I searched around and found a thread on this forum in which member Bipolarruledout wrote the following. It was in response to someone's "irritable, moody, and tired" dextroamphetamine come-downs:
"It sounds a little like come down effects. In any event you might try suplamenting with DLPA (500mg or so) & B Complex either once or twice per day on an emply stomic either an hour before or after your dex dose. It's worked wonders for me and I tolerate dex much better... it's like a night and day differance."
Well, I've been trying this for about a day and a half and, knock on wood, I hope it's not placebo but I think I see a difference. DLPA stands for dextro-levo-phenylalanine, but I was only able to find l-phenylalanine at my local shop. Does anyone else have experience with this? Is it okay to do this long-term?

With the other amino acids (5-HTP for example), it's important to only take it until it works, and then to stop taking it as long as the symptoms don't return.

I might add that I was finding myself depressed after about two weeks of using Dexedrine, and the Phenylalanine has helped me to feel much better. I wonder if this is a sustainable thing to do, or if perhaps Wellbutrin would better regulate my neurochemicals so that the Phenylalanine is not necessary. I will discuss this with my doctor tomorrow.

I've heard terrible things about Wellbutrin. Anyway, I first discovered Phenylalanine not meaning to. It was part of an energy drink and really boosted my mood and helped me concentrate. Just stop using it when you notice an improvement or else it stops working in my experiences.

Thanks for the tip, Selby!
Actually, the Wellbutrin is working out okay for me. However, I am only on day four at 75mg IR once per day. I'm also going at it with the help of an anxiolytic. The side effects are kind of annoying though; my sleep was shallow last night, I have a sore throat and get dry-mouth or maybe even dehydrated. On the flip-side, I think it might help with the depressing Dexedrine come-downs.

Any updates on phenylalanie???

D,L-Phenylalanine (Racemic) is a neurotransmitter precursor processed into Dopamine and Phenethylamine (PEA) which has mood lifting properties. Partially due to urban legend and unscientific exageration that PEA was the molecule of love and explained chocolate addictions and cravings.

The nitty gritty is that it gets metabolized so quickly by monoamine oxidase A enzymes that it pretty much has no real effect.

anything you'd feel would likely be placebo.

In many anecdotal reports I've read in neurotropic forums it was explored as an OTC neurotropic for mood enhancing and cognitive purposes but found to only be effective after taking a MAO Type A inhibitor.. Usually a selective type like Selegiline.
and in those cases they felt a quick pick me up followed by a horrible crash.
which is pharmacologically characteristic of an abusable narcotic.

There was even one documented case of someone becoming dependent/addicted to abusing it in this fashion. (They used phenethylamine HCL instead of the racemic D,L precursor)

substitued phenethylamines (phenethylamine with more functional groups or different branches/chains) include many of the ADD medications.

Phenethylamine by itself is clinically useless for any purposes of easing the amphetamine crash.

Really the only OTC option for your brain is Magnesium before you sleep and to take a good multivitamin, good quality fish oil supplement (Omega 3/6's are great) and a good b-complex.

5-HTP / Melatonin may help the anxiety a bit too.


Otherwise ask your doctor, talk to him about your concerns if you could try an alternative add treatment. preferably one with a better curve in time released bioavailability. (Addy XR, Vyvanse, Daytrana, Dex Spansules all come to mind.)

cuz you likely don't want to go the way of using another pharma to come down off of your treatment.
benzos while a good anxiolytic. It is easy to develop dependence on it and they typically don't allow for good quality sleep.
also they tend to mess with your short-term memory.

//not a doctor, just a bio/neuro student.

variance: that was an awesome post. Thanks.

I only did this phenylalanine regimen for about one to two weeks and it seemed to help then, so that could very well have been the ever-powerful placebo effect.

Wellbutrin has drastically improved the Dex comedowns, but it comes with its own mixed bag of side effects. The jury is still out on whether it is a successful treatment for me.

Give it time. I dropped my dose of WB 50 mgs and noticed a big difference after six weeks. It takes about that time for the full effect to be felt. Each time I increased the dose 150 mgs I felt a big difference in concentration and motivation.

