View Full Version : 504/the one thing he needs he can't get!!!


FrazzleDazzle
02-04-08, 08:50 PM
Of all the things, his school will not allow him any accomodations to get his assignments! This is the only thing he really needs, and all I get from his counselor is that "this is the age when kids need to start becoming responsible and getting themselves off of accommodations" and "we cannot ask any of our teachers to provide him with his assigments."

What do you guys think? What do you do? His backpack still produces an important longpast due floatie, he doesn't seem able to write them down in his calender, and he's having a tough time with his grades. The motivational factors I put on place have not helped. (Playstation time).

livinginchaos
02-11-08, 10:40 PM
hey Frazzle!

I'm sorry you have yet to receive a response :(

I'm about to give you my honest opinion - -here's a forewarning.

While I get your frustration, he still needs to learn coping skills on how to deal with homework, because when/if he (decides to) goes to college he's going to need those skills. Much better/easier to learn them sooner than later.

how much do you help him remember homework?

What are other rewards you can do w/ him to help the motivation?

Mary
02-12-08, 12:09 AM
Hey Frazzle... we worked with teachers to make sure work was done at school. Each child had a folder with assignments and when the work was done in class, the teacher put it in the next teachers mailbox. How old is your son? What is the schools excuse for not helping him? Is it lack of money or what?
Have you researched www.wrightslaw.com ? Sorry, I did not see this before.

Some schools that don't offer special education classes have to bus kids to other school districts to get help they need. Find an advocate ...Tara from here in the forums is good at this kind of thing. I'll check back often to find your response or feel free to pm me.

~boots~
02-12-08, 12:32 AM
I think it's time he started to take more responsibility too..it'll be good if you can gently push him along

livinginchaos
02-12-08, 12:34 AM
ahh . . ditto to Mary's post.

But, I suggest trying to find other things that are motivating for him - because he has to learn how to take care of it. The other thing is to make sure that the reward and the chart that is used is consistently used and is in a place that he'll see it everyday as a reminder (for instance, when he walks in the door from school) - his locker would also be good, and he has to bring it home everyday (writing on it, of course, the assignments)>

He's 15, right? I assume it's your son in your signature . . .

if he's younger, than he has plenty of time to learn coping skills for accountability of homework. :) if he is 15 or older, he could at least start being held accountable for his homework, because college comes up awfully fast.

Sorry I didn't elaborate more in my first post

UnitCircle
02-12-08, 01:16 AM
based on objectively observed/collected scientific data - any extrinsic reward related to learning ensures that as soon as the extrinsic reward is taken away all learning stops and it also kills any intrinsic desire that was present to begin with. there's been a lot of research on intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation and the key is to instill an intrinsic motivation to learn. kids who get paid for grades see learning as a job to money, playstation time, etc... then they find any way that they can to get the work done as quickly as possible and nothing is learned. i'd point you to the research but any direction will get you there. there's been a lot of study on this and the human animal works best, hardest, when they have an internal desire (intrinsic). when you give a reward you make the learning a barrier to the desired outcome. that's why we have college students who don't learn and find anyway to get a C or better. that's where the "piece of paper for a job" mentality comes from. it's my subjective opinion based on a massive amount of scientific research concerning the human animal.

while i may not agree with doing this; your school, if it accepts fed or state funding, has absolutely no choice and MUST make accommodation's for a medically diagnosed ADD/ADHD or other learning disability. if it's a private school, though, then I'm not sure.

I'm with the rest. actions teach our kids life skills and any action that short circuits the schools image of authority sets a bad precedence. i was coddled as a kid and had problems as a result later on until the military fixed me up good. nothing dealing with ADD (didn't get diag'ed until late 20's), but my parents defended me tooth and nail when i came up against a teacher; and that was often. my family didn't believe in ADD/HD and so we never looked into it. i'm thankful that they loved and supported me, of course, but i grew up knowing that i could sick mom & pop on'em and that all would be ok for me.

i'd check your counselor's credentials if that's their solution. letting a child develop frustrations related to learning and education is also not the answer. at 15 there may be paradigms to undo in how he currently looks at learning.

