After reading posts on this forum I was under the assumption that Dexedrine caused less side effects and was less "severe" or "intense" than Adderall. I went to my doctor today and asked him if I could try Dexedrine because I am unhappy with the side effects of Adderall. He responded that Dexedrine would be much worse than Adderall and that it is a stronger stimulant. From what I understood, he contradicted much of what I have heard about Dexedrine and Adderall. Does anyone agree with him? I am confused.

Obviously he has not tried them both, at equi-potent doses. :)

Is he an ADHD Psychiatrist?

I've found that most docs have some serious misconceptions about Dexedrine. Ridiculous ones, really. I hate the stigma surrounding dex. :P

Dex is not "worse" than Adderall and seems to generally come with far less side effects for many and more tolerable ones when they do occur.

Dexedrine does not cause as much PNS stimulation as Adderall so it doesn't make me as fidgety or feel like I'm "on something" all the time. It's so much smoother in onset, during, and wearing off. I don't get headaches, mood swings/irritability, or the ceneral "crash" I did with Adderall. Another plus for me... IR dex lasts as long as it should for me (around 4hrs) but IR Adderall would often start losing effectiveness and giving me rebound symptoms after only 2.5 hours! I had to break up my doses and take them fairly frequently to avoid this during the day.

Also, I'm able to exercise and such after taking dex whereas whith Adderall I would get the racing heartbeat from any real physical exertion.

I had to take Adderall with food beacuse it would irritate my stomach otherwise. I'm able to dex with or without food so I can take it when I first get up, before breakfast, but I can also take it with lunch if necessary.

I honestly don't understand why docs have this idea in their head that Dexedrine is this scary dangerous horrible med, but Adderall is fine. Confuses the hell out of me.
IMO, the abuse potential of Dex is *lower* than Adderall. There's no noticable "buzz" or "high" to speak of, even in the beginning (for me), whereas most people do feel that way early on with Adderall and sometimes end up chasing that thinking it means the med is "working."
If one was looking for a prescription amphetamine med to abuse, dex would not be at the top of that list, IMO. But so many docs seem to think that's the case.

Maybe just tell him you realize everyone reacts differently to different meds and you'd like to give dex a shot and see how it does for you. That's what I did. My doc didn't seem thrilled with the idea and suggested Vyvanse instead but I told him I really just wanted to give this a shot first, then I'd consider Vyvanse or whatever if it wasn't successful. I'm SO glad I did and he respected my opinion. But not all docs are like mine at all.

I had a discussion about ADD meds with my therapist a couple weeks ago and he's a ritalin guy. He couldn't stand Adderall himself and knew plenty of people with side effects but was still of the idea that Dexedrine was worse and insanely strong and all this. I related my experiences and research to him and he was quite surprised but seemed to take me seriously and find it interesting. I hope he'll take it into consideration the next time he has a similar conversation.

my experience with dexedrine and adderall is that dexedrine was far less "potent" than adderall.

I was on adderall xr 30 mg daily.

I tried dexedrine starting at 15mg in the AM and 15mg in the PM. I did up the dex to 20 mg in the AM, about the last week I used it. I was on Dexedrine for approximately one month.

Didn't do it for me. I didn't feel the same "kick in the pants" I had with Adderall.

For side effects, I really don't have any to complain of on Adderall, but the only thing I did notice with the dex was that in the evening when it started to wear off, I became VERY tired. It was not really a big deal since it hit around bedtime anyway.

It was also my understanding that dexedrine was smoother than adderall. My doctor didn't tell me anything to the contrary when I asked to try dexedrine.

I believe mg per mg, Dexedrine would be considered "stronger" (i.e. more potent) than Adderall. Your doc my be rationalizing this simply because Dexedrine is pure dextroamphetamine, whereas Adderall is a mixture of four amphetamine salts.

Everyone reacts differently, though. I found Dexedrine to be "smoother" than adderall, though both seem to be equally "effective" for me as far as controlling my ADD/ADHD symptoms, if that makes sense at all.

