View Full Version : Great! My Psychiatrist refuses to see me anymore!


Hutch1ns
01-26-08, 07:53 AM
Hey all,

Well my Psych decided to dump me on the street again after I told her I needed a higher dosage than 60mg IR/day and that I had been taking more than that for a long time. She gave me a one month supply of all my meds (only 60mg/day of Adderall) and told me to find a new doctor and that she wasn't going to prescribe me my meds after these scripts ran out. She told me to try this place called Hallowell who specializes in ADD and could likely prescribe me the correct dosage. She refuses to prescribe anyone more than 60mg a day of either the IR or XR. Well I called that Hallowell place and they are no longer in the area (they're located about 2 hours away now and don't have any open appointments for 3 months anyways.) When I went to fill my scripts, I couldn't get the full 90 20mg tablets because my secondary insurance would only pay for 60 tablets (they pay my copays but I had my yearly deductible from my primary insurance and my secondary insurance would pick that up.) So that left me with 60 20mg tablets and I take 100mg/daily. I've got 2 pills left and no Doctor still. I've called about 15 different #'s from my blue cross Massachusetts directory and only 3 of the #'s actually still worked. I talked to this place called Arbour Health which is located a couple miles down the road and the lady told me that my Doctor, by law, has to keep prescribing me my medication until I'm able to find a new doctor. She even told me that I could have my Doctor call them so they could inform her of that law. Well I called my Doc and she refused to even call them and said that she cannot prescribe me any more medication and hung up on me. Apparently they didn't teach her about Psychiatric law in Argentina where she got her rent-a-'medical degree.' Arbour Health is a no go because they require me to be in therapy with one of their therapist and have atleast 3 visits before any medication can be prescribed. The best I've been able to find is an appointment with a Psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD but has no availible appointments until March. My PCP refuses to prescribe psychiatric meds no matter what. It's now saturday so nothing is open anyways. I'm refuse to be without my medication and will get it whether it lands me in jail or not if I start to withdraw. The pain from withdrawing is unbearable and I refuse to go through it again. This is the same Doctor who did this to me before several years ago. I've got a big hole in my condo's wall still after putting my head through it from the frustration/pain of the withdrawals. I tried getting an appointment with my old Psychiatrist (although he's about an hour away) who used to prescribe me 120mg/day IR (30mg 4x daily) but he's not taking new patients. I feel like I'm all out of options to obtain it legally or even from a friend (none of my friends have any nor know anyone who does.) I just got a job that I absolutely love doing what I enjoy most (Network/Sys Admin + Tech Support) and I'm afraid I'm going to lose the job because of this neglect. I just wish I could find a Psych who actually cares about his/her patients instead of only caring about themselves.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

-Hutch

theta
01-26-08, 09:45 AM
Thats a sad story. :( If worst comes to worst wellbutrin might help with the withdrawal.

Bupropion for the Treatment of Methamphetamine Dependence.
Elkashef AM, Rawson RA, Anderson AL, Li SH, Holmes T, Smith EV, Chiang N, Kahn R, Vocci F, Ling W, Pearce VJ, McCann M, Campbell J, Gorodetzky C, Haning W, Carlton B, Mawhinney J, Weis D.

1Clinical Medical Branch, Division of Pharmacotherapies and Medical Consequences, National Institutes of Health, National Institute on Drug Abuse, Bethesda, MD, USA.

Bupropion was tested for efficacy in increasing weeks of abstinence in methamphetamine-dependent patients, compared to placebo. This was a double-blind placebo-controlled study, with 12 weeks of treatment and a 30-day follow-up. Five outpatient substance abuse treatment clinics located west of the Mississippi participated in the study. One hundred and fifty-one treatment-seekers with DSM-IV diagnosis of methamphetamine dependence were consented and enrolled. Seventy-two participants were randomized to placebo and 79 to sustained-release bupropion 150 mg twice daily. Patients were asked to come to the clinic three times per week for assessments, urine drug screens, and 90-min group psychotherapy. The primary outcome was the change in proportion of participants having a methamphetamine-free week. Secondary outcomes included: urine for quantitative methamphetamine, self-report of methamphetamine use, subgroup analyses of balancing factors and comorbid conditions, addiction severity, craving, risk behaviors for HIV, and use of other substances. The generalized estimating equation regression analysis showed that, overall, the difference between bupropion and placebo groups in the probability of a non-use week over the 12-week treatment period was not statistically significant (p=0.09). Mixed model regression was used to allow adjustment for baseline factors in addition to those measured (site, gender, level of baseline use, and level of symptoms of depression). This subgroup analysis showed that bupropion had a significant effect compared to placebo, among male patients who had a lower level of methamphetamine use at baseline (p<0.0001). Comorbid depression and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder did not change the outcome. These data suggest that bupropion, in combination with behavioral group therapy, was effective for increasing the number of weeks of abstinence in participants with low-to-moderate methamphetamine dependence, mainly male patients, regardless of their comorbid condition.Neuropsychopharmacology advance online publication, 20 June 2007; doi:10.1038/sj.npp.1301481.

PMID: 17581531 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

1: Neuropsychopharmacology. 2006 Jul;31(7):1537-44. Epub 2005 Nov 23.
Links
Bupropion reduces methamphetamine-induced subjective effects and cue-induced craving.
Newton TF, Roache JD, De La Garza R 2nd, Fong T, Wallace CL, Li SH, Elkashef A, Chiang N, Kahn R.

Department of Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences, David Geffen School of Medicine at The University of California at Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA 90024, USA. tnewton@mednet.ucla.edu

Bupropion is an antidepressant with stimulant properties, which inhibits the reuptake of dopamine (DA) and norepinepherine, and is purported to enhance DA neurotransmission. Bupropion is considered an appealing candidate medication for the treatment of methamphetamine dependence. The current laboratory study was set forth to assess the impact of bupropion treatment on the subjective effects produced by methamphetamine in the laboratory. We also assessed the effects of bupropion treatment on craving elicited by exposure to videotaped methamphetamine cues. A total of 26 participants were enrolled and 20 completed the entire study (n=10 placebo and n=10 bupropion, parallel groups design). Bupropion treatment was associated with reduced ratings of 'any drug effect' (p<0.02), and 'high' (p<0.02) following methamphetamine administration. There was also a significant bupropion-by-cue exposure interaction on General Craving Scale total score (p<0.002), and on the Behavioral Intention subscale (p<0.001). Overall, the data reveal that bupropion reduced acute methamphetamine-induced subjective effects and reduced cue-induced craving. Importantly, these data provide a rationale for the evaluation of bupropion in the treatment of methamphetamine dependence.

