Has anyone experienced success managing their moods non-medically? My anger has gotten the best of me lately. I'm snapping at friends and random people for the most trivial things. I'm starting to worry that it's affecting my work/school life too. I just can't seem to shake this "funk" and my mood right now is about as dysphoric as I've ever felt. Seriously, I'm actually starting to worry that I'm going to lose my patience and start yelling at the wrong person/time. Friends have been asking me if "I'm feeling alright" and it takes a lot of control/focus to chill and respond that "I'm fine, but thanks for asking."

I'm just not at a point right now in my life where I can go through the weeks/months of trying different meds, especially with the prospect of encountering a destabilizing one or one that results in cognitive blunting... if my ADHD symptoms worsened, it'd be bad news bears as I already feeling like I'm hangin' on by the skin of my teeth.

Any advice would be much appreciated! :o

I was at where you are now before I "broke down" and started meds.

However, there were some things that helped a great deal. Strenuous, frequent physical exercise. Running is particularly helpful for me. 5 HTP (I started at 50 mg. and worked up to 300) worked wonders for my mood, but not enough to resolve all the problems I was having. Fish oil helps, B vitamins. That's what I did to control mine before it got to the point I was having trouble with my job and needed something to help.

I have been taking 5 HTP for a while. When I started I took 100mg in the morning and 100 in the afternoon because I read it gives people a spark in energy and focus. I actually started really feeling tired and it wasn't until a few days later that I finally clued in that 5htp was the cause. It was so stupid that I couldn't figure out the connection between starting taking a substance and a sudden sharp increase in fatigue that I found it very funny.

So I take it at night and it does help with sleep a bit and it doesn't make me lathergic or foggy at all like any tip of sleeping pill. My favorite benefit is that it gives me dreams, for years I hadn't been having any and its surprising how enjoyable getting them back is.

It is possible, but harder to obtain these days and just like meds there is no universal solution. The pharmas don't want to put money into finding natural products.

I have said this before, but many people will just do meds without a lifestyle change. If people even want to reach a point of thinking about natural maintenance they must make changes. So many of us relapse because we don't deal with our triggers, nutrition, etc.

I gotta say that I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond to my question, and what's even better is that your comments are insightful.

As for exercise, I love running but Chicago in the wintertime isn't too amenable to lakeshore jogs (especially with the foot of snow/ice covering all the paths currently)!

I've been taking a multi-B vitamin and fish oil daily for a few weeks but occasionally there are days when the fish oil pushes me a little over the edge... after doing some research through the NIMH websites, I discovered that a rare side effect of fish oil is triggering hypomania in people with BP. So, I've cut back on the fish oil and notice some improvement.

As for sleeping, I've been taking 2.5 mg of recombinant (non-animal derived) Melatonin sublingually every night, otherwise I don't sleep.

On a good day, my ADD is comparable to my former unmedicated self, but it takes a lot of effort to slow down & organize my thoughts... not to mention wanting to spring out of my chair every 5 minutes to do something else. I thought about stopping the adderall completely to see if I improved, but that idea backfired because those days were exponentially more stressful...

I haven't tried 5HTP (that's just serotonin, right)? Doesn't that give you terrible gastrointestinal problems (nausea/diarrhea,stomach cramps)?

I'm going to make an appointment with a counselor for next week to talk about better stress & anger management. If that doesn't help, that my pdoc and I will be having a nice long chit chat very soon.

Gosh I don't know how to explain this in a detailed way, Sponge you did a really good job though.

My answer NO. Never. Still have a hard time, and I have great meds that work great. Meds are not optional when Bipolar, ever.

However exercise, meditating, vitamans, sound therapy, keeping a sleeping schedule, etc is certainly an added plus and can help minimize things ... but there is no cure, no will power, no exercise and vitaman cure for BP. Even good meds will often only cause about 75% -80% cessation of symptoms.
Add all the things above you might get as close to 100% as possible.

5HTP bad bad bad idea. My sister who is NOT Bipolar took it and it shoved her right into a manic episode.

I have managed my ADD without meds for years, it sucks but it's' doable. BP is not a choice. My only recommendation for natural treatment of BP WITH regular pharmacutical meds are a good daily multivitaman & the Omega combos 3-6-9.

