Hey gang,

I just wanted to report that today I finally got a prescription for the Barr 5mg IR dex tablets filled at my local pharmacy.

I have taken the Barr 10mg IR dex tablets off and on for years, mostly on. In fact, I have taken more of the Barr 10mg tablets than any other drug since 1992.

Well, my suspicions were confirmed today, when I discovered that these Barr 5mg tablets are so much better than the Barr 10mg tablets. What I mean by that is that two of the Barr 5mg tablets are more effective for me than one of the 10mg Barr tablets.

Some of you might remember me and some other members here reporting that we had found the 5mg IR Mallinckrodt dex tablets to be more effective for us than the 10mg IR Mallinckrodt dex tablets.

Now that I have tried the Barr 5mg, I felt compelled to share that I now feel that the Barr 5mg tablets are actually much better than the Mallinckrodt 5mg tablets were for me. Oddly, the price is the same for both the Barr & the Mallinckrodt IR dex teblets when buying them in the 5mg strength.

In fact, the 5mg Barr tablets cost more than the Barr 10mg tablets. For example, my usual prescription was for 200 of the 10mg IR dex tablets, and I would pay $64 and change to get that filled every month. Well, today I payed $90 and change for 400 of the 5mg IR dex tablets.

The one thing I noticed was that they are the exact same size as the Barr 10mg tablets. In contrast, the Mallinckrodt 5mg tablets were about half the size of their 10mg tablets.

I highly recommend that anyone who has not tried the Barr 5mg IR dex tablets to consider trying them if they can. I only wish I had tried these so many years ago. I am so glad that I finally remembered to ask my Dr to change the script when he wrote it out to the 5mg and not the 10mg which he normally does.

I can now happily say that I find that these 5mg tablets from Barr are by far the single most effective version of dextroamphetamine that I have tried to date. I would even prefer these 5mg generics over the 5mg Dexedrine tablets any day. The only version of dex that I have yet to try is the Ethex generic, but considering that I have never heard anyone mention anything good, or bad about them, I find myself really not interested in going through the hassle of finding a pharmacy that will order them.

Anyhoot, sorry to ramble on and on, but I am very happy about this, and of course this also happens to be one of my favorite subjects. ;)

Hey Lars,
Just curious....what were the differences that you noticed?

congrats on the discovery and thanks for the field report! If I found the 10mg Barr tablets to be ineffective for clarity of thought, would the 5mg hold more promise or should I really go for a non-dexamphetamine medication altogether?

Hey Lars,
Just curious....what were the differences that you noticed?

Well, initially I noticed that they are colored yellow compared to the orange color that I had been accustomed to with the Barr 10mg tablets.

The next thing I noticed was about 30 minutes after taking them, and it was really a stark difference than what I have grown accustomed to with the Barr 10mg tablets.

They are much more stimulating, however not in a harsh way at all. In fact I feel like they are not only more potent (when dosed equally), but that they are also much smoother in action.

I would highly recommend these to anyone who has never tried them. I especially recommend them to anyone who is familiar with any other brand of dextroamphetamine IR tablets.

I have no way of knowing if other people would prefer them as much as I do, because there is no way to no such things. However, having taking dextroamphetamine for years now like I have, I have never been as impressed with any other single version of dex before taking these.

In the past I felt that the 5mg IR Mallinckrodt generic dex tablets were as good as the brand name Dexedrine. However now I feel like the Barr 5mg tablet is even better than both of those two.

I sure do look forward to hearing what others have to say on this subject about their experiences with the Barr 5mg IR tablets compared to other versions of IR dex tablets.

congrats on the discovery and thanks for the field report! My pleasure! I could not be happier at the moment, because I feel like I have suddenly found something that is going to give me such an advantage this semester. I am so glad that I did not forget to ask my Dr to switch my script back to the 5mg tablets. I have been intending to try these Barr 5mg tablets for about a year now, but I always would forget to mention it when I saw my Dr. Well, I will certainly never forget again after today.:)




If I found the 10mg Barr tablets to be ineffective for clarity of thought, would the 5mg hold more promise or should I really go for a non-dexamphetamine medication altogether?
I understand what you mean. I had come to develop a similar opinion of the Barr 10mg tablets over the last couple of months. It was not that I felt that they were "ineffective" for my clarity of thought, but it was just that they did not seem to be as effective as they once were. I could have ordered the Mallinckrodt tablets if I wanted to change from the Barr, but I had reached the conclusion that the Mallinckrodt dex (albeit a good product) was not as effective for me as the Barr 10mg.