if it were my son, i'd take him to museum's, planetariums, tours of local businesses, etc... expose him to knowledge on as many levels as you can. important that it's as a family outing and not related at all with the school; don't even mention school during the trip and let the motivation plant itself in him. you just have to find what he'd be interested in. if it's video games then find a way to expose him to everything that goes into it. also, if it weren't for playstation i'd have conquered the world by now. i don't know how to do it, but if you can find a way get rid of the "digitalcrackstation" i'd do it. if not that route, there are entertaining games that teach through gameplay.

not all kids fit in the nice little box that public education provides and some faculty are so busy that they try to jam a square peg into the round hole and then say, "next".

FrazzleDazzle
02-12-08, 07:44 PM
Thanks so much for the replys! I appreciate every one, but it is still so very confusing. Yes, he is 15. I COULD call the teachers and find out what his assignments are and the tests coming up are, but he sits right in front of the board in every class and they all tell me the info is right there, so, on further prodding, it's up to him to get the work, the teachers are really trying to make it easy for these guys. I won't put myself out if he won't make an effort. He still stuffs things into his backpack and "thinks" he's got it all and refuses to check further. Later, when we see the assignment on PowerSchools, he finds the 1/2 sheet of paper. Ug.

As for the Playstation, it is not available for him to play right now. If he is not making great choices in school and is behind, then I cannot and will not justify hours of playing on there, so thank you Circle, for emphasising that. I have tried allowing him to earn time on it, amongst other methods, but nothing seems to motivate him. When I went to school, a good grade was motivation enough. Now, it's just probably not cool to look studious or something.

Right now, all I do is print him out a list of his missing assignments from the school website, and his teachers are being very gracious and allowing him to catch up, plus he's missed a lot of days due to illness this semester already. Some get done, some he lies about, some he just doesn't want to bother with. Teen boy stuf????

wifeandmom
02-12-08, 09:17 PM
Frazzle, I have this T-shirt. DD is a 16 yr old junior. She spent the first two and a half years of high school drifting aimlessly. Same problems with getting assignments, follow through, lying about what was done, the teacher ate her hw, etc. We had medication issues, which I've thrashed thoroughly already. Switched to Adderall XR 20 mg am and 10 mg IR around 3:00 p.m. in October and her mood improved IMMEDIATELY. However, still plenty of problems with getting work done. She even failed Art the last grading period of the Fall semester because she wouldn't turn in her work. FAILED ART FOR GOSH SAKES! :faint:

All this time, I've been wrestling with the school The only thing they've ever agreed to do was respond to weekly emails from me asking what assignments were past due. Not a lot of help, but some. We took her report card to PDoc in January and he looked at the grades - A's through C's for the semester and A's and B's for the 6-week grading period in everything except Algebra (F) and Art (F). He said that anyone who failed Art was just being rebellious and the best thing we could do was to just let her paddle her own canoe. I haven't sent an email to a teacher since.

Progress reports come out this week, so we 'll see how this is working. I did stop doing laundry when she stopped turning in homework and THAT got her attention. At the January PDoc visit, he upped her dose to 40 mg XR am and 10 IR pm. That seems to have given her more energy/motivation/whatever to actually DO her work.

So, after all that, here's my advice:

Take a big deep breath, and just accept the fact that your son is going to fail something this year. (It was Algebra for us last year, and DD managed to pull a 79 average for the first semester on her second go) Then sit your son down and tell him that he's going to have to figure out how to get his work himself. Suggest he get at least one phone number for each class so he can call someone when he doesn't get the assignment. Tell him that you won't be able to help him in college, so he has to learn how to do this for himself. Tell him you'll help him figure stuff out, buy folders or poster board (with proper advance notice), etc. but you won't be able to track down his work for him.

In our case, I think the change in meds made a HUGE difference. But, DD also seemed to "wake up" to the realization that her friends were talking about going to visit campuses, taking the SAT, etc. and she could be doing the same thing IF she would get her act together. Yes, she still forgets assignments, but at least now she's figured out that she needs to do them. Last year she didn't get that. Some was immaturity and some was no doubt rebellion. The two together = typical teen multiplied by ADHD.

