If anyone tries this expensive program to improve working memory, please, please, please post and tell us how it works for you.
Specifically,

1.What are your ADHD symptoms?

2.Which ones, if any, improved through the program?

3.In your personal opinion, do you find a strong link between your ADHD symptoms and your working memory?

4.Compared to any, cheap, online/computer programs and games aimed to improve working memory - I am trying Lumosity for free, believe there are tons of them - that are not as elaborate, multifaceted & researched as CogMed... well... do you feel/believe/experience that there is a significant enough difference?

5.Do you feel there could possibly be any justification for the high cost of this program?

Hi there. My son's neuropsych recommended this program for him. He is diagnosed with ADHD and EFD. I dug around (as i always do). Though I don't have any personal experience with it (yet), there is a local provider here that I spoke with who had some really promising things to say regarding the few clients that have been through it here in Phoenix (it is still new here). At the time I spoke with him, he was also doing the program, and from an adult's perspecitve, he said he was very excited at the results it had on him so far with his memory. He then gave me the number of a mom who's 19-year-old daughter went through it, and her and I talked quite awhile about it. She said it was VERY hard for her daughter to do, but with the results she had on her memroy, her daughter is a lot more confident in her classes and is doing much better. She would also highly recommend it. Dr. Ed Hallowell has recently as of September added it to his list of therapies he has to offer at his treatment centers.

As for the cost, considering the Dore program (over 4 grand) 1500 is a drop in the bucket for only 5 weeks and bam, you've got some results on the working memory. Long-term studies need to be done to evalulate the permanence, tho they do offer a refresher course if some benefits are lost.

I am also doing lumosity, and I reall like it too, compared to some of the other games out there for WM.

I'd also like to hear what you find out, and what you decide to do.

I have been studying CogMed, have talked to researchers, including Dr. David Rabiner and am about to start the program myself. The clinicians who are using it are reporting excellent results.

I know that for many, medication isn't an option, so I want to see what this program is like. I can report back on my personal experiences as soon as I get started.

Terry Matlen, ACSW

www.addconsults.com

Dear TerryM
Are you doing it? We are thinking of starting it for our son - would be very grateful for any information.
Helen

Hi,
I just started and though it's too early to really tell, I seem to be able to hang onto numbers better. I can keep you posted, if you'd like.

Terry

HI Terry! Thank you for taking the time to post what you are noticing so far. I would also appreciate knowing what you think of the program, both while you going at it and afterwards if you would like. You have a captive audience!

About the number recall, the mother I talked to said that her daughter could also now recall numbers without any difficuties, so that is interesting to hear.

Hi,
No problem; I'll be happy to note my progress. But I also have to be clear and open that I will be working with CogMed on some projects, so please keep that in mind. I sometimes do PR related work with various companies and individuals. But with CogMed, I wanted to learn first hand what it was all about because so many people ask me about cognitive re-training programs. Many cannot take meds or need to find ways to augment the medication, as they still run into problems with executive functioning and working memory.

First, the program for adults is not the same as the one for kids. I haven't seen the kids' program, but have it and will take a look if you'd like.

The adult program is a serious of eight exercises that must be completed daily. At first, I thought they would be like Brain Gym by Nintendo, but these are definately tougher; at least for me. But I could see early on that I was forcing my brain to work differently and I can track my progress on the graphs that are in the program. So for example, the first two days, I could only remember a short sequence of numbers. That is getting better and better and somehow- and it's just plain weird- my brain has figured out ways to remember them.

Each exercise is a bit different. One, which I find hard, shows a short series of numbers that blink on, then off, on a rotating grid. You have to remember where they are, as the grid rotates 90 degrees. Since I have NEVER been good with spatial things, this was a real challenge. BUT....I'm doing better as my brain is being re-trained.

I've only done this for about a week (with a break due to a medical emergency), but already it seems that I can remember things like phone numbers when I call Information; something I was NEVER able to do and which frustrated me to no end.