PMID: 16319910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

flatlinez
01-26-08, 09:52 AM
Don't give up. Be insistent and show up at their office. They will not want a confrontation, or possibly having you physically removed from the office. This is the way to get things done when people are being paper pushers. Your most promising targets seem to be the doctors that have previously prescribed your medicine for you. Good luck.

theta
01-26-08, 09:54 AM
Don't give up. Be insistent and show up at their office. They will not want a confrontation, or possibly having you physically removed from the office. This is the way to get things done when people are being paper pushers. Your most promising targets seem to be the doctors that have previously prescribed your medicine for you. Good luck.

Hmm in that case bring a friend with a camrea or a TV news crew.

flatlinez
01-26-08, 10:01 AM
Hmm in that case bring a friend with a camrea or a TV news crew.
Haha. No, nothing like that. Okay, probably a bad idea.

flatlinez
01-26-08, 10:11 AM
It just seems like some persistence might help, here. previous doctor. Find a copy of that law, if you can, and show it to your previous doctor. Have someone draft up a legal-looking letter as a threat to sue. Doctors hate lawsuits. You're not going to win her over, but you might be willing to burn that bridge.

DeloresMelon
01-26-08, 10:20 AM
I wonder if you could get free advice from a lawyer on this matter, over the phone at the minimum...??

I am shocked that a medical professional would leave you out in the cold so to speak. That's beyond unprofessional.

Start recording (notes) every single conversation with everyone you talk to regarding this matter. If you find info online to back up something, print it out. If someone suggests calling so and so, call them.

I'm wondering too, have you tried other meds? Could she prescribe something different that would be more in her comfort zone, at least until you find a new doc?

I still can't help but think (and watching too much law and order could be to blame) this could turn out to be a legal issue.

QueensU_girl
01-26-08, 10:23 AM
re: Prescribing maximums (in mg/day)

-What is the max allowed level of Adderall IR per day in mg?

-Has she given you XR + IR?
-How high can that go in dosing?

MonkeyGirl
01-26-08, 01:09 PM
Don't give up. Be insistent and show up at their office. They will not want a confrontation, or possibly having you physically removed from the office. This is the way to get things done when people are being paper pushers. Your most promising targets seem to be the doctors that have previously prescribed your medicine for you. Good luck.
I have a feeling that's bad advice. :rolleyes: Just think about it.

Hutch1ns
01-26-08, 02:46 PM
Don't give up. Be insistent and show up at their office. They will not want a confrontation, or possibly having you physically removed from the office. This is the way to get things done when people are being paper pushers. Your most promising targets seem to be the doctors that have previously prescribed your medicine for you. Good luck.

Tried that and the other Doctor in the office (doesn't write scripts, just a psychologist who has trouble speaking english) kicked me out after I begged that secretary for awhile. The Doctor is only in the office every other thursday, so she's nearly impossible to find. Her secretaries write most scripts out for her. The other Doctor nearly hit me after I asked him to repeat himself about 15 times because I could not understand/hear what he was saying (significant hearing loss although 100x better than what it was before.) I guess he had been asking me to leave because he finally walked over to the door and yelled at me and pointed out. It was a good thing he didn't try grabbing my arm because the last person to do that ended up with a broken nose. 6 different skin graphs, 3 from under each arm that were taken from my 6 major ear surgeries and if you grab my upper arm it hurts really bad.

She won't go any higher than 60mg a day, XR or IR. She won't go higher than 30mg IR and 30mg XR for example. She knows that I will find two doctors to see at the same time if she keeps me on 60mg daily. I don't let myself get underdosed and I know myself better than anyone, regardless of what kind of degree they hold. I've had plenty of testing done to show that the high Adderall dosage isn't causing damage to my body, especially my heart. I've had several EKG's over the past couple years and all have come back perfect. She tried telling my Mom and I that she worried that my dopamine would become depleted at higher doses. I quickly reminded her that dopamine is replenished when you SLEEP! She then looked it up and said ok but never apologized for trying to feed me incorrect, manipulating information.

I've actually tried bupropian (wellbutrin) a couple months ago and still have the bottle at my desk. I will never take it again no matter what. The first pill I took sent me to the hospital with an abnormal heart beat/heart palpulations(sp?) It was one of the more scary moments of my life. Every 30 seconds or so I'd get an enormous heart beat that I could feel with my hand while holding it against my back or chest. My Mom could feel it as well, stating that it felt like my heart kept trying to jump out of my chest...

I'm gonna try the walk in center right now, wish me luck!

QueensU_girl
01-26-08, 04:19 PM
Walk IN clinics don't hand out controlled drugs.

You are about as likely to Vicodin or Morphine as you will Adderall...


NB She may only want to go above 60 mg for safety reasons, and I have to respect her for that.

If you develop high blood pressure or get a stroke, you will be mad that she DID give you high levels of drugs, despite the risks.

Young people *can* have heart attacks and strokes, eh?

Sometimes Doctors actually DO know what they are doing, in terms of drug prescribing safety!

umami
01-26-08, 05:26 PM
I have a feeling that's bad advice. :rolleyes: Just think about it.


I agree with MonkeyGirl that showing up at the physician's office to demand medication is a bad idea. *revision* - was a bad idea...

Did your pdoc mention any concern that you may be experiencing psychologic dependence or engaging in "drug-seeking behavior"?

You situation sounds unfortunate, but you may consider finding a new pdoc because your situation sounds pretty complex.

Good luck in figuring things out.

lostwitness
01-26-08, 05:35 PM
My advice:

Phone her again, and respectfully and maturely ask if she will take you as a patient again. Tell her you will cooperate fully with her dosing and you two can come to some sort of compromise as long as you are on her good side. Tell her that you understand her reasoning, respect her opinion etc. Only say things that absolutely she can not take the wrong way to keep her respect! Write out a script if you need to! Sometimes you need to bite your tongue and be friends with people you don't like.

She is your only CURRENT door to medication. Well you can either take the 60mg temporarily that she is willing to prescribe, and shut up about upping the dose -- or you can go through withdrawal. I would personally rather take the smaller dose.