The side effects do go away after a couple of months.

Phenylalanine is bad news in some people. (e.g. PKU)

Isn't its cousin Aspartame a known neurotoxin?

That's false. urban legend precipitated by ignorant individuals dabbling in homeopathic/naturopathic medicine.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp
Is Aspartame Safe? (http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/%7Edms/qa-adf9.html) (FDA):
To date, FDA has not determined any consistent pattern of symptoms that can be attributed to the use of aspartame, nor is the agency aware of any recent studies that clearly show safety problems.
Aspartame and the Internet (http://www.aspartame.net/rumors/Aspartame_and_the_Internet.asp) (The Lancet):
Our research revealed over 6000 web sites that mention aspartame, with many hundreds alleging aspartame to be the cause of multiple sclerosis, lupus erythematosis, Gulf War Syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, brain tumours, and diabetes mellitus, among many others. Virtually all of the information offered is anecdotal, from anonymous sources and is scientifically implausible.
ACSH Debunks Internet Health Hoax (http://www.acsh.org/healthissues/newsID.265/healthissue_detail.asp) (American Council on Science and Health):
Health scare artists have found a whole new medium for terrorizing the public <nobr>— the</nobr> Internet. Individuals in search of accurate health information may literally become caught in the Web, where health hoaxes and urban medical myths run rampant. The health scare messages are always the same <nobr>— whatever</nobr> it is, it will make you sick.
Beware The E-Mail Hoax: The Evils Of Nutrasweet (Aspartame) (http://web.archive.org/web/20040205093914/http://www.healthcentral.com/DrDean/DeanFullTextTopics.cfm?ID=8134) (Dr. Dean Edell):
A highly inaccurate "chain letter" is being circulated via e-mail warning the reader of the health dangers of aspartame (Nutrasweet) diet drinks.

There is so much scientific untruth in it, it’s scary. Be careful, because others know how to manipulate you by this. Just because something is beyond your comprehension doesn’t mean it is scientific.
FDA Statement on Aspartame (http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00772.html) (FDA):
Analysis of the National Cancer Institute's public data base on cancer incidence in the United States <nobr>— the</nobr> SEER Program <nobr>— does</nobr> not support an association between the use of aspartame and increased incidence of brain tumors.
Study Reaffirms Safety of Aspartame (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/tt/1998/sep16/aspartame.html) (MIT News):
Even daily large doses of the high-intensity sweetener aspartame, also known as NutraSweet, had no adverse effect on study subjects' health and well-being, a visiting scientist at MIT reported in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition last week.

"We conclude that aspartame is safe for the general population," said Paul A. Spiers, visiting scientist in the Clinical Research Center (CRC).
A Web of Deceit (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,990167,00.html) (TIME magazine):
A widely disseminated e-mail by a "Nancy Markle" links aspartame to Alzheimer's, birth defects, brain cancer, diabetes, Gulf War syndrome, lupus, multiple sclerosis and seizures. Right away, the long list warrants skepticism. Just as no single chemical cure


and secondly just because something is structurally related doesn't always indicate it's a neurotoxin or whether it can even cross the blood brain barrier effectively.


furthermore,

Aspratatic Acid is one of the basic 20 amino acids that make up proteins.

The other 19 are, in no particular order.

Structures and symbols of the 20 amino acids which are directly encoded for protein synthesis by the standard genetic code
<table class="gallery" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/L-alanine-skeletal.png/120px-L-alanine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-alanine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Alanine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alanine)
(Ala / A)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/L-arginine-skeletal-%28tall%29.png/71px-L-arginine-skeletal-%28tall%29.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-arginine-skeletal-%28tall%29.png)

<small>L</small>-Arginine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arginine)
(Arg / R)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/L-asparagine-skeletal.png/102px-L-asparagine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-asparagine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Asparagine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asparagine)
(Asn / N)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/L-aspartic-acid-skeletal.png/102px-L-aspartic-acid-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-aspartic-acid-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Aspartic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartic_acid)
(Asp / D)