I'm hoping that as I complete the program, these skills will generalize into more every day settings. I know that before I started the training, I talked to a number of clinicians and researchers to get their feedback and every single one was very impressed with the outcome. They said their clients found that even after many months later, they saw great improvement with their working memory.

I'll keep you posted-

Terry

Thank you Terry! Thanks also for being upfront about your involvement with CogMed too. Can't wait to hear the next installment. LOL!

Yes, thanks Terry - I too am very interested in your progress.

I am seeing a therapist here in Massachusetts, and he suggested I might benefit from Cogmed as well. The only thing I find hard is the price, I wouldn't mind doing the program, its just 1500 hundred dollars is very hard to come up with. Its not like 150 bucks which is still hard but not as hard. He did say if I was one of the first few that started on this program, they are offering 200 dollars off the normal 1500 hundred price. Its still too high for me. With my normal wages and bills for the month, I barely make enough for my wife and I to live decently. If the price dropped or if I had the money I would definetely consider it, from what I read about Cogmed, most people retain 79% of what they learned from the program, years after doing it. So thats a good thing.

Panther, it is expensive, and it's great that you were offered a discout. However, considering the cost of other neurotherapies coupled with the very high sucess rate and how quickly results can be obtained, it cannot be beat for exactly what it treats.

Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd pop in to give you an update.
I had to take a break from the program as I was traveling and as I mentioned earlier, had a family medical emergency. But I will be starting again shortly with my Cogmed coach.

With only a week under my belt, I still notice an improvement with remembering numbers, ie phone numbers, adding numbers- that sort of thing. I'll be curious to see what happens when I complete the full program.

And I agree; though this is an expensive program, in the long run, it is way less expensive than a lifetime of medication.

Here's some more information on the training:

Cogmed Working Memory Training is a software-based intervention designed to improve working memory in children and adults. Through active and engaging exercises, children and adults train at home five days a week for five weeks. Every participant has a Personal Coach at a Cogmed Qualified Practice who leads the training, analyzes results and provides encouragement through weekly phone calls.

Published, peer-reviewed and controlled clinical studies have demonstrated that, upon completion of Cogmed Working Memory Training, 80% of participants have significantly improved their ability to concentrate and use complex reasoning skills over the long term.

You can request more info at www.cogmed.com

Terry

www.addconsults.com
www.myADDStore.com

Thanks for the update, we are all waiting for you to finish and tell us what you think! LOL. So, you feel that what you gained in one week that you did a while back, even that has stayed with you and not slipped away? :-)

Yep, I will keep you posted.
I haven't called information to get a phone number since then, so I can't test my skills in that way. But I seem to be quicker in figuring out restaurant tabs. We shall see- I'll let you know.

Terry

Hello All,

I'm about to start Cogmed QM..Hopefully within the next two weeks...Just waiting for the programme to be sent,complete a few forms and Pay the £675!!!and then be registered.
Will keep this thread regularly updated...Really feeling positive about it...i just got too remember, not to put all my Easter eggs in one basket.

Is there anyone else here, on the Cogmed QM prog?

TD

Thanks teadrinker I will be follwing your progress.

Hello ALL...So far I've done about a dozen sessions on Cogmed QM...Before I start writing reams n reams on my plus n negatives personal experiences of the prog so far... just feel free to ask questions about it,either on this thread or the pm services..i'll be more than happy to share.

TD

If you feel like writing away, I'm sure lots of readers looking into CogMed will appreciate your perspective of both the pros and the cons so far. Me included! :-) Then, you only have to do it once.

Yes please Terry - give us your impressions so far

Hi all,

Thanks for your patience!
After a few false starts, due to family emergencies, I'm back on track and about 1/2 through the program.

So far, I notice the same thing- I can remember numbers now, particularly when I call Information and no longer need to scramble for a pad of paper/pen or a family member to thrust the phone to.

Will continue to keep you posted!

Terry

Thanks Terry, for the update! Was waiting with baited breath.