Now, once she takes you back as a patient you can use alternative methods to get the necessary dose:
a) You can take drug holidays to stock up on drugs/reduce tolerance and take the 100mg on days you absolutely need it.
b) You can get your hands on the LOWEST possible wellbutrin dose and that should allow your brain to soak up more adderall so 60mg very well could feel like 100mg. This is a great strategy many use to keep their doses low.
c) Ask her opinion on how you can deal with the low dose. Again, agree with her even though you don't want to and say "After thinking things through, I completely agree that it wouldn't be smart to go over 60mg... what alternative options do you have for me since 60mg isn't working 100% for me?"
... Many doctors have big egos and you need to stroke them sometimes to get what you want. She might add an additional drug, or make a compromise with you to maybe increase the dose to 80mg instead of 100. Who knows? But be willing to listen
d) Look for a new doctor while you are working with her. Take your time, be patient, and do the best you can with the resources you have!!! The only thing worse than having a retard doctor, is having no doctor at all!
You can go to a walk-in clinic, but don't expect to walk out with a prescription, get a referral for a new doctor though from them and ask them for their professional opinion about this other doctor who refuses to treat you all of a sudden leaving you in a state of withdrawal without even tapering you off the medication!

Worst case scenario:
e) If all else fails (unable to compromise, unable to find a new doctor while with her), take legal action. Phone the place that told you it is illegal for her to just stop treating you completely like that. Ask them what law they are referring to, write it down, research it on the internet, and actually phone a lawyer up!!! Have a lawyer right up a lawsuit threat, and put as much pressure as you can on her. And I agree with others, if you need to, phone the news station telling them your story and be emotional about it (this will drive your doctor crazy!) Leave messages daily, and use your creative ADHD energy to get the treatment you need!
Warning: This is a last case scenerio and should only be used if none of the other options worked. It won't be fun for anyone involved.

Hutch1ns
01-26-08, 06:51 PM
Walked into the Walk in clinic at 2:40pm EST, walked out at 2:57pm EST with a one month prescription. They took my blood pressure, 128 over 65 and that's after I've taken 100mg since I last slept (I woke up at 9pm last night after getting home at 11am yesterday from a 12 hour overnight shift at work.) I kind of freaked the nurse out when I told her dead on what my heart rate was. 96bpm was right on the money. I just know these things, it's weird. I never need a watch and always know exactly what time it is. I always know what my heart rate is, things of that nature...

lostwitness
01-26-08, 07:07 PM
Walked into the Walk in clinic at 2:40pm EST, walked out at 2:57pm EST with a one month prescription. They took my blood pressure, 128 over 65 and that's after I've taken 100mg since I last slept (I woke up at 9pm last night after getting home at 11am yesterday from a 12 hour overnight shift at work.) I kind of freaked the nurse out when I told her dead on what my heart rate was. 96bpm was right on the money. I just know these things, it's weird. I never need a watch and always know exactly what time it is. I always know what my heart rate is, things of that nature...

Oh cool, I'm kind of surprised they had no problem prescribing 100mg of Adderall in a walk-in clinic! That's great for you though! Are you able to go there monthly to get it refilled?

Plus I used to be like you... I always knew the exact time, without ever having a watch! I'd always be within 10 minutes of the time. I am also sometimes able to tell my brain when it wake up, and I'll wake up right on the minute! It's weird.

theta
01-26-08, 07:26 PM
NB She may only want to go above 60 mg for safety reasons, and I have to respect her for that.

If you develop high blood pressure or get a stroke, you will be mad that she DID give you high levels of drugs, despite the risks.

Young people *can* have heart attacks and strokes, eh?

Sometimes Doctors actually DO know what they are doing, in terms of drug prescribing safety!

(wellbutrin)The first pill I took sent me to the hospital with an abnormal heart beat/heart palpulations(sp?)

Yeah that maybe the case here.

Hutch1ns
01-26-08, 07:32 PM
My advice:

Phone her again, and respectfully and maturely ask if she will take you as a patient again. Tell her you will cooperate fully with her dosing and you two can come to some sort of compromise as long as you are on her good side. Tell her that you understand her reasoning, respect her opinion etc. Only say things that absolutely she can not take the wrong way to keep her respect! Write out a script if you need to! Sometimes you need to bite your tongue and be friends with people you don't like.

She is your only CURRENT door to medication. Well you can either take the 60mg temporarily that she is willing to prescribe, and shut up about upping the dose -- or you can go through withdrawal. I would personally rather take the smaller dose.

Now, once she takes you back as a patient you can use alternative methods to get the necessary dose:
a) You can take drug holidays to stock up on drugs/reduce tolerance and take the 100mg on days you absolutely need it.
b) You can get your hands on the LOWEST possible wellbutrin dose and that should allow your brain to soak up more adderall so 60mg very well could feel like 100mg. This is a great strategy many use to keep their doses low.
c) Ask her opinion on how you can deal with the low dose. Again, agree with her even though you don't want to and say "After thinking things through, I completely agree that it wouldn't be smart to go over 60mg... what alternative options do you have for me since 60mg isn't working 100% for me?"
... Many doctors have big egos and you need to stroke them sometimes to get what you want. She might add an additional drug, or make a compromise with you to maybe increase the dose to 80mg instead of 100. Who knows? But be willing to listen
d) Look for a new doctor while you are working with her. Take your time, be patient, and do the best you can with the resources you have!!! The only thing worse than having a retard doctor, is having no doctor at all!
You can go to a walk-in clinic, but don't expect to walk out with a prescription, get a referral for a new doctor though from them and ask them for their professional opinion about this other doctor who refuses to treat you all of a sudden leaving you in a state of withdrawal without even tapering you off the medication!

Worst case scenario:
e) If all else fails (unable to compromise, unable to find a new doctor while with her), take legal action. Phone the place that told you it is illegal for her to just stop treating you completely like that. Ask them what law they are referring to, write it down, research it on the internet, and actually phone a lawyer up!!! Have a lawyer right up a lawsuit threat, and put as much pressure as you can on her. And I agree with others, if you need to, phone the news station telling them your story and be emotional about it (this will drive your doctor crazy!) Leave messages daily, and use your creative ADHD energy to get the treatment you need!
Warning: This is a last case scenerio and should only be used if none of the other options worked. It won't be fun for anyone involved.

Couple of things

I don't take drug holidays and I know for a fact they do more harm than good for adults. The whole reason why they started drug holidays with stimulants was to let the kids (as there was no adult ADD back then) catch up in growth. I used to only take Adderall on school days when I was in high school and I always got really bad side effects from the medication. The side effects went away when I began taking it everyday and then was able to take multiple doses a day and not getting any of the side effects I got before.

Going over 60mg is not something new for me. When I was 18 I was prescribed 120MG a day (30mg 4x daily) for about a year and always took the medication as prescribed. That started after this very same Doctor who I'm dealing with now kicked me to the curb when I asked for a higher dosage than 60mg before. About 3 months before that happened she started me on Zoloft and I went manic until just before my 19th birthday when I was pulled off all of my meds cold turkey in the hospital. They tried giving me a bunch of haldol(sp?) and Ativan and it didn't phase me one bit. They ended up determining, however, that the Mania was a result of the Zoloft. They also stated that I showed 0 signs of being bi-polar which this rent-a-degree doctor labeled me as being. Although I had accepted it for awhile, I know now that I am not bi-polar and I was not depressed when the doctor pushed the Zoloft on me.

