View Full Version : Narcissism


Matt S.
11-24-07, 06:45 PM
I rarely cover the concept of the personality disorder, usually my discussions on the site center around the good old Axis I collection I have.

Since I have time, I figured I would dig into my own personal world of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

It isn't always about what is in the books either.

First, the criteria

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)>>>> not really with me
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love >>>> I do this constantly, it happens when I daydream
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) >>>> I always thought I was just a snob
requires excessive admiration >>>> constantly
has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations >>>> You should see me in restaurants
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends >>>> I used to do this a lot, I am in partial remission.
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others >>>> I really want to be ablle to do this, and thanks to empathy training, I am starting to get concerned, but back to the special status thing, ADDF is a good example of that, I relate to what I deal with.
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her>>>> Constantly
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes>>>> I used to



So now that I have established that, I will describe what it feels like.

Like I will never get people or care about them, genuinely. Like I have this need to make myself appear a certain way that I can use to put myself into this "special" survivor status. Always being able to say I am the exception, like successfully being able to deal with my antisocial traits.

I beleive psychologists refer to it as the projection of a false self.

I totally relate to that expression. I can thank a site member here for opening my eyes to the concept of empathy training. QueensU_Girl you rule. It helps, it'll take forever but it is something that helps open my eyes.

The myth of narcissism is that one is in love with himself.

It involves a persistent thought process, beleiving that people are jealous, people not caring for you because you do what you always have, when on the inside you really want to love someone, of course having the mental ideal of perfection sort of makes it rough.

I don't know I may not be making much of a point but I hope I could give some sense of how it feels to be a narcissist, and wanted to destroy some myths. I probably didn't elaborate on many points and I will post more when I notice it or someone else does.

ADDrus
11-25-07, 11:47 AM
Hi mspen1018, this is something my therapist hit on when I went to see her about myself and my wife. I thought, and still think, she shows signs of borderline. My therapist thought right away Narcissist. So there you go. I guess because people with this disorder generally donít think they have anything wrong with them (my wife included) you wonít see many posts in this thread. I actually came here looking for posts and didnít really find any.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)>>>> she does feel she is important and a kind of authority on everything. Her ideas are always correct and everybody should take note.
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love >>>> she has two of these, ideal love which consists of fantasies of people earning her love and maintaining that love through a series of constant tests that never fully prove the love. She also has a fantasy of perfect beauty which she has a big problem with because she is overweight. This results in a very unhealthy preoccupation that consumes massive amounts of time, energy and money. Anybody who is considering 10s of thousands of dollars for cosmetic surgery that isnít health related has a problem IMHO.
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) >>>> Most people in her life have drifted away over the years. If you donít associate with people with the exception of ďserviceĒ people clerks etc how would you know?
4. requires excessive admiration >>>> Well she doesnít like it when you disagree with her. Not sure I see and admiration thing going on though.
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations >>>> Oh this is a big one for sure. Entitlement is her middle name and unconditional instantaneous compliance is the only option.
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends >>>> Yes sheís exploited her mother mostly and me and the kids to a degree.
7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others >>>> She claims insistently that she is very empathetic. She seems to understand the concept however she seems unable to demonstrate the feelings. She has great difficulty with any positive emotions, love, caring, nothing ďtenderĒ. Sheís actually told me she doesnít understand what love is.
8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her>>>> Everything is always a contest to see who is better, people must be envious of her and she canít buy a gift for someone else without buying the same or better thing for herself.
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes>>>> oh yes, this to me is a very childish behavior. It comes off as mostly pathetic in my mind.



So now that I have established that, I will describe what it feels like.

Like I will never get people or care about them, genuinely. Like I have this need to make myself appear a certain way that I can use to put myself into this "special" survivor status. Always being able to say I am the exception, like successfully being able to deal with my antisocial traits.

I beleive psychologists refer to it as the projection of a false self.

I totally relate to that expression. I can thank a site member here for opening my eyes to the concept of empathy training. QueensU_Girl you rule. It helps, it'll take forever but it is something that helps open my eyes.

The myth of narcissism is that one is in love with himself.

It involves a persistent thought process, beleiving that people are jealous, people not caring for you because you do what you always have, when on the inside you really want to love someone, of course having the mental ideal of perfection sort of makes it rough.