Other than that you will not hear from me there is a way to treat BP with some type of herbal remedy and I am a great fan of all natural , and so is my phychiatrist. There simply is not a treatment for it herbally.

One thing that might lead to some natural help is neuroplasticity. They have learned how to rewire the brain in certain stroke victims, autistic children, etc. If they can unlock more of these mysteries why not reqire the BP brain? I am interviewing a guru in the field next month and intend to ask hum just that.

I know I'm not able to be stable without my medication. If it weren't for my medication I'd still be cycling.

Thanks for the replies everyone. The appointment's set for Tuesday morning of this next week with my pdoc, so i'll just have to wait to hear his perspective... i just have to remind myself of the cardinal rule of medicine (especially psych): never self-diagnose.

Justhope, while your response is consistent with articles that I have read, I'm curious as to whether I can manage the symptoms without medication despite encountering some level of impairment? (rhetorical question/clarification moreso than an actual question at this point).

I am under a lot of stress right now, so I'm wondering if after the stress remits, will these symptoms remain... who knows.

I was hoping the same thing... can I live with BP with out the use of medication.... I have read on here that BP only get worse/increases with age... if thats so... I am not sure how much further I want this will take me with out some sort of treatment.....

For so long I have disagreed with medication... thinking too many people are misdiagnosed or just need some good therapy and self help books... maybe even religion/spiritual guidance and they will be fine... Now I know otherwise.. I have seen many people benefit from medication in the past couple of years... it just takes finding the right medication and dosage for the right person. (one not so great thing about us all being different)

I just saw a doctor today to get tested for BP..... reading these postings has helped me.... realizing that some (maybe many) of my behaviors and emotional states could be explained...I am still questioning myself... maybe its all in my head... maybe I just need some self help books and some spiritual guidance (although it has not worked so far) I am sure the good doc will tell me in during the next week or so....

In any rate, good luck to you in living a life without medication if that is what you choose. Please make sure you write and let me know what you find that works/doesn't work.

I go without meds and I go manic, like now for example, I swore off meds 3 weeks ago and went nuts, but I am still off meds, well if I go nuts I am going to load up on Seroquel but you know I am already manic so what else can I lose, I feel spectacular.

So to answer your question regardless of how good I feel, I agree with my Cycling Sister Hope on this one

No, Definitely Not

I go without meds and I go manic, like now for example, I swore off meds 3 weeks ago and went nuts, but I am still off meds, well if I go nuts I am going to load up on Seroquel but you know I am already manic so what else can I lose, I feel spectacular.


Don't tempt me.

As for stability without Meds their was a strong reason why we were diagnosed and prescriped medications in the first place. If you werent'stable before you got diagnosed with Bipolar you aren't likely to all of a sudden get stable after without adding meds. Thats why you get diagnosed, so you can get medications that helps.

Im sure their are a small minority of people with very mild Bipolar who don't need meds for stability, but those people wouldn't have gotten diagnosed either.

I wasn't intending to tempt you, I am sorry if I came off that way.

Part of my mental illness experience is complete noncompliance and that is what leads to me being where I am at, unstable and manic.

I am a poor example but I am among a fairly high percentage of bipolar disorder sufferers as well.

I know you weren't trying to tempt anyone, it just reminded me of the great feelings. But I know of the terrible experience that it is as a whole. I actually was trying ot make a joke, perhaps I should have added a smily face to make it more evident.

This is not medical advice, just passing along some information I found helpful. There is some research about the helpfulness of Omega III fatty acids in helping stabilize moods -- I'm not sure what the right amount would be -- for ADD Hallowell and Ratey (authors of Delivered from Distraction) recommend up to 5000 mg. for ADD -- I don't know the mg for depression. I only take 3000 mg and that seems right and helpful for me -- I expect everybody is a bit different.

Daily exercise is really crucial in balancing moods. It increases both the dopamine and serotonin levels in the brain. In head to head studies with Zoloft, exercise was superior (Spark, John Ratey).

