Back in the 80's, I was sent to a drug and alcohol tx center far away from my home. I was 19.
The treatment center's philosophy was loosely based on Synanon, which used a very confrontational approach to "break" people. Most of the people there were court commited men in thier 30's and 40's.
I was there for about 9 months. It was the worst experience of my life. The other patients were pretty much in charge, and the "councelers" just went along. I became the group scapegoat. I was yelled at, threatened, and called names during "group therapy" every day for hours. All my clothes were stolen, and it was snow country and winter, so I couldn't leave. the shoes they gave me had in insoles, and I had no socks. My feet were a literal bloody mess.
I left that place as soon as I found a job and a place to live. I weighed less than 90 pounds. They didn't allow me to eat sometimes. I was not allowed to have unsupervised contact with anyone from the outside, not even my parents.
I still have addiction issues, but can't seem to go to 12 step meetings with out total panic. I seldom, if ever say anything. I am terrified of any kind of confrontation and just freeze up when that happens.
My pdoc says that this experience has caused me to have PTSD. I also have ADHD and bipolar ll, but am newly diagnosed.
Sometimes I think that the people in the tx center were right, and that the biggest favor I could do for anyone is to just blow my brains out, because I am such a worthless, drain on society kind of person. I adamently (sp?) refuse to act on that feeling though. Been there, done that, in '87. The gun jamed.
Anyhow, sorry to ramble on here, but what do you guys think? Is this PTSD, or something else? From the descriptions I've read, my experience doesn't really fit the criteria. It's not like my life was in danger or anything. They just didn't like me for whatever reason, and were verbaly abusive. Most of them are dead now, so I don't know why I let it bother me so much.

Sounds pretty typical of the old school "mental hospitals" and "treatment programs" I've heard of.

I have a friend who was hospitalized for 3 years in the 1980s (Canada's version of the "state hospital) for "anorexia" and "borderline" (a label often given to PTSD people b/c of their trauma histories) and her experience is pretty similar to yours.

They couldn't see that her family was the real problems. Yeesh.

The only good it did was protect her from her sexual abuser grandpa (abused ALL 4 of the granddaughters) and violent dad and denial-mode mom.

Have you read or seen Girl Interrupted?
Sounds like you met all the personality disordered patients. ;) Such types can tend to 'hijack' therapy groups. Unskilled staff would not manage that well, yup.

Hasn't Synanon been closed down or been sued into oblivion or something?

I have never heard of them in terms of a "valid" treatment. They were a scam, I thought. (I dunno b/c we don't have them in Canada.)

NB
1. PTSD people often struggle with addictions. (Trying to re-regulate their affective and arousal systems.)
2. A lot of PTSDers also have ADD problems.
3. I would bet your diagnosis could be DES-NOS (disorder of extreme stress - not otherwise specified). PTSD changes over time and DES is a more chronic version of it. e.g. also called "complex PTSD".

I'll post the criteria in a moment.

www.traumacenter.org/products/pdf_files/DESNOS.pdf


As you can see: they mention "problems with affect regulation" (modulating stress; bodily/autonomic over-arousal) and "problems with attention", so there's some ADD-type overlap.

I agree with Queens UGirl she covered about everything I would've. DES-NOS is probably the most accurate because with 'Complex PTSD' the personality literally disintegrates.

Thank you both for your replies.
That link about DESNOS was an eye opener. I haven't read the whole thing, but dang, the symptom part was way too acurate.
I hadn't thought about the other issues of abuse in my life as being conected, or the pretty extreem and chronic stress that I have lived with for most of my adult life as a contributing factor. Sheesh. With my history, and all the co-morbid stuff, the prognosis looks rather grim, asuming that this is all correct. Lord knows. All I know is that I'm a mess, but a functional mess. I just don't know how much longer I can hold it together. I'll go back and read the treatment section and gorge on chocolate.
Funny. I weigh around 130, and at 5'6, I am considered thin. I saw a picture taken of me taken shortly after treatment. I looked like I had anorexia. I guess the first step, for me at least, is facing the truth that what happened to me really does qualify as abuse.
Oh, by the way, yes, Synanon is long gone, but the ideas are far from gone. Children are still being treated in ways much worse than what I went through in some of the "bootcamp" type treatments. I understand that most legitiate drug/alcohol rehabs no longer use these methods, but I'd rather die a drunk on the streets than go into any of those places ever again.

I've been accused of having anorexia before. A person can become so stressed that their hypothalamus sort of shuts down. That is one part of the brain that controls hunger. (The Four Fs: feeding, fighting, fleeing and, well, you can guess the other F.)

re: trauma
Trauma tends to be cumulative and it also tends to "cluster". See PAGE FOUR (4) in the Link below.

http://www.nacoa.org/pdfs/Anda%20NACoA%20Review_web.pdf

For example, if you look at something like The ACE Study (adverse childhood experiences study), they found this outcome _repeatedly_.