As far as your question about what you should go for, It's important that I first say that I think that should be something that is best for you and your Dr to decide upon (obviously). OK, now that I have said that, I can say that for me the Barr 5mg tablets have allowed me to experience a clarity of thought today that I have not felt in many, many months. Perhaps even a year or more.

I hope that whatever you and your Dr try next will help you as much as the Barr 5mg IR tablets have helped me.

I agree lars I like the Barr 5mg tabs myself :D

I switched from adderall to dexedrine about six months ago and was very pleased with the results too. Like you, I get the 5mg barr tabs and so far it's been smooth sailing.

Loves it. :cool:

I'll keep this in mind when I go to my psych on the 27th or 28th, lol I can't remember, how very ADHD of me...

OK, great! This is exactly what I came on here to find out about. Have they "raised the Barr?" I remember reading a few months back that Barr labs had bought the manufacturing rights to the brand-name Adderall.

So I'm wondering, did they start making the generic with the real Adderall formula?

Because after going from Barr to being on Eon for about three months, the pharmacy gave me Barrs again.

And they are not the same they were before. The effect is more smooth and even, and I just noticed a while ago that I'm not getting the Adderall rage effect.

And it isn't about the size, because it is the same dosage as it was before.

So I'm wondering - those of you who have said that two 5mgs work better than one 10 mg - could it just be that they have just changed whole formula?

Sorry if this has already been covered elsewhere here.

How can I tell the difference? And where can I get them?

So far I love dexedrine (knock on wood).

How can I tell the difference?
Well, that's kinda like me asking, "how can I tell what my favorite color is?"

It simply boils down to personal preferance, and you will either notice a difference, or not. ;)




And where can I get them? Most pharmacies prefer ordering Barr brand generic dex, however if your pharmacy is one of the ones ordering something else, just ask your pharmacist if he/she can order the Barr for your next prescription.

I'm sorry, I meant how can I tell the physical difference in their appearance?



Oh wow, as I'm typing this I checked my bottle. Although they appear orange, it does say "barrlabs/barr labor" so I have the ones you like right? :D

I'm sorry, I meant how can I tell the physical difference in their appearance? These are the 5mg tablets:
http://gsm.about.com/pictures/photo_us/030/dext005g.jpg


These are the 10mg tablets:
http://gsm.about.com/pictures/photo_us/036/dext010a.jpg






Oh wow, as I'm typing this I checked my bottle. Although they appear orange, it does say "barrlabs/barr labor" so I have the ones you like right? :DI prefer the 5mg over the 10mg, but yes it sounds like you have the brand I like.

I have the 5mg, and as they saying goes "if it aint broke, dont fix it"

Now I'm off to shower and bed (I'm excited because if I was on any of the other pills I couldn't do this!)

Lars - Not to beat a dead horse here and maybe you specified already, but what, if any, are differences in the side effects between 5 mg Barr and 5 mg Mallinckrodt? Thanks

Wow i'm tempted to not take the extra time to goto costco and just fill it at walgreens now :)

BobC

Lars - Not to beat a dead horse here and maybe you specified already, but what, if any, are differences in the side effects between 5 mg Barr and 5 mg Mallinckrodt? Thanks

I found the 5mg Mallinckrodt to be quite relaxing, although it was not something I would take to help me sleep per se, and I also never felt that the Mallinckrodt lasted as long as the Barr. Maybe about 35 or 45 minutes less than the Barr would last for me.

In contrast, the 5mg Barr is quite stimulating, but with a stimulation that is so much smoother and appears to be longer lasting than what I have experienced with the 10mg Barr. Keep in mind that my comparison between these two was for two of the 5mg vs one of the 10mg, and not for one of the 5mg vs one of the 10mg as it could easily be read that way. ;)

Hey Lars! I had the opportunity to fill my script with 10mg BARR tabs for this first time this month. (I only had experience with the 10mg Mallinkrodt tabs prior to this month.)

After a fair trial of the 10mg BARR tabs, I will say that I do believe they are more stimulating to me. At the same time, however, they do produce *slightly* more noticeable side-effects... mainly just dry mouth and appetite suppression. The side effects don't really bother me; they are just more noticeable when on the BARR tablets.

Now after reading your testimony on the 5mg BARR tabs, I am of course wanting to try those now! haha :)

How exactly should I go about bringing this up to my doc? I don't know why I feel so weird about it. I've always been a bit *shy* abut asking my doctor to switch around my stuff.... but I guess I'm thinking it would seem weird to my doc that I want the same dosage, but that I actually want to take *more* pills. hmmmmm......:rolleyes: :eyebrow:

How exactly should I go about bringing this up to my doc?

