View Full Version : Sadistic Personality Disorder


Matt S.
02-12-08, 12:13 AM
This is a DSM-III Diagnosis that no longer is formally used but it is still used as a label itself as opposed to just Narcissistic PD or Antisocial PD.


Sadistic personality disorder is a pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood, as indicated by the repeated occurrence of at least four of the following:

Has used physical cruelty or violence for the purpose of establishing dominance in a relationship (not merely to achieve some noninterpersonal goal, such as striking someone in order to rob him/her).
Humiliates or demeans people in the presence of others.
Has treated or disciplined someone under his/her control unusually harshly.
Is amused by, or takes pleasure in, the psychological or physical suffering of others (including animals).
Has lied for the purpose of harming or inflicting pain on others (not merely to achieve some other goal).
Gets other people to do what he/she wants by frightening them (through intimidation or even terror).
Restricts the autonomy of people with whom he or she has a close relationship, e.g., will not let spouse leave the house unaccompanied or permit teenage daughter to attend social functions.
Is fascinated by violence, weapons, injury, or torture.The behavior has not been directed toward only one person (e.g., spouse, one child) and has not been solely for the purpose of sexual arousal (as in sexual sadism).

~boots~
02-12-08, 12:28 AM
well that's it M...the wedding is back on :)

imagine 2 of those together??? eeekkk...

NonSequitor
02-12-08, 03:59 AM
It is as if the depths of my soul have spoken...

Totally not that extreme but I have wondered if other people actually get off on conflict. It's like I'll create drama and insanity just so I can experience how good it feels when everything's better.

I really am a nice girl most of the time. It can be misleading.

meadd823
02-12-08, 04:43 AM
Totally not that extreme but I have wondered if other people actually get off on conflict. It's like I'll create drama and insanity just so I can experience how good it feels when everything's better.


I have to watch myself here because I will enter into conflict for the mental stimulation - I have no desire to hurt and the control I am exerting is upon self - but certain conflicts work as a stimulant - gives my brain focus.

The manipulative disorders as the one described in the initial post

boundaries that keep people suffering from these conditions at a safe distance - so for me I maintain good personal boundaries complete with high voltage electric fence.

NonSequitor
02-12-08, 04:44 AM
Boundaries? What are boundaries?

I have to ask this once in a while. This makes others angry, I know.

QueensU_girl
02-12-08, 11:19 AM
Gosh, where did THIS thread topic come from? ::blink blink::

Matt S.
02-12-08, 12:25 PM
I found it and thought it was interesting even though it is an outdated PD.

eric84
02-12-08, 07:28 PM
Geez, Matt you sure pick some morbid things to bring up on this site, man!!!

~boots~
02-12-08, 07:36 PM
Geez, Matt you sure pick some morbid things to bring up on this site, man!!!he is great at finding valuable stuff to help us learn more about others...it's helping with our empathy:p

Matt S.
02-12-08, 07:42 PM
he is great at finding valuable stuff to help us learn more about others...it's helping with our empathy:p

It's all about reality, it exists therefore it should be recognized so people can protect themselves.

eric84
02-12-08, 08:05 PM
Thanks for the FYI

QueensU_girl
02-13-08, 06:40 PM
Is it a real PD?

Matt S.
02-15-08, 12:56 AM
It was in the DSM-III.

NonSequitor
02-18-08, 10:30 PM
"It's all about reality, it exists therefore it should be recognized so people can protect themselves."

EXACTLY.

Speaking of this, anyone seen Thank You for Smoking? It touches on this quite a bit. Just saw it, awesome movie.

Matt S.
02-18-08, 10:32 PM
Yeah I have seen it. You are right too, right on point.

sloppitty-sue
02-19-08, 11:22 PM
I don't know how many of you have actually had the experience of being this kind of a person's target. If you have had that experience, you might not toss the topic around so casually. You'll be a forever changed person, life as you know it will be gone forever, it's the end of the innocence, you will know that some people really ARE EVIL and without a conscience. Living it is SO DIFFERENT than reading about it. I don't believe anyone can conjur up the horror without experiencing it firsthand.

(Just a comment. Not meaning it in a morally judging kind of way.)