I don't know I may not be making much of a point but I hope I could give some sense of how it feels to be a narcissist, and wanted to destroy some myths. I probably didn't elaborate on many points and I will post more when I notice it or someone else does.I also donít see her as in love with herself, more like she hates herself for not meeting her vision and expectations.
I also agree that the mental picture of the ideal love, she often refers to an idea of an intimate relationship, however her inability to express positive emotions pretty much rules out the possibility of an intimate relationship. In some ways Iím sure her ideal intimate relationship would be based on a person infatuated and admiring her to the exclusion of everything else with her not required to reciprocate the emotions or affections in any way. This is a very hard thing for me to start to become aware of and understand. For the longest time I was under the impression that I was doing something wrong. If I just changed my behavior then I would be rewarded with a normal relationship in which love and affection were shared and exchanged.
My question to you would be, do you feel that you understand love and feel that you can give love to another?

Matt S.
11-25-07, 02:24 PM
I definitely have expectations of my own that until I meet them I am not going to like myself.

ADDrus
11-25-07, 06:58 PM
See now that's exactly what she said to me. Until she learns to love herself, she can't love someone else. I'm confused as to if she's trying to blow me off or if she actually feels this way. If she actually feels this way I have to assume she's always really felt this way. How/why do you get into a relationship with someone if this is how you feel. Was our whole 19 year marriage based on a lie?

This really sucks!

Matt S.
11-25-07, 07:32 PM
Selfishness 100% selfishness.

I am doing something called "Empathy Training" in therapy it is a real eye opener. From what you described before she seemed more borderline. You guys were "head over heels" at one point right?

Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic and Borderline are all cluster B personality disorders so there are a lot of similarities between them all.

ADDrus
11-25-07, 11:23 PM
Is selfishness a common trait associated with narcassism? She's very selfish. Don't tell her that though, she'll fly into a rage and tell you she's the least selfish person in the world and you should stop being so critical it's selfish of you.

I'm not convinced she's not borderline also.

Yes I was very head over heals in the beginning, that was years and years ago though. I don't know when it truely stopped. I know when I lost faith in her though and that was about 10 years ago. It's been a very long and miserable road. Starting to make more sense now though.

fasttalkingmom
11-26-07, 04:10 AM
See now that's exactly what she said to me. Until she learns to love herself, she can't love someone else. I'm confused as to if she's trying to blow me off or if she actually feels this way. If she actually feels this way I have to assume she's always really felt this way. How/why do you get into a relationship with someone if this is how you feel. Was our whole 19 year marriage based on a lie?

This really sucks!
I've been feeling this way about my almost 20 year marriage. It's one of the things I'm having troubling getting past. I have to keep reminding myself it's only been 3 months give myself time to heal.

fasttalkingmom
11-26-07, 04:26 AM
I could never understand some of my husbands behaviors. I used to say to the friend I vented to " he acts as if he entitled, he seems to feel I owe him or it's my job"

We fought for years over this one issue. He wanted to bring a lunch to work so I'd buy all he needed for that. He wouldn't make a lunch saying he didn't have time, I made in a few times, resenting it. When I told him I needed for him to do it because I had so many other things i had to do in the am to get me and kids out the door, he told me to make it at night. I told him he could make it at night also.

He would have no reaction, I wouldn't make the lunch he went without one. When he got home from work and dinner wasn't in the works he'd be angry saying he had nothing to eat all day because I wouldn't make him a lunch. there where many many times I got so angry I walked out of the house, he'd go without dinner before he'd make himself anything.

ADDrus
11-26-07, 09:26 AM
I could never understand some of my husbands behaviors. I used to say to the friend I vented to " he acts as if he entitled, he seems to feel I owe him or it's my job"
My wife is exactly like this too, only she admits she has issues with entitlement with respect to her parents, but canít see the issues with me. She gets very angry when confronted with the facts.