Dex seems to be able to do something Adderall didn't... clear the negative clutter out of my head so I can actually think. Adderall helped me focus for school and such but Dexedrine helps me focus in everyday situations. I'm not as tormented by the constant unpleasant noise bouncing around in there. I just didn't think about it with Adderall, then it'd all come rushing back when it wore off. Dex actually seems to make it mostly go away and without nevative rebound thinking.

I wasn't able to do much emotional processing on Adderall. That's partially why I usually wanted to minimize my contact with other people when I took it. I feel like with dex, I'm able to process things better and make healthier more logical choices because I'm not as distraught by the self-doubt I trip myself up with constantly.

Adderall motivated me to do stuff right off the bat and I was worried that dex might not help me with that, particularly for school, because it felt so smooth but I've found now that once I get started with my day, I'm ready to get stuff done. I just hafta make the initial step myself whereas I felt more pushed by Adderall.

I've been on Dexedrine for about 6 weeks now and I'm quite pleased. Other people have started noticing the improvement as well. Adderall helped me improve my grades but dex seems to be helping me improve myself.

I realized today that I feel... ok. I'm really ok. And I feel like I'm more able to handle life in general (without trying to take on too much at once as I did on Adderall).

I like being ok. It feels good. :)



It's hard to describe ones experiences with these sort of meds sometimes. I hope this came across clearly enough. It's the best comparison I can come up without comparing side effects or physical feelings.

I didn't find that Adderall did anything better for me than dex. My doctor only gave me a sample of Adderall so maybe I didn't give it a fair chance. But since I didn't have anything amazing to say about it, I just went back to dex. Hey.. if it ain't broke...

my experience with dexedrine and adderall is that dexedrine was far less "potent" than adderall.

I was on adderall xr 30 mg daily.

I tried dexedrine starting at 15mg in the AM and 15mg in the PM. I did up the dex to 20 mg in the AM, about the last week I used it. I was on Dexedrine for approximately one month.

Didn't do it for me. I didn't feel the same "kick in the pants" I had with Adderall.

For side effects, I really don't have any to complain of on Adderall, but the only thing I did notice with the dex was that in the evening when it started to wear off, I became VERY tired. It was not really a big deal since it hit around bedtime anyway.

It was also my understanding that dexedrine was smoother than adderall. My doctor didn't tell me anything to the contrary when I asked to try dexedrine.

This is my experience as well. I went from Adderall XR to Dexedrine, as I felt the Adderall was not as effective as it was when I started, plus the SE weren't great.

On dexedrine and lexapro, I might as well have been eating PEZ candies. I got unbelievably far behind in my school work and really went about 100 steps backwards. Going back, after a big exam unfortunately, to be put back onto adderall and see if I can drop the lexapro.

However, DEX did put me in a happy, talkative mood all the time. It just didn't let me study like I needed to. I'd rather be a productive emotionless drone than a happy street bum

However, DEX did put me in a happy, talkative mood all the time. It just didn't let me study like I needed to. I'd rather be a productive emotionless drone than a happy street bum

yep. I found though, oddly, by keeping my zoloft at 25 mg, no more no less, my moods are pretty even. Depends how focused I am on the task at hand and how often I've been interrupted.

My psychiatrist actually told me there is a stigma in the medical community about dexedrine. He even asked me if the pharmacist gave me a hard time filling it etc.

I was surprised and told him I had no problems filling it.

Last week I saw a new MD when I was refilling my blood pressure med. Just another doc at my normal office. As soon as I mentioned Dexedrine he grilled me for about 30 mins. Why I was taking it how long i was taking it etc. Why I thought I had ADD. After all that I was a little frustrated and was like give me my BP script. He recomended I get off dexedrine or at the very least I needed to increase my SSRI since I spoke frankly with him about my anxiety.

I was very shocked to run into this, but after cooling down it really made me think about why dexedrine has sutch a stigma.

All it takes is one idiot to cause a lot of harm in the world. There is one way to make people crazy. That is push their dopamine levels through the roof. This is why stimulants and other drugs that boost dopamine levels are all class 2-3 drugs. In that tiny fraction of the population dex can push them over the edge and turn them psychotic. All it takes is one idiot.