Matt S.
02-19-08, 11:29 PM
I have been the target of personality disordered people my whole life (Borderline mostly to be specific) and they are not nice people at all. You feel as if you have to walk on eggshells and conform to prevent abuse both physically and emotionally. They can stalk you sometimes and maipulate you. I have been there. It is miserable and I have dealt with it for years. I bet that PD was a cluster 'B' PD, a lot of people with cluster B's of any kind (Borderline, Antisocial, Narcissistic and Histrionic) are pretty evil manipulative selfish people. Not all of them but a lot of them are.

I post a lot of these to inform. I had a review of my diagnosis recently at my request and had both of the PD's I was diagnosed with ruled out, I no longer am diagnosed with one actually. I have bipolar disorder and the exclusion criteria was never paid any attention during my diagnosis. I am still doing work in therapy but it is PTSD centered now and it is helping a lot more.

meadd823
02-22-08, 03:05 PM
I have to ask this once in a while. This makes others angry, I know.

I do not understand why any one would become angry due to a perfectly relevant question, but then again people become angry for a variety of illogical reasons.

Here is a site that does an excellent job of explaining personal boundaries in a way that is relevant to this discussion.


Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting self (http://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm)


I don't know how many of you have actually had the experience of being this kind of a person's target.

I am being far from flippant. . .

I have not only been a target I was a "victim" as a youngster thus the high voltage electrical fence.

I agree it is a life changing experience but ones whose lessons are not easily forgotten.

This past experience can be used to my benefit or my detriment, it is my choice. I refuse to be a victim any longer by using the knowledge I gained to benefit me and as many others as possible.Thus the reason for my appearance in this thread.


Use of healthy personal boundaries is to keep my life free from toxic people while allowing the healthy folks to remain.

meadd823
02-22-08, 03:19 PM
I am just a worthless liar. I am just an imbecile.
I will only complicate you. trust in me and fall as well.
I will find a center in you. I will chew it up and leave.
I will work to elevate you, just enough to bring you down."
Tool-Sober


Makes me furrow my brow and go hmmmm interesting choice in relation to present topic.


I hold no moral judgments, I have no reason to.

I just find the opposition with same person rather interesting. . .I wonder if it is a reflection of the internal conflict being experienced by the writter of these words.



I believe.

I took too long for lunch making it harder to get my happy hinny back to work.

oh yea and other stuff like

What we write, how we write it, and the manner in which we choose to present ourselves is a reflection of who we are having little to do with any one else.

People do reveal who they are in a variety of ways, many with ADD make the mistake of not trusting in their own perceptions.

I do not assign evil or good to individuals it is not really logical.

I may be at the center of my own universe but I am not the center of any one else's

I believe every one has a reason for being who and what they are, that reason is not me.

Remembering this allows me take people and their behavior less personally.

Matt S.
02-22-08, 04:02 PM
Lyrics to song that I like called sober, that verse is supposed to be a metaphor for the drug speaking to the person :D

I exhibit symptoms of these personality disorders when I am manic. I also put things out there very honestly so I find myself shocked when people are surprised.

I thought you had experience with people that have bipolar disorder?

I have been the target of personality disordered people in my time, borderlines to be specific and they engage in selfish, manipulative behaviors and target people and obsess and try to undermine them when they don't deserve it. They also are needy and demanding and tend to suck the psychic energy from people.

Another thing that people with borderline personality disorder are experts at is splitting, in which they make themselves look like the victim by twisting the reality of a situation, failing to accept any responsibility for their part in the situation and subsequently turning another person or groups of people against someone and slandering them and the other people sympathize so they get manipulated and never ask the "bad guy" what happened. Does wonders for one's reputation, it's a recurring nightmare in my life. In fact, there have been recent IRL examples of this pattern and I get stronger every day and learn ways to 'break the cycle'. ---------->what is the answer?

Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting self (http://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm)

Boundaries are what help me too, actually because the pattern is that these people will vent to me like I am a therapist and having ADHD makes it hard for me because I ignore them and "Yeah, uh, huh" them, because I am not a mean person but they believe that I am actually listening to what they are saying when in fact, I am thinking about 20 other things. I empathize with what I can understand and validate them.

In the past and even more recently my approach to getting someone with BPD off of my case is to tell them what they want to hear because I know that they essentially seek "Validation" for their suffering and because these people are so clingy, I have to resort to a negative and sometimes emotionally abusive way to get them to stop violating my personal space and attempting to ruin my life. I do not like doing that but when the abuse that I have to receive when I just want to be a friend and understand how to relate to them, because I care about them, because they are nice people when they want to be starts interfering with me and my mental health then it allows me to feel like it is okay. It Is Wrong for me to do that...