We fought for years over this one issue. He wanted to bring a lunch to work so I'd buy all he needed for that. He wouldn't make a lunch saying he didn't have time, I made in a few times, resenting it. When I told him I needed for him to do it because I had so many other things i had to do in the am to get me and kids out the door, he told me to make it at night. I told him he could make it at night also.
He would have no reaction, I wouldn't make the lunch he went without one. When he got home from work and dinner wasn't in the works he'd be angry saying he had nothing to eat all day because I wouldn't make him a lunch. there where many many times I got so angry I walked out of the house, he'd go without dinner before he'd make himself anything.
Wow, we have this same issue, she refuses to make her own breakfast, lunch not so much, but breakfast, man Iím the one racing around for the kids, getting them food and lunch, making sure they get their meds and have their bags packed and sheís upstairs sleeping. If I donít make her breakfast, she wonít eat. Then sheíll complain later that she starving. If she does actually make herself food, her choices are pathetic. Fast junk food, whatever. She even come down on a few occasions where breakfast has been late or whatever and said in a very foul voice, ďwell I guess Iíll have to make my own breakfast from now onĒ or something to that effect. For lunches, sheís always ďso busyĒ that she doesnít have time to stop and make something healthy. So sheís asked me to start picking up those cooked chickens from the store. Iíve been buying them now for the last 6 weeks or so. No big deal for me and they are much better than the crap frozen dinner things she normally eats. So of the past 10 or so chickens Iíve bought, sheís carved and made lunch once. All the rest are in the garbage. She expects me to make her chicken sandwiches for lunch. Forget thatÖ.

She doesnít actually verbalize the expectations though. For me it seems very difficult to explain how these things manifest. It seems to be a long complicated series of events that eventually lead to a situation where I find myself slaving to her wants and desires with no real recollection of how I got there. The manipulation is subtle and before you know it boom, there you are taking her breakfast in bed every day (thatís stopped now by the way).

So how long have you known about his narcissism and what steps is he taking to correct it if any and what steps have you taken? If you donít mind me asking.

Does anybody have any books that I should read?

Matt S.
11-26-07, 01:31 PM
Often two cluster 'B' PD's can go together, mine are/were antisocial and narcissistic. I sought treatment by way of force but I learned eventually that i was going to get no better unless I chose to take the right path and let someone help me figure out how to change, in a couple of years I probably won't even have a personality disorder.

fasttalkingmom
11-26-07, 05:42 PM
So how long have you known about his narcissism and what steps is he taking to correct it if any and what steps have you taken? If you donít mind me asking.


Many year ago someone close to me told me he sounds narcissistic and told me a bit about it but I got more infor. on this thread early this morning. He has not and will not take any action to correct anything, not even his Bipolar he stopped taking his meds back in May. I said enough in Aug. and told him he had a month to find some place else to live. Now I'm trying to put myself back together form 24 years of this treatment. Your right it sneaks up on you but I can see also how I allowed it to.

fasttalkingmom
11-26-07, 05:43 PM
Often two cluster 'B' PD's can go together, mine are/were antisocial and narcissistic. I sought treatment by way of force but I learned eventually that i was going to get no better unless I chose to take the right path and let someone help me figure out how to change, in a couple of years I probably won't even have a personality disorder.

Good for you !!

I give you alot of credit for allowing help.

Matt S.
11-26-07, 05:45 PM
It is better than being a complete selfish jerk for the rest of my life.

QueensU_girl
11-29-07, 09:10 PM
re: 8 (ENTITLEMENT)

That's one of the diagnostic criteria, iirc.

A 'Strong sense of entitlement'

(e.g. violates other boundaries to 'take' what they want; always prioritizes the self; entitlement to the point of having NO EMPATHY for others/cold/cruel/rejecting/dismissive esp towards people who have less power/children)

ADDrus
01-25-08, 12:09 AM
Hi QueensU_girl,

I suppose the manifestation of someone who tries to enforce their boundaries against these violations will be met with anger in most cases, correct?

I finally got a meeting today with my wife and her therapist. Wow, the amount of work that is required here is mind boggling. She is so far into denial that I'm truly not sure that things can be rectified. Her therapist said she was proud that she was able to verbalize some things, but she spent the majority of the meeting in a state of quite anger. I think the therapist was made aware of some new things but most of what my wife said came off to me as contradictory, incoherent and generally confused. I'm doing some internal reflections here to see if I have the patience for this. I did find out that they both feel that she is situationally depressed, but it's not severe and doesn't need to be medicated. It's interesting that the situation that causes her depression is the poor state of our relationship which she adamantly refuses to admit any responsibility for. She doesn't want to be labeled anything and resents the fact that I want to attribute some of the difficulties to her ADD OCD Depression or Anxiety (Narcissism never came up). As far as she seems to be concerned the problem is I view her as somehow flawed, therefore I don't have a high opinion of her, therefore she's depressed. (what I actually think doesn't factor in as she has already formed her opinion based on me referring to the ADD/OCD etc. the mere mention by me of any of these things would be a hot button)

I'm thinking this is related to the whole grandiose sense of self and I don't seem in her mind to agree with her. Does this make sense?