Regular sleeping hours are very critical for melotonin production. Our melotonin which is what heals our bodies at night while we sleep dramatically increases while we sleep at nighttime, but once the light hits it drops off dramatically. The early morning sunshine helps in staving off depression as well.

These are just a few things that can be helpful in balancing things out. I'm not suggesting they replace medication if bipolar issues are the problem, but they can still be helpful in maintaining balance along with what your doctor prescribes. I'd suggest running anything new past your physician first. Hope things go well for you.

Another aspect of change in the treatment of BP that I rarely read about in these forums is the role of psychotherapy in the treatment of BP. Last night, I read Kay Redfield Jamison's "The Unquiet Mind," and my understanding of the pervasive nature of BP grew exponentially.

I'm going to work on making major lifestyle changes (cutting back on stress, regular exercise, better nutrition, regular sleep schedules, etc...) and see what happens in the near future...

If you haven't read her memoir, I highly recommend it!

On a sidenote: High daily doses (>3000 mg) of fish oil have been shown to have an anti-platelet activity. You run an increased risk of excessive bleeding/ hemorrhage if you take it regularly at such high doses. Consider talking to your GP/doc before starting such a regimen, especially if you're taking other medications. :o

Justhope, while your response is consistent with articles that I have read, I'm curious as to whether I can manage the symptoms without medication despite encountering some level of impairment? (rhetorical question/clarification moreso than an actual question at this point).

I am under a lot of stress right now, so I'm wondering if after the stress remits, will these symptoms remain... who knows. I hear where you are going. Of course I can only share what I have experienced, not only in my life, my son's , but what I have read here over the years. Stress can certainly lead to spikes in your cycles. That is what I meant by triggers. The problem is that is doesn't always have to be something we would deem, major stress to trigger it. For example. I was sick for a week. And after coming out of it, I was so happy to be well again, I was all over the place, about 1/2 through it I realized that it all the feelings, and emotions, had triggered me right into a small bout of hypomania. Something I hadn't really struggled with in months. So as much as I know myself, and as much as that doesn't seem like a big stressor rather more like a bummer...we deal with sometimes, it certainly caused an issue for me. I fought for 3 days to get level. So you might be able to limit some of the stressors in your life but some just creep up on you and you had no idea it was a stressor or a problem, until it gets you.



So to answer your question regardless of how good I feel, I agree with my Cycling Sister Hope on this one
Thanks Matt. You of all people can explain all to well the trials and tribulations that come along with the ugre to be "unmedicated" and the lie we are often tempted by when mania is around that we are "cured" or we feel so good it's time to come off....then you are certainly versed in all the hard things that follow after those decisions. Knowing you over the last year , and reading your struggles has reenforced my decision to remain on meds even more.


As for stability without Meds their was a strong reason why we were diagnosed and prescriped medications in the first place. If you werent'stable before you got diagnosed with Bipolar you aren't likely to all of a sudden get stable after without adding meds. Thats why you get diagnosed, so you can get medications that helps.

Im sure their are a small minority of people with very mild Bipolar who don't need meds for stability, but those people wouldn't have gotten diagnosed either. True , however the level of being unstable varies for many of us. Some don't get diagnosed until they are hosipitalized. Some of them just get tired of the up's and down's and some increasingly uncomfortable things going on in thier life that is our of character for them. That is what happened to me. Looking back in my life, my onset was in my teens. However, I managed most of my life without meds, although I certainly could have saved myself a lot of heartache, lost opportunities that I can't get back, and some serious other fall out had I of been stable sooner. I didn't go get dx because I was "severe" I just got very uncomfortable, had I have waited much longer it would have been too late...I am not sure I would been mentally aware enough to ask for help. I think I would have just ran 80 miles an hour headlong into a brick wall and never been the wiser.

I also agree there might be some mild cases out there doing fine off meds, I just said I did in my earlier years, while still in the early stages. But I certainly screwed up a lot of things as a result of just that "mild" untreated stage, I wish I could undo now. The problem is , they won't stay mild for long. I prefer to stay on the BPII side of things, I have seen people I care about on the extreme side of the later progressive disease....I'll pass.