Be vigilant.

BobC

Compared to dex, adderall is a side-effect filled speed pill to me. I'm glad I found this forum, b/c if I didn't I'd probably be trying some other crap like vyvanse or back on adderall...

Vyvanse is dexedrine in a 12 hour formulation

BobC

Sounds like Dex has alot of Pro's and not alot of Con's. I am going to ask for it, myself.
I think it may helpme focus as Adderall is good, too just doesn't do alot for my concentration, (I have noticed this even in the short time I have been on it) but I have been on a tiny dose and not very long, so my opinion may not count until I have been on it a while.

How long would one of you say the Dex lasts? The 5mg IR? And the 10mg?

It's been my experience that the 5mg & 10mg both last between 3-4 hours on average.

With the generics, I've noticed that the Barr brand last a tad bit longer than the Mallinckrodt by about 20-30 minutes, but the Mallinckrodt does have a faster onset of action for me.

For example, I could usually feel the Mallinckrodt within 10 to 15 minutes after taking it, where as the Barr usually takes about 30 minutes for me to feel it.

Hi JohnW,

I'm taking Dex myself, I started with a 5 mg tablet in the morning and another 5 mg in the afternoon. But I kept forgetting my second dose and so the Dr. just started me on 10mg once a day. So far, it works OK for me. I'm not sure it really is giving me the controll over my ADD that I need yet, but I think that a slightly higher dose might fix that. I have also noticed that when the med first starts to work I get really sleepy but that if I don't just sit there but force myself to get up and do something then the effect quickly goes away once I'm up and active. Since you asked about side effects I have to tell you that is one reason I really like the Dex. I am one that tends to have bad reactions to a lot of meds (migraines, nausea, irregular heartbeat, etc.) but so far all I've gotten from the Dex is a little bit of sleepiness and a mild headache. And the headache isn't usually even bad enough to need meds, it's more like the fatigue headaches you get when you're tired but have to concentrate on something. It doesn't happen everyday and when it does, it usually goes away after an hour or so. The most important non-side effect I've found is that the Dex doesn't make me nauseous, for which I am extremely grateful.

Anyhow, like everyone says throughout these forums, what works for one person with ADD won't necessarily work for another person, but if you're looking for opinions about Dexedrine side effects, there's my $0.02 worth!

Amy

Some general practitioners really have no clue...I don't think they should be able to prescribe any of these drugs without training/education about ADD and the all the different meds used for treatment.

After reading posts on this forum I was under the assumption that Dexedrine caused less side effects and was less "severe" or "intense" than Adderall. I went to my doctor today and asked him if I could try Dexedrine because I am unhappy with the side effects of Adderall. He responded that Dexedrine would be much worse than Adderall and that it is a stronger stimulant. From what I understood, he contradicted much of what I have heard about Dexedrine and Adderall. Does anyone agree with him? I am confused.

Get a second opinion from another psychiatrist if you are not happy with the treatment offered by your current psychiatrist.

Some general practitioners really have no clue...I don't think they should be able to prescribe any of these drugs without training/education about ADD and the all the different meds used for treatment.

Australia is way ahead of you. Here it can only be prescribed by a psychiatrist or a paediatrician, and only that doctor can then prescribe it for you. Many GPs are idiots, I can't believe they're allowed to prescribed Dexedrine (Just "Dexamphetamine" here) in the US, it opens the door up for abuse from those who don't really have ADD/ADHD and just want the kick in the pants. I have anxiety disorders as well, so Dexedrine just made me excessively anxious along with all the usual things it does. We don’t have Adderall here, but from what I understand, Adderall is just four different amphetamine salts, one of them being Dexamphetamine. It really depends on if those other three amphetamine salts are as potent as Dexamphetamine and then consider their half-lives, mechanisms of action, and the dosages. We also have Ritalin here.