When I got out of the hospital, I started seeing this Doctor again because I couldn't find anyone else on short notice to treat me(I no longer had my car after getting out of the hospital so I couldn't go back to the Doctor who was prescribing me 120mg/daily as he was a good 45 minutes away.) I thought I would be OK on the 60mg a day as I wasn't on the Zoloft anymore but I quickly found out I was wrong. I have kept myself lower than the 120MG I was on before and I take much smaller doses but a little more frequent.

Hutch1ns
01-26-08, 07:36 PM
Oh cool, I'm kind of surprised they had no problem prescribing 100mg of Adderall in a walk-in clinic! That's great for you though! Are you able to go there monthly to get it refilled?

Plus I used to be like you... I always knew the exact time, without ever having a watch! I'd always be within 10 minutes of the time. I am also sometimes able to tell my brain when it wake up, and I'll wake up right on the minute! It's weird.

I can do that too, but only if there's something fun to do at the time I want to wake up! Otherwise, I don't wake up from anything, literally. I'm basically in a Coma when I sleep. Light doesn't wake me up, alarms don't wake me, but knowing the Bruins are playing at 7:05 wakes me up at 7:00! :confused:

Maxman
01-27-08, 01:43 AM
I thought this was a thread dealing with adderall as it relates to ADD/ADHD. Maybe your not giving us all the details of your problems, but based on your posts, it sounds like your doctor realized that you are hooked on adderall. If I had to guess, I bet she tried to get you to switch to another drug, or tried to get you help for stimulant addiction. I find it hard to believe that she just dumped you for no reason. The amount of adderall that you think you need is excessive. I realize that everybodys metabolism is different, but twice the recommended dose! I also noticed that you work shift work as I do. If you are taking add. to stay awake, you need to try providgil. I hope I'm wrong about your situation. I'm just basing my opinion on what you wrote- good luck.

lostwitness
01-27-08, 03:34 AM
I don't take drug holidays and I know for a fact they do more harm than good for adults.
I don't see how they could possibly do more harm than good. Please elaborate?

Hutch1ns
01-27-08, 03:44 AM
I thought this was a thread dealing with adderall as it relates to ADD/ADHD. Maybe your not giving us all the details of your problems, but based on your posts, it sounds like your doctor realized that you are hooked on adderall. If I had to guess, I bet she tried to get you to switch to another drug, or tried to get you help for stimulant addiction. I find it hard to believe that she just dumped you for no reason. The amount of adderall that you think you need is excessive. I realize that everybodys metabolism is different, but twice the recommended dose! I also noticed that you work shift work as I do. If you are taking add. to stay awake, you need to try providgil. I hope I'm wrong about your situation. I'm just basing my opinion on what you wrote- good luck.

Why is it excessive? Do you have proof that 100mg a day is excessive?

Can I eat, breathe and sleep without the Adderall? Yes. Do I choose to live my life suffering? No. I actually went a month without any Adderall after being released from the hospital and My Mom and I both felt that we should try putting me back on it as I wasn't able to concentrate on anything. After being fine on 30mg/day, we went to 60mg day and I started doing even better I went up to 90mg/day a couple weeks later thinking that I would be able to find a new doctor. Two years later at 21 years old I have two professional jobs making nearly a 6 figure income doing what I love. Would I be able to do that without the medication? No, I wouldn't.

"Doctor realized you're hooked on Adderall." Keyword: Hooked. If I had a heart murmur, and I couldn't be without my medication, would you label me as hooked on that medication? No, so why is this any different?

P.S Studies have been shown that doses of up to 500mg/day of Adderall can cause no harm in some people and doses of as low as 5mg/day can be lethal to others.

Hutch1ns
01-27-08, 03:49 AM
I don't see how they could possibly do more harm than good. Please elaborate?

Drug holidays were originally started for kids in order to allow them to grow as Adderall stunts your growth. There was no diagnosis of adult ADD/ADHD back then so overtime people have forgotten why they originally gave kids drug holidays so it carried over onto adults too. Adults don't grow so there is no need to take them. When you take a drug holiday, the next time you take the medication you are reintroducing the side effects that you get when you first started taking the medication.

Plus, at high doses, who wants to go through a day of bad withdrawals and endanger their lives and others for something that has no purpose!

blueyeyore
01-27-08, 12:16 PM
Being so defensive and outright abusive to another member of this forum just because they're expressing their opinion, to me just further concretes their belief. Some people who have replied have had some great advice/ideas for you, but you refuse to take them because it's not what you want. To me...that's hooked...you're unable to compromise about the amount/type of drugs in your system. You don't even want to try anything new. I agree with Maxman on this...there is more to the story here.

MonkeyGirl
01-27-08, 02:18 PM
That's being unfair. 60 mg is a very low dose. Someone needing more than that could just be from wanting more coverage of the day. Most docs still believe there is no need to take meds after work or school, or on the weekends.

I don't wish to have an opinion about this particular case, but the help ADHD meds can offer, and how difficult lives can be without, the "need" may be far different than addiction or abuse. Addiction is not the only thing to cause a person to seem desperate.

Come on now, most of you should be able to understand this... Why the attacking?

butterfly67
01-27-08, 03:31 PM
We should all be understanding as we are all in the same boat, figuratively speaking, not all in the same situation or on same amount of dosage. We are here to offer support of each other. And why is 5mg lethal? I am starting on 5mg xr twice a day. I am not expecting to have a bad reaction or anything and my heart is perfectly healthy and blood pressure is 90/60 usually. I would expect the higher the dose to be more toxic and lethal, but it all depend's on your body, as we are all built different. Let's play nice....please!!

gh342000
01-27-08, 03:49 PM
Wow!!

As I read through this thread, I read a mention of showing up unannounced at the PDoc, trying to force a prescription by being a problem, possible legal action, and other manipulations.

Then, there is a comment about missing doses in order to stock up so a larger dose can be taken when needed.

Then, there is abusive behavior against other peoples opinions in order to justify a specific dose and treatment.

At the end of this thread it feels like drug seeking behaviour. This is exactly what health care professionals are on the look out for. This is the *exact* behavior that makes it tough for adults to get stimulant medications for their ADD.

My advice, for what it is worth:

1. Find a new doctor. That doctor has told you they don't want to treat you. If you keep coming back you are no different than a stalker. There are many PDocs with restraining orders against patients. This is where you will end up. Worse, when you find the new doctor, chances are they might know each other. If you are a problem for one, the other doctors will think you will be a problem for them.