Pre-BP dx, when I still believed I ws just ADD & depressed. I exercised, I took vitamens, Fish oils, and both Melatonin & Valerian Root to sleep. That worked for awhile. When my disease progressed, nothing worked anymore. I had no choice but to start the rounds of meds to see which one was going to do it for me. I was lucky I found one of them the first go around, I have had some tweaking along the way, just like most of us do. I had a choice. No one forced me to take them. We all have a choice to be healthy or not.
Diabetics can choose to treat their diabetes with diet and exercise and reduce stress, when it progresses they still have a choice, except their actual body is missiong something key to make them function like normal, certainly not their fault, and they can continue to do as they were, exercising and such, but eventurally they will have an episode and most likely die. Ultimately, BP's are the same. Our bodies , are missing something, we can attempt to treat it in the beginning with all the "natural" approaches offered. We might be able to function that way happily for awhile, however eventually, when the disease progresses, if we continue those choices we do can end up dead. Literally , or figuratively speaking. Either one is not something I am personally willing to do. So for me, it's a def NO on a choice of taking meds for my BP. <!-- / message -->

Thanks Matt. You of all people can explain all to well the trials and tribulations that come along with the ugre to be "unmedicated" and the lie we are often tempted by when mania is around that we are "cured" or we feel so good it's time to come off....then you are certainly versed in all the hard things that follow after those decisions. Knowing you over the last year , and reading your struggles has reenforced my decision to remain on meds even more.


You're Welcome Hope, I am glad I can inspire others to stay on medicine. I just wish that I could inspire myself to stay on them. I am getting back on the meds too. I have to wait because I dumped them all down the toilet though, except for Seroquel. Last night after not sleeping for 3 days I took some seroquel (like 300 mg) and went to sleep for about 4 hours.

Well that is the hard side for you Matt. The fact that the inspiration you give others has to come from a place of frustration, and pain for you. But well I guess you can look at it from that positive light that you are , despite the pain you often struggle with, helping others get and remain stable.

The point is Matt, you may fall, but you continue to get up.
It's when you stay down, you have lost the battle. I hope for your sake and the rest of us who care about you, you never stop fighting.

I'm *almost* glad that my bipolar expresses itself primarily in the form of depression, with just a few very scary episodes brought on by stress which quickly spiraled into the kind of mania that gets you on the news (I didn't thank God, but could have). I guess that makes me more likely to stick to all the annoying lifestyle changes (get up and go to sleep at the same time every day, regardless; use bright light in the winter, 5 HTP, etc) because I want to avoid the pain of the depression.

I kinda feel for those of you who get manic and get the good feeling stuff (prior to the crash, I suppose) -- it would be quite tempting, but doesn't all kinds of yucky stuff go along with it (paranoia, etc)? It sounds kind of like a drug high that goes bad.

I have read Kay (I can never remember her last name) memoirs, and from that I got the sense that horror is always on the heels of mania. Hopefully that can keep it from being to much of a siren song for those who get it.

I kinda feel for those of you who get manic and get the good feeling stuff (prior to the crash, I suppose) -- it would be quite tempting, but doesn't all kinds of yucky stuff go along with it (paranoia, etc)? It sounds kind of like a drug high that goes bad.

That is the severe side of Bipolar I's symptoms. Bipolar I with psychotic features. Not found in BPII. However, untreated, BipolarII's will spiral headlong into the BPI stages. That is part of the progression of the disease, and why I personally choose to stay medicated. And why it's important to come wiht terms once diagnosed as a Cyclothymic, of Bipolar II, that you need to get on medication and stay on it. Forever, there is no cure only a "very personal " cessation of symptoms which is unique to each person, but that is one of the only way to slow the progressive of the disease. BPII's don't have mania, as described by Matt's struggles or as is described by the DSM.

We have hypomanic episodes, which are kinda of like the baby version.
We have the pressure speech, the gradiosity, insomnia, increased complusive or risky behaviors, etc similiar but are not characterizsed by that severity or length of time. That is part of the difference in diagnostic criteria. I have never had a physchotic episode. I have never been hospitalized. Mine don't last more than a day or two. They are followed by a crash that leads to the cycle of depression, followed by sometimes days of 'normal'.