Alot of people have less 'severe' physical side-effects from adderall as opposed to dexedrine because the presence of the levoamphetamine molecule tends to cause more PNS stimulation than CNS, which you can attribute to things like muscle tension, jaw clenching, jitteriness etc. When it boils down to it, pure dextroamphetamine can cause similar symptoms too but it affects the CNS in majority with a little PNS stimulation. Everyone's different though, some people think dexedrine is 'worse' for their own reasons...

Doctors can be strange sometimes and I hate to say it but even after finding a psychiatrist who was willing to work with me my meds he still won't let me try a full month of dexedrine (though I have for a few weeks with a previous doctor). His reasoning is "He doesn't feel comfortable with it because it's not a newer medication," whatever.

this is interesting, ive had Dex before 30mg 3x a day, seemed to do the job.

Its hard to get here in the UK as everyone is so against it, I get to see a private psych again, so hopefuly hel prescibe dex, I hope i dont have to end up on aderall just becuase its more acceptable, plus if I have to get it privatly the cost diference is huge. I havnt had aderal, maybe itl be better but could also be worse.

its surprising theres such a diference, as its basicaly a delivery system, but maybe that itself is the issue ? the other diference is dex has one rotation of amphetamine, aderal has 75% dex, 25% pure amphetamine, so 12% of aderal has the oposite rotation molecule, i dont know why they have included this, maybe its just so they can patent it?

its my understanding that 12% cuases just as much side effects (such as sleep ,apettie problems) but much less beneficial effects. maybe 12% has some other benefits for some people though ?

heh, my theory is they included it because it was used for weight loss in the past and the ingredients were already wrapped up in a nice present with a bow on top for them to put through phase trials for ADHD treatment (Orbetral). Don't know but it is what it is, besides I don't mind the minor side-effects of Adderall but some people do so it's a good thing there are other options out there :) The 25% levo doesn't necessarily relate to insomnia, that's a known side effect of any stimulant - nicotine, caffeine, dextro/levo amphetamine, etc.

my sleep improved on dex, and ritalin too, Ive come to beleive that side effect of stimulant is when you already have enough dopamine etc, and end up with too much.

ive only recently found out about this contra rotatory molecule buisiness though.
the two rotations are Dextrorotation and levorotation. wich is where the chmicals get the first few letters of their names.

if so, not to be pedantic but to see if my understanding is right, if aderal has 25% pure amphetamine, that is itself contains 50% dex, 50% lev, wich is a total of 12.5% lev.

ofc side effects arnt necessarily always good or bad, just not the intention for wich the drug is marketed, obviously feeling sick is always bad, but if it affects your heart rate this is a side effect but it depends on what your heart rate was/is now as to wether this is good or bad.

wouldnt it be good if they could monitor whats actually going on with what chemical at the synaps level in specific regions of the brain on an individual basis rather than just guesing from symptoms.

can they even do that on star trek ?

Specifically, Adderall XR is composed of the following proportions of active ingredients<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-adderall_XR_rxinfo_4-0>[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall#cite_note-adderall_XR_rxinfo-4)</SUP>:

1/4 dextroamphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine) saccharate
1/4 dextroamphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine) sulfate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate)
1/4 (racemic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racemic) dextro/levo-amphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine)) aspartate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartate) monohydrate
1/4 (racemic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racemic) dextro/levo-amphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine)) sulfate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate)
- yes I copied that because im lazy lol. Anyway, a racemic mixture means that the amphetamine salt is of 'equal' proportions of both mirror images of the molecule. So if you count the fact that 50% of adderall is a racemic mixture, meaning 25% l-amphetamine, and 25% d-amphetamine, that's where the 25% l-amphetamine comes from. With 25% of that 50% being d-amphetamine and the rest of the drug being soley d-amphetamine, it totals out to roughly 75% D-amphetamine 25% L-amphetamine. The first wave released is 1 racemic salt and 1 d-amphetamine salt, roughly 4-6 hours later a second wave of the remaining racemic salt and d-amphetamine are released (that's for XR, same thing applies for regular Adderall except the salts begin digesting all at once.) Because of the different binding agents (IE: Sulfate, Aspartate Monohydrate, Saccharate) even the instant release version of adderall's salts are spread out over the course of 3-5 hours.

