed an increase in stamina the first two weeks (I noticed because we went to the Ardennes for a long weekend and I found it ridiculously easy to climb hills) but that strength totally disappeared after that. The half year that followed, I was physically very low energy .. just hung on the couch, sleeping half the day, anxious, in a total thick fog, tearful. Wah, that was horrible. Really ADD gone totally through the roof.


She didn't really know what kind of tests there would be. She just said one of her patients did the same thing (in het universitair ziekenhuis in Gent), that it is quite expensive but also more extensive than a psychologist.

Anyway I think one of the things they'll do is look at my brain activity using certain equipment while performing some tasks. It would make sense since it could indicate ADD.
Exactly ... it could.
And then again, it could not.

:o I almost feel bad about beating the same drum over and over .. but it keeps popping up as a point of discussion: as far as I know, there is no consensus as to what brain activity, QEEG patterns or what have you maps to "ADD" or "no ADD". Not as yet. So the most that these tests are going to give you are more presumptions and probabilities .. *if* it is even known what the statistical correlation is between a certain pattern and ADD (or what have you).

And indeed, tests like that can cost you a load of money.

I actually had one cigarette a week after I quit (someone offered it), but it did nothing to me. I didn't feel better at all. It's now been almost a week since having this cigarette and I haven't longed for another one a single time. I still enjoy smoking occasionaly (once a week), but in the same way I enjoy a cigar. So it has nothing to do with addiction.
Oh, well consider yourself lucky! I could only smoke a lot or not at all .. like how an alcoholic drinks. If I take only one cigarette I would probably be hooked again .. although, maybe not with the medication that I have now. But I am not going to try .. never want to go through that again.

It's very hard to discern these disorders without testing. A lot could be possible. Anxiety+dysthymia can perfectly explain ADD symptoms. So can personality traits, like introversion + low self confidence + not a motivated person.
I am not so certain about that .. although I agree that anxiety, or dysthymia, or a low thyroid, or lead poisoning, or giftedness, or maybe a hundred other things may cause *inattention* in itself, I very much doubt whether any (combination) of them really produces the whole spectrum of characteristics that are typical of ADD. A psychiatrist should be able to tell them apart .. that is what they are trained to do after all; and he or she uses additional tools like blood tests etc to exclude certain of those mimicking conditions.
Brain scans may become one of those tools but I don't think that it would be a good thing if that replaced the human evaluation. Smells too much like

- the computer says you have ADD.
- but ... I don' think I do?
- I'm sorry .. test says you do.
- but - I am perfectly able to -
- Mrs Premise, please stop wasting my time. Here's your prescription, good day to you.

OK, I am exaggerating a tiny bit .. but overly depending on seemingly objective methods is not good. That works in physics, but humans are too complex to be measured in that way! Even if the brain scan turns out to capture 90% of the ADD cases .. would you like to be in the 10% false positive or negative?
Humans deserve to be evaluated by a complex evaluator, i.e. another human.

One more thing I'd like to add: you'd be surprised (maybe not) how few psychologists and psychiatrists know something about AD(H)D.
No, not surprised. It is sadly true. Did you read what I posted here last week about that psychiatric nurse in the Netherlands? OK, that was not a psychiatrist .. but still. Edward Hallowell also mentions this .. he says (if I remember it right) that ... the normal psychiatrists usually dont know that much about ADD .. child psychiatrists are a lot better. I saw a child psychiatrists .. he takes adult patients too, a lot of them do. You should try and find one that is interested in and knowledgeable about ADD. Not easy, I admit.

Luckily my psychiatrist admitted she didn't have much knowledge regarding ADD, but a lot of people feed their patients bs. My brother's psychiatrist told him about people who no longer have AD(H)D when they grow up
Well, that seems to be true .. about 30-40 % of the children who have ADD grow over it because their brain "catches up".

and also it can be cured with medication. He actually believes this bs too and (my brother) thinks all mental disorders can be explained by a simple lack of certain chemicals such as dopamine,... while as far as I know ADD'ers also have a different brain structure.
Yes, it cannot be cured.
I don't know if there really is a difference between lack of chemicals and different brain structure .. I mean, one might cause the other. I don't know.