QueensU_girl
01-27-08, 11:58 AM
re: #15, line #1

You are absolutely correct, ADDrus.

I would expect to encounter (a) rage/hostility, (b) indignation [self-righteousness], (c) statements of minimizing the other person's worth or the impact of hurtful things, (d) 'black or white thinking' and (e) extreme "overvaluation [of one person] with concurrent extreme 'devaluation" of the other person [putting YOU down] and (f) various emotional manipulations.

NB It seems there is the desire to label this as Anxiety and Depression. Once you remove the depression, you will still have a spouse with a Personality Disorder.

As soon as you start to do deeper work and the Counsellor figures out it is PD at work (more than just Depression or Anxiety), your Wife will likely want to stop therapy. PDs take a while to diagnostically figure out, and I guess you haven't given the counsellour enough info about your Wife.

(Sheesh, if the Therapist had READ everything you've written HERE, They'd have your Wife figured out *pretty fast*!)

Grandiose sense of self generally doesn't happen in Depression.

NB Dr. Martha Stout, in her book called "Myth of Sanity" pretty clearly states that -- a patient who cannot accept any "responsibility" and remain in "denial" and "resentful" for their problems, is pretty hopeless.

Why? They have no "personal power" to seek out change. They are choosing 'victimhood' over personal growth and increased self-awareness/mastery.

I really recommend your wife look into a DBT program. It is the only proven treatment for improving the functioning of some people with PDs.


There are a few day programs here in Toronto.

ADDrus
01-27-08, 10:52 PM
I would expect to encounter (a) rage/hostility, (b) indignation [self-righteousness], (c) statements of minimizing the other person's worth or the impact of hurtful things, (d) 'black or white thinking' and (e) extreme "overvaluation [of one person] with concurrent extreme 'devaluation" of the other person [putting YOU down] and (f) various emotional manipulations.

NB It seems there is the desire to label this as Anxiety and Depression. Once you remove the depression, you will still have a spouse with a Personality Disorder.



I concur, my wife and her Counselor have been working together since Oct 2006 and they still havenít figured anything worthwhile out. You know, they were adamant that it was not clinical depression even though it has been around for years and it is being managed adequately even though the marriage is on the brink of collapse and the relationship problems between her and me and her kids and her parents have not gotten any better. I could see if you had to have everybody admire and agree with you and people didnít, this would cause anxiety, depression and ongoing relationship issue.<O:p


As soon as you start to do deeper work and the Counsellor figures out it is PD at work (more than just Depression or Anxiety), your Wife will likely want to stop therapy. PDs take a while to diagnostically figure out, and I guess you haven't given the counsellour enough info about your Wife.


Yes, Iím already anticipating this. She will no doubt find fault with the Counselor and stop going. Itís already happened in the past. This one is very ďblahĒ. She doesnít appear to move that fast and will not challenge her way of thinking. Doesnít want to call her on anything. I signed off on the ok for her to contact my counselor, my counselorís suggestion, and Iím sure sheís going to get an earful. I see my counselor tomorrow.


(Sheesh, if the Therapist had READ everything you've written HERE, They'd have your Wife figured out *pretty fast*!)<O:p


Yes well, If I show her all this, she will be obliged to show it too my wife and that will just increase the anger and resentment she has for me as here I go trying to label her again. I canít see anything good coming from that. It seems that it will come out in due time. I seriously donít know if I have the patience for it though.


Grandiose sense of self generally doesn't happen in Depression.
<O:p
</O:p
Iím not sure sheís picked up on this yet though. I see it, but that doesnít seem to count for much.


NB Dr. Martha Stout, in her book called "Myth of Sanity" pretty clearly states that -- a patient who cannot accept any "responsibility" and remain in "denial" and "resentful" for their problems, is pretty hopeless.

