I recently found out about a relatively unique class of drugs called Selective Seretonin Re-uptake Enhancers, of which the only marketed drug is Stablon. It is not yet available in the United States, only in Europe. I was wondering if anyone here has tried this and had success?? I understand it has stimulant properties as well.

Found it mildly focusing, though not a panacea for ADD symptoms. Lowering serotonin will potentiate dopaminergic transmission. A good antidepressant while I had it, but was pretty expensive for me to acquire. More anxiolytic than anything.

This drug is yet another thing to give the lie to the serotonin hypothesis of depression and the usefulness of SSRIs, btw, most of which perform barely better than placebo in clinical trials. Like SSRIs, tianeptine increases NGF and will regenerate the hippocampus.

You'll probably find more about this on other boards, dr-bob perhaps.

I want to try stablon I bet that'd be a manic episode for me, I like them I admit it.

The company that makes it is probably not happy about the common rejection of their other strange drug, Amineptine. Stimulants are bad, so they made an Anti-anti-stimulant instead. After all, two rights don't make a wrong.

An anti-anti-stimulant that is bizarre.

<B><BIG>Tianeptine is reported (http://tianeptine.com/adhd.html) to be moderately useful in treating Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/adhd.html)). At present, millions of (mainly) American school students diagnosed with ADHD take amphetamines (http://www.amphetamines.com/refs/index.html) under different guises and innocent-sounding labels. Amphetamine adverts can be alluring: "Try Adderall (http://www.amphetamines.com/adderall/adderallad.html)" [amphetamine/dextroamphetamine salts] and "soar confidently into summer and the new year". Drug-induced bouts of focused intensity may perhaps be educationally useful, occasionally; but critics (http://www.breggin.com/) argue that such products are prescribed at least in part as instruments of social control. ADHD itself may not wholly be a diagnostic artefact of modern medicine; yet nor is ADHD a recognised diagnostic entity in cultures where children aren't compelled to sit unnaturally immobilised in classrooms for 6-8 hours each day performing rituals alien to their ancestral environment. As if to feed the darkest suspicions of anti-psychiatry (http://www.antipsychiatry.org/) advocates, the majority (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/bigpharma/dsm-doctors.html) of the medical elite involved in classifying psychiatric disorders via DSM-IV (http://biopsychiatry.com/dsm-iv.htm) have close ties to the drug companies (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/drugcompanies/index.html). In consequence, American children (http://amphetamines.com/methylphenidate/ritalinkid.html) consume some 90% of the world's Ritalin (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/methcomp.htm). In fairness, a powerful case can be made that all forms of distress should be pathologised and treated. The medicalisation (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/medication.html) of everyday life may ultimately lead to a happier world. But with ADHD, potentially toxic (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/amphetamine/stimulants.html) amphetamine-based products are commonly (ab)used to curb the exuberance and crush the spirit of innumerable school students for purposes beyond the welfare of the "paediatric patient". The long-term effects of tianeptine use on high-spirited children have not been properly evaluated. Its administration is known to promote attentional focus in cats (http://tianeptine.com/cats.html). At worst, tianeptine may be a less harmful option than existing amphetamine-based drugs. A more radical alternative might be to stop pharmaceutical experimentation (http://www.biopsychiatry.com/antipsychotics/index.html) on children until the neurobiology of ADHD is adequately understood. </B>


[From www.tianeptine.com (http://www.tianeptine.com)]


<CENTER><BIG>Tianeptine as a slightly effective therapeutic option
for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder</BIG>
<SMALL>by
Niederhofer H.
Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
Regional Hospital Bozen, Bolzano, Italy.
helmutniederhofer@yahoo.de
Neuropsychobiology. 2004;49(3):130-3. </SMALL>