I feel guilty for my behavior in these situations but I am also angry that these people twist reality, when in fact, BOTH PARTIES ARE ALWAYS IN THE WRONG. Often, although not always the other party tends to be the proverbial 'bad guy'.


A lot of BPD's meet criteria for this disorder which is why I chose to elaborate on my experience of being abused.

Matt S.
02-22-08, 04:43 PM
I am quite manic so I feel as though I am obligated to research a little more on Histrionic Personality Disorder and to observe the connection between that Cluster B and this formerly used diagnosis because these 4 personality disorders all have a connection.

The Narcissistic and Antisocial PD association is obvious, the Borderline PD association is obvious to those who have been there and Histrionic PD sufferers are right 'up there' as far as wreaking havoc is concerned.

Because people have the right to be informed and protect themselves.

I do like to help people :) I am a nice guy:)

Positive affirmations are generally part of an integrated plan to treat personality disorders after all.

I think I will do that (HPD research) because my fellow members and the array of guests who visit the site deserve to have some understanding of me and my personal madness including the overall lack of relevance of this thread until elaborating on it.

Ugh that makes no sense, sometimes I hate being manic.

Matt S.
02-22-08, 04:58 PM
The HPD is highly reactive. If there is another major disorder present, such as delusional disorder, then emotional intensity will create anger, rage, abuse and distance in relationships.

People with histrionic personality disorder may have rapid shifts of emotion that may seem artificial. They may overreact emotionally or sexually to situations. They can be very manipulative, using emotional explosions to get their way.

I guess I have found an element of connection here.

Histrionic Personality Disorder based on what I have read is the "flirtatious shallow woman" and the "macho man" and violence and abuse is common more or less as a desire to keep the "center of attention" on them.

So there is a connection :D

Matt S.
02-22-08, 08:36 PM
Lyrics to song that I like called sober, that verse is supposed to be a metaphor for the drug speaking to the person :D

I exhibit symptoms of these personality disorders when I am manic. I also put things out there very honestly so I find myself shocked when people are surprised.

I thought you had experience with people that have bipolar disorder?

I have been the target of personality disordered people in my time, borderlines to be specific and they engage in selfish, manipulative behaviors and target people and obsess and try to undermine them when they don't deserve it. They also are needy and demanding and tend to suck the psychic energy from people.

Another thing that people with borderline personality disorder are experts at is splitting, in which they make themselves look like the victim by twisting the reality of a situation, failing to accept any responsibility for their part in the situation and subsequently turning another person or groups of people against someone and slandering them and the other people sympathize so they get manipulated and never ask the "bad guy" what happened. Does wonders for one's reputation, it's a recurring nightmare in my life. In fact, there have been recent IRL examples of this pattern and I get stronger every day and learn ways to 'break the cycle'. ---------->what is the answer?



Boundaries are what help me too, actually because the pattern is that these people will vent to me like I am a therapist and having ADHD makes it hard for me because I ignore them and "Yeah, uh, huh" them, because I am not a mean person but they believe that I am actually listening to what they are saying when in fact, I am thinking about 20 other things. I empathize with what I can understand and validate them.

In the past and even more recently my approach to getting someone with BPD off of my case is to tell them what they want to hear because I know that they essentially seek "Validation" for their suffering and because these people are so clingy, I have to resort to a negative and sometimes emotionally abusive way to get them to stop violating my personal space and attempting to ruin my life. I do not like doing that but when the abuse that I have to receive when I just want to be a friend and understand how to relate to them, because I care about them, because they are nice people when they want to be starts interfering with me and my mental health then it allows me to feel like it is okay. It Is Wrong for me to do that...

I feel guilty for my behavior in these situations but I am also angry that these people twist reality, when in fact, BOTH PARTIES ARE ALWAYS IN THE WRONG. Often, although not always the other party tends to be the proverbial 'bad guy'.


A lot of BPD's meet criteria for this disorder which is why I chose to elaborate on my experience of being abused.


The reference in which I used the term "Splitting" was derived from the term "Staff Splitting" and that can be found in the book, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Borderline Personality Disorder by Marsha Linehan.

reesah
02-22-08, 10:40 PM
I am not a good person to be very close to in real life. I can tell you that strong boundaries will keep you from harm more than anything else.