I'd like to thank you for all your great advice! Now I see that getting tested yet again might not really prove to be useful.

But what should I do then? All psychologists/psychiatrists I've been to, even the one specialised in adult ADD, couldn't help me at all. Most of them just pretended they could and when I found out they couldn't they just sent me to another psychiatrist who didn't know jack sh*t. How should I handle this? I'm not gonna keep going to psychiatrists until I find the right one. That might take years! Where I live mental care is a complete disaster. Most people just get diagnosed with depression, get prescribed anti-depressivants without any form of therapy at all. The wrong treatment for the wrong diagnosis. Wherever I go, I go to with a great deal of scepticism. I feel like I can no longer trust anyone.

You're completely right that I should be evaluated by a complex evauluator, but we should put emphasis on the word "complex", since in my case it's been no better than just a shallow evaluator who only makes matters more complicated than they already are.

Well, that seems to be true .. about 30-40 % of the children who have ADD grow over it because their brain "catches up".

Wow, I didn't know that. I always thought it was people with ADHD becoming ADD'ers when growing up.

Er .. remember that this is just my opinion! I should give that psychiatrist a chance .. you don't actually know how she is going to evaluate you, I understand?
Testing may mean just talking .. I dont know. Or filling in forms with questions.

Ask around .. contact other people with AD/HD in your area. Ask for experiences. There is also an ADD forum in Belgium, although it is run by someone who I think is *slightly* biased because he also makes a living as a neurofeedback therapist and who is quite an outspoken QEEG advocate. But you can of course contact people in there.
There are also a number of people from Belgium on that dutch forum. I have one on my MSN list .. I will ask him if he has any suggestions.


I think that ADHD people dont automatically turn into ADD people .. it is more that people who have hyperactivity usually lose part, or a whole lot, of that when they grow up. But I experience still quite a difference between those who never had any hyperactivity and those who "lost it" .. although they fall in the same ADHD-PI category.

Hey I'm back again. Oh boy, what a month it has been. I've been more anxious, mentally tired and unmotivated than usual, which has caused me to 1) stay in bed 'till 2 or 3 pm since getting up has gotten harder, 2) sit at home all day pointlessly surfing the net and watching tv and 3) go to class only once a week because I hate the fact it takes so long to get there (half an hour by train + 15 minutes bus) and because of anxiety, though the anxiety seems to be quite different than the general anxiety disorders. I just have an anxious feeling for no reason, so no fear of being judged or anything. In the meantime I have to decide what I'll study next year (since I've given up on this year), but I haven't had the motivation to call for any information so I could go to a couple of classes of the subjects I'm considering (and next week is the last week of class!).

Not that things were much better before, but at least I was able to take the train to class! Since I quit smoking a month ago, everything seems to have gotten a tad bit worse to the point I can't get myself to do anything at all. Which is quite odd since I wasn't addicted at all. For a whole month I haven't longed for a cigaret a single time. Which is not that impressive since I only smoked about 8 light (ie 6 regular) cigarettes a day.

Today I was a bit stressed out because of the whole situation. For the first time in a month I wanted a cigarette (before I quit I lighted a smoke whenever I felt a bit sad or anxious). I could easily reject, but it got me thinking about the thing I read about nicotine reducing ADD symptoms. I don't think it was placebo (though I never exclude the possibility) but I actually started feeling a bit more relaxed, more clear minded and slightly less socially anxious.

In the meantime I'm still waiting for the written results my psychologist promised to send me 3 weeks ago. I already know the result but I need the details typed out so I can go through some more extensive testing. Money problems are also holding me back. My parents refuse to pay any longer for psychiatrists and testing, but that's allright and understandable since I'll get enough money in a couple of weeks from insurance for an accident I had a year ago which left some slight scars on my hand. Besides, they said they would pay for my meds if I'd ever get diagnosed, so no worries here.