ABSTRACT</CENTER>



<BIG><BIG>O</BIG></BIG>BJECTIVE: Because of the hypotonic side effect of clonidine, the use of tianeptine was studied as an alternative because of its longer excretion half-life, decreased sedative side effects and more selective binding profile. METHOD: We rated sixty-eight psychiatric outpatients diagnosed with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) at baseline and while taking tianeptine to determine its efficacy as a treatment for ADHD and used comparisons of Conners' parent ratings within each subject to measure behavioral changes in the subjects. RESULTS: During tianeptine treatment, patients' mean scores improved significantly overall, and also for Conners' Hyperactivity, Inattention and Immaturity factors. CONCLUSIONS: This preliminary study indicates that tianeptine might be a slightly effective beneficial and useful treatment for ADHD, reducing hyperactive behaviors and enabling greater attentional ability with minimal side effects.
</BIG>

Wow, this sounds very promising. I wonder how many people on this board have tried it?

I have a OCD personality (not OCD in particular) along with social anxiouty/phobia that often can trigger sensory overload which results in both the dulling of the senses (cognition) as well as making it harder to focus on something. On Zoloft I fount these problems were helped but it made it harder to focus and my sensory cognition seemed a bit dulled out. I ordered this online and look forward to giving this a try.

Only areas of concern include:

1) The fact that it's in the Tricyclic Family. Although an atypical tricyclic with diff. properties and not even referred to a Tricyclic, this raises a redflag. However, while searching this, it has nothing really in common with your typical tricyclics and has a very small side effect profile.

2) Possible Exacerbation of OCD? It supposedly helps with Enhancing the Serotonin reuptake (which subsequently lowers the serotonin in the synapse between the 2 nueron cells) and uptake so I'll give it a try.

3) Can it cause over excitability of the glutamate system as a peripheral effect?

Update 4th day of taking Stablon:

I was able to order Stablon online and took 1 12.5 mg pill in the evening the 1st day. The next 2 days I've taken 3 12.5 mg pills (recommended dosage many people take since the half life is 2.5 hours. Today, I've only taken 1 pill due to side effects.


My Experiences so far:
All this crap about Stablon not causing sedation isn't true. The tiredness that it gave me caused me to sleep over 10 hours after the 2nd day of taking it and I was late for work.

At work today (I was on time barely), I had a very difficult time getting through the day. I felt like lying down and going to sleep. While I felt very calm/balanced (gave a sort of tonic effect), I felt drained and depleted of energy and had a very difficult time conversing with people (couldn't keep up with a conversation and think what to say quick enough). I felt like a space cadet through most of the day and am very disappointed and considering just going back to Zoloft, which I took on a consistent basis last summer (although I'll have to go through 2 weeks of not feeling well once again if I'm to get back on it).

Zoloft was beneficial in dealing with the depression/social anxiouty (which spurs on OCD thinking and withdrawal from the environment around me-->being a space cadet and overly consumed by my thoughts). However, the problem with it was lack of drive and motivation (at least having the problem listed in the previous sentence can actually give me drive/motivation and self-inhibition when appropriate) and less focused attention (resulting in forgetfullness).

Yeah the sedation sucks. It can be good if you're feeling agitated, though. I find it works well for social anxiety, especially the physical symptoms of it. However it didn't make me talk more, I was more comfortable than ever just remaining silent cause the anxiety wasn't there, but it can smooth the way if you're able to chit-chat ordinarily.

I feel that after taking it a while that the sedation isn't as pronounced, and maybe a bit of coffee or another stimulant would help. It certainly didn't help me with motivation, maybe even made me less motivated since I am somewhat driven by anxiety, actually. I feel like this could be similar to you, as being OCD personality is likely a compoensatory way to deal with the shortcomings of ADD. Maybe just getting your ADD treated will help you with it. It certainly helps with my social anxiety because I can keep up with conversations more.

Flatlinez, have you ever tried Zoloft and how'd that effect you? I'm kind of driven by anxiouty as well.