2. Find a doctor or medical group that deals with ADD exclusively. There are many. This is the best way to get treated if you are outside the bounds of the dosing in the medical literature.

3. Be nice to the people on this board. We are all in the same boat, we are all aggravated from time to time, and yes many of us do understand what you are going through, but go easy in your posts you will get a lot further.

Just my 2 cents.

scottm
01-27-08, 04:18 PM
While I've only been taking medication for a couple of months, if my doc said he was not going to prescribe my medication any further, it wouldn't phase me one bit. I wouldn't have a problem holding out a month or three until a new doctor was found.

Granted, you seem to have been on this stuff for a long time and only you know how it makes you feel (both on and off the medication).

Everyone is different.

Andrew
01-27-08, 04:26 PM
Thanks to all that continue to contribute constructive commentary to this thread.

Abusive language and disrespecting other members of the forums will not be tolerated. Warnings, account suspension or banning will be handed out to those members that ignore these guidelines.

adhdogwalker
01-27-08, 06:13 PM
Thanks, Andrew for stepping in. I don't like to see people be judgemental of others. IMHO, we are all unique here and what works for one person might not for another.

Anyhow, I will add in my viewpoint. I am also prescribed 100 mg. of Adderall a day. While I do not always take that amount, I sometimes do. I, too, would be upset if my psychiatrist refused to prescribe me that amount. My previous psychiatrist would only prescribe me 40 mg. a day and kept trying to make me take Strattera even though I had a horrendous reaction to it and at a tiny 20 mg. dose had vicious rage attacks that would have landed me in jail or the insane asylum had I not had the sense to stop taking it and find a new psychiatrist.

That said, I know that there is an exact amount of Adderall I need to take in order for it to be effective- 30 mg. Any less, and I can't tell I've taken it at all. I am very hyperactive and restless and get a horrible creeping, crawling sensation in my limbs at times. I can't stop moving and the feeling is unbearable because I can't escape no matter what I do. If I take 30 mg. of Adderall the feeling disappears and I am actually capable of sitting still like other "normal" human beings. I am bipolar as well so this agitation is probably more associated with that than with my ADHD; however, I can completely understand Hutchins point. Why live in misery if you don't have to? Sure, we all suffer from ADHD on this message board; however, we all have varying levels of symptoms of it. Some people might be able to live with their ADDness unmedicated and not be bothered while another might be in hell as a result of it.

I take Seroquel in addition to the adderall and I would have the exact same reaction as Hutchins if my dr. wouldn't prescribe it to me. I would lose my mind, literally, without it. For the first time in my life, I do not have a headache of one degree or another 24 hrs./day. I am also much calmer-- I still have restless attacks that the adderall doesn't completely eliminate, but I can up the Seroquel to address that if I need to. If I try to decrease it too drastically (dr. has tried replacing it with other meds a few times with disasterous results), I get a crashing, miserable, headache and feel like crap. No, Seroquel is not a controlled substance like adderall is, but I can definitely say that I go through withdrawal from it if I run out, stop taking it, or decrease the dose too dramatically. I'm sure that lots of people could just stop taking it and be completely fine; unfortunately, I'm not one of them.

Sorry, the point of this whole ramble-- psychotropic meds all affect people differently and some people can take a medicine and not grow physically dependent upon it while others can't. Not to preach, but there's just no point in trying to decide if someone is addicted to adderall or not by analyzing their post. Who cares? If any of us here were so against taking adderall, then we sure wouldn't bother to read this forum.

and p.s. A low frustration tolerance can be part of ADHD. I sure do suffer from it and I sure can rant when things aren't going my way.

theta
01-27-08, 06:35 PM
and p.s. A low frustration tolerance can be part of ADHD. I sure do suffer from it and I sure can rant when things aren't going my way.

I've seen on other Internet forums they have a sub-forum devoted to people in difficult situations who just need a place to rant. Where people just offer moral
support. This site has so marginalized the various populations into sub-forums that other than a few mega-posters that may know each other well the word community has no meaning here.

Scattered
01-27-08, 06:55 PM
I thought this was a thread dealing with adderall as it relates to ADD/ADHD. Maybe your not giving us all the details of your problems, but based on your posts, it sounds like your doctor realized that you are hooked on adderall. If I had to guess, I bet she tried to get you to switch to another drug, or tried to get you help for stimulant addiction. I find it hard to believe that she just dumped you for no reason. The amount of adderall that you think you need is excessive. I realize that everybodys metabolism is different, but twice the recommended dose! I also noticed that you work shift work as I do. If you are taking add. to stay awake, you need to try providgil. I hope I'm wrong about your situation. I'm just basing my opinion on what you wrote- good luck.Welcome to the forums Maxman -- well stated concerns which mirror my own.

Scattered
01-27-08, 07:00 PM
We should all be understanding as we are all in the same boat, figuratively speaking, not all in the same situation or on same amount of dosage. We are here to offer support of each other. And why is 5mg lethal? I am starting on 5mg xr twice a day. I am not expecting to have a bad reaction or anything and my heart is perfectly healthy and blood pressure is 90/60 usually. I would expect the higher the dose to be more toxic and lethal, but it all depend's on your body, as we are all built different. Let's play nice....please!!For the overhwhelming majority of people 5 mg is perfectly safe -- there have be a few cases of problems -- whether they were caused by the medication or were going to happen anyway is hard to know for sure. Some people are hypersensitive to medication -- Hallowell and Ratey discuss that in one of their books -- these people are usually very sensitive to all medications, including over the counter types.

flatlinez
01-27-08, 07:22 PM
Just to clarify, when I said to show up at the office I didn't mean for him to 'cause a scene or anything like that. Simply calling on the phone makes it very easy for people to give you the run-around or to outright refuse to help you. When you show up in person then it's a different situation altogether -- people are much more willing to help you because they can't just hang up on you or whatever, they see that you are a real person who needs them to do their job and they do it. When I started college I spent days on the phone trying to get my financial aid package processed, but it wasn't until I showed up that I got to sit down with someone and watch them do it in a minute. What a difference!

flatlinez
01-27-08, 07:30 PM
Also, maybe I am at the far spectrum of opinions here, but I feel that if there is no health issue, then the only problem with addiction is not being able to get the substance!

lostwitness
01-27-08, 11:24 PM
Also, maybe I am at the far spectrum of opinions here, but I feel that if there is no health issue, then the only problem with addiction is not being able to get the substance!

