View Full Version : Neurofeedback


okok
01-23-08, 08:46 PM
Anyone had or have the opportunity to look into or try this?

I'm reading a book that talks about it (The Head Trip by Jeff Warren (http://www.amazon.com/Head-Trip-Adventures-Wheel-Consciousness/dp/1400064848/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201134896&sr=8-1), if you're into consciousness studies at all, I recommend it, I find it inspirational).

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback (like the warnings up top say, it's not the most bias-free and factual source for this... but most things aren't).

I won't go into it at great length, but basically it measures the levels of your EEG at different frequency ranges. There's a particular range, the SMR or low beta range, that is associated with focus, eliminating distractions, and getting a clear picture or awareness of your surroundings. The readouts can give you a visual indicator of this, as opposed to say theta waves, which can represent distraction or daydreaminess. Neurofeedback takes place over something like 40 sessions, where you watch these indicators and basically try to snap your brain into that state. Often it takes 30 frustrating sessions before one just "gets it", and for the rest of the time they can learn to evoke this state more or less at will, or at least more wilfully than they could before.

This sounds amazing to me, because it's permanent. It has a firm psychological basis, that is, operant conditioning. A bell or some similar sound will play when you reach your predetermined "desired" level (which can change throughout sessions), reinforcing you.

This has been and is being used with people who have ADD. I can't or at least won't make any decisive claims about its usefulness, as I haven't tried it or talked personally with anyone who has, but it's something I'm very interested in and I believe in the science it's based on.

I think a huge factor in this has to do with the people working with you and coaching you through this. I believe this has potential but I have reason to believe that a lot of people are claiming it does things that it does not, or not properly explaining its purpose or mechanism, and many aren't getting the desired or possible effects, and this has gotten it some bad reviews from the science community.

It's something I want to try, really bad. But there is nothing of the sort anywhere near me, so I can't, for now. Anyone have any experience with this?

I think it's worth looking into. It may not cure everything but learning how to reach a very elusive brain state (it can be elusive even for non-ADD people) can only be a good thing.

okok
01-23-08, 08:52 PM
Here's a particularly good resource on it, from a wikipedia citation: http://www.aapb.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3330

With a good page of warnings, related to what I was saying about why a lot of the medical community looks down on neurofeedback (you absolutely have to be sure you're going to somewhere reputable, where they know what they're doing and aren't making outrageous claims): http://www.aapb.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3276

Teadrinker2005
02-07-08, 07:55 PM
Hi okok,Just got sum of my results from the NHS psych...suggested..I wear ear plugs,take Prozac and read a book on strategies too cope with adhd...Sumhow for me that aint enuff...Anyhow last week I contacted a local artist who uses NFB for creativity...and flogs NFB gadgets...she's a lovely person and very passionate about her art and the product...so i had a go on the gizmo...And from the EEG..My brain woz in alpha and theta.. and during that session i unable too produce ne beta waves!!!!
So from that i done a bit of research and wot a suprise NFB aint big in the UK..theres a couple of practices in London,theres one in York and another in Swansea.
So i've booked a session at Swansea University...cost 250 notes... the session takes a couple of hours, maybe four hours..too get a decent reading of brain waves.

So wot was yours or nebodies elses NFB assessment/experience like?Also does anyone mind sharing wot there brainwaves from their frontal lobes was before their NFB sessions ?and lastly ne other individuals information regarding NFB wud be very helpful.

Got my EEG session on that extra day of the year...so in due course i'll post my noodlefeedback...cant wait too go to Swansea as well... C'MON

Teadrinker

okok
02-08-08, 06:27 AM
Here's a very rough sketch of the ranges:

DELTA: very slow, prominent in deep sleep
THETA: associated with distraction, daydreaming, internal thoughts, etc.
ALPHA: associated with relaxation, everyday awareness/wakefulness. Learning to boost alpha waves can help with anxiety, tension, etc.
LOW BETA: the SMR or sensorimotor response range. This is generally inversely proportional to muscle tone. Meaning, if you're fidgety, restless, tense, etc, these waves are rarely present. These are the FOCUS waves, a kind of calm anticipation and lucid awareness. Most people can't get these whenever they want, but it's even harder to reach for ADD. This is the one you want to boost.
BETA: also related to concentration, not as much emphasis though as the SMR
GAMMA: No one's totally sure, possibly kind of orchestrates the rest of your brain signals.