I am human, too, and do deserve support and kindness. however kindness that is given foolishly, and without safe boundaries, encourages abuse.

people who abuse children are a different breed. parents protecting and believing their kids is a good defense.

here however, I am speaking of those, like myself, who take advantage of adults. if you are an adult YOUR OWN SAFETY should come first- before anything else.

being "caring" and "helping" me, when you have no boundaries to protect you, is like handing an alcoholic a bottle of vodka. I cannot resist temptation without extreme effort. I now avoid people who have bad boundaries. I don't have "nice" "helpful" "sweet" friends ny more. now the people I am close to are very strong-minded people, who know when I have pushed too much. I have to watch my step and behave around them.

this is helpful in a much deeper and more important way. by enforcing their boundaries, these people train me to stop hurting others, as well as protecting themselves.

I will always do what is in my own best interest. I don't think I'm sadistic - for me, hurting people is not the goal, though it does happen. it is in my best interest to have friends and some social contacts. I do need the connection, even though I am not feeling the same as others. people who have strong boundaries help me, their behavior helps me leanr how to maintain those connections, and how to avoid hurting people and losing them.

this is not the case for many people like me. I know that most will, like I used to when I was younger, be attracted to weak boundaries like moths to a flame. as I've gotten older I've found that to be really unpleasant for me, so I've stopped.

I have some boundaries now too, and getting close to those with weak boundaries...is one of them. it's no good for me.

I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone, I thought it would maybe show why sociopaths aren't the same as sadists and how having boundaries is the only real way to "be a friend" and "care" for us. just giving in isn't the way.

reesah
02-22-08, 10:45 PM
I wanted to add that I am here just to try to learn and be more stable. I know I have a pd dx that will frighten some people or anger some. I don't intend to harm anyone here, or to be unkind if I can at all help it. its in my best interest, and is likely to remain so, to be honest and seek help in this forum. if something I say sounds wrong or out of line I don't want anyone to be afraid to tell me; I need to hear it, I need to learn to do this. and thanks to addf and everyone for letting me seek support here.

Matt S.
02-22-08, 10:57 PM
Well said, I think you elaborated on a point that I was. This is an outdated diagnosis anyhow, it isn't used and people seemed to equivocate sadistic PD as either ASPD or NPD, so I chose to show all related PD's that there are have a sadistic element.

reesah
02-22-08, 11:40 PM
yes. I hear a lot (other places) that sociopaths enjoy hurt and pain in others, but it isn't always that simple. it's achieving some other goal that is enjoyable, and the suffering that comes to others along the way is distant and kind of meaningless (to the sociopaths viewpoint). although I have met people who were sadistic, not all of them were sociopathic. some were people with very weak boundaries, who almost seemed to get joy from being seen as victims, or from drama that has no end. I guess that is bpd but I'm not too sure.

I'm a sociopath. I despise conflict. it just draws unnecessary attention to me and interferes with whatever I'm doing. a lot of my most unkind acts have been done simply to escape repercussions or confrontations about something. I hated being questioned or asked to perform emotionally when I was younger. any emotional conflict, is literally a "performance" for me.

now I just stay out of relationships, and stay well away from people with unhealthy boundaries- weak ones, or lack of respect for mine. I respect boundaries once I realize they are strong, I'd tell anyone that wants to avoid being taken advantage of to have strong boundaries and never make exceptions.

I respond very well to kindness, though, as long as its source is well defended.
I'm aso learning to see helping others and exchanging kindness as a goal in itself. not quite like karma but more like if I am helpful and respectful I am not so likely to need to escape, there will be no consequences to fear, I can be of use this way...it's much how I feel about my career. ( I'm NOT in any kind of healing teaching etc etc profession, I'm a illustrator ) I can do something useful. this gives me a lot of security which is a good goal.

ozchris
02-22-08, 11:53 PM
I've been around people like this and they can slowly poison you after a while. You start thinking what they do is normal and ok and it just really messes with your head.

Often the person with this disorder can't help the way they act but I think it comes down to looking after yourself. Keep a distant relationship if you feel you can't handle it.

I wish I knew about personal boundaries when I dealt with these kind of people in the past :rolleyes:

Matt S.
02-23-08, 12:00 AM
yes. I hear a lot (other places) that sociopaths enjoy hurt and pain in others, but it isn't always that simple. it's achieving some other goal that is enjoyable, and the suffering that comes to others along the way is distant and kind of meaningless (to the sociopaths viewpoint). although I have met people who were sadistic, not all of them were sociopathic. some were people with very weak boundaries, who almost seemed to get joy from being seen as victims, or from drama that has no end. I guess that is bpd but I'm not too sure.