But, is it only numbers so far? There is so much more to life than numbers, or will that ability gradually transfer to other facts, figures, chores, responsibilities, assignments, etc?

Can't wait for your next update. :-)

Hi Frazzle,

That's what I'm noticing so far, but I'm hoping it will generalize into other areas of my life. I know that in talking to other clinicians, their patients report that it helps them in various other areas having to do with working memory and staying on task better.

Stay tuned!

Terry

TerryM, I would also be interested in finding out more about CogMed . I'm currently doing the Learning Breakthrough program and have seen a lot of improvements. Please update when you have a chance.

thanks

It is so interesting to read all of this information on cogmed. My daughter has been diagnosed with ADD as well as a working memory disorder and they had recommended the cogmed program to improve mostly her working memory. I am hoping to find some feedback on the program and if anyone else has tried it before we spend $1500! I will try this luminosity program that I have read about as well. I greatly appreciate any feedback on the cogmed program. Thanks!

One of the Dore mums has used it post Dore and was very happy with the results. She has promised to come back and post about it after she gets the final report.

Hi. that's me I think :)
We have just reached the end of a school year so now seems like a good time to report back. First a health warning - we are concerned parents, not experimental scientists, so we have employed many tactics to try to help our son. Therefore, it is inevitably going to be difficult to disentangle the effect of any particular factor. However, I think that all the things we have done have played their part, including Cogmed.
We did Cogmed as soon as we had finished Dore. Dore had already made a big difference to Luke and his increasing cooperation made us more aware of his working memory problem [in other words, we began to be able to see that the reason he was not following instructions was because he couldn't remember them, not because he was being defiant. Well, not all the time anyway :rolleyes:]. His SATs were coming up [still waiting for the results :mad:] and he was expressing a wish to do well so it seemed like the right time to do Cogmed.
After Dore it was relatively easy to do, lasting only 5 weeks for one half hour session a day. I sat in the same room as Luke just to keep him company but didn't need to play any active part. At first there was lots of moaning so I had to be very encouraging, but once he got the hang of it he was OK - it is self explanatory, all the instructions are on screen. Before we started we both had a long phone conversation with the mentor, and thereafter she rang once a week and spoke at length to both of us. As with Dore, this element of external 'assessment' was important in keeping the programme going. At the end of each session there is a Robot game, which Luke enjoyed, and there is lots of ongoing encouragement from the screen Robot. Some of it is a bit corny but Luke didn't seem to mind.
At the beginning and end of the 5 weeks there were some forms which Luke, us and one of his teachers [we chose the SENCO] had to fill in - essentially they are the ADHD 'diagnosis' questions and on the basis of any differences, plus Luke's results from the programme, plus our conversations, a final report was prepared and sent to us. In our case it said that Luke's initial working memory level was extemely low [which was confirmed by an EEG he had had] and that as a result of the programme it had improved considerably, but was still below average for his age group.
As with Dore it is postulated that improvements will continue after the programme has finished, so we will get another follow up phone call in the next few weeks to see how he is going on.

Hi, wasn't sure if there is a word limit so I thought I would post in two parts.

There is a new thing as well, apparently a response to adult Cogmed users who were concerned that they may lose whatever gains they have made over time. After you have finished the programme and received your final report 100 hours worth of exercises are made available on a web site for one year. There is no external assessment; people can do them as often as they feel necessary, or not at all. At the moment Luke has agreed to do at least one a week because he does see the benefits.

I can see that he is sharper, and remembers things better [instructions, song lyrics, even homeworks sometimes!]. I would say that as an ongoing package of things that we have done for Luke that Cogmed has certainly played its part and I am glad that we did it. I hope that this is helpful to anyone who may be considering it - if there are any specific questions that anyone wants to ask then please do.:)

I also recently finished some working memory training and it has been very helpful. So far my mind is clearer and I feel more alert. I started the training after reading about Cogmed. I read the research study "Computerized Training of Working Memory in Children with ADHD" and thought that I would try to duplicate some of the same exercises. This is the study on which the Cogmed training is based.