A first session with high theta would be typical. Showing alpha means you were at least relaxed. Progress in neurofeedback comes with many (like 40) sessions probably over the course of a year, and you need a good guide, and it's probably not cheap. An EEG reading alone only tells you how you were right then, but doesn't help you to learn like the sessions do. That's pretty cool that that woman let you try it.

Like I said though, I haven't tried this personally. But I want to. No one around here does it.

Teadrinker2005
03-02-08, 10:19 AM
Wocha,

Well heres my feedback on neurofeedback-

Last week went to Swansea-saw the University psych for the students, who runs a private neurofeedback practice.
The whole process took around 2 hours...which i answered many standard questions...which was quite an eye opener...as i hadn't taken into consideration serious Head injuries-which was very alarming as i had a dozen or more major blows too my bonce over the years-the first was sommersaulting out my cot as a 9 month old and smashin my forehead on the dressingtable breaking in two the handle to the draw!Other head injuries included- was aving a 'A' board sign wrapped round my head,a cricket stump driven into my forehead,bottled and a sailing boon slammed repeatively around my head and four guys using my head as a trampoline...These incidents luckily didnt occur on the sameday !!EEK!But the impact must have a detrimental brain functioning effect!..so i could be Rocky punched drunk ??Yo bodicus!

Getting back too the QEEG..after all the questions...I had a skull cap with sensor probes placed on my head and had to sit perfectly still for 8 minutes,which I had my eyes open for a minute and then closed for a minute AND REPEAT this for the 8 minute duration...basicly that was QEEG.

From that you have too wait two weeks for the results..

The results come with a birds eyeview coloured picture of a head...indicating areas of the brain...if its green its normal activity and if its red...it shows high theta activity...indicating possible ADD.

From that, you then have a choice too have neurofeedback sessions, too improve focus and concentration brainwaves.

I havent decided to go ahead with the sessions so far, as i'm awaiting the results of the QEEG...btw, i luved Swansea...wot a great place.

TD

FrazzleDazzle
03-02-08, 11:20 AM
Oh, TD! I will mark this thread too, to see what becomes of your results. Head-bashing as you describe could definitely contribute to some of your troubles. I hope that throught your fantastic tenacity you find some answers and solutions that can assist you! Best of luck with the results, I look forward to thier recommendations for you. :-)

Teadrinker2005
05-01-08, 09:33 PM
Hello All...had too wait a while for the QEEG report...a problem with their computer...anyhow I got the report.
Unfortunately i'm unable to post the 46 birdeye diagrams of my brainwaves...but i'll have go trying to explain the professional findings of International 10-20 system(this database is descibed in detail in 'Thatcher' neurofeedback reference book.)

EEG interpretation-Green is Healthy,Blue and Red is not(very significant)

Eyes Closed-Delta dark blue/light blue/patches of green
Theta dark blue/light blue.
Alpha light blue/one patch dark blue by left ear/swirls of green.
Beta,0,1,2,3-green on out skirt light blue in centre.
High Beta-Green and areas of yellow-which is on the color scale to red.

In a nutshell-unable to relax and enter a restorative psychological state.

Eyes open -Delta dark blue/light blue/patches of green
Theta dark blue/light blue/a bit of green.
Alpha light blue/dark blue /swirls of green.
Beta,0,1,2,3-green on out skirt light blue in centre.
High Beta-Green and areas of yellow and red.

Summary and Feedback-The brainmap suggests several patterns which point to severe difficulties in entering a restorative psychological state-suppressed slow wave activity during eyes closed as well as increased in high frequency beta activity over the right central,and left temporal,posterior temperoral and occipital regions.
Since a lack of restoration generally impacts upon concentration levels-its suggested downtraining of high beta C4 as part of SMR training to counteract anxiety and to enhance general attention and then followed by downtraing of high beta activity in the left occipital region.

TD- about to start NFB in a couple of weeks on May 18th.

Tilly
05-22-08, 10:32 PM
Good luck with your NFB. I hope you have great success!