Imnapl
02-12-08, 09:25 PM
the teacher ate her hwGood one! :D

mrs A
02-29-08, 05:08 PM
Suggest he get at least one phone number for each class so he can call someone when he doesn't get the assignment. Tell him that you won't be able to help him in college, so he has to learn how to do this for himself. Tell him you'll help him figure stuff out, buy folders or poster board (with proper advance notice), etc. but you won't be able to track down his work for him.

Yes this was suggested by my sons teacher. One of his GOOD teachers.

I have some issues as well with the homework. I spoke to my sons' grade counsellor and she suggested that he could come past her office after school daily to show her his agenda(which he would then need to write in!). She said this can help "remind" him of each class and any homework.

I did not want to go this route yet as I am still "using" this as a last resort. I too, feel that he needs to find a way that he will learn to remember to write it down, then read it and bring home the work on his own but at the same time, I need to remember that he really is about 3-4 yrs behind in maturity, which puts him at 9-10. I don't want to make excuses for him, but he does have a handicap.

You know your own son and what level he is at compared to his peers. Is he as mature as his peers? If not, then unfortunately, if your school or counsellor won't help, then, us moms are all they've got to help them, as frustrating as that is.

I also agree in not allowing the playstation etc if the assignments are not done on time.

I am feeling for you.......

FrazzleDazzle
02-29-08, 11:28 PM
He seems to wane with motivation to keep track of stuff, so I have resolved to not care more than he does at this point. Thinking L&L, I have to let it go as he is not wanting to be in charge just yet, and let the peices fall where they may for him. I know he will find his own way when he finds the need to. He truly is capable of keeping track of his assignments now, I fully trust, and cannot justify asking the school for any more. Most of his teachers are being very accommodating and allowing him to turn in his late work for full credit; for now. I wish they would not do that, the real world does not work that way, but the school system needs kids to pass, so they do it. Ugh.

We had probably a typical conversation last evening, where he said he got more motivation from his track coack about the importance of grades in one's future than he ever had from me his *entire* life. I just grinned and said isn't it wonderful you have such a great coach! Point being, my time with him is fini, exemplified when when afterwards I asked him, so what, if anything, would you want from me then? He said.......ennnnnn, oooooohhhh, tea, acchhhh, eye, ennnnn, geeeee..........(nothing) LOL! So be it then!

mrs A
03-03-08, 04:45 PM
He seems to wane with motivation to keep track of stuff, so I have resolved to not care more than he does at this point. Thinking L&L, I have to let it go as he is not wanting to be in charge just yet, and let the peices fall where they may for him. I know he will find his own way when he finds the need to. He truly is capable of keeping track of his assignments now, I fully trust, and cannot justify asking the school for any more. Most of his teachers are being very accommodating and allowing him to turn in his late work for full credit; for now. I wish they would not do that, the real world does not work that way, but the school system needs kids to pass, so they do it. Ugh.

We had probably a typical conversation last evening, where he said he got more motivation from his track coack about the importance of grades in one's future than he ever had from me his *entire* life. I just grinned and said isn't it wonderful you have such a great coach! Point being, my time with him is fini, exemplified when when afterwards I asked him, so what, if anything, would you want from me then? He said.......ennnnnn, oooooohhhh, tea, acchhhh, eye, ennnnn, geeeee..........(nothing) LOL! So be it then!

We all know kids speak without thinking first! Kids need their parents all their lives if they provide love and understanding.
My DH told me that he had 1 teacher in his high school days, that without his words, would not have finished school. It didn't help him remember to do his homework, but helped him do his work better in class. He was undiagnosed ADHD then. He said it was just the way this teacher was (also his coach/P.E.teacher). If your son has this with his coach, great if it helps him.

Something that I found out that some school districts across Canada have implemented is a computer program that teachers input grades on work completed and also what is not completed, and is sent via email to parents. My daughters high school has just started using it this year but not all teachers use it to its full extent. Most, only for those students that are falling behind or need improvement, which is probably why I didn't know about it (she's an honor student). Unfortunately, my son does not go to that school :(

When I talked to his school about it today, they told me it takes a teacher from the school to volunteer their time to set up the program and teach the others how to use it. So far, no one is game.