Early life stuff tends to set people up for various reasons: one being that it is hard to establish "boundaries" and hard for people to protect themselves when people they should have been able to trust (often caretakers with authority) have treated them poorly.

re: bootcamps

There is a whole "for profit" industry in Bootcamps. The research, however, disproves that "tough love" works.

People need to learn self care and mindfulness and how to self-soothe (to return to normal levels of activation/stress), rather than being beaten up by Bootcamp Staff.

Bootcamps teach unrealistic lessons: for example, how inappropriate to teach kids/people that 'might makes right'. It is impractical in that as grownups in "real life" -- they can't negotiate with their Boss by getting physical and dominating others with bullying type methods. They need language and communication and negotiation skills and emotional regulation skills, not fisty cuffs.

Kids just come out hating Authority Figures (can you say 1-way ticket to jail and problems with cops/bosses/rules?) or fearing Authority Figures (anxiety/avoidance; leads to a lifetime of being taken advantage of/controlled by angry or manipulative people/codependency) even more. No benefits there!

Boot camps miss the understanding that many of the kids that go to them have missed developmental needs. :S In short, they don't understand child development. :P

~Emma (putting her public health nursing education to good use; sadly, i did not learn this in school)

Interesting article. I just scaned it- out of ritalin, so it's hard to read right now, but it does help to make sense of my life- and how all that stuff affected me.
By the way, I was not, and never have been anorexic. I'm just one of those people who need to eat a lot in order to maintain my weight. I have always been this way. The stupid people at the tx center thought that I was trying to get attention by eating...like I wanted that! I was hungry all the time I was there, but they decided that "portion control" was an "important" part of my recovery. Going from 120 pounds to 85 pounds does not seem to me a symptom of someone who eats too much. Of course there was no medical supervision. Idiots. The really sad thing is that this sort of thing is still happening to the children of well meaning parents who are desperate for help.
Sorry for the rant. It's been 26 years. Sheesh, you'd think I'd be over this by now.

re last sentence

Please don't say that to yourself. (For starters, it is "low empathy" and "judging" and blaming.)

Unprocessed trauma sits like undigested food in the stomach. Keeps coming back as 'heartburn' and 'regurg' and ulcers and nausea -- until it is processed properly.

No, I do NOT think you SHOULD 'be over it by now".

That is one BIG point in the ACE STUDY articles, in fact!! *LOL*

They mention that people's mental and physical and emotional were being severely affected by untreated trauma -- even "more than 50 years later".

Trauma gets into the non-verbal emotions and into the bodily systems (stress circuits) and keeps on affecting people.

In many cases, I see it affecting subsequent generations as well via parenting issues.

Thanks. You're right. I saw my pdoc today. She is upping my depakote, and I'll see her in a week. She planning on doing EMDR (I think I have that right.) to begin processing some of the tx center stuff. She didn't think I should be "over it" either.

I found EMDR made me worse. (There are reasons for that though.)

I found it gave me nightmares, etc.

------

YMMV. Some people seem to get help from it.

I guess try it and see how it goes. It might be just the thing to help you.

PM me if you need more info on anything.

~Emma

"Should" can be such a dangerous word. We so often use it to torture and degrade ourselves. You don't don't deserve that from anyone else and you certainly deserve better from youself. :)

I'm so sorry you went through that horrible experience. I don't know about EMDR but I think that it's very useful to "feel your feelings" about traumatic events, realize that your feelings are valid and warranted, then begin the process of letting them go. You are not responsible for these people's actions. Nothing you could have done would have justified that kind of treatment. But you need to take care of you now and not letting them continue to torture you and hold you back is definitely part of that. Try not to let those horrible people/ that horrible experience hold you back from getting the treatment you need and deserve.

Reviewing your technical diagnosis (diagnoses... uh, the plural whatever it is! Lol) and being hard on yourself about it and allowing it to make you feel hopeless is in no way productive. Doesn't help you, doesn't help the situation... no good can come of it.
Don't worry about what the paperwork says about you. Try to focus on doing whatever you can to cope with your feelings and know that each step you take puts you one closer to being ok and more functional. As long as you don't give up, it's not hopeless. :)

Thanks to you both for your input/encouragement. It is becomming more and more clear to me how hard I have been on myself over the years, thinking of myself as a failure, striving for perfection in everything and avoiding so much of life because I have been so afraid.
The things that really matter have stayed intact: my marriage of 24 years, my much healed relationship with my parents, the fact that I have been successful in the same carreer for 28 years, and I am very good at what I do, the fact that we have raised two children, a daughter, 22, who is doing well, and a son, 17, who is struggling, but knows that he's loved. He will be OK in time.
In many ways, this is all rather incredible, considering my background. I have worked hard in all these areas, despite the alcoholism, past abuse, and undiagnosed, untreated problems. Toss in a couple of (still undiagnosed, but I'm sure of discalcula.) LD's, and you get the picture. If nothing else, I am a survivor, and for the most part, I have my priorities in order. My hope is that the meds with decrease the strain, and make it more possible to heal.

Besing really hard on myself, obsessive guilt, and such have definitely been a very difficult area for me.