From the results that I've experienced, I would highly recommend working memory training. Cogmed is probably the best option since it is well structured and there are regular consultations with a therapist (helps with the motivation).

Here are two sites with interesting info on working memory & Cogmed:

http://add.about.com/od/researchstudies/a/workingmemory.htm

http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/3430.html

Cogmed therapist usually provide free screenings to test for working memory deficiency so it's at least worth looking into. For anyone is interested in trying this on their own, I will go through a list of the resources I used in a separate blog entry within the next few days.

tjake

My daughter is starting week 3 of Cogmed training today. If you are interested in my posts see the Cogmed thread in Software.

I also recently finished some working memory training and it has been very helpful. So far my mind is clearer and I feel more alert. I started the training after reading about Cogmed. I read the research study "Computerized Training of Working Memory in Children with ADHD" and thought that I would try to duplicate some of the same exercises. This is the study on which the Cogmed training is based.

From the results that I've experienced, I would highly recommend working memory training. Cogmed is probably the best option since it is well structured and there are regular consultations with a therapist (helps with the motivation).

Here are two sites with interesting info on working memory & Cogmed:

http://add.about.com/od/researchstudies/a/workingmemory.htm

http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/3430.html

Cogmed therapist usually provide free screenings to test for working memory deficiency so it's at least worth looking into. For anyone is interested in trying this on their own, I will go through a list of the resources I used in a separate blog entry within the next few days.

tjake

Thanks for that info Jake!
Have you noticed any improvements in impulsivity from Cogmed? Are you better able to think before acting? Are you more patient?

Please be honest as I am really curious whether this just specifically affects working memory only.

Thanks,
Smitten.

I should have put in the link....I realized that the "software" section may be harder to find than I thought.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51488

If anyone wants to try the working memory training without going through Cogmed, below is a list of the resources that I used. I don't know if all the things mentioned here would be useful for kids since they might not find some of the exercises to be entertaining enough to keep motivated for the full 25 days.

To start with, let me go through a quick summary of the double-blind study "Computerized Training of Working Memory in Children with ADHD". The study included 54 children with ADHD. Half the study participants spend about 40 minutes/day, 5 days/week, for 5 weeks training on working memory tasks that included spatial visual memory, auditory memory, sequence memory, etc. The control group also spend the same amount of time on working memory tasks that were kept at an "easy" level. The results showed a significant improvement for the treatment group in working memory as well as a "reduction in symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity" .

One of the main features of the computerized training is the automatic adjustment in difficulty so that the participants were always working at a challenging level. I trained on memory games mainly from lumosity.com and brainbuilder.com. All of their programs adjust difficulty as you go along.

Here's the breakdown of the type of memory training, the exercises I used and the amount of training per day:

1) Visuospatial memory [remembering the position of objects in space]
a)"Monster Memory" game at Lumosity.com (a fun game; about 10mins)
b) "Moneycomb" memory game at Lumosity.com (also pretty entertaining; about 10mins)

2) Auditory memory: Auditory sequencing exercises at brainbuilder.com (not as fun; about 7-10mins)

3) Visual Sequence memory: Visual sequencing exercises at brainbuilder.com (about 7-10mins)

4) Spatial Sequence Memory (about 5 minutes): I did not find any good exercises for this. Fitbrains.com has a "Crime Scene Shuffle" game that has some spatial sequencing. Lumosity also has a sequence game in their warm-up section. The "Simon Says" sequence game can help with this.

It's possible that programs like Brain Age have some good memory exercises. You can also try web sites such as My Brain Trainer and Happy Neuron.

I spend about 35-40 minutes daily on the training, usually split up into two sessions. I'm still continuing regular training but at a slower pace.

Once again, I highly recommend some type of working memory training since most ADD folks have working memory deficits such as trouble remembering sequences and directions.