I understand what you mean about not feeling comfortable asking for things like this, so I will explain what I said to my Dr in an effort to help you see how another person handled a similar situation. I am not telling you to say exactly what I said, but you are certainlly free to quote me as much as you like.

I told my Dr that I wanted to try the 5mg generic version due to the fact that the brand name Dexedrine IR only came in a 5mg tablet. I went on to tell him how I had noticed that the label that the pharmacy would print out and put on my bottle of 10mg pills often said "Generic for DextroStat," and that I remembered when I first started taking this drug (which was 5mg tablets initially) that the label on the bottle always said "Generic for Dexedrine."

I reminded him of how the FDA approves a generic drug, and how they require that the bioavailability of the generic being approved has to be within 20% (plus or minus) of the bioavailability of the innovator drug (Dexedrine in this case). I told him that since I the FDA does not allow the public to see the actual bioavailability data for generic drugs, that the only way I could know for sure was to try them and confirm it myself. He agreed, and ever since has always allowed me to choose what stregnth tablet I want.

I hope this helps to give you some ideas of how you might discuss this issue with your Dr.

PS Even though I started with a 5mg tablet of Dexedrine initially, I never had anything to compare it to, so I never really noticed how unique it was until years later when I decided to try this experiment to see.

Please keep us posted if you are able to try out the Barr 5mg.

Cheers for sharing Lars.


I suggested to my psychiatrist yesterday about trying dexamphetamine and he wrote me a script for 100x 5mg. I assume my pills are the generic type because they just have D/5 on the back. I'm lucky to live in a country where we have the PBS (pharmaceutical benefits scheme) where it only costs me $5 for a script, apparently it's regular price is $11.50 so I'm guessing the name brand would cost a fair bit more.

It's working really well so far. Ritalin felt dirty and made me jittery and dopey. So far the dex feels clean and smooth, I've also got much clearer thoughts and don't feel any negative side effects. We agreed to start me on 5mg twice a day and increase if needed. So far so good :) I can hardly even notice I've taken anything apart from the light bulb going on inside my head.

I was thinking I could go with the theory that a prescription for more than 100 pills is usually cheaper (per pill).... I believe I read that on this site somewhere a long time ago. hmmmm....

I also thought that I could also ask for an additional 5mg added to my script (?)... that way my doc would have to give me an additional script for the 5mg tabs or just switch me over to strictly 5mg tabs all the way.

At any rate, I do believe that I like the 10mg BARR tabs better than the 10mg Mallinckrodt tabs. I'm having similar feelings as Lars on this matter. I feel the Mallinkrodt tabs were very smooth and maybe even too smooth. Whereas the BARR tabs are more stimulating. I feel they both are lasting about the same amount though. Around 3-4 hours, depending on a number of factors (food, sleep, etc).

I remember when I first switched over to Dex IR from Adderall IR, I was all gung-ho about getting the Mallinckrodt Dex and staying away from BARR because of all the stories I had heard on this site and also because I didn't care for the BARR spansules. Now it turns out that I actually have a slight preference for the BARR tabs! haha!

I guess it just goes to show ya: Don't knock it 'till ya try it! :)

The only Barr Dexedrine product I can't tolerate is the generic Spansule.

The only Barr Dexedrine product I can't tolerate is the generic Spansule.
Yeah, I was given the 15mg BARR Spansules at one point. Lots of side effects with those, which is why I was so hesitant to try the BARR tablets.

I was thinking I could go with the theory that a prescription for more than 100 pills is usually cheaper (per pill).... I believe I read that on this site somewhere a long time ago. hmmmm....
Yes, I have posted about this in the past.

My Dr first told me about this several years ago when I was complaining to him about how expensive it was to get my prescription filled. After hearing me complain he suggested writing the prescription in chunks of 100 tablets due to how pharmacies tend to charge less that way.

I guess it just goes to show ya: Don't knock it 'till ya try it! :)

Very well said!

I feel very strongly (based on my own experience) that it's best to try as many different versions of the medications we are prescribed just to make sure we are getting the most out of our prescribed therapy. Some folks report not being able to detect any differences, and I suspect that some may notice a difference between them all.

Sometimes the differences between some medications was so subtle that it really did not matter that much to me what brand the pharmacy carried, but then there were other times (like with dextroamphetamine tablets) where the difference was noticeable enough to cause me to insist upon getting the brand I felt worked best for me.

I feel very strongly (based on my own experience) that it's best to try as many different versions of the medications we are prescribed just to make sure we are getting the most out of our prescribed therapy.