</td> </tr> <tr> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/L-cysteine-skeletal.png/118px-L-cysteine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-cysteine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Cysteine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine)
(Cys / C)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/L-glutamic-acid-skeletal.png/120px-L-glutamic-acid-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-glutamic-acid-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Glutamic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid)
(Glu / E)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/L-glutamine-skeletal.png/120px-L-glutamine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-glutamine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Glutamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine)
(Gln / Q)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Glycine-skeletal.png/120px-Glycine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Glycine-skeletal.png)

Glycine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine)
(Gly / G)


</td> </tr> <tr> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/L-histidine-skeletal.png/101px-L-histidine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-histidine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Histidine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histidine)
(His / H)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/L-isoleucine-skeletal.png/113px-L-isoleucine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-isoleucine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Isoleucine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoleucine)
(Ile / I)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/L-leucine-skeletal.png/113px-L-leucine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-leucine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Leucine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucine)
(Leu / L)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/L-lysine-skeletal.png/120px-L-lysine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-lysine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Lysine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysine)
(Lys / K)


</td> </tr> <tr> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/L-methionine-skeletal.png/120px-L-methionine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-methionine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Methionine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methionine)
(Met / M)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/L-phenylalanine-skeletal.png/118px-L-phenylalanine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-phenylalanine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Phenylalanine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylalanine)
(Phe / F)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/L-proline-skeletal.png/120px-L-proline-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-proline-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Proline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proline)
(Pro / P)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/L-serine-skeletal.png/120px-L-serine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-serine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Serine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serine)
(Ser / S)


</td> </tr> <tr> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/L-threonine-skeletal.png/120px-L-threonine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-threonine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Threonine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threonine)
(Thr / T)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/L-tryptophan-skeletal.png/111px-L-tryptophan-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-tryptophan-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Tryptophan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan)
(Trp / W)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/L-tyrosine-skeletal.png/120px-L-tyrosine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-tyrosine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Tyrosine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine)
(Tyr / Y)


</td> <td> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/L-valine-skeletal.png/120px-L-valine-skeletal.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L-valine-skeletal.png)

<small>L</small>-Valine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valine)
(Val / V)


</td></tr></tbody></table>

--
PKU certainly *isn't* 'false'.

If it is, then why do neonatal units test for it then? :)

Um, b/c phenylalanine overload is damaging to brain tissue. :S

--

Too much of anything "natural" can be toxic. Too much salt, too much water, too much of an amino acid, too much hemlock, etc...

Some genetic diseases cause damage b/c of imbalanced amino acids. (e.g. impaired homeostasis)

Who KNOWS that they are EVEN GIVING dosing in the right amounts?

Self-medication can be seriously deadly.

I'd really recommend against 'reading' one's own symptoms and self-treating.


What is that expression about one who lawyers for himself (or, in this case, one who treats himself], as 'having a fool for a client'?

--
PKU certainly *isn't* 'false'.

If it is, then why do neonatal units test for it then? :)

Um, b/c phenylalanine overload is damaging to brain tissue. :S

--

Too much of anything "natural" can be toxic. Too much salt, too much water, too much of an amino acid, too much hemlock, etc...

Some genetic diseases cause damage b/c of imbalanced amino acids. (e.g. impaired homeostasis)

Who KNOWS that they are EVEN GIVING dosing in the right amounts?

Self-medication can be seriously deadly.

I'd really recommend against 'reading' one's own symptoms and self-treating.


What is that expression about one who lawyers for himself (or, in this case, one who treats himself], as 'having a fool for a client'?

I was not referring to PKU. Perhaps I should have made that clear.

I was referring to your suggestion that Asparate is neurotoxic and your attempt to link it to Phenylalanine by family.

and nothing you said supports your argument that Aspartate is neurotoxic.

You just made a bunch of generalizations concluding nothing.
I'm not attacking you. I was just trying to attack an urban legend. "Asparate is neurotoxic".

as for your last blurb.

Misdiagnosing from doctors can be very deadly as well.
contrary to popular opinion. there is no excuse for ignorance.
patient or doctor side.