Plus I don't really like people sticking the big "ADDICTED" label on people immediately at the first sign of an addictive behavior. Addiction is a DISEASE. Addiction ALWAYS does more harm than good!

Addiction:
A term referring to compulsive drug use, psychological dependence, and continuing use despite harm. Addiction is frequently and incorrectly equated with physical dependence and withdrawal.

You have a doctor prescribing 60 mg of Adderall, who refuses to go over that dosage despite the patients symptoms not improving from that dose. If the patient still feels the urge to take more, and actually tries to follow through with it, that does not mean the patient is addicted for heavens sake!

The person clearly isn't suffering physically or psychologically from "TOO MUCH" medication. Quite the opposite actually. The person is able to function normally from what you guys consider 'too much'.

It's like labeling a person with diabetes a drug seeker for trying to get their hands on some insulin in any possible way if their doctor refused to prescribe it! Just because this is a psychological disorder, does not make it any less cruel!

It's doctors who yell "ABUSE!" "ADDICTION!" at the first shallow sign displayed by the patient, then refuse to prescribe medication which leads to ACTUAL abuse! The patient proceeds to self-medicate with whatever he can get his hands on -- whether it be cocaine, marijuana, meth. The patient has a disorder that prevents him from functioning, and being unable to function the patient will try anything.

This all could have been solved if the doctor was patient and understanding with the person and increased the dose to one that actually helped them. Or at least help them find alternative combinations.

It's situations like these that really make me sad. I couldn't imagine needing a high dose of adderall and trying to get it in this day and age without being called an addict. Truly sad and pathetic this is.

Hutch1ns
01-27-08, 11:35 PM
I apologize for going off so badly, I hadn't slept in 30 hours and when I don't sleep I get extremely irritable. There's a big difference between making an educated opinion and accusing someone of being an 'addict.'

The only problems I have with the dosage is actually getting the medication. I suffer no adverse side effects from the medication and it only helps me. I keep the same med schedule daily and I don't like to change it on a daily basis. I use the medication to get through the day, not just to do one specific activity like school or work. What if I said that I think that people who take it just for school or just for work are actually abusing the medication. Think about it. We all know that college kids will buy some Adderall and take it for a big exam or to study without a Doctor's prescription. They're abusing the medication according to the general public. If they're abusing the medication, then everyone who does have a script and only takes it to do one specific activity are also abusing it.

Also, when I ran out of medication a long time ago, My parents came over and we called the ER to ask how bad the withdrawals would be from going from 60mg for 9 months to having none. A psychiatrist called us back and told us that 60mg is a very, very mild dosage and that I should be fine. I asked him about 120mg and he said that coming off cold turkey on that dosage would likely require ativan for a week or even short-term hospitalization. He said that 120mg is towards the higher end of the typical dosage but he's seen a lot higher doses prescribed and work effectively.

Hutch1ns
01-27-08, 11:41 PM
Plus I don't really like people sticking the big "ADDICTED" label on people immediately at the first sign of an addictive behavior. Addiction is a DISEASE. Addiction ALWAYS does more harm than good!

Addiction:


You have a doctor prescribing 60 mg of Adderall, who refuses to go over that dosage despite the patients symptoms not improving from that dose. If the patient still feels the urge to take more, and actually tries to follow through with it, that does not mean the patient is addicted for heavens sake!

The person clearly isn't suffering physically or psychologically from "TOO MUCH" medication. Quite the opposite actually. The person is able to function normally from what you guys consider 'too much'.

It's like labeling a person with diabetes a drug seeker for trying to get their hands on some insulin in any possible way if their doctor refused to prescribe it! Just because this is a psychological disorder, does not make it any less cruel!

It's doctors who yell "ABUSE!" "ADDICTION!" at the first shallow sign displayed by the patient, then refuse to prescribe medication which leads to ACTUAL abuse! The patient proceeds to self-medicate with whatever he can get his hands on -- whether it be cocaine, marijuana, meth. The patient has a disorder that prevents him from functioning, and being unable to function the patient will try anything.

This all could have been solved if the doctor was patient and understanding with the person and increased the dose to one that actually helped them. Or at least help them find alternative combinations.

It's situations like these that really make me sad. I couldn't imagine needing a high dose of adderall and trying to get it in this day and age without being called an addict. Truly sad and pathetic this is.




Thank you, I couldn't have said it any better myself. That's exactly how I feel about it.

The Doctor's exact words were something like this, "I'm sorry but I'm unable to treat you any further, I suggest you find someone who specializes in ADHD and maybe they can prescribe you the dosage that you need."

Imnapl
01-27-08, 11:51 PM
I hadn't slept in 30 hoursIs this job related?

Hutch1ns
01-28-08, 08:12 AM
Is this job related?

Pretty much. I didn't get out of work until about 5am saturday. I had woke up at about 730pm friday night, started work at 9pm so I figured I'd just stay up all day saturday and go to bed at a halfway normal time. I had to try going to the walk in clinic because I was just about out of medication. The walk-in clinic was only open 10-3pm saturday and there was no way I was going to be up in time if I went to bed right after getting home from work. I have a lot of trouble waking up (alarm next to my ear usually doesn't work.) Plus, I wasn't tired at 5am when I got home...

I have no trouble sleeping from the Adderall if that's what you're asking. I take 50mg of Serequel and 50mg of Trazadone and I'm asleep within a minute of my head hitting the pillow.

The biggest thing I hate about being called an addict is that no matter how you react to the accusation you're guilty. If you get angry in your reaction your automatically considered in 'denial.' I tend to always look like I'm making a big reaction to anything that I have the littlest bit of care about with my facial expressions and my deep voice.

People close to me ask me why I'm so passionate about the Adderall and why I make such a big deal about it. I usually don't know what to tell them but now I realize that it's because it's something that has helped me so much.

Imnapl
01-28-08, 10:30 AM
The biggest thing I hate about being called an addict is that no matter how you react to the accusation you're guilty. If you get angry in your reaction your automatically considered in 'denial.' I tend to always look like I'm making a big reaction to anything that I have the littlest bit of care about with my facial expressions and my deep voice.

People close to me ask me why I'm so passionate about the Adderall and why I make such a big deal about it. I usually don't know what to tell them but now I realize that it's because it's something that has helped me so much.Shift work would kill me. I tried it once many moons ago and almost lost a job because of it.

Re: being accused of being an addict: because the communication on a forum is limited, we're left with what we read. Perhaps it is the language you are using to describe your situation with your meds. The media makes sure we all know about the signs of addiction so most people know what it looks like. Are you familiar with the standard signs of addiction?

Hutch1ns
01-28-08, 11:27 AM
Shift work would kill me. I tried it once many moons ago and almost lost a job because of it.