I agree with you. Actually, your testimony was one of the main reasons that I wanted to try the BARR tabs and I'm so glad that I did! :)

Lars, what do you mean mopre stimulating, like more speedy? Is it alot smoother than say, Adderall 5 or 10mg? it is isn't tol stimluating for a new person would you say to try? I really need the claritity of mind you said it for you! I am going to ask my Dr. for the 5mg of Barr Dex ( or is the Mallinckrodt ok, too) tommorrow that way I can have coverage for afternoons an evening's if needed. And it is a lower dose than the 10mg Adderall he put me on. Do you think after two days,( if i call Monday) he will do it so soon, if I say i need more coverage and less mg? If it isn't too stimulating or speedy it should help me, also. I hope I like these better. I really am not sure as to whether to give Adderall more time I am on the Barr brand, 10mg and not up to the 10 yet, but not sure what to do. If the Dex is smoother, i am all for it!
Wish me luck tommorrow!!

Lars, what do you mean mopre stimulating, like more speedy?Well, not exactly. For example, if I was to drink a few triple esspressos I would feel very stimulated in a way that I would call "speedy," but I would not feel all that capable of sitting through a long lecture intently, nor would I be all that capable of studying for hours on end due to the fact that my mind tends to wander when I feel "speedy." The stimulation that I was talking about was the kind of stimulation that provides me the ability to do both of those things in a calm, and focused manner.





Is it alot smoother than say, Adderall 5 or 10mg? Well, we each can and do respond differently to these things. A perfect example of this would be how Adderall effected me. It was the only stimulant medication to cause me to feel sedation. Most people do not find Adderall sedting. It depends on the person. The same is true for Dexedrine, and until a person takes it for themself they will never know for sure.



it is isn't tol stimluating for a new person would you say to try?It would be wrong for me to try to answer that for a few reasons. A) It's against the rules of the forum to offer medical advice, B) I'm not a Dr., and C) Everyone responds so diferently to these things that it's impossible for anyone to predict how another person will actually tolerate another drug.






Do you think after two days,( if i call Monday) he will do it so soon, if I say i need more coverage and less mg? I really have no way of knowing what your Dr will or will not do for you.







Wish me luck tommorrow!! I hope it goes well, and I hope you will keep us posted on how everything unfolds. ;)

It's working really well so far. Ritalin felt dirty and made me jittery and dopey. So far the dex feels clean and smooth, I've also got much clearer thoughts and don't feel any negative side effects. We agreed to start me on 5mg twice a day and increase if needed. So far so good :) I can hardly even notice I've taken anything apart from the light bulb going on inside my head.
That's wonderful to hear man. I'm very happy that you have found something that works better for you. ;)

I'm very envious of your countries PBS. We have a PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) in my country, but it's only benefit would be TV shows like Sesame Street, Mister Rodgers, Nova, This Old House, etc. :)

Thanks Lars. Sorry for asking those questions! Of course you can't answer them! I am still unsure. I see though what you mean by the difference between "speedy" and when you arecalm, and can focus on several things at once! I would like to focus one thing I am doing for starters! Instead of my mind racing and thinking about so many things! maybe that is what you mean, it help's with.

Well, I asked my Dr if I could switch to Dex, for stated reason's here, smoother, less side effects, etc. But the nurse said my Dr. doesn''t prescribe dex becasue it was a weight loss med and didn't prescribe it to his patients. So, the best i got prescribed was AdderallXR, 5mg, TID. The pharmacist said it had less side efects then the regular, ( have to try it to believe it!) it started more gradual and kept you on a even keel for 6 hours. But after the panic attack i had today I am wondering if i should try any more stims and try another med for ADHD.I really wanted to try the Adderall XR 5mg to see the difference from the 5mg IR.Maybe after a few days I can try it again, after these effects wear off.

The only Barr Dexedrine product I can't tolerate is the generic Spansule.


I take barr spansule and they seem to work well for me...but they are the only brand I have tried is there a better generic..

Well, I asked my Dr if I could switch to Dex, for stated reason's here, smoother, less side effects, etc. But the nurse said my Dr. doesn''t prescribe dex becasue it was a weight loss med and didn't prescribe it to his patients. So, the best i got prescribed was AdderallXR, 5mg, TID.

Ya know, I've seen several people on these forums say similar things about their doctor being more than willing to prescribe Adderall, but hesitant to prescribe Dex.

My doctor is kinda the opposite, or at least it appears that way to me. For example, once when looking over my chart to double check my meds, he said (out loud, but to himself kinda), "Oh, that's right... You're on plain ol' Dextroamphetamine."