Dexedrine is pure Dextroamphetamine Sulfate, nothing else. The 'sustained' release version of Dexedrine works by releasing half of its dose immediately and the remaining half slowly over time (or so im told, not too much experience with it as we don't see it at our pharmacy much.) The IR just releases the D-amphetamine sulfate all at once.

They can pratically do that though not with 100% accuracy I think, not completely sure; however, doing so on an individual basis would cost buttload of $$. If you ever see this --> Amphetamine Aspartate Monohydrate or Amphetamine Sulfate <-- it's short for saying half l-amp/d-amp.

The side effect of "insomnia" is not that hard to handle. You can take the med earlier in the day + there are so many sleep aids on the market. I'd the say the only unavoidable side effect with stimulants is appetite suppression.

The 'sustained' release version of Dexedrine works by releasing half of its dose immediately and the remaining half slowly over time (or so im told, not too much experience with it as we don't see it at our pharmacy much.)

I didn't even know they had an extended release version yet.

'sustained' release = dexedrine spansule.

- Christine

aha ok thanks, i hadnt looked closely enough at aderall.

I had this thought the other day about adderall's PNS effects

With adderall I noticed a lot of beta-adrenal effects like muscle tension etc. beta stimulation slows the reuptake of NE. More NE translates into increased alpha2 stimulation to reach equilibrium. for me the main alpha2 PNS effect is sweating.

Dexedrine seems to have much lower beta stimulation and a much lower NE equilibrium overall i.e less alpha 2 effects.

BobC

Well, you can go into that kind of depth or you can remember that Levo-amp = Majority PNS and Dex-Amp = Majority CNS :P

I don't ever feel the physical side effects of Adderall anymore myself but then again i've been on it like 6 ******* years.

ive only recently found out about this contra rotatory molecule buisiness though.
the two rotations are Dextrorotation and levorotation. wich is where the chmicals get the first few letters of their names.


can somebody give me a vague idea of what this contra rotary molecule stuff entails? I am having some troubling conceptualizing it -- I am still working on my science understanding.

Perhaps someone has a good link they can share that could break it down for a layman like myself?

yeah its quite simple, think of a spring or a screw thread, theres two ways it can spiral. some molecules have such a twist to them, and can ofc twis in weither direction.

in living things usualy one rotation dominates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrorotatory

l-amphetamine triggers release of Dopamine and Norepinephrine at a 1:1 ratio.

d-amphetamine triggers release of Dopamine and Norepinephrine at a 5:1 ratio.

Sleep is typically easier for most people on Dex than Adderall because less Adrenaline is released and becasue it has a shorter half-life.

Dex also "feels" more relaxing/sedating to many people because less Adrenaline is released.

Adderall contains l-amphetamine because it has a much faster onset than d-ampetamine which takes a couple/few hours before it starts working.

Glaser, et al. (2005). "Differential Effects of Amphetamine Isomers on Dopamine in the Rat Striatum and Nucleus Accumbens Core". Psychopharmacology 178: 250–258 (Pages: 255,256).

Although it seems that where the human brain has a preference for dextroamphetamine over levoamphetamine, it has been reported that certain children have a better clinical response to levoamphetamine.
<SUP></SUP>
Arnold (2000). "Methylphenidate vs Amphetamine: Comparative Review". Journal of Attention Disorders 3 (4): 200–211.

l-amphetamine triggers release of Dopamine and Norepinephrine at a 1:1 ratio.

d-amphetamine triggers release of Dopamine and Norepinephrine at a 5:1 ratio.

Sleep is typically easier for most people on Dex than Adderall because less Adrenaline is released and becasue it has a shorter half-life.

Dex also "feels" more relaxing/sedating to many people because less Adrenaline is released.

Adderall contains l-amphetamine because it has a much faster onset than d-ampetamine which takes a couple/few hours before it starts working.