Re: being accused of being an addict: because the communication on a forum is limited, we're left with what we read. Perhaps it is the language you are using to describe your situation with your meds. The media makes sure we all know about the signs of addiction so most people know what it looks like. Are you familiar with the standard signs of addiction?



Trust me, I know the signs of addiction and drug seeking behavior. I can see how some people may see some signs of both of those behaviors but I can assure you that it's not the case.

Matt S.
01-28-08, 01:19 PM
Trust me, I know the signs of addiction and drug seeking behavior. I can see how some people may see some signs of both of those behaviors but I can assure you that it's not the case.


It doesn't necessarily give them the right to make a medical diagnosis of addiction, they aren't doctors.

With that being said, my dosage of dexedrine has been a maximum of 150 mg sometimes, I am at 130 mg right now but I have been taking it since I was a child and I am extremely hyperactive, plus I was abused as a child and one of the forms of abuse was that my mother overmedicated me.

Addiction, well, er, umm, let's see, I was addicted to benzodiazepines and I was working three doctors for prescriptions and buying at least 8 prescriptions from different people, anxiety, back pain, insomnia, you name it I worked it and I faked it too.

I actually have ADHD so it is not the same.

Desperate1
01-28-08, 01:55 PM
Hi, Sorry I'm just getting to read this thread and hopping on the tail end of the discussion, but I found this discussion very interesting.
When I first went on adderall i was very afraid of being stigmatized, even by my pharmacist, and I felt like every move I made might be construed as being driven by a need for my meds. I've since found that's my own paranoia and is not always so, but I still find myself being somtimes almost monitoring my behavior so that people who don't know me that well (doctors, etc) won't make their own incorrect assessments of anything I do or say.
I have a doctor who is like many, completely uncomfortable with prescribing stimulant drugs. It's funny how the meds have been around forever and so many doctors are so uncomfortable with prescribing them. I posted over the summer about the troubles with my doc, how he was giving me no insight on how I was responding to the drugs and the various dosages, and how he got mad at me when I told him I was not getting any feeling of being energized from adderall. (A doctor who is comfortable with prescribing the drug would have more likely discussed with me why that might be happening. My doc is prescribing it only because my primary care physician suggested it but then said she felt more comfortable having a psychopharmacologist do the actual prescribing.)
Anyway, my point is I don't know how adderall affects you or anyone else. I had to remind myself to stop and remember that just because 100mg of it would probably send my heart beating literally to the moon doesn't mean it would do that for everyone. So is 100mg a huge dose? For me, hell yes. For someone else, who knows.
What I initially thought you might have sounded like--i don't know what to call it, but it sounded like making excuses for needing 100mg, but then I realized I was not putting myself in your shoes. It was the fact that your doctor sounds barely qualified to practice and you can't find any other doctor to see, but I question how there could be so few doctors to choose from, and I hope this is coming across as helpful advice: I live in the same state and have the same insurance coverage you mentioned, though I don't know what plan you have with them. There are a huge number of doctors covered by my plan that I could see to deal with my ADHD and prescribe meds. If you have a doctor who is not comfortable prescribing over 60mg of adderall to anyone regardless of the situation, it sounds like he/she is not informed enough to be dealing with ADHD patients. He/she should be able to discuss with you not only dosing options but even the possibility of trying other meds that might help, or combining meds, etc. If the doctor is afraid of the drug, they're not going to help you.
I would suggest calling your insurance company directly. Tell them that you are diagnosed with ADHD and that you need help finding a doctor in your area who is covered by your plan who can help you. You may have to try a few, but there have to be more than just three or four. I called for help after the incident with my doctor over the summer and the person who answered was super helpful and there was a long list of other doctors I could have tried. (I ended up staying with my doctor after I went back to him and had a very awkward yet helpful conversation where I stated that I needed his guidance and was just trying to help myself.) Anyway, give that a shot, and maybe you can start fresh with a doctor who actually has some clue about what it's like to live with ADHD and is comfortable with prescribing the kind of medications that are needed to help you.
Hope this helps, good luck!

blueroo
01-28-08, 09:47 PM
I just want to recap what has been conveyed here. I'm hearing:

"I use this medication to get through the day"
"I must have this medication to maintain my two full time jobs"
"I will suffer abnormal withdrawal symptoms if I don't get this medication"
"I almost harmed a doctor in my frustration to get more medicine"
"I will do anything to get this medication, even if it is unlawful"

I'm also hearing rationalization. "Well, anyone who takes a drug for a purpose must be an addict".

This is not normal behavior. It certainly isn't normal behavior for someone with ADHD on a therapeutic dosage. You'll have to forgive people if they assume there is addiction involved; it looks an awful lot like it.

I don't mean to paint you in a bad light here, but I've seen these behaviors in street meth users. These are not abnormal behaviors for such a person. They need their drugs just to get through the day. Many of them depend on their drugs to maintain a hyper-active lifestyle, such as working at two or more full time jobs. They get angry and violent when they can no longer access their drugs. They suffer depression, insomnia, mental and physical pain, irritability, psychotic reactions, and anxiety during withdrawal. They insist that there is no problem as long as they can continue their drug usage.

This sounds more like dependancy than addiction to me, but nobody here on the board can make that determination. We aren't doctors, and we haven't met you as a patient.

That said, everything you've said here leads me to believe that there is some serious issue with dependance or addiction here, and I would strongly suggest you find another doctor to consider your dependance and/or addiction, rather than seeking a doctor who will give you access to more drugs. If you can not maintain a relatively normal and non-violent life without your adderall then you have a serious problem.

lostwitness
01-28-08, 10:28 PM
If you can not maintain a relatively normal and non-violent life without your adderall then you have a serious problem.

And that problem is called AD/HD!

:)

blueroo
01-28-08, 11:04 PM
And that problem is called AD/HD!

:)

Craving adderall, suffering withdrawal without it, and being violent are not symptoms of ADHD!

lostwitness
01-29-08, 01:14 AM
Craving adderall, suffering withdrawal without it, and being violent are not symptoms of ADHD!
You're right.

They are symptoms of taking an ADHD'rs meds away!

I'm not gonna sit around and act like it is weird that when someone who requires medication to function normally, functions abnormally when their meds are taken away. An ADHD'er who has been heavily medicated, and who all of a sudden has their medication taken away is more prone to violence.

ADHD medication causes physical dependence whether you are taking it therapeutically or not. Withdrawal and cravings are normal for anyone. And violence is especially common in the impulsive ADHD crowd.

Only an insane doctor like the OP's would cut their patient off cold turkey from 100mg of Adderall rather than tapering them off and finding a replacement doctor for them.