Why? They have no "personal power" to seek out change. They are choosing 'victimhood' over personal growth and increased self-awareness/mastery.

I really recommend your wife look into a DBT program. It is the only proven treatment for improving the functioning of some people with PDs.
<O:p

</O:pThis of course would require her to admit that she has a problem and needs to take some responsibility for it. This is the goal, Iím just not sure that itís attainable.

Matt S.
02-21-08, 10:59 AM
Just something off-topic, I posted honestly about this when?


My personality was a surprise to someone who comes here regularly as a Guest in the recent future and I am kind of baffled as to why.

Oh well, must not be too narcissistic because the reality is that I don't care what other people think about me.

Their distorted perception in no way effects my distorted perception, I mean mine is certainly less distorted, in my opinion.


this thread is How OLD???

Oh Well, Like I alway say, if it doesn't apply to me then let it fly past me.

Matt S.
02-22-08, 02:00 AM
I decided to give in since I am having a manic episode and revive my narcissism thread.

I am feeling narcissistic to the extreme right now because of my elated mood. I am thinking about just me and obsessing because it is cold and I am sensitive to cold weather, anyone who gets manic oughta know that sensitivity (this excludes irritability that occurs in severe cases of Borderline Personality Disorder and get misdiagnosed as "hypomanic") because everything just gets so enhanced and beautiful.

I am happy right now. The thought of this old game I used to play as a teenager called Mortal Kombat popped into my superior brain right now Flawless Victory...

Sense of compassion

I don't know I am on a roll tonight I am coming up with thread ideas right now.

Matt S.
02-22-08, 02:21 PM
I was youtube-ing it since I am bored and it is snowing and found a clip from the movie Jawbreaker from like 1999 I think and one of the characters (Rose McGowen, man she is beautiful) was a narcissist in the malignant sense you know evil and I was tempted to post the video clip which is a cute example of how a narcissist operates :D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v4yOAbl4fM&feature=related

ADDrus
02-23-08, 12:27 AM
Hi Matt,

I'm still here! Nice link, very scary :eek:

Matt S.
02-23-08, 12:28 AM
Love the black haired girl personally. She was the malignant narcissist of the movie, killed someone, covered up the crime, didn't care, dominated, controlled, terrorized three girls into silence. I thought it was a cute movie.

reesah
02-23-08, 12:35 AM
I don't really understand this disorder. what do they get out of it? how is attention from people they look down on, so validating to them? it just seems strange to me

Matt S.
02-23-08, 12:37 AM
Malignant Narcissists are more like sociopaths actually they are basically the same, except there's more entitlement versus the simple I don't care.

There are a few types of Narcissists. For some it is admiration for others it is dominance.

ADDrus
02-23-08, 12:55 AM
While I'm here I might as well post an update.

I went to our second meeting this past week and we made some progress, well me and the therapist anyway. My SO had a huge blow up with me, started swearing and insulting me getting in my face, no physical, though I did feel threatened.

When we got to our session the therapist asked how the past month was (she was on a work holiday so we couldn't meet more often). My SO said, oh it went about the same. The therapist then asked me, I told her it was much worse, she asked why and I told the whole story about the explosion and her anger and told her that the behavior would not be tolerated in the future and any recurrence would result in me leaving the room/house/car or whatever. She admitted the swearing and minimized the anger and the name calling, but I did get the therapist to understand that this wasn't an isolated case by citing many many examples of problems with anger and not just with me.

Well, that got their attention, we then explored some stuff and discovered that the anger and resentments seem to stem from her black and white thinking and I'm talking severe polarization. I'm in a black box and considered wrong and everything I say and do is wrong.

This also allows her to do as she please with respect of me. So I can be yelled and sworn at and called names while she feels no remorse. She feels she has done nothing wrong and honestly believes this. The therapist didn't pull any punches here, she told her this is the same thinking that allows men to abuse women. She still didn't seem to connect on this though, didn't take it to heart or own it as Dr. Phil would say.

They discussed the black and white thinking in past sessions (my SO has been seeing her for a year and a half). I don't think she realized the extent of the problem or the anger/abuse issues. Of course my SO would never bring this up alone, that's for sure.