Maybe that meant nothing at all, haha, but still.... I don't get why some doctors who prescribe Adderall would have such a problem with prescribing Dex. Afterall, as we all know, Dextroamphetamine is a component of Adderall. Hmmmmmmm :rolleyes:

I don't get why some doctors who prescribe Adderall would have such a problem with prescribing Dex. Afterall, as we all know, Dextroamphetamine is a component of Adderall. Hmmmmmmm :rolleyes:
Well, I don't want to sound like a broken record, and I may be way off base in this assumption, so I apologize in advance if what I'm about to say offends anyone. Please know that this is just one man's opinion, and there are no peer reviewed published journal articles to support my assumption. It's just my gut feeling folks.

That being said, I suspect that the reason more Dr's are in favor of prescribing Adderall is likely due to the fact that compared to Dexedrine, Adderall is a very new drug. It was approved in 1994 I think, and it took several years before there was a generic available. For those who are not familiar with the way the pharmaceutical industry operates, Dr's are often given incentives (aka pharmaceutical company kickbacks) to prescribe new drug therapies over old drug therapies.

Sometimes these kickbacks come in the form of a free vacation to the Bahamas, or Jamaica, etc., and sometimes these incentives come in the form of gifts or prizes for Dr's who are able to get "X" number of patients prescribed each month to drug "X".

Some drugs offer greater kickbacks than others, and some drugs (most in fact) do not even offer kickbacks. However, in the area of psychiatric medications, this is a big part of the pharmaceutical marketing machine, and I suspect that your Dr would prefer that you know as little about this issue as possible.

Why more kickbacks for psychiatric drugs over non psychiatric drugs? Well, when a person is prescribed an antibiotic for instance, they will not be taking that antibiotic for the rest of their life. They may be on it for a couple of weeks tops, and if the pharmaceutical company is lucky a person may take a dose of antibiotics once a year or so. In contrast, psychiatric drugs like antidepressants, and ADHD type drugs are prescribed for very long periods of time. It is rare that people ever take these medications for less than months at a time, and for some of us it equates to decades of time.

Oddly, it's been my experience that the drugs that are least prescribed (ie Desoxyn, and Dexedrine) are the most therapeutically safe medications that I ever took for this condition, and I can't help but suspect the medical profession in this country for making a decision not to prescribe those two time tested drugs (they've both been around longer than any other ADD medications;)) mostly based on financial motives.

Fortunately there are Dr's out there (like mine) who have allowed me to not loss faith in this profession that I love, and hope to join one day. I used to feel very angry about how many decision are made that are based more on the financial aspects of the decision, and not so much the human aspects of the decision, but I no longer feel angry about that anymore.

These days I know that I am doing all I can do to change what I can, and I learned long ago that when you dislike something so much that it makes you angry, that the only way that you can hope to change anything is to join that which you hate/dislike and change it from within.

Anyhoot, sorry to ramble on here, but that's my two cents as to why Dr's likely have issues with prescribing Dex over Adderall.

I fully agree man...

If it weren't for this forum, I'd either be on some jittery, side-effect filled med like addy or possibly vyvanse, or just given up period (was THIS close).

Luckily, after a few meds failed miserably, I suggested dex to my doc, and she said it's a great prescription, just need to remember to take it. Fine by me. :)

Lars you bring up an excellent point! I'm very glad that my doctor isn't like that. He knows I don't have insurance and when I first told him of this, he immediately started prescribing the Dex. He hasn't brought up the subject of Addy XR since.

However, what about a doc that is hesitant to prescribe dex when the patient is currently on a generic equiv. of Adderall IR? I've heard of people here on the forums talk about this. It still baffles me. Maybe because (mg per mg), dex is more of a "potent" amphetamine than Addy? :confused:

Hey Lars! I have another question for you. :D

So, we know you prefer Barr over Mallinckrodt... and we also know you prefer the 5mg tabs over the 10mg tabs.
BUT, which would you prefer out of these two choices: 10mg BARR Dex or 5mg Mallinckrodt Dex? Better yet... Would you mind to rank all of the Dex brands/generics you've tried? LOL. I'm only asking because I felt the same as you did about the 10mg Barr vs. 10mg Mallincrodt, and I'm going to be going to the doc again in a couple of weeks to get back on Dex. YAY! :)

Hey Lars! I have another question for you. :D

So, we know you prefer Barr over Mallinckrodt... and we also know you prefer the 5mg tabs over the 10mg tabs.
BUT, which would you prefer out of these two choices: 10mg BARR Dex or 5mg Mallinckrodt Dex?
I would take a Barr 10mg over a Mallinckrodt 5mg tablet any day of the week. However, I would opt to take two of the 5mg Mallinckrodt instead of one of the 10mg Barr IR tablets.









Better yet... Would you mind to rank all of the Dex brands/generics you've tried?