The eastern provinces have been using it for quite awhile and have found it very beneficial. To me, that means that the school system sees the need for some students to be "reminded" about incomplete work etc at the high school level.
I think if they could focus enough to remember homework, assignments, etc, on their own, then they wouldn't have been diagnosed ADD in the first place.

I do understand the fear that if they don't learn to take responsibility themselves now, they may never! And where does ADD end and teenage rebellion start?

FrazzleDazzle
03-03-08, 07:23 PM
Thanks for the affirmation, Mrs. A!

Yes, here we also have had the computer system for assignments and grades, and it is WONDERFUL! It is backpeddling, but most of his teachers have been good about letting him make up work from the notices from there, and have kept on top of the system for the most part themselves. I hear more and more schools are adopting this sytem, and I am all for it. He or I can check whenever we want to see how he did, since he doesn't get any work back at all for feedback. So, in that way it is nice too, he can ask the teacher for feedback, and e-mail directly from the system.

Your last question, says it all........UGH! LOL!

wifeandmom
03-03-08, 11:18 PM
Well, here's my tale of woe . . . and hope. We let dd paddle her own canoe this past 6 week grading period. We zipped our lip about grades, homework, chores, room cleaning, pretty much everything. She had said "When I go to college you won't be around to tell me what to do so I need to learn to do this for myself." So we let her show us how well she'd function on her own. Guess what? She isn't able to yet.

She did pretty well the first two weeks, then she took a quick nose dive. EVERYTHING was more interesting or fun that that darned ol' homework, picking up the debris in her room, etc. So when I looked on-line and saw that she wasn't doing her school work, Mom's laundry service stopped again. She wasn't deliberately refusing to do things. In fact, she'd say something like, "I'm going to go (fill in the blank - do homework, clean my room, read, etc.)" and it just didn't happen most times. She had a mad scramble last week to try to salvage her grades. We won't know until Friday if she's actually failed anything.

Here's what we learned about her failing (as of last week) Algebra: the teacher spends so long explaining the previous night's homework that she puts her head down and takes a wee nap. When she wakes up, they've zoomed out of homework zone into instructional zone. Uh Oh!!

Here's what we learned about her failing (as of last week) Art: the class is very unstructured and the teacher just lets the kids "do their own thing" and she takes a little mental vacation. Another Uh Oh!!

DD told me while we were waiting to see the Pdoc that she realized she needed more help from us than she'd been getting. I told her that I thought she needed a more structured routine with reminders. Talked to her about how I use Outlook at work to remind myself to start working on recurring reports and how I sent emails to the people who provided info for those reports EVERY time I needed the info. I explained that I used the computer to remind me about the reports and the other people depended on me to remind them. I explained that I had time blocked out on my calendar for certain projects, meetings, etc. and that I tried to stick to those times every week to stay organized. I told her doing that with her schoolwork wasn't being babyish; it was actually very mature because that's the way adults handle things at work. She agreed that the idea of blocking out time for various obligations was reasonable. Of course, agreement and action are not the same.

I'm now going to suggest that I contact her teachers each week (like I do the people who give me the info for my reports) and remind them to tell HER (not me) what work needs to be done. Hopefully that will extract me from the tension somewhat. It should also be easier for the teachers because they don't have to respond to me in writing.

Hopefully dd, the Assistant Principal, the school psychiatrist, and the teachers will all think this is brilliant. Hopefully this will work better than letting her paddle frantically as she approaches the waterfall ahead.

Sure wish these darn kids came with an instruction manual!

wifeandmom
03-03-08, 11:45 PM
Well, here's my tale of woe . . . and hope. We let dd paddle her own canoe this past 6 week grading period. We zipped our lip about grades, homework, chores, room cleaning, pretty much everything. She had said "When I go to college you won't be around to tell me what to do so I need to learn to do this for myself." So we let her show us how well she'd function on her own. Guess what? She isn't able to yet.