It is also harder for men because they often have the "fun" side of mania, with the euphoria etc that makes it that much harder to convince them that they are sick or to stay med compliant. Which makes them at much more risk to end up in the worse places as a direct result.

Us women seem to miss most of the "fun" part. We are often found to be more aggitated, moody, prone to fits or explosions at this stage of the cycle. While we might get out of the bed, in a swirl of energy, jabbering incessantly while calling or visiting folks we haven't talked to in weeks because we were depressed and not coming out of the dark. WE are often prone to going off when disturbed or at attempt to redirect or discuss why we are up at all hours doing housework, or crafts, or saving the world, or spending the bill money on shopping spress, when last week we wanted to die. It is often easier for us to med compliant, sometimes harder to diagnose, both being women and BPII, which are notoriously rapid cyclers.

I would not trade places with Matt for a day. But I do admire him very much for his often shocking and brutal honesty about his struggle as a Bipolar I. You are correct in your coorelation to a really bad drug high going bad.

You are correct in your coorelation to a really bad drug high going bad.

I used to use Cocaine a lot in my early 20's and I have to say that they were synergistic with each other (mania and coke). My first experience with psychotic paranoia was from Cocaine and I never had psychotic paranoia itself, as part of mania until a couple of years ago.

So leaving it untreated is not good and adding kindling did nothing good for it either. I had a psychotic paranoid experience for almost a couple weeks recently and ended up in one of the 72 hour involuntary hospitalization situations so I still don't get why I am choosing to stay manic but that is the illness.

Riding the Manic High, Living in Grandeur.

It feels good, but it can be misconstrued as natural by people and you can be misjudged as something that isn't good, like narcissism for example. I had been diagnosed with having that as a PD in addition to the one that I did have (Antisocial) and that was due to mania and the symptoms that go along with that.

You seem very level headed in your posts for someone that is manic. If you didn't say you were manic I never would have guesed.

Well that depends on the level of manic we are often in at the time.
And that is often why we can get away with so much if we are not flying too high....we can convince most unsuspecting people of just about anything. But mostly ourselves! And unless we are experiencing phychosis...it's not like we come with a sign, we often appear hyped or off on some new exciting project or thought process but we are not outright, visibly nutso to everyone..or the untrained, unskilled eye!


I tend to stay away from here when I am manic, I am often snippy and crabby and post before I think.......if you get to know folks here...overtime you will know by the frequency of their posting, the times of their postings, and the language where they are at if they don't just flat out tell you. Most of the time, Matt's posts and some of the original Cyclers, will almost 'warn" you about their mood so you know they need support, or to brace yourself for a possible rollercoaster ride ....it goes with the territory.

I tend to stay away from here when I am manic, I am often snippy and crabby and post before I think.......if you get to know folks here...overtime you will know by the frequency of their posting, the times of their postings, and the language where they are at if they don't just flat out tell you. Most of the time, Matt's posts and some of the original Cyclers, will almost 'warn" you about their mood so you know they need support, or to brace yourself for a possible rollercoaster ride ....it goes with the territory.

I only avoid ADDF when I know I am mixed. When I am manic I am a bit haughty but I tend to be white more often now, like now for example so I am on the cell phone just connecting with everyone I know and here just sharing thiss intense love and care for people.

I was mixed, psychotic and paranoid recently though and started PMing numerous people and accusing them of conspiring against me. I tend to comprimise my membership here when I am mixed so I make it a point not to come around. Another update is that I am resuming Depakote, my doctor's going to write me out new prescriptions for Dep and Dex tomorrow so I will be levelled out, everyone seems to be talking me out of staying this way so I guess perseverence is going to win.

I have only experienced a couple of mixed episodes, they suck. I can't imagine ...having to deal with them more regularly and more intense in nature. I don't know how you do it Matt...I simply can't fathom it. I hope I never do.


That is awesome Matt! Let us know how it's going! You always keep plugging away, despite the potholes in the road! Great news! :)

im going in for ADHD diagnoses this week but also going to mention bipolar aswell and i've known i've had problems since i was a kid and in all those years I can still barely manage it.

Hi Beash!


Glad to hear you are going to the doc! Please let us know how it goes!

Hope