I'm a sociopath. I despise conflict. it just draws unnecessary attention to me and interferes with whatever I'm doing. a lot of my most unkind acts have been done simply to escape repercussions or confrontations about something. I hated being questioned or asked to perform emotionally when I was younger. any emotional conflict, is literally a "performance" for me.

now I just stay out of relationships, and stay well away from people with unhealthy boundaries- weak ones, or lack of respect for mine. I respect boundaries once I realize they are strong, I'd tell anyone that wants to avoid being taken advantage of to have strong boundaries and never make exceptions.

I respond very well to kindness, though, as long as its source is well defended.
I'm aso learning to see helping others and exchanging kindness as a goal in itself. not quite like karma but more like if I am helpful and respectful I am not so likely to need to escape, there will be no consequences to fear, I can be of use this way...it's much how I feel about my career. ( I'm NOT in any kind of healing teaching etc etc profession, I'm a illustrator ) I can do something useful. this gives me a lot of security which is a good goal.

Yeah, I am actually mspen1018 so I understand exactly what you mean with what you are saying, the PM's. I have the habit of attracting borderlines (common with men that are ASPD) and that was what I was elaborating on up there, they have weak boundaries and they seem to want to attract those types (borderline women especially) and they are boundary parasites, they hate them so yeah, they are great and I can care to a certain extent because I want to understand them but it is always short lived, like I do have Bipolar and ADHD so I can relate to them having issues but it will eat you alive and it sucks.

Being a sociopath doesn't mean hating people or being mean like you said, it is more of a selfishness thing. I don't crave attention of any kind from people and I move a lot and will again after I get out of school and one thing I accept is that borderlines are gullible and they are liars too so you have job references and all sorts of things there and I never mislead them I just seem to listen and their mentality allows them to think I am like a knight in shining armor. The escape part is what sucks, because it hard with people like them and they make me look like a monster just because I don't care and the whole time I ever spent with them was spent going, yeah, uh huh, so I don't get it.

I mean I always try to say to ignorant folks that try to judge that maybe they should empathize and imagine what it feels like to have to put on a performance to show emotion. I never really get depressed for example, I just get manic (bipolar wise) and I think there's a connection... off topic there but I am manic still so I am not making a lot of sense.

reesah
02-23-08, 12:17 AM
oz exactly, that is exactly true. you need to be aware of what your boundaries are and stay distant if you have to.

like ms/matt said, it is as simple as us just not having those feelings. it can be very tiring to have to act for someone, to put on a mask that is emotionally connected, when you don't care.


I can only speak for myself. I am a woman, and I have known many girls who were like that in their relationships- they'd assume more than was real and then have hysterical tantrums when the man left. I think when people with bpd sense what we are they want to be around us in some way. I know tha being around them is exciting to me, it makes some kind of compensation for my own dead zones. some kind of sick balance.

I avoid people like this now but for a long time I was surrounded by them, male and female. they all seemed to assume I was just as involved as they were.

I have found that being a jerk, not saying "uh huh" but instead saying "I don't care. I am not interested. I don't want to get to know you any better." ... well, it keeps my life simpler and easier than being polite and all. to encourage someone with high hopes and weak boundaries is (ive been told) cruel to them, and (i have learned) a waste of my own time and energy. I don't care much of peoples opinions, and I'm far enough along with my work, that I don't need anyones approval to be secure. so now I would rather be a d1ck to people right away, than hurt them more deeply, and have more trouble to deal with, later.

people who have strong boundaries and are stable are about the only people I even respond to, anymore, in real life. I know they won't pull that emotional train wreck on me, so I can afford to be friendly.

Matt S.
02-23-08, 12:39 AM
The Uh-huh's are part of the ADHD. Half of the time I don't hear half of what they say. I admit that it is cruel because I can pick up a BPD in at least 30 seconds. That was well put about the strong boundaries too, I have a couple friends with strong boundaries that have been friends for years and they are respected by me because of that. The lack of emotional train wreck is a good part of it.

You are older too.

reesah
02-23-08, 12:52 AM
matt it gets way easier. for real. the train wrecks my age, are usually busy with their kids. I refuse to be around kids or parents, always have. that alone keeps a lot of the wrong people away.