Sure, but I have not tried them all.

I prefer (in this order) Barr 5mg IR tablets, then Mallinckrodt 5mb IR tablets followed by the Dexedrine 5mg IR tablet.

However, I would opt to take two of the 5mg Mallinckrodt instead of one of the 10mg Barr IR tablets.
Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. Thank you, Lars! :D











Sure, but I have not tried them all.

I prefer (in this order) Barr 5mg IR tablets, then Mallinckrodt 5mb IR tablets followed by the Dexedrine 5mg IR tablet.
Wow, so brand dex is actually last on the list? Interesting.

So after these, next would be barr 10mg tabs, then mallinckrodt 10mg tabs last?

Sorry for all the questions. I really just want to try to them all eventually to see which ones work best for me. I already know that I like 10mg BARR tabs better than the 10mg Mallinckrodt tabs. Interestingly enough, I also prefer a 10mg BARR Dex tab to a 15mg BARR Adderall tab. It's weird, I know! :rolleyes:

It's probably to do with surface area.

In 5 mg tablets, more surface area is exposed to solvents/acids in digestive system than in the larger 10mg tablets.

That is: 5mg is broken down faster.

I imagine you'd experience similarly increased effects if you were to crush the tablets and swallow that (not snort, since this increases absorption by 150%, while I'm thinking we're only interested in speed at which the amphetamine is released).

Swallowing a powder will also increase absorption I imagine, since the gums, throat, etc have mucous membranes and large concentrations of blood vessels which absorb more than if it was in a solid, undissolved form (as in the tablet as it goes down). Still, it should be less than nasal absorption.

A question: do two 5mg tablets last as long as one 10 mg tablet?

For the record: I am currently (and always have been) prescribed 5mg 'Dexamphetamine SO4' that look like this: (D|5) - it can be broken in half. It seems to be the generic brand here in Australia because it has been around for about 8 years at least, and is what two separate psychs have prescribed me. Any ideas what the brand actually is?

LARS!!! :D (or anyone else really... I'm not just favoring Lars here;))

Any personal experience or any info on Dextrostat (Shire's dex)???

Hey gang, :)

I'm gettin' ready to fill my new 'script in about a week (still doing 1/2-week trials until I find "the one"), and was just wondering what the final consensus is by those of you that have personally investigated the 2x5MG vs 1x10MG Barr Labs theory.

Honestly, I really think that what people are saying about the 5MG tabs being the generics for Dexedrine and the 10MG tabs being generics for DextroStat sounds really really plausible. I am very interested in trying this out, but I'd like to know what everyone's final thoughts are regarding this before I ask my psychiatrist to change my meds from 10 -> 5 ...

What I have gathered from reading through the Dexedrine/Dextrostat posts by experienced individuals is that, for Dex-related meds, the chain of quality, satisfaction, and effectiveness for 5MG tabs would go as follows:
Dexedrine, Barr, Mallinkrodt, Dextrostat ... ?

(FYI: I prefer a calm, euphoric, and long-lasting effect to the "speedy" effect like that of Adderall IR)

Would you agree? :confused:

Thanks so much.
~laz

IR tablets and their generics are a pain. Never have taken the IR Dexedrine, just the spansuls. I remember the difference between 10mg Adderall from Ranbaxy and 10mg Adderall from Barr though. The barr tablet felt like I just took a shot of Cocaine to the juggular (not really) and about 1 1/2 hours after ingestion it was gone. I heart the ranbaxy one's though <3.

Ya, I wish that there was more of a standardization, as opposed to "how it looks on paper." It's pretty ridiculous.

I feel the same way right now about different generic products. What sucks is that there's always a few random instances when a med hits me *exactly* how I want it to, but those times are so inconsistent that I usually don't know what to expect ...

I have Barr 10MG tabs right now, and they are doing the trick ... I suppose. I mean, they are performing as I would expect, without having another alternative besides Adderall 20MG IR by Corepharma to compare them to ... (which I like 35MG Barr Dex more than 40MG Corepharma Addy).

Honestly, maybe my problem is that I just need a higher dose ha ha ha. I mean, freakin' A ... I might be trying to get blood out of a turnip lol. :D

I remember the difference between 10mg Adderall from Ranbaxy and 10mg Adderall from Barr though. The barr tablet felt like I just took a shot of Cocaine to the juggular (not really) and about 1 1/2 hours after ingestion it was gone. I heart the ranbaxy one's though <3.
Tylerlee:
I feel exactly the same way. You and I must have similar body chemistries or something. ;)

Ok I got a theory here ... And I'm kind of excited about it.