The best patient is an educated patient who can ask questions.
if a doctor is threatened by your questions or is uncomfortable and not honest about it.
find another doctor.
a good doctor will welcome your questions, and not knowing the answer won't hurt his pride.
if he doesn't know the answer to it. he has the base knowledge and the resources to find out in quick order.


and Doctors even though they get a absurd amount of education, do not know it all. They cannot know every single facet of your condition. They can only determine what you have from the limited diagnostic protocols they have available along with what YOU tell them.

Even then, when it comes to medications. not every primary care physician is 100% updated on everything. They function on what they hear other doctors are using via journals and pharma marketing. The small little details of the actual mechanisms involving the pharmacology of a substance falls to neuropharmacologists, neuroscientists and the like who do the unglorious tedious lab work.

I use the L-P, Alltho I just need the l-phenylalanine. I take 500mg/day

So it would be a waste of time to read these?

http://www.feingold.org/pg-research.html

What do you mean, Imnapple?

Though the original intent of B-vitamin was to increase absorption of phenylalanine, it still might be a good idea to take a b-vitamin complex. The following article is written by someone in the somewhat sketchy "supplementation scene," and it may be debatable if supplements are worth taking at all, but I find it somewhat comforting to take some supplements.

As noted earlier, the brain must use 15-20% of the body's total ATP energy supply. Neurons cannot borrow this ATP from other cells - it must all be produced within the brain from the metabolism of glucose. The conversion of glucose to ATP energy occurs in 3 stages inside each neuron. The 3 interlocking phases of glucose metabolism are glycolysis, the Kreb's or citric acid cycle, and the electron transport chain. The Kreb's cycle and transport chain both occur inside the mitochondria, the tiny "power plants" of the cell, and produce most of the cell's ATP. Various enzymes gradually convert glucose to ATP. These enzymes require an activating partner, a "coenzyme" to function properly. The coenzymes are all active forms of various B vitamins. The vitamins used in the 3 interlocking ATP cycles are vitamins B1 (thiamin), B2 (riboflavin), B3 (niacinamide), B5 (pantothenate), biotin, and the B-vitamin-like substance alpha-lipoic acid, as well as coenzyme Q10. Other B vitamins, such as B6 (pyridoxine), B12 (cobalamin) and folic acid are used to transform various amino acids into forms that allow small quantities of them to be "burned" in the Kreb's cycle. (49)

So it would be a waste of time to read these?

http://www.feingold.org/pg-research.html

If you're pro phenylalanine supplemenation, I have to agree with variance; monoamine oxidase enzymes are likely to break down exogenous phenylalanine, dopamine and noradrenaline before they can reach the brain. Even if you take a large enough dose for some not to be broken down, the brain won't automatically convert it to catecholamines (dopamine/noradrenaline/adrenaline).

I believe this is one of the reasons why amphetamine lasts so long - it is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor.

Only l-phenylalanine gets converted to l-tyrosine (the precursor to catecholamines). A small amount of dextro gets converted to laevo.

Phenylalanine is also competitive with other amino acids in the brain. If consumed excessively in children, it causes mental retardation.

What do you mean, Imnapple?
Sorry, flatlinez, I should have tested the link I posted. The link leads to several examples of abstracts like this one:

Administration of aspartame potentiates pentylenetetrazole- and fluorothyl-induced seizures in mice. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3352866&dopt=Abstract) Pinto JM, Maher TJ. Neuropharmacology 1988 Jan;27(1):51-5" ... Doses of aspartame were used which increased phenylalanine more than tyrosine in brain, as occurs in humans after the consumption of any dose of aspartame. Pretreatment with aspartame significantly increased the percentage of animals convulsing after administration of pentylenetetrazole and significantly lowered the CD50 for this convulsant. ... The seizure-promoting effect of aspartame could be demonstrated 30, 60 or 120 min after the 1000 mg/kg dose. The seizures induced by either convulsant were potentiated by equimolar amounts of phenylalanine, a major endogenous metabolite of aspartame, while the other metabolites, aspartic acid and methanol, were without effect. ..."