I am sure I miss out on afew decent people with that boundary, but it is worth it for my peace of mind.

also, if you're my age you end up with more investment in staying in one place. this is a new things for me in the last few years, I am still struggling to deal with finding ways to curb myself and train myself to stay here and make my life better.

I feel like I wasted a lot of time with other people. being alone and glad about it now, its way easier now than it used to be.

Matt S.
02-23-08, 12:55 AM
That's encouragement, I have heard that it mellows out.

reesah
02-23-08, 12:59 AM
I should mention too, that I've been in the same career now for 13 years. I no longer have supervisors, or people dictating my workday, or any office politics to deal with. I'm really investing in staying at one place, I've never done that, I know my years and my abilities give me a lot but having seniority too would mean I'd get to pick projects and cherrypick my coworkers for each one. this would make my job almost perfect. so I really need to learn to tone down my personal life and learn to deal with people properly.

that's my age too. it took a decade before I was past the point where my machinations and manipulation of people stopped benefitting me.

Luthien
02-23-08, 03:46 AM
I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone, I thought it would maybe show why sociopaths aren't the same as sadists and how having boundaries is the only real way to "be a friend" and "care" for us. just giving in isn't the way.

It makes sense. You and matt's posts here are instances of something that rarely happens .. a real widening of my perspective. I can't say that it is nice to read, and I know I have the inclination to prefer to read things that make me "feel good". Well, like most people, I suppose.
But this is somehow better then nice. It is one of those discussions that create (psychological) space. And it makes me think about my own boundaries. I've been in a couple of situations where they were not sufficient.

Thank you.

reesah
02-23-08, 04:02 AM
I know. it feels awkward for me to talk about this. I'm glad it was useful in some way.

Matt S.
02-23-08, 11:09 AM
It makes sense. You and matt's posts here are instances of something that rarely happens .. a real widening of my perspective. I can't say that it is nice to read, and I know I have the inclination to prefer to read things that make me "feel good". Well, like most people, I suppose.
But this is somehow better then nice. It is one of those discussions that create (psychological) space. And it makes me think about my own boundaries. I've been in a couple of situations where they were not sufficient.

Thank you.

I appreciate your lack of judgement in this

Mine is a reflection of IRL related things. Like this AM for instance my mother decided to contct me, and she is borderline so when she contacts me it is all about a crisis. The current crisis for her is the fact that I am manic, it is dying off so it may be better described as hypomanic at this point, but that is irrelevent. I also for whatever reason call her at strange hours during mania so I should try to stop that. So I play into it for whatever reason but I am loving to people and want to "reach out" during mania for whatever reason.

I disconnect from that and I am starting to do that with drama because admittedly as much as I hate to say it, I have always thought that BPD related drama was amusing. As I get older however, it gets older too.

IMHO, my IRL behavior is not something I feel is reflected upon on this site. I feel like I learn a lot about social skills and emotions I don't have by coming here and I believe that I am kind and supportive and people are different and I happen to like and care about and respect quite a few people here contrary to my character "differences", so when I am honest about things and people become distant as a result, due to ignorance, I get irritated, considering a few times I have gotten to know and like a person well.

IMHO, if I was "dangerous or predatory", I would not be honest about it either and I put it out there so that is how it is, in my mind. I feel like that should be something that is understood. I am not some narcissist, my posts should validate that (I can be during mania but everybody has some level of narcissism, except BPD's maybe) and I am real, I am not someone that puts on a facade and sells this delusion to the rest of the world that I am somehow perfect, I have survived hell in my own life and been the victim of all sorts of things myself, including myself.

I understand that about me, that I can be my own worst enemy but I do not classify myself or others as bad or good, that is the other reference to the term "Splitting" in psychology and I do not have that problem. I don't seek anything from people here but understanding and support and I give it when I can based on my experience and knowledge of things.

I just felt like I should add to this again, repeating basically the same things I have so that way people can understand versus fear or judge.

reesah
02-23-08, 11:44 AM
I understand that.

I am not dangerous or predatory in any way that can reach through the internet to this forum and harm somebody. I'm here to learn and get help.

there are plenty of other internets I would use to be manipulative or unkind. this place is safe for me and already helping and I intend to keep it that way.

I feel like people don't understand that I can't hurt them without their assistance, sometimes. I understand if some feel like being distant, that too is a boundary. but in here I won't allow myself to pose any threat.

Matt S.
02-23-08, 12:50 PM
I feel like people don't understand that I can't hurt them without their assistance, sometimes. I understand if some feel like being distant, that too is a boundary. but in here I won't allow myself to pose any threat.