I think that the difference in activity within our bodies has everything to do with a tablet's content of magnesium, and to a lesser extent, calcium.

I did read a few threads on this forum that touched briefly on this subject, but they really didn't hit the actual point of WHY magnesium is better, and the proper form to take. In fact, many of the magnesium-related posts were actually completely wrong and misleading (however, the point they made, being that magnesium supplements are very very beneficial to anyone taking amphetamines, is still valid).

Since Barr's 5MG tablets are the same size as their 10MG tablets, that would mean: they are pressing the pills in the same die, but filling the 5MG tablets with more inactive filler. Since calcium sulfate is the most abundant inactive ingredient in Barr's dex, it would be the most similarly acting generic to brand Dexedrine, which also lists calcium sulfate as its top inactive ingredient.

Now, DextroStat doesn't use calcium sulfate, but it *does* use magnesium stearate, which, in my opinion, is more beneficial to our bodies throughout the course of the day, but only *after* the amphetamine becomes absorbed in our system. On that note, I will add that I think the calcium sulfate is more beneficial during the absorption process by buffering the dextroamphetamine sulfate from stomach acids, allowing it to be more thoroughly absorbed. Of course, I really have no idea what I'm talking about in terms of "actual facts" ... BUT ...

I went to the store last night and bought a bottle of calcium/magnesium, as amino acid chelates. Being bound to amino acids, this increases the bioavailability of both calcium and magnesium from like 30% to 80% or more (when compared to magnesium oxide, magnesium stearate, etc). Now, I have read all over the place that amphetamine depletes our body's magnesium supply, which disrupts many cellular functions. Plus, it is also a fact that 68% of Americans are deficient in magnesium (http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=10709).

Just so you are aware, if you are searching for articles about amphetamine-related magnesium depletion (sorry, I lost the ones I found or I would post them), watch out for the websites that have it completely the other way around, saying that amphetamine depletes calcium in our body. I found a few of these sites, but they are definitely inaccurate. It is *magnesium* that amphetamine depletes ... which throws off our body's calcium-magnesium balance (which in turn disrupts certain neurological cell functions). Plus, if you know anything about Scientology, they are *HUGE* on the "Cal-Mag" thing, which is calcium-magnesium ... It is literally a staple to their lifestyle ... and for obvious reasons (magnesium is *so* crucial to brain function).

Ok anyways, back to the point, I took 390mg calcium (39% daily recommended value) and 234mg magnesium (59% DV) last night, and then again this morning after I took my dex. I'm going to keep this 12-hour cycle going for a few days to see what happens in the long term. BUT -- For right now, today, I see a 100% difference in the effectiveness of my meds. Like it is now completely obvious to me what low magnesium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency_%28medicine%29) feels like ... ha ha. Check that Wikipedia article.

Umm ... Ya. So like, without straight up recommending this to anybody, I feel it was completely, 100%, without a doubt: beneficial for me in every way possible to have taken a magnesium chelated supplement (either magnesium glycinate or magnesium taurate), WITH OR WITHOUT being on medication. (FYI: I take an extremely bioavailable multivitamin, half in the morning, and half twelve hours later ... But oddly enough, it only includes 12% magnesium and 6% calcium ... and it is one of the *best* multivitamins I have found)

But being on an amphetamine, however, it felt like before I took the magnesium/calcium chelated supplement, my body was like a car engine that had been driven for 15,000 miles since its last oil change ... and while it is still running, it definitely wasn't efficient and definitely made the effectiveness of the dex feel a little short-winded (not to mention, making me feel a little weird and not in "full" control of myself). BUT NOW ... it feels like I just got an oil change, all my fluids refilled, and my engine is lubed up and ready to go again. And the difference is absolutely amazing. :D

Yup. So in my opinion, addition of mainly magnesium, but also calcium adds beneficial properties to our dex generics, making them more bioavailable and also gives our bodies the proper minerals it needs to continue functioning normal while on the drug. I noticed that the Mallinkrodt generics have *neither* calcium nor magnesium, and that could definitely be the reason why some people have said the Mallinkrodt tabs are "smoother" or whatever, and that the Barr ones (which are the only tabs with both magnesium *and* calcium) are much more stimulating--because they *are*! According to my theory, Barr would be the most effective ... more so than Dexedrine, even (since they both have 5/10milligrams of dextroamphetamine sulfate, in addition to the binding agents/fillers). And also, two 5MG Barr tabs would be more effective than one 10MG tab.

Plus, in addition to the obvious, I would have to say that given a completely healthy body, continually filled with proper nutrients, most of us could probably cut our dose in half and have twice the effectiveness :P

So yea, that's my theory. Any thoughts?