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Last Aug. to beginning of this Jan. I ran through a number of ADHD drugs and was able to compare the mechanisms of action along with how I reacted to them. The ADHD drugs I tried had benefits but also a tradeoff that was just too much. For instance, I tried Strattera (a tired/strung out fatigue, felt flat, very anti-social), Provigil (felt spacey and didn't really help concentrate), Desoxyn (in my short trial I felt SSRI like side effects mixed in with that I felt from Dexedrine; made the benefit of able to cool/casually put out my opinion but didn't feel right), Dexedrine (like Desoxyn but very flat antisocial still), ritalin (feel inhibited/control of thoughts yet not like socializing and can be obsessive). From my trials and ADD tests (didn't show ADHD but did show difficulty regulating attention; it's possible that my ADD can be OCD related which is probably caused by Dysthymia/social anxiouty for the most part).

I don't know what to do except quit drugs all together and then where am I at with the same problem as before.

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So, keep in mind that all of this is my own experience, and your experience will certainly depend on yourself.

I have not tried Zoloft myself, but it is promising to hear that it helped you with your symptoms. I know what it's like to be unmotivated, because I had a similar experience while taking Strattera long-term. I feel that adding another medicine which acts on dopamine would have helped me with motivation and follow-through, as dopamine is associated with "wanting" and goal-seeking behavior. I have found this to be true in my trials of the stimulant drugs, which do act on dopamine, as I become more driven to complete a task, even sometimes to a point where it becomes stressful or compulsive (Stablon helps me at this point). There are non-stimulant medicines which act on dopamine, but this is best discussed with your doctor.

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">My doctor simply listens and tries to monopolize the conversation the whole time in an intent to take minutes off the clock and get onto the next patient. Absolutely no help whatsoever.

By the way, trial on Stablon has ended. I've decided to just store the remaining pills and go back to Zoloft taking 1/2 of a 25 mg pill at 6:00 each evening at least until I get my life back together. In the meantime, I'll keep on searching for some other options such as:

Hormone therapy (tests needed)
Adaptogens for the HPA system (tests needed)
-some sort of way to heghten the receptors that cortisol triggers
should provide a feedback cycle to the HPA system so not too
overactive
seeing a regular doctor and get real tests done on insulin and maybe seeing an endocrinologist sometime
Some sort of mood brightener
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Sounds like a good plan. Just a thought, Wellbutrin is probably a bad idea isn't it?

Zoloft has helped by OCD/Social Anxiety greatly. I'm going to increase end of March see if there are more benefits to be had. No side effects. This is the first time I stayed on an SSRI whole heartedly without terrible side effects! (The first few days I felt like crap though - flu/fever like)

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Sounds like a good plan. Just a thought, Wellbutrin is probably a bad idea isn't it?

I tried it for a short period of time and noticed that it didn't necessarily make me freindlier like the Zoloft did. It kind of had a similar effect on my social anxiouty/dysthymia that the stimulants did but didn't really make me very alert. In fact, I felt it made me forgetful and dazed.

There was a seperate thread on this forum (I believe on some page of the Ritalin section) in which everyone started talking about the difference between agonists (Amphetamines like dexedrine and adderall while considered primarily agonistic and partially inhibitory) and inhibitors (Methylphenidates like Ritalin). In this conversation Wellbutrin was brought up and it seems that Wellbutrin works more as a moderator of Dopamine+Norepinipherine meaning it inhibits these chemicals (like the Methylphenidates only in a more controlled/slower fashion) but also may directly block more from being released (thus releasing and inhibiting reuptake in a controlled manner). However, it is this mechanism of action that may account for why I the benefits didn't outweight the tradeoff for me at least.
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Zoloft has helped by OCD/Social Anxiety greatly. I'm going to increase end of March see if there are more benefits to be had. No side effects. This is the first time I stayed on an SSRI whole heartedly without terrible side effects! (The first few days I felt like crap though - flu/fever like)

I try and get by on the lowest dose possibly cause while it's beneficial in terms of making me feel less inhibited and more in a comfort zone emotionally, it also has some tradeoff.
If this had a stimulatory effect with the exact same type of tradeoff, while I wouldn't be totally happy, it would at least be something I could more respectfully get through a work day with.