Ditto on that one. One thing I have learned recently, a good part of it has been coming from this site is that prosocial behavior can improve one's self esteem such as helping people when I can. It does actually make me feel good that some experiences I share are helpful to others.

The beauty of antisocial behavior is that (IMO) for however long, it takes you away from everyone else. It is something that everybody engages in at some point in some way or another, whether it is crying your way out of a speeding ticket, a little white lie or a serious crime of some sort. I personally, if anything engage in very little myself.

I also have other issues besides a different character, such as ADHD and Bipolar Disorder so I have a safe place here as a member, a reason to reach out for help and support and offer it as well. I avidly believe that it should feel safe for everyone, myself included. So my behavior reflects that belief, I believe. When and if it did not, the administators would take care of that.

I think this thread is getting somewhat productive in a sense. I was going to beg to have it trashed at one point because I posted something I found and I felt that some people here perceived it as autobiographical when in fact I am not in the least bit sadistic and I felt like posting something that I have seen in a variety of people in my life. Plus, I am also not going to feed into drama either, which I seem to do for whatever reason because it ends up coming back on me threefold and like reesah mentioned, I also have no desire to make myself a threat at all, or else I probably wouldn't even discuss my different character because I would essentially be warning people ahead of time and that makes no sense.

reesah
02-23-08, 02:50 PM
I actually do warn people. it is much healthier for me when those I interact with keep their boundaries firm. they can practice their boundaries on me, a relatively safe person...I will tell people usually, if I see a way someone could take advantage of them. and I can learn what is acceptable to people, and how to interact emotionally, from them. it's a decent exchange I think.

Matt S.
02-23-08, 03:28 PM
I actually do warn people. it is much healthier for me when those I interact with keep their boundaries firm. they can practice their boundaries on me, a relatively safe person...I will tell people usually, if I see a way someone could take advantage of them. and I can learn what is acceptable to people, and how to interact emotionally, from them. it's a decent exchange I think.

Of course, I think it is respectful, which is why I choose to do that here. I don't intend to be harmful here and I am successful as far as I can see for the most part. In fact, I will admit that I will be the first one to PM the administrators when I see that type of thing going on with others because this is meant to be a place for support that is safe. I couldn't agree more with your post above.

I think the honesty about it is essential here.

Matt S.
02-24-08, 04:22 PM
Something I want to clarify was that any mention of any of the personality disorders and the characteristics involved were a reflection of my direct personal experience and I do not intend to make blanket statements that some members here may be offended by. If I offended anyone who may have a history of any of these personality disorders, I apologize.


People diagnosed with any personality disorders, even though they may or may not legitimately meet criteria for them, may or may not display the same characteristics and/or behaviors.

Making generalizations based on stereotypes of extreme cases of certain personality disorders is wrong and unfair to people who may be very kind and considerate people and may personalize the judgement, so again, I apologize.

meadd823
02-24-08, 11:20 PM
being "caring" and "helping" me, when you have no boundaries to protect you, is like handing an alcoholic a bottle of vodka.

being "caring" and "helping" while possessing no personal boundaries I need clarification Do you mean like some one who is co-dependent? I know co-dependents become enmeshed emotionally - and while they "suffer" the suffering in itself serves a purpose.

I can see where a co-dependent and some one with certain PD may end up in an interlocking relationship that wouldn't be very healthy for either of them.


In order to stand people near me I have to have strong personal boundaries - I present harshly and many take it as anger - I am not an angry person I am a distant one. My husband and I get along well because we are both emotionally distant, neither of us feels comfortable with people getting to close however we do not necessarily want to spend the rest of our lives alone either -


Like the tool-sober lyrics I quoted above and asked about I can see the conflict but I couldn't quiet understand it until Matt explained it to me. . . my bi-polar sister spends a decent bit of her time having to provide many similar explanations - I see emotions, I could see the conflict in the writing, but I couldn't exactly relate to it. I simply fail to connect - depersonalization disorder - secondary to sexual abuse <--- my clinical diagnosis. {whoopie}

reesah
02-25-08, 03:51 AM
meadd, yeah, like a codependent, or someone who is borderline...or even some regular folks with less serious troubles, when someone doesn't know their own boundaries it is dangerous for me to get close to them. Because they will invite me to take advantage, then get angry when I do it.