Glaser, et al. (2005). "Differential Effects of Amphetamine Isomers on Dopamine in the Rat Striatum and Nucleus Accumbens Core". Psychopharmacology 178: 250–258 (Pages: 255,256).

Although it seems that where the human brain has a preference for dextroamphetamine over levoamphetamine, it has been reported that certain children have a better clinical response to levoamphetamine.

Arnold (2000). "Methylphenidate vs Amphetamine: Comparative Review". Journal of Attention Disorders 3 (4): 200–211.



Denver Matt - very interesting on the ratios. Is that knowledge from the Glasser article you cited?

I have been using generic dextroamphetamine for 5 months to great effect. I just wanted to point out that it hits me at a much, much quicker rate than a few hours. 10 minutes on an empty stomach. Maybe 20 min or so if I've eaten.

That quote "Although it seems that where the human brain has a preference for dextroamphetamine over levoamphetamine..." is from the Arnold article? Do you have the whole article? I'd love to read it. I have seen that quote on the Wikipedia entry for Dextroamphetamine (I don't think a reference for it is cited there). It has always driven me crazy. It is poorly worded for one ("...that where..."). And what does it mean exactly? Why would the human brain prefer Dextro over Levo?

Keep the knowledge flowing!

I wouldn't fully trust those ratio's they're posted on wikipedia.org, which is a great source for information but sometimes it can list information that's not necessarily reliable. I'm fairly certain researcher's are still a bit uncertain about the absolute effects on dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin receptors by amphetamines but they are certain of one thing - it does effect those 3 neurotransmitters. As far as I'm aware they're still trying to understand which receptors it effects, ie: D1, D2, D3 ?? which dopamergic receptor(s) are effected etc.

Chirality is a part of Organic Chemistry. To sum it up there are compounds that have the potiential to have a 'mirror' image that's different from their original image. The mirror image of one compound usually but not always acts differently in the body than the other. Another difference between these two mirror imaged compounds is they refract optical light at different angles, if one compound refracts light at a +22.5 degree angle, its enantiomer (mirror image) refract's it at -22.5 degree angle. Generally common ways to refer to different compounds are symbolized by (-) or (+) or the Prefixes Dextro- or Levo-. It's hard to explain and can be complex but if you're really interested in it research chirality, stereocenters, organic chemistry a bit and you'll probably get the general idea of it.

The best example i've seen about different isomers is simple:

Hold your hands out in front of you. They are both hands but the thumbs are on opposite sides.

Both are hands, yet easily distingusable as a left hand and a right hand.

Each isomer of a drug can have dramaticly different effects just from being a different shape. While chemically they are the same.

BobC

In many cases the whole One Stim v Another Stim seems to be very much a personal thing. One person would find Dex to be bang on with no side effects, another may find Adderall fits in that category.

Now whilst I havent taken Adderall ( as its not available in the UK) I have taken Methylphenidate. Lets just say the difference between those two was dramatic enough I thought it might be worth sharing, even considering your looking for adderall comparisons. When you think about it considering the racemic nature of both perhaps the differences might not be all that disimilar.

I'm currently taking 15mg 3 times a day of Dex with little to no side effects and with significant positive benefits. The only side effect of note is appetite supression, which doesnt really make it hard to eat but more that I have to remind myself to eat regularly so to speak.

Now on 10mg of methylphenidate I experienced little positive cognitive benefit and significantly large bundle of side effects to boot. I felt speedy, restless, and on a few ocassions almost as if I was outside of my own body watching myself do things rather than actually doing them!.

Considering what you hear about Dex being more potent (say that 15mg may perhaps be equivalent of 30mg of Methylphenidate), it makes me laugh at the difference in problems I experienced between the two.

Stims are a bit horses for courses, and providing your doctor/psych is open minded enough to listen to what you have to say you should be alright. I found a lot of information on these forums in particular helpful in explaining to my doctor why I felt Dex might be better for me. I found it particularly helpful to explain about racemic/non-racemic nature of each and also how that works on the PNS/CNS side of things. It certainly helped making it easier when I asked to increase the dosage.