Perhaps it is possible to see someone about taking essential amino acids. I don't know how well established this is in the medical community, however.

The company that makes it is probably not happy about the common rejection of their other strange drug, Amineptine. Stimulants are bad, so they made an Anti-anti-stimulant instead. After all, two rights don't make a wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amineptine

I used amineptine up to 200 mg back when it was still in production. Maybe in high doses it can be abused or has stimulant action but in typical doses it a mild drug relative free of side effects.

I think it was ravers who would snort Amineptine. Atleast, I read that somewhere.

As for Tianeptine, it gets my thumbs up for making me very mellow.

i've been using tianeptine for about a month. it really is a mellowing anxiolytic. <script>play_w2("A0355375")</script><object style="margin: 3px 3px 5px;" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,0,0" width="10" height="13">
</object>it wasn't remotely exhausting for me, if anything it transiently uplifts your mood albeit very mildly. i'm also mildly asthmatic and it really, really helps me breath. i've tried SSRIs and that experiment ended quickly because i had to start taking an inhaler again. interestingly, if you google tianeptine + asthma, you'll read about an astounding number of people who have seen relief from it. of course, don't expect to see it in the US anytime soon. off-patent and side-effect free? read the journal abstracts and you'll see a drug that would gattling gun Singulair.

i import my supply from overseas and it is pricey. the recommended dosage of 12.5 x 3 is way too low. the half-life is short and you'll feel an acute dose for maybe 90 minutes. ideally i'd want to take one every 90 minutes but that would be prohibitively expensive. the mood-uplift is midly dopaminergic without the edge of an amphetamine (but also 1/10th the potency). notably, tianeptine attenuates the release of norepinephrine in several brain regions interacting with HPA axis.

i can see why this is conceptually such an incredible drug (literally no side-effects and i've tried well over 20 different medicines - everything from stims to the lamotrigine i take for BP II - so i know the acute effect of tianeptine is not my imagination).

would i recommend it? yes, but only as an adjunctive medicine. be warry of some of the circulating studies on how effective this is in MDD, i think i read somewhere that one of the company-sponsored efficacy tests skewed the data so the placebo group had an 80% response rate

I found Tianeptine fast acting (noticed a slight pleasant effect from the first dose) but after several months it didnt appear to work on my OCD type symptoms. Though it seemed to work well together with dex on my ADHD symptoms.

I think the USA based drug companies and a few of the European based ones as well, are a bit threatened by Tianeptine, as it has pulls the rug from under their long held views on the brain with depression and shows they have little clue about how SSRI's work on depression and they are just dumb monkeys, stabbing in the dark, like the rest of us.

Many a professors claim to fame may eventually get shown to be bull**** due to that Tianeptine? They may now wish they had never taken Amineptine off the market and spurred Servier on to coming up with Tianeptine (the anti anti stimulant....I like that one!) . Some of us have known Tianeptines earlier model, amineptine, to be a very useful drug for ADHD, an antidepressant dopamergic that supports good sleep and appetite.

It beats buproprion hands down and I have read that in South America it was making large in roads into the Ritalin market . Some of us have not forgotten the regulators mostly from the USA getting rid of Amineptine after making up, blown out of all proportion, claims on its addictive liability and we know thay got a lot of support from the morally self righteuous when it came out that it had a tendency to facilitate the orgasmic response, particularly in women (ohh those naughty French).

Well the chickens may yet come home to roost for those lieing regulators with Tianeptine!

Having not felt the greatest on SSRI's, but not going manic, and having a combination of issues that baffle my doctors about whether I'm bipolar or not, or having ADHD symptoms, this sounds like it could be a good drug.

What's clear is I have an anxiety disorder, with dysthymia, and the anxiolytic effect might be really nice. I was also told to try zoloft too.

Anyone else have experience with this drug? I've seen a few studies on it and efficacy on ADD.