I can give a very personal example. I lived with a woman who was very much a caretaker/enabler type, kind of codependent, but if she had been living with someone "normal" it probably wouldn't have been a problem. Her boundaries were shaky to say the least.

I don't do dishes. Usually I hire a cleaner person to do them twice a week or so. But I hadn't got around to it yet, I'd been living off of disposable plates and the like for the three weeks I'd been at the apartment. Now this new roomate of mine moved in, I will call her jane for clarity. Jane hated to see me living "out of cans and styrofoam" and told me to use her plates. She thought I ate from paper plates because I had no nice dishes!

Now, this is a boundary violation in a couple ways. First of all, it's really none of her business how I eat or what...and second, instead of asking me why, she felt the need to tell me what I ought to be doing. Of course, this meant that I began to use her dishes. Now since I do not do dishes, what do you think happened next?

That's right- I let them pile up in the sink. She would ask me to do them and I would say, maybe later, after this project, in a while, etc etc...I outlasted her in tolerance of filth. She would end up doing them, banging things around, angry.

Another boundary issue- first off, they're her plates- she can say, "don't use them if you don't clean them", secondly, if she does not want to wash up after me, she should not wash up after me, and be passive-aggressive about it instead of talking to me and stating the problem.

This went on for two months. I use dishes, she is the housecleaning fairy. I began leaving messes around the house. More than my usual clutter. She would clean it up. She never once approached me and told me to stop, didn't tell me no, had no boundaries...I think she just felt she HAD to clean up after me.

Now we were just roommates. I ended up moving out a few months later for other reasons, I actually joked at the time about "leaving my cleaning lady behind"...

If I would do that to a roomate, I would do MORE to someone who I was in a relationship with.

Now if she had had firm boundaries, that first step, would never have happened. I would have had no way of violating her the way I did. She'd never have done a single dish. But instead of being direct and asking, "why do you use paper plates?" - answer" Because I will NEVER do dishes." her reply- "oh ok then"..........she decided to tell me what to do, then pick up the slack when I wouldn't.

I would NEVER clean someone else's mess. At most I would throw away their dishes, or something...never would I clean up after them like that. More aptly- I would never pay someone's rent! Why? IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, and taking on someone else's problems is a boundary I have. I won't do it. If she had had firm boundaries, she wouldn't have been taken advantage of.

Your strong boundaries and your own self-knowledge keep you safer than anything else.



Have you ever heard that tool song? It's a good one.

reesah
02-25-08, 03:55 AM
to clarify- I knew she was angry about it. But I don't care if people are angry at me, or sad...it doesn't matter. If they do not nip things in the bud, if they don't appraoch me and lay their boundaries down and live up to it...I will walk all over them.

A line in the sand is only as valid as the gunslinger on the other side, enforcing it.

Matt S.
02-25-08, 07:22 AM
re: #44

Nicely put, sounds familiar too. I buy a lot of paper plates and things because I both like clean dishes and don't like to do them.

People really do that too. The distinction that I have noticed is that the 'nice' ones versus either the codependent or the borderline will establish a boundary about it sooner most of the time. The codependent is also fully aware of the fact that there is something wrong with both sides of the picture. The problems I have had with the borderlines I have dealt with are the facts that in a lot of ways they are similar to sociopaths, in fact the best liar I have ever met had BPD, but they have exaggerated emotions and the black and white thinking effects the ability to accept any responsibility on their part.

In any case, I understand and appreciate the distinction and also wanted to add that what you describe up there with the dishes may be an ADHD related thing, it is hard to tell.

reesah
02-25-08, 11:39 AM
Not doing dishes and letting someone else take responsibility is maybe an ADD thing. Not caring how they feel about it, and hoping they don't ever stand up to me or change anything, finding it kind of funny how mad they get and joking to their face about their frustration...that's the aspd talking.

Matt S.
02-25-08, 01:32 PM
Not doing dishes and letting someone else take responsibility is maybe an ADD thing. Not caring how they feel about it, and hoping they don't ever stand up to me or change anything, finding it kind of funny how mad they get and joking to their face about their frustration...that's the aspd talking.

Oh yeah definitely, I agree.

reesah
02-25-08, 02:08 PM
to relate it to the orignal thread topic, if I'd forced her to do the dishes against her expressed wish, or purposely made more and worse dishes just to watch her clean, thatd be sadistic.

but I never went out of my way to hurt her, never got anything dirtier than I wouldve otherwise. didn't torture...just took advantage.