Sounds very good. I take a magnesium/calcium/Vit D suppliment AFTER I take my dexedrine and it has been absorbed and it seems to increase the half life substantially. I'm on the Dexedrine 5mgs by the way.

So yea, that's my theory. Any thoughts?
Wow, that is very interesting paravis. Thanks for sharing.

So you're actually taking the magnesium supplement at the same time as your meds? That is probably making all the difference for you. We always hear about taking or avoiding certain things immediately before or after taking our meds. Somehow the supplement in the *short term* is making a difference... Though in the long term, who knows?

Also, the majority of the body's magnesium is STORED in the bones and tissues. Only something like 1% actually hangs around in the blood. So when you take the supplement, your magnesium levels in your blood increase dramatically until your body can absorb it and get everything "balanced" again.

I'm not a doc or pharmacist, obviously. Just doing some "out loud" thinking here. :D Again- very interesting read. Glad you shared it with us!

Thanks for your input- nicely done.

So yea, that's my theory. Any thoughts?

I think it's an awesome theory, and I thank you for sharing it with us.

I never knew that Barr was the only one that contained both Mg & Ca. That is very interesting.

I always found the Barr (5mg IR) to be better than any of the other dextroamphetamine products available (including the brand name Dexedrine 5mg IR). However, since nobody else here ever seemed to report that they too preferred the Barr 5mg IR over all the other versions of dex out there (including the brand Dexedrine), I guess I kind of started to second guess if what I was experiencing was maybe a placebo effect, or perhaps just a unique response to the Barr due to me having a different physiology, or something along those lines.

After reading your theory I have to say that I agree with your theory, and your theory helps me feel a step closer to possibly being able to rule out the placebo effect as it relates to my preference for the different versions of dextroamphetamine.

I am now very interested in trying out some Mg supplements, because I certainly feel like "a car that has gone over 15,000 miles since its last oil change." In fact, I had a really bad day today (Monday) due to the fact that even with my medication I feel lately like I am that "car needing an oil change" for the first time since I started taking stimulant medication over 16 years ago.

I spent the whole afternoon today (about 5 hours) in an organic chemistry lab isolating and purifying a chemical product (over and over) only to accidently throw the product out while cleaning up my equipment just before the end of the lab. I was so humiliated, ashamed, and embarased. Fortunately I was able to salvage enough residual product from my dirty glassware that I was able to conduct an infrared spectrum analysis which allowed me to ID my product, but the fact that I can still be so distracted /absent minded while still on my medication humbled me to my core today.

I have an appointment with my psychiatrist tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon, and since getting out of lab today I have been debating on whether or not I should try another approach for treating my condition. I am definitely going to be supplementing with Mg startng tomorrow, and I am very excited about the possibility of how that might help me.

Considering how long I have been taking amphetamine, and also how little Mg I am likely absorbing from the cheap vitamin supplement I currently take, I think that I could very likely be suffering from a Mg deficiency. I will keep you posted on how it turns out, and also if my Dr and I decide to try another approach.

Thanks again for sharing such a wonderful post.

PS Can you send me a PM letting me know what vitamin you are taking? I have always had trouble finding vitamins that actually delivered when it came to being bioavailable.

I bought a totally natural magnesium suppliment of the highest solubility and absorbility...namely a liquid magnesium suppliment from Germany using magnesium gluconate (not glutamate! which is dangerous!) and citrate. There are no preservatives in this organic mix, so you have to refridgerate the bottle after opening and have to use it within 4 weeks. Each 10ml contains 125ml of pure magnesium...no calcium. It works excellent, I feel much better all around... it helps with everything cardiovascular. I have better circulation, more stamina, never have my heart beating fast even when doing hard labour. It also keeps you regular and prevents constipation.

I take it (20ml - 250mg) on an empty stomach (as you are directed to do) at night after my meds have worn off (it's in a fruit juice base, so if I took it with my meds it would probably just make them work much less efficiently), this helps with sleep because it is extremely calming, within a couple hours I'm ready to hit the hay. My mind feels much more calm all around and I cannot even "feel" the dex working anymore, it just works much better in the background.

I haven't noticed any "lengthening of duration" of my meds but then again I take it after they've worn off, but they do work much more smoother and are harder to detect, but the enhanced mental clarity is great.

Magnesium is the most abundant nutrient in the body after potassium, and it responsible for over 300 processes. The brain literally runs on the stuff, and amphetamines lower the amount in your body.

Don't take calcium with magnesium. Calcium blocks absorption of magnesium and steals it. Most suppliments with both have more calcium than magnesium, this is basically highway robbery because it would make both useless. Geesus.