She did pretty well the first two weeks, then she took a quick nose dive. EVERYTHING was more interesting or fun that that darned ol' homework, picking up the debris in her room, etc. So when I looked on-line and saw that she wasn't doing her school work, Mom's laundry service stopped again. She wasn't deliberately refusing to do things. In fact, she'd say something like, "I'm going to go (fill in the blank - do homework, clean my room, read, etc.)" and it just didn't happen most times. She had a mad scramble last week to try to salvage her grades. We won't know until Friday if she's actually failed anything.

Here's what we learned about her failing (as of last week) Algebra: the teacher spends so long explaining the previous night's homework that she puts her head down and takes a wee nap. When she wakes up, they've zoomed out of homework zone into instructional zone. Uh Oh!!

Here's what we learned about her failing (as of last week) Art: the class is very unstructured and the teacher just lets the kids "do their own thing" and she takes a little mental vacation. Another Uh Oh!!

DD told me while we were waiting to see the Pdoc that she realized she needed more help from us than she'd been getting. I told her that I thought she needed a more structured routine with reminders. Talked to her about how I use Outlook at work to remind myself to start working on recurring reports and how I sent emails to the people who provided info for those reports EVERY time I needed the info. I explained that I used the computer to remind me about the reports and the other people depended on me to remind them. I explained that I had time blocked out on my calendar for certain projects, meetings, etc. and that I tried to stick to those times every week to stay organized. I told her doing that with her schoolwork wasn't being babyish; it was actually very mature because that's the way adults handle things at work. She agreed that the idea of blocking out time for various obligations was reasonable. Of course, agreement and action are not the same.

I'm now going to suggest that I contact her teachers each week (like I do the people who give me the info for my reports) and remind them to tell HER (not me) what work needs to be done. Hopefully that will extract me from the tension somewhat. It should also be easier for the teachers because they don't have to respond to me in writing.

Hopefully dd, the Assistant Principal, the school psychiatrist, and the teachers will all think this is brilliant. Hopefully this will work better than letting her paddle frantically as she approaches the waterfall ahead.

Sure wish these darn kids came with an instruction manual!

mrs A
03-05-08, 03:33 PM
wifeandmom I hope it all works for you! Our teachers are hit and miss with contacting parents or I asked some if they could remind my son about assignments etc, and some agreed but then "forgot" because they have so many students to deal with how can they remember which one needs what!
Sounds like here where I live is way behind in communication in the school system! And I thought this was a new thing about automatic emails for course work. If my son and I had that, I would be alot less stressed about trying to remember to ask him about each and every class and what work needs to be done and when! Or even just writing in his agenda and remembering to bring it home with the right books!
They are not adults yet (mine not even close!) and maybe we sometimes expect more than they are really capable of. I guess it is hard on us to not understand why they cannot do what we do to remind ourselves, very simple for us! and very frustrating for them I am sure.
My son will just put it out of his head if it causes panic (not sure what to do on an assignment) or overwhelmed, then it is gone forever, until he gets "caught" for not doing it. Then he has a major meltdown and sees how he got there and swears he will not let it happen again, until he forgets about it all!!!!!UGH.....

wifeandmom
03-05-08, 07:54 PM
Don't be too impressed with our technology. It's a classic GIGO situation. The teachers have to enter the grades for there to be meaningful information on the web site. That doesn't happen reliably. At one of our fun little "Reaching Academic Potential" meetings (conference with teachers, assistant principal, parents and student), I asked the teachers, "How can you expect her to turn in her work when you aren't turning in yours?" I assume they took that as a rhetorical question, since no one offered up a valid explanation. :p

mrs A
03-19-08, 07:42 PM
I haven't been here for awhile, just read your last post wifeandmom. That was a good one!! I see your point. There really isn't a fool proof solution for this I guess. Some teachers feel this isn't their job I guess?! I know quite a few that fall into this category.

Tiako44
04-27-08, 10:31 PM
I went to a Public High school that had no due dates on homework. Is was work at your own pace and instead of taking forever to turn things in I finished even faster. I finished some of my classes in less then a week. A class that would usually take 3 months to finish.