Imnapl
01-29-08, 01:17 AM
ADHD medication causes physical dependence whether you are taking it therapeutically or not. Withdrawal and cravings are normal for anyone. And violence is especially common in the impulsive ADHD crowd.Please share the reputable source of this information.

lostwitness
01-29-08, 01:24 AM
Please share the reputable source of this information.

I can paste thousands of links from just searching "Adderall withdrawal" "Adderall Physical Dependance" etc. on google. If you really want me to I can search through them and post some reputable sources. I would think that it would be pretty obvious that taking 100mg of Adderall a day over a long period of time will cause withdrawal for practically anyone if stopped cold turkey...

blueroo
01-29-08, 01:24 AM
I too would like a medical source that claims it is normal for people with ADHD to become violent and suffer severe withdrawal symptoms.

I've stopped taking both adderall and ritalin. I never became violent. I've never known another person with ADHD who experienced that either. If that were the case, I would be very frightened. But it is not the case. I'm calling bull on this one.

I would also like to point out that the OP was taking 100mg against the advice of his or her doctor.

ozchris
01-29-08, 01:52 AM
You took more than she prescribed. I would have kicked you out/not seen you anymore if I was her. These drugs are monitored closely as you probably know...risking her license for someone taking over the prescribed amount would be stupid. If she doesn't want to prescribe you 100mg fair enough..lots of cancer patients can't get enough opiates to make them comfortable/help the pain and IMO they're more deserving of those extra meds than you..or anyone with ADD for that matter.

Just give up and find someone else. 2 hours isn't that far away, many people have had a much harder time getting meds than that..including me.

Maybe you should cut back on work or find another job that is more ADD friendly?


Drug holidays are very useful to me...and they definitely do more GOOD than harm. I choose to not take my meds on the weekend because I don't need them then, it also helps keep my tolerance under control and keeps the medication working more efficiently than if I was taking it every single day.

Matt S.
01-29-08, 01:55 AM
I take a lot of Dexedrine and I don't have withdrawals I just get wound up and hyper and never get too much done.

lostwitness
01-29-08, 01:57 AM
severe withdrawal symptoms

Now now, let's not exaggerate here.


I would also like to point out that the OP was taking 100mg against the advice of his or her doctor.

The OP was being prescribed 120mg BEFORE seeing his current doctor. When he began seeing his new doctor she was uncomfortable with prescribing more than 60mg! I am not making guesses here, that is what he said earlier.

It's like being prescribed high doses of vicodin for pain, then all of a sudden having the dose being cut in half without any tapering by an idiot doctor! That would be painful!!!!
Although Adderall causes less physical dependence, it is still similarly cruel.

I never became violent. I've never known another person with ADHD who experienced that either. If that were the case, I would be very frightened.
You're speaking as if the guy went nuts and snapped ten peoples necks in half.

Let's go back to the original and only violent comment the guy made:
It was a good thing he didn't try grabbing my arm because the last person to do that ended up with a broken nose.
Hmm.. so he didn't end up becoming violent. Though the second part of that sentence certainly could be taken out of context if you ignored what it said right after that:
6 different skin graphs, 3 from under each arm that were taken from my 6 major ear surgeries and if you grab my upper arm it hurts really bad.

No serious withdrawal, no violence, no serious cravings, and you guys are attacking this person for being a potential addict? How can I not defend them.

And yes, ADHD'ers are more prone to violence. Not directly, but comorbid disorders such as ODD are very common.

Since you guys like sources...
. The results of our study suggest that variations of the DRD3 gene are likely involved in the regulation of impulsivity and some psychopathological aspects of ADHD related to violent behavior.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12721816?ordinalpos=19&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

conduct-disordered symptoms were predicted mostly by impulsivity, with minor contributions from sensation seeking and ADHD symptoms.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11785608?ordinalpos=24&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

According to the literature, 30-50% of children with ADHD will still suffer from symptoms when they reach adulthood. The syndrome is a risk factor for various psychiatric disorders, drug and alcohol abuse, and criminality. There is some evidence that even adult patients may benefit from stimulant medication. ADHD was diagnosed and stimulant medication was started in five adult men who had been imprisoned for serious crimes of violence. The response to treatment was good in all of them. After 4-6 years two had been successfully rehabilitated.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8766640?ordinalpos=36&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

I hate debating. Lets just say we disagree. You think he shows clear signs of an addiction, and I don't. Neither of us will truly ever know. I'm not gonna reply back and forward like this anymore. So unproductive.

flatlinez
01-29-08, 02:07 AM
Imagine that you are a completely normal person, and all of the sudden someone comes over, wrestles you to the ground, and "gives" you a very bad case of ADHD. You would have a very hard time "getting through the day," or meeting your responsibilities to "two full time jobs". Being so forcefully handled gives you physical injuries which result in your having to stay at home and suffer for days until you recover. You might even wish to fight back at the person who did this to you. Faced with such prospects, it doesn't much matter whether a licensed doctor or some witch-doctor gives you the cure.

Granted, he precipitated this situation by taking and admitting to taking more than his prescribed dosage. However, it is possible that "to some extent, optimal dosage and long-term drug-regimen of choice can be discovered only by (cautious) empirical self-investigation... For many people prefer to cast themselves in the role of autonomous healthcare consumers rather than as disempowered "patients" - a status that can lower the spirits of even the most psychologically robust." [ excerpted from "the good drug guide" ].

"I use this medication to get through the day"
"I must have this medication to maintain my two full time jobs"
"I will suffer abnormal withdrawal symptoms if I don't get this medication"
"I almost harmed a doctor in my frustration to get more medicine"
"I will do anything to get this medication, even if it is unlawful"

ozchris
01-29-08, 02:10 AM
It's like being prescribed high doses of vicodin for pain, then all of a sudden having the dose being cut in half without any tapering by an idiot doctor! That would be painful!!!!
Although Adderall causes less physical dependence, it is still similarly cruel.


Yeah, it's nothing like that really. Opiate withdrawal is at least 500 times worse.

Maybe the OP didn't handle the situation very well? from reading the posts in this thread the doctor might have thought he/she was a drug addict (even if that isn't true)

No one here can say if you're addicted or not. It could be the case you just need a larger dose than average as mentioned above. Amphetamines do cause withdrawal effects with some people.. even if they are very mild. Irritability and anger is a pretty common withdrawal effect IMO.

You won't die. Just find another doctor and forget about it.


Also: Some people with ADHD are violent, angry people. It could just be their personality + taking away meds that allow them to function that caused that.

livinginchaos
01-29-08, 02:25 AM
This thread is closed due to being under review.