So that's where we sit for 2 weeks, at this point we aren't talking unless the kids are around or we get a visitor. There has been no sign of an apology for anything and I don't think she believes she owes me one.

I'm anticipating the "excuse" to discontinue therapy. I'm fulling expecting it prior to our next meeting.

She only really had one issue with me saying something that she felt was disrespectful or more accurately made her look bad in front of the kids. I agreed that I might be guilty of this behavior and agreed to stop and she agreed to consult me before making "family" or kid decisions. We'll have to see how it goes.

So, I made progress with the therapist and this was my original goal. I don't think the therapist could help her as I didn't feel she was getting all the information and now she is, step 1 done!

ADDrus
02-23-08, 01:00 AM
Love the black haired girl personally. She was the malignant narcissist of the movie, killed someone, covered up the crime, didn't care, dominated, controlled, terrorized three girls into silence. I thought it was a cute movie.

I got that from the clip, never saw the movie though. Might have to pick it up just for the research!

Matt S.
02-23-08, 04:19 PM
While I'm here I might as well post an update.

I went to our second meeting this past week and we made some progress, well me and the therapist anyway. My SO had a huge blow up with me, started swearing and insulting me getting in my face, no physical, though I did feel threatened.

When we got to our session the therapist asked how the past month was (she was on a work holiday so we couldn't meet more often). My SO said, oh it went about the same. The therapist then asked me, I told her it was much worse, she asked why and I told the whole story about the explosion and her anger and told her that the behavior would not be tolerated in the future and any recurrence would result in me leaving the room/house/car or whatever. She admitted the swearing and minimized the anger and the name calling, but I did get the therapist to understand that this wasn't an isolated case by citing many many examples of problems with anger and not just with me.

Well, that got their attention, we then explored some stuff and discovered that the anger and resentments seem to stem from her black and white thinking and I'm talking severe polarization. I'm in a black box and considered wrong and everything I say and do is wrong.

This also allows her to do as she please with respect of me. So I can be yelled and sworn at and called names while she feels no remorse. She feels she has done nothing wrong and honestly believes this. The therapist didn't pull any punches here, she told her this is the same thinking that allows men to abuse women. She still didn't seem to connect on this though, didn't take it to heart or own it as Dr. Phil would say.

They discussed the black and white thinking in past sessions (my SO has been seeing her for a year and a half). I don't think she realized the extent of the problem or the anger/abuse issues. Of course my SO would never bring this up alone, that's for sure.

So that's where we sit for 2 weeks, at this point we aren't talking unless the kids are around or we get a visitor. There has been no sign of an apology for anything and I don't think she believes she owes me one.

I'm anticipating the "excuse" to discontinue therapy. I'm fulling expecting it prior to our next meeting.

She only really had one issue with me saying something that she felt was disrespectful or more accurately made her look bad in front of the kids. I agreed that I might be guilty of this behavior and agreed to stop and she agreed to consult me before making "family" or kid decisions. We'll have to see how it goes.

So, I made progress with the therapist and this was my original goal. I don't think the therapist could help her as I didn't feel she was getting all the information and now she is, step 1 done!


That is a beautiful step, but considering your description of your wife, she will most likely go off about feeling "attacked" and possibly discontinue therapy or find some other way to turn it on you. The miracle behind "splitting" in the original "black and white" sense or the sense that Marsha Linehan describes as "Staff splitting" common in BPD, is that it seems to predominate their behavior and it is sickening how clever they can be about it too.

With that being said, therapists are generally knowledgeable on how to combat that effectively and they are aware of it so it helps.

NPD's believe nothing is wrong and often lie about anything bad in their life or any prescence of a legit mental illness, they are entitled and special. BPD's tend to validate their behavior because they had a "horrible" life and they get overdiagnosed with things, drama queens, ASPD's are like that too, with them it is more of a matter of rules not applying to them in society because of their life and they see nothing wrong with returning the favor. HPD's are generally shallow and just want to be the center of attention, the people that you can tell are fakes, it is an over compensation from a lack of attention usually or they have always been that way.

People with one cluster B PD (Narcissistic, Antisocial, Borderline and Histrionic) generally have symptoms of the others there is a big overlap.

Now I know I went off topic but if your wife has one PD which it would seem so, you should look them all up and read about them because I have a cluster B PD myself and I show symptoms of them all, so that may help.