BTW, Lumosity subscription is $9.95/month (they have a 2 week free trial) & Brainbuilder is $7.95/month

good luck,
Tjake

Smitten, The biggest improvement that I've seen is in my mental clarity. My mind feels less cluttered and I'm more alert. Overall the improved clarity and alertness has helped me to be more focused. I think it has also improved my impulsivity but it's hard to tell. Self-observance is a difficult thing :) But I was not particularly impulsive to start with.

As far as the Cogmed training study, it does state "This training also improved response inhibition and reasoning and resulted in a reduction of the parent-rated inattentive symptoms of ADHD". They measured response inhibition using the "Stroop interference" task.

Tjake

Just as a caution for anyone planning to do WM training, it should be noted that about 20% of the participants in the Cogmed study did not see a significant improvement in their ADHD symptoms.

If anyone is considering Cogmed, I would suggest that you find a Cogmed therapist in your area from the Cogmed website and ask the therapist for references of others in your area that have already completed their training. This at least will give you a better idea of the changes to expect. I think people are generally more than happy to share their experiences.

The feedback we have here is somewhat limited thus far, so talking personally with someone in your area might give a better idea of what to expect.

Tjake

What TexanJake is saying about "20% saw no improvement in ADHD symptoms" is true, however about 80% did, right? That's not terrible odds....as a matter of fact, for an"alternative therapy" that's pretty good.

1) What is the cheapest way to get started? (Continental Europe, English)
2) Does it make sence to try something cheaper first like Lumosity
3) Does the software contain reliable measurement of progress?

Thanks

You're right kokopelli. The 80% improvement rate is especially good considering that everything from lack of sleep to chronic stress and sleep apnea can have many of the same symptoms as ADHD and therefore can be easily mis-diagnosed.


mrsmith, I think that choosing an option for working memory training depends on your situation. Training working memory for 40+ minutes a day over a period of 5 weeks is a bit harder than it looks. There will be some days when you are really improving in you memory capacity but the next week you might regress a bit. So it takes some motivation to keep with it even when you might not see any obvious changes.

This is the main reason that Cogmed is better. They have a more structured program and therapists that follow up with you regularly. This is useful for motivation and gives you more confidence to stick with the program. They also have more variety in the games which will help with the interest level. The $1500 out of pocket also serves as further motivation to stick with it.:)

Going the DIY path is definitely cheaper but you have to be disciplined enough to stick with it through the full program without outside encouragement. Lumosity and Brain Trainer also track progress but from what I've read, it seems that Cogmed does a better job of it.

I think the DIY route is for those who are: very skeptical about WM training effectiveness and don't want to put down $1500 on a potential treatment OR confident that they are disciplined enough to stick with the training for 5 weeks with no outside help.

Going down that DIY path, all you have to lose is about $35. Even if you don't get the improvements in ADHD symptoms as I've seen, at least you should end up with better working memory(which is fundamental to intelligence). It's kind of like using brain training software like Brain Age for 5 weeks, but with more intensity and dedication. Regardless of which method you choose, it still takes a major commitment for 5 weeks.

Tjake

Hi all,

I promised an update, so here goes. It's been months since I completed the training and I'm still able to recall phone numbers in ways I was never able to do before. I'm also able to do math without falling apart (I'm pretty sure I have an LD in math).

In general, I "feel" a difference, but can't say specifically what it is. My house isn't more tidy, I still struggle with piles, etc. But I'd say I feel more clarity in my thinking.

I have talked to a number of clinicians who offer this program and have heard some remarkable stories (I was interested in adults' experiences). One was about a man who, after completing the program, was able for the first time in his life, to drive where he needed to go and not get lost or confused.

Others found an improvement in memory and just...clearer thinking.

I suppose this is something that each person will have to decide for themselves whether it's worth pursuing. I can say that in my case, it was, because remembering phone numbers and other related memory "issues" were troublesome for me.

Hope this helps-

Terry

Hi Terry, thank you for posting. Good stuff! :)

My pleasure, Frazzle.

Wish I had more specifics to share-
Terry