You are most decidedly *not* and nowhere near a failure as shown by the examples you gave here. You've managed things that many "normal" (:P) people have a hard time dealing with *plus* you've done it with a big fat monkey on your back! Great job! Obviously you're a capable person and can handle life. Being able to function is a big goal for many of us. I think you're ahead of the game on that front. :)

Sounds like you've been really good at taking care of others. Helping your son is important but of course you can't control what other people think and do, you just hafta do your best with it and let it take its course.

Now it's time to focus more on taking care of yourself. :) Sounds like you're finally aknowledging the areas you have trouble with and the things that are holding you back. That plus forgiving and accepting yourself are big steps that clear the way for lasting self-improvement.

And I agree, meds are definitely good for "lightening the load" and evening out the playing field a bit. A little help is definitely a good thing. :)

Today is the day my pdoc will begin EMDT (R? Whatever. The eye movement thing.) I'm mostly thinking it sounds like BS, but she says that she has a lot of experience using it and that a lot of people have been helped. Sure. I guess we'll see. Hopefully it won't stir up all kinds of uh, stuff, and make me feel worse.

It's weird, because when I talk about it, it's just unemotional reporting about what happened. But if I write about it.... My heart pounds, I get a cold sweat, and usually end up with pretty severe alcohol cravings. I don't think that talking or writing about it has been particularly helpful, except in the sense that other people have validated that what happened was very wrong.

I should be at work by now, but I'm procrastinating. I haven't done anything at all this morning but drink coffee, smoke, and poke about on the web. Oh well. I'll get there eventually.

I posted this in another place... It's easier to just cut and paste:

"Went to Pdoc appt. She did kind of an introductory EMDR thing with me for PTSD. We didn't go into anything at all. It was only an exercise. She just had me tell her about some part of my body that felt tense, (my jaw) and then had me watch her move two fingers back and forth for about 7-10 seconds. No big deal. We did that three times. She also tried having me close my eyes while she tapped on my legs. We only did that once. Again, no big deal. My jaw did feel a bit more relaxed. We talked a bit and it was done. I drove home, stopping off at the library to turn in a book, got home, sat down, and cried. It came as a complete surprise, and went on for quite some time. Then it ended about as abruptly as it had started. After that I was flat out exhausted. I took a short nap, and now I feel fine.

What the h*** was that about?"

The thing is, I don't cry. I get teary often enough, but I don't ever cry. (Unless I am really drunk, but I don't think that counts.) Tears were one of the things that got me into trouble at the "treatment" center and from then on they would just get stuck behind my eyes.

Very weird experience. I'll take it as a good sign.

It is important to be able to cry. Some of the most depressed people "can't cry".

Glad to hear you are making progress.

NB That treatment program sound fugged up and goes against all modern knowledge about "treatment programs" I've ever read/heard/experienced.

A lot of treatment programs won't let you "pass" until emotions are found and experienced. (e.g. being a "dr. spock" is not a good thing!)

LostTranslation:

Holy Cr@p!! I will keep you in my prayers and thoughts! I am SO SICKENED to hear about the OUTRAGEOUS ABUSE you endured while being sent for "TREATMENT"(???). Sick! Sick! Sick! Shame on those people!!!

Yours is truly an inspirational story . . . still unfolding! My gosh!

{{{Big HUGS}}},
Sue

P.S. QueensU - THANK YOU SO MUCH for continuing to share your Trauma knowledge. It continues to be an invaluable gift to me (and probably many of us here).

Thanks to both of you for your comments.

I never did get to work yesterday. Ended up doing it today, and some light housework. (Although a major overhaul is really needed, I just don't care, and it really doesn't matter. Maybe it will burn down and I won't have to clean it.) I'm heading for a really long, so-hot-you-can-hardly-stand-it bath. Just a little self-care, you know.

The first "real" session of EMDR was yesterday. I found it quite painful, but maybe not in a bad way, just in an emotional way.
Came home and cried again afterwards, but I knew it was there this time. She was kind, and validated my feelings, which was part of why it makes me cry. In my experience, therapy involves a lot of yelling and name calling. Nothing like this.
Anyhow, I guess that's progress. It doesn't feel like it, and I'm really struggling with the alcohol issue... but I'm not going there, at least not today.
Oh, yeah... It was "fugged up" but it was also in uhh, 1983-ish, so not really modern. Just the way they treated us back then.

Just an update.

I have been having nightmares pretty much every night. They don't involve memories of the tx center, but instead involve being out of control in some way, and the out of control-ness being life threatening.

My anxiety level has gone way over the top. I feel like I am barely functioning. Now I cry at the drop of a hat. I feel exposed, and very vulnerable. It has become apparent to those around me. My voice shakes, my hands shake, and I have turned into a klutz. My Pdoc gave me an Rx for Hydroxyzine to help with that.

And, just to make this more fun. I have cycled into the deepest and most horrible depression of my life. I want to die. I see no point in all this, but, even if it's pointless, I'll keep putting one foot in front of